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Thread: In Development?

  1. #1
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    In Development?

    Is there anything in development for a new AM bike? 29 or 27.5?
    It seems that the Airborne lineup has run pretty thin, lots of XC bikes but not many other options.
    Any news on what else is in development?
    I know of the Toxin Free Ride bike.
    And the new, yet to be named, high end Downhill bike.
    I have also heard that there may be an updated Taka like, budget, down hill bike.
    Will there be another run of Delta's in the sold out sizes?
    What else can we expect to see from Airborne in 2013?

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    I'm going to try not to be long-winded but if so I apologize ahead of time............

    I don't know if "thin" is a good word to use. We don't plan on getting to the size of a BikesDirect with 75+ SKU's; we want to stay focused on making great bikes at great prices.

    It's true we have been letting some models dwindle-out and disappear. Models from the beginning of Airborne like the Marauder, Zeppelin, etc we've been selling thru and as we run out we have been turning them off on the site. Being a small company we can't afford to have millions in inventory so we are being smart about bringing in new models as inventory of the old dwindles....

    The biggest sector of mtb sales is XC, so we are always going to be heavy in that department. Go to Trek or Specialized's website and sort it by XC bikes and its obvious that they are also heavy in them for the same reason. We even be coming out with a few more so stay tuned!

    Gravity bikes take time to develop, ride, refine, etc. We've been working on a new 7" and 8" bike for awhile and are getting close. We don't want to put crap out there, so while we are bummed that we aren't selling them yet, we know we are doing the right thing by our customers.

    We've got a few more models planned for the rest of the year, and like always they will come out at different times (not all in September for Interbike like other companies).

    Thanks for the interest!

    Jeremy
    Please Note: I no longer work for Airborne. If you have an Airborne question or problem please contact them directly.

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    Although it would be nice to know if there were more Deltas on the way. I may need a new street bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyFlyer View Post
    I'm going to try not to be long-winded but if so I apologize ahead of time............

    I don't know if "thin" is a good word to use. We don't plan on getting to the size of a BikesDirect with 75+ SKU's; we want to stay focused on making great bikes at great prices.

    It's true we have been letting some models dwindle-out and disappear. Models from the beginning of Airborne like the Marauder, Zeppelin, etc we've been selling thru and as we run out we have been turning them off on the site. Being a small company we can't afford to have millions in inventory so we are being smart about bringing in new models as inventory of the old dwindles....

    The biggest sector of mtb sales is XC, so we are always going to be heavy in that department. Go to Trek or Specialized's website and sort it by XC bikes and its obvious that they are also heavy in them for the same reason. We even be coming out with a few more so stay tuned!

    Gravity bikes take time to develop, ride, refine, etc. We've been working on a new 7" and 8" bike for awhile and are getting close. We don't want to put crap out there, so while we are bummed that we aren't selling them yet, we know we are doing the right thing by our customers.

    We've got a few more models planned for the rest of the year, and like always they will come out at different times (not all in September for Interbike like other companies).

    Thanks for the interest!

    Jeremy


    This is a good answer, But I hope to see a 130-140mm trail bike with 26 or 27.5'' wheels in the future. Its a big segment to be missing. Jumping from 100mm of travel to 180mm of travel leaves a huge gap to fill with something.

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    We are working on an all-mountain/enduro bike. That's all I can tell you about it at this time.

    We've got a lot in the development hopper at the moment but I am being purposefully tight-lipped about things. Hopefully folks understand.

    We don't have any plans to make anymore Delta's at this time. When we sell thru the remaining ones we will be exiting that category for now.

    Thanks,

    Jeremy
    Please Note: I no longer work for Airborne. If you have an Airborne question or problem please contact them directly.

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    Thanks for the response, I didn't mean to criticize, or try to get you to spill your secrets. You guys are doing a great job, that's why I'd like to buy more bikes from you.But right now I'm looking for something a little more slack and All Mountain-y.
    Kinda bummed that I missed the Delta. I sometimes feel the need for something more road friendly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swildnm View Post
    Kinda bummed that I missed the Delta. I sometimes feel the need for something more road friendly.
    You and me both. I like a road ride occasionally but my road bike weighs almost the same as how old it is and the bike is almost 40 years old.

    And also to the person talking about 26 or 27.5" wheels. I also wish for something along those lines as 26ers suit what I like to ride more than 29ers. Just imagine a 26" goblin .

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    In Development?

    I too would buy a CX bike like the Delta if they had one with a similar spec at a similar price. I'm also interested in a 100-120 mm 650b hardtail.

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    +1 for an AM Airborne bike. I have the Goblin and would love an AM bike to complete the stable.

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    I would say build a 26 AM bike with enough room to squeeze 650b wheelsets in. The zeppelin elite fits this bill with a switch to a fox fork or a 650b specific fork.. That probably would not work since you guys love your RS forks and they don't work well with 650b

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    This is just water cooler talk, nothing directed at Airborne.

    I would be interested in a Hobgoblin with 130mm travel, geo like the Stumpjumper 29, 15mm front axle, with short stem and wide bars. For a 27.5 something similar to the Norco Killer B options would also be interesting.

    Not sure if I agree with a convertible 26 to 27.5 bike since it would throw all the geo and BB heights out of whack. Then you have to use something like Rocky Mountain's Ride-9 system but that would make the frame more complicated and more expensive which goes against Airborne's model.

    After riding the Goblin when I get back on my 26er I feel like I'm on a kid's bike and can more easily go over the bars. I'm more of a trail rider and don't get air often so flickability is not a big issue for me so I'm liking the stability and traction of the bigger tires. I haven't ridden a 27.5 but it seems like it is perfect for agressive trail/AM applications.

    Just my two cents...

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    I'm keeping a eye out for a 26er AM-style bike from Airborne.

    I like the company philosphy and support it.

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    In Development?

    Quote Originally Posted by betorac View Post

    Not sure if I agree with a convertible 26 to 27.5 bike since it would throw all the geo and BB heights out of whack. .

