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  1. #1
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    Successful 29er TUBELESS CONVERSION SETUPs ( 29’’)

    Coming from 26’’world with 3 bikes successfully running tubeless for past 4 years and ZERO flats. Nice history. I am using mostly Eclipse (DT Swiss) conversion kits but STAN’s works similarly.

    NOW after crossing to 29’’ world and my first 29er bike (I love it) and 26ers start collecting dust at home, I am frustrated, say at least a bit. No tubeless tires (except Crow now), tires too big for tubeless conversion and difficult to inflate even with strips.

    I’ve spent a lot of time toying with 2 sets of rims and tires:

    Rims) Amer. Classic MTB-350 29’’ and Bontrager Race Lite 29’’
    Tires) Bontrager 2.2 ACX 29’’ and Maxxis Ignitors 2.1

    and of course Stan’s strips and yellow tape.

    Sofar, any combination is failing and after many hours, no success, even with compressor at home and on the gas station.

    HERE IT IS:
    ****************
    CAN WE SHARE HERE WORKING combination of RIMS, TIRES, PREPARATION PROCEDURES (e.g. USING STANS STRIPs or leaving the orig. spoke strip intact).

    I am sure many of us struggled the same way and letting us know what was the secret of the success for you, can help the other.

    Let me and other please know your successful 29’’ tubeless conversion procedure/ setup.
    ************************************************** ************************************************** ***

    Many thanks Pete
    Last edited by Ride_2_Fast; 06-25-2006 at 02:06 PM.

  2. #2
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    American Classics:
    Nano Raptors wire bead and Specialized Fast Tracks
    Rim set up:
    3m strapping tape
    Stans valve stem
    electric tape (the good stuff)
    Stans sealant

    Sanded in side of rim lightly
    cleaned with rubbing alcohol
    strapping tape
    electric tape
    poke hole for valve stem
    place tube in tire pump up to 60 psi this set tape
    deflate remove tube
    add tubless stem
    add stans
    spray soapy water around wheel air up to until bead snaps
    do the shake and spin
    mine hold air for at least 5 days without losing more than 1-3 psi.
    The Nano's sealed up quick, but the Specialized needed a little help with some watered down degreaser around tire instead of soap.
    Used a compressor also.
    Team Mate has the Kevlar nanos and has no problems we are both 6'ft 170+ XC racers

  3. #3
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    Try different rims. Mavic or Stans.

    I have inflated Maxis Ignitors on Mavic XC 717 disc rims with a floor pump, using rim strips.

  4. #4
    POG
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    I've done...

    wire and kevlar bead notos, wire bead motoraptor and exiwolf, and now the crow. The wire beads were the hardest to seal for me. The beads are super loose and (of course) not flexible. I find that using a paint brush and working the soap and water into the bead until achieving an almost shaving cream like consistency works best. I've done them hanging and on the floor. Actually worked best for me to leave the tire/wheel on the ground then lift it with the inflator while holding the tire above the stem - let's you sort of work the bead/rim connection a bit. I don't think I could ever seal one of the loose fitting wire bead tires with a floor pump.

  5. #5
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    Rim's

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. RMB
    Try different rims. Mavic or Stans.

    I have inflated Maxis Ignitors on Mavic XC 717 disc rims with a floor pump, using rim strips.
    Rims are the key. I use Stan's rims at 225lbs and they work great with Ignitors, Nanos and Exis.

    Just the tape and sealant (no rim strip).

    Pure bliss

  6. #6
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    I have run Stan's rims with yellow tape and olympic strips with folding Kenda Karmas and Specialized Fast Tracks. 30-35# no toubles at all.

    I also have run Cane Creek Carbon Zonos wheels with the Karmas using strapping tape, electric tape and 26" std rim strips. No problems.

    I mounted (all folding tires) Bontrager's, IRC Mythos, and Ignitors and the beads felt very loose and unsafe. I did not have the gonads to ride them. The Karmas and FastTracks fit tight on both sets of wheels.

  7. #7
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    Velocity VXC rims with Stan's 26" rimstrips, Ignitor rear and wire bead Exi front.

    drilled out inner valve hole on both rims. mounted both tires with tubes first and let them sit for a week (probably didn't need to be that long, I was waiting on parts for the build). used soapy water, 2 scoops of fluid in each tire, and compressed air.

    sealed quickly and easily, held air well from the start. No problems after at least 20 hours of riding.

  8. #8
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    Anyone have any luck with Salsa Delgados? I spent a while trying to get the tires to seat on the rim, but got no dice.

    What's the trick with the soap suds?

  9. #9
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    Bonty Rims

    I have bonti rims with wire bead motoraptors, my multiple flats per ride are history. I'm not kidding, The Africa terrain I live in has thorns like nowhere else. I use my own sealant mix, similar to what is commonly used by mtbr members.
    I am using the split tube method (shraeder valve) with a velox strip underneath to creat a tight fit for the tire. Link here: http://www.geocities.com/etrexkb/no_flat.htm
    I like having a valve attached to my rim strip, and the rubber to rubber contact seems very air-tight, although I haven't tried very -low pressures (under 25psi.) The shraeder valve makes adding sealant a breeze.
    The only thing I don't like is that if the tire get's totally deflated for some reason (adding sealant), the seal can easily break and I have to re-air with a compressor. With the tire to rim method (ala stans) the sealant bonds the tire and rim so that the tire is almost glued on. Once you get a good seal, you can air up with a minipump when you go flat.
    Since 26" shraeder tubes are in abundance here, I am using that for my rim strip.

  10. #10
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    Made my own rimstrips from some 24" tubes....I will spare you the details because while the worked REALLY well...they did not work as good as the Stan's I am now running.

    I now run delgados (non disc) with Exiwolf tires
    follow the directions pertaining to 29er delgados exactly on the stan's site (i.e. use 2 layers of velox strips to build up the center section, install strip after drilling the valve hole.

    This proceedure is well documented on the stans site. I think most people will have good results if they use the rim compatibilty chart that Stan has on his site, and follor the directions EXACTLY!

    I selaed them with a Park floor pump...aired up easily as stan claimed.

    down side....
    If I run 25 psi or lower, I can and will burp air pressure and eventually break the seal. I ride very hard, and dont shy from jumps and such. If i keep the pressure over 30psi I have no problems.

    When you push the beads inward you can hear air rushing out (burping). this takes a great deal of force.

    My next plan is to try the ZTR free ride rims. according to the stan they seal up much better and if you push the beads together air does not rush out. Can anyone running these rims confirm this? Does anyone test their seals as Stan shows in the videos?

    http://www.notubes.com/moviecompar.php

    Thanks
    My ego is bigger and better looking than yours.

  11. #11
    Always Learning
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    Quote Originally Posted by bstiff
    Anyone have any luck with Salsa Delgados? I spent a while trying to get the tires to seat on the rim, but got no dice.

    What's the trick with the soap suds?
    Delgado Disc rims or Delgado X rims?

    The NoTubes site says not to use Stans with the Delgado Disc rims.

    http://www.notubes.com/support_selecting.php

    BB

  12. #12
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    I was pretty skeptical too coming from 26in wheels last April.
    Stans Olympic Rims
    Kenda Karmas(standard tire)
    yellow rim tape(bought from Stans for 5 bucks)
    I have been "Stansing" Kendas for about 2 years now so I know a lot of little tricks. These mounted quite easily though don't inflate them past 35#s. It might stretch out the bead.
    Knock on wood but no problems yet. As a matter of fact I had to have the wheel trued for a race the other day and the took of my tire in order for it to fit on the trueing stand. Slapped the tire on and aired it right back up again. No problems.
    I am going to convert my Bontrager Race Rims next, though I will use the Stans Rubber Rim strip for those.
    paz afuera

  13. #13
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! One more point

    I started using the 26" wheeled UST system when it first came out.

    Used several tire combos (UST and non UST). Stan’s rims are by far better than any UST system I have used in the past.

  14. #14
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    Several Successful Setups

    For all applications, I use StanStrips and DIY sealant (latex/slime/AF/2water)
    So far I have done -

    Matrix road rims with wire bead MotoRaptors - took patience to get the strips into these rims w/o buckling, but it worked (rim a bit too narrow)

    StanZTR rims with FastTrak, Ignitor, wire MotoRaptor (used)

    All of the new tires have gone together easily - the Moto I switched rims on was a bit of a problem.

    I always use an air tank to seat the bead. I apply soap/water with a squirt bottle set to "spray" and shoot it directly into the bead/rim gap all around. And if all else fails - give the wheel a spin (1 rev then stop) and then hit it with air quickly before the sealant can get very far. If you spin and wait, you will have sealant drooling all over the place. But done quickly, its a sure thing for seating. Learned this on 26ers.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  15. #15
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    stan's w / salsa delgado's and mytho's

    has been been great for me and im 250 lbs w/o gear. zero flats in 6 month's riding rooty, rocky east coast terrain.
    EAST COAST
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  16. #16
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    Delgado Cross, Schwalbe Big Apple 2.35", non-ZTR Stan's 29" strips, cork bar tape underneith.

    Older ZTR rims with Stan's 29" ZTR strips, Fast Traks and Karma's. Karma's require thicker goo solution when home mixing.

  17. #17
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    stans ztr rims with the yellow tape. (he sent the rims with strips too, said they were optional, so I didn't use them)

    Kenda Karma's - zero issues.

    They tires are very tight on the rim. I have run low pressure nad snapped the tire off on angled rock more than a few times. Never burped air.

    I would like just a tad more grip in the front, but they just roll so fast, it's hard to change to something else.

  18. #18
    Category Winner
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    Here's a guy who puts on a few miles once and awhile.
    With pics? Yummy.
    http://epicriding.blogspot.com/2006/...-tubeless.html
    WWW.TEAMDICKY.COM

    I get paid 3¢ every time I post on MTBR.

  19. #19
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    another option

    Posted this reply in another thread recently, but this seems like a good place too.

    I've had success with Maxxis rimstrips. $5 on their website. Plus Stan's sealant.

    On DT 7.1 with Maxxis Ignitors. Had to use the stock plastic rimstirp, plus two layers of strapping tape(with fibers). The Maxxis strip goes on top of that. About 1.5 scoops of Stans per tire. Able to inflate with floor pump when I pumped REALLY fast. Once bead is seated, no issues. I've used this setup for several races now... loses very little air in a week.

    On Bontrager Superstock wheels with wire bead EXIs. Stock rimstrip(cloth), plus one layer of strapping tape. About 1.5 scoops of Stans per tire. Again, took some initial FAST pumping to seat, but then no problems. A few rides on this setup so far.

    Maxxis strips come in different widths/depths for 26inch wheels. Since you're stretching them so much, I don't think the model number matters all that much, but I ordered according to my 29in wheel's depth/width.

  20. #20
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    MC 29er stock rims & notubes?

    Has anyone successfully converted the stock Alex rims and EXI tires that come on a Monocog 29er? If so, which rimstrips did you use?

    Thanks!

  21. #21
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    29er Stans 355 w/ Fastracks...

    have worked great for me with only the yellow tape (once the trails dried out ). Will need to find a different tire for Fall/Winter. Like how light the rims and tires were, wheelset is probably the same as average 26", but with all the advantages of the big wheels.
    that rug really tied the room together.

