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  1. #1
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    New Airborne Model

    Saw this in another thread. The two bikes being compared were the Trek Stache 7 and the goblin. Anyone hear anything more about it? I'm interested....



    For those who want a slacker, beefier version of the Goblin with a short rear end, 120mm Revelation fork, big tire clearance, and 142x12 rear axle: it is coming soon. We've been riding protos of them locally all year and are about ready to go to production. This will be in addition to the current Goblin.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by swengo86 View Post
    Saw this in another thread. The two bikes being compared were the Trek Stache 7 and the goblin. Anyone hear anything more about it? I'm interested....



    For those who want a slacker, beefier version of the Goblin with a short rear end, 120mm Revelation fork, big tire clearance, and 142x12 rear axle: it is coming soon. We've been riding protos of them locally all year and are about ready to go to production. This will be in addition to the current Goblin.
    We should be rolling this one out soon. Production is set to start in the next 6-8 weeks. Think of it as a trail-esque Goblin hardtail: Slacker geo, super short rear end, lots of mud clearance, beefier tubes, direct mount FD, 142x12 rear end, revelation with a maxle front, x7/x9 mix with a type 2 RD, Charger wheels with Ardent 2.4's, and a few other interesting touches.

    This model will compliment the Goblin and will be for those who are looking at bikes like the Stache, Mason, etc.

    More details will be released later.

    Jeremy
    Please Note: I no longer work for Airborne. If you have an Airborne question or problem please contact them directly.

  3. #3
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    Estimated price please?

  4. #4
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    Sounds like a pretty sweet spec. Seems like all the big brands are jumping onto this trail/AM hardtail 29er trend....

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimension View Post
    Estimated price please?
    More details will be released later.
    Please Note: I no longer work for Airborne. If you have an Airborne question or problem please contact them directly.

  6. #6
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    Re: New Airborne Model

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyFlyer View Post
    We should be rolling this one out soon. Production is set to start in the next 6-8 weeks. Think of it as a trail-esque Goblin hardtail: Slacker geo, super short rear end, lots of mud clearance, beefier tubes, direct mount FD, 142x12 rear end, revelation with a maxle front, x7/x9 mix with a type 2 RD, Charger wheels with Ardent 2.4's, and a few other interesting touches.

    This model will compliment the Goblin and will be for those who are looking at bikes like the Stache, Mason, etc.

    More details will be released later.

    Jeremy
    Are you really trying to make me buy 3 airbornes with in a year!?!?

    Can't wait. This one is on my list! Any chace you can slip us a name or color ideas you guys have?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedz0r View Post
    Can't wait. This one is on my list! Any chace you can slip us a name or color ideas you guys have?
    Hopefully it's something bright that makes a statement like the original green color on the goblin!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by swengo86 View Post
    Hopefully it's something bright that makes a statement like the original green color on the goblin!
    Something like Mexico Blue maybe?

    Jeremy
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Airborne Model-mexico-blau.jpg  

    Please Note: I no longer work for Airborne. If you have an Airborne question or problem please contact them directly.

  9. #9
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    Good Choice!

  10. #10
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    You like Porsche colours don't you. Guards Red now Mexico Blue! I guess the green goblin inspiration was GT3 RS Signal Green.

  11. #11
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    Love the blue!

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4

  12. #12
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    New Airborne Model

    Quote Originally Posted by TNBrit84 View Post
    You like Porsche colours don't you. Guards Red now Mexico Blue! I guess the green goblin inspiration was GT3 RS Signal Green.
    Well, he does own a Guards Red 944. So there's that. Lol

    Green Goblin color was inspired by a car as well. A car with a Chevy v8 and "retro" styling.

  13. #13
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    This sounds interesting. At a recent Trek Demo Days at Cuyuna, I rode the Stache back-to-back with the Fuel 29er. I liked the Stache much better. It was just a fun bike.

    The one update from Airborne I would like to see is the Hobgoblin slack up the geo a bit and mimic/copy/steal the Pivot 429 geo. Slack enough for most trail riding, steep enough to still handle XC duties quite well.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNBrit84 View Post
    You like Porsche colours don't you. Guards Red now Mexico Blue! I guess the green goblin inspiration was GT3 RS Signal Green.
    Bingo on the red!

    Jeremy
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Airborne Model-ducts_splitterb.jpg  

    Please Note: I no longer work for Airborne. If you have an Airborne question or problem please contact them directly.

  15. #15
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    Niiiiice ^

  16. #16
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    He just likes showing off his cars

    That is going to be a sick bike, another one that should fly off the shelves!
    Airborne Flight Crew

    Jerry Hazard – website

  17. #17
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    New Airborne Model-image.jpg

    Not a Porsche but still a very cool color....oh and the car is pretty nice too

  18. #18
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    I'll agree with this statement 100%. While Airbornes bikes are great value, for me since the switch to slacker than "normal" 29er geo I just don't understand why anyone besides racers would use that old school, steep, geo. Very curious as to the price point on this and for the frame only. Jeremy does like to tease a lot and he knows that it builds interest in future models doing it so far in advance.
    Quote Originally Posted by jhazard View Post
    He just likes showing off his cars

    That is going to be a sick bike, another one that should fly off the shelves!
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    While Airbornes bikes are great value, for me since the switch to slacker than "normal" 29er geo I just don't understand why anyone besides racers would use that old school, steep, geo.
    This is a matter of your opinion.