    Just my two cents...
    How does changing the wheel size modify geometry? You raise the bb about a 1/2". But your angles will stay the same.

    Something with short chain stays would be nice if you go am 29er.

    Def something with a slacker HA.

    And I'm not saying they should market it as such. But if someone could modify to 650b. That would be nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jkidd_39 View Post
    Something with short chain stays would be nice if you go am 29er.

    Def something with a slacker HA.
    Exactly what I was looking for. I'm starting to gather parts for a Yelli Screamy build.

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    In Development?

    Quote Originally Posted by swildnm View Post
    Exactly what I was looking for. I'm starting to gather parts for a Yelli Screamy build.
    Have you got to ride one yet?! I love the yelli. I should have one in about two weeks. I'm very excited.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jkidd_39 View Post
    How does changing the wheel size modify geometry? You raise the bb about a 1/2". But your angles will stay the same.
    Angles may stay the same, but center of gravity changes, and deflection on the fork/suspension changes. Incrementally, yes, but it changes. Better to do one size the correct way, (and cheaper) than to try to do a "2 for 1" where nobody will be happy. (Except the 650bers )

    An "AM" 26er will be a nice addition to the line up - 150-160mm travel, slack geometry with a tough frame and 2.4 tires. MMMmmmm
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    In Development?

    Quote Originally Posted by jhazard View Post
    Angles may stay the same, but center of gravity changes, and deflection on the fork/suspension changes. Incrementally, yes, but it changes. Better to do one size the correct way, (and cheaper) than to try to do a "2 for 1" where nobody will be happy. (Except the 650bers )

    An "AM" 26er will be a nice addition to the line up - 150-160mm travel, slack geometry with a tough frame and 2.4 tires. MMMmmmm
    I can understand center of gravity changes obviously. But how does raising the bike increase deflection on suspension??

    That makes no sense to me.

    I so agree that an AM 26er would be good. And I'm not saying make a 650b. I'm saying just allow the possibility to convert. Look at the SC nickel/butchers. They were not popular at all when released. But now everyone wants one to convert to 650b.

    2.4 tires??? My god! I thought my 2.1s were big. I'm so behind in someways haha

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    Quote Originally Posted by jkidd_39 View Post
    I can understand center of gravity changes obviously. But how does raising the bike increase deflection on suspension??

    That makes no sense to me.

    I so agree that an AM 26er would be good. And I'm not saying make a 650b. I'm saying just allow the possibility to convert. Look at the SC nickel/butchers. They were not popular at all when released. But now everyone wants one to convert to 650b.

    2.4 tires??? My god! I thought my 2.1s were big. I'm so behind in someways haha
    Deflection (maybe this is a bad term to use, not sure...?) changes because the axle is further away from the ground/impact point. Again, this is minimal, but with bikes and suspension - millimeters (and in this case, a larger diameter wheel) do make a difference.

    I run a little extreme with tire sizes I like 2.4 for all around (except for smooth/flow trail xc blasting). 2.3 is probably more reasonable.

    650b might be a good choice, there is momentum in that class... Never rode one, but loved putting my 29ers their limits. Just need a bike to pick up where the 29ers leave off, haha.
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    I guess my point was if you convert to 27.5 and want to keep the same BB height, than you have to to alter the goes. If you don't mind the higher center of gravity than no, the geos wouldn't change.

    Bigger tires are the bomb! Got to give them a try, kind of like going up in wheel size but not as dramatic. Tires are the cheapest way to change how your bike rides.

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    I've ridden a few bikes that have been converted to 650b and I *personally* didn't like the higher BB and ride feel, but that's just me. I think to give 650b a fair shake the bike should be designed around it. Everyone is different though....

    The all-mountain bike in 26" format is definitely in the design hopper....and Jerry, having access to the top-secret Airborne StoneCutters Inner Sanctum has seen drawings of it.

    I'll be honest, I'm not that excited about 650b. I know a lot of manufacturers have jumped on board, but to me the jury is still out. I can see its application where smaller riders have a problem riding a frame designed around 29" wheels and would benefit from a 650b wheel (like, for example, if we made a sub-16" sized Goblin it would almost have to have 650b's). But for a rider that's got the body proportions that allows for the use of 29", I don't see the 650B thing being any advantage.

    I think a lot of the sudden uptake in 650b is due to manufacturers not wanting to get caught with their pants down again when another wheel size takes off, much like what happened when 29ers finally became "the thing". Product managers were scrambling then to make up missing ground and they don't want to be there again.

    I'm not saying we WON'T do a 650b in the future........but we've got to focus on SKU's that sell well and make sense for us..........and if you put a gun to my head and asked me if we should make one right now I wouldn't have a good answer for that question yet.

    Jeremy
    Please Note: I no longer work for Airborne. If you have an Airborne question or problem please contact them directly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyFlyer View Post

    The all-mountain bike in 26" format is definitely in the design hopper...
    I only saw this part and got to excited to read the rest.

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    If I wasn't armchair quarterbacking than I agree with BigDaddyFlyer, considering unknown of 27.5 and options of 26er. Definitely interested to see what gets developed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jkidd_39 View Post
    Have you got to ride one yet?! I love the yelli. I should have one in about two weeks. I'm very excited.
    No, but I've never seen any bad feedback about them. I'm excited, frame should be in around the end of the month, will probably take a few months to build.

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    In Development?

    In Development?-imageuploadedbytapatalk1362170248.267837.jpg

    Here is the one ill be buying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jkidd_39 View Post
    Here is the one ill be buying.
    Nice, Putting a tower pro on mine too. Picking up the fork at my LBS today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyFlyer View Post
    I've ridden a few bikes that have been converted to 650b and I *personally* didn't like the higher BB and ride feel, but that's just me. I think to give 650b a fair shake the bike should be designed around it. Everyone is different though....

    The all-mountain bike in 26" format is definitely in the design hopper....and Jerry, having access to the top-secret Airborne StoneCutters Inner Sanctum has seen drawings of it.

