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Thread: spec butcher 29

  1. #1
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    spec butcher 29

    has anyone actually bought one? they went up and sold out super fast. im bummed, maybe my lbs can get me one.

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    I know I want one, I have the SX on my trail 26er bike.

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    Specialized is saying they'll be available sometime in December. I've ridden one, you won't be disappointed. Not as burly or as sticky as an SX, which I also ride, but by far Specialized's best 29er AM front yet, IMO.

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    Possibly new favorite

    I got one this weekend. Put on tubeless but didn't have enough sealant in there... so ran with a tube on my Stumpjumper (front wheel). It's noticeably softer than the purgatory control. Side knobs have a similar pattern although the siping is different and the knobs are a tad larger. Rolls decent and grips like a fiend! Love this tire already. Lots of confidence. Can't wait to run it tubeless and loos some of the rotating mass from the tube.

    Rode it on some long fireroad climbs and rocky rooty and damp downhill sections in Pisgah, NC.
    Last edited by Chicote; 10-08-2012 at 09:49 AM. Reason: missing letters and trail discription

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    Wouldn't mind a comparison between the butcher 2.3 and the Purgatory 2.3. Tires share a lot in common.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    Wouldn't mind a comparison between the butcher 2.3 and the Purgatory 2.3. Tires share a lot in common.
    I would like to hear this as well. Im thinking purg on the back and new butcher on front for fall winter and spring when the rear captain just does not have enough gription.

  7. #7
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    Butcher sidewalls feel a bit thicker, knobs are softer and casing feels a bit more pliable. Grips way better than a Purg, where the Purg starts feeling a little loose in a lean the Butcher bites right in. Personally, I think a Butcher would be a bit much on the rear, but the softer knobs could make it worth while if you do a lot of techy climbing. I've been a Butcher front guy for a few years on my 26, I'm going to be a Butcher 29 front guy as long as they offer it.

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    Anyone have one or two for sale? IF so, PM me..

    Thanks!

  9. #9
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    its on sale on spec website, in stock and everything...

  10. #10
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    My new favorite tire combo is Butcher front and Ground Control 2.3 on the rear. There's TONS of leaves on my trails and it's hardly noticeable The Butcher is fantastic as a front(haven't tried it on rear) and I've had the Ground Control 2.3 on the rear for about a month and am sold on it as well. They're both tougher than I would have guessed based on their weight and they're both a surprisingly grippy compound. They also weigh in close to what Spec said they would, which is a breath of fresh air in this current tire manufacturer con fest era we're stuck in. The only other tire I've tried that gripped anywhere as well was the Hans Dampf but I refuse to pay $70+ for a 900gr throw away tire. I wore one out to the point that knobs were tearing off in under 300 miles!

    Specialized finally sold me on one of their products! I'm impressed

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    Specialized finally sold me on one of their products! I'm impressed
    I've been riding and liking Specialized tires in AZ chunky for 4 years. My opinion, the Butcher is a little much for the rear. If you haven't tried a Purgatory 2.3 for a rear, give it a whirl, it's a bit more AMy than a Ground Control. I also like the GC. My fav combo, Butcher/Purgatory, but I'm riding in the dry..

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    So you Butcher guys, how do you think these tires would fair on the rear on wet roots? Also, how big is the Butcher measured for width and volume? My hope is that it would measure out bigger than claimed size, rather than smaller, which happens so often in the 29er tire world. I like my tires beefy.

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    Mine measures 2.18" at the casing and 2.22" from outside of knob to outside of knob. I'm using the AM Nancy Carbon Rims. I'm tubeless. Not the largest tire out there but it's plenty for me on my Prime with 140mm of travel

  14. #14
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    Hey DF, care to measure the seat and chain stays on your Prime, curious how wide the production ones are?

    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    Mine measures 2.18" at the casing and 2.22" from outside of knob to outside of knob. I'm using the AM Nancy Carbon Rims. I'm tubeless. Not the largest tire out there but it's plenty for me on my Prime with 140mm of travel
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Hey DF, care to measure the seat and chain stays on your Prime, curious how wide the production ones are?
    Both about 81.5mm.