    There are many people who like the type of geo we use, and there are several other companies who have sold thousands of bikes with this sort of geometry and still do.

    My personal opinion is that I like XC-type geometry and it works great for me. Do I also like the more slacked-out geo of our coming AM HT 29er? Yes I do, for certain things. But I don't like it for regular XC style riding.

    The vast majority of folks who purchase bikes from us buy them for riding XC-style trails, and we make geometry that works great for that.

    I'm trying carefully to not come acrossed in a bad way here, but you've stated your opinion on this in many other threads and let's say that its been put out there and we've heard you. I appreciate the interest and your contribution, but I would ask that you understand that your opinion is just that; your opinion. If you don't like what we are doing I understand.

    Thanks,

    Jeremy
    Please Note: I no longer work for Airborne. If you have an Airborne question or problem please contact them directly.

  20. #20
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    Not taking it the wrong way, but I believe you are taking mine the wrong way. Never said you were producing a bad product, just stating that since I moved from the old school thought process that 29ers need to have steeper angles to handle as nimbly or be as much fun as 26ers, my riding has improved and I have way more fun and despite what loads say, have no issues riding the slacker angles on XC stuff. I can still ride my rigid Monkey with those old school numbers and it's quite a bit of fun, but it gets so much better when I put on a 120mm fork and slack it out, and NO XC performance is not compromised.

    That's MY opinion and thankfully I'm allowed to express it just as much as you are allowed to express yours, that's the beauty of an open consumer forum.

    I challenge you to send out one or a few of these new bad boys to actual owners of your bread and butter XC geo bikes like the Goblin or Seeker and let them ride them and then let them give honest feedback here. I highly doubt any would say they prefer the XC geo of say the Goblin over this new, more relaxed geo, if in fact that is what it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyFlyer View Post
    This is a matter of your opinion.

    There are many people who like the type of geo we use, and there are several other companies who have sold thousands of bikes with this sort of geometry and still do.

    My personal opinion is that I like XC-type geometry and it works great for me. Do I also like the more slacked-out geo of our coming AM HT 29er? Yes I do, for certain things. But I don't like it for regular XC style riding.

    The vast majority of folks who purchase bikes from us buy them for riding XC-style trails, and we make geometry that works great for that.

    I'm trying carefully to not come acrossed in a bad way here, but you've stated your opinion on this in many other threads and let's say that its been put out there and we've heard you. I appreciate the interest and your contribution, but I would ask that you understand that your opinion is just that; your opinion. If you don't like what we are doing I understand.

    Thanks,

    Jeremy
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by swengo86 View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Not a Porsche but still a very cool color....oh and the car is pretty nice too
    I LOVE that color!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Not taking it the wrong way, but I believe you are taking mine the wrong way. Never said you were producing a bad product, just stating that since I moved from the old school thought process that 29ers need to have steeper angles to handle as nimbly or be as much fun as 26ers, my riding has improved and I have way more fun and despite what loads say, have no issues riding the slacker angles on XC stuff. I can still ride my rigid Monkey with those old school numbers and it's quite a bit of fun, but it gets so much better when I put on a 120mm fork and slack it out, and NO XC performance is not compromised.

    That's MY opinion and thankfully I'm allowed to express it just as much as you are allowed to express yours, that's the beauty of an open consumer forum.

    I challenge you to send out one or a few of these new bad boys to actual owners of your bread and butter XC geo bikes like the Goblin or Seeker and let them ride them and then let them give honest feedback here. I highly doubt any would say they prefer the XC geo of say the Goblin over this new, more relaxed geo, if in fact that is what it is.
    I'll go along with this. It sounds like this new bike is what I was looking for from Airborne 6 months ago. Since Airborne didn't have a slack geo trail/AM 29er I decided to build a Yelli instead. I had every intention of keeping my upgraded Guardian at the time, but it didn't take long to come to the realization that the YS made the Guardian, which I have since sold, redundant. It did everything the Guardian did only better, at least from my perspective. I'm not a racer, I ride for my own entertainment and fitness, and the YS or any other slack, short stay 29er is in my opinion more fun than the more traditional XC geometry.
    None of this to take away from what Airborne is doing or their business decisions, for the most part I like what you are doing. I currently still have a Wingman and my wife still rides a Skyhawk. Jeremy has stated here before that XC bikes are the majority of the mountain bike market, so that is their primary focus. Which is understandable. What I don't quite understand is why Airborne seems to go on the defensive when customers suggest that they would like to see more Trail/AM/DH/FR/whatever bikes. In another thread I posed the question, "What is Airborne working on for the future? It seems that the current lineup is almost entirely XC bikes." And I got a similar defensive type of response and an explanation as to how XC is the majority of the market, etc.
    I think the more appropriate response would have been "Thanks for being interested in buying your bikes from us. We are working on some new things we hope will interest you, but I can't provide details now." I have never said there is anything wrong with your current XC bike lineup, but is not ideal for me or the trails that I ride. I see no reason to get defensive about lyNx previous post, the inclusions of: "for me" and "I don't understand" already made it pretty clear that these were his opinions, and not statement of inarguable fact. He stated that your XC geometry is not for him and but that he is interested in this new bike. Sounds like a positive thing to me; you are attracting customers that you couldn't attract before.

    I hope this will be taken as constructive criticism, as it is intended.
    You offer quality products, a great value and outstanding service. I am excited to see more new non-XC products from Airborne.

