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  1. #1
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    Sram's New XX1 Group

    What is everyones response to the new XX1 Group and idea of 1X11 as a whole?

    At first I did the ol eye roll too .. but after punching some of the gearings into my calculator I began to think it might be something Im looking forward to...

    I pretty much ride exclusively 29ers these days, and for me the 10X42 cassette might work perfect with a 28/30 tooth single up front. I currently run 26 low and 36 high with a 11/36 cassette and rarely use my top end...

    I wouldn't mind sacrificing a little tiny bit of top end to keep the extra weight off, extra shifting out and simplicity of a 1x11
    Last edited by Ace5high; 07-29-2012 at 03:27 PM.
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  2. #2
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    I'm sure that I will give it a go, I think it will be bang on 95% of the time & I will just have to harden up for the rest.
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  3. #3
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    I don't like the idea of having a special hub...
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor69PRS View Post
    I don't like the idea of having a special hub...
    It is not the whole hub, just the freehub body. Will work with any DT Swiss star ratchet hub.

  5. #5
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    I'm taking a wait-and-see regarding chain management issues. If you make the chain long enough for the 42, won't it be flopping all over the place when you are in the 10? And if you add a chain guide would it hinder the shifting?

    I'm currently loving 1x9. but if I can get 2 more gears all else being equal I'd take it in a heartbeat!

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  6. #6
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    I don't think it is a problem, Emily Batty raced on it at the last WC race.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinning Lizard View Post
    It is not the whole hub, just the freehub body. Will work with any DT Swiss star ratchet hub.
    Good to know! I also thought that you had to use the SRAM hub, and was wanting to stick with DT240s hubs.

    I do like the idea of it, and I'm definitely considering it for the Air 9 RDO that I'm getting started on! The cost may (or may not) sway my decision.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    I'm taking a wait-and-see regarding chain management issues. If you make the chain long enough for the 42, won't it be flopping all over the place when you are in the 10? And if you add a chain guide would it hinder the shifting?
    I got one word for you, Type 2 rear derailleur



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  9. #9
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    Looks like an great set-up to me. I'm selling my blood now and putting the money away in a Christmas fund for this group...Only 127 more quarts and I'll be ready.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post
    I'm sure that I will give it a go, I think it will be bang on 95% of the time & I will just have to harden up for the rest.
    At least until you decide youve hardened up you can change the front cog without a lot of trouble just slides strainght over the arm and pedal.

    From what ive read, price is somewhere in the ballpark of $1200 and the clutch rear deraillieur plus some new movement system solves the chainflop.

    I would give it a go if i knew what the ratios equated to compared to a 22/36 or a 24/39 2 x 10 system.

  11. #11
    RTM
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    Quote Originally Posted by mopartodd View Post
    Looks like an great set-up to me. I'm selling my blood now and putting the money away in a Christmas fund for this group...Only 127 more quarts and I'll be ready.
    great point. I tend to get overly excited until the price reels me back in.

    "wow, I'm all over that!" quickly turns to, "wow, this old stuff is fine."

  12. #12
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    I think SRAM made a big mistake by requiring a special freehub simply for the sake of having a 10 tooth cog. They could (should) have made a 10 speed cassette, 11x42 and been done. Maybe Shimano will do it right.....

  13. #13
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    The special freehub body turns me off of it. Their cassette will be stupid expensive also. Otherwise I would like it. I love my 1x9.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toff View Post
    The special freehub body turns me off of it. Their cassette will be stupid expensive also. Otherwise I would like it. I love my 1x9.
    I agree with this. Perhaps we will see a "X01" model in 11-42 that fits a standard freehub body. Racing with 34x11-36 now, I would be absolutely thrilled to have that gear range.

    It should go without saying that not everyone has DT Swiss or SRAM rear hubs. I have Industry 9 wheels and also a wheelset with ZTR hubs. I'd love to hear them announce their XX1-compatible freehub bodies, but I haven't heard that from them or any other of the many companies out there that make rear hubs.

  15. #15
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    I have x9 hubs so I guess I could give it a try. But that cassette is going to be like $400 and I bet the chain will be over $100. That's just too much money for stuff that I will replace twice a season. I really hope this trickles down to less expensive parts.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssalmons View Post
    I think SRAM made a big mistake by requiring a special freehub simply for the sake of having a 10 tooth cog. They could (should) have made a 10 speed cassette, 11x42 and been done. Maybe Shimano will do it right.....
    Amen! Love the overall concept, but just don't understand the need to go through with what it took to get the 10T. I run 1x9 34T-11/32T and 1X10 32T-11/34T and can count on 1 hand how many times I ever even use the 11T. I'll be curious how compatible (or incompatible) the chain will be with any cassette other than this XX1 10/42T. Not hopeful on that though.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwitte View Post
    Amen! Love the overall concept, but just don't understand the need to go through with what it took to get the 10T. I run 1x9 34T-11/32T and 1X10 32T-11/34T and can count on 1 hand how many times I ever even use the 11T. I'll be curious how compatible (or incompatible) the chain will be with any cassette other than this XX1 10/42T. Not hopeful on that though.
    Its a special chain that designed narrower that normal chains and i suppose its designed exclusively to run on the front Crank due to the longer tooth length of crank

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssalmons View Post
    I think SRAM made a big mistake by requiring a special freehub simply for the sake of having a 10 tooth cog. They could (should) have made a 10 speed cassette, 11x42 and been done. Maybe Shimano will do it right.....
    Agreed, I never even use my 11T on the 26er.