  22. #22
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    DT RR 1.1 built up with 2-sided foam and sealed with strapping tape, Maxxis Ignitor, 2 scoops. Inflated with a compressor and took ~an hour of messing with it to get it to stop leaking and hold air. Had to add air after the first three rides (ridden by my 115lb wife). On the fourth ride the tire (front) blew off the rim on a descent. She bled and bruised but didn't break.

    Stans ZTR 355, yellow tape, Maxxis Ignitor, 2 scoops. Inflated with a floor pump, sealant did it's job in just a few minutes. About 3 minutes into the first ride, the tire blew off the rim. No injuries, but that was strike two.

    Stans ZTR 355, yellow tape, IRC Mythos R, 2 scoops. Inflated with a floor pump, sealant did it's job in just a few minutes. Rode it around the yard, around the block, up and down a few curbs, etc... to get it seated. No burps, no leaks. Tire blew off on the way to the trailhead. Strike three, and no more tubeless for the wife.

    I've used various combinations of 700c rims and 29" tires without tubes over the last 5 years. Mavic rims, Bontrager rims, Stans rims, Salsa rims, and Zipp rims. WTB, IRC, Kenda, and Maxxis tires. All using Stans strips and sealant. All have inflated and sealed, but all have also ultimately failed, some quicker than others. It's rare for any of them to last more than a few rides. The best, most durable, longest lasting setup was the Kris Holm Unicycle rim, Stans DH rim strip, and a WTB wire bead Exiwolf. The rears last a few rides at best before I punch holes through the tread (riding sharp rocks) or tear a sidewall. I had one front that lasted ~6 months, but typically they only last a few rides before the tire fails.

    MC

  23. #23
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    DT RR 1.1 rims on a wheelset built by mikesee, Stans 26 inch rim strips, homemade sealant and Nanoraptor tires. 165 pound rider on a GF Rig racing hardpack conditions in Michigan.

    I have tried many 26 inch tubeless tire setups and expected to have some difficulty. Much to my suprise, tires inflated with small compressor on first attempt and held air overnight. No problems the next day during a 20 mile easy ride so I decided to use them at my next race, an 8 hour race. I had a brake issue during the race and switched to my 1FG for a lap. After that lap, I was a 29er converter.

    Tires held air during the entire race without issue. Mileage was around 100, 50% singletrack. Four days later, still at same pressure.

  24. #24
    Flight Junkie
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    Stan's rims, Yellow tape, 1 1/2 scoops sealant and Ignitors. Aired with floor pump and have held since (4 months now). Hope they continue...
    ROTOR HEAD

  25. #25
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    Easton Sagitta (CX)
    Ritchey 42c ZEDs
    Stan's

    Bontrager Race Lite Disc
    WTB NanoRaptors (steel)
    Stan's

    Bontrager Race Lite Disc
    WTB ExiWolf
    Stan's

    Bontrager Race Lite Disc
    Maxxis Ignitor
    Stan's

    Bontrager Race Disc
    Maxxis Ignitor
    Stan's

    WTB SpeedDisc
    WTB ExiWolf
    Stan's
    Velox Rim Tape

    WTB SpeedDisc
    Maxis Ignitor
    Stan's

    3 things I always do that make the tire inflate on first try :
    1) put baby powder on Stan's strip to seat evenly
    2) mix dishsoap and water, apply to rim and tire contact area
    3) unscrew valve core from stem, inflate with compressor, put stem back in

    My tubeless wheels have been flawless.

  26. #26
    caffeine dependent
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown
    Delgado Disc rims or Delgado X rims?

    The NoTubes site says not to use Stans with the Delgado Disc rims.

    http://www.notubes.com/support_selecting.php

    BB
    Thanks for the link. I hadn't come up with that one. I'm running Delgado Discs. I wonder what the story is on the toobless incompatibility?

  27. #27
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    It's been my experience that nearly every manufacturer will state not compatible with tubeless but we know better. Some of the items that Stans won't endorse have some back story such as the DTSwiss hubs. It doesn't mean they won't build up well. Stand just won't offer you much support if it fails.

    I am seeing several DTSwiss hubs built on the discontinued Olympic and the new ZTR hoops that have tied and soldered spokes to extend the virtual flange. The trick is finding someone that knows what they are doing with that type of build. I am real curious to see how some of the lighter tubeless setups work over time with riders over 160lbs. Mostly, I want to see how the hub bearings hold up.

  28. #28
    i heart singletrack
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    Quote Originally Posted by unsub1

    3 things I always do that make the tire inflate on first try :
    1) put baby powder on Stan's strip to seat evenly
    2) mix dishsoap and water, apply to rim and tire contact area
    3) unscrew valve core from stem, inflate with compressor, put stem back in

    My tubeless wheels have been flawless.
    Good points. Other than the Bontrager Jones ACX (which broke a bead and blew off the rim after two days), I've had complete success with every 29er tire I've converted, including:
    • WTB: Wire beaded Nano and Moto Raptor and ExiWolf
    • Kenda Karma
    • IRC Mythos XC II
    • Bontrager Jones XR (the big ones - after my initial bad experience with the Jones ACX, I was hesitant to try the XR tubeless, until T. Brown told me he'd been doing it successfully for quite some time.)


    I've successfully mounted and ridden on each of these tires for at least a month at a time without issues. None have blown off the rim, despite bashing, jumping and beating them just as I would any tubed tires.

    My current setup is a Jones XR on the front and a Karma on the rear, both tubeless with my Mold Builder and windshield washer fluid-based "getto Stan's" solution sealing them up.

    I've done this successfully with Mavic A719 and Salsa Delgado X (non-disc-specific) rims, taped with one pass of strapping tape, two passes of electrical tape and a cut down 24-inch tube as the rim strip/valve. I've also used Stan's 26-inch rim strips stretched to fit the larger wheel with good success.

  29. #29
    POG
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    You are the Stan's blow-off King!

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    DT RR 1.1 built up with 2-sided foam and sealed with strapping tape, Maxxis Ignitor, 2 scoops. Inflated with a compressor and took ~an hour of messing with it to get it to stop leaking and hold air. Had to add air after the first three rides (ridden by my 115lb wife). On the fourth ride the tire (front) blew off the rim on a descent. She bled and bruised but didn't break.

    Stans ZTR 355, yellow tape, Maxxis Ignitor, 2 scoops. Inflated with a floor pump, sealant did it's job in just a few minutes. About 3 minutes into the first ride, the tire blew off the rim. No injuries, but that was strike two.

    Stans ZTR 355, yellow tape, IRC Mythos R, 2 scoops. Inflated with a floor pump, sealant did it's job in just a few minutes. Rode it around the yard, around the block, up and down a few curbs, etc... to get it seated. No burps, no leaks. Tire blew off on the way to the trailhead. Strike three, and no more tubeless for the wife.

    I've used various combinations of 700c rims and 29" tires without tubes over the last 5 years. Mavic rims, Bontrager rims, Stans rims, Salsa rims, and Zipp rims. WTB, IRC, Kenda, and Maxxis tires. All using Stans strips and sealant. All have inflated and sealed, but all have also ultimately failed, some quicker than others. It's rare for any of them to last more than a few rides. The best, most durable, longest lasting setup was the Kris Holm Unicycle rim, Stans DH rim strip, and a WTB wire bead Exiwolf. The rears last a few rides at best before I punch holes through the tread (riding sharp rocks) or tear a sidewall. I had one front that lasted ~6 months, but typically they only last a few rides before the tire fails.

    MC

    I'm curious about what pressures you were running or why you think you had so many blow off episodes? I've stayed with wire bead tires due to fear of blow offs but obviously a lot of people are using folding beads with success.

    Also, are you saying that a Stan's set up makes a tire more susceptible to sidewall cuts?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by POG
    I'm curious about what pressures you were running or why you think you had so many blow off episodes? I've stayed with wire bead tires due to fear of blow offs but obviously a lot of people are using folding beads with success.

    Also, are you saying that a Stan's set up makes a tire more susceptible to sidewall cuts?
    In the wife's tires I typically run 22-26psi. I run mine typically at 26-29psi. Never over 30psi in any of them.

    Any DIY tubeless setup makes a tire more susceptible to flats from sidewall cuts. If you cut or nick the sidewall, the sealant may or may not be able to seal it. If there's a tube in there, you'd have to cut the tire and the tube. With respect to sidewall cuts, my experience is that I rarely cut the tube, and (if running tubeless) the sealant is never able to fix it.

    MC

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by teamdicky
    Here's a guy who puts on a few miles once and awhile.
    With pics? Yummy.
    http://epicriding.blogspot.com/2006/...-tubeless.html
    I just discoverd this thread. I will add a few details to the set up I have been running.

    I am using:

    DT Swiss RR 1.1 Rims
    Maxxis Ignitors
    26" tubes for rim strips
    Stans NoTubes sealant.

    2 days ago I re-did the set up. The tube sort of bonds to the tire, creating the seal. It is easily pealed off without doing any damage to the tire. This time around I added 2 scoops, instead of 1.5 of the sealant.

    I have had some very good results using this DIY set up. The KTR was the acid test, and I had no problems at all over the 142 miles. Since then I have raced/ridden many miles with no problems. I am not a light weight either, sitting at 173lbs. Every few days I top off the tires as normal. I usually run ~35lbs of pressure. I have been told that running anything over 40lbs is not recommended for this set up.

    I will admit that I was skeptical about this set-up, but it has worked very very well.
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  32. #32
    Let's ride
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    Stans 355 rims, yellow tape, maxxis ignitors, 1.5 scoops, ~20psi, 2 weeks, 50 miles, no issues. Had to air up with compressor.

    150lb rider, SIR9, pace29, i9 wheels.

    So far the setup is great, and can't wait to get it on more trails. Went through some small, sharp rock gardens already. Small burp once on a landing. Going to go up a few psi in air.

    Entire stans notubes related items, including 1.5 scoop of sealant was right at 100g total per wheel.

  33. #33
    holy schfincter..
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    Anyone successfully convert the new 29er DT swiss 340 rims? I have yet to try.

  34. #34
    I live to bike
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    In the wife's tires I typically run 22-26psi. I run mine typically at 26-29psi. Never over 30psi in any of them.

    Any DIY tubeless setup makes a tire more susceptible to flats from sidewall cuts. If you cut or nick the sidewall, the sealant may or may not be able to seal it. If there's a tube in there, you'd have to cut the tire and the tube. With respect to sidewall cuts, my experience is that I rarely cut the tube, and (if running tubeless) the sealant is never able to fix it.

