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  1. #1
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    Sram's New XX1 Group

    What is everyones response to the new XX1 Group and idea of 1X11 as a whole?

    At first I did the ol eye roll too .. but after punching some of the gearings into my calculator I began to think it might be something Im looking forward to...

    I pretty much ride exclusively 29ers these days, and for me the 10X42 cassette might work perfect with a 28/30 tooth single up front. I currently run 26 low and 36 high with a 11/36 cassette and rarely use my top end...

    I wouldn't mind sacrificing a little tiny bit of top end to keep the extra weight off, extra shifting out and simplicity of a 1x11
    Last edited by Ace5high; 07-29-2012 at 03:27 PM.
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  2. #2
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    I'm sure that I will give it a go, I think it will be bang on 95% of the time & I will just have to harden up for the rest.
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  3. #3
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    I don't like the idea of having a special hub...
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor69PRS View Post
    I don't like the idea of having a special hub...
    It is not the whole hub, just the freehub body. Will work with any DT Swiss star ratchet hub.

  5. #5
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    I'm taking a wait-and-see regarding chain management issues. If you make the chain long enough for the 42, won't it be flopping all over the place when you are in the 10? And if you add a chain guide would it hinder the shifting?

    I'm currently loving 1x9. but if I can get 2 more gears all else being equal I'd take it in a heartbeat!

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  6. #6
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    I don't think it is a problem, Emily Batty raced on it at the last WC race.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinning Lizard View Post
    It is not the whole hub, just the freehub body. Will work with any DT Swiss star ratchet hub.
    Good to know! I also thought that you had to use the SRAM hub, and was wanting to stick with DT240s hubs.

    I do like the idea of it, and I'm definitely considering it for the Air 9 RDO that I'm getting started on! The cost may (or may not) sway my decision.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    I'm taking a wait-and-see regarding chain management issues. If you make the chain long enough for the 42, won't it be flopping all over the place when you are in the 10? And if you add a chain guide would it hinder the shifting?
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  9. #9
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    Looks like an great set-up to me. I'm selling my blood now and putting the money away in a Christmas fund for this group...Only 127 more quarts and I'll be ready.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post
    I'm sure that I will give it a go, I think it will be bang on 95% of the time & I will just have to harden up for the rest.
    At least until you decide youve hardened up you can change the front cog without a lot of trouble just slides strainght over the arm and pedal.

    From what ive read, price is somewhere in the ballpark of $1200 and the clutch rear deraillieur plus some new movement system solves the chainflop.

    I would give it a go if i knew what the ratios equated to compared to a 22/36 or a 24/39 2 x 10 system.

  11. #11
    RTM
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    Quote Originally Posted by mopartodd View Post
    Looks like an great set-up to me. I'm selling my blood now and putting the money away in a Christmas fund for this group...Only 127 more quarts and I'll be ready.
    great point. I tend to get overly excited until the price reels me back in.

    "wow, I'm all over that!" quickly turns to, "wow, this old stuff is fine."

  12. #12
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    I think SRAM made a big mistake by requiring a special freehub simply for the sake of having a 10 tooth cog. They could (should) have made a 10 speed cassette, 11x42 and been done. Maybe Shimano will do it right.....

  13. #13
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    The special freehub body turns me off of it. Their cassette will be stupid expensive also. Otherwise I would like it. I love my 1x9.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toff View Post
    The special freehub body turns me off of it. Their cassette will be stupid expensive also. Otherwise I would like it. I love my 1x9.
    I agree with this. Perhaps we will see a "X01" model in 11-42 that fits a standard freehub body. Racing with 34x11-36 now, I would be absolutely thrilled to have that gear range.

    It should go without saying that not everyone has DT Swiss or SRAM rear hubs. I have Industry 9 wheels and also a wheelset with ZTR hubs. I'd love to hear them announce their XX1-compatible freehub bodies, but I haven't heard that from them or any other of the many companies out there that make rear hubs.