    I'll be honest, I'm not that excited about 650b. I know a lot of manufacturers have jumped on board, but to me the jury is still out. I can see its application where smaller riders have a problem riding a frame designed around 29" wheels and would benefit from a 650b wheel (like, for example, if we made a sub-16" sized Goblin it would almost have to have 650b's). But for a rider that's got the body proportions that allows for the use of 29", I don't see the 650B thing being any advantage.

    I think a lot of the sudden uptake in 650b is due to manufacturers not wanting to get caught with their pants down again when another wheel size takes off, much like what happened when 29ers finally became "the thing". Product managers were scrambling then to make up missing ground and they don't want to be there again.

    I'm not saying we WON'T do a 650b in the future........but we've got to focus on SKU's that sell well and make sense for us..........and if you put a gun to my head and asked me if we should make one right now I wouldn't have a good answer for that question yet.

    Jeremy

    I prefer 26'' wheels over any other wheel size anyway, so a 26'' AM bike is right up my ally. I feel like a lot of people have jumped on the 650b band wagon just because its the new thing and people read how good it is. In my experience, you loose the benefits of big or small wheels and dont really gain anything significant. Its good to see company that doesnt just jump on the bandwagon because everyone else is.

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    OK, one last thing and I will then be quiet: We are also working on a 120mm AM/Trail HT 29er.
    Please Note: I no longer work for Airborne. If you have an Airborne question or problem please contact them directly.

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    All mountain....can dig on that!

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    I specifically registered to add my 2 cents (Take them for what you will) I've been riding multiple brands recently with the quest to find the "perfect" bike. Despite the current nay Sayers regarding the "650B" wheel size alot of big names have jumped on board with the relatively new push to market the last few years.

    I myself have actually had the pleasure of riding a 650B and it fit the bill for me. I'm currently riding a 26er hard tail, road my brothers 29er Full suspension and liked it thus causing my quest for an upgrade. Then had the opportunity to demo a 650B and liked the compromises. Flick-ability still intact, easier rolling, moderate suspension travel, jack of all trades and master of none bike. Exactly what the current market is missing, a great middle of the road, do-all bike.

    This particular 650b climbed well, descended well, ripped the trails, and took moderate drops with ease.Loved the bike, gasped a little at the price.

    With Airborne's current marketing methods and delivery to consumers, and Airborne really wanted to corner a niche market, this would definitely be a great time to do it.

    That, and I really would like to see what they would come up with in a 650B

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    I don't know that Airborne would corner even a "niche market" with a 650b (or that a niche market is even something they're interested in).

    A few companies with 650b in their product line:

    KHS
    Jamis
    Scott
    Transition
    Nashbar
    Intense
    Foes
    Lynskey
    Lenz
    Norco
    Turner
    **** Edit****

    Note that the big three haven't really jumped full force on the bandwagon. One of the popular excuses for 650b is that it's not possible to design beyond 130mm travel for 29ers. Specialized just blew that one out of the water with the intro of their new Enduro.

    I have a feeling its much more consumer/trend driven than an actual "good idea" endorsed by the community... ha, whatever that means...

    As it stands, Airborne's line up is predominately XC-orientated. An "all-around" mid travel 650b doesn't really fill in any gaps between the current (badass) XC bikes and the upcoming gravity update. An All-Mountain styled bike aimed at aggressive trail riders fits right in there. With Enduro events growing in popularity, a (nearly) race-ready "Enduro sytle bike" would be a hit with people looking to get into that style of riding. Enduro is just going to get more and more popular.

    And I did see the super-secret StoneCutters Inner Sanctum drawing of the 26er - my fingers are crossed that it comes to fruition
    Last edited by jhazard; 03-05-2013 at 12:30 AM. Reason: Trisome
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    Santa Cruz has a 650b? News to me...

    I think a 650b is a great option for shorter guys wanting a 29er type ride w/ good standover height.

    I think geometry is the key to a good bike. Something slacker is missing from the lineup. But the all mountain market is pretty small compared to the XC market. So I certainly see the reasoning behind it. I love a slacker angle. Just fits my style better.

    But I can't ignore that Airborne is a successful company. So I would assume they have much more in depth tools to gauge the market than I do.

    The whole Specialized enduro 29er is a prime example of the BS that floods the bike market... half the guys talking about how this will kill the 650b market are ubber hardcore and look like a well placed plant. If that kind of geo was gonna kill the 650b market, then why wasn't the Canfield yelli screamy been brought up?? Pretty much the same thing minus the FS.

    If anything a huge company like specialized making such a bike leads me to believe that they know the 650b market is growing and trying to get in on that by offering something that the 650b's and 26ers are doing. Long travel FS bikes w/ short chainstays and slack angles..

    If it's new from spesh then it's been in the market for years.. they are never the first company to break thru the wall of technology.. they wait and see what is popping and use there marketing power to steal thunder or they get the lawyers out and sue for it..

    I think airborne listens to there customers and provide some very good options.. but I bet that the guardians are selling pretty damn well and they are a much lighter risk to the books. Where as an AM type ride is much more costly. I would hope that Xfusion get's there demand issues underway and that opens the door to a very reasonable and awesome shock/fork options in the AM set up.

    Imagine an AM frame with a 130/160mm fork at the flip of a switch.. pretty fancy for guys that climb and guys that bomb down hills..

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    Fixed that, my bad.

    Admittedly, I'm not a 650b fan. I think it will eventually saturate the market to near the level of 29ers, just because there's a perceived space for it to fit and $$$ to be made. If people ride them and like them, more power I guess. I just thought it was appropriate to point out how it (the Enduro) addressed something that the 650b'ers use as an "excuse", I'm not implying that it's purpose is a tool against all things not 29.