    MC
    Not sure if your tire was blowing off because of too low psi, but I've pinch flatted UST tires when I accidentally ran them that low (mid 20s psi). I had had them at about 35 psi, but forgot to top up after the bike had been unused a week or so. yeah, and I thought I would be AVOIDING pinch flats going tubeless I actually never pinch flatted a tube, but wanted to use less pressure, so converted to tubeless. Can run it lower, but no TOO low

  35. #35
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    Good job! Mavic 217, with Stans 26" 517 strips stretched on, Notos folding

    My limited experience:

    I inherited a pair of well ridden XTR/Mavic 217s (the rare 700c size) that were built up for a Willits 29er back in the late 90s here in Crested Butte. I've been running them on my purple Fisher Rig singlespeed for about 2 seasons now. To setup tubeless, I took off the old velox rim strip, cleaned them up, put a layer of Stans fiber/packing tape, then stretched on one of Stans 26" rim strips (the original narrowish one, designed for 517 rims). I'm running IRC Notos 2.1 folding tires with 1-2 scoops. Stans seems to dry out pretty quick up here in Crested Butte (maybe the dry air) so I check/refill every month or so. The Notos are about worn out, so I'll be putting on some 2.1 WTB Motoraptors real soon. I've got a brand new Delgado Disc, 36h, supercomp spokes, alloy nips, Hugi/Hayes 6 bolt hub FRONT WHEEL that Mike Curiak built me up (so I could set up a disc brake in the front) but after reading all the hassles with getting this rim to work with Stans (and the fact that Salsa strongly discourages it), I think I'm going to sell it. If anyone's interested in a bomber front wheel built by a great wheelbuilder, give me a shout. I just can't go back to tubes after having so much good luck with Stans (my 26" mtn bike is running strong with Stans too)

    Thanks,

  36. #36
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    less weight, less flats

    stans kit with bonti rims -
    Only one sidewall tear (always carry a tube) in my second season of riding tubeless (3-4 rides a wk)
    Maybe two times a season I remove the valve stem and squirt in some more goop, pump up and keep on a gittin' it....

  37. #37
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    Cush,

    Which tires and Bonti rims are you using for your tubeless setup?

    I have spent the better part of a day trying to figure out the optimal no-tubes tire for my Bonti Race Disc. Seems like a hopeless task trying to find a tire that has good reviews, decent weight and is suitable for a Stan's notubes conversion. Sort of a shame my Bonti Jones ACXs aren't recommended. They have good reviews and are very light (570g.)

  38. #38
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    Forget reviews....Ignitors will work fine tubeless

    Hoy,

    if you talking about 29er than, I have the bonty race lite 29er. But have not converted them. But I am confident now that it would work. Good tires I am using tubeless on my 29er AM Classic set are Maxxiss Ignitors - no probs. and also Stans Crow. Both of them just with stans yellow tape. Had to use couple 12g CO2 cartridges with compressor together to seal them... but once sealed work as charm...
    I am confident now I could seal bontys without the problem too. The trick is really to use CO2 rather than compressor...... much bigger air blast.... read my post I am about to post now......
    Last edited by Ride_2_Fast; 09-30-2006 at 04:12 PM.

  39. #39
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    The Trick is CO2 cartridge for sealing - forget compressor !!!

    Hi everyone,

    I have to say I now have been able to run 2 sets of tires on my 29er... that is 100 % success...... and the biggest trick after doing this for such a long time.... use CO2 cartridge. to be precise several and compressor with it. Untill recently I thought the compressor is the best thing to use. The reality is the unless you have something special- meaning a big thing with huge tank that can output big volume (the pressure is not that important), then compressor often is not enough for 29ers. The compressor at home and even the compressor on the gass station will not give such a air blast as cartridge. I have the 12g/16g CO2 inflator; have bought box of CO2 cartridges in Wallmart (cheapest about 60c/ 12g cartridge).
    So to seal AM Classic 29er set with only stan's yellow tape I have used sevelar cartridges(one or two failed to do the initial inflation) and the compressor.

    the blast from CO2 seems to be by far of larger volume than all compressors (including those at gas station). so I seal the tire to the rim and then quickly inflate more with compressor up to 60 psi. that guarantees me the tire will not deflate. then I quickly start shaking and sealing (OK... forgot to mention that before I start inflating I put inside 2 scoops of Stan's latex).

    And this whole process of using CO2 with compressor works....

    To give you better Idea - my compressor is in about $80 price range.

    I was glad to "waste" couple CO2s to finaly win the battle. I am now confident this process would allow me to seal almost any combination... beleive me the Ignitors were pretty loose on AM CL. rims and still sealed...

    Crows worked fine just with compressor...

  40. #40
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    American Classic 350's and Kevlar Exiwolfs.

    I followed the directions. The combo works flawlessly for me.

  41. #41
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    Thanks for the feedback. So, for running tubeless it's between the Maxxis Ignitor (705g. 29x2.1) and the WTB ExiWolf (825g. 29x2.3). I think they are both 60 tpi. I'm running 26" UST Ignitors on my C-dale Prophet. No complaints with those. Of the two, does anyone have a preference for use in mid-Atlantic woodlands? Does anyone know which of the two provides a tighter fit?

  42. #42
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    ignitors on dt 7.1 rims
    no problem whatsoever with initial sealup
    I am 200lbs and ride rocky technical stuff
    working great

  43. #43
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    hmm...CO2 inflator...

    Has anyone tried using a scuba tank for this. You can buy a tire inflator (schrader) for the LP hose on the 1st stage regulator which will inflate a tire very quickly. Its a big investment but for those divers out there with their own tanks and regulators it's an extra $10. Plenty of air in a solid uniterupted stream. The air nozzle attachments work wonders for blowing crap outa your components as well.

    I'm still researching this tubless thing but when I get it all figured out I'll give it a go and let everyone know how it works.

    "Experience varies directly with equipment ruined."

  44. #44
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    You can use a scuba tank, my buddy takes his with him to far away races just in case something happens. Plus it is easy to use at home.
    glty
    paz afuera
    Quote Originally Posted by StickyMantis
    Has anyone tried using a scuba tank for this. You can buy a tire inflator (schrader) for the LP hose on the 1st stage regulator which will inflate a tire very quickly. Its a big investment but for those divers out there with their own tanks and regulators it's an extra $10. Plenty of air in a solid uniterupted stream. The air nozzle attachments work wonders for blowing crap outa your components as well.

    I'm still researching this tubless thing but when I get it all figured out I'll give it a go and let everyone know how it works.

  45. #45
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    Not sure why you'd need a scuba tank. When I converted my tires to Stan's NoTubes I used a floor pump and inflated the tires just like they had tubes. No problem at all. The trick was to use plenty of soapy water and keep the wheel vertical with the valve at 12.

  46. #46
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    Another Successful Tubeless Conversion

    2006 Gary Fisher Paragon.
    Bonrager 29" Race wheels.
    WTB ExiWolf tires (folding).
    Stan's NoTubes 26" conversion kit.
    30 psi front. 35 psi rear.

    No problems encountered. No leaks. No burping. No flats. Used floor pump to inflate tires on first try. Watch the how-to video on notubes.com and follow Stan's instructions closely.

    Thanks everyone who recommended the WTB ExiWolf tires.

    Update 1/15/07. Notubes has been wonderful. I took my bike down to Panama which involved having to remove the tires in order to pack the bike. I was able to reinstall the tires with no problem at all. In fact, I just use a floor pump and pump at normal speed. The tires held up to some very rocky areas and big thorns.
    Last edited by srwings; 01-15-2007 at 10:38 AM.

  47. #47
    No longer 26
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    Mine

    Bontrager Mustang Disc Rims
    1 Wrap Electrical Tape
    1 Wrap Strapping Tape
    Original Stans 26" Strip
    Bontrager Front XR 2.25's Front and Back
    30-32 psi front34-36 back. Still playing with this
    Greg
    You can't depend on honest answers from dependant hands...

  48. #48
    Occidental Tourist
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    mavic a719 rims
    two layers of stans yellow tape
    stans rims strips
    panaracer rampages
    brief shot of co2 to initially inflate
    tho the directions say no no
    This is just need to know information: Am i supposed to enjoy the irony or pity the sincerity?

  49. #49
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    Freshly cleaned mustang disk rims Stans yellow tape, Ignitors home made valve core. Seated fine and held all night long. Test run this morning

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by kinkcrazy
    Freshly cleaned mustang disk rims Stans yellow tape, Ignitors home made valve core. Seated fine and held all night long. Test run this morning
    Will really want to see the results of this. I am running Mustangs with Stan's 26" strips but have a set of Race's (same rim I think) that I would like to try without the strips. Is his tape anything other than electrical tape or is it stiffer? I was thinking of going 1 strip of electrical tape with strapping tape over the top.

    Greg
    You can't depend on honest answers from dependant hands...

  51. #51
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    I have used countless combinations of rims, and tires 26 and 29 with Stans. If you are having a hard time inflating the tires, remove the valve core, then inflate with your air compressor. The tire will inflate right away. I don't know why so many people have problems with this tubless system. It has worked flawlessly for many of my customes for years now. What are people doing wrong?

    Now I'm using Stans rims, with all of the WTB tires, Bontrager tires, and Continental tires. They all work all of the time.

  52. #52
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    No rim strip?

    I have a pair of 29" Cane Creek Zonos Wheels, does anyone know if you can just use the yellow tape or do you have to use the rim strip.

    I have a pair of ZTR's on my 26" with tape only and they inflate with a hand pump. The Stans rims have worked great for me, just wanted to try something different on the 29" SS.

  53. #53
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    Has anyone had luck with running the Delgado Disc rims with stan's? I have one set of wheels that are Stan's rims with Ignitors and they work great but not sure about the Delgados because of the loose fit.

  54. #54
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    sorry

    The Delgado rims are not to be used with tubless systems. I would not even try it.

  55. #55
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    The tape is a bit stiffer than electical tape. The setup worked well on the rear. The front however blew clear off the rim in the first 1/2 mile of trail. I'm pretty sure this was my fault. The falve stem I made from an old slime tube was a bit big and kept the bead from seating on the rim.

  56. #56
    Always Learning
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ride_2_Fast
    Coming from 26’’world with 3 bikes successfully running tubeless for past 4 years and ZERO flats. Nice history. I am using mostly Eclipse (DT Swiss) conversion kits but STAN’s works similarly.

    NOW after crossing to 29’’ world and my first 29er bike (I love it) and 26ers start collecting dust at home, I am frustrated, say at least a bit. No tubeless tires (except Crow now), tires too big for tubeless conversion and difficult to inflate even with strips.

    I’ve spent a lot of time toying with 2 sets of rims and tires:

    Rims) Amer. Classic MTB-350 29’’ and Bontrager Race Lite 29’’
    Tires) Bontrager 2.2 ACX 29’’ and Maxxis Ignitors 2.1

    and of course Stan’s strips and yellow tape.

    Sofar, any combination is failing and after many hours, no success, even with compressor at home and on the gas station.

    HERE IT IS:
    ****************
    CAN WE SHARE HERE WORKING combination of RIMS, TIRES, PREPARATION PROCEDURES (e.g. USING STANS STRIPs or leaving the orig. spoke strip intact).

    I am sure many of us struggled the same way and letting us know what was the secret of the success for you, can help the other.

    Let me and other please know your successful 29’’ tubeless conversion procedure/ setup.
    ************************************************** ************************************************** ***

    Many thanks Pete
    I know this thread is dated, but I did my first conversion last night in the garage as a storm with a tornado was passing through the area. Not the way I had planned on spending my Summer Solstice, but you take what Ma Nature throws at you.

    I had won a door prize of a Standard Stans Kit at the first Iowa XC series race this spring. When we registered, we were given a ticket which we were to take over to the Swag table. My ticket matched up with the Stans Kit. So, it was only a matter of time....

