• 06-20-2012
    L4NE4
    1 Attachment(s)
    Sun Ringle BlackFlag Pro/Expert VS. Charger Pro/Expert
    I will be upgrading the wheelset on my 29er very soon. I am looking to save a lot of weight with this new wheelset which should not be hard because I am currently running stock GT wheels. I am looking the most at Sun Ringle mainly because those are what I get can get the best deal on. My biggest question is; Are the Pros worth the extra money over the Experts (in either wheelset)?

    Numbers From Sun are attached (I threw the comps in there as well).

    If you look at the numbers, the only difference between the Pros and the Experts are the Bearings and the weights. Would "premium" sealed bearings really save that much weight?

    Does anyone have real world weights?
  • 07-04-2012
    thechez
    I would think that the difference is in the hubs and the rim(possibly). From what I hear the hub is a different model between the comps and the pro. I have a set of the 26" Black Flag Pros and love them. Good friend has the 29 BFP and says they roll so fast he has to check the brakes often to slw his bike down. Great deal on wheels. Can't be beat.
  • 07-04-2012
    Ronnie
    I own a set of Charger Pro wheels. It is my impression that the hubs are the same on the Pro models, Charger and the Black Flag. According to SUN the weight difference for 29" wheel sets is 125g. (1725g. and 1850g.) The difference is in the weight and width of the rims. The Black Flag is 24mm. and is listed as XC. The Charger is 28mm. and is billed for AM/trail use.
  • 07-04-2012
    thechez
    He was noticing the difference between the Expert and the Pro models. The hubs are different between the models, not the rims. There's a difference in width and weight between the rims on the Black Flag and Charger models.
  • 07-05-2012
    jeffw-13
    Another thumbs up for the Pro model hubs. They spin for days.
  • 07-05-2012
    joe_bloe
    My understanding is, the main difference between Pro and Expert is alloy freehub vs. steel freehub. You may need to upgrade your cassette to work with the alloy freehub.
  • 07-05-2012
    L4NE4
    Thanks for the responses, their chart doesnt really tell much.

    I ended up with a Hope/Arch setup in the rear with stock wheel upfront. I figured I would try this setup and if I dont like it I can sell it to get the sun's. So far I like it, and I think my complete hope/arch set will weigh less then either the charger of BF's.
  • 07-07-2012
    gfs69
    I weighed my set of Charger Pro's, which I bought last January, (the current ones should probably be the same I suppose) and they came in at 1900 grams with the yellow tape, and without skewers. Great wheel by the way.
  • 07-07-2012
    JSumner13
    I see you've already chosen a different set of wheels (nice choice by the way) but I figured I'd share my experience with my Sun Ringles in case other people click this thread and are interested in the wheels. I've been racing all season in New England on a pair of Black Flag Pro 29s and haven't had to true these wheels once. For what it's worth I weight in the high 150's though.....this may not be the case for a heavier rider. As other folks have mentioned, the hubs really do spin forever and haven't given me any issues in the 7 months I've had them. When changing tires for the first time (tubeless) I noticed that the stock yellow tape had ripped on each wheel. I re-taped the wheels and haven't had any issues yet. I'm guessing it was a bad install from the factory. I've run Ikons, Ignitors, X-kings and rampages on these rims so far; all tubeless and all aired up without any problems with a floor pump. They're a nice weight as well.....on par the mavic crossmax. Anyways, a great set of wheels for a great price. I think I paid less than 400 for them.
  • 07-07-2012
    broeli
    I love my black flag pros but am disappointed with their durability. I weigh 195 and have had stuff break 3 times. The first thing was breaking a rear axle. Then a rear spoke broke at the nipple, then a front spoke broke at the nipple. I've also had to true the rear wheel several times. I am not an abusive rider either. Mostly fast xc riding and racing is all they go through.
    If I have anymore issues I may try to push the issue with Sun and see about replacement Charger Pros. When I got the black flag pros I called sun ringle and asked if there was a weight limit. I was assured by them they were plenty durable for my weight. They said they had an employee there that is 250lbs that uses them and has never had any issues. Maybe I just got a bad set..who knows. Btw, they are still under warraty ...less than a year old. Sun ringle has been good about replacing all the broken parts..but I've still had to pay the lbs labor costs for the repairs.
  • 07-07-2012
    Zakman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JSumner13 View Post
    I see you've already chosen a different set of wheels (nice choice by the way) but I figured I'd share my experience with my Sun Ringles in case other people click this thread and are interested in the wheels. I've been racing all season in New England on a pair of Black Flag Pro 29s and haven't had to true these wheels once. For what it's worth I weight in the high 150's though.....this may not be the case for a heavier rider. As other folks have mentioned, the hubs really do spin forever and haven't given me any issues in the 7 months I've had them. When changing tires for the first time (tubeless) I noticed that the stock yellow tape had ripped on each wheel. I re-taped the wheels and haven't had any issues yet. I'm guessing it was a bad install from the factory. I've run Ikons, Ignitors, X-kings and rampages on these rims so far; all tubeless and all aired up without any problems with a floor pump. They're a nice weight as well.....on par the mavic crossmax. Anyways, a great set of wheels for a great price. I think I paid less than 400 for them.

