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  1. #1
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    Stans Arch EX, Flow, or Sun-Ringle Black Flag Pro?

    I am a clyde - 6'3" and 230# geared up; I am "skinny" at the end of the summer at 210#, purely XC rider.

    Arch EXs have a max recommended rider weight of 230#, so I would be at the limit at my current weight. Should I go with them or the Flows, which have a max weight of 250#.?

    Then there is the Sun-Ringle Blag Flag Pro's - they come with QR, 15mm, and 20mm adapters for the front hub (future proof), have straight-pull spokes (ZTRs are j-bend), but only have 28 spokes where the Stans have 32 each - a plus for bigger guys like me.

    The Black Flags are a little cheaper (~$100) than the Stans, but the Stans have better street cred, so I could resell them easier if I ever wanted to.

    Thoughts?

    PS/Edit: I am riding an old set of WTB Laserdisc Trail 29 rims now, if that factors in - no issues
    Mind your own religion.

  2. #2
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    Sun Ringle makes the Stans rims, and Chosen makes both the Sun Ringle and Stans hubs so almost all is equal. The Black Flag is more like the Arch than Arch EX rim with the original BST bead shape. The Chargers are the equivalent to the Flows.

    The 28 spokes really aren't an issue, they're plenty strong (other system wheels often have less). That said the stock Stans front hub is convertible to 15mm while the HD is actually convertible to all the axle sizes (comes stock 20mm, have to buy reducing end caps). The Arch EX is best with converting regular tube type tires to tubeless while the Arch, Flow, and Black Flag rims using the older BST design work better with tubeless ready tires that are often extremely tight on the Arch EX and Crest rims with the newer BST design.

    So I guess it really depends on what type of tires you plan to run. I don't think the Stans rims have anymore street cred than the Sun Ringle wheels since the rims and hubs are from the same manufacturers.

  3. #3
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    Hi mtnbiker72, are the Chargers rear hubs able to convert to 135mm x 10mm bolt on hubs? I've email Sun, but no reply yet. The reason for this is as I want to run SS with the rear wheel on a sliding drop out frame.

    PoisonDartFrog, check out the link below.

    Universal Cycles -- SunRingle AM Charger Comp 29" Wheelset
    Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarPigs View Post
    Hi mtnbiker72, are the Chargers rear hubs able to convert to 135mm x 10mm bolt on hubs? I've email Sun, but no reply yet. The reason for this is as I want to run SS with the rear wheel on a sliding drop out frame.
    The Charger Pro is convertible to 135mm x 12mm, you can then use a step down bolt on axle like the Azonic

    The Expert and Comps are not convertible.

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the tip on the Azonic axle, I do have the stock drop outs which is a 142mm x 12mm. Looks like Hope Pro2 Evo is the only way for me. now if only I can score some camo rims without shipping killing me.
    Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

  6. #6
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    I'm keen to know about the ZTR Arch EX rims being ok for a 220 pound rider also.
    It would be built using:
    Hope Pro 2 EVO hubs Front/Rear
    Straight Spokes
    Brass Nipples.

    I don't do DH or big jumps - just small ones off bumps in the track.

    Would it be strong enough?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarPigs View Post
    Thanks for the tip on the Azonic axle, I do have the stock drop outs which is a 142mm x 12mm. Looks like Hope Pro2 Evo is the only way for me. now if only I can score some camo rims without shipping killing me.
    The Pro also converts to 142mm x 12mm

  8. #8
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    I'm in the same boat, 6'2 220 geared up, I went with the Black Flag Pros from modenbike, the price was right 550 shipped.

    I got to ride a set the past weekend and I liked them, But take my opinion as an opinion i just ride =D

  9. #9
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    If you are concerned about the weigh limit, can always go with the Flow's as they have a higher weight limit. Honestly though, I have the Arch ex's on XTR hubs and they feel amazing, I am 200lbs all geared up though.

  10. #10
    The White Jeff W
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    I have a Flow/Hope hub wheelset and a Black Flag Pro wheelset. I cant tell the difference when Im riding except that the Black Flag set rolls easier but that probably has more to do with tires than wheels (2.4 Purgatory on the Flows/Racing Ralphs on the Black Flags) Apples to apples check out the Sun Ringle Chargers to compare to Flows.

    For the record I weigh about 200lbs geared up
    No moss...

  11. #11
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    My understanding is that the Black Flag's are more comparable to the Crest than the Arch. I would look at the Charger Pro instead.

  12. #12
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    Yeah I read a bike review saying the Black Flags were flexy for heavier riders due to the 28-spoke config.
    Mind your own religion.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoisonDartFrog View Post
    Yeah I read a bike review saying the Black Flags were flexy for heavier riders due to the 28-spoke config.
    Can you provide the url for the review?

