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  1. #1
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    Spoke length - Will 1mm diff in ERD (DT Swiss to Stans Rims) be a problem?

    I am looking to replace my DT Swiss rims (ERD 606mm) with Stans Arch MK3 rims (ERD 605mm).

    I was hoping to reuse my existing straight pull spokes and nipples, which are in good shape and have maybe 150miles on em.

    Would 1mm be a major show stopper? Obv I understand that I'll have a longer effective spoke length on the Stans. My current set up is a 3 cross pattern.

    This is my first rodeo with building up wheels. Thanks for the insight!
    Last edited by eddieruko; 09-18-2017 at 12:46 PM.

  2. #2
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    You'll be OK. It would only make a 0.5 mm difference in calculated spoke length, which is in the rounding error range.

  3. #3
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    Technically, no, that would be a perfectly fine swap, however, listed ERDs are not always accurate, so the difference could be a lot more. Best advice I could give is to to take a look inside your current rim at the nipples and see how far up the spokes come into them, if they're at the top of the nipples or above, you could run into having the threads butting off and not being able to properly tension the wheels, if they're at or below the top of the nipple, you should be good.

    For help, go download Roger Musson's e-book on building wheels, worth every penny and you get free updates for life.
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  4. #4
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    Both posts above nailed it
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Technically, no, that would be a perfectly fine swap, however, listed ERDs are not always accurate, so the difference could be a lot more. Best advice I could give is to to take a look inside your current rim at the nipples and see how far up the spokes come into them, if they're at the top of the nipples or above, you could run into having the threads butting off and not being able to properly tension the wheels, if they're at or below the top of the nipple, you should be good.

    For help, go download Roger Musson's e-book on building wheels, worth every penny and you get free updates for life.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Technically, no, that would be a perfectly fine swap, however, listed ERDs are not always accurate, so the difference could be a lot more. Best advice I could give is to to take a look inside your current rim at the nipples and see how far up the spokes come into them, if they're at the top of the nipples or above, you could run into having the threads butting off and not being able to properly tension the wheels, if they're at or below the top of the nipple, you should be good.

    For help, go download Roger Musson's e-book on building wheels, worth every penny and you get free updates for life.
    thanks for the insight. new rims are on the way from Tree Fort. looking forward to giving this a whirl and a new set up with either Ikon or Mezcal tires.

  7. #7
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    Do you know/have a plan for the transfer? Simplest way is to tape the new rim to the old wheel (line up the valve holes) slacken off all the spokes really good and then transfer them one at a time over to the new rim starting with the spokes on the side nearest the new rim.. Once you've got them transferred, then simply take up the slack evenly on all (that's where the book comes into play to explain) and then finish up with final tension and truing.

    Quote Originally Posted by eddieruko View Post
    thanks for the insight. new rims are on the way from Tree Fort. looking forward to giving this a whirl and a new set up with either Ikon or Mezcal tires.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Do you know/have a plan for the transfer? Simplest way is to tape the new rim to the old wheel (line up the valve holes) slacken off all the spokes really good and then transfer them one at a time over to the new rim starting with the spokes on the side nearest the new rim.. Once you've got them transferred, then simply take up the slack evenly on all (that's where the book comes into play to explain) and then finish up with final tension and truing.
    I had come across that exact technique just a few minutes ago, doing the rims side by side, and one spoke at a time. I had previously imagined a spaghetti mess of spokes. Taping them together will help a bunch.

    I'm not really experienced in truing. The shop always checked and adjusted for me fo free since I bought my bike there.
    Last edited by eddieruko; 09-19-2017 at 09:49 AM.

  9. #9
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    Go pay the few dollars and download that e-book, it is worth every penny and then some. It will explain how to properly do a rim swap like this and how to build and tension wheels, very worth taking the time to read, will at least give you a better understanding of your wheels.

    Quote Originally Posted by eddieruko View Post
    I had come across that exact technique just a few minutes ago, doing them side. Inside and one at a time. I had imagined a spaghetti mess of spokes. Taping them together will help a bunch.