  19. #19
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    i run 1x10, 33 up front and 11-36 out back. around here i can scoot up most anything, and if i cant, well screw it. walking is ok too.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssalmons View Post
    I think SRAM made a big mistake by requiring a special freehub simply for the sake of having a 10 tooth cog. They could (should) have made a 10 speed cassette, 11x42 and been done. Maybe Shimano will do it right.....
    I think you might be missing the point. From what I understand about the group Sram wants it to be used for every thing from down hill to world cup XC racers to every day riders. XC racers will want the 10 and as well as the 42.

  21. #21
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    wc dh riders already use a single ring and a close ratio road cassette so that is happening...

  22. #22
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    my thoughts as well

    i've been entertaining losing the front derailleur, shifter and one ring even with the existing setup, just to try it... 34 size front ring should do it, i think...

    Quote Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post
    I'm sure that I will give it a go, I think it will be bang on 95% of the time & I will just have to harden up for the rest.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-kul View Post
    i run 1x10, 33 up front and 11-36 out back. around here i can scoot up most anything, and if i cant, well screw it. walking is ok too.
    good to know... my plan is to switch to 33 front as well...

  24. #24
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    I have to say the 42T rear is ridiculous. If you can't make it up the climb with a 32x36t (the current standard) the you can probably walk it just as fast as running a 33x42t.

    It seems like a cog that could deliver a serious amount of torque to a free hub (probably the reason it requires a special hub, so that you can't just slip it on any old hub and destroy it on the first climb), and it makes me think that a dirty drive train would just contribute to a lot of broken chains, bend 42t cogs etc.

    All too often bike component makers spend too much time making bike riding easier to compensate for the fact that bikes riding has been made easier. Modifying the SS riders creed, you have 9 or 10 or 11 speeds, all your gears and walking and if the hill is too hard to climb ride more, don't make it easier to climb. That is the same as removing rocks in the trail because you can't clean them. Learn to ride your bike, first. Then buy stuff.
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  25. #25
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    The gearing range of the 1x11 seems fine to me, but I wonder about the ability to quickly drop or jump up several gears like you can do with a front derailleur

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toff View Post
    The special freehub body turns me off of it. Their cassette will be stupid expensive also. Otherwise I would like it. I love my 1x9.
    I agree, my biggest turnoff was knowing the price and life expectancy of that XX cassette. Ive run XX 11/36 before and though they are freaking awesome! the almost $400 price tag isn't...

    Not to mention, is SRAM going to offer a single replacement for the 42 alloy ring? They did for the 36Tooth 10 speed but then DROPPED IT! Im still bitter over that
    One of the #1 reasons I don't buy XX cassettes anymore...
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  27. #27
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    I think it is awesome, like the idea about the 1x.
    I think they will do as they did with the "old" xx. They are the only who have a 11 speed mtb cassette, sŚ you have to buy a new xx cassette when it wears out. But in a year or 2 they will come with some cheaper options for 1x11 X0 and X9.

    Right now i have 2x10 on 1 bike and 1x10 on the other bike. And i really like the simplicity of 1 chainring. But sometimes i would be nice to have a little lower gear.

  28. #28
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    Nevermind...

    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post

    It seems like a cog that could deliver a serious amount of torque to a free hub (probably the reason it requires a special hub, so that you can't just slip it on any old hub and destroy it on the first climb), and it makes me think that a dirty drive train would just contribute to a lot of broken chains, bend 42t cogs etc.
    Im no physics major, so forgive on this.... but if total gear ratios are all equal is there any additional torque on the free hub..?

    I would think that only lowering the gear ratios would apply additional torque, no?

    EDIT:

    Sorry crusher I re-read your post and was confused at first. In response; as far as I can tell SRAM's not intending to further lower the standard gear ratios with the 1X11 group. I believe the smallest chainring looks like they will offer for this group is a 28t. Im sure most will probably run 32/34t up front though, so it really should keep in line with the current standard gearings.
    Last edited by Ace5high; 07-31-2012 at 01:44 PM.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    good to know... my plan is to switch to 33 front as well...
    smaller than 33 would be better for me because as of now i spend most of my time in the top few gears of my cassette but ymmv.

  30. #30
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    Looking forward to the Shimano version. I'm basically thankful that SRAM is doing something big to introduce something that could shake up the freehub spline standard. I really like their dome cassette construction concept, which helped opened up freehub ideas like the one Kappius has.

