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  1. #1
    d11
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    New question here. Wheelset 29er for 90 kg rider.

    Hi guys!

    I`m looking for wheelset for my Scott Genius 940 and want to buy/build some little bit lighter then I have now and also it should be lasting.
    Now stock wheels - Syncros X-23 Rim + Shimano M618 hubs and it`s weight 2.067 kg

    I`m 90 kilos + bike 13.5 kg + clothes and backpack = around 110-115 kg.

    My friend told me about DT Swiss XM 1501 SPLINE but I have read that system weight should be not more then 120kg. Probably these wheels not my choice.

    I also have offer from good mechanic for next build:

    • ZTR Flow EX 29er
    • Novatec (D041SB-15 + D882SB)
    • spokes FireEye
    • nipples Sapim

    But it`s around 2.200 kg

    So, I ride XC/Trail in forrest with jumps and pits, what should I choice ?
    Last edited by d11; 1 Week Ago at 05:06 AM.

  2. #2
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    You don't have a budget listed. If I was looking for wheels that would last, I would go to Industry 9's website and poke around until I found something I liked, and lay down the cash.

  3. #3
    d11
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    Yes, sorry I forgot about budget. Let it be 500$.

    This 2200g build (described above) will cost me around 230$ it`s a really good price but I`m afraid it`s to heavy.

  4. #4
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    My go to wheels right now are Hope Pro 4 hubs, WTB Frequency Team rims, DT Swiss Comp. spokes. But you're still in at around 2000g for the set. You can save 158g going with the KOM rim instead but not sure if they are as strong as the Frequency. I'm far from a wheel guru so I don't know a lot about what else is out there...but I have a feeling you'll have a difficult time finding too many more options for your budget that will stand up to what you are doing and be anywhere close to a $500 budget and lighter than 2000 grams.
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  5. #5
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    I would go with the Stans Flow S1 wheels for $479 (msrp) which are much wider than the flow ex and weight 2134 grams. The Stans Arch S1 also $479 are comparable width to the older Flow ex that you are looking at weigh 1974 grams.

    FWIW I weigh close to 200lbs with a full pack of water and gear and stains arch ex's are holding up just fine for me under moderately aggressive riding.

    Also, I would drop XC from your description. When it comes to wheels, XC is a term best reserved for those under 150lbs. Also jumps and pits are not XC.

    Good luck!

  6. #6
    d11
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    Thanks a lot guys! Need time to think now, but probably I tend to option: going to order wheels on ZTR Flow EX and novatec hubs with steel freehub from my acquainted mechanic.

    Any lighter (less then 2000g) variant - not my choice because they are not lasting enough as I understood.

  7. #7
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    Stay FAR away from the Stans until they prove that they hubs have actually been improved, look to a set of Hope wheels, they should get you a bit lighter, but honestly, where your set has weight is in the hubs themselves, so unless you have some performance issue, spending $$ for a few grams saved at the hubs, might not be a worthwhile effort.

    What's wrong with your current wheels and besides weight, what else are you looking to accomplish with the new set?
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  8. #8
    d11
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Stay FAR away from the Stans until they prove that they hubs have actually been improved, look to a set of Hope wheels, they should get you a bit lighter, but honestly, where your set has weight is in the hubs themselves, so unless you have some performance issue, spending $$ for a few grams saved at the hubs, might not be a worthwhile effort.

    What's wrong with your current wheels and besides weight, what else are you looking to accomplish with the new set?
    I don`t want to buy Stans wheels, only rims. Hubs will be from Novatec.
    Current wheelset I dislike for few reasons:
    -- no tubeless
    -- bearings in hubs
    -- narrow
    -- color =)

  9. #9
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    OK, so weight isn't your biggest concern, that makes things easier, as in what you're looking at wheel wise, getting anything under 1900g will cost you more $$ than you're looking to spend. If it was me, I'd go for the WTB Asym rims, either the i29 or i35 depending on how wide a tyre you're looking to run and since you mentioned colour, I'd look at Hope hubs. I say spend the money one time and be done, get exactly what you want and something you can keep for years to come. FYI, I've built a load of Hope Pro4/Asym i29 wheels and they come in right around 1900g IIRC.