    I'm not really experienced in truing. The shop always checked and adjusted for me fo free since I bought my bike there.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Do you know/have a plan for the transfer? Simplest way is to tape the new rim to the old wheel (line up the valve holes) slacken off all the spokes really good and then transfer them one at a time over to the new rim starting with the spokes on the side nearest the new rim.. Once you've got them transferred, then simply take up the slack evenly on all (that's where the book comes into play to explain) and then finish up with final tension and truing.
    That's the prescribed method for rim transfer, but the one time I tried it I could not for the life of me get the spoke ends far enough into the new rim for the nipple threads to engage. I devised a new method of binding the spoke pairs together at the crossover junction with self-amalgamating tape: when the old rim comes off the spokes stay nicely in position.

    Spoke length -  Will 1mm diff in ERD (DT Swiss to Stans Rims) be a problem?-20170415_191658%2520cropped.jpg

    Naturally the spoke lengths were chosen for the old rim ERD (plus an allowance for nipple washers) so buying a new rim was a bit of a gamble, but as luck would have it the new rim ERD was the same as the old one minus two nipple washers, so I just left the nipple washers off and it was a perfect match.

    Another vote for Roger Musson's ebook; it really does contain everything you need to know.
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  11. #11
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    Thanks for the book recommendation. I've already learned quite a bit and inspired to take this on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grassington View Post
    That's the prescribed method for rim transfer, but the one time I tried it I could not for the life of me get the spoke ends far enough into the new rim for the nipple threads to engage. I devised a new method of binding the spoke pairs together at the crossover junction with self-amalgamating tape: when the old rim comes off the spokes stay nicely in position.
    Why do you think that doing one spoke at a time wouldn't work? Roger's recommendation seems to be that anything greater than 4mm delta in ERD could be problematic. From what I'm gathering, I really have no qualms about reusing my spokes on a different rim with a ERD delta of 1mm.

  12. #12
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    How to put this nicely I can't really, so I won't say anything

    Honestly, once you release all the nipples till they're barely holding onto the spokes and transfer the far side first and then do the near, it's a piece of cake and works really well - it's how I've done rim replacements all the time when I didn't have to cut out/replace spokes or hub and was within reasonable ERD.

    Quote Originally Posted by eddieruko View Post
    Why do you think that doing one spoke at a time wouldn't work? Roger's recommendation seems to be that anything greater than 4mm delta in ERD could be problematic. From what I'm gathering, I really have no qualms about reusing my spokes on a different rim with a ERD delta of 1mm.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    How to put this nicely I can't really, so I won't say anything

    Honestly, once you release all the nipples till they're barely holding onto the spokes and transfer the far side first and then do the near, it's a piece of cake and works really well - it's how I've done rim replacements all the time when I didn't have to cut out/replace spokes or hub and was within reasonable ERD.
    That's exactly what I'm expecting LyNx. I'm curious why Grassington may have had issues... trying to visualize/anticipate what problems I might encounter.

    The videos I've seen make the transition from one rim to the other with no trouble. In fact, it seems like it's more troublesome to tape/tie spokes together and remove them all at once.

    I can see the benefit of a nipple driver over a straight driver... but is it a huge advantage over a ratcheting screw driver with a flat head bit? I really don't anticipate building wheels or swapping spokes often.

  14. #14
    Mudhorse
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    ^ Yeah, I was wondering how people manage with the taped-together rims method, it certainly wasn't working for me. Possibly I didn't loosen the spokes enough due to the Nipple Rattling Off And Dropping In To The Rim Channel fear. Anyway, if I had to swap over a rim again I'd still use the taped spokes method - it takes about a minute to snip off 16 widths of sticky rubber tape and bind the spokes, and less time than that to cut them off again when finished, and there's no worrying about loosening the nipples to just the right amount, you just take them straight off. Also you get a rather neat rimless wheel as an intermediate step, which is the bit I really like.
    Hose me down till the water runs clear.

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