    Design Philosophy | Kappius Components

    Also thankful that SRAM is helping to get away from micro drive, which the weight weenies helped solidify. I like the benefits that using larger rings and cogs offer. 26/39 with a wider range cassette (11-36), was a good idea, at least for hardtails and the few suspension designs optimized for it.

    As for the 1x idea, I'm glad that they added such a gear to mimic a 39x11, as that bothered me more than not having something to mimic a 26x36 when trying to run a 32t and 11-36. I like the teeth profiling, and basically treating the drivetrain as a full system and making it work together in way much better than any conversion nowadays would perform.

  31. #31
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    meh, I'm with the wait and see crowd. 1x8 is fine for me with 34t being the biggest. I could see 10-42 being useful at some trails around. With that cassette I could easily enough ditch the 32 upfront and run 34 instead. Of course it'll all have to wait for my new bike anyway.
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  32. #32
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    Abso-f'n-lutely....

    Quote Originally Posted by ssalmons View Post
    I think SRAM made a big mistake by requiring a special freehub simply for the sake of having a 10 tooth cog. They could (should) have made a 10 speed cassette, 11x42 and been done. Maybe Shimano will do it right.....
    Shimano can walk away with whole thing in a second if they stick with a 10 speed rear, skip out on the 10t cog, and allow riders to not mess with their hubs. Do a 13-42 range cassette. The only riders who get excited about anything taller than an 12t are those guys riding their mountain bikes on roads.

  33. #33
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    Well, more gears would help make the spread between gears from 10/11/12/13t to the 42t cog smoother. The spacing isn't changed from current 10spd spacing. They just found more room to stick in an extra cog, taking advantage of the space between the spokes and the biggest cog on a standard 10spd cassette. It's more like 10+1.

    In an industry where innovation used to be more about making things bigger in diameter or attaching something to another slightly differently... this does attach things differently and increases "diameter", but they go way further than just that. This is true innovation, IMO. Would love to see even more things taken further. Lots of good innovation recently, like anglesets, clutch RDs, dropper posts, etc. This has quite some potential of making that list, though I hope it doesn't become a mess like tubeless, axle, and crank/bb "standards", where a bunch of brands come up with their own way of mounting a cassette or whatever.

  34. #34
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    I think it 1x11 will work great for those who already like and use a single ring. For others... Not so much.
    The lowest gear is not low enough if you live in an area where you use a 24/36 low gear.

  35. #35
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    This thread needs some porn...

    Sram's New XX1 Group-sram-xx1-rear-derailleur-29er-cafe-e1342887902456.jpg

    Sram's New XX1 Group-sram-xx1-1x11-mtb-crankset-details03.jpg

    Sram's New XX1 Group-sram_mtb_xx1-cassette-size2.jpg
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  36. #36
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    Shimano's take on it: internally geared hub that would stand up to off road cycling?

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootsie_cat View Post
    I think it 1x11 will work great for those who already like and use a single ring. For others... Not so much.
    The lowest gear is not low enough if you live in an area where you use a 24/36 low gear.
    They're offering a 28T chainring. 24/36 is identical to 28/42.

  38. #38
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    Seems like the chains are just getting thinner and thinner...

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Shimano can walk away with whole thing in a second if they stick with a 10 speed rear, skip out on the 10t cog, and allow riders to not mess with their hubs. Do a 13-42 range cassette. The only riders who get excited about anything taller than an 12t are those guys riding their mountain bikes on roads.
    I would agree with this....

  40. #40
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    forget the torque for a moment

    Questions is - do we really need rear cog that is bigger than the front ring? it will look ridiculous...

    I often ride with single speeders and the hills that these guys ride are sometimes crazy... I think the geared crowd can learn a thing or two from SS crowd... for starters - riding one gear up - often requires same effort - plus the speed goes up... Lots of times we downshift - because we can, not because we have to...

    1x10 is fine... wider range cassette is also fine, but going over 40 is ridiculous... for those that need more torque - there is 2x10... I don't think 1x10 will work for masses anyway...


    Quote Originally Posted by Ace5high View Post
    Im no physics major, so forgive on this.... but if total gear ratios are all equal is there any additional torque on the free hub..?

    I would think that only lowering the gear ratios would apply additional torque, no?

    EDIT:

    Sorry crusher I re-read your post and was confused at first. In response; as far as I can tell SRAM's not intending to further lower the standard gear ratios with the 1X11 group. I believe the smallest chainring looks like they will offer for this group is a 28t. Im sure most will probably run 32/34t up front though, so it really should keep in line with the current standard gearings.

  41. #41
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    I thought yo liked the idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    Questions is - do we really need rear cog that is bigger than the front ring? it will look ridiculous...
    Looks aside, the end gearing is all that should matter right?

    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    Lots of times we downshift - because we can, not because we have to...
    I think your absolutely right, its amazing what you can do if you actually remove some lower gears from your drivetrain that one might actually use normally. End up sprinting up hills with less total effort than spinning a low gear up.