    Quote Originally Posted by d11 View Post
    I don`t want to buy Stans wheels, only rims. Hubs will be from Novatec.
    Current wheelset I dislike for few reasons:
    -- no tubeless
    -- bearings in hubs
    -- narrow
    -- color =)
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by d11 View Post
    I don`t want to buy Stans wheels, only rims. Hubs will be from Novatec.
    Current wheelset I dislike for few reasons:
    -- no tubeless
    -- bearings in hubs
    -- narrow
    -- color =)
    Novatec are junk. Well...maybe they have a higher end line of hubs? But generally...they are cheap OEM hubs that come on lower end bikes and don't seem to hold up to hard riding. You're definitely better off getting something like a Hope or DT Swiss 350. IMO those are the two best bang for the buck hubs on the market. The DT Swiss are cheaper than the Hope but lack in POE so once you upgrade the star ratchet you're at about the same price as a Hope.
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  11. #11
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    Check out Hope Hoops complete wheelsets.

    You can get the XC wheels (20mm internal width) from Chain Reaction Cycles $414 shipped tyd or the Enduro's (23mm internal width) for $445.

    XC's weigh 1740g for the set. Enduro's weigh 2050 grams.

    Best wheelset for the money imho.

    I put a set of XC's on my Epic Comp a few weeks back and have been flogging them daily with excellent results. (I'm 220 lbs/100kg)

  12. #12
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    Wish they were wider. I was looking at the Hope wheelset but the i23 was a deal killer. i29 or i30 would be perfect. I wouldn't even put i20's on my road bike.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    Wish they were wider. I was looking at the Hope wheelset but the i23 was a deal killer. i29 or i30 would be perfect. I wouldn't even put i20's on my road bike.
    Yeah, for those that prefer the ultra-wide rim with tubeless low psi tires then a XC wheel probably isn't the best choice, but the OP stated he currently has 23 id rims and his intended use is XC and trail, thus my recommendations of the Hope XC or Enduro wheels.

    Personally I feel the rim width debates are a bit overblown. The difference in a 23mm and 25mm rim is a mere two pennies thickness. I'd wager most riders wouldn't be able to pick the difference between the two rims on otherwise identical bikes unless they were wanting to run plus size tires.

    The DH and 35W size Hope rims are still dedicated to the 27.5" wheel size as that's where the wide rim/large tire market seems to be.


    Good thing there's plenty of wheel and tire choices for plenty of folks.

  14. #14
    Formerly of Kent
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    I'm 141lbs, regularly taking 3ft drops on my XC bike on XC trails. 28mm front rim, 26mm rear. Wouldn't go narrower.

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  15. #15
    d11
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    Guys, thanks for replies and advice !

    I have done some calculation and compare with current proposition.
    I took weight from site bike-components.de


  16. #16
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    So the Novatec is heavier and IMO will have suspect quality. The DT Swiss will be slightly lighter but have much less POE unless you upgrade. The Hope has the highest POE and is a high quality hub (so is the 350) and only slightly heavier than the DT Swiss but no upgrade needed and you can get blingy with it if you want since Hope offers some nice colors. But even the black and silver are really nice finishes.

    So 100% for my money it would be Hope or DT Swiss with the ratchet upgrade. But Hope for the win for me because higher engagement (44 vs 36 with the upgrade) and a nicer looking hub, IMO.
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  17. #17
    d11
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    You know which doubts I have:

    1. For all wheelsets except Novatec I should by new cassette, so +50$ minimum (ex. XT771), because current cassette only for steel hub.

    2. I also have to change rotors for all current wheelsets if I do not find hub DT swiss 350 on CL, now I have centerlock system, otherwise I have to buy new rotors, so +50 $ for rotors (ex: RT76).