  15. #15
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    I have x9 hubs so I guess I could give it a try. But that cassette is going to be like $400 and I bet the chain will be over $100. That's just too much money for stuff that I will replace twice a season. I really hope this trickles down to less expensive parts.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssalmons View Post
    I think SRAM made a big mistake by requiring a special freehub simply for the sake of having a 10 tooth cog. They could (should) have made a 10 speed cassette, 11x42 and been done. Maybe Shimano will do it right.....
    Amen! Love the overall concept, but just don't understand the need to go through with what it took to get the 10T. I run 1x9 34T-11/32T and 1X10 32T-11/34T and can count on 1 hand how many times I ever even use the 11T. I'll be curious how compatible (or incompatible) the chain will be with any cassette other than this XX1 10/42T. Not hopeful on that though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rwitte View Post
    Amen! Love the overall concept, but just don't understand the need to go through with what it took to get the 10T. I run 1x9 34T-11/32T and 1X10 32T-11/34T and can count on 1 hand how many times I ever even use the 11T. I'll be curious how compatible (or incompatible) the chain will be with any cassette other than this XX1 10/42T. Not hopeful on that though.
    Its a special chain that designed narrower that normal chains and i suppose its designed exclusively to run on the front Crank due to the longer tooth length of crank

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssalmons View Post
    I think SRAM made a big mistake by requiring a special freehub simply for the sake of having a 10 tooth cog. They could (should) have made a 10 speed cassette, 11x42 and been done. Maybe Shimano will do it right.....
    Agreed, I never even use my 11T on the 26er.

  19. #19
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    i run 1x10, 33 up front and 11-36 out back. around here i can scoot up most anything, and if i cant, well screw it. walking is ok too.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssalmons View Post
    I think SRAM made a big mistake by requiring a special freehub simply for the sake of having a 10 tooth cog. They could (should) have made a 10 speed cassette, 11x42 and been done. Maybe Shimano will do it right.....
    I think you might be missing the point. From what I understand about the group Sram wants it to be used for every thing from down hill to world cup XC racers to every day riders. XC racers will want the 10 and as well as the 42.

  21. #21
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    wc dh riders already use a single ring and a close ratio road cassette so that is happening...

  22. #22
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    my thoughts as well

    i've been entertaining losing the front derailleur, shifter and one ring even with the existing setup, just to try it... 34 size front ring should do it, i think...

    Quote Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post
    I'm sure that I will give it a go, I think it will be bang on 95% of the time & I will just have to harden up for the rest.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-kul View Post
    i run 1x10, 33 up front and 11-36 out back. around here i can scoot up most anything, and if i cant, well screw it. walking is ok too.
    good to know... my plan is to switch to 33 front as well...

  24. #24
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    I have to say the 42T rear is ridiculous. If you can't make it up the climb with a 32x36t (the current standard) the you can probably walk it just as fast as running a 33x42t.

    It seems like a cog that could deliver a serious amount of torque to a free hub (probably the reason it requires a special hub, so that you can't just slip it on any old hub and destroy it on the first climb), and it makes me think that a dirty drive train would just contribute to a lot of broken chains, bend 42t cogs etc.

    All too often bike component makers spend too much time making bike riding easier to compensate for the fact that bikes riding has been made easier. Modifying the SS riders creed, you have 9 or 10 or 11 speeds, all your gears and walking and if the hill is too hard to climb ride more, don't make it easier to climb. That is the same as removing rocks in the trail because you can't clean them. Learn to ride your bike, first. Then buy stuff.
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  25. #25
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    The gearing range of the 1x11 seems fine to me, but I wonder about the ability to quickly drop or jump up several gears like you can do with a front derailleur

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toff View Post
    The special freehub body turns me off of it. Their cassette will be stupid expensive also. Otherwise I would like it. I love my 1x9.
    I agree, my biggest turnoff was knowing the price and life expectancy of that XX cassette. Ive run XX 11/36 before and though they are freaking awesome! the almost $400 price tag isn't...

    Not to mention, is SRAM going to offer a single replacement for the 42 alloy ring? They did for the 36Tooth 10 speed but then DROPPED IT! Im still bitter over that
    One of the #1 reasons I don't buy XX cassettes anymore...
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  27. #27
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    I think it is awesome, like the idea about the 1x.
    I think they will do as they did with the "old" xx. They are the only who have a 11 speed mtb cassette, så you have to buy a new xx cassette when it wears out. But in a year or 2 they will come with some cheaper options for 1x11 X0 and X9.

    Right now i have 2x10 on 1 bike and 1x10 on the other bike. And i really like the simplicity of 1 chainring. But sometimes i would be nice to have a little lower gear.

  28. #28
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    Nevermind...

    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post

    It seems like a cog that could deliver a serious amount of torque to a free hub (probably the reason it requires a special hub, so that you can't just slip it on any old hub and destroy it on the first climb), and it makes me think that a dirty drive train would just contribute to a lot of broken chains, bend 42t cogs etc.
    Im no physics major, so forgive on this.... but if total gear ratios are all equal is there any additional torque on the free hub..?

    I would think that only lowering the gear ratios would apply additional torque, no?