    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    1x10 is fine... wider range cassette is also fine, but going over 40 is ridiculous... for those that need more torque - there is 2x10... I don't think 1x10 will work for masses anyway...
    Im one that would be very interested in loosing my front derailleur if I really could for my "ride everywhere" bikes. For me its just not possible on a 1x10, its close, but not good enough for the variety I ride. So a 1x11 seems almost perfect. I agree it would be better to drop the 10t cog use a standard 11t and normal free hub. Than with a 30/32t chainring up front 42t in back and there is almost nowhere off limits with that setup.

    I hear guys talk a lot about the single speeders and thats fine, but everyone has their limits. The only time I find myself really making good use of my low gears is on relentless steep mountain side climbs. Can some single speeders get up steep technical mountain climbs also sure, but the geared guys can keep spinning up climb when the SS'ers need to stop and rest. So IMO, the advantage is never needing to take breaks or hike a bike in the extremely difficult areas and just keep cranking.
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  42. #42
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    Out of the saddle grunts allow tall gearing on a SS. When I was in good shape, in mountainous terrain I pushed a 2:1 on my rigid 29er all the time. But, on my full squish, sit and spin bike, I've always been a granny guy.

  43. #43
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    I just can't see how chains getting thinner is better. I know they have crazy R&D, but these potential stress loads freak me out. Not that I'm a weight weenie...but are we adding weight on again? Or is it neutral to less with one less ring up front? It's an interesting concept...just too proprietary IMO. I've been running my 1x10 hard tail (32x12-36) and its been great! I was doing a 34 up front and it has made me a better rider. I think the goal is to find a way to machine a less gear cassette that shifts smooth, has a good spread, and has a thicker chain....shush I'm already designing it...hehe
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by banditx552 View Post
    Seems like the chains are just getting thinner and thinner...
    According to bike rumor the chain is actually chunkier instead of thinner

    Hands On! SRAM XX1 1◊11 Group – Details, Pics & More! - Bike Rumor
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  45. #45
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    I think the new XX1 is an overpriced over hyped piece of kit for people who are trying to compensate for there lack of mountain biking skill......

    That said I will give a much more informative review once I get my dirty hands on it
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  46. #46
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    Does anyone know if the cassette will work with a standard hub or is there a dedicated XX1 Sram hub?
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  47. #47
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    the new cassette only works with some sram hubs and dt swiss

    SRAM XX1 Hub Details | ridingagainstthegrain

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  48. #48
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    That is unfortunate. But thanks.
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  49. #49
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    Honestly, I think most pawl type hubs couldn't handle the torque of a 28/42 combo anyway. I have a feeling only hubs with ?ring drives?, or whatever King and DT use, will be up to the strength standard. I ride with a guy that has a 36t cassette and he shreds cheap SRAM hubs right and left. He could have bought a King about 5 grenaded hubs ago if he added up what he's spent on replacement hubs and wheel builds but he keeps convincing himself he's too broke for a King. Whatever. I don't see 42t cassettes being friendly to the current crop of underengineered hubs out there. SRAM may be protecting their collective butts over tons of accusations of their new stuff blowing up hubs or they may simply be cashing in on a new technology. Either way I'm glad they're doing it As a 1xXX fanatic, this is huge news to me! I'm not buying XX level stuff but when X9/XT hits the market I'll have enough saved up and pull that trigger Helps I already have a 240s hub

  50. #50
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    28/42 has the same torque load as 24/36
    both have a gear ratio of 1.5 to 1
    one just has more chain wrap

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  51. #51
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    I really don't see how the majority of mtn bikers can possibly need an 11t cog. That's typically the largest gear on road cassettes. On a mountain bike, it's a waste. And the cassette only being compatible with SRAM or DT hubs? Total failure by SRAM thinking the masses are going to pony up $400 or so to test their gear for them.

    I'm glad I ride SS, this just looks ridiculous.
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  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlowerJoe View Post
    28/42 has the same torque load as 24/36
    both have a gear ratio of 1.5 to 1
    one just has more chain wrap

    Sj
    The force on the chain is less with the bigger cogs on both ends. Otherwise, you are right. Torque at the shafts is the same. Dunno if chain tension difference matters much. May affect shifting a bit. Weight with overall larger gears is slightly higher. It's all trade-offs.

    As for XX1, too rich for me.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    I have to say the 42T rear is ridiculous. If you can't make it up the climb with a 32x36t (the current standard) the you can probably walk it just as fast as running a 33x42t.

    It seems like a cog that could deliver a serious amount of torque to a free hub (probably the reason it requires a special hub, so that you can't just slip it on any old hub and destroy it on the first climb), and it makes me think that a dirty drive train would just contribute to a lot of broken chains, bend 42t cogs etc.

    All too often bike component makers spend too much time making bike riding easier to compensate for the fact that bikes riding has been made easier. Modifying the SS riders creed, you have 9 or 10 or 11 speeds, all your gears and walking and if the hill is too hard to climb ride more, don't make it easier to climb. That is the same as removing rocks in the trail because you can't clean them. Learn to ride your bike, first. Then buy stuff.
    So you're saying that manufacturers shouldn't make gearing for people that have really long steep climbs or for people that can't quite make it up with higher gearing? We go out on our bikes to ride them and not to walk.