    I watched the videos at the NoTubes.com site a couple of times and then went in the garage to have at it with my American Classic 350 29"er disc wheelset and a pair of Kenda Karma 1.9's. It was between the Crows, the Small Block 8's, the Karma's and the Nanoraptors. I chose the Karma's since Stan had a pair in some of his instruction videos. The American Classics were the only wheelset I had that the Stans Standard kit would fit - so that's the wheelset I converted. I was worried about not having an air compressor, but figured if I followed the directions correctly a floor pump ought to suffice with the old college try.

    Step 1: Removed the rim tape and drilled a 3/8" hole in the rims at the valve hole

    Step 2: Applied the narrow Stans rim tape with the overlap of 2"

    Step 3: Soaped the rim strips and installed them on the rims and worked them into place (which didn't appear as easy for me to do as it was for Stan on the instruction video)

    Step 4: Mounted the front tire, soaped the sides and aired it up using my manual floor pump to 10 psi to see if I could do it without the sealant. Hey, it actually worked!

    Step 5: Added my scoops of sealant (1 and 3/4 scoops)

    Step 6: Soaped the sides of the tire again and inflated with the floor pump to 37 psi (I had to re-soap the area around the valve to get the bead to seat and pumped like a madman on the floor pump until my heart rate was elevated and I was panting )

    Step 7: Did the shake and dance, rotate 4 inches, shake and dance, rotate, shake and dance, rotate routine with both wheels for a good hour+ to make sure I had these suckers sealed on the first attempt. I was still seeing a little bit of foam and or soap bubble movement after several times of the treatment and the 5 minute resting flat routine, so I kept going until I saw nothing. It's an upper body workout to do two wheels at once and do all that shaking and rotating for an hour+.

    (The next 2 steps were my own special requirements)

    Step 8: I hung the bike on the digital scale with wheels mounted and saw that my XL size Dos Niner was sub 25 pounds at 24.85 pounds. Yippie! I may have to go weight weenie on my grips and pedals to trim a bit more.

    Step 9: Drank 2 glasses of wine, took a shower and went to bed (slept like a lump from midnight to 8:30 am after the shaking and the wine)

    Next Morning Check: I just went into the garage and the front tire didn't lose any air as the psi still reads the same. The rear tire lost a few pounds, but is still in the 30's - so I think that means it did seal as the instructions say "if the psi went way down" to do it all over. I'm not counting a few psi's as "way down" yet. Correct?

    Maiden voyage to be in a couple of hours after breakfast. I'm really hoping this takes care of my thorn woes. I will update this post with pictures and a report as my experience unfolds. I have another set of American Classics on my Karate Monkey (rim brake only version) which could be next if this one works out for me.

    BB

  57. #57
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    sounds about right...

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown
    The rear tire lost a few pounds, but is still in the 30's - so I think that means it did seal as the instructions say "if the psi went way down" to do it all over. I'm not counting a few psi's as "way down" yet. Correct?

    BB
    It is always the rear tire....If it were the front it would be slightly less work to fix (no chain up there). Probably wouldn't worry about a few psi though, but you might soap the beads and look for tiny bubbles...then shake and dance on that spot to end the leak for good.

    As a rule you should check pressure every time pre-ride, I usually don't with tubes, but a diligent rider should be checking it every time anyway.

    I think you will like the set up...just be aware of what a "burp" is and how they happen. If you at least know that it is a possibility and how to make it happen, it will surprise you less if and when it does happen.

    I learned the hard way (I figured out what a burp was moments before I thought, "WTF?" and crashed with a tire that had about 10 PSI left in it post-burp). Sounds dumb, but I would do like on the video and drop the pressure a bit and try to roll the tire off the rim by hand until it burps. Once you are familiar with the sound and concept go for some careful rides to determine what your operating pressure needs to be to optimize performance and minimize burps.
    My ego is bigger and better looking than yours.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by unit
    It is always the rear tire....If it were the front it would be slightly less work to fix (no chain up there). Probably wouldn't worry about a few psi though, but you might soap the beads and look for tiny bubbles...then shake and dance on that spot to end the leak for good.

    As a rule you should check pressure every time pre-ride, I usually don't with tubes, but a diligent rider should be checking it every time anyway.

    I think you will like the set up...just be aware of what a "burp" is and how they happen. If you at least know that it is a possibility and how to make it happen, it will surprise you less if and when it does happen.

    I learned the hard way (I figured out what a burp was moments before I thought, "WTF?" and crashed with a tire that had about 10 PSI left in it post-burp). Sounds dumb, but I would do like on the video and drop the pressure a bit and try to roll the tire off the rim by hand until it burps. Once you are familiar with the sound and concept go for some careful rides to determine what your operating pressure needs to be to optimize performance and minimize burps.
    Thanks, Unit. I did the shake and dance routine on the rear tire for a few more rounds this morning after my above post. That did the trick and it is not leaking any more. I think Stan was a little too coy with his comment in the instruction video that it shouldn't take more than 30 - 40 minutes for the sealing procedure with any tire. I venture to guess that it took quite a few cycles of shaking, rotating and laying the wheel flat to seal up the Karma's on the American Classics. So, in my experience with the set up I was after I would allow a full 1 - 2 hours to get it "perfect". My forearms and elbows are tired of shaking, but I'm done now and both tires are sealed and good to go.

    I did a 1 1/2 hour ride today and everything went well. No loss of air and the weight/grip are very ideal indeed. I leaned the bike over and railed some turns, caught some air, went over more logs than normal in an effort to test it and build my confidence. I was riding the same thorn infested trails that got my tube yesterday, but it had rained overnight so things were softer which may have kept all thorns harmless. I liked the video on the NoTubes.com site where they ride the bike over 19 nails, poke it with an ice pick, nails, etc... and it all seals up. I won't be running those tests on my set, but it certainly is good marketing to see all of that.

    The only thing the instruction videos and the instructions that came with my Kit seem to gloss over or not cover is the reality of adding more sealant down the road (be it 1 month or longer). Although all seems hunky dory at the moment, what should I be looking for in the future as an indicator to add sealant? Do I anticipate the sealant drying up and in one month's time add more no matter what, or do I wait until things dry out enough to make the tire go flat? My inclination would lean towards being proactive and adding sealant before I need it to keep things functioning well.

    BB

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown
    what should I be looking for in the future as an indicator to add sealant? Do I anticipate the sealant drying up and in one month's time add more no matter what, or do I wait until things dry out enough to make the tire go flat?
    BB
    Your choice. Basically, try to make a mental note of the sound of the front tire when you shake it. Check it after about a month and see what it sounds like. Chances are it will sound like there is about 1/3 as much stans remaining (compared to the amount in there now). This does NOT mean that it will work for another week or two. Punctures will not seal as effectively, and you will have a tire that creeps down to dangerous pressures mid ride. You won't die probably, but it is not as fun as being proactive.

    ( I say check the front, cuz the back will be in a similar state, more than likely, but the front is easier to check)

    Do yourself a favor and either buy the injector and a valve core remover, or rig up your own from an old squeeze bottle, a length of 1/4 inch tubing, and an adjustable wrench (to remove the core). That way you don't have to unseat the beads at all.

    Edit--One last thing, you tend to use more sealant in the first month as the tire seals up the first time. Subsequent months seem to require less sealant (none or little is lost sealing the beads...since they are now sealed). When you dismount the tires (perhaps in a few months) you will understand just how much of the sealant is consumed sealing the beads...
    My ego is bigger and better looking than yours.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by unit
    Your choice. Basically, try to make a mental note of the sound of the front tire when you shake it. Check it after about a month and see what it sounds like. Chances are it will sound like there is about 1/3 as much stans remaining (compared to the amount in there now). This does NOT mean that it will work for another week or two. Punctures will not seal as effectively, and you will have a tire that creeps down to dangerous pressures mid ride. You won't die probably, but it is not as fun as being proactive.

    ( I say check the front, cuz the back will be in a similar state, more than likely, but the front is easier to check)

    Do yourself a favor and either buy the injector and a valve core remover, or rig up your own from an old squeeze bottle, a length of 1/4 inch tubing, and an adjustable wrench (to remove the core). That way you don't have to unseat the beads at all.

    Edit--One last thing, you tend to use more sealant in the first month as the tire seals up the first time. Subsequent months seem to require less sealant (none or little is lost sealing the beads...since they are now sealed). When you dismount the tires (perhaps in a few months) you will understand just how much of the sealant is consumed sealing the beads...
    Thanks, Unit. Very informative. I may have to spring for the Stans tools (injector, core remover, etc.). Looks like the $5.95 for the injector and $6.50 for the core remover would be worth the money and eliminate the hassle of popping the bead.

    With that in mind, one more set of questions. What about the build up of sealant when it dries? I've read things on this site about the sealant turning into a dry ball that rolls around in your tire. Have you experienced this phenomenon? If so, I assume you just dismount one side of the tire and remove the debris, clean things up and start over with fresh sealant.

    BB

  61. #61
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    well sort of...

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown
    TWhat about the build up of sealant when it dries? I've read things on this site about the sealant turning into a dry ball that rolls around in your tire. Have you experienced this phenomenon? If so, I assume you just dismount one side of the tire and remove the debris, clean things up and start over with fresh sealant.

    BB
    well, it (Stans solution) dries up and creates a film on the inside of the tire...this is bound to add weight over time (for the weight weenies out there), but I have never had any balls form inside the tire. I have heard that CO2 inflators can cause it, but personally have never experienced it (and have used CO2 many times on Stans filled tires...works just dandy).

    I tend to replace tires about every 6 months (at least...sometimes more often). I tend to wear them out, slice the sidewalls, or break them down (sidewalls start to show excessive cracking). I figure after 6 months of my BS the tires need to rest. Beyond that...perhaps the rubber balls start to form...I dunno.

    The film that builds up in this time is fairly thick (about a mm) it can be removed, but will peel off in sheets only a few inches long (would take forever to get it out completely).

    I am not sure what the lifespan of tires are for most people, but the new offerings tend to keep me changing to newer better products anyway.
    My ego is bigger and better looking than yours.

  62. #62
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    I too recently converted to Stan's tubeless and I couldn't be happier!!! I have Industry Nines built up to Stan's Flow rims (I9 built my front and swapped out the rear rim myself. SUPER EASY wheel build!!!). I used the extra wide Stan's yellow tape only (had to buy separately as I9 sent me the narrow XC tape) and lot's of soapy water!! Inflated with a floor pump no prob!! It took me over an hour to seal both tires, Nevegal up front and Michelin XC AT in the rear, but well worth the time and effort!! I have been running them now for about 1 1/2 months with no problems and no worries!! I am thinking I want to swap out my tires for Geax Saguaros front and rear, as I have heard good things about these tires, for the up coming Cascade Cream Puff 100 (any advice, yes/no???). Regardless I have been totally happy with my conversion to tubeless!!!!
    "On yere Bike!!!!",

    Brandon Lockwood, KCH Inc.
    Track Daddy Blog

  63. #63
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    Tubless conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ride_2_Fast
    Coming from 26’’world with 3 bikes successfully running tubeless for past 4 years and ZERO flats. Nice history. I am using mostly Eclipse (DT Swiss) conversion kits but STAN’s works similarly.