    Where did you get Black Flag Pros from for less than $400?
  • 07-07-2012
    GChambers
    I have a set of Charger Experts on my DiSSent. Great wheels. The front spokes are talking to me a little bit and making some pinging noises since the last time I cleaned the wheels but otherwise they have been completely trouble free. I'm about 225 geared up and I ride them pretty hard. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another set.
  • 07-08-2012
    Zakman
    Anyone know if the 15/20mm front wheel is also convertible to 9mm QR with an adapter or do you have to buy the QR specific wheels?
  • 07-08-2012
    thechez
    The front is convertible on the pros of both the Black Flag and Charger to 9mm. They include 9mm(how they come set up), 15mm and 20mm.
  • 07-08-2012
    kevrider
    i was thinking about black flag pros for my new frame, but was concerned about the width. what's the widest tire you guys have successfully run on the black flag?

    the frame is a salsa fargo, and there might be some bikepacking. i weigh 155#, hopefully the load will not be an issue.
  • 07-08-2012
    Zakman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by thechez View Post
    The front is convertible on the pros of both the Black Flag and Charger to 9mm. They include 9mm(how they come set up), 15mm and 20mm.

    Thanks. I forgot to mention that I am looking at the experts. This is what the Sun Ringle web site says about the experts:

    Quick Release Front Specific; or 15mm / 20mm convertible Front
    (both end caps included)
    (Note: Front QR specific is not convertible to 15mm/20mm)

    For the Pros it says:

    Quick Release, QR15, 20mm Thru-Axle Front Axle Options
    (All end caps included)

    I have an e-mail into their tech support but I was wondering if anyone here knew while I wait for the official response.
  • 07-08-2012
    weeksy950
    I found the Black flag Pros weights were VERY optimistic on Sun Ringles website. They were about 75gr lighter per wheel than my standard Giant wheels.

    They were also VERY hard to get tyres on.
  • 07-09-2012
    Ronnie
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by weeksy950 View Post
    I found the Black flag Pros weights were VERY optimistic on Sun Ringles website. They were about 75gr lighter per wheel than my standard Giant wheels.

    They were also VERY hard to get tyres on.

    So then why don't you post the actual weights. Also did you weigh them with or without QR skewers?

    Black Flag and Charger wheels are tubeless and designed with No-Tubes BST technology. It is well known that some tyres are difficult to get onto Stan's rims. It is not very helpful making sweeping statements. Rather tell us which tyres you found difficult to install. I can get most of the tyres I've used on and off by hand.
  • 07-09-2012
    broeli
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by weeksy950 View Post
    I found the Black flag Pros weights were VERY optimistic on Sun Ringles website. They were about 75gr lighter per wheel than my standard Giant wheels.

    They were also VERY hard to get tyres on.

    The weight of them is accurate. They are a nice light wheel.
    I've never had a problem getting any tires on them either. With an air compressor they go on and seal quickly and easily.
  • 07-09-2012
    Zakman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Zakman View Post
    Thanks. I forgot to mention that I am looking at the experts. This is what the Sun Ringle web site says about the experts:

    Quick Release Front Specific; or 15mm / 20mm convertible Front
    (both end caps included)
    (Note: Front QR specific is not convertible to 15mm/20mm)

    For the Pros it says:

    Quick Release, QR15, 20mm Thru-Axle Front Axle Options
    (All end caps included)

    I have an e-mail into their tech support but I was wondering if anyone here knew while I wait for the official response.

    I got my answer. For the experts you need to special order part: ED2FCAPQR. They said you have to go through your LBS and it should be about $20.

    For anyone that is interested Jenson USA has the Black Flag Expert 15/20mm for $299.99. With the coupon code 25off200 you can get them for $274.99.
  • 07-09-2012
    pelts79
    I'm around 150 lbs and run 2.3 WTB Exiwolfs without issues on the BFP.
  • 07-09-2012
    weeksy950
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by broeli View Post
    The weight of them is accurate. They are a nice light wheel.
    I've never had a problem getting any tires on them either. With an air compressor they go on and seal quickly and easily.

    Remind me to carry one of them in my Camelbak next ride out.
  • 07-09-2012
    weeksy950
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
    So then why don't you post the actual weights. Also did you weigh them with or without QR skewers?

    Black Flag and Charger wheels are tubeless and designed with No-Tubes BST technology. It is well known that some tyres are difficult to get onto Stan's rims. It is not very helpful making sweeping statements. Rather tell us which tyres you found difficult to install. I can get most of the tyres I've used on and off by hand.

    I did once upon a time post the figures, i'll have a look through my old posts later, but it was on a Sun Ringle thread about 5-6 months ago. I posted this first comment when at work so never really had time to get all my old posts up, but i will.


    The tyres i found impossible were Bonty Mud-x's. They're a tight fit on my Giant rims, but impossible on the S-R's.

    I also get the impression from other places that my technique installing tyres may have been lacking :)
  • 07-09-2012
    broeli
    [QUOTE=weeksy950;9483658]Remind me to carry one of them in my Camelbak next ride out.[/]

    If you had trouble getting tubed tires mounted on these rims then you are definitely lacking technique on installing tires. Mine are mounted tubeless...that's why I use an air compressor. If a get a cut that the stans can't seal it is no problem popping the tire off and putting in a tube...and it wouldn't need an air compressor.
    Also, even doing tubeless doesn't require an air compressor on these rims. In a pinch I've mounted up a tire tubeless on these wheels with just a co2 cartridge.
  • 07-09-2012
    weeksy950
    Apologies, i only kept the figures in a relative context to the Giant wheels.

    They came in at 250gr per wheel lighter than the Giants when all said and done.

    (Honestly, i recall them figures being more than the manufacturers weights though)