    What about people like me that have a bad knee and need lower gearing to spin up the steep climbs? I guess I shouldn't be riding at all hey!

    Options of any kind are great for the industry because they keep all of us riding. Choose a SS if you want but don't push them on others.
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  54. #54
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    The best part about this XX1 Group is how it is going to affect 29ers....... Think about Kona Honzo chainstays (414mm) for every bike. It's a game changer.

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    I'm running a 32 front 36 rear on my new heavy duty 29er. I can get up everything I have tried so far, but I haven't tried the really steep trails yet and I'm pretty sure it's going to be a struggle. Particularly if I'm tired or having an off day or it's a little slick. It's hard to modulate traction with too high of a gear.

    I can't run a front der because it will be too far from the rings to shift right and would interfere with my rear linkage. So I'm stuck with 1 ring. Or a middle and a big ring. I can probably engineer some kind of adapter bracket but having a 28 42 would be great.

    Personally I enjoy the accomplishment of riding up something that seems unridable. Going up it slowly isn't of concern. Walking up it sucks.

    As far as having a 10 tooth high, that is good too for when you need it and have a single smaller ring. That is the whole point. Not to run a big ring with a 10.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by azjonboy View Post
    I really don't see how the majority of mtn bikers can possibly need an 11t cog. That's typically the largest gear on road cassettes. On a mountain bike, it's a waste. And the cassette only being compatible with SRAM or DT hubs? Total failure by SRAM thinking the masses are going to pony up $400 or so to test their gear for them.

    I'm glad I ride SS, this just looks ridiculous.
    Pretty sure some folks are misunderstanding the whole XX1 group's purpose. SRAM isn't asking anyone to "test" out new gear ratios, torque loads, designs for weak riders, or making us think we need more gears at all...

    The XX1 allow's guys like us running a 2x10 (20 gears) to switch to a 1x11, less total gears, more simplicity, without making any significant changes to the highest and lowest gear ratio's...
    I do all my own stunts, but never intentionally...

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    The "10T is too high", or "42T is too low" arguments seem kind of silly. The cassette offers you a (large) range, and you choose how high or low that range is with the size of the chainring.

    11-42 would make a single ring very viable for me, I don't think the 10T is worth the loss of hub compatibility. Here's hoping someone puts out a 10-speed 11-42 version.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootsie_cat View Post
    I think it 1x11 will work great for those who already like and use a single ring. For others... Not so much.
    The lowest gear is not low enough if you live in an area where you use a 24/36 low gear.

    28 tooth front ring gives the same as a 24/36 low gear with a 33/12 "high" gear I believe or thereabouts
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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by spsoon View Post
    1-42 would make a single ring very viable for me, I don't think the 10T is worth the loss of hub compatibility. Here's hoping someone puts out a 10-speed 11-42 version.
    That would be pretty nice. I run a 36 ring x 11-34 9 speed cassette on my 5" travel bike. Love the single ring w/chain guide. Silent, simple and reliable. And perfect for most of my riding but a couple of the bigger mountains are proving to be quite a challenge. I just need to get stronger I guess!


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    Quote Originally Posted by spsoon View Post
    The "10T is too high", or "42T is too low" arguments seem kind of silly. The cassette offers you a (large) range, and you choose how high or low that range is with the size of the chainring.

    11-42 would make a single ring very viable for me, I don't think the 10T is worth the loss of hub compatibility. Here's hoping someone puts out a 10-speed 11-42 version.
    This^

    The 10-42 cassette range gives a front ring tooth difference of about 10 teeth vs a 12-36 cassette.

    1x11 speed vs 2x10 speed
    28 x 10-42 = 24/34 x 12-36
    30 x 10-42 = 26/36 x 12-36
    32 x 10-42 = 27/38 x 12-36
    33 x 10-42 = 28/40 x 12-36
    34 x 10-42 = 29/41 x 12-36
    36 x 10-42 = 31/43 x 12-36

    rounded up or down at .5

    G
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  61. #61
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    I like the fact that front rings can be changed fairly quickly. At some point I would really like to get this. Hopefully it comes down to an x9 pricepoint version at some point. I'd probably never need more than the 28 but would get a 30 or 32 too just in case.

    G
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  62. #62
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    that cassette gonna get so chewed up in long grass/overgrown trails and how much is its gonna be to replace at most every 12 months?
    had to be done as a concept i suppose but not for me...

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    Where I ride we keep our trails pretty cleared. Besides I've never had grass chew up a cluster. That must be some pretty bad ass grass lol.

    I think you all are starting to reach a bit far in trying to come up with things about this this idea to criticize.