    NOW after crossing to 29’’ world and my first 29er bike (I love it) and 26ers start collecting dust at home, I am frustrated, say at least a bit. No tubeless tires (except Crow now), tires too big for tubeless conversion and difficult to inflate even with strips.

    I’ve spent a lot of time toying with 2 sets of rims and tires:

    Rims) Amer. Classic MTB-350 29’’ and Bontrager Race Lite 29’’
    Tires) Bontrager 2.2 ACX 29’’ and Maxxis Ignitors 2.1

    and of course Stan’s strips and yellow tape.

    Sofar, any combination is failing and after many hours, no success, even with compressor at home and on the gas station.

    HERE IT IS:
    ****************
    CAN WE SHARE HERE WORKING combination of RIMS, TIRES, PREPARATION PROCEDURES (e.g. USING STANS STRIPs or leaving the orig. spoke strip intact).

    I am sure many of us struggled the same way and letting us know what was the secret of the success for you, can help the other.

    Let me and other please know your successful 29’’ tubeless conversion procedure/ setup.
    ************************************************** ************************************************** ***

    Many thanks Pete
    Pete,
    I run Stans ZTR 355 29er's and use the spoke tape only. I have also sucessfully inflated easily a Kenda Karm 29er and a Crow tyre with a floor pump. Built with other light bits these wheels are what mak my 29er sing! With other rims spoke tape and the no-tubes rim strip is necessary.

    Now, I suggest that you take a sponge with you lined with a little dishwashing liquid, go to the service station, use lolts of suds around the bead for the install, pump up your tyres, give them a twirl and make sure all holes are sealed and go for a ride to bed them in. This always works for me. Once the tyres are sealed subsequent pumping can be done by hand, it's only the first time with a new tyre that a trip to the servo may be necessary.
    b.

  64. #64
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    Yo, BruceBrown

    Quote Originally Posted by unit
    I have heard that CO2 inflators can cause it, but personally have never experienced it (and have used CO2 many times on Stans filled tires...works just dandy).
    I Stan corrected (pun intended). I was dismounting my tires the other day (they had been mounted up for only 2 weeks) when I discovered the rubber ball inside.

    I topped off the rear tire mid ride once with CO2. Lo-and-behold the claims are true (go figure). I have done it many times prior with no ill results, but this time the latex cave formation formed. Did not create anything I noticed on the bike...just consumed the Stans faster than usual.

    FWIW, I was only dismounting the tires to have the wheels re-tensioned....otherwise I would have discovered it the hard way (trailside with a flat and no sealant).
    My ego is bigger and better looking than yours.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by unit
    I Stan corrected (pun intended). I was dismounting my tires the other day (they had been mounted up for only 2 weeks) when I discovered the rubber ball inside.

    I topped off the rear tire mid ride once with CO2. Lo-and-behold the claims are true (go figure). I have done it many times prior with no ill results, but this time the latex cave formation formed. Did not create anything I noticed on the bike...just consumed the Stans faster than usual.

    FWIW, I was only dismounting the tires to have the wheels re-tensioned....otherwise I would have discovered it the hard way (trailside with a flat and no sealant).
    I'll keep that in mind if I ever use C02.

    So, I assume you just pull the "ball" out, reload the tire with fresh sealant and air up, right?

    BB

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown
    Maiden voyage to be in a couple of hours after breakfast. I'm really hoping this takes care of my thorn woes. I will update this post with pictures and a report as my experience unfolds. I have another set of American Classics on my Karate Monkey (rim brake only version) which could be next if this one works out for me.

    BB
    Update on my tubeless conversion.

    I was having troubles keeping the air in the rear tire as it would drop psi overnight. Rather than let the air out, soap up the bead again and try it over - I went for the golden final step. I let the air out, used a small paint brush with fine bristles and painted both bead sides with some of the sealant. Aired it back up and did the shake and dance routine to seal the tire. It worked. The rear has sealed and is golden (so far, knock on wood and all of that jazz....).

    I've got my initial rides in with the tubeless conversion set. I'm probably not alone in this, but there are those first few riding moments where your trust is waning and you keep your speed down on descents and corners in case a tire rolls off the rim. Finally, on yesterday's training ride where all the thorns are, I did lap one which took me 40 minutes and had a mix of tentative riding speed and letting it all out speed. On lap 2, I put my trust and confidence in the converted tires and went at it in race simulation. Caught air. Hit the roots and ruts with full gusto. Leaned into the corners at speed. Mashed up some climbs. In short, I let it all out. Lap 2 time was 32 minutes which helped build my confidence in my tubeless conversion. No loss of air pressure as I did a pre-ride check and a post-ride check.

    Here are a couple of shots of the American Classics with Kenda Karma 1.9's mounted up using the Stan's Standard 26" kit. Plenty of dried soap/water on the garage floor by the bucket. I may be converting another wheelset very soon based on my experience with these.

    BB

    Edit:

    Next up for my conversion experiment is to tackle the Salsa Delgado Disc rims. Here's a message from the NoTubes.com message boards and one I have heard before:

    Salsa does not recommend their rims be converted to tubeless and have asked that we post the same information. The Delgado Disc does seem to have a very deep drop channel which can make inflation more difficult but it does work just fine tubeless from the feedback we have received from customers. We use the Freeride rim strip in both the 26" and 29" rims which requires drilling the presta hole large enough for the schrader valve. If you have very loose fitting tires, you may want to add a layer or two of 17mm Velox in the center of the rim.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by BruceBrown; 06-27-2007 at 03:43 PM.

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    I wonder if the valve stem is on the top or bottom when you inflate them? I would think that shooting co2 directly into the liquid may cause this. Try valve stem at the top, liquid at the bottom.

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    Always

    Quote Originally Posted by 202cycle
    I wonder if the valve stem is on the top or bottom when you inflate them? I would think that shooting co2 directly into the liquid may cause this. Try valve stem at the top, liquid at the bottom.
    When using tire sealant you should always keep the valve as far away from the sealant as possible when opening it (either to let air out or put air in). If for no other reason, you don't want sealant cra-ping up your valve (it will happen over time anyway though).

    I had the valve near TDC when I used CO2 and it happened. I will point out that I have done it about 20 other times with no ill results though.

    I recently wrote some thoughts on various sealants to use in tubeless conversions. It is probably not worth any one's time, but if you want to hear what I have learned about various tubeless sealants over the years...here is some free info. Feel free to disagree with it...it is quite subjective and opinionated.
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  69. #69
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    First Stans'd success

    I did one of my wheels last night - couldn't have been easier:

    Bontrager Race Disk Wheelset
    Tire is a WTB Motoraptor wire bead.

    The wheelset already had a velox strip, so I just added the Stan's Standard 26" rim strip as recommended on their site. Fit perfectly. Inflated right away without the goop, but the tire had a few holes on the tread surface.

    Added goop, pumped it up with my floor pump, no problem. Had Stan's fluid shooting through the holes for a few seconds in various spots, did the shake dance routine and things settled down pretty quickly.

    After a while, I put my pump back on to check pressure and add a bit more. As I got up around 35 psi, the Stan's Juice started shooting out of the tire again, but quickly resealed.

    Checked again this AM, all seems good. Look forward to trying again with the new Specy Fast Trak 2Bliss tires later this week. Stay tuned. Anybody want some lightly used non-2Bliss Fast Traks?

    FCTi

  70. #70
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    Successful tubeless conversion #2:

    American Classic non-disc 29" wheelset
    Stans Standard/UST Kit
    Bontrager XR 2.25 (2 front tires to be used front and rear)

    I followed the same routine as converting the AC disc rims. Drilled the inner valve stem hole to 3/8", applied the Stans strapping tape, dipped the rim strip in soap and water and installed. I tried mounting the XR on one of the wheels with soap and water only, but could not get it to air up with my floor pump.

    So I loaded the wheels, tires, a bottle of sealant, presta valve adaptor and scooper and headed off to the gas station. Air is "free" at this particular station, so I wasn't under the timer of "coins for air" like some gas stations.

    Aired up both tires with 2 scoops of sealant figuring that the XR's are quite big volume tires and anticipating a tough time sealing the sidewalls. Drove back home and did the shake, rattle and place on the bucket routine until both tires were sealed. They were a little more pesky than the Kenda Karma's, but after a few rounds of shaking and laying on their side on the buckets - no more bubbles were forming so I knew I had them sealed.

    I took a neighborhood ride last night with pressure around 30 - 32 psi. Wow! The XR's ride like a completely different tire tubeless than they do with the tubes (at least on pavement). For lack of a better explanation - they seem to roll much easier without tubes than with tubes. The Karma tires don't quite feel so different.

    Both XR's held their pressure over night, so I will take them off road today to pre-ride Saturday's race course. Pressure feels way too high at 30 - 32, so I will adjust down to get them softer. I think these higher volume tires will be an excellent race tire for the rigid Karate Monkey, so I'm planning on racing the below set up on the KM tomorrow. I always have had trouble with XR's picking up thorns when running them tubed, so it will be nice to get back to these tires and let Stans take care of the thorns.

    Photos:
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by BruceBrown; 07-13-2007 at 02:46 PM.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown
    Successful tubeless conversion #2:

    American Classic non-disc 29" wheelset
    Stans Standard/UST Kit
    Bontrager XR 2.25 (2 front tires to be used front and rear)

    I followed the same routine as converting the AC disc rims. Drilled the inner valve stem hole to 3/8", applied the Stans strapping tape, dipped the rim strip in soap and water and installed. I tried mounting the XR on one of the wheels with soap and water only, but could not get it to air up with my floor pump.

    So I loaded the wheels, tires, a bottle of sealant, presta valve adaptor and scooper and headed off to the gas station. Air is "free" at this particular station, so I wasn't under the timer of "coins for air" like some gas stations.

    Aired up both tires with 2 scoops of sealant figuring that the XR's are quite big volume tires and anticipating a tough time sealing the sidewalls. Drove back home and did the shake, rattle and place on the bucket routine until both tires were sealed. They were a little more pesky than the Kenda Karma's, but after a few rounds of shaking and laying on their side on the buckets - no more bubbles were forming so I knew I had them sealed.

    I took a neighborhood ride last night with pressure around 30 - 32 psi. Wow! The XR's ride like a completely different tire tubeless than they do with the (at least on pavement). For lack of a better explanation - they seem to roll much easier without tubes than with tubes. The Karma tires don't quite feel so different.

    Both XR's held their pressure over night, so I will take them off road today to pre-ride Saturday's race course. Pressure feels way too high at 30 - 32, so I will adjust down to get them softer. I think these higher volume tires will be an excellent race tire for the rigid Karate Monkey, so I'm planning on racing the below set up on the KM tomorrow. I always have had trouble with XR's picking up thorns when running them tubed, so it will be nice to get back to these tires and let Stans take care of the thorns.

    Photos:
    I'll be interested to hea how the whole thing works out... I just went to a dual bonti rear tire set up myself..seems like a good choice... but the thought of converting Bonti tires kinda scares me
    Sidewalls seem way too thin

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddre
    I'll be interested to hea how the whole thing works out... I just went to a dual bonti rear tire set up myself..seems like a good choice... but the thought of converting Bonti tires kinda scares me
    Sidewalls seem way too thin
    Hey Toddre,

    I have been running a similar set up as BB. Bonty front XR 2.25s front and rear in the front direction. Stan's on Bontrager Mustang Disc OSB rims. 1 layer elect tape, 1 layer strapping tape, 26" strips (old style w/attached valves), slime mixed with my stans goop.

