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Sram's New XX1 Group

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#1 · (Edited)
What is everyones response to the new XX1 Group and idea of 1X11 as a whole?

At first I did the ol eye roll too :rolleyes: .. but after punching some of the gearings into my calculator I began to think it might be something Im looking forward to...

I pretty much ride exclusively 29ers these days, and for me the 10X42 cassette might work perfect with a 28/30 tooth single up front. I currently run 26 low and 36 high with a 11/36 cassette and rarely use my top end...

I wouldn't mind sacrificing a little tiny bit of top end to keep the extra weight off, extra shifting out and simplicity of a 1x11 ;)
 
#185 ·
The XX1 stuff rides really well. It's dead quiet. Almost... too quiet.

But seriously, I cased a double, perfect 50/50, and no noise and the chain didn't drop. I rode downhill all summer so am used to dropping chains. After riding Moab, Park City, Fruita and Grand Junction with no issues, I can happily say that it lives up to the hype. It's amazingly smooth, the gear jumps aren't un-natural and 10-42 is a HUGE range. It's nice to have just one shifter.

And the new XO trails brakes feel really good too... I little more grabby than my regular XO brakes.

mk
 
#269 · (Edited)
Got to handle XX1 in person tonight at the JensonUSA tech demo. I figured I'd share what I learned, from sort of a neutral stand point, treating all hype with a healthy amount of speculation.

The Type 2's cage "tension" just feels crazy high. I was thinking it was "locked" (I never handled it before, even a XO or X9 version), until I gave it much much more force to open it up. The cage lock button is a very cool idea. You use it when you want to install/remove your wheel, by pushing the cage forward and you press the Lock button, which is actually a pin, which goes into a cut-out in the cage, and holds it forward. The 12T jockey wheels kind of stand out. They aren't made of the slick Delrin material I'm used to seeing, but instead a hard plasticy composite material, with the "X-Sync" tooth shaping like found on the chainring. Also only the outboard half of the cage is carbon it seems, with the inner half metal.

The cassette feels so light for how massive it is. I've used an XX cassette before and this didn't fail to impress me yet again, with how artfully crafted it is. The difference here is how it locks onto the hub's cassette body. It presses up against it, yet not flush like a normal cassette. Instead, you use a lockring tool to screw it on, and it pulls itself into the grooves. Super simple.

SRAM rep gave me some numbers and the prices seemed higher than what I've been paying for XX (I tend to bargain hunt). How cheap they said the XX1 chain's MSRP is, was kind of shock, with how low it was, especially after how they claimed it lasted 4x longer than their previous chains ($59). They say it lasts 4x longer due to some "hard chrome" coating they put in the inner bits. It looked pretty narrow. That's one thing I'm looking forward to on trickle down. The chainrings were kind of expensive, $90-125 or so, depending on how many teeth it comes in. They say they're CNC'd 7000 series alu, with a special hard wearing coating.

Not sure if I'd pair it with triggers, personally. I tried riding pseudo 1x, by simply keeping it in the middle ring, and found myself dumping massive number of gears unnaturally. That made me look forward to checking out the twist action of the GripShift, and how it feels jumping through multiple gears. Thought that it felt really light and smooth at pulling cable, with distinct clicks between gears, but felt like the clicks were more like big speed bumps when releasing cable.

I was shown what looked to be a XD Driver body made for a SRAM hub, with its pawls missing. It had a sealed bearing hanging out on 1 side and a built in rubber flap where it meets the hub shell. Looks like the end cap doesn't press fit on, but is loose and is held by the thru axle. Can't really judge other brand's version on the one I saw, but they claim that a lot of brands have signed on to create their own hub bodies that are compatible with the XX1 cassette.

One of the Jenson guys added in an anecdotal story about SRAM carbon crankarms (XO, in this story), saying that they felt stiffer than XTR crankarms, which successfully converted a heavy hard-riding Shimano die hard. They say it comes in 168? and 154? Q-factors and I think it comes with heel rub tape pre-installed.

The rep claimed SRAM to have shipped out only 1000 groupsets globally for their November shipment (~400 to the US), and plan on ramping up production to double that figure each month.

