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  1. #1
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    Goblin vs Goblin XO

    Glad to find an Airborne sub forum.

    I am looking to purchase a 29er.

    I like the Goblin. I have read that many people buy the Goblin and switch out wheelset as well as bar and seat post. So i'm thinking that is easily an additional $800 dollars.

    Why not just get the Goblin XO ?

    Was PM by Big Daddy Flyer that the Black Flag Pro wheelset ( which comes on the XO) is more of a race type wheelset and he recommended Sun Ringle Charger for a guy my size, 250 pounds.

    But like i mentioned to switch out the Wheelset on the "base" Goblin would put me at what $1900 plus labor at my LBS.

    Big Daddy also mentioned that they just don't have the ability to switch out wheelsets on the XO. I understand that and am not complaining. In a perfect world it would be the Goblin XO with Charger wheelset .

    So what to do?

    I contacted Sun Ringle Tech support and asked about the Black Flag Pro for somebody my size and was advised as follows:

    "Heya Jay, we donít have a recommended rider weight as we expect you folks to be a better judge of that than us. Itís like this: there are big folks who are smooth on a bike and there are small folks that destroy parts. I have a friend whoís 275lbs but rides the Black Flags with no problem. I also have a friend whoís 165lbs who goes through a rim or two a season. The difference is in how they ride. The bigger fella is light on the pedals through high speed sections and rock gardens while my littler friend rides the same through everything- like a train. What we expect from you folks out there is to be honest about how often you find yourself replacing parts due to heavy use and abuse. We know the hubs will last, but if youíre the type of rider who jumps everything and cases half of the landings, or pushes into the pedals ripping through a rock garden you need to recognize that if you buy light weight parts, theyíll have a shorter life span under you. Itís why we donít make any silly light wheels. We make good, dependable race ready or ride ready wheels. We donít aim to be the lightest as we want our stuff to last. But we also donít aim to be the heaviest, so thatís where you being honest with you comes into play in the decision making process."

    Not much help there.


    Wow. I really think if I am going to upgrade wheelset it makes sense to get the XO Goblin assuming I won't destroy the rims!

    I have a 26 FS Jamis for rougher stuff and will use the Goblin for more cross country aerobic stuff with occasional small rock gardens.

    Any heavy riders have experience with the Black Flag Pro wheelset??

    Clearly a safe bet would be get the Goblin and live with the wheelset provided. Just weighing my options.

    Thanks for any input.

    JK

  2. #2
    Airborne Flight Crew
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    Easy. Get the XO. Buy the Chargers. Sell the Black Flags.
    Airborne Flight Crew

    Jerry Hazard Ė website

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhazard View Post
    Easy. Get the XO. Buy the Chargers. Sell the Black Flags.
    Good thought. However would I take a beating on the Black Flags? E Bay or bike forum sale? I am also not sure about compatability between the Charger and Goblin. Just a simple switch out ?

    BTW: Interested in a new Black Flag Pro wheelset?

  4. #4
    Airborne Flight Crew
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjay9051 View Post
    Good thought. However would I take a beating on the Black Flags? E Bay or bike forum sale? I am also not sure about compatability between the Charger and Goblin. Just a simple switch out ?

    BTW: Interested in a new Black Flag Pro wheelset?
    Well, you'd have to pony up a bit for the Chargers You'd probably do okay on ebay with the Black Flags, but you probably wouldn't get retail. Close maybe, and you never how crazy people can get if they reeeaaallly want something.

    As for the Black Flags, sorry, I'm in the market for Azonic Outlaws. I'm sorta hard on wheels...
    Airborne Flight Crew

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  5. #5
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    I'll trade you the BF pros and tires for the WTB wheel set and geax aka tires from my Goblin? They are brand new. Being in MI I haven't had a chance to ride my new bike yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    I'll trade you the BF pros and tires for the WTB wheel set and geax aka tires from my Goblin? They are brand new. Being in MI I haven't had a chance to ride my new bike yet.
    Don't think so, but thanks for the offer

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  8. #8
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    Goblin vs Goblin XO

    I say get the Goblin XO.

    I am in the boat of upgrading my green Goblin (granted I got a good deal on it because it was a used demo bike.) I just put Black Flag Pro wheels on it a few days ago but haven't had a chance to get out on the trail. But they felt fine under my 245 lbs on a spin around the block.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyKreitzer View Post
    I say get the Goblin XO.