    3. Now difference between wheelsets in gramm:

    • Novatec - (Hope pro4 + WTB I25) = 138 g - not bad
    • Novatec - (Hope pro4 + WTB I30) = 84 g - for me no reason for spend money for such build.
    • Novatec - (Hope pro4 + DT Swiss EX 471) = 250 g - huge difference, but I`m not sure about quality of these rims.


    Calculation built price:

    Novatec ~ 230 $ (can be built in 1 day and until end of this week will be on my bike)

    Hope pro4 hubs = aprox. 200 euros or 239.29 $
    +
    WTB I25 or DT Swiss EX 471 rims = 160 $ or 150 $

    It`s already aprox. 400 $ on DT 350 will be +/- the same.
    +
    Spokes + nipples = ....

    Let`s summarize
    1. Builds on Hope Pro 4/DT 350 are they worth it? I mean they will be in 2 times expensive .
    2. My build on Novatec D041SB-15 + D882SB and ZTR Flow EX is it really awful or what ?

    If I`m not mistaken all comrads here dislike Novatec because it`s a cheap OEM brand, but there is the same bearings and 1 year warranty in my country.

    I understand we like our hobby and I can spend 500$ and even more for my 'toys' but is it possible to see diff.between 230 and 500 dollars wheelset if it`s only 150 - 200 g lighter ?
    Anyway it will be the same 2 kilos

  18. #18
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    Your proposed build would not be awful. My bike came with Novatec hubs an not problems so far. The risk as I see it is if you break the freehub often. That being said they won't be much different than the wheels that came with the bike.

  19. #19
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    What do you mean only for steel hub? If it's a Shimano cassette you should be able to use it on any hub that has a Shimano free hub body.

    Rotors...yeah...right now Hope only has 6 bolt on their mountain bike hubs. They do have center lock on their road hubs though so I assume that will make it's way to mtb hubs too...but that doesn't do you any good right now.

    I assume you have to pay VAT? Because I can get Hope hubs for $170 for the rear and $70 for the front if I order them from Germany and ship to the US. No VAT for me.

    Worth it...yes. Without a doubt. I don't spend the extra money for weight savings. I spend it for peace of mind knowing I have a MUCH less chance of hub failure running a high quality hub over a house brand hub. My Release 3 has Novatec/Joytech hubs. They seem to have decent engagement. But I know it's just a matter of when, not if...they will break. There's already quite a few people with my same bike with hub failures. That's why as soon as I have the extra money I'll be either upgrading the hub or building a new wheelset using Hope hubs.

    Novatec...not a good rep. since they are commonly used as OEM no brand or house brand hubs and just don't hold up well. Like I said above...perhaps they have a higher end line that competes with the likes of Hope or DT Swiss? I'm just not aware and not something I've ever looked into. I'm beyond happy with the Hope hubs I'm currently running on two bikes and plan to run on the third. I personally have no reason to look at anything else because they do everything and more that I need them to do.
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  20. #20
    d11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    What do you mean only for steel hub? If it's a Shimano cassette you should be able to use it on any hub that has a Shimano free hub body.
    No, if I use cassette Shimano CS-HG50-10 on any aluminium hub as result will be beautiful picture
    Wheelset 29er for 90 kg rider.-17267558_1714704712160925_5196027438718517248_n.jpg
    I live in Ukraine and I will not pay VAT, but my price in previous post was correct (already added shipping cost).

    I got your point, thanks !

  21. #21
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    OK, so I get what you're saying in terms of the cassette gouging the alu freehub, but you could check the sites and see if they'll swap the freehub for Hope's stainless steel option for maybe a bit more. Alternately, you could buy the XT cassette which will help to solve that problem, but also it will help drop weight, quite a lot actually from the very lowest end cassettes, like 100-250g.

    Also, Hope hubs are known to last and give long live, so while you pay more initially, in the end it ends up costing less because of less maintenance and in having to replace an out of warranty, broken hub.