Looks like you're gonna have to basically buy an entire gruppo, as they're all designed to work together. $1450 MSRP. While they might have said that to get the finest experience, you must run things together with their older gruppos, they really emphasize it for this one. Someone asked the rep if you can put the XX1 chainrings on a non-XX1 crankset and she said no, and then corrected herself saying that not compatible at this time.

Looking forward to seeing this on complete bikes, particularly ones that are designed specifically for it, no FD and no compromises for fitting triple crankarms and also allowing tire clearance. Maybe we can see some lighter 29ers that feature tighter rear ends. A lot of naysayers might just be sold on it come 2014, when this actually gets out under more riders and the word spreads. It has quite a bit of promise and, from what I can tell, it looks like it can deliver. If a 1x system was a maybe, for your bike, fitness, and trails, XX1 might make that "maybe", if the hype can be believed, into a "why did I wait so long to go for a proper quality 1x setup?" There are those that feel like there's no chance that 1x would work for them, and I don't think XX1 will work well for them. It seems to target a limited number of riders, particularly those who "trail ride", rather than ride up and down mountains.

I didn't get to see it installed on a bike, so I'm not sold on it yet (I'd like to ride on it first), but the SRAM rep said that there might be a surprise at a future tech demo when she gets a truck and heads down to San Diego. Would've at least liked to feel the chain tension. Already seen it in action in the vids and can't really judge shifting action in a bike stand.
 
#270 ·
It rides very nice.

When I 1st felt the tension of the derailieur I thought wow that is a bit tight, But on the bike it feels fine.

The system is quiet running & i'm not just talking about lack of chain slap, The shifts are very chrisp & with the triggers I often choose to drop 2 gears at a time with no problems & don't feel the need to drop more at a time.

With the std 32 front ring & 42 on the rear it is much the same as the 26/36 I ran on my XX group & on most my trails didn't run out of gears.

I ordered a 28 & 30 tooth front ring before I rode the bike & don't really feel the need to run them, But will fit one or other on the large climb days just because I can.

I have been only doing trails that i would think would be the hardest for the chain to stay on with no chain guide to see if I need to order 1 befor christmas but it has been rock solid.

I will be selling all my 2x10 drive train bit of which I have many & staying with XX1 now that I have ridden it & am very happy with it.

Got to handle XX1 in person tonight at the JensonUSA tech demo. I figured I'd share what I learned, from sort of a neutral stand point, treating all hype with a healthy amount of speculation.

The Type 2's cage "tension" just feels crazy high. I was thinking it was "locked" (I never handled it before, even a XO or X9 version), until I gave it much much more force to open it up. The cage lock button is a very cool idea. You use it when you want to install/remove your wheel, by pushing the cage forward and you press the Lock button, which is actually a pin, which goes into a cut-out in the cage, and holds it forward. The 12T jockey wheels kind of stand out. They aren't made of the slick Delrin material I'm used to seeing, but instead a hard plasticy composite material, with the "X-Sync" tooth shaping like found on the chainring. Also only the outboard half of the cage is carbon it seems, with the inner half metal.

The cassette feels so light for how massive it is. I've used an XX cassette before and this didn't fail to impress me yet again, with how artfully crafted it is. The difference here is how it locks onto the hub's cassette body. It presses up against it, yet not flush like a normal cassette. Instead, you use a lockring tool to screw it on, and it pulls itself into the grooves. Super simple.

SRAM rep gave me some numbers and the prices seemed higher than what I've been paying for XX (I tend to bargain hunt). How cheap they said the XX1 chain's MSRP is, was kind of shock, with how low it was, especially after how they claimed it lasted 4x longer than their previous chains ($59). They say it lasts 4x longer due to some "hard chrome" coating they put in the inner bits. It looked pretty narrow. That's one thing I'm looking forward to on trickle down. The chainrings were kind of expensive, $90-125 or so, depending on how many teeth it comes in. They say they're CNC'd 7000 series alu, with a special hard wearing coating.

Not sure if I'd pair it with triggers, personally. I tried riding pseudo 1x, by simply keeping it in the middle ring, and found myself dumping massive number of gears unnaturally. That made me look forward to checking out the twist action of the GripShift, and how it feels jumping through multiple gears. Thought that it felt really light and smooth at pulling cable, with distinct clicks between gears, but felt like the clicks were more like big speed bumps when releasing cable.