  23. #23
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    Thanks~

    Jeremy
    Please Note: I no longer work for Airborne. If you have an Airborne question or problem please contact them directly.

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    Yea...I thought it was pretty cool looking.

    Colors like that always turn heads on the trail.

  25. #25
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    I've been thinking I wanted to try a slacker geo on my next bike. I may give the new one a try next year.

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    I saw on the website that the hobgoblin frame only is actually a similar color...looks like the guys at airborne are already aware it looks pretty sweet!

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    It's funny to hear all of the talk about how the Goblin geometry isn't slack.

    Makes me realize how far things have come over the years. My first ride on the Seeker felt like the DH bikes of the late 90's.

  28. #28
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    Yeah, I guess But that's like saying it's funny to hear a FORD Geo isn't fast compared to a ModelT ford or something along those lines Bikes have come relatively about that far in that little space of time as the ModelT to a modern car. Technology and understanding improve the more we do stuff, of course a low end whatever from now, is prob going be as good as the best thing from way back when.
    Quote Originally Posted by skyphix View Post
    It's funny to hear all of the talk about how the Goblin geometry isn't slack.

    Makes me realize how far things have come over the years. My first ride on the Seeker felt like the DH bikes of the late 90's.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Yeah, I guess But that's like saying it's funny to hear a FORD Geo isn't fast compared to a ModelT ford or something along those lines Bikes have come relatively about that far in that little space of time as the ModelT to a modern car. Technology and understanding improve the more we do stuff, of course a low end whatever from now, is prob going be as good as the best thing from way back when.

    I just meant to say I was living in a state of ignorance as to how much things have changed (I'm coming from road/cyclocross bikes and a '98 Trek 7000). I figured they had changed, but how much is really shocking to me. Maybe its just the realization that 15 years is a long time.

    Back on topic, I am excited to see what this new AM HT is going to look like.

  30. #30
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    I get you man, totally, even in the last 9 years since I started biking things have changed a lot. What I was saying is in relation to cars the last 15-20 years for bikes is like 40-50 years ago for cars, things have just exploded in terms of technology for us.
    Quote Originally Posted by skyphix View Post
    I just meant to say I was living in a state of ignorance as to how much things have changed (I'm coming from road/cyclocross bikes and a '98 Trek 7000). I figured they had changed, but how much is really shocking to me. Maybe its just the realization that 15 years is a long time.

    Back on topic, I am excited to see what this new AM HT is going to look like.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyFlyer View Post
    We should be rolling this one out soon. Production is set to start in the next 6-8 weeks. Think of it as a trail-esque Goblin hardtail: Slacker geo, super short rear end, lots of mud clearance, beefier tubes, direct mount FD, 142x12 rear end, revelation with a maxle front, x7/x9 mix with a type 2 RD, Charger wheels with Ardent 2.4's, and a few other interesting touches.

    This model will compliment the Goblin and will be for those who are looking at bikes like the Stache, Mason, etc.

    More details will be released later.

    Jeremy
    BDF, this is terrible man! We have to wait 6-8 weeks??? How about some teaser pics? Name? Color scheme? Anything????

  32. #32
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    How about a potential price point or price points if you'll have two different spec'ed bikes?!?!

  33. #33
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    New Airborne Model

    He's posted a pic of the bike before. It's black.

  34. #34
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    More info will be released later. I won't be posting to this thread any longer, thanks.



    Jeremy
    Please Note: I no longer work for Airborne. If you have an Airborne question or problem please contact them directly.

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    No worries....it will be a long 6-8 weeks!

    Looking forward to seeing the new bike when it's out

  36. #36
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    A mountain bike for mountains. Good idea.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyKreitzer View Post
    He's posted a pic of the bike before. It's black.
    Link it bro

  38. #38
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    Sounds awesome. Can't wait to see it.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyKreitzer View Post
    He's posted a pic of the bike before. It's black.
    The pic you speak of has mysteriously disappeared!

  40. #40
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    New Airborne Model

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDocTx View Post
    The pic you speak of has mysteriously disappeared!
    I have it saved on my phone. I'm weird like that. But I have also seen it in person. It's pretty sweet!

    I'm pretty sure he took that pic down months ago though. I remember seeing that thread and the pic was missing.

  41. #41
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    To clarify, we didn't remove any photos. Many photos on MTBR were lost awhile back when there were some sort of server issues or change-over. There are lots of threads with missing photos.

    Thanks,

    Jeremy
    Please Note: I no longer work for Airborne. If you have an Airborne question or problem please contact them directly.

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    New Airborne Model

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyFlyer View Post
    To clarify, we didn't remove any photos. Many photos on MTBR were lost awhile back when there were some sort of server issues or change-over. There are lots of threads with missing photos.

    Thanks,

    Jeremy
    Got any price estimations you can tell us?

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    I've been waiting on this one for toooo lonngggg. I think I'm going crazy. Sounds like the perfect bike for me..minus the fact that its not OUT YET!

    Good work on watching the market, guys. These type of bikes have been rolling out recently with a lot of good reviews on them. I have been tempted by all of the major ones, but have been trying to hold out for an airborne model.

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    It is going to be a hard choice between this and "hopefully" airborne's upcoming all mountain FS especially since I already have the goblin. Can't wait to see what they release over the next year.

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    Me too, I already own the goblin so my next bike might be more of a slacker FS bike, or a CX bike for an "everything else" type of bike.

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    Would it be possible to slack out an existing goblin, hobgoblin, etc by putting a 120 mm fork? Or maybe an angleset head set?