    I don't think the Canfield is necessarily a threat, either. Neither is the Kona Honzo or the Diamondback Mason. Like the Enduro, I don't feel they're concerned with other wheel sizes. They're taking the 29er to its logical conclusion, I guess, as a common denominator for all mentioned is the slacker/aggressive geometry/intended use. These are all bikes that intend to go beyond the XC trail and actually handle some more abusive riding. I think it's interesting that despite the wheel sizes, bikes are generally going slacker across the board. I'm on board with this trend.
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  33. #33
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    I agree..if and when the big three jump on board there may be a drive to push the new wheel across the market but seeing Specialized pop out the new Enduro makes me wonder if they are even going to go down that road right now..I love my Goblin and it is a great XC bike but when I want to go out and rip and jump I still pull out the 26er 6 inch travel bike and still have a blast on it and have never thought I needed or desire a bigger wheel on it to make it more capable...if anything all the years of riding my 26ers have made me a better rider technical wise...I could see the benefit of the 650 for smaller riders..I think the biking community is so big and diverse that finding the serve all bike is almost impossible..for me another long travel 26er would be my next bike purchase..solely for fun factor..but I still ride my HTs more than any of my other bikes..I still dig the simplicity and efficiency of the HT

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    Quote Originally Posted by jhazard View Post
    Fixed that, my bad.

    Admittedly, I'm not a 650b fan. I think it will eventually saturate the market to near the level of 29ers, just because there's a perceived space for it to fit and $$$ to be made. If people ride them and like them, more power I guess. I just thought it was appropriate to point out how it (the Enduro) addressed something that the 650b'ers use as an "excuse", I'm not implying that it's purpose is a tool against all things not 29.

    I don't think the Canfield is necessarily a threat, either. Neither is the Kona Honzo or the Diamondback Mason. Like the Enduro, I don't feel they're concerned with other wheel sizes. They're taking the 29er to its logical conclusion, I guess, as a common denominator for all mentioned is the slacker/aggressive geometry/intended use. These are all bikes that intend to go beyond the XC trail and actually handle some more abusive riding. I think it's interesting that despite the wheel sizes, bikes are generally going slacker across the board. I'm on board with this trend.
    Market saturation is not due to good designs. There is a lot of marketing power in this industry. It's very much like the diesel performance market in that regard. There are tons of ideas/gospel/industry norms that are floating around that are just total BS.. This comes from a ton of sources, nut-swingers, uneducated people, bike shop salesmen. These ideas push people into buying stupid stuff.

    I slapped a set of 650b rims that I got given to me on my zeppelin elite. It really makes a difference.. But I am still running a 120mm fork.. if I stepped up to a 140mm I bet I would have seen a similar result.. a different bike.. there is a certain placebo effect on bike modification.. you need to get some serious miles on something before you get a feeling for it.

    At this point the weight of the bike is my biggest issue but my zep is just bulky.. it is what it is.. I need to go to a different bike if I wanna get light.

    And I'm find with that.. I don't speak poorly of my bike. I like it.. I think it's great.. but there are short comings.. but I paid $800 for it.. there has to be corners cut somewhere..

    I look at biking like I train my operators at work.. I have an old skid steer with a T handle and no seat belt and the pedals stick. The thing is high centered so you feel like your on a bar stool. All workers start on this. Once they are good on it they may use my really nice john deere skid steer. Every worker appreciated the nice unit b/c they understand the difference 20 years makes in tech upgrades.. Sometimes you need to learn on the low end to appreciate the high end..

    Everytime I am getting my ass beat on a long hill I think about how I'll breeze thru it with my new bike.. not because the tech is better but because I grinded it out on a heavy pedal bobbing FS to appreciate the goat climbing ability of a HT

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    Quote Originally Posted by jkidd_39 View Post
    Market saturation is not due to good designs. There is a lot of marketing power in this industry. It's very much like the diesel performance market in that regard. There are tons of ideas/gospel/industry norms that are floating around that are just total BS.. This comes from a ton of sources, nut-swingers, uneducated people, bike shop salesmen. These ideas push people into buying stupid stuff.

    I slapped a set of 650b rims that I got given to me on my zeppelin elite. It really makes a difference.. But I am still running a 120mm fork.. if I stepped up to a 140mm I bet I would have seen a similar result.. a different bike.. there is a certain placebo effect on bike modification.. you need to get some serious miles on something before you get a feeling for it.

    At this point the weight of the bike is my biggest issue but my zep is just bulky.. it is what it is.. I need to go to a different bike if I wanna get light.

    And I'm find with that.. I don't speak poorly of my bike. I like it.. I think it's great.. but there are short comings.. but I paid $800 for it.. there has to be corners cut somewhere..

    I look at biking like I train my operators at work.. I have an old skid steer with a T handle and no seat belt and the pedals stick. The thing is high centered so you feel like your on a bar stool. All workers start on this. Once they are good on it they may use my really nice john deere skid steer. Every worker appreciated the nice unit b/c they understand the difference 20 years makes in tech upgrades.. Sometimes you need to learn on the low end to appreciate the high end..

    Everytime I am getting my ass beat on a long hill I think about how I'll breeze thru it with my new bike.. not because the tech is better but because I grinded it out on a heavy pedal bobbing FS to appreciate the goat climbing ability of a HT
    I have an old mid nineties steel Specialized Hardrock that I've been putting tons of miles on over the last few years. I have never liked the bike. Now I ordered the Goblin and expect it to feel like the greatest thing to ever happen to cycling.

  36. #36
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    26er-AM/Trail Bike.....can we expect it in 2013?

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    My guess is we'll see it in 2014 since it is still on the drawing board.

    I think the wheel discussion is like beating a dead horse so moving the discussion along, since it will be 26er, what else do you want to see?

    - Head angle, 68-67
    - Bars, 720-740mm?
    - Stem 50-70mm
    - Thru axles front and rear
    - Front and rear suspension 140-150mm
    - Stiff rear suspension but with good pedaling/braking, FSR?
    - A rear shock with lockout and/or platform damping. Monarch Plus RC3? Fox CTD?
    - Tires 2.3
    - 2 x 10 drive train with X9 type 2
    - Cable routing ready for dropper post
    - iscg tabs
    ???????????????????????????