    The only thing about it that I don't like is that I have to build a dedicated rear wheel to run it and use hubs I usually wouldn't buy. But...oh well. Besides if it does take off some of the smaller hub builders will likely jump on board.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  64. #64
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    I have mine a pree order with LBS so we will see
    going to run it with a 32
    got the 28 also just hoping I get to moab again next year
    anyone who can do the slickrock trail with 1x10 is a bigger man than me

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  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by azjonboy View Post
    I really don't see how the majority of mtn bikers can possibly need an 11t cog. That's typically the largest gear on road cassettes. On a mountain bike, it's a waste.

    Do you race? I use mine just about every time I ride the thing.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    Where I ride we keep our trails pretty cleared. Besides I've never had grass chew up a cluster. That must be some pretty bad ass grass lol.

    I think you all are starting to reach a bit far in trying to come up with things about this this idea to criticize.
    trust me, im not taking a swipe, my main problem with this is bigger clusters/narrow chains in general is that they get clogged up in long grass/heather more than older clusters that are more 'open'. i remember noticing a difference between the spacing (and clogging up) changing from a 6 speed to 7 speed way back when...

    riding in scotland and sometimes on very overgrown trails (that only i seem to know exist it would appear).

    all for innovation and a fan of sram although im 'all shimano' at the moment.

  67. #67
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    Yeah clogging in extreme conditions may be an issue. Plus I just got my first 10 speed cluster and I noticed that the derailleur and hanger need to be super straight or it doesn't shift worth a shite. So if 10 is worse than 9 which is worse than 8, then 11 might be a real problem if you ever fall on the right side. But we never do that, do we? Yeah right.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by azjonboy View Post
    I really don't see how the majority of mtn bikers can possibly need an 11t cog. That's typically the largest gear on road cassettes. On a mountain bike, it's a waste. And the cassette only being compatible with SRAM or DT hubs? Total failure by SRAM thinking the masses are going to pony up $400 or so to test their gear for them.

    I'm glad I ride SS, this just looks ridiculous.
    But the road bikes have like a 53 or 54 tooth chain ring, If someone was going to run a 28 tooth front ring then they would often be looking to use the 11 or 10 tooth gear.

    $400 for a XX1 setup ? If you can get them for that I will take 100 of them ASAP.

    Doesn't sound like you have any idea what you are talking about with this setup, But don't worry you don't have to buy 1.

    Just leave it to us guys that love cool stuff.
    Last edited by muzzanic; 08-17-2012 at 01:57 AM.
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    Im all for this setup ...as a triple 9 speed user when i tried 2 x 10 i just found it much easier to use.....two cogs at the front and ten out back ...less front messing and more rear easiness. (rear always changes easier than front under pressure)

    11 speed just sounds better no messy front deraillieur to get stuck with but 11 gears that shift no matter what.

    Now the only downside i see is that of early adoption and the price of the cassette and chain every year or so depending on the wear. But thats a similar problem if you buy an XO or XX Cassette they are pretty steep to be throwing money at every year compared to a £50 X9 cassette.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    Yeah clogging in extreme conditions may be an issue. Plus I just got my first 10 speed cluster and I noticed that the derailleur and hanger need to be super straight or it doesn't shift worth a shite. So if 10 is worse than 9 which is worse than 8, then 11 might be a real problem if you ever fall on the right side. But we never do that, do we? Yeah right.
    Is the spacing not the same as 10 speed ?

    They have dished the big ring & moved out the small ring so they can keep the spacing good.
    I have a 6 Berth Motorhome that I rent out . It is based in Tauranga, New Zealand

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    Quote Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post
    Is the spacing not the same as 10 speed ?

    They have dished the big ring & moved out the small ring so they can keep the spacing good.
    I did read that the chain was slightly narrower....i remember this because i had thought maybe a Hammerschmidt up front and eleven out back might have been possible.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrewfuzzy View Post
    I did read that the chain was slightly narrower....i remember this because i had thought maybe a Hammerschmidt up front and eleven out back might have been possible.
    Funny, I read just the opposite, that it was infact chunkier... Could be wrong but checkout what bikerumor said:

    Hands On! SRAM XX1 1◊11 Group – Details, Pics & More! - Bike Rumor
    I do all my own stunts, but never intentionally...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace5high View Post
    Funny, I read just the opposite, that it was infact chunkier... Could be wrong but checkout what bikerumor said:

    Hands On! SRAM XX1 1◊11 Group Ė Details, Pics & More! - Bike Rumor

    I read this ...

    XX1ís 11-speed cog spacing will be unique to the group, however, and isnít shared with 11-speed offerings from Shimano (more on that soon) or Campagnolo. Of course, thereís a dedicated 11-speed chain as well, with a slightly narrower external width. Inner plate spacing and roller width are unchanged from SRAMís 10-speed chains, though, so wear supposedly isnít adversely affected.

    SRAM XX1 Prototype Spotted - This One Goes To 11 - BikeRadar

  74. #74
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    Perfectly happy with a 1x10 setup , hell you can run a 2x10 setup for under that price and have it super light weight too .. Seems like a great idea , but personally i feel its a bit too much and over the top . Might as well add a motor now to the bike ... We just need to harden up a bit , practice, and get in better shape .