    As to the rims, I'd go either WTB Asym i29 $71.50 or Frequency i29 $61. They're almost the same weight, Asym is a bit heavier and I'd go that route (they're what I do actually use for my own bike and many others I've built) as they'll build an almost dishless wheel, which will be stronger.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    OK, so I get what you're saying in terms of the cassette gouging the alu freehub, but you could check the sites and see if they'll swap the freehub for Hope's stainless steel option for maybe a bit more. Alternately, you could buy the XT cassette which will help to solve that problem, but also it will help drop weight, quite a lot actually from the very lowest end cassettes, like 100-250g.
    Hope offers the steel free hub at no extra charge if you buy it that way. Of course if you order the aluminum one and then "upgrade" it to steel...I think it's like $65 for the steel free hub. Or like you said...get a cassette with an aluminum carrier and reduce or eliminate the gouges.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by d11 View Post
    I live in Ukraine and I will not pay VAT, but my price in previous post was correct (already added shipping cost).

    I got your point, thanks !
    Then you need to find a new place to order from. Bike24 has the Pro4 rear hub for
    142,02 € before shipping. Shipping to the US is only 20€ so I can't imagine it being any more than that...probably less to the Ukraine.
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  24. #24
    d11
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    OK, so I get what you're saying in terms of the cassette gouging the alu freehub, but you could check the sites and see if they'll swap the freehub for Hope's stainless steel option for maybe a bit more. Alternately, you could buy the XT cassette which will help to solve that problem, but also it will help drop weight, quite a lot actually from the very lowest end cassettes, like 100-250g.
    Probably you don`t read what I described at all =)

    Why I should spend more 50$ for new cassettes if I`m hapy with current, second point even XT cassette give me minus 30g (already checked), really 30g for 50$ ?

  25. #25
    d11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    Then you need to find a new place to order from. Bike24 has the Pro4 rear hub for
    142,02 € before shipping. Shipping to the US is only 20€ so I can't imagine it being any more than that...probably less to the Ukraine.
    Probably better will be DT 350 on centerlock

    Unfortunately front only for 28 holes, so need to choose new rim for 32+28 holes.

  26. #26
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    Ok...then order a Hope with the steel free body for no extra cost. Problem solved.
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  27. #27
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    You don't have to pay for a name brand front hub if you are looking to shave some cost...

    If I were you I would stick with your stock wheels for now, otherwise I would go for the handbuilt novetec for $230 out the door. You can buy 4 extra freehubs if you need them. I have an off brand Asian hub similar to the novatec that I used for 5 years. Broke one freehub doing something stupid that would brake most freehubs (including hope). The new freehub cost me $40. I could buy 3 more and still be ahead of the game. Not everybody has $600+ to spend on wheels.

    I am not saying the DT 350 and Hopes are not better than the Novatec, but they also cost twice as much. Never heard anything bad about DT Swiss, Hopes have a few more issues but are also nice. The fact that the wheels are hand built is more important than the hubs anyway in my book.

  28. #28
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    Just buy the better cassette. You're asking for lighter wheels but insisting on a steel freehub. You can't have both

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by d11 View Post
    Probably better will be DT 350 on centerlock

    Unfortunately front only for 28 holes, so need to choose new rim for 32+28 holes.
    But...that only has 18poe which will SUCK. You need to also get the 36poe star ratchet upgrade which increases the price to about the same as the Hope which is already 44poe. But...even with the increased price it will save you from having to buy new brake rotors. But for me, 28h would be a deal killer but I weight a lot more than you so fewer spokes is an issue for me.
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  30. #30
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    Bike Hub Store Bitex hubs seem to be getting good reviews if you search for some threads on the forums. They're cheap, have good engagement and the freehub body has steel inserts on the splines to keep them from getting chewed up (but still lightweight).

    http://www.bikehubstore.com/product-p/bx106r.htm


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  31. #31
    d11
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    Thanks, but I`m waiting now new price from local retailer for components.
    So, wheelset is going to be change:
    -- ZTR Arch MK3 29"
    -- front hub Stans
    -- rear hub novatec D882SB
    -- nipples aluminium
    -- spokes 2.0-1.8-2.0
    Summary ~1920 g

  32. #32
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    This sounds like a good choice. i have never seen an advantage to go I9 or Hope for the extra cost. they are even more $$ then DT Swiss which offer better reliability and weight.