  14. #14
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    I recently had a bit of an eye opener regarding spoke count. I'm a heavier rider at about 220lbs. When I first changed to a 29" bike (an AM hardtail), I had a really strong wheelset built. They are Stan's Flow rims on Shimano Saint hubs with 36 spokes. This summer I bought a new fork with a QR15, on which I could not use my 20mm. Saint hub. I managed to get a SUN Ringlé Charger Pro wheelset at a good price. I was a bit nervous about the 28 spoke count but honestly I don't notice it while riding. I do notice that the wheels are lighter when I pick up the bike.

    Before I bought the Charger Pro set, I spoke to a local wheel builder who has a very good reputation about the 28 spoke count. He commented that the straight pull spokes result in a very stiff wheel and I shouldn't worry about it.

    I also fitted the 135×12 REAR CONVERSION AXLE for the small cost of about $30. I have sworn off standard QR axles. This converts the rear 10mm. dropout into a bolt on.

    "PoisonDartFrog" If you are considering the Flow wheels you really need to compare them to the Charger Pro. They both have 28mm. width rims, made by SUN Ringlé. The Charger is only 125g. heavier than the Black Flag wheelset. It is my impression that the Black Flag is more of a race wheelset.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  15. #15
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    If you're concerned about your weight and the strength of your wheels I wouldn't consider 28 spokes.

    FWIW I'm 210 lbs and ride Arches. Actually two sets - one laced to Shimano Hubs (ugh) and another to King hubs (win!). I have about 2000 miles on the Shimano set and about 100 on the King set (they is brand new).
    :wq

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by lurkingfear View Post
    My understanding is that the Black Flag's are more comparable to the Crest than the Arch. I would look at the Charger Pro instead.
    No where close to the Crest...not near as light and much stronger. It's basically the Arch (not Arch EX).

  17. #17
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    I'm sitting right around 225 with the Stan's Arch EX's and haven't had any problems, though I am under. I'm sure you wouldn't have any problems with either the EX's or the Flows if you went Stan's.

  18. #18
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    on the subject of the Arch EX, I have a set and I'm around 220 pounds and so far I can't find any flex in them.

    But I am trying to find a tire that I don't have to bust my ass putting on. I'm using The Captain Control front and rear. What would be a good substitute, I've been recommended a Racing Ralph but after research it looks like it really is only for a racing day tire. I want a tire I can run all year round. No mud just hard pack, plenty of roots and a bit of sand over hard pack.

  19. #19
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    Hi may I suggest you get either of the stans rims and lace it to a hope hub or other reasonable hub of your choice because I bought a stans flow stock wheelset and the stans 142mm hub failed within 2 months.

    Stans makes a great rim and so does sun ringle, you could also try the sun wheelset. I know a rider around your weight who rides AM on an old stans 355 rim he had build a few years ago and apart from replacing some of the wheel components the wheelset has never failed on the trail.
    Pivot mach 6!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaupoRider View Post
    on the subject of the Arch EX, I have a set and I'm around 220 pounds and so far I can't find any flex in them.

    But I am trying to find a tire that I don't have to bust my ass putting on. I'm using The Captain Control front and rear. What would be a good substitute, I've been recommended a Racing Ralph but after research it looks like it really is only for a racing day tire. I want a tire I can run all year round. No mud just hard pack, plenty of roots and a bit of sand over hard pack.
    you should try the racing ralphs! they're really fast! and not just for race day by any means!.. converted my super narrow heavy and flexy oe bontragers (11 Trek X-cal) to tubeless with these and they just fly on the West Michigan hard-pack! only burped once (turned while between two rocks like a lever) and hit many sharp 2" roots sticking up in the sidewall with large popping sounds that i was sure ended my tire.. Nope!.. also they make Snakeskin model that's slightly heavier and has stiffer thicker sidewall (29x2.25 racing ralph TL ready) .. think im about to pull the trigger on some Arch EX on pricepoint for $433 shipped! wanted white but for this price BTW- Im 205 w/o gear and like to ride xc trails aggressively - my back stock back wheel is constantly bent.. lol

  21. #21
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    I'm a lightweight but I ride nasty, rocky trails and my ArchEX's are still fine after about 1000 miles of abuse. I jump em too.

  22. #22
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    Pulled the trigger on the factory built Arch Ex's on price point for $433 shipped! They were a great price + free ship and then got 10% off because out of stock.. 12" of snow in Michigan so no hurry. ;-) should be a great upgrade from my flexy and bent 18mm width bontragers!

  23. #23
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    I'm on factory Flow EX... you can run fat tires no problem, and not an mm of flex under me. Unless your racing no need to the uber lightweight stuff.

  24. #24
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    I weigh 220lbs and I've been on a set of Stans Flow EX on a hard tail for about four months. I ride them pretty hard and I have not felt any flex. I am very happy with them. I have tried many other rims, Easton, Mavic, DT Swiss, Sun Ringle.I like the Stans alot. I would recommend the Flow EX!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcg611 View Post
    Pulled the trigger on the factory built Arch Ex's on price point for $433 shipped! They were a great price + free ship and then got 10% off because out of stock.. 12" of snow in Michigan so no hurry. ;-) should be a great upgrade from my flexy and bent 18mm width bontragers!
    How did they come from pricepoint? With the TA or QR?

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