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by akaHector View Post
    Would it be possible to slack out an existing goblin, hobgoblin, etc by putting a 120 mm fork? Or maybe an angleset head set?
    Yes but a bike's handling is a combo of a number of things. Changing one without doing related changes may not get you where you think. Chain stay length, fork offset and wheelbase fit in with stem length and t tube length and a couple others with small amounts making a difference.

    A Scott Scale has a slacker HT angle than a Goblin. But it also has 440 chain stays to go with the 69.5* HT angle to make that work like it does on their World Cup XC championship race bike.
    The Goblin has 71* HT angle and 450mm chain stays.

  48. #48
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    Any additional info now that it's been a few weeks and we're into October??

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyFlyer View Post
    This is a matter of your opinion.

    There are many people who like the type of geo we use, and there are several other companies who have sold thousands of bikes with this sort of geometry and still do.

    My personal opinion is that I like XC-type geometry and it works great for me.
    Me too Jeremy! I love my new Goblin!

  50. #50
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    So now I'm not just speculating thought I would post my thoughts again to this thread. Just got in an XL Goblin for a guy, built it up, changed the bar to a 750mm wide FUNN bar and 90mm stem and still while it doesn't ride horribly, after riding the likes of the Paradox and now Prime with slacked geo and shorter stays the handling of the Goblin feels so, so wrong. Seeing the bar infront of the front hub/axle is a very unsettling experience after riding the Paradox and then Prime where the bar is either in line with or slightly behind the front hub/axle.

    I HOPE that Jeremy and Airborne have a clue as to how popular this new model will be and will produce enough in the first run and scale down production on the Goblin framesets as I think they'll become not so popular except to those who don't know any better and even then if they happen to test ride one of the new slack geo, short rear end frames will want one instead of the Goblin. Honestly, slack front end with short rear is just so much more fun and confident, yet just as nimble as steep front with bus length rear - could not believe how hard it was to try and get the front wheel up on the Goblin this AM on the initial ride.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  51. #51
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    We are going to continue to build both. There are folks who like both, as witnessed by the ongoing thread on the 29er forum regarding long versus short stays.

    As I have stated before, there are lots of folks (including me) that like the geo of the Goblin. I personally have no problems getting the front wheel up on my personal Goblin, but maybe it just boils down to rider skill.


    Thanks for your input.

    Jeremy
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    I've never had a hard time lifting the front end of my goblin either and I wouldn't consider myself a badass either.

    I am looking forward to seeing the slacker goblin though.

  53. #53
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    New Airborne Model

    Gotta agree with Trevor, I rode my Goblin & Guardian pretty aggressively and the geo didn't really hider my performance. Remember, these are XC bikes, and there is a huge market for them. While I abused mine, I understand I was taking it out of its comfort zone, putting in situations for which it was not intended.

    But, I do believe having a slacker, more trail orientated option is a great idea. I'm sure they will be well received.
    Airborne Flight Crew

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  54. #54
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    Always have to take things personally, don't you Jeremy, very professional once again Curious in relation to the stock Goblin how yours is set up, bar width, stem length, wheels, etc. This is an XL I'm talking too, so saddle is further over the rear axle, bar further forward for leverage, can't imagine on a smaller size with stock bar/stem.

    Not knocking the bike, it's a fantastic value for sure and it rides great, just not as good for the avg Joe as this new one will IMHO.

    As to their are both people who like short and long stays, but like with alot of things, a lot of people like what they know and most likely have never even really tried the something different they're knocking. I was a proponent of stems for my size rider being 100mm-120mm and thought 685mm wide bars were plenty and like you I argued to that effect, then I decided to experiment and try a wider bar and shorter stem and found out what others had been trying to tell me for a long time - I got the same fit, but much more confident handling and a much more open chest and more leverage and control of the bar and things knocking me off line.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyFlyer View Post
    We are going to continue to build both. There are folks who like both, as witnessed by the ongoing thread on the 29er forum regarding long versus short stays.

    As I have stated before, there are lots of folks (including me) that like the geo of the Goblin. I personally have no problems getting the front wheel up on my personal Goblin, but maybe it just boils down to rider skill.


    Thanks for your input.

    Jeremy
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  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Always have to take things personally, don't you Jeremy, very professional once again
    I think you mis-interpreted what I said. There's nothing unprofessional in my response at all. You may want to re-read it again.

    Look, I know you like to argue with people. I've watched it here, on the 29er forum, and also on the SS forum. I'm not going to engage you.

    This is the last response I will make to you. I can't keep you from posting here; it's a free forum and all input is welcome. But if you are here just to argue, you aren't going to get it back from me.

    Regards,

    Jeremy
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    Re: New Airborne Model

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyFlyer View Post
    I think you mis-interpreted what I said. There's nothing unprofessional in my response at all. You may want to re-read it again.

    Look, I know you like to argue with people. I've watched it here, on the 29er forum, and also on the SS forum. I'm not going to engage you.

    This is the last response I will make to you. I can't keep you from posting here; it's a free forum and all input is welcome. But if you are here just to argue, you aren't going to get it back from me.

    Regards,

    Jeremy
    I agree. lynx is very combative and not very professional. I would think twice booking a mtb trip with him because of his online presence.
    Jeremy on the other hand is helpful and honest in his responses and would not hesitate buying another airborne (I want them all!!!) product.