  38. #38
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    HA - 67 or less, actually 67 is just about right.
    Stem - 50mm for 17" and under - 70mm for larger sizes.
    Bars - 760mm - user can trim if too wide.
    Agree - thru axles on both ends is a good thing.

    2.3 tires would be a good starting point, but not smaller. 2.35 Minion DHFs would be awesome, 2.4 High Rollers would be killer.

    1x10 is probably not realistic, 2x10 with ISCG tabs would be cool, including a roller guide like the Blackspire Stinger would be keen.

    Cable routing - internal would be nice, but more important would be to keep it off the bottom of the down tube. Dropper routing a plus.

    Bolt-on grips, like the Wingman or similar, QR seatpost clamp.

    SHORT Chainstays with 160mm travel front/rear.

    X-7.

    Make it more terrain-friendly, where the descent/tech/durability is the focus, rather than the pedaling and weight.
    Something that fills the hole left by the Marauder - closer to mini-dh, farther from "trail/XC"...
    Cool BandolArrow

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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhazard View Post
    HA - 67 or less, actually 67 is just about right.
    Stem - 50mm for 17" and under - 70mm for larger sizes.
    Bars - 760mm - user can trim if too wide.
    Agree - thru axles on both ends is a good thing.

    2.3 tires would be a good starting point, but not smaller. 2.35 Minion DHFs would be awesome, 2.4 High Rollers would be killer.

    1x10 is probably not realistic, 2x10 with ISCG tabs would be cool, including a roller guide like the Blackspire Stinger would be keen.

    Cable routing - internal would be nice, but more important would be to keep it off the bottom of the down tube. Dropper routing a plus.

    Bolt-on grips, like the Wingman or similar, QR seatpost clamp.

    SHORT Chainstays with 160mm travel front/rear.

    X-7.

    Make it more terrain-friendly, where the descent/tech/durability is the focus, rather than the pedaling and weight.
    Something that fills the hole left by the Marauder - closer to mini-dh, farther from "trail/XC"...
    I would be all over a rig like that.

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    hopefully they won't use the Marauder's rear suspension, that design sucks. Horrible pedal bob and it stiffens under brake. Can't use FSR or VPP due to pattents, maybe another single pivot or multi-link design. At or below 30lbs would be nice as well...

  41. #41
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    There are a lot of happy Marauder owners out there. I think its a bit extreme to say "that design sucks". It was a simple single-pivot design that was great for folks on a budget. That being said, we have no plans to use a simple single-pivot design. All of our suspension bikes in the works are modified single pivot designs and twin link designs depending on the genre.

    Thanks,

    Jeremy
    Please Note: I no longer work for Airborne. If you have an Airborne question or problem please contact them directly.

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    I was talking about that single pivot design not the Marauder. Other companies do use it like Santa Cruz Heckler, Orange because it is well understood, simple, strong and cheap to make but suffers from many negative forces. My point was there are better rear suspension designs out there...

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by betorac View Post
    I was talking about that single pivot design not the Marauder. Other companies do use it like Santa Cruz Heckler, Orange because it is well understood, simple, strong and cheap to make but suffers from many negative forces. My point was there are better rear suspension designs out there...
    Every suspension design has its compromises. (Santa Cruz also used the single pivot on the Superlight, Julianna & Nickel - and Steve Peat won World Cup DH races on an Orange). The Heckler was a very sought after Freeride/DH bike its day...

    I don't think the single pivot on the Marauder sucks at all. Does it bob? Yep. But it's a light freeride/am bike, it's not intended to be efficient in the pedal department. Its intended to take abuse. You can always throw a platform shock on it, like Specialized does with its FSR stuff (They had to invent "the brain" to combat pedal bob that is inherent in the fsr design).

    Almost all single pivots experience some amount of brake jack too (Kona? They used to come with brake therapy arms). I dislike that term - I believe it's mostly a non issue that people bring up when nit-picking a bike. Stay off the brakes in the rough, you'll go faster

    But... it's all a moot point, as Airborne is going a different direction anyhow Under 30lbs? Maybe asking a bit too much.
    "Cheap - Light - Strong - Pick 2" ~ Tom Ritchey



    Last rider is me, on the Marauder... didn't hold me back one bit...
    <iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/61077241" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe> <p><a href="http://vimeo.com/61077241">jumps3</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/jerryhazard">J Hazard</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>
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  44. #44
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    I would rather have a sturdy reliable rig than lightweight..my current all mountain rig weighs 35 pounds...I just look at it as I am getting a good work out on the climbs...20mm thru axle for sure..as far as suspension design.... have rode a few and some where great and some kinda left me scratching my head..I am very interested to see what Airborne comes out with as I am waiting until then before I replace my current all mountain rig and hoping it will be a frame option as well

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXTony View Post
    I would rather have a sturdy reliable rig than lightweight..my current all mountain rig weighs 35 pounds...I just look at it as I am getting a good work out on the climbs...20mm thru axle for sure..as far as suspension design.... have rode a few and some where great and some kinda left me scratching my head..I am very interested to see what Airborne comes out with as I am waiting until then before I replace my current all mountain rig and hoping it will be a frame option as well
    Right on, my Marauder has to be near 35, and it's not even the heaviest in the group I've been riding with. One cat has a turner with a dual crown and hammerschmidt, I'm afraid to even guess what it weights, but he outclimbs more than half the pack. I'm with the sturdier the better sentiment as well.

    What is your current AM rig? Are there things you don't like about it?
    Cool BandolArrow

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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhazard View Post
    Right on, my Marauder has to be near 35, and it's not even the heaviest in the group I've been riding with. One cat has a turner with a dual crown and hammerschmidt, I'm afraid to even guess what it weights, but he outclimbs more than half the pack. I'm with the sturdier the better sentiment as well.