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by aedubber View Post
    Perfectly happy with a 1x10 setup , hell you can run a 2x10 setup for under that price and have it super light weight too .. Seems like a great idea , but personally i feel its a bit too much and over the top . Might as well add a motor now to the bike ... We just need to harden up a bit , practice, and get in better shape .
    * Starts search in to electrically assisted MTBs *

  76. #76
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    Here we go !!! :

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/pd1jheM_Cqo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

  77. #77
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    Mike Levy has a pretty good writeup on PB. Clicky.

  78. #78
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    Yea read that over there but i dunno , it just doesnt sit with me too good. Im sure some people will drop the coin on it tho.

  79. #79
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    Well, I'm not going to replace my current drivetrain with this, but the 1x wide range cassette idea has merit and I'm interested to watch it develop. Both with the majors like SRAM and the little guys like Canfield, and presumably Hope, if they're still working on their integrated cassette.

    This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but every bike forum I've read has way too much complaining from people about 'the industry' using 'marketing' to try and take their money and make them buy something new (29ers, 650b, tapered steerers, the list goes on). But there are a lot of people looking to buy at any given point, and besides I would guess the majority of bike sales are people buying new complete bikes, rather than enthusiasts building up a frame. I don't remember people complaining about having to buy a new car when side curtain airbags or traction control became common, but any advance in the bike industry has people screaming about being gouged rather than thinking "yeah, that might be cool when I get my next bike in a few years." (edit- like in the "Open letter to the bike industry" thread in Passion... )

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post
    Is the spacing not the same as 10 speed ?

    They have dished the big ring & moved out the small ring so they can keep the spacing good.
    You might be right. Not sure.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrewfuzzy View Post
    I read this ...

    XX1ís 11-speed cog spacing will be unique to the group, however, and isnít shared with 11-speed offerings from Shimano (more on that soon) or Campagnolo. Of course, thereís a dedicated 11-speed chain as well, with a slightly narrower external width. Inner plate spacing and roller width are unchanged from SRAMís 10-speed chains, though, so wear supposedly isnít adversely affected.

    SRAM XX1 Prototype Spotted - This One Goes To 11 - BikeRadar
    Yep, thats a bummer I was hoping to keep my 10 speed chains...
    I do all my own stunts, but never intentionally...

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace5high View Post
    What is everyones response to the new XX1 Group and idea of 1X11 as a whole?
    I think it is very stupid.

    I have been running 1x9 11x36 for a year and I am very happy with it. I would be even much happier with an 11x42 in 9, 10 or 11 speed. Instead SRAM comes out with a 10x42 that requires a new Hub. So whoever wants a 42 rear needs to buy a new shifter, a new cassette (forget the crank) and ... a new wheel

  83. #83
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    Forget the new wheel, hub or freehub body that is required. What about the $400 cassette!?!? At least if I spend $500 on a new wheel it'll last more than one season. The cassette will be a throwaway!
    Tallboy3 CC : Nomad3 CC: Highball2 CC : Stigmata2 CC

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide View Post
    I think it is very stupid.

    I have been running 1x9 11x36 for a year and I am very happy with it. I would be even much happier with an 11x42 in 9, 10 or 11 speed. Instead SRAM comes out with a 10x42 that requires a new Hub. So whoever wants a 42 rear needs to buy a new shifter, a new cassette (forget the crank) and ... a new wheel
    If you've been very happy with your 1x9 11-36, why do you need to change it just because something new comes out? I'm not changing anything, but I would consider a similar drivetrain for my next bike.

    Besides, putting XX1 on an existing bike doesn't necessarily require a new hub or wheel. The list of hub manufacturers who are offering compatible freehub bodies seems to grow by the week.

    Everyone seems to gloss over the fact that this group is called XX1. It's not X9-1 or whatever they'll call it when it trickles down to more affordable offerings.

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    This replaces the last 4 cogs of sram cassettes with 25-40. There is also a Shimano version with 42 larger cog coming out soon. No need to change hub, chain etc...



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    Not a FAN of SRAM and in fact I secretly wish they'd SCRAM. I don't know what it is maybe it's just me. I just don't like all their hype. Campagnolo out of my price range but I like the fact they design serviceable componentry. Shimano is what I can afford. I like their designs (for the most part) but I think their product has just a few more tiers than needed. I especially don't like Shimanos multiple finishes yeah just try to make your bike look homogeneous with components from different years. I'm a "Keep it Simple" type.

    eh..

    Hank

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    Where are people getting 11-36 9 speed cassettes? I have the HG61 but that thing is heavy and made the rear of my bikes noticeably heavier. The only upgrade I'm looking for is a ligher wider range 9 speed cassette.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flip D View Post
    Where are people getting 11-36 9 speed cassettes? I have the HG61 but that thing is heavy and made the rear of my bikes noticeably heavier. The only upgrade I'm looking for is a ligher wider range 9 speed cassette.
    I'm not aware of any. That's why a lot of people are going 10 spd, to get the 36.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    I'm not aware of any. That's why a lot of people are going 10 spd, to get the 36.
    Weenies...36..pfff....I want one I'm 9 speed.