    EDIT:

    Sorry crusher I re-read your post and was confused at first. In response; as far as I can tell SRAM's not intending to further lower the standard gear ratios with the 1X11 group. I believe the smallest chainring looks like they will offer for this group is a 28t. Im sure most will probably run 32/34t up front though, so it really should keep in line with the current standard gearings.
    Last edited by Ace5high; 07-31-2012 at 01:44 PM.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    good to know... my plan is to switch to 33 front as well...
    smaller than 33 would be better for me because as of now i spend most of my time in the top few gears of my cassette but ymmv.

  30. #30
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    Looking forward to the Shimano version. I'm basically thankful that SRAM is doing something big to introduce something that could shake up the freehub spline standard. I really like their dome cassette construction concept, which helped opened up freehub ideas like the one Kappius has.

    Design Philosophy | Kappius Components

    Also thankful that SRAM is helping to get away from micro drive, which the weight weenies helped solidify. I like the benefits that using larger rings and cogs offer. 26/39 with a wider range cassette (11-36), was a good idea, at least for hardtails and the few suspension designs optimized for it.

    As for the 1x idea, I'm glad that they added such a gear to mimic a 39x11, as that bothered me more than not having something to mimic a 26x36 when trying to run a 32t and 11-36. I like the teeth profiling, and basically treating the drivetrain as a full system and making it work together in way much better than any conversion nowadays would perform.

  31. #31
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    meh, I'm with the wait and see crowd. 1x8 is fine for me with 34t being the biggest. I could see 10-42 being useful at some trails around. With that cassette I could easily enough ditch the 32 upfront and run 34 instead. Of course it'll all have to wait for my new bike anyway.
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  32. #32
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    Abso-f'n-lutely....

    Quote Originally Posted by ssalmons View Post
    I think SRAM made a big mistake by requiring a special freehub simply for the sake of having a 10 tooth cog. They could (should) have made a 10 speed cassette, 11x42 and been done. Maybe Shimano will do it right.....
    Shimano can walk away with whole thing in a second if they stick with a 10 speed rear, skip out on the 10t cog, and allow riders to not mess with their hubs. Do a 13-42 range cassette. The only riders who get excited about anything taller than an 12t are those guys riding their mountain bikes on roads.

  33. #33
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    Well, more gears would help make the spread between gears from 10/11/12/13t to the 42t cog smoother. The spacing isn't changed from current 10spd spacing. They just found more room to stick in an extra cog, taking advantage of the space between the spokes and the biggest cog on a standard 10spd cassette. It's more like 10+1.

    In an industry where innovation used to be more about making things bigger in diameter or attaching something to another slightly differently... this does attach things differently and increases "diameter", but they go way further than just that. This is true innovation, IMO. Would love to see even more things taken further. Lots of good innovation recently, like anglesets, clutch RDs, dropper posts, etc. This has quite some potential of making that list, though I hope it doesn't become a mess like tubeless, axle, and crank/bb "standards", where a bunch of brands come up with their own way of mounting a cassette or whatever.

  34. #34
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    I think it 1x11 will work great for those who already like and use a single ring. For others... Not so much.
    The lowest gear is not low enough if you live in an area where you use a 24/36 low gear.

  35. #35
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    This thread needs some porn...

    Sram's New XX1 Group-sram-xx1-rear-derailleur-29er-cafe-e1342887902456.jpg

    Sram's New XX1 Group-sram-xx1-1x11-mtb-crankset-details03.jpg

    Sram's New XX1 Group-sram_mtb_xx1-cassette-size2.jpg
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  36. #36
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    Shimano's take on it: internally geared hub that would stand up to off road cycling?

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootsie_cat View Post
    I think it 1x11 will work great for those who already like and use a single ring. For others... Not so much.
    The lowest gear is not low enough if you live in an area where you use a 24/36 low gear.
    They're offering a 28T chainring. 24/36 is identical to 28/42.

  38. #38
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    Seems like the chains are just getting thinner and thinner...

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Shimano can walk away with whole thing in a second if they stick with a 10 speed rear, skip out on the 10t cog, and allow riders to not mess with their hubs. Do a 13-42 range cassette. The only riders who get excited about anything taller than an 12t are those guys riding their mountain bikes on roads.
    I would agree with this....

  40. #40
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    forget the torque for a moment

    Questions is - do we really need rear cog that is bigger than the front ring? it will look ridiculous...

    I often ride with single speeders and the hills that these guys ride are sometimes crazy... I think the geared crowd can learn a thing or two from SS crowd... for starters - riding one gear up - often requires same effort - plus the speed goes up... Lots of times we downshift - because we can, not because we have to...