I was shown what looked to be a XD Driver body made for a SRAM hub, with its pawls missing. It had a sealed bearing hanging out on 1 side and a built in rubber flap where it meets the hub shell. Looks like the end cap doesn't press fit on, but is loose and is held by the thru axle. Can't really judge other brand's version on the one I saw, but they claim that a lot of brands have signed on to create their own hub bodies that are compatible with the XX1 cassette.

One of the Jenson guys added in an anecdotal story about SRAM carbon crankarms (XO, in this story), saying that they felt stiffer than XTR crankarms, which successfully converted a heavy hard-riding Shimano die hard. They say it comes in 168? and 154? Q-factors and I think it comes with heel rub tape pre-installed.

The rep claimed SRAM to have shipped out only 1000 groupsets globally for their November shipment (~400 to the US), and plan on ramping up production to double that figure each month.

Looks like you're gonna have to basically buy an entire gruppo, as they're all designed to work together. $1450 MSRP. While they might have said that to get the finest experience, you must run things together with their older gruppos, they really emphasize it for this one. Someone asked the rep if you can put the XX1 chainrings on a non-XX1 crankset and she said no, and then corrected herself saying that not compatible at this time.

Looking forward to seeing this on complete bikes, particularly ones that are designed specifically for it, no FD and no compromises for fitting triple crankarms and also allowing tire clearance. Maybe we can see some lighter 29ers that feature tighter rear ends. A lot of naysayers might just be sold on it come 2014, when this actually gets out under more riders and the word spreads. It has quite a bit of promise and, from what I can tell, it looks like it can deliver. If a 1x system was a maybe, for your bike, fitness, and trails, XX1 might make that "maybe", if the hype can be believed, into a "why did I wait so long to go for a proper quality 1x setup?" There are those that feel like there's no chance that 1x would work for them, and I don't think XX1 will work well for them. It seems to target a limited number of riders, particularly those who "trail ride", rather than ride up and down mountains.

I didn't get to see it installed on a bike, so I'm not sold on it yet (I'd like to ride on it first), but the SRAM rep said that there might be a surprise at a future tech demo when she gets a truck and heads down to San Diego. Would've at least liked to feel the chain tension. Already seen it in action in the vids and can't really judge shifting action in a bike stand.
 

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#5 ·
I'm taking a wait-and-see regarding chain management issues. If you make the chain long enough for the 42, won't it be flopping all over the place when you are in the 10? And if you add a chain guide would it hinder the shifting?

I'm currently loving 1x9. but if I can get 2 more gears all else being equal I'd take it in a heartbeat!

- Rob
 
#24 ·
I have to say the 42T rear is ridiculous. If you can't make it up the climb with a 32x36t (the current standard) the you can probably walk it just as fast as running a 33x42t.

It seems like a cog that could deliver a serious amount of torque to a free hub (probably the reason it requires a special hub, so that you can't just slip it on any old hub and destroy it on the first climb), and it makes me think that a dirty drive train would just contribute to a lot of broken chains, bend 42t cogs etc.

All too often bike component makers spend too much time making bike riding easier to compensate for the fact that bikes riding has been made easier. Modifying the SS riders creed, you have 9 or 10 or 11 speeds, all your gears and walking and if the hill is too hard to climb ride more, don't make it easier to climb. That is the same as removing rocks in the trail because you can't clean them. Learn to ride your bike, first. Then buy stuff.
 
#53 ·
I have to say the 42T rear is ridiculous. If you can't make it up the climb with a 32x36t (the current standard) the you can probably walk it just as fast as running a 33x42t.

It seems like a cog that could deliver a serious amount of torque to a free hub (probably the reason it requires a special hub, so that you can't just slip it on any old hub and destroy it on the first climb), and it makes me think that a dirty drive train would just contribute to a lot of broken chains, bend 42t cogs etc.

All too often bike component makers spend too much time making bike riding easier to compensate for the fact that bikes riding has been made easier. Modifying the SS riders creed, you have 9 or 10 or 11 speeds, all your gears and walking and if the hill is too hard to climb ride more, don't make it easier to climb. That is the same as removing rocks in the trail because you can't clean them. Learn to ride your bike, first. Then buy stuff.
So you're saying that manufacturers shouldn't make gearing for people that have really long steep climbs or for people that can't quite make it up with higher gearing? We go out on our bikes to ride them and not to walk.