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    this is a 1x system for posers.

    Gimme a 12-32 11 speed cassette on a normal freehub and Ill consider. Dont want or need a 42t or a 10t.
    Raised in a Chicken-Coop by Chickens

  91. #91
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    If it costs that much it is pretty much out of the question, but the reason to run it has nothing to do with being fashionable. I guess there are guys out there who buy bike parts to be "cool" but I have never met one and personally I have no interest in what others are riding. Usually 95% of them are way behind the curve anyhow. The only reason I would entertain a system like this is because I have bikes that can't run a front derailleur. That's it.

    Since I don't need a 32/11 on a 29er around here maybe looking into a smaller front ring in the middle position will get me what I need at a lot less trouble and money. I'll have to do the math and I still won't have crawler gears for super technical but a 28/36 would at least be easier on the knees and suffice most of the time.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

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    I can see the merit of any 1X system, and I use a 1x9 setup on one of my bikes...But this one doesn't interest me in the slightest. The expense to upgrade vs actual benefit just isn't there.

    SRAM $$-1....No thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel J View Post
    I can see the merit of any 1X system, and I use a 1x9 setup on one of my bikes...But this one doesn't interest me in the slightest. The expense to upgrade vs actual benefit just isn't there.

    SRAM $$-1....No thanks.

    SRAMs XX = Cost full stop.

    Then again if your a racer then cost probably isnt a problem so a high end groupset that trickles to the affordable end for others isnt a bad thing.....like formula1 trickling down to road cars

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel J View Post
    I can see the merit of any 1X system, and I use a 1x9 setup on one of my bikes...But this one doesn't interest me in the slightest. The expense to upgrade vs actual benefit just isn't there.

    SRAM $$-1....No thanks.
    I'm with you. Originally I was wait and see about the xx1, but after finding out the cost associated with it, I'll pass. My 1x8 gives me plenty of range. 12 - 34. I rarely use the 12 and the 34 is my granny gear. The trails by me don't merit the need for a 42t rear anyway. As is I'm considering bumping the front from 32 to 34.
    SS ==> Nut up or Shut up!

  95. #95
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    As I looked through this thread, I did not see any actual pricing for this group. Does anyone know what the retail price on XX1 will be? Thx.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHS View Post
    As I looked through this thread, I did not see any actual pricing for this group. Does anyone know what the retail price on XX1 will be? Thx.
    $1500 for the whole lot

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    Expensive and I think the move to a new freehub for just 10t is a bad idea, but overall I'm blown away, I think it's a terrific innovation. Definitely not hating on SRAM for what they came up with. If they come out with a 11-42t cassette for those of us with investments in wheels, I'm sold,

  98. #98
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    There is one thing to consider with having such a wide ratio range on a cassette and that is that if it had less cogs there would be even more space between choices. Not that that would be a deal breaker but proper gear choice is nice.

    So $1500 is for everything including the dedicated wheel? Or are they offering just a hub? That's a lot but not too bad if the cassette is $400 by itself. Crankset, chain, shifter, hub, cassette, derailleur and what ever else.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

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    None is forcing you on this groupset- sram is just gives you more choice and there will be folks who will be using it- including me hopefully next season I think it's perfect groupset for my type of xc riding and that 10t will be really useful.

    If you look on prices on this side of pond- it actually costs the same as current xx- only +80eur for cassette compared to current xx and +90eur for dt freehub to rebuild my current wheelset but you save it on fd and shifter.

    maintenance wise- chainrings costs the same as xx only cassette will be 80eur more expensive but that's fine with me if it lasts at least whole racing season. (won't be using it for training)

  100. #100
    mtbr member
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    Nov 2010
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    I am currently riding XX and I have the following observations after nearly 2 seasons on it. Sram needed to make this change to 1X for the group to appeal to more rider types and terrain. It needed a wider / lower range availablity / ring versatility, particularly for 29rs. Current 2x10 XX was built for cross country racers in my opinion. Gazelle type creatures that ride fast all the time and push big gears. The current XX crank bolt pattern will not allow anything smaller that a 26t on the front. A 26 x 36 on a 29r is just not low enough for long high altitute climbing around here... unless you are a superfit gazell. Possible, yes but my relatively fit 47 year old knees protest after a long day in the saddle up high pushing a 26 x 36 over roots and rocks. Down lower in the high desert.. 26 x 36 is mostly ok but as a current XX user, I would like more ring options. It looks like the new group provides this.

    I was thinking 1 x 10 already and was getting ready to (and probably will) purchase a different crank set that can fit a 24 tooth ring when I heard about this new group. I am thinking a double with a bash and 24 tooth ring. I will miss the high end (rarely) but will use more of the current cog stack.

    In addition, these aforementioned racers are why you have a 10 tooth cog. Because the pros can push it and will use it. If the pros did not need / want the 10 tooth, it would not be on the stack. my two cents.

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