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    How does the 29er version compare to the 26er version? Do the side lugs squirm around on hardpack like the SX does or are they better supported?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    How does the 29er version compare to the 26er version? Do the side lugs squirm around on hardpack like the SX does or are they better supported?
    Never had a squirm issue, ride my 26" SX at 33 psi, 29" Control at 28 psi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Never had a squirm issue, ride my 26" SX at 33 psi, 29" Control at 28 psi.
    Did they change the sx up? I bough it when it first came out and the side knobs feel like they have zero support when its hardpack or sandstone try riding.... As long as the wagon wheels dont then I shall add them to my wishlist when I get money again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    Mine measures 2.18" at the casing and 2.22" from outside of knob to outside of knob. I'm using the AM Nancy Carbon Rims. I'm tubeless. Not the largest tire out there but it's plenty for me on my Prime with 140mm of travel
    So bigger or smaller than a 2.4 Ardent 29er?
    konahonzo

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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Hey DF, care to measure the seat and chain stays on your Prime, curious how wide the production ones are?
    What Optimus said

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    Quote Originally Posted by eurospek View Post
    So bigger or smaller than a 2.4 Ardent 29er?
    I haven't measured an Ardent 2.4 but just eye balling, the Ardent is bigger. I can tell you though, the Butcher is a much better front for cornering and it's a tad bit lighter Stickier too. Rolls surprisingly well for how knobby it is

    The fact that the design is a popular downhill tire should be a credit to it's cornering prowess. Does Gee rock an Ardent??? No. Well, he doesn't rock a Butcher either, but you get my point...

    On my Prime with 140mm front and rear, volume isn't all that important to me anymore. I'm sure singlespeeders and hardtailers won't be satisfied but it's plenty large enough for me.

  22. #22
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    Ah, OK cool, was wondering how they'd feared during the tweaks into production, not bad at all, but still not PP wide
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Both about 81.5mm.
    Some tyres are like that, horribly so, the old Mtn.King was the worst I've ever experienced. Can't say looking the design that it looks like the knobs are so small to be like that, but riding a big knob tyre on serious hardpack can cause that. Heck riding nearly any of my tyres I run 2 different sets of pressures depending on what trail type I'll be riding; Slow, rocky, tech = lower PSI/ High speed, fast corners=Higher PSI.
    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    How does the 29er version compare to the 26er version? Do the side lugs squirm around on hardpack like the SX does or are they better supported?
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Never had a squirm issue, ride my 26" SX at 33 psi, 29" Control at 28 psi.
    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    Did they change the sx up? I bough it when it first came out and the side knobs feel like they have zero support when its hardpack or sandstone try riding.... As long as the wagon wheels dont then I shall add them to my wishlist when I get money again.
    Um, 130mm REAR/140mm FRONT
    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    On my Prime with 140mm front and rear, volume isn't all that important to me anymore. I'm sure singlespeeders and hardtailers won't be satisfied but it's plenty large enough for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    I haven't measured an Ardent 2.4 but just eye balling, the Ardent is bigger. I can tell you though, the Butcher is a much better front for cornering and it's a tad bit lighter Stickier too. Rolls surprisingly well for how knobby it is

    The fact that the design is a popular downhill tire should be a credit to it's cornering prowess. Does Gee rock an Ardent??? No. Well, he doesn't rock a Butcher either, but you get my point...

    On my Prime with 140mm front and rear, volume isn't all that important to me anymore. I'm sure singlespeeders and hardtailers won't be satisfied but it's plenty large enough for me.
    Thanks for that, good to know it's skinnier, then I won't have trouble fitting the 2.3 in the back of my Honzo.
    konahonzo

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    I just put a Butcher Control casing 2.3 on a Flow rim this morning. It's brand-new and still with a tube while the bead forms (something I always do with new tires). I didn't measure, but it appears to be RADICALLY smaller than the 2.4 Ardent/Flow combo I run on my Yelli. That said, the 2.4 Ardent is an enormous tire.

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    Butcher / Schwalbe comparisons...