What about people like me that have a bad knee and need lower gearing to spin up the steep climbs? I guess I shouldn't be riding at all hey!

Options of any kind are great for the industry because they keep all of us riding. Choose a SS if you want but don't push them on others.
 
#55 ·
I'm running a 32 front 36 rear on my new heavy duty 29er. I can get up everything I have tried so far, but I haven't tried the really steep trails yet and I'm pretty sure it's going to be a struggle. Particularly if I'm tired or having an off day or it's a little slick. It's hard to modulate traction with too high of a gear.

I can't run a front der because it will be too far from the rings to shift right and would interfere with my rear linkage. So I'm stuck with 1 ring. Or a middle and a big ring. I can probably engineer some kind of adapter bracket but having a 28 42 would be great.

Personally I enjoy the accomplishment of riding up something that seems unridable. Going up it slowly isn't of concern. Walking up it sucks.

As far as having a 10 tooth high, that is good too for when you need it and have a single smaller ring. That is the whole point. Not to run a big ring with a 10.
 
#63 ·
Where I ride we keep our trails pretty cleared. Besides I've never had grass chew up a cluster. That must be some pretty bad ass grass lol.

I think you all are starting to reach a bit far in trying to come up with things about this this idea to criticize.

The only thing about it that I don't like is that I have to build a dedicated rear wheel to run it and use hubs I usually wouldn't buy. But...oh well. Besides if it does take off some of the smaller hub builders will likely jump on board.
 
#66 ·
Where I ride we keep our trails pretty cleared. Besides I've never had grass chew up a cluster. That must be some pretty bad ass grass lol.

I think you all are starting to reach a bit far in trying to come up with things about this this idea to criticize.
trust me, im not taking a swipe, my main problem with this is bigger clusters/narrow chains in general is that they get clogged up in long grass/heather more than older clusters that are more 'open'. i remember noticing a difference between the spacing (and clogging up) changing from a 6 speed to 7 speed way back when...

riding in scotland and sometimes on very overgrown trails (that only i seem to know exist it would appear).

all for innovation and a fan of sram although im 'all shimano' at the moment.
 
#79 ·
Well, I'm not going to replace my current drivetrain with this, but the 1x wide range cassette idea has merit and I'm interested to watch it develop. Both with the majors like SRAM and the little guys like Canfield, and presumably Hope, if they're still working on their integrated cassette.

This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but every bike forum I've read has way too much complaining from people about 'the industry' using 'marketing' to try and take their money and make them buy something new (29ers, 650b, tapered steerers, the list goes on). But there are a lot of people looking to buy at any given point, and besides I would guess the majority of bike sales are people buying new complete bikes, rather than enthusiasts building up a frame. I don't remember people complaining about having to buy a new car when side curtain airbags or traction control became common, but any advance in the bike industry has people screaming about being gouged rather than thinking "yeah, that might be cool when I get my next bike in a few years." (edit- like in the "Open letter to the bike industry" thread in Passion... :rolleyes:)
 
#98 ·
There is one thing to consider with having such a wide ratio range on a cassette and that is that if it had less cogs there would be even more space between choices. Not that that would be a deal breaker but proper gear choice is nice.

So $1500 is for everything including the dedicated wheel? Or are they offering just a hub? That's a lot but not too bad if the cassette is $400 by itself. Crankset, chain, shifter, hub, cassette, derailleur and what ever else.
 
#100 ·
I am currently riding XX and I have the following observations after nearly 2 seasons on it. Sram needed to make this change to 1X for the group to appeal to more rider types and terrain. It needed a wider / lower range availablity / ring versatility, particularly for 29rs. Current 2x10 XX was built for cross country racers in my opinion. Gazelle type creatures that ride fast all the time and push big gears. The current XX crank bolt pattern will not allow anything smaller that a 26t on the front. A 26 x 36 on a 29r is just not low enough for long high altitute climbing around here... unless you are a superfit gazell. Possible, yes but my relatively fit 47 year old knees protest after a long day in the saddle up high pushing a 26 x 36 over roots and rocks. Down lower in the high desert.. 26 x 36 is mostly ok but as a current XX user, I would like more ring options. It looks like the new group provides this.