    Have been using them since I got my hardtail toward the end of last summer. Have not had a burp, flat, problem airing up with floor pump, or problem adding additional goop. Even made it through my ramming of a log when I did not keep the front end up long enough to cross it. I got to cross the log upside down

    Wisconsin trails so ymmv depending on locations.

    G
    You can't depend on honest answers from dependant hands...

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Live
    Hey Toddre,

    I have been running a similar set up as BB. Bonty front XR 2.25s front and rear in the front direction. Stan's on Bontrager Mustang Disc OSB rims. 1 layer elect tape, 1 layer strapping tape, 26" strips (old style w/attached valves), slime mixed with my stans goop.

    Have been using them since I got my hardtail toward the end of last summer. Have not had a burp, flat, problem airing up with floor pump, or problem adding additional goop. Even made it through my ramming of a log when I did not keep the front end up long enough to cross it. I got to cross the log upside down

    Wisconsin trails so ymmv depending on locations.

    G
    Yeah.. too many small sharp rocks here in CT to convert them I think.. jsut look at the sidewalls and they tear here lol

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddre
    Yeah.. too many small sharp rocks here in CT to convert them I think.. jsut look at the sidewalls and they tear here lol
    Goop in a tube might then be a good option. There was a thread on that recently. Seems like a good option that I might use on my hardtail (which now has tubes....gasp... )

    G
    You can't depend on honest answers from dependant hands...

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Live
    Goop in a tube might then be a good option. There was a thread on that recently. Seems like a good option that I might use on my hardtail (which now has tubes....gasp... )

    G
    My reasons for going tubeless is strictly a performance/weight thing...I do pretty well when it comes to avoiding flats...usually I have a span of about three in a row per year then that is it..who figures?

  76. #76
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    I have run several tires with success.............

    I've run all my tires tubeless on Stans 355 29er, some go up with a pump some I need a compressor. Bought an air tank at sears a few years back to air up my 26er tubeless setup. Have to take it to the gas station every 2-3 weeks to fill it but I get around 20 to 30 tires on the rim with a full tank. I will never air up a tire past 30psi to get it on the rim and usually run between 20 and 30 psi depending on which tire I am running, 170lbs with gear.

    Kenda Small Block 8=successful, but a pain to seal the pin holes in the sidewall
    Kenda Nevegals=successful, sealed up with no air loss
    Kenda Karma 2.2=successful, but leaked air for the first 2 rides
    Panaracer Rampage=successful sealed with no air loss
    Specialized Fast Traks=successful no leaks
    Maxxis CrossMark=successful but leaked the first ride out second ride no leak
    Maxxis Ignitor=successful no air loss
    WTB WeirWolf=successful no air loss

    I noticed if I lightly buff a new tire on the inside with a scotch bright pad the sidewalls seal up much easier, most new tires have a slick film on the inside which prevents the sealant from sticking to the sidewalls to seal.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddre
    I'll be interested to hea how the whole thing works out... I just went to a dual bonti rear tire set up myself..seems like a good choice... but the thought of converting Bonti tires kinda scares me
    Sidewalls seem way too thin
    I just finished the first off road ride and they were great. The large volume of the XR and the supple traction of tubeless really had these tires holding the trail well. Perfect for the rigid KM. Keep in mind, I'm riding midwest singletrack where sharp rocks are - for the most part - really of no concern. It's the thorns that are the concern. Plenty of thorns and now we seem to have entered the dry season where tubes are prone to flats. If I was in sharp rock territory, I would run something else tubeless.

    I was also concerned converting a Bonty, but Matt has been rocking an XR on the front tubeless (and an earlier post in this thread explains how he was hesitant as well) - so that was green light territory for me.

    I'll post up my conversion of the Delgado Discs and Nanoraptors using the Freeride strips once I take on that project....

    BB

  78. #78
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    Lots of success w/ lots of different rim/tire combos

    I have used the sliced tube method (Teamdicky had a link to it on page one I believe) and also many variations of the Stan's method successfully.

    I would give one tip to the homemade method in trimming the excess. Put the wheel/tire in a truing stand or on the bike and take a small pair of sharp scissors to start the trimming. Open the blade maybe a half inch and just pull the overhanging tube towards you while you leave the scissors resting on the edge of the rim. As the wheel spins it will easily trim it very smoothly and because you were stretching it, it bounces back to be very cleanly tucked in when you're done. I actually did use the Delgado Discs for one of my early conversions, and they were fine, but I was a little nervous from all the posts here, and sold the wheelset.

    As for Stan's, I've converted most everyone I ride with (all 29ers so far) and we've done AC, Bontys, WTB, Salsas and of course ZTR's and Arches from Stan's. We've used tires (all folding) from Stan's, WTB, Maxxis, Kenda. Bottom line, they have all worked, and no ones had one blow off although, interestingly enough the only burb was w/ the Stan's rim and a Kenda Karma tire. (It was an extreme situation where the tire dropped between two sharp rocks and it probably should have cut the sidewall and sent me home walking, but it burped, and after airing it up, was fine)
    As much success as we've had, I still feel the best on a Stan's rim, call it peace of mind. It just seems to be a system that is easier to control variables.

    FYI EVERYONE. I was asking some questions of Stan's tech dept. about the new replacement for the velox tape on some of their rim conversions. (Grey foam insulation tape) Then, none other than Stan himself came to the phone. (I had met him before at Interbike and so I reintroduced myself) He gave me an interesting tidbit that I'm not sure is public knowledge. KENDA TIRE COMPANY IS THE COMPANY THAT MAKES THE CROW FOR STAN'S. Despite my success w/ the other tire brands, I'm probably going to be running the Stan's or Kenda tires to give myself just a little less anxiety. He eluded that the bead for the Kenda tires was the closest to theirs and that they make the Crow for them. Now I'm no tire designer/manufacturer, but I'm guessing they don't change the bead diameter or material between the Stan's branded tires and their own. This topic came up when I was asking him about the Crow and if they had one in the works w/ more tread. I told him I really liked the Karma and that's when he let me in on this info. Maybe everyone else knows this, but to me it was worth sharing in case some didn't know.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by tibiker325
    FYI EVERYONE. I was asking some questions of Stan's tech dept. about the new replacement for the velox tape on some of their rim conversions. (Grey foam insulation tape) Then, none other than Stan himself came to the phone. (I had met him before at Interbike and so I reintroduced myself) He gave me an interesting tidbit that I'm not sure is public knowledge. KENDA TIRE COMPANY IS THE COMPANY THAT MAKES THE CROW FOR STAN'S. Despite my success w/ the other tire brands, I'm probably going to be running the Stan's or Kenda tires to give myself just a little less anxiety. He eluded that the bead for the Kenda tires was the closest to theirs and that they make the Crow for them. Now I'm no tire designer/manufacturer, but I'm guessing they don't change the bead diameter or material between the Stan's branded tires and their own. This topic came up when I was asking him about the Crow and if they had one in the works w/ more tread. I told him I really liked the Karma and that's when he let me in on this info. Maybe everyone else knows this, but to me it was worth sharing in case some didn't know.
    Yup. The Crow is simply the Karma 1.9 without knobs. Getting the Karma as well as the Crow off and on certain rims is a real pain it is so tight.

    BB

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ride_2_Fast

    HERE IT IS:
    ****************
    CAN WE SHARE HERE WORKING combination of RIMS, TIRES, PREPARATION PROCEDURES (e.g. USING STANS STRIPs or leaving the orig. spoke strip intact).

    I am sure many of us struggled the same way and letting us know what was the secret of the success for you, can help the other.

    Let me and other please know your successful 29’’ tubeless conversion procedure/ setup.
    ************************************************** ************************************************** ***
    This conversion needs more explanation because I hope it helps those considering converting wider rims such as the Delgado Disc, WTB LaserDisc, Velocity Blunts and all rims in the 27 - 29mm width range that have deep center channels. It's not for the timid or impatient. There are no instructions in the NoTubes kit to help one tackle a DIY problem solving conversion.

    Before I continue discussion of my successful conversion of such taboo products, a warning:

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/420694723/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/188/420694723_b061d0c1db_o.jpg" width="717" height="565" alt="closed-thread-prohibition" /></a>

    For those of you that made it past the warning and feel you need to read on, I must add an additional caution before you read any more...

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/510750264/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/232/510750264_aab9592355_o.jpg" width="418" height="323" alt="Met At Work" /></a>

    Okay, now that we have the warning and the caution out of the way - let's have at it and get to work.

    The Disclaimer: Salsa does not recommend their Delgado Disc rim be converted to tubeless. NoTubes.com honors that recommendation and clearly states on their rim compatibility chart that the Delgado Disc is not to be converted to tubeless.

    Strike 1 and Strike 2.

    In addition, the NoTubes.com site says that WTB kevlar beaded tires are not to be converted to tubeless due to their kevlar beads being weaker than other brands.

    Strike 3.

    In spite of those three strikes, I've got this lovely set of wheels that Mikesee built up for me way back when the Delgado Disc rims first came out. I had asked that racer boy SuperComps be used in lacing my old DT/Hügi 240 Disc rims from my 26" days (bought 'em in 2002) to the rims. To add to the challenge, this conversion involves the WTB Nanoraptor kevlar beaded tires. How taboo can I get for this challenge?

    Here are the wheel specimens for today's conversion:

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/1189342699/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1021/1189342699_9ee106dbe7_o.jpg" width="444" height="655" alt="Delgado Disc Specimens" /></a>

    I thought and thought about doing this conversion for several weeks (months actually). I combed the NoTubes.com message boards in the support section and found a few tidbits and "unofficial support" of successful conversions by a NoTubes employee. I used the Advanced Search feature here at MTBR.com to come up with a battle plan. And I placed an order for the NoTubes Freeride rimstrips to finally do it.

    The difficulty with a rim such as the Salsa is the deep center channel which serves its purpose for mounting tires and popping them up into the bead hook when airing up with a tube, but is of little help or use for a tubeless set up. I decided to use some layers of strapping tape to fill that channel and went at it. I installed the freeride rimstrip over the tape and noticed that there was still too much dip in the middle of the rim and the freeride strip was not meeting the sides of the rim under the bead like I thought it should.

    In spite of that and in my first attempt, after drilling the requisite size holes for the Schrader valve stem, I mounted the Nanoraptors. I then added sealant, painted the beads of the Nanos with sealant, and aired them up at the gas station using the air hose. I didn't have an air gauge with me and even though the tires felt full enough to make the 5 minute car ride home back to the house - I gave an extra shot of air in the front tire for "good measure's sake". Loaded the tires in the back of my Element and headed home. About 4 blocks from home there was this massive explosion in the rear of the car. Sealant was everywhere. All over the windows, the doors, the seats, the ceiling, the floor, etc... . Drats! I must have filled it way up over the maximum 40 psi that Stan recommends. My bad. The tire was ruined as the bead blew out in the explosion. Fiddlesticks. It was a blessing in disguise come to find out.