    Anyone out there done any comparisons with the Hans Dampf or Nobby Nic? I used to be a devout Purgatory and Captain user, but when I tried the Schwalbe tires, I was sold on their grip. However, like everyone else, I do not like how they wear out so quickly. My other gripe with the Specialized tires were the thin sidewalls... I like to run low pressures and it seems like the Specialized sidewalls would just wrinkle up on you when you catch some air and sometimes burp. Never had this problem with the Schwalbe tires and seems they are a little stickier also, which is great here in the Southeast, where we have lots of wet roots and rocks. My first experience with Schwalbe tires was the Hans Dampf on my 26" Stumpy and fell in love with the rollability and grip. However, when I went exclusively 29", the Hans seems to roll much slower and is a heavy beast. But like you guys, I do not like spending the $$$ on Schwalbes and them start deteriorating so fast! That is the thing I did like about the Purgatorys... they did roll very well for such and large knob tire, just wish they had thicker sidewalls and a grippier rubber compound. What have you guys experienced?

  26. #26
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    So, you just want some super UNOBTANIUM rubber compound that is super sticky, yet somehow miraculously does not wear fast

    Quote Originally Posted by shutterbug67 View Post
    Anyone out there done any comparisons with the Hans Dampf or Nobby Nic? I used to be a devout Purgatory and Captain user, but when I tried the Schwalbe tires, I was sold on their grip. However, like everyone else, I do not like how they wear out so quickly. My other gripe with the Specialized tires were the thin sidewalls... I like to run low pressures and it seems like the Specialized sidewalls would just wrinkle up on you when you catch some air and sometimes burp. Never had this problem with the Schwalbe tires and seems they are a little stickier also, which is great here in the Southeast, where we have lots of wet roots and rocks. My first experience with Schwalbe tires was the Hans Dampf on my 26" Stumpy and fell in love with the rollability and grip. However, when I went exclusively 29", the Hans seems to roll much slower and is a heavy beast. But like you guys, I do not like spending the $$$ on Schwalbes and them start deteriorating so fast! That is the thing I did like about the Purgatorys... they did roll very well for such and large knob tire, just wish they had thicker sidewalls and a grippier rubber compound. What have you guys experienced?
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    So, you just want some super UNOBTANIUM rubber compound that is super sticky, yet somehow miraculously does not wear fast
    conti black chili is exactly that. you will pay for it though and I'm not sure it has made it to 29er tires yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by b-kul View Post
    conti black chili is exactly that. you will pay for it though and I'm not sure it has made it to 29er tires yet.
    You can get black chilli mountain king 29's and probably others too.

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    interesting, maybe as a rear someday. i am pretty pumped with a butcher up front atm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by b-kul View Post
    interesting, maybe as a rear someday. i am pretty pumped with a butcher up front atm.
    Hammered my Butcher through some very rocky downhill yesterday, it did well, but you can certainly tell the difference between the Control casing and the SX. For that type of abuse I may push up around 35 psi.

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    Really, is it anything like Schwalbe's Super Gooey or whatever it is where knobs start tearing of almost instantly? If by some miracle it is in fact able to do what you say (highly doubt it) of course it would cost a lot.
    Going from my experience with motor racing and tyre compounds there, I cannot see that bicycles have a more advanced compounds than car tyres and there are NONE that do what you are saying the Black Chilly does - if they stick like crazy, they will not last, period, it is scientifically impossible.

    Now your definition of last long and mine vary greatly and that may be the difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by b-kul View Post
    conti black chili is exactly that. you will pay for it though and I'm not sure it has made it to 29er tires yet.
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  32. #32
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    You may not know, but the Purgatory has been changed. It is now in a 2.3, has a slightly different design, and new rubber compound. The new Purgatory is much better than old in the 26" version. I run the Butcher/Purgatory combo on my 26'er, and plan on running the butcher on the front of my 29er when I change. Unfortunately the Purg won't fit on a 2012 429.
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    Just wanted to follow up briefly on my initial post. I picked up a 29x2.3 Butcher Control casing to run as a front on my new Satori.Installed tubeless on a Flow and got two rides in over the weekend.