I was thinking 1 x 10 already and was getting ready to (and probably will) purchase a different crank set that can fit a 24 tooth ring when I heard about this new group. I am thinking a double with a bash and 24 tooth ring. I will miss the high end (rarely) but will use more of the current cog stack.

In addition, these aforementioned racers are why you have a 10 tooth cog. Because the pros can push it and will use it. If the pros did not need / want the 10 tooth, it would not be on the stack. my two cents.
 
#103 ·
True...

I am currently riding XX and I have the following observations after nearly 2 seasons on it. Sram needed to make this change to 1X for the group to appeal to more rider types and terrain. It needed a wider / lower range availablity / ring versatility, particularly for 29rs. Current 2x10 XX was built for cross country racers in my opinion. Gazelle type creatures that ride fast all the time and push big gears. The current XX crank bolt pattern will not allow anything smaller that a 26t on the front. A 26 x 36 on a 29r is just not low enough for long high altitute climbing around here... unless you are a superfit gazell. Possible, yes but my relatively fit 47 year old knees protest after a long day in the saddle up high pushing a 26 x 36 over roots and rocks. Down lower in the high desert.. 26 x 36 is mostly ok but as a current XX user, I would like more ring options. It looks like the new group provides this.

I was thinking 1 x 10 already and was getting ready to (and probably will) purchase a different crank set that can fit a 24 tooth ring when I heard about this new group. I am thinking a double with a bash and 24 tooth ring. I will miss the high end (rarely) but will use more of the current cog stack.

In addition, these aforementioned racers are why you have a 10 tooth cog. Because the pros can push it and will use it. If the pros did not need / want the 10 tooth, it would not be on the stack. my two cents.
Most current and recent past drivetrains are geared too high for the average, fit, rider on a FS 29er, and probably even a 26" FS bike. Those who state otherwise, just take a look at what cassette cogs wear out first. I've never seen the small rear cogs wear out, even in my xc racer days on a 26" bike. In big hilly terrain, I use to easily push a 2:1 on a 29er SS and win races. Point is I know how to push big gears, but FS bike are ridden differently, and need to be geared differently.

Having the versatility to radically "customize" your drivetrain to your bike and style by changin one front ring is a huge, unprecedented, beneficial move.

The fly in the ointment is the 10t cog. Like tits on a bull, it is not needed, and worse yet, it's going to require costly hub modifications. SRAM is really dropping the ball on that point, and as I said before, Shimano will walk away with this if they use the same concept and eliminate the hub issue and drop the 10t.
 
#101 ·
I don't understand's some people's thinking. The last post made a point that I hoped more people would see, about this being oriented towards the racers, but the way he justifies how he should be on XX or XX1 just baffles me. Are triple cranksets just not cool anymore?
 
#102 ·
Theyre fine, IMO, my Stumpy has 3 x 9 and its fine, but ive ridden 2 x 10 and for me at least i think its better....

Reason being the Rear Der shifts far easier than the Front and with only one shift in either direction needed on the front i found it easier to react to the terrain without stalling.

Maybe its my style of riding or the type of terrain i encounter but when i tried it i just fell in love with it......thats why i feel that 1 x 11 would probably work in a similar way.
 
#114 ·
I agree Joe. The people who say they need a 10 or 11 rear cog must be riding fairly flat, groomed trails. Any sustained climbing or endless rollers and tech pretty much confirm what MikerJ said, that most cassettes have the middle cogs worn away before the smaller cogs.
 
#116 ·
I'm waiting for XX1 for my new build and I've been climbing in 24/32, which is a very similar ration to 32/42 of XX1. It is plenty low for anything I've done, and that includes 6+ mile climbs that gain 4,000+ft.

I love the simplicity of XX1, its why I want it.

My wheelset has DT 240 hubs and they are already coverted to work with the XX1 cassette. The xD freehub body isnt exactly cheap, but it is a simple swap that took minutes and the part is available now. I even upgraded to a 36 star racket while I had it apart. When ordering the XX1 freehub body make sure you get the right axle width. The end cap off the standard DT Swiss freehub body does NOT fit the xD freehub body.
 
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