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  1. #1
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    Roval Control SL 29 Failure

    Received my new 2014 Epic S-Works Dec 5th, and on the 24th I noticed the front rim deformed.
    After going back and forth with my Spec dealer for a week finally received a reply from Spec that I had to buy a new rim because the damage was caused by heat from my car's exhaust.
    Yes, I verified the position of my bike on the hitch mount rack and front rim was directly in line with the exhaust pipe and about 20" away.
    With my old Moots & Mavic rims I never had a problem for 6+ years with this set-up.
    The thought never crossed my mind, but Spec says that it is common knowledge and I should have known
    No warning regarding the exhaust pipe heat on the Roval Wheels Instructions Guide available online for the Epic S-Works web page.
    Am I an Idiot ?

  2. #2
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    The tire was intact still? I melted a tire on a 4 hour trip but the rim was fine. Newbie mistake on my part.

  3. #3
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    I'm not sure it's common knowledge, but people are certainly becoming more aware. Enve now has this info prominently displayed on its web page. I just learned about it recently.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by frangaly View Post
    Am I an Idiot ?



    No but I bet you won't be "less smart" next time.

  5. #5
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    The tire is intact and the wheel holds air. I am just afraid to ride it !
    Roval Control SL 29 Failure-rovaldamage.jpg

  6. #6
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    Even if the instructions said something, would you have really read them?
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  7. #7
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    I only did it once - fortunately I only bubbled the side wall of a new LUST tyre in the process. Previous non UST had never given an issue.

    Surprising that your tire hasn't bubbled given the clear issue with the rim?

  8. #8
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    Live and learn. It's not their fault. You can save a little money and buy a rim from light bikes.

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    A good manufacturer should warranty that and hell NO I wouldn't ride it either. At the very least spesh should give you a crash replacement price on a new hoop. Even if you had to pay shipping and pay for the build you could be back in the saddle soon for a few hundred bucks.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJDude View Post
    A good manufacturer should warranty that and hell NO I wouldn't ride it either. At the very least spesh should give you a crash replacement price on a new hoop. Even if you had to pay shipping and pay for the build you could be back in the saddle soon for a few hundred bucks.



    It is not a warranty issue. A "good" company treats their customers fairly, not burdening other customers with the cost of giveaways.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJDude View Post
    A good manufacturer should warranty that and hell NO I wouldn't ride it either. At the very least spesh should give you a crash replacement price on a new hoop. Even if you had to pay shipping and pay for the build you could be back in the saddle soon for a few hundred bucks.
    Why in the world would this be in any way Specialized's fault?
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    Why in the world would this be in any way Specialized's fault?
    Agree

    To the OP expect a letter from their "Law Team" soon..........

    ;-0

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    Thanks for all the opinions. For, against, and neutral !

    Believe it or not, as soon as I got home with my new bike, I downloaded all the manuals and went through the Torque Matrix (I have read that proper torque is crucial for carbon frames) and the Roval Wheels Instructions Guide. For the wheels I was looking for the gage and length of the spokes so I could buy a few spares given I live in Panama and I could never find locally a spare.

    I have never owned a carbon bike or wheels. Given specialized knew of the potential problem, and I spent about $10K on a bike, I feel a verbal or printed warning would have been the right thing to do.

    Am I right to assume that most bikes are transported in back mounted racks ?

    I'll take this as the cost of learning

    Thanks to all !!!

  14. #14
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    I don't think it's common knowledge that the exhaust will ruin a tyre, let alone a carbon wheel. Have a trawl through this site and see how many instances of wheel failures like this you can find. This is the first that I know of.

    It would be much better if Specialized warned people of this. And keep posting your story and picture on various sites so others become aware of the issue.

    Tim

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by frangaly View Post
    Am I right to assume that most bikes are transported in back mounted racks ?
    I would guess maybe 5% if that.
    Sorry for your mishap get a LB rim and be done with it
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    I just finished building my '14 S-Works Tarmac, and the Roval Rapide CLX wheelset that I installed on the bike included a warning label regarding vehicle exhaust and the carbon rims. I will go through all the packaging and see if I can find it somewhere. I do think it's something that road cyclists are more aware of, because the use of carbon rims/wheels has been more common on road bikes for a while now.

  17. #17
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    I use a rear mount, but it is not one the bikes hang from, but rather a miniature roof rack if you will that mounts in the hitch. My wheels are no where near the exhaust and sit above it actually. I have carbon wheels on both my mtn and my road bike. Not something i ever gave thought to, but not an issue with my rack.
    '12 Flash 29r C3 with a few mods
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  18. #18
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    I don't think this is common knowledge. Of course, if you ask someone if they think hot exhaust gases might harm a carbon fiber rim, they would say yes. But lots of people use hitch racks and most of them have been using aluminum rims and haven't been having any problems. I have a buddy who just bought a new bike with CF rims that he transports on a hitch mount, and I'm sure he's not thought about this. So as often happens with new technology, we need to adapt our habits - and education about this is really useful! Personally, I think Specialized should replace the rim at low cost because it is not "common knowledge" and they have not clearly warned about this damage, but obviously it is not a manufacturing defect so they would be doing this as a gesture of good will (and because they didn't warn about this issue).