  57. #57
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    Meeee0wwww! The scrappy knowitall feline strikes again. BDF, click over in your settings and add to ignore list right meow. And don't worry, he's not going to affect your sales. Most see right through his BS.

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    Re: New Airborne Model

    I have a 90mm stem and 680mm flat bars on my 18" goblin. Bar height is about equal with the seat, and I have zero problems lifting the front end over obstacles. And i wouldn't consider myself an expert rider by any means. Perhaps you are blaming the goblin geometry for your lack of riding skills...

    Also, am I the only who gets really annoyed when people INSIST that you NEED wide bars? Apparently where these people ride, there are no trees

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8iking VIIking View Post
    Also, am I the only who gets really annoyed when people INSIST that you NEED wide bars? Apparently where these people ride, there are no trees
    Meh, it's the current trend. Try to tell teen boys that girl jeans don't look that flattering.

    I rode wide bars for a while (800mm). Had it's advantages, especially when riding a singlespeed. But even living out in the wide open West, I still clipped trees and rocks (mostly due to lack of rider's skills). I'm not at ~700mm and find that's my sweet spot for my terrain here. If I were on the East coast, I'd surely be going shorter.

    And to answer your rhetorical question, yes, that is annoying. Not only with handlbars, but with anything else (short chainstays, FS, SS, tires, etc).

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8iking VIIking View Post
    I have a 90mm stem and 680mm flat bars on my 18" goblin. Bar height is about equal with the seat, and I have zero problems lifting the front end over obstacles. And i wouldn't consider myself an expert rider by any means. Perhaps you are blaming the goblin geometry for your lack of riding skills...

    Also, am I the only who gets really annoyed when people INSIST that you NEED wide bars? Apparently where these people ride, there are no trees

    ...its a different kind of riding. People (well, some of them) seem to miss that even though the Goblin IS a MTB, it is one of the Cross Country type. Manuals, bunnyhops jumps, drops and all that are not really what Goblin is geared up for - and it shouldn't suffer for that. People should build/ride the right bike for the trails and style they ride. Suggesting a bike is inadequate for X when it's designed for Y is not fair.

    As for the handlebars... I'm with the trendy crowd and do appreciate the wider set up. But this is a personal reference/subjective thing. Same thing with wider tires, 1x10 vs 2x10 vs 3x10 - subjective for the most part.

    For the record, there are no shortage of trees on many of my rides, and there are some close calls from time to time. But I feel the benefits outweigh the risks. (760 on my trail bike, 787 on my AM bike).
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    ...and it's not annoying when people like you try to insinuate that only where you live could possibly have tight tree lined trails and it's impossible to ride them with bars wider than 25"? Fact is, loads of people ride wide bars and most who go to them after riding narrow bars love them and appreciate the control it gives, especially in rough, rocky terrain and it tight trees you learn to flick the bars through, but maybe that's just a skill thing that some don't have I have no issues with my 785mm wide bar

    As to the comment on the Goblin being hard to manual/wheelie, compared to my Paradox, hard as hell and that's the point I was making, if that's an unfair comparison, then hard even compared to a Trek GF "XC" bikes I've tried which have different "XC" geo than most.
    When I've let anyone ride my Paradox they're always amazed at how great it rides, how easy it is to pick up the front and how nimble, yet stable it is and I'm talking people riding 26ers or 29ers with the same boring "XC" geo most brands put forth - fact of the matter is, the closer the BB is to the rear axle, the easier it will be to pop/get the front wheel off the ground.

    Maybe when those of you who've only ridden bikes with that old school XC geo get a chance to ride something slacker with shorter stays, and maybe some more technical terrain, then you'll understand the wider bar/shorter stem and slacker geo side of things - you think that there's not a reason that despite JHazards positive comments, that he rides his Goblin & HG with 120mm> forks

    I'm betting that if AB stick to their word and produce this bike that it will be a hit AND it will strip sales away from the Goblin, if anyone gets to ride them back to back.

    Quote Originally Posted by 8iking VIIking View Post
    I have a 90mm stem and 680mm flat bars on my 18" goblin. Bar height is about equal with the seat, and I have zero problems lifting the front end over obstacles. And i wouldn't consider myself an expert rider by any means. Perhaps you are blaming the goblin geometry for your lack of riding skills...

    Also, am I the only who gets really annoyed when people INSIST that you NEED wide bars? Apparently where these people ride, there are no trees
    Quote Originally Posted by phsycle View Post
    Meh, it's the current trend. Try to tell teen boys that girl jeans don't look that flattering.

    I rode wide bars for a while (800mm). Had it's advantages, especially when riding a singlespeed. But even living out in the wide open West, I still clipped trees and rocks (mostly due to lack of rider's skills). I'm not at ~700mm and find that's my sweet spot for my terrain here. If I were on the East coast, I'd surely be going shorter.

    And to answer your rhetorical question, yes, that is annoying. Not only with handlbars, but with anything else (short chainstays, FS, SS, tires, etc).
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

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    Re: New Airborne Model

    I'd like to see you "flick" your bars through this one



    Bars pictured are 725mm. I guess I should work on my skills huh??