    I am in the boat of upgrading my green Goblin (granted I got a good deal on it because it was a used demo bike.) I just put Black Flag Pro wheels on it a few days ago but haven't had a chance to get out on the trail. But they felt fine under my 245 lbs on a spin around the block.
    I also think on top of that the XO is a better deal. It would cost more to upgrade the normal to the same part level as the XO so you are also saving in the long run.

  10. #10
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    Goblin vs Goblin XO

    Quote Originally Posted by sfb12 View Post
    I also think on top of that the XO is a better deal. It would cost more to upgrade the normal to the same part level as the XO so you are also saving in the long run.
    Right. You have to factor in better components all around. Shifters, derailleurs, crank, cockpit bits, brakes, wheels. All of that adds up pretty quickly if you are upgrading. Buying the bike that's built with better components is usually the way to go if you can afford it.

  11. #11
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    At your weight I would look for an AM type wheel.. I see great results w/ Loaded Signature AMXC wheelset.. for $600. Look around for some good deals.

    I think the XO is a great step up.. but I really don't see the huge advantage of the XO.. IIRC the weight difference between x7 to XO is like 280grams (Less than 1lb). Price diff is like $500. I can't see the advantage there. A lighter stronger wheel set will make a bigger difference than light shifters/crank.

    If I was you I would go Goblin and get a nice wheelset.
    Sun Ringle Charger Pro
    Loaded AMXC
    Easton Havocs

  12. #12
    TXTony
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    I have both the Black Flags that I am running on my Goblin and the Charger Pros that I am running on another bike. I have been running the Chargers for a few seasons on my all mountain rig and they have been bomb proof. If I used my Goblin for anything else than xc stuff I would have skipped the Black Flags and purchased something else.

    XO stuff is great. Have it on my 26 carbon hard tail. But the X7 stuff on my Goblin works great and so far I have not seen any reason to swap it out. I guess if you wanting to keep the weight down on the bike then it is something to consider. I do dig the looks of the XO Goblin. I guess in the end it comes down to what you prefer and can afford.

    After years of messing with drive trains and different set ups I have found I prefer the X9 stuff and as the X7 stuff wears out on my Goblin I will replace it with X9. Works great and is a little more budget friendly. But that is a personal preference.

    I think in your case the wheels are going to be the biggest and best upgrade for you.

  13. #13
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    Hey JK,

    Sorry I couldn't get back to you yesterday, I was in a meeting all afternoon. Instead of answering your PM I'll move the discussion to this thread.

    OK, what I told you about the Black Flag Pros versus Charger (expert or pro) is solely based on your weight you gave and the desire for a stronger wheelset. In my own experience, I have been riding on Black Flag Pro's now for a year or so and I am also a clyde. I love them and have had no problems, but I tend to "ride light". That means that I pick good lines and try to "flow like water" on the trail (a phrase my old cycling coach taught me long ago).

    Its tough making a wheel recommendation for someone that I don't have firsthand knowlege of their skills and riding style, so I tend to err toward "worst case scenario" when it comes to wheelsets. You could probably get the XO with Black Flag Pro's and be just fine with them...........but I would feel bad if you did something catastrophic and grenaded them.

    Truthfully the stock wheels on the X7 Goblin are pretty sturdy and would hold up to your weight fairly well. Plus they have the advantage of using standard spokes that can be readily found at most bikeshops. They just aren't as sexy as the BFP's and certainly are heavier.

    If you have the money to spend on the XO, and aren't known as a destroyer of equipment, it's a no brainer. If you are really concerned about the wheelset you could always pick up a really cheap "everyday" wheelset and keep the BFP's for when you lose the rest of your weight or for special occasions......

    Anyway, I hope that helps!

    Jeremy
    Airborne Dude.

  14. #14
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    Oh, one more thing I wanted to mention is that when we ship the Goblin XO's, the BFP wheelset comes with all of the adapters for 9mm and 12/15mm thru-axles just like the aftermarket wheels do, so for those of you who buy the bike and want to sell the wheels in exchange for something else, it will be easier as they have everything everyone needs to fit their bike.

    Jeremy
    Airborne Dude.

  15. #15
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    Goblin vs Goblin XO

    Edited.
    Last edited by KrazyKreitzer; 02-27-2013 at 04:17 PM.

  16. #16
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    The stock Goblin wheels won't fit a fork with a thru-axle, so they won't work with the Reba RLT with the Maxle set-up that comes on the XO level bikes. Sorry!