    What is your current AM rig? Are there things you don't like about it?
    Carbon Cannondale Moto..some of the weight I added..a KS dropper...I like almost everything about it except the rear end can flex sometimes and once you get used to it it is not that a big of deal..but its there and sometimes at speed on descents where there are tight curves you can really feel it...kind of a wash out feeling..though I have never washed out on it but it has gotten a little squirrely at times...I am hoping to get another bike similar or frame and swap everything over...I have a brand new Lyric on it and that thing is solid so far..mine climbs pretty good also for what it weighs since swapping to a 2z10 on it and running 11x36...I also had a Enduro and could not stand that bike...I never got on with the geo of the thing or the rear suspension set up...so I am really curious what Airborne comes out with...

    I have noticed the heavier all mountain rigs with the right geo just rail on the descents and bomb over tech stuff and the line is where ever you point it..track better and stay in contact with the trail better until you launch..I like the feel of the weight on most stuff and it just feels solid at speed..could just be my own perception...

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    In Development?

    Resurrecting this for a minute. BDF, I saw on your Facebook page you guys are done with the 26" wheel size for all cross country designs to come, this is true?
    -Airborne Skyhawk
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfb12 View Post
    Resurrecting this for a minute. BDF, I saw on your Facebook page you guys are done with the 26" wheel size for all cross country designs to come, this is true?
    Once the Skyhawk and Sabre bikes sell out, there are no plans to resurrect those bikes. And right now those are the only two 26" XC bikes we have in our line-up. The sub-$500 bike category is difficult for us to make a product that lives up to our value and quality expectations and still be able to make any profit.

    Our "opening pricepoint bike", for lack of a better term, will be the Guardian. If we were to make another 26" XC bike it would have to be "Guardian-esque" in terms of spec, and it just doesn't make sense for us to make another bike that would conflict with it.

    And to be totally honest; we really believe in 29ers and think that 29" is the optimum wheel size for an XC platform. We aren't alone in this feeling, as last year at Interbike most of the bike companies that were exhibiting barely had any 26" XC rigs. All of their attention has shifted to 29 and to a lesser extent 27.5.


    Anyway, hope that makes sense. Thanks!

    Jeremy
    Please Note: I no longer work for Airborne. If you have an Airborne question or problem please contact them directly.

  49. #49
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    I currently ride a Goblin XO and love it. I also have a 26 AM style Jamis ( 2009 XAM 2).

    My take on a 650 as follows:

    Clearly with enough hype people will jump on the bandwagon. Question is do we "need" a 650 in the Airborne fleet?

    I would think 26 and 29 are more than enough.

    With this 650 thing who knows maybe in 2 years there will be a 30.5 and than a 33 for really easy roll over obstacles.

    I like the fact that Airborne remains a small company. I would think concentrate on a 26 AM style bike. Beefy frame, strong wheels, lots of travel and 2 levels of components like the Goblin and Goblin XO. Maybe the Mountain Goat and Goat XO ?

    Sure if Airborne produces a 650 it will sell but I think the market would be more fertile for an AM style bike.

    Of course they can put out a 650 and an AM style 26er. Question is how many of them will sell. I have no market research and with the 650 craze a 650 would likely sell but at what point does Airborne morph into a Bike Direct type of operation?

    I like the way they take care of customers and the "mom and pop" feel of the company.

    If they are able to add more models without losing the personal touch go for it!

    If not, grow wisely and remember your customers who helped you get to where you are.

    So, Jeremy any plans for a 33 inch wheel with say 200 mm travel in the future?

  50. #50
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    In Development?

    Quote Originally Posted by drjay9051 View Post
    I currently ride a Goblin XO and love it. I also have a 26 AM style Jamis ( 2009 XAM 2).

    My take on a 650 as follows:

    Clearly with enough hype people will jump on the bandwagon. Question is do we "need" a 650 in the Airborne fleet?

    I would think 26 and 29 are more than enough.

    With this 650 thing who knows maybe in 2 years there will be a 30.5 and than a 33 for really easy roll over obstacles.

    I like the fact that Airborne remains a small company. I would think concentrate on a 26 AM style bike. Beefy frame, strong wheels, lots of travel and 2 levels of components like the Goblin and Goblin XO. Maybe the Mountain Goat and Goat XO ?

    Sure if Airborne produces a 650 it will sell but I think the market would be more fertile for an AM style bike.

    Of course they can put out a 650 and an AM style 26er. Question is how many of them will sell. I have no market research and with the 650 craze a 650 would likely sell but at what point does Airborne morph into a Bike Direct type of operation?

    I like the way they take care of customers and the "mom and pop" feel of the company.

    If they are able to add more models without losing the personal touch go for it!

    If not, grow wisely and remember your customers who helped you get to where you are.

    So, Jeremy any plans for a 33 inch wheel with say 200 mm travel in the future?
    Lol for 33" wheels. The only thing that kills me is I personally love the company but I have had no luck with 29ers, but I've only ridden the specialized rockhopper and gt kakoram 2.0 (or however you spell it) and I could not get the feel of the geometry. That's why I went with the skyhawk honestly. I might try to work with one with similar to 26er geometry in the future but who knows.
    -Airborne Skyhawk
    -2000 Raleigh M30
    -2008 Cannondale Rush 6

  51. #51
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    33inch is so last-week, the new trend is 36inches!



    Jeremy
    Please Note: I no longer work for Airborne. If you have an Airborne question or problem please contact them directly.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyFlyer View Post
    33inch is so last-week, the new trend is 36inches!



    Jeremy
    Funny!!

    Hey, BDF: When you coming down to Villages to see the in-laws?

    Maybe a few of us Airborne pilots can hook up at Santos??

  53. #53
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    In Development?

    Hah Im going up there in early June, unfourtuantely can't bring the airborne for safety reasons while traveling.
    -Airborne Skyhawk
    -2000 Raleigh M30
    -2008 Cannondale Rush 6

  54. #54
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    SWMBO (she who must be obeyed) is heading down there to visit her mom in July, but unfortunately I won't be able to get away from work for that trip. The next opportunity for me to get down there will probably be the Holidays. I'll let you know, thanks!