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    I'd say that looks doable. Slow down, turn bars to the right when entering, lean bike left, pedal on. I started with 720mm bars right away on my Guardian and eventually chopped them down to 690, felt best for me there and I still have plenty of trails I need to use the above maneuver still to get through trees like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    ...and it's not annoying when people like you try to insinuate that only where you live could possibly have tight tree lined trails and it's impossible to ride them with bars wider than 25"? Fact is, loads of people ride wide bars and most who go to them after riding narrow bars love them and appreciate the control it gives, especially in rough, rocky terrain and it tight trees you learn to flick the bars through, but maybe that's just a skill thing that some don't have I have no issues with my 785mm wide bar

    As to the comment on the Goblin being hard to manual/wheelie, compared to my Paradox, hard as hell and that's the point I was making, if that's an unfair comparison, then hard even compared to a Trek GF "XC" bikes I've tried which have different "XC" geo than most.
    When I've let anyone ride my Paradox they're always amazed at how great it rides, how easy it is to pick up the front and how nimble, yet stable it is and I'm talking people riding 26ers or 29ers with the same boring "XC" geo most brands put forth - fact of the matter is, the closer the BB is to the rear axle, the easier it will be to pop/get the front wheel off the ground.

    Maybe when those of you who've only ridden bikes with that old school XC geo get a chance to ride something slacker with shorter stays, and maybe some more technical terrain, then you'll understand the wider bar/shorter stem and slacker geo side of things - you think that there's not a reason that despite JHazards positive comments, that he rides his Goblin & HG with 120mm> forks

    I'm betting that if AB stick to their word and produce this bike that it will be a hit AND it will strip sales away from the Goblin, if anyone gets to ride them back to back.
    See, it's this same garbage that always makes you look like a d-bag. First, nobody cares you ride in tightly grouped trees. In fact, I don't think anyone here cares that you ride at all. Second, if the wide bars/short stem is working for you, well whooptie-doo. Have fun with that. Obviously not everyone prefers that which is why there are plenty of other sizes. Lastly, I've owned a bike with shorter stays than either of your Banshees. Currently own a slack geo/short stayed bike as well. Tried 800, 720, 685, now 710 bar. My pref is 710. That may even change as time goes on. Just like your taste will change, which at that point you'll be blabbing about whatever you're hopped up about then.

    You can give your opinion. It's your delivery that's the problem.

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    New Airborne Model

    Anyone have anything to say about Airborne bikes in this Airborne thread?
    Speculation on actually geometry numbers and spec? 120mm fork?
    Super short stays requiring a 1x drivetrain like some competitors?
    I love forums for info an learning, but good lord sometimes the back an forth burns me out!!!!!! Lol

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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    Have to be fair and admit I'm a fan of the slack geo, short chainstay stuff for technical and steep stuff. But I realize, that is not everyone's preferred terrain. For a long time, I held a personal grudge against the industry for not producing such bike at the same saturation as they do standard XC bikes. But, I realize - those bikes are not everyone's cup of tea. I think Airborne has marketed wisely, hitting the biggest segments of the riding population first - gaining traction and reputation as they evolve their line up to include more contemporary rides.

    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    As to the comment on the Goblin being hard to manual/wheelie, compared to my Paradox, hard as hell and that's the point I was making, if that's an unfair comparison, then hard even compared to a Trek GF "XC" bikes I've tried which have different "XC" geo than most.
    Unfair? No, but it's apples and oranges. The Paradox is made to accept up to a 140mm fork. That's hardly XC territory. If Treks XC geo is different from most, then its not really a benchmark...


    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    When I've let anyone ride my Paradox they're always amazed at how great it rides, how easy it is to pick up the front and how nimble, yet stable it is and I'm talking people riding 26ers or 29ers with the same boring "XC" geo most brands put forth - fact of the matter is, the closer the BB is to the rear axle, the easier it will be to pop/get the front wheel off the ground.
    The idea that "anyone that rides your Paradox is amazed by it" is nice. Are they running out to sell their current frames to replace them now? Its not really a great cross section of the bike buying population.

    "Different strokes" applies. Of course some people will appreciate the new school geo like the Paradox. Is it for everyone? Probably not.

    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Maybe when those of you who've only ridden bikes with that old school XC geo get a chance to ride something slacker with shorter stays, and maybe some more technical terrain, then you'll understand the wider bar/shorter stem and slacker geo side of things - you think that there's not a reason that despite JHazards positive comments, that he rides his Goblin & HG with 120mm> forks
    But not everybody rides super technical terrain. There's a ton of it where I like to ride, and I'd guess 10% of the riders here really appreciate it. maybe more, but not a lot...

    As for the Goblin - not exactly accurate. While I did purchase a 120 fork for my Goblin/super Guardian, It ended up keeping the Reba @ 100mm. I had an X-Fusion 120 air fork, worked great, but just didn't seem to flow well with the Goblin. (My Goblin is on loan to a friend who is in Afghanistan).

    My killer set up:


    Same bike, same fork - rockin Zippity Doo Dah, while my buddy rocks the Goblin with an XC28 fork:
    <iframe src="//player.vimeo.com/video/53204613" width="800" height="450" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe> <p><a href="http://vimeo.com/53204613">Zippity Doo Dah Trail - Fruita CO</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/jerryhazard">J Hazard</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

    Guardian, 100mm Reba fork - PBR trail:

    <iframe src="//player.vimeo.com/video/51256247" width="800" height="450" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe> <p><a href="http://vimeo.com/51256247">Pumps, Berms & Rollerz, Fruita, Colroado</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/jerryhazard">J Hazard</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

    As for my Hobgoblin It's a special case and was/is an experiment for me - it's really outside the scope of this conversation. For what its worth, I did PURCHASE a Hobgoblin for my wife, which remains in it's stock form, with some Deity pedals. She won't let me make the bars wider, or put a bigger fork on it...