    I got home and went about shaking the rear tire and it sealed up quicker than the other tires I've converted. At this point, I had serious thoughts about pulling the plug on the project and just running tubes. That explosion scared me and got me to thinking....

    Maybe everyone was right. The Deldgado Discs and the WTB Nanoraptors with kevlar beads was asking for way too much trouble.

    So I slept on it.

    I got up the next morning and headed to the LBS where they had 3 kevlar beaded Nanos in stock. I juggled around the three they had and picked the one I thought felt the lightest. If anything, I could run my Nanoraptors with tubes and a shot of Slime or Stans Sealant for thorn protection if the conversion did not work. I got home and weighed the new Nano. Holy Cow! It came in at 556 grams. The one I had just destroyed was 670 grams. That was a nice surprise. I removed the rear Nano that had sealed the night before as I just didn't trust it. I wanted to make sure I did the job correctly for a successful conversion of these taboo components. I had to do it right, so I started over on the rear wheel even though it had successful sealed.

    I stopped by the hardware store and purchased some rolls of Frost King weatherstripping in various sizes to fill the deep center channel of the Delgado Discs. This is a common method for dealing with the WTB Laserdisc rim as well. I had read about it a few times on the message boards at NoTubes.com.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/1190537068/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1419/1190537068_da597dd124_o.jpg" width="212" height="216" alt="Weatherstrips" /></a>

    Each rim needs a wrap of this stuff to fill the channel, followed by a wrap of electrical tape to keep it all in place. Sure, you take a few grams hit, but better than multiple layers of Velox.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/1190212504/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1198/1190212504_6fe1c932d4_o.jpg" width="644" height="400" alt="Frosted Grams" /></a>

    Hide the weatherstripping with E-Tape to fill the channel:

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/1190212760/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1048/1190212760_9f509e69c0_o.jpg" width="622" height="467" alt="Frost King and Electrical Tape" /></a>

    Once the center channel is filled, I put the freeride rimstrip back on and you can see the rimstrip fills out to the sides of the rim which helps give the tire a nice snug fit. I didn't take a picture before this step from the previous day when the center was not filled correctly, but there was a gap between the rimstrip and the inner sides of the rim because the rimstrip was sinking into the inner cavity of the rim. Now the gap was gone and things looked bright.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/1190212254/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1066/1190212254_6815fb88ae_o.jpg" width="608" height="456" alt="Freeride Rimtrip" /></a>

    To test it out, I mounted up a Kenda Small Block 8 (all new Kenda tires are known to have fairly tight fitting beads for 29"ers). Sure enough the Small Block 8 fit very snug on the rimstrip. I aired it up with the floor pump to 30 psi without using any soap or sealant. The tire held air for a good hour while I mounted the new Nano on a Mavic Open Pro to let the tire get out of its "I've been folded on the shelf for months" state. The success with the Small Block 8 was encouraging because I knew I had a tight fit now and I could always use the Small Block 8's if the Nanos did not work. I took the SB 8 off of the wheel and mounted up the Nano. Not as tight to air up with the floor pump without soap, but with soap it aired right up and held air for 30 - 45 minutes. That was very encouraging.

    I put the scoops of sealant in the Nanos and painted the beads of the Nanos with sealant to aid in a nice quick sealing of the bead. Aired both up with the floor pump without any problems and began the shaking and sealing process. Again, within 20 minutes these babies were sealed. The Nanos are way better than the Karmas and the XR's for sealing. Those both took me over an hour to get sealed.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/1190213048/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1248/1190213048_b4417dcbbf_o.jpg" width="672" height="427" alt="Nanoraptors Sealing" /></a>

    I obviously only have a few rides on this conversion, but things seem to be pretty solid at this point. If I do get a blowoff or something goes wrong, I will update this post ASAP.

    Why the WTB Nanoraptor? Racing tires I currently use from smaller volume to larger volume include:

    Bontrager XR 1.8's
    Stans Crow
    Kenda Karma 1.9
    Kenda Small Block 8
    WTB Nanoraptor
    Bontrager XR 2.25's

    The Nanoraptors I now have weigh 606 grams front, 556 grams rear. On the Salsa DD's, the casing width measures 54-55mm and these tires provide the most volume for their weight of the tires I have tried. The smaller tires I use are all more like 28"+. The Nanoraptor is a true 29"er due to its volume. I like how it rides and handles for the volume, weight and traction on the trails I ride. Having it as a tubeless race option seems worth the effort of the conversion. Future options could lead me to the new Python for similar reasons.

    In the meantime, with the proper goodies, patience and DIY troubleshooting - these Salsa Delgado Disc rims do convert. Those with Blunts and WTB LaserDiscs should not dispair. The same method I used should work on those wide rims as well.

    BB
    Last edited by BruceBrown; 08-21-2007 at 04:36 AM.

  81. #81
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    I'm running a tubeless conversion a few months now. The tires I've used are Karma's and The Crow from Stans.
    The system I use is the Joe's No-flats system.
    This is really awesome. With the conventional systems you are only sealing the spoke holes in the rim, and the latex seales also the area between the rim and the tire (aluminium to rubber...).
    With the Joe's system you're using a wider rimstrip that lays over the edge of the rim. The tire lays in the rim strip and is because of this reason not touching aluminium anywhere. So in fact you have some kind of an airtight rubber surrounded area inside the tire instead of a lot of edges where you can get a leak.
    The second great point is, that the latex really glues the rimstrip and the tire together. This is so strong, that I had to take the tire of with a screwdriver to poke it lose from the strip, so offcourse there is no change of riding the tire of the rim because it is so tight on there.
    I've tried to blow the tire off while riding because I wanted to be sure that it is a very strong solution, I don't want to ride flat in a race offcourse.
    So i've been riding the crows in front and rear with 1.3-1.4 bar pressure, in the back for me much to low, in sharp corners I felt the tire wanted to wobble off the rim with a very strange feeling of the bike in the corners. On the roots I felt the rim punching on the tire but no leaks at all.
    When I got home I let the air out of the tire because I wanted to check some things. And found some ground between the rimstrip and the rim itself . So I totally trust this system!!
    If You want Plush, Buy a Couch...
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  82. #82
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    Bontrager mustang disc stock from Gary Fisher Rig drilled to take presta valve, original rim tape, split 26 tube, brand new maxxis ignitor 2.1, a mix of water, molding latex, slime and windshield fluid.

    Did exactly as in Stan's how to video and it works like a charm, lost a few psi overnight for the first 2 weeks but now is ok. Now I'm going to convert the front wheel using a Halo Choirmaster.

    PS converted the Choirmaster, inverted thread by mistake but still it goes awesome and the conversion was super duper easy
    Last edited by dblspeed; 08-22-2007 at 03:45 AM.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown
    Sealant was everywhere. All over the windows, the doors, the seats, the ceiling, the floor, etc... . Drats!
    BB
    got any pictures of this?

    Thanks for sharing. If you ever go with Stans rims, you will laugh at how easy it is....OTOH it is so easy that you get very little sense of accomplishment (like what you are probably feeling now).

    I sure hope that all works out well for you.
    My ego is bigger and better looking than yours.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by unit
    got any pictures of this?

    Thanks for sharing. If you ever go with Stans rims, you will laugh at how easy it is....OTOH it is so easy that you get very little sense of accomplishment (like what you are probably feeling now).

    I sure hope that all works out well for you.
    I'm hoping they work out and handle an upcoming 24 hour event.

    No pictures of the Stans sealant shower. When I got home, I was too concerned to get it cleaned up before it made my Element air tight.

    And of course, I was über-worried my wife might thing I was in the back of the Element getting off with something that smelled like bike tires...

    BB

  85. #85
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    funny stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown
    I'm hoping they work out and handle an upcoming 24 hour event.

    No pictures of the Stans sealant shower. When I got home, I was too concerned to get it cleaned up before it made my Element air tight.

    And of course, I was über-worried my wife might thing I was in the back of the Element getting off with something that smelled like bike tires...

    BB
    Have you gotten them to burp yet? As long as they do not burp catastrophically, I would gain a bit more confidence. I have to admit...I would be scared to try it, they have done a great job convincing everyone not to try...as long as your efforts don't release hell on earth (as some have implied it may) I am interested in the results.

    ....air tight element...that is a good one....
    My ego is bigger and better looking than yours.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by unit
    Have you gotten them to burp yet? As long as they do not burp catastrophically, I would gain a bit more confidence. I have to admit...I would be scared to try it, they have done a great job convincing everyone not to try...as long as your efforts don't release hell on earth (as some have implied it may) I am interested in the results.

    ....air tight element...that is a good one....
    I've been yanking and twisting the tires as hard as I can with a pair of work gloves on to get them to burp. I used Stans test as the model for the glove test. No luck yet, as I cannot get them to break the bead and burp. I may take a C clamp to them like the Stans Movie http://www.notubes.com/moviecompar.php

    I haven't done that on my other wheels either.

    BB

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown
    And of course, I was über-worried my wife might thing I was in the back of the Element getting off with something that smelled like bike tires...

    BB
    Oh c'mon Bruce... You know she knows that's the case already. She's been married to you for how long now?! heh heh heh...

    Good work on the Delgado conversion. You found the magic trick. I've been using a slightly different technique, but essentially doing the same thing on my Delgado Race rims with great success. In fact, I just converted a new Hutchinson Bulldog 34c 'cross tire to tubeless using my getto setup last night! I love the being able to convert tires to self-sealing tubeless setups with materials from home depot, hobby lobby, the gas station and presta valves donated from two old tubes.

    BTW -- on the latex 'balls' question from forever ago -- I get 'em. They don't do any harm. I think it's just the collection of the latex as it dries and solidifies out of the liquid carrier. I pull 'em out of course, but I've got one tire that I put sealant in almost a year ago that's still holding air and hasn't flatted. It's really light now too, because I suspect there's just a dry latex membrane on the inside of the tire/rim... and probably a latex ball bouncing around in there too.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgersib
    Oh c'mon Bruce... You know she knows that's the case already. She's been married to you for how long now?! heh heh heh...

    Good work on the Delgado conversion. You found the magic trick. I've been using a slightly different technique, but essentially doing the same thing on my Delgado Race rims with great success. In fact, I just converted a new Hutchinson Bulldog 34c 'cross tire to tubeless using my getto setup last night! I love the being able to convert tires to self-sealing tubeless setups with materials from home depot, hobby lobby, the gas station and presta valves donated from two old tubes.

    BTW -- on the latex 'balls' question from forever ago -- I get 'em. They don't do any harm. I think it's just the collection of the latex as it dries and solidifies out of the liquid carrier. I pull 'em out of course, but I've got one tire that I put sealant in almost a year ago that's still holding air and hasn't flatted. It's really light now too, because I suspect there's just a dry latex membrane on the inside of the tire/rim... and probably a latex ball bouncing around in there too.
    Any idea what a little oozing black liquid that leaked out of the tire/wheel bead might be before I took them for a ride? Electrical tape coloring the sealant maybe? It looked kind of like motor oil in terms of color, but I wonder what it is. After the ride, the oozing was no longer happening. Maybe the excess sealant that I painted the tire beads with dripping out? Who knows?