    Jeremy
    Please Note: I no longer work for Airborne. If you have an Airborne question or problem please contact them directly.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyFlyer View Post
    SWMBO (she who must be obeyed) is heading down there to visit her mom in July, but unfortunately I won't be able to get away from work for that trip. The next opportunity for me to get down there will probably be the Holidays. I'll let you know, thanks!

    Jeremy
    I look forward to that. Should be lots of fun. I'm pretty sure Mitch (Hobgob XO) would be up for a ride or 2.

  56. #56
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    Im down for a ride anytime! Holidays is the best time to ride in florida! Im seeing a ride in santos jay soon. Ill probably be free next weekend after I check out san felasco this weekend. Ill get with ya next week and ill meet ya at the parking lot!

  57. #57
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    In Development?

    Oops mispost
    -Airborne Skyhawk
    -2000 Raleigh M30
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    I hope Airborne uses a type 2 derailleur...

    SRAM Introduces New Trigger Shifters, X7 Type 2 Rear Derailleur

  59. #59
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    Still hoping for a steel frame 29er. For some reason have the itch to build a few steel frame rigs up. Going backwards.

  60. #60
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    Someday a steel 29er will happen, but probably not this year. Keep asking!

    We are using a type 2 RD on a new model coming out in 2 months, so they will be working their way onto some of our models. As far as maybe putting a type 2 X7 on the Goblin, our margin is at the point right now where anything we add in additional cost will bump the selling price of the bike. So, I'll throw this out there; Is a type 2 X7 RD on a Goblin worth a small price increase for folks?

    Thanks!

    Jeremy

    PS: I've been riding on a Type 2 XO RD for awhile now and really like it!
    Please Note: I no longer work for Airborne. If you have an Airborne question or problem please contact them directly.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyFlyer View Post
    Someday a steel 29er will happen, but probably not this year. Keep asking!

    We are using a type 2 RD on a new model coming out in 2 months, so they will be working their way onto some of our models. As far as maybe putting a type 2 X7 on the Goblin, our margin is at the point right now where anything we add in additional cost will bump the selling price of the bike. So, I'll throw this out there; Is a type 2 X7 RD on a Goblin worth a small price increase for folks?

    Thanks!

    Jeremy

    PS: I've been riding on a Type 2 XO RD for awhile now and really like it!

    How soon will that new model be available on the website for pre-order?

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyFlyer View Post

    We are using a type 2 RD on a new model coming out in 2 months



    Jeremy
    Please be something other then a 9r

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Please be something other then a 9r
    Sorry to dissapoint you. Its going to be on a trail-oriented 120mm hardtail 29er.

    We are firm believers in the 29inch wheelsize for XC/Trail bikes; we don't plan on making a 26inch bike in those categories anytime soon.

    How soon will that new model be available on the website for pre-order?
    We are hoping about 3-4 weeks in advance. We need to get photography done and build the page on our website.

    Thanks!

    Jeremy
    Please Note: I no longer work for Airborne. If you have an Airborne question or problem please contact them directly.

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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyFlyer View Post
    Sorry to dissapoint you. Its going to be on a trail-oriented 120mm hardtail 29er.

    We are firm believers in the 29inch wheelsize for XC/Trail bikes; we don't plan on making a 26inch bike in those categories anytime soon.



    We are hoping about 3-4 weeks in advance. We need to get photography done and build the page on our website.

    Thanks!

    Jeremy
    Can you divulge any information as to the price point? Even a rough estimate would help. I want to start planning my purchase now

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyFlyer View Post
    Sorry to dissapoint you. Its going to be on a trail-oriented 120mm hardtail 29er.

    We are firm believers in the 29inch wheelsize for XC/Trail bikes; we don't plan on making a 26inch bike in those categories anytime soon.



    We are hoping about 3-4 weeks in advance. We need to get photography done and build the page on our website.

    Thanks!

    Jeremy


    This is great news! Can you comment at all on the geometry?

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyFlyer View Post
    Someday a steel 29er will happen, but probably not this year. Keep asking!

    We are using a type 2 RD on a new model coming out in 2 months, so they will be working their way onto some of our models. As far as maybe putting a type 2 X7 on the Goblin, our margin is at the point right now where anything we add in additional cost will bump the selling price of the bike. So, I'll throw this out there; Is a type 2 X7 RD on a Goblin worth a small price increase for folks?

    Thanks!

    Jeremy

    PS: I've been riding on a Type 2 XO RD for awhile now and really like it!
    Since I already have the Goblin I'll be upgrading to the Type 2 x7 or x9 on my own.

    Happy to hear about 120mm trail 29er, I'm sure that it will do well. But since I already have the Goblin I was waiting for the 26er All Mountain/Enduro bike that was mentioned. Any additional info on this bike?

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyFlyer View Post
    Sorry to dissapoint you. Its going to be on a trail-oriented 120mm hardtail 29er.

    We are firm believers in the 29inch wheelsize for XC/Trail bikes; we don't plan on making a 26inch bike in those categories anytime soon.


    Jeremy

    I will assume that none of you are short

  68. #68
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    I'm waiting for the Airborne road and cross bikes. An Airborne disc brake road bike would be hot!
    He who dares....wins!

  69. #69
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    They did a Cross bike - the Delta, complete with Disc brakes. Wouldn't expect another one too soon....

    Mullen: I'm not tall by any means - 5'8", small Hobgoblin does me just right....
    Cool BandolArrow

    Jerry Hazard – website

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by madirishman View Post
    Can you divulge any information as to the price point? Even a rough estimate would help. I want to start planning my purchase now

    Right around $1600, and very well spec'd for that price. That's all we can say at this time.
    Please Note: I no longer work for Airborne. If you have an Airborne question or problem please contact them directly.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhazard View Post
    They did a Cross bike - the Delta, complete with Disc brakes. Wouldn't expect another one too soon....