    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    I'm betting that if AB stick to their word and produce this bike that it will be a hit AND it will strip sales away from the Goblin, if anyone gets to ride them back to back.
    I think the bike will be a big hit. Though I'm not sure it will strip sales from the other XC bikes. I think there's a segment of the market that Airborne hasn't hit yet. Maybe they've lost sales to that segment, because most people won't buy a bike that does not suit their needs. I think they'll make a dent in this segment, and rather that strip sales from the Goblin, I think they'll strip sales from Trek, Kona, Banshee, Ragley and the like.


    Sorry for the "epic" post
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  67. #67
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    All I'm saying is I bought the Paradox as a cheap purchase to change things up, found out it did and was fantastic pointed down, BUT, also found that the whole BS "XC" geo argument was that, that this bike also rode just as well as those old school "XC"/make it handle snappy bikes I'd had, but you don't have to constantly be on yours toes, it's a more relaxed style of riding, which to me =more fun. What I'm trying to say is there is no such thing as "XC" unless you're talking XC Race where they want those steep angles and even then, look who's winning the XC World Cup right now, a guy on a non traditional 70*< HTA bike. It's about fun and enjoyment and all I'm saying is that it is so much more of that with more relaxed geo than with steep geo.

    Quote Originally Posted by jhazard View Post
    Have to be fair and admit I'm a fan of the slack geo, short chainstay stuff for technical and steep stuff. But I realize, that is not everyone's preferred terrain. For a long time, I held a personal grudge against the industry for not producing such bike at the same saturation as they do standard XC bikes. But, I realize - those bikes are not everyone's cup of tea. I think Airborne has marketed wisely, hitting the biggest segments of the riding population first - gaining traction and reputation as they evolve their line up to include more contemporary rides.
    Don't forget, yes the Paradox is made to accept up to a 140mm fork, but can also use a 100mm fork and still has a HTA of 70*, but honestly it's a waste of time, tried it and much prefer the handling with a 120mm and you loose nothing on "XC", gain a bit of BB height and much nicer on the DHs.
    Quote Originally Posted by jhazard View Post
    Unfair? No, but it's apples and oranges. The Paradox is made to accept up to a 140mm fork. That's hardly XC territory. If Treks XC geo is different from most, then its not really a benchmark...
    Actually a lot of them did ask if I'd sell it and of course I said no as I knew they weren't willing to pay properly for it and that was the problem, who were they going to sell their new bikes to one and then two, the cost of importing the Banshee here, as it's not a cheap frame compared to when you buy a big brand bike, so while say their Raleigh, Diamondback, Trek cost say $1500 for the complete, that's almost what the Paradox frame alone would cost. One example a guy bought a nice Motobecane, got a great price, brought it by me to check a few things for him, had full XT/XTR, he hoped on the Paradox to just tool around the neighborhood and right away could not believe it and asked me if I was selling, but of course he didn't want to pay as he'd just got the killer deal on the MB.
    Quote Originally Posted by jhazard View Post
    The idea that "anyone that rides your Paradox is amazed by it" is nice. Are they running out to sell their current frames to replace them now? Its not really a great cross section of the bike buying population.
    "Different strokes" applies. Of course some people will appreciate the new school geo like the Paradox. Is it for everyone? Probably not.

    But not everybody rides super technical terrain. There's a ton of it where I like to ride, and I'd guess 10% of the riders here really appreciate it. maybe more, but not a lot...

    As for the Goblin - not exactly accurate. While I did purchase a 120 fork for my Goblin/super Guardian, It ended up keeping the Reba @ 100mm. I had an X-Fusion 120 air fork, worked great, but just didn't seem to flow well with the Goblin. (My Goblin is on loan to a friend who is in Afghanistan).

    As for my Hobgoblin It's a special case and was/is an experiment for me - it's really outside the scope of this conversation. For what its worth, I did PURCHASE a Hobgoblin for my wife, which remains in it's stock form, with some Deity pedals. She won't let me make the bars wider, or put a bigger fork on it...

    Glad we mostly agree on this point, think it's great that there will be an affordable bike now in this category with a great spec and hoping it gets the same treatment as the other bikes have and is offered in a "base" model and then the high end offering. Build quality and parts on the Goblin are impressive, and I was considering buying some to use for rentals as they're great value, but after the response I've gotten from people who are basically weekend warriors, not accustomed to riding much more than tame XC and yet come down and because of the confidence they gain from the more relaxed geo try stuff and have fun doing it and most times make it, I'll either wait for this new bike or buy a few Paradox frames to build.

    Epic posts with thought out content are great and what this site is about and I appreciate the fact that there are those who still can and do do it.
    Quote Originally Posted by jhazard View Post
    I think the bike will be a big hit. Though I'm not sure it will strip sales from the other XC bikes. I think there's a segment of the market that Airborne hasn't hit yet. Maybe they've lost sales to that segment, because most people won't buy a bike that does not suit their needs. I think they'll make a dent in this segment, and rather that strip sales from the Goblin, I think they'll strip sales from Trek, Kona, Banshee, Ragley and the like.