    Running at around 24psi, I'm a bit disappointed in the size. It's not by any means a large-volume tire. Viewing it next to a 2.4 Ardent also at 24 psi on a Flow, the difference in size is striking. That said, I was very pleased with it's overall performance. Wish it was a touch bigger, but I'm overall pleased with it as I don't necessarily need a ton of volume on this rig like I do on my Yelli Screamy.

  34. #34
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    I haven't had much luck running below 27 psi on any 2.3 29er front. I find that they start to get a little squirmy right about the time that I start smacking rims. In fact, I like my Butcher at 28ish, on a WTB i23 Frequency.

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    Just rode 38 miles on the Butcher 2.3 front and Purg 2.2 rear yesterday. Lots of gravel climbing and gnarly downhill (Swank 65 race). Running tubeless on stock Spec fsr 29er comp rims. It's definitely my new favorite tire. So confidence inspiring. Used to love the Nevegals on my 26, then loved the Purgs up front on my 29 now I love the Butcher. Ran at 30psi front and rear. Geared up I'm about 200.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicote View Post
    Just rode 38 miles on the Butcher 2.3 front and Purg 2.2 rear yesterday. Lots of gravel climbing and gnarly downhill (Swank 65 race). Running tubeless on stock Spec fsr 29er comp rims. It's definitely my new favorite tire. So confidence inspiring. Used to love the Nevegals on my 26, then loved the Purgs up front on my 29 now I love the Butcher. Ran at 30psi front and rear. Geared up I'm about 200.
    I tend to run similar pressure tubeless as that I used to tubed. There is definitely a better trail feel tubeless at 28-30ish, but without too much danger of rim hits or overly flexy tire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    I tend to run similar pressure tubeless as that I used to tubed. There is definitely a better trail feel tubeless at 28-30ish, but without too much danger of rim hits or overly flexy tire.
    Exactly. If i wasn't racing I'd drop the pressure a bit. I didn't want to chance any maintenance on trail during the race.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Really, is it anything like Schwalbe's Super Gooey or whatever it is where knobs start tearing of almost instantly? If by some miracle it is in fact able to do what you say (highly doubt it) of course it would cost a lot.
    Going from my experience with motor racing and tyre compounds there, I cannot see that bicycles have a more advanced compounds than car tyres and there are NONE that do what you are saying the Black Chilly does - if they stick like crazy, they will not last, period, it is scientifically impossible.

    Now your definition of last long and mine vary greatly and that may be the difference.
    no, it really does last well. at least as long as a 60a maxxis but with better grip. of course it is not the stickiest tire going but as for the grip/ wear ratio it is the best going. try one out.

  39. #39
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    Well cool, will have to pick one up soon and give it a go and see how it fears. You can never have too many tyres right, kind of like the bike equation N+1 for the amount you should own Need to find out what compound the proto HR2 was that I got to test.

    Quote Originally Posted by b-kul View Post
    no, it really does last well. at least as long as a 60a maxxis but with better grip. of course it is not the stickiest tire going but as for the grip/ wear ratio it is the best going. try one out.
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  40. #40
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    Threw one of these on the front of my 29er yesterday. All I can say so far is I was a bit dissapointed at first. This is the only and first spesh tire that I could not inflate with a floor pump tubeless. Also the volume is on the small size since my 2.2 captain is bigger, hopefully it will stretch. The grip though is amazing!!! about time time that we start getting big boy treads for the 29er that dont weigh a ton. Coming off a purgatory in the front this tire beats it everywhere. I was a bit surprised.

  41. #41
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    Really, guess I share your surprise. What type of surface trail conditions are we talking here?

    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    Threw one of these on the front of my 29er yesterday. All I can say so far is I was a bit dissapointed at first. This is the only and first spesh tire that I could not inflate with a floor pump tubeless. Also the volume is on the small size since my 2.2 captain is bigger, hopefully it will stretch. The grip though is amazing!!! about time time that we start getting big boy treads for the 29er that dont weigh a ton. Coming off a purgatory in the front this tire beats it everywhere. I was a bit surprised.
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  42. #42
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    our trails in colorado springs are a mix of ugly cornering conditions. It ranges from 4" deep gravel scree trails to ball bearing type rocks and dust over hardpack. You will be hard pressed to find a place that it is no loose and scary. google "captain jacks" or "pipeline" and that will give you idea. We also have big sandstone rocks that we ride on or around "palmer park". But it is dry most of the year.