    Mullen: I'm not tall by any means - 5'8", small Hobgoblin does me just right....
    For me(and most of the people I ride with) Its not just our height(im 5'8'' also), but our aggressive riding style. I worked at a local shop and have test road a ton of 29rs and every single one felt like a tank and handled slow. They are great for XC riders who like to roll over log piles and rocks and what not, but for me, I like to jump over them and throw my bike around on the trail. I have yet to find a 29r that lets me do it.

    Im not saying I want a 26'' wheeled bike either, I would have been happy with a 650b option with somewhat aggressive geometry. I just cant get behind the 9r movement at this point.

    Im very happy with my current bike, But I built it up to double as my DH bike, so its a tank (36.5 lbs). But I'm looking for a trail bike to take over some of the XC duties. Guess I have to keep looking. (still waiting on the toxin to see what the specs are though)

  72. #72
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    We know that not everyone will be happy with 29ers, but its a big market and something that we feel strongly about; expecially when it comes to XC bikes. It doesn't make sense for us to make a 26inch XC bike at the moment as the market for them is dwindling fast.

    Something to keep in mind is that while we are growing by leaps and bounds, we are still a small company. We can't afford to have 16 irons in the fire at once, working on a ton of SKU's, and rushing things to market. We don't want to be that company. You know what I mean?

    We are working on the Toxin (testing.....grrrrrr.............delayed) and also have a 6 inch travel AM bike in our development pipeline but its not going to be anytime soon (ie, not in the next few months).

    I worked at a local shop and have test road a ton of 29rs and every single one felt like a tank and handled slow.
    It sounds like you haven't ridden the right one, or have and haven't given it enough time to adjust your riding style to the different wheel size and dynamics. I've been on a 29er now for years and I don't feel its any less flickable than my 26" XC bikes were. But I'm speaking from a true XC-style riding style. If you like to jump over things though, any XC bike probably wouldn't be right for you; I'd be looking at a dedicated trail 26inch or AM 26inch.

    Jeremy
    Please Note: I no longer work for Airborne. If you have an Airborne question or problem please contact them directly.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyFlyer View Post
    We know that not everyone will be happy with 29ers, but its a big market and something that we feel strongly about; expecially when it comes to XC bikes. It doesn't make sense for us to make a 26inch XC bike at the moment as the market for them is dwindling fast.

    Something to keep in mind is that while we are growing by leaps and bounds, we are still a small company. We can't afford to have 16 irons in the fire at once, working on a ton of SKU's, and rushing things to market. We don't want to be that company. You know what I mean?
    I know exactly what you mean. As a company, I know exactly where you are coming from and I cant fault your logic. I am not the typical rider, so I cant expect a small company to cater to a niche market like the one I fall into. I dont own an airborne bike, but I frequent the airborne forum because I like the way your company does business. I have been hoping for a while that something will pop up that fits my riding style

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyFlyer View Post
    We are working on the Toxin (testing.....grrrrrr.............delayed) and also have a 6 inch travel AM bike in our development pipeline but its not going to be anytime soon (ie, not in the next few months).
    I would be interested in information on the AM bike. Im sure you cant give any info out now, but I will be checking back often for any updates on it



    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyFlyer View Post
    It sounds like you haven't ridden the right one, or have and haven't given it enough time to adjust your riding style to the different wheel size and dynamics. I've been on a 29er now for years and I don't feel its any less flickable than my 26" XC bikes were. But I'm speaking from a true XC-style riding style. If you like to jump over things though, any XC bike probably wouldn't be right for you; I'd be looking at a dedicated trail 26inch or AM 26inch.

    Jeremy
    Its very possible that I havent ridden the right one yet. (been on at least 20 though) My current bike is a 150mm rear 170mm front AM bike, so I really dont have a need for a 160mm+ AM bike. My ideal bike would be a 130-140mm trail bike with a 68ish degree HTA and short chain stays, at or below 30lbs. Im super picky, so its hard to find. Im in no hurry though, My current bike is awesome other than the weight.

  74. #74
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    I would love to see a 26/27.5 full suspension, just something a tad bit more playful

    Edit: I also love to see Airborne succeed soooo do whats best for the company lol

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    For me(and most of the people I ride with) Its not just our height(im 5'8'' also), but our aggressive riding style. I worked at a local shop and have test road a ton of 29rs and every single one felt like a tank and handled slow. They are great for XC riders who like to roll over log piles and rocks and what not, but for me, I like to jump over them and throw my bike around on the trail. I have yet to find a 29r that lets me do it.

    Im not saying I want a 26'' wheeled bike either, I would have been happy with a 650b option with somewhat aggressive geometry. I just cant get behind the 9r movement at this point.

    Im very happy with my current bike, But I built it up to double as my DH bike, so its a tank (36.5 lbs). But I'm looking for a trail bike to take over some of the XC duties. Guess I have to keep looking. (still waiting on the toxin to see what the specs are though)
    I hear you, and I think the market is trying to cover that base (finally).

    I built a Hobgoblin frame up in a quite overbuilt fashion, and while its intended primarily as an XC bike, it's doing well as my general purpose trail bike. I avoid drops over 4 feet with harsh landings and huge doubles/jumps, but for everything else its doing pretty well including medium sized jumps and pretty rough terrain. With the fork and offset hardware, it comes pretty close to the more popular "am" geometry that some 29ers exhibit. But, it does have its limits.

    For more aggressive riding, I do have an appropriate build that I fall back on when I really want to pin it or hammer some tough lines. And it weighs in at about 35 lbs.

    Really looking forward to Airborne's "AM" solution when it comes!
    Cool BandolArrow

    Jerry Hazard – website

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyFlyer View Post
    We are working on the Toxin (testing.....grrrrrr.............delayed) and also have a 6 inch travel AM bike in our development pipeline but its not going to be anytime soon (ie, not in the next few months).
    6 inch travel AM bike, that's what I'm talking about! Can't wait to see what comes out... It will be a great compliment to the Goblin for those who want to get rowdier or hit more technical terrain.

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