    Sorry for the "epic" post
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  68. #68
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    Thing is, that looks like a flat section of trail anyhow, and the trees are not directly opposite each other as your bars clearly show don't see the problem - people want to fly through these sorts of situations, and well that fine and dandy if you like narrow bars, but all you need to do is scrub some speed and follow Tuskenraiders advice I did the narrow bar thing using those excuses that things were too tight and it made that part easy, but I never progressed in anything really technical until I went up in bar width. I did the extreme and had a 23"/585mm wide bar, then went to 25"/635mm and things got better, then gave 27"/685mm a go and thought I'd found heaven, argued against anything wider until the Prime was coming, then I ordered a 750mm with the thought I'd give it a go for giggles and then cut it down, guess what, I never did, couldn't believe the control in tech, rock fest terrain or on my fav rolling, but tech trail full of tight trees and vines, so bought a 785mm for the Prime again intent to cut down and never have.
    Quote Originally Posted by tuskenraider View Post
    I'd say that looks doable. Slow down, turn bars to the right when entering, lean bike left, pedal on. I started with 720mm bars right away on my Guardian and eventually chopped them down to 690, felt best for me there and I still have plenty of trails I need to use the above maneuver still to get through trees like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by 8iking VIIking View Post
    I'd like to see you "flick" your bars through this one

    Bars pictured are 725mm. I guess I should work on my skills huh??
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  69. #69
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    Will it be designed for running barriers, getting muddy and drinking beers in the fall? Muh ha ha

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    Anyhow, I think if there were a slacker geo bike I'd be interested but my Guardian works great for the singletrack I ride. Sure, I swapped handlebars, stem, and grips but I'd do that on damn near any bike as those are fitment items and everyone is different.

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    Still waiting for pics of this new bike.

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    Bump!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmicgoop View Post
    Still waiting for pics of this new bike.
    The Pathogens are here and out... thinking that means this bike is next on the line.

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    Looking to buy a new bike and leaning heavily toward an Airborne Seeker... saw the post that there is a new bike from Airborne coming any day now so waiting before I buy. Any updates?

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by iMTBike View Post
    Looking to buy a new bike and leaning heavily toward an Airborne Seeker... saw the post that there is a new bike from Airborne coming any day now so waiting before I buy. Any updates?
    Its not in the same price range of the Seeker. When there is more info to be given out I will start a new thread, thanks.

    Jeremy
    Please Note: I no longer work for Airborne. If you have an Airborne question or problem please contact them directly.

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    Jeremy, are there plans to do a slack 'hobgoblin' to go with the slack 'goblin'?

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    Quote Originally Posted by trevor_b View Post
    Jeremy, are there plans to do a slack 'hobgoblin' to go with the slack 'goblin'?
    A slack hobgoblin would burn the $$ in my wallet

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    Re: New Airborne Model

    Quote Originally Posted by MysticRI View Post
    A slack hobgoblin would burn the $$ in my wallet
    +1 to this

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyFlyer View Post
    Its not in the same price range of the Seeker. When there is more info to be given out I will start a new thread, thanks.

    Jeremy
    Thanks for the quick response! That makes my decision easier and I'll be placing my Seeker order within then next several days.

    On a side note... I have to say, looking through this forum and the responses that you make, I'm very impressed with this type of personal service that Airborne provides. I never even considered buying a bike online (not going to tell me LBS, ha) but after considerable research over the past couple of weeks, and the reviews from riders on this site about Airborne bikes, I decided to go for it.

    I have some new single track trails in my area that are crazy fun and I'm really looking forward to the upgrade from my 2002 Giant Iguana!

  80. #80
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    Thanks so much!

    Jeremy
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    sorry wrong thread

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    No word yet? I have money burning a hole in my pocket!

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

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    I had initially heard Late Oct early Nov so I was waiting, but I recently emailed and heard that the date had been pushed to Feb.

    Can't fault Airborne, that's why they didn't officially announce it, but I'm not sure I'm ok with waiting that long. On the other hand, no one else offers a bike I want as much without going at least a couple hundred more.

    Tough decision, but if my biggest difficulty is deciding which expensive toy to buy then I definitely have first world problems.

  84. #84
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    When I have something official to announce I will, I promise!

    It is true that it has been delayed slightly, due to a few factors out of our control in regards to parts suppliers. We are now hoping we have them in here before the end of January 2014. We should have photos done and the webpage up for it before then.

    Thanks to all for your patience and interest!

    Jeremy
    Please Note: I no longer work for Airborne. If you have an Airborne question or problem please contact them directly.

  85. #85
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    Cross bike, right?
    (My monthly cross bike shout out)
    Todd

  86. #86
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    check out airbornes fb, they just posted a cover photo with a new blue hardtail in it.
    I believe this is their AM hardtail! Woo!

    LOOKS AWESOME!!!!
    Excited to see the specs.

  87. #87
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    Thank God, now I can stop checking their website every single day...it was getting a little obsessive. With that being said, I'll be ordering one of these as soon as I can

  88. #88
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    I just came here for that reason LOL

  89. #89
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    Now they are just toying with us...

  90. #90
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    Yes they are!!

  91. #91
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    Eric

  92. #92
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    ding ding ding. take my money, Airborne. Just take it.

  93. #93
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    Thank god it's a hardtail. If it was FS I would have been in REAL trouble.

  94. #94
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    Wow looks impressive, the Maxles will help stiffen things up as well.

  95. #95
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    As promised, I started a new thread on it here in the Airborne forum.

    Jeremy
    Please Note: I no longer work for Airborne. If you have an Airborne question or problem please contact them directly.

  96. #96
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    Looks awesome! Nice color selection guys...props

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