  19. #19
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    Kudos for ford,, side exit.

  20. #20
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    I agree if it was not clearly marked they should at least do a crash replacement. I broke my frame on my bike but I had had it painted which voided the warranty, that's totally on me for not reading the whole warranty, anyway the bike company gave me a new frame on crash replacement. I now will stop any custom paint until my warranty runs out. In your case I think they should have done the same thing, I think it says allot a bout a company on how they resolve issues like this. Personally I would have never thought a car exhaust would be hot enough to damage a rim like that, especially since your tire was 20"away. I can hold my hand closer than that on my car and not get burned.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wombat View Post
    I don't think it's common knowledge that the exhaust will ruin a tyre, let alone a carbon wheel. Have a trawl through this site and see how many instances of wheel failures like this you can find. This is the first that I know of.

    It would be much better if Specialized warned people of this. And keep posting your story and picture on various sites so others become aware of the issue.

    Tim
    This is definitely not the first thread on this.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by fahza29er View Post
    Personally I would have never thought a car exhaust would be hot enough to damage a rim like that, especially since your tire was 20"away. I can hold my hand closer than that on my car and not get burned.
    Automotive exhaust is very hot, and if you hold your hand next to the exhaust when the engine is running at load you will definitely be burned. You must have been holding your hand next to the exhaust while the engine was idling or the muffler was still cold.

    I think that it is fairly obvious that you shouldn't have any part of your bike near the exhaust of your car. However, I can totally see myself overlooking this and making the same mistake. I think that Specialized should offer a discounted crash-replacement rim in this case. This rim failure was definitely not caused by a defect, so Specialized isn't obligated to replace it under warranty although it would be cool if they did.

  23. #23
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    http://www.enve.com/cache/DOC246_ENV...20130612120012

    "Placing a carbon rim too close to the exhaust may result in softening of the resins which can irreparably damage the rim. "

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by frangaly
    Am I right to assume that most bikes are transported in back mounted racks ?
    Quote Originally Posted by PauLCa916 View Post
    I would guess maybe 5% if that...
    Really?!? 5% of bikes transported by hitch racks?
    Not sure where you live, but around here it's like 75%

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    Why in the world would this be in any way Specialized's fault?
    Totally agree, OP has no one else to blame.

  26. #26
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    Its always bad to put your wheel in the way of the exhaust carbon rim or not...how about your tire melting? 20" is far away and the exhaust wouldn't have caused the damage..it had to be v. close or touching it.
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

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  27. #27
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    This warning was attached to the Roval carbon wheels on my Epic and Tarmac that were just built up this past month.
    Roval Control SL 29 Failure-warning.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by frangaly View Post
    Received my new 2014 Epic S-Works Dec 5th, and on the 24th I noticed the front rim deformed.
    After going back and forth with my Spec dealer for a week finally received a reply from Spec that I had to buy a new rim because the damage was caused by heat from my car's exhaust.
    Yes, I verified the position of my bike on the hitch mount rack and front rim was directly in line with the exhaust pipe and about 20" away.
    With my old Moots & Mavic rims I never had a problem for 6+ years with this set-up.
    The thought never crossed my mind, but Spec says that it is common knowledge and I should have known
    No warning regarding the exhaust pipe heat on the Roval Wheels Instructions Guide available online for the Epic S-Works web page.
    Am I an Idiot ?

  28. #28
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    ^^Alrighty then.
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

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  29. #29
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    Maybe we should start seeing this equipment as PLASTIC (resin) bikes and wheels that are reinforced with carbon fiber.

    If I would have thought of the bike as made out of plastic (resin) I would have been more carefull

    The wheel is in fact 20" away from the exhaust, but the car is dieselRoval Control SL 29 Failure-p1040490r.jpgRoval Control SL 29 Failure-p1040492r.jpg

  30. #30
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    So this really isn't a Roval Wheel failure......the OP damaged/broke/destroyed/ruined the wheel.
    I resolve to constantly assert my honest opinion on anything and everything - whether it is requested or not.
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  31. #31
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    That is a Toyota Prado correct? I believe the exhaust points straight back and not pointed down. I have a similar vehicle (Lexus GX470) and the exhaust melted a plastic container I had on a hitch rack (not bike rack). It gets hot and they only way to be safe is to make sure the bike is above the exhaust.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by frangaly View Post
    Maybe we should start seeing this equipment as PLASTIC (resin) bikes and wheels that are reinforced with carbon fiber.

    If I would have thought of the bike as made out of plastic (resin) I would have been more carefull

    The wheel is in fact 20" away from the exhaust, but the car is dieselClick image for larger version. 

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    Isn't the EGT on a diesel higher than a gas engine? Can't remember, been years since my last diesel.
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  33. #33
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    Yes, 2007 Toyota Prado Diesel

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_Lablaw View Post
    This warning was attached to the Roval carbon wheels on my Epic and Tarmac that were just built up this past month.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    That's what I was looking for..