    Jeremy
    Airborne Dude.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyFlyer View Post
    The stock Goblin wheels won't fit a fork with a thru-axle, so they won't work with the Reba RLT with the Maxle set-up that comes on the XO level bikes. Sorry!

    Jeremy
    Jeremy:

    Thanks for the heads up on the stock wheels !!

    I really lean toward the XO.

    Like you and the rep from Sun Ringle mentioned its not about the weight but about how you use it.

    I go pretty light on my Jamis all mountain so I'm thinking I'd go easy on the Goblin as well.
    I know there are no guarantees on the wheelset and I'm not looking for one !

    Just don't see buying the Xo and switching out wheelsets.

    Being pretty new to this I just don't know what is considered going hard on a rim.

    If for example I'm riding a nice flowing trail and I come upon roots is it abuse to go over themas opposed to around them?

    Same for smallrocks?

    I will not be doing jumps or drops on the Goblin. It is a pretty tough choice for me between Goblin and Goblin XO.

    At my level probably won't know difference between X7 and Xo etc.

    I'm still thinking on this whole issue.

    I'll be in touch. If you are able to address "abuse"issue re rocks ,roots that may be a help in my final decision.

    Thanks

    Dr. Jay

  18. #18
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    Rocks, roots, and all of the normal things you would encounter while riding cross-country trails should be fine. Our trails here in Ohio are very rooty and I have no problems. There are some really rocky trails I ride regularly in Indiana and my Black Flags have come thru fine.

    Drops, landing jumps sideways, hitting trees, big sticks getting caught in the spokes, etc are the things that do most wheelsets in and that would apply to the Black Flag Pros.

    I don't mean to scare you, its not like they are brittle primadonnas. There's a reason why SunRingle makes the Charger series of wheels, and its because some folks need a beefier set of all-mountain type wheels. Unfortunately there isn't one wheelset out there (that I know of) that issuper-light, fast, bomb-proof, and decently priced. However the Black Flag Pro's do a good job of straddling the fence between lightweight race wheels and great everyday wheels.

    On the X7 versus X0 thing: I would honestly say that for most riders, X7 is a damn good groupset and will work great and last for years. You can't go wrong with it. As far as the step-up to X0 goes, X0 definitely has shorter throw for shifting and the shifts will be crisper for the life of the product compared to X7. It's also lighter, and the cranks are definitely stiffer. If you ride two of the same bike equipped with the two groupsets, you will notice the difference. But again, the X7 is damn good stuff.

    The other thing to take into account is the FSA SLK cockpit. The carbon bars and post do add a lot of comfort to the ride. But again its something that you would have to ride the same same bikes back-to-back with the different parts to discern the difference. My hands, wrists, and back do notice the difference between carbon bars/post on a longer ride for sure!

    Hope that helps!

    Jeremy
    Airborne Dude.

  19. #19
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    BigDaddyFlyer:

    Thanks for your help. Had a nice conversation with Eric this afternoon. Pulled the trigger on an XO Goblin !!

    Just double check for me : 31.5 inseam (crotch to floor without shoes ) and height of 5 ft 11 should be an 18 frame size, correct. Thats what I ordered.

    PM if not correct or just make the change to the order. Look forward to some nice 10 ft drops on the Black Flags! Just kidding. At my age I don't bend but break. I'll keep the rims on the ground.

  20. #20
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    Goblin vs Goblin XO

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyFlyer View Post
    The stock Goblin wheels won't fit a fork with a thru-axle, so they won't work with the Reba RLT with the Maxle set-up that comes on the XO level bikes. Sorry!

    Jeremy
    Wow. I can't believe I posted that. It's the same reason they're useless to me. I upgraded to a Reba with a 20mm Maxle and Black Flag Pros.

  21. #21
    Airborne Product Dude
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjay9051 View Post
    BigDaddyFlyer:

    Thanks for your help. Had a nice conversation with Eric this afternoon. Pulled the trigger on an XO Goblin !!

    Just double check for me : 31.5 inseam (crotch to floor without shoes ) and height of 5 ft 11 should be an 18 frame size, correct. Thats what I ordered.

    PM if not correct or just make the change to the order. Look forward to some nice 10 ft drops on the Black Flags! Just kidding. At my age I don't bend but break. I'll keep the rims on the ground.
    Yep, that sounds like the right size to me. I just looked at orders and saw your order so you are good to go!

    Thanks so much for the order. Can't wait to hear more from you once you get the bike and get some rides on it.

    Jeremy
    Airborne Dude.

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