  43. #43
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    I've ridden the Colorado Trail doing the Monarch Crest Loop, I've been on that scree and deep loose gravel, so I know where you're coming from. When I did it it was the only time I ever used the Nevegal I have and I ran it upfront and was damn glad I did. I've been fairly happy with my HR2 proto I've been running off and on for the last about year, lots of grips, nice big, spaced knobs and still for the grip rolls fairly decently - wonder how the Butcher would compare.
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  44. #44
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    Sounds like you have done some of the fun trails in Colorado for sure. I can't wait for that tire to come out so I can give it a try. You lucky proto guys!!!


    I tapped that

  45. #45
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    There was another thread somewhere about this tire and I posed this question but never got a response so I'll ask again and perhaps someone who has tried it can comment. Looking at images of the Butcher, I notice that it has four distinct rows of knobs with a gap between the middle and shoulder knobs. In other words there is no transition. The last Specialized tire that was like this was the Eskar which I didn't like. The lack of transition was very noticeable. I wasn't the only person to comment and the model didn't last very long.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  46. #46
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    whats the question? is there transition knobs or will the butcher last?

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    Quote Originally Posted by b-kul View Post
    whats the question? is there transition knobs or will the butcher last?
    Obviously there are no transition knobs. The question therefore is it very noticeable if you are only partially leaned over. Is there loss of traction unless you are hard over onto the edge knobs. When I said "last" I meant that the Eskar was not well received because of this and was taken out of production.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  48. #48
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    Most of the Butchers look like WTB Dissent clones, I've never experienced a loss of traction like that and reviews have generally been in praise of the Dissent's traction. Wouldn't mind giving these a go when my Dissents wear out, they're like half the weight a real plus.

    I can remember forum members cutting off transition knobs Nevegals to improve cornering traction like a Maxxis Minon DH, of course that has a similar tread pattern to a Dissent(or vice versa) as well. Might depend on just how meaty those side knobs are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
    Obviously there are no transition knobs. The question therefore is it very noticeable if you are only partially leaned over. Is there loss of traction unless you are hard over onto the edge knobs. When I said "last" I meant that the Eskar was not well received because of this and was taken out of production.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    I've been fairly happy with my HR2 proto I've been running off and on for the last about year, lots of grips, nice big, spaced knobs and still for the grip rolls fairly decently - wonder how the Butcher would compare.
    Same here. It'll be hard finding a tire that will make me want to remove it from the front of my Prime. Did you score any of the recent AM tires? I wonder if they'll release the HR2 in the spring... we've been riding this tire forever...
    Tire Design & Development Engineer. The opinions expressed in this forum are solely my own.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by socal_jack View Post
    Most of the Butchers look like WTB Dissent clones, I've never experienced a loss of traction like that and reviews have generally been in praise of the Dissent's traction. Wouldn't mind giving these a go when my Dissents wear out, they're like half the weight a real plus.

    I can remember forum members cutting off transition knobs Nevegals to improve cornering traction like a Maxxis Minon DH, of course that has a similar tread pattern to a Dissent(or vice versa) as well. Might depend on just how meaty those side knobs are.

    Convert your Kenda Nevegal from zero to HERO!
    My limited understanding, based on Internet reading, is that the Minion and the Butcher were both designed by Chris Wyatt, the latter after he left Maxxis for Specialized.

    I have no time on the Eskars, or the Minions or Butchers for that matter, but my 26" riding friends rave about the cornering grip of the Minions, as do many forum posters. Search the forums for both names and you'll see what I've seen. I wouldn't worry about the Butchers, personally.
    "Back off, man. I'm a scientist." - Dr. Peter Venkman

    Riding in Helena? Everything you need to know, right here.

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