    After the above post, I went out to the garage and inflated the tires to 37 psi. Then I performed the Stans glove and C clamp test to see if I could burp the tires or break the seal. I went in pretty far with the C clamp. I suppose to the point of there being a little more than an inch between the clamps. No problems. I didn't want to go clamp them beyond that. I did wear safety goggles just in case of an explosion. With gloves on my hand, there is absolutely no way I could budge the side of the tire to burp air. I gave it my all for several minutes. Way too difficult to unseat the tire.

    Outside of a little oozing dark color stuff before the first ride, I see no problems.

    I'm off to test them on a 2 hour training/interval ride. I start the academic teaching year on Thursday, so this may be my last summer vacation ride...

    BB

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown
    Any idea what a little oozing black liquid that leaked out of the tire/wheel bead might be before I took them for a ride? Electrical tape coloring the sealant maybe? It looked kind of like motor oil in terms of color, but I wonder what it is. After the ride, the oozing was no longer happening. Maybe the excess sealant that I painted the tire beads with dripping out? Who knows?
    Not sure on that one... That foam stuff you're using in the rim cavity could have been the culprit too, perhaps. I've never experienced the black ooze, but it doesn't sound like it was a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown
    After the above post, I went out to the garage and inflated the tires to 37 psi. Then I performed the Stans glove and C clamp test to see if I could burp the tires or break the seal. I went in pretty far with the C clamp. I suppose to the point of there being a little more than an inch between the clamps. No problems. I didn't want to go clamp them beyond that. I did wear safety goggles just in case of an explosion. With gloves on my hand, there is absolutely no way I could budge the side of the tire to burp air. I gave it my all for several minutes. Way too difficult to unseat the tire.
    Sounds like you did it right... I bet it looked sorta' comical though -- you in the garage with safety goggles on, a C-clamp in one hand and a wheel in the other. Total mad scientist scene!

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown
    I'm off to test them on a 2 hour training/interval ride. I start the academic teaching year on Thursday, so this may be my last summer vacation ride...

    BB
    Sorry to hear the summer vacation is over -- my wife Laura is back at it this week too. My summer vacation just never got started... I must be in the wrong profession!!

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgersib
    Not sure on that one... That foam stuff you're using in the rim cavity could have been the culprit too, perhaps. I've never experienced the black ooze, but it doesn't sound like it was a problem.
    I may not have done enough shaking and dancing to totally seal the bead. I might do some more tonight to make sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by mgersib
    Sounds like you did it right... I bet it looked sorta' comical though -- you in the garage with safety goggles on, a C-clamp in one hand and a wheel in the other. Total mad scientist scene!
    Yup, that was me. After the explosion of the front tire in the car on the way home from the gas station, I wasn't taking any chances. A blast in the eye would not be welcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by mgersib
    Sorry to hear the summer vacation is over -- my wife Laura is back at it this week too. My summer vacation just never got started... I must be in the wrong profession!!
    I usually work all summer (some opera gig somewhere), but took this summer off to coach baseball as it was my last chance before junior starts playing high school baseball next summer with "real" coaches. That's one nice thing about the teaching profession - summer vacation.

    My wife starts work tomorrow (speech therapist at a school), the kids have their first day of school, and the work routine begins in earnest tomorrow with the alarm at 6 am. Yippie! I can't wait.

    I just go back from my interval session with the Delgado Discs and Nanos. I ran over every curb, laid the bike flat in every corner, mashed as hard as I could out of saddle to flatten that front tire and put this conversion through the test. Everything held. Next up is an off road ride to hit the logs, rocks and roots.

    Odd thing about running the Nanos tubeless on the Salsa rims is the new shape they take. Normally, with a tube, the Nano is a pretty "round" tire in terms of the tread and edges. Without the tube in there and on the wide Delgado Disc rims, they kind of fatten out and take on a little more of a "square" appearance". Not a lot, but just enough for me to notice. I love the tires - and especially the fact that the new one weighed over 100 grams less than the one I blew up. Even with all of the Frost King weatherstripping, electrical tape, sealant and freeride rimstrips - I actually lost weight on the wheels than when running them tubed. The wheelset and conversion is still 470 grams heavier than my American Classics with the Karmas, but hey - these are big rims and bigger tires so it is to be expected.

    BB

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by unit
    I have to admit...I would be scared to try it, they have done a great job convincing everyone not to try...as long as your efforts don't release hell on earth (as some have implied it may) I am interested in the results.
    Unit, I have an update for you.

    I had to remount the front tire and add one wrap of Velox and one more wrap of electrical tape to get the freeride rimstrip to seat up against the rim wall. This was due to some oozing between the rim bead and rim that I couldn't halt. The air pressure had mashed down the Frost King weatherstripping (I should have used a wider and thicker Frost King strip) so that it was no longer fully reaching the rim wall on the front wheel.

    Anyway, after working through the DIY trouble shooting and posting messages back and forth at NoTubes with NoTubesPete, I think the upside is that we may see an upcoming available custom rimstrip from NoTubes called the Freeride Plus 4. This would be a rimstrip suited to be used in the wider 29"er rims such as Salsa Delgado Disc, WTB LaserDisc, Halo Freedom Disc, Sun Rhyno Lite, Velocity Blunt, Chris Holm Unicycle, etc... .

    As I said, the problem with the 26" Freeride strip is that by the time you stretch it long enough to fit on the 700c rim, it has effectively narrowed and requires a lot of build up under it to get the edges of the rimstrip to meet the rim walls. So NoTubesPete said a custom Freeride that is 4 inches longer could be made to address these wider rims that have hit the market and will continue to hit the market. This should make the conversion much less DIY troubleshooting intensive and be welcomed by those of us doing these conversions.

    In the meantime, my Delgado Disc conversion is up and running and I will be racing them today.

    BB

  92. #92
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    I beleive I was the first to build them up this way since I got the idea from my own noggin. I ran them all last year through 11 races and numerous trail miles with zero probs. I was using and still use Ignitors. I think if they are gonna blow off, it will happen immediately during the mounting process though I had no issues. Ive since moved on to the Arch rims and the delgs are now just my winter rims so tubes only. BTW dont bother with Stans in the tube, it dont work for squat!
    Rule of thumb- 1 Lb. costs 2 sec. per mile of climb

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    Running a set of Stan's Arch rims, yellow tape, Stan's sealant and Geax Saguaro tires.
    Works good as a tubeless setup, and I actually like the Geax tires during these dry conditions because of the heat wave here in the South East.

    They hold air great and haven't burped any air while riding.

    I'll be replacing these with Panaracer Rampage tires soon.

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    ZTR 355's with yellow rim tape and Olympic valve, Hutchinson UST ready Pythons, 1 scoop and no problems so far. Running 25ish psi and have ridden them hard on rocky trails, no burping and surprising level of grip - fast too. Inflated real easy with a floor pump.

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    Bruce, did the Nanos stay on?

    Hi,

    I was curious how the tubeless nano conversion is holding up. I also have one tubeless (rear only) because I am too scared to put one on the front. Mine is mounted on an arch rim however. What a fast rolling tire with good traction at 31 psi. Three weeks on mine.

    Riding is thrilling when you always wonder if your tire is going to blow off! And even more thrilling I imagine if/when it does.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by STFU
    Hi,

    I was curious how the tubeless nano conversion is holding up. I also have one tubeless (rear only) because I am too scared to put one on the front. Mine is mounted on an arch rim however. What a fast rolling tire with good traction at 31 psi. Three weeks on mine.

    Riding is thrilling when you always wonder if your tire is going to blow off! And even more thrilling I imagine if/when it does.
    Yup. I ran the Nanos front and rear on Saturday at the Nebraska State XC Championships. Rooty and bumpy all the way with the most fun carving corners I have ever seen on a course. I ran them at 28 (front) and 30 (rear) psi.

    Here's a shot:

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/1263334932/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1052/1263334932_a5c24c77c0_o.jpg" width="533" height="800" alt="Grinding it out" /></a>

    I just converted the Panaracer/IRD Fire Pro XC tires on my American Classic wheels for a 24 hour race this weekend. Both the Nanos and the Fire Pros will be used throughout the race.

    BB

  97. #97
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    I have been running the Specialized Resolution Pro 29 x 2.3 on WTB SpeedDisc rims with a 26" Stan's strip and no problems, as long as I keep the pressure up over about 25 - 26 psi minimum. Lower presures for me (getting below 23 - 24 psi) can end up with burps and I had one catastrophic "insta-deflate" from running about 20 psi in the "how low can I go?" experimentation. Ended with a slight shoulder separation and a 3-inch gash in my arm. Think I'll keep the pressure up! Yesterday, in preparation for a loaded tour, I put an Exiwolf (wire bead) on a Velocity Blunt rim with the 26" Stan's strip. I like this as a rear tire. Put some detergent/water on the bead with a brush, aired up with the compressor no problem - hold air about 15 - 20 seconds. Popped the bead in one spot, put in 3 scoops of Stan's and re-inflated. Spin and shake for about 30 seconds and no loss of air. I'm heading out in a bit to add a scoop of Stan's to the front tire for the trip and hopefully I will not need any of my spare stuff for the duration. If I get a flat, carrying 2 tubes, patch kits and a spare tire (Panaracer Fire 700 x 45c) should I have casing damage that can't be booted... Stan's has worked so well for me on my 26" and 29" - if you can make it work for you it is well worth the set-up to get it mounted the first time. So easy to live with if there are any significant thorns or such in your area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Live
    Mine

    Bontrager Mustang Disc Rims
    1 Wrap Electrical Tape
    1 Wrap Strapping Tape
    Original Stans 26" Strip
    Bontrager Front XR 2.25's Front and Back
    30-32 psi front34-36 back. Still playing with this
    Greg
    I have the exact rims and strips I'm ready to convert my 29ers. I've run 26" mavic 517's with UST Pythons and Stan's rimstrips for several years with no problems whatsoever.

    Maybe this is a stupid question, but I keep seeing guys post about using both electrical tape and strapping tape in tandem - but it seems like the strapping tape should go on first, then the e-tape, then the rimstrip. What is the preferred order?

    FWIW, I already did my front wheel with e-tape, 26" rimstrip, 1.5 scoops stan's with IRC Notos wirebead and skipped the strapping tape. It's working fine after 1 week.
    Last edited by thrasher911; 08-29-2007 at 11:27 AM.

  99. #99
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    I did not use any e-tape on my rear wheel - just the Stan's strip. Figured that the fluid would dry and seal any potential leak on the strip. (26" on a 29" rim is really snug).
    I've also done a non-Stan's with 2 layers of strapping tape, 2 layers of e-tape, a Mavic valve stem and a bit of RTV as sealant around the stem. 26 x 2.25 Trailbears have been holding for well over 1 year now - no flats or problems. Added a scoop of fluid a few months back but it was still liquid inside...

  100. #100
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    Just a got a pair of arches in and my buddy James and I got them laced up today. Used the 5g valve stems, Yellow tape and 1.5 scoops of Stan's sealant. Sealed up very quickly first try (used compressor). Sat for 5 hours before I left for work and no pressure drop yet. I'll check them when I get home from work tonight and again in the A.M. before going out and giving them a test spin.

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