    1x10 is fine... wider range cassette is also fine, but going over 40 is ridiculous... for those that need more torque - there is 2x10... I don't think 1x10 will work for masses anyway...


    Quote Originally Posted by Ace5high View Post
    Im no physics major, so forgive on this.... but if total gear ratios are all equal is there any additional torque on the free hub..?

    I would think that only lowering the gear ratios would apply additional torque, no?

    EDIT:

    Sorry crusher I re-read your post and was confused at first. In response; as far as I can tell SRAM's not intending to further lower the standard gear ratios with the 1X11 group. I believe the smallest chainring looks like they will offer for this group is a 28t. Im sure most will probably run 32/34t up front though, so it really should keep in line with the current standard gearings.

  41. #41
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    I thought yo liked the idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    Questions is - do we really need rear cog that is bigger than the front ring? it will look ridiculous...
    Looks aside, the end gearing is all that should matter right?

    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    Lots of times we downshift - because we can, not because we have to...
    I think your absolutely right, its amazing what you can do if you actually remove some lower gears from your drivetrain that one might actually use normally. End up sprinting up hills with less total effort than spinning a low gear up.

    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    1x10 is fine... wider range cassette is also fine, but going over 40 is ridiculous... for those that need more torque - there is 2x10... I don't think 1x10 will work for masses anyway...
    Im one that would be very interested in loosing my front derailleur if I really could for my "ride everywhere" bikes. For me its just not possible on a 1x10, its close, but not good enough for the variety I ride. So a 1x11 seems almost perfect. I agree it would be better to drop the 10t cog use a standard 11t and normal free hub. Than with a 30/32t chainring up front 42t in back and there is almost nowhere off limits with that setup.

    I hear guys talk a lot about the single speeders and thats fine, but everyone has their limits. The only time I find myself really making good use of my low gears is on relentless steep mountain side climbs. Can some single speeders get up steep technical mountain climbs also sure, but the geared guys can keep spinning up climb when the SS'ers need to stop and rest. So IMO, the advantage is never needing to take breaks or hike a bike in the extremely difficult areas and just keep cranking.
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  42. #42
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    Out of the saddle grunts allow tall gearing on a SS. When I was in good shape, in mountainous terrain I pushed a 2:1 on my rigid 29er all the time. But, on my full squish, sit and spin bike, I've always been a granny guy.

  43. #43
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    I just can't see how chains getting thinner is better. I know they have crazy R&D, but these potential stress loads freak me out. Not that I'm a weight weenie...but are we adding weight on again? Or is it neutral to less with one less ring up front? It's an interesting concept...just too proprietary IMO. I've been running my 1x10 hard tail (32x12-36) and its been great! I was doing a 34 up front and it has made me a better rider. I think the goal is to find a way to machine a less gear cassette that shifts smooth, has a good spread, and has a thicker chain....shush I'm already designing it...hehe
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by banditx552 View Post
    Seems like the chains are just getting thinner and thinner...
    According to bike rumor the chain is actually chunkier instead of thinner

    Hands On! SRAM XX1 1×11 Group – Details, Pics & More! - Bike Rumor
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  45. #45
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    I think the new XX1 is an overpriced over hyped piece of kit for people who are trying to compensate for there lack of mountain biking skill......

    That said I will give a much more informative review once I get my dirty hands on it
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  46. #46
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    Does anyone know if the cassette will work with a standard hub or is there a dedicated XX1 Sram hub?
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  47. #47
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    the new cassette only works with some sram hubs and dt swiss

    SRAM XX1 Hub Details | ridingagainstthegrain

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  48. #48
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    That is unfortunate. But thanks.
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  49. #49
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    Honestly, I think most pawl type hubs couldn't handle the torque of a 28/42 combo anyway. I have a feeling only hubs with ?ring drives?, or whatever King and DT use, will be up to the strength standard. I ride with a guy that has a 36t cassette and he shreds cheap SRAM hubs right and left. He could have bought a King about 5 grenaded hubs ago if he added up what he's spent on replacement hubs and wheel builds but he keeps convincing himself he's too broke for a King. Whatever. I don't see 42t cassettes being friendly to the current crop of underengineered hubs out there. SRAM may be protecting their collective butts over tons of accusations of their new stuff blowing up hubs or they may simply be cashing in on a new technology. Either way I'm glad they're doing it As a 1xXX fanatic, this is huge news to me! I'm not buying XX level stuff but when X9/XT hits the market I'll have enough saved up and pull that trigger Helps I already have a 240s hub

  50. #50
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    28/42 has the same torque load as 24/36
    both have a gear ratio of 1.5 to 1
    one just has more chain wrap

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