    I have had good luck with the novatec fat bike hubs and i am about 110kg. they also do make a steel free hub body if you are concerned.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jefflinde View Post
    This sounds like a good choice. i have never seen an advantage to go I9 or Hope for the extra cost. they are even more $$ then DT Swiss which offer better reliability and weight.

    I have had good luck with the novatec fat bike hubs and i am about 110kg. they also do make a steel free hub body if you are concerned.
    You act like Hope hubs are pricey. To even have them in the same sentence with I9 when talking about price is silly. I9 are stupid expensive. Hopes are like $170. Less than half the price of an I9. And DT Swiss with 18 poe is cheaper but terrible engagement and once you upgrade the star ratchet they are the same price as Hope. The advantage of spending the extra money is getting something good vs getting junk.
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  34. #34
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    So when your Novatec hubs fails, are you going to start a thread complaining about them?

    You want the honest truth- stay with your stock wheels and save up until you can afford some nice wheels and lose a ton of weight in the best place to lose it.

    https://www.lightbicycle.com/Hand-built-All-Mountain-Cross-country-carbon-29er-MTB-wheelset-30mm-wide-tubeless-compatible.html 1700g for $815.

    So you can spend $500 for the same crap you have now or save up a little more and get a much better wheelset.
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  35. #35
    d11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jefflinde View Post
    they also do make a steel free hub body if you are concerned.
    Yes I`m interested in it and rear hub will be with steel freehub and steel axis.

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    So when your Novatec hubs fails, are you going to start a thread complaining about them?
    No, maybe I will post a few photos but I didn`t hear such bad news. I could hear such a crazy opinion only from guys who like hope pro4 or swiss I can read about fails others hubs.
    Show me please negative feedback or photos with broken hubs.


    <1700g for $815.>
    Seriously ? I would buy almost 3 wheelsets as I mentioned before but with different colors of hubs and different rims =)

  36. #36
    d11
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    It`s a brilliant recommendation about 815$, let me check...
    Weight limit = 120kg, nice, I told that my weight + bike + clothes = 110-115.
    Price $1096.00

    Or change hubs and will be 891$ and the same weight limit.


    Sorry guys, but it seems like you don`t read at all this topic and don`t know my weight and tried to give advice.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by d11 View Post
    It`s a brilliant recommendation about 815$, let me check...
    Weight limit = 120kg, nice, I told that my weight + bike + clothes = 110-115.
    Price $1096.00

    Or change hubs and will be 891$ and the same weight limit.


    Sorry guys, but it seems like you don`t read at all this topic and don`t know my weight and tried to give advice.
    Sorry that you don't know much about wheels. YOU opened by saying your weight was about 110-115kg.

    These wheels aren't going to magically explode if you go over 120kg. I weigh around 96kg to start without any gear I have have a wheelset built with those rims.
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  38. #38
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    LB has an enduro rim option with a higher weight limit. That being said these wheels are almost 4x the price of your orignal wheel proposal.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by c_trail_biker View Post
    LB has an enduro rim option with a higher weight limit. That being said these wheels are almost 4x the price of your orignal wheel proposal.
    He said his budget was $500. Again IMHO, if you have a budget of $500, you'd be much better off saving a little more and going with something similar to the wheels I linked vs going a little cheaper and replace cheap wheels with cheap wheels.
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  40. #40
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    I don't disagree with your premise, that stretching the budget can result in a better wheelset. But then again it depends on the rider, some people do just fine on cheaper wheel sets and receive little benefit from shelling out a bunch of cash.

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