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    I'm really quite shocked at the number of people needing/wanting warning labels. SMH.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by frangaly View Post
    The tire is intact and the wheel holds air. I am just afraid to ride it !
    Click image for larger version. 

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    frangaly, are you certain the rim is damaged or is it just the decal? What does your LBS say? I would assume they would have taken off that warning sticker before you picked up your bike if you're saying you did not see one.

    IMHO, you paid a ton of cash for that bike and I would have had the LBS where you dropped that ton of cash contacting Specialized. Not saying the out come would be different but maybe both Spesh and your LBS could cut you a good deal on repairs.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by RRRoubaix View Post
    Really?!? 5% of bikes transported by hitch racks?
    Not sure where you live, but around here it's like 75%
    I would say about 50/50 with the folks I hang out with.

    But yeah, time to check those tire/exhaust pipe positioning, and/or make some heat shields on the rack.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durt View Post
    I'm really quite shocked at the number of people needing/wanting warning labels. SMH.
    I would want one...at least at that price point. I would actually expect the shop to do a serious walk through of the bike including do's and don'ts when purchasing (although I wouldn't blame the shop in the slightest for what happened unless they removed the warning). I would also expect Specialized to offer him a new rim at cost. It's not like they would lose any money.
    Killing it with close inspection.

  39. #39
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    Fire bad.

  40. #40
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    If Specy puts a tag on it and the shop took it off...you have a case.

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    frangaly, three options to consider:

    1) The cheapest- remove the wheel that is closest to the exhaust whenever the bike is in the rack

    2) Middle expensive- have the exhaust pipe repositioned to blow exhaust to the side, away from the rack.

    3) Most expensive- buy a different rack that raises the wheels above the exhaust flow

    Sorry to hear of your misfortune!

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
    frangaly, three options to consider:

    1) The cheapest- remove the wheel that is closest to the exhaust whenever the bike is in the rack

    2) Middle expensive- have the exhaust pipe repositioned to blow exhaust to the side, away from the rack.

    3) Most expensive- buy a different rack that raises the wheels above the exhaust flow

    Sorry to hear of your misfortune!
    Or the really cheap solution, $10 exhaust tip from a local parts store that turns the exhaust down instead of straight out.
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Or the really cheap solution, $10 exhaust tip from a local parts store that turns the exhaust down instead of straight out.
    That may or may not be enough to make a difference but I fear it would not make enough of a difference if you consider years of exposure. What I mean is that it will redirect the heat away to a degree but not move it away completely like a differently located exhaust pipe would do (think side exhaust like on a pick up truck).

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    If Specy puts a tag on it and the shop took it off...you have a case.

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    jesus, really? Why doesn't he take his lbs for all the flats he gets and worn brake pads since the bike didn't have a warning to not run over sharp objects and that normal wear occurs, not to mention the stupidity of todays sue happy citizens looking to get something for free as a result of their OWN ignorance.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by frangaly View Post
    Yes, 2007 Toyota Prado Diesel
    And its a turbo diesel...correct?

    You have 2 things going for you that are going to yield higher EGT's than a typical NA engine.

    As mentioned a downturn tip could also be rotated outward which should help get the hot exhaust flow get out into the turbulent airflow coming off of the back tire and from underneath the car to help disperse the hot exhaust. But I would be getting the bike turned around on the rack if possible so that the wheel is up higher out of the exhaust flow coming straight out of the exhaust. Even if you had a shop rework the exhaust tip to exit to the side, it still has pretty much a straight path for hot exhaust to flow back into the rim the way the bike sits on the rack as it is now.

  46. #46
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    Specialized has a crash replacement policy for their roval carbon rims. I believe it's $125 per rim. You also have to factor in the labor your LBS will charge to rebuild/relace the wheel. (or do it yourself)
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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    If Specy puts a tag on it and the shop took it off...you have a case.
    Seriously? Please.

    Chances are highly likely that you won't find any information in the owners manual for a car that warns of the extreme temperatures of the car's exhaust system. It's not in the manuals for any of my cars.

    The owners manual will not warn you not to put your hand on the hot exhaust pipe. it won't warn you to not take the vehicle off road in high fire danger areas for fear the exhaust system under the vehicle's carriage could come into contact with dry brush and ignite a fire. The owners manual will, however, warn you not to drink and drive as well as to make sure you use the seat belts. Silly they even have to put those warnings in the manual, but we all know they are not heeded by everyone.

    It's unfortunate that anyone experienced damage due to the wheel being too close to the exhaust gasses. And it is unfortunate that a bike owner using a rear rack wouldn't even think that damage could occur (unless they live in snow country and have witnessed first hand the ability of the car's exhaust to melt a snow bank and ice on the road rather quickly). On the other hand, for anyone that has walked by the exhaust of a car that is running while wearing shorts - the heat is very easy to feel!!!

    But that doesn't make it the fault of the automaker or the bicycle maker for any damage occured. I would look more to the owners manual of your bicycle rack to see what warnings they included in the manual.

    My Yakima racks all include this warning (which I heed):

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/11819292365/" title="Yakima Rack Warnings by BBcamerata, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5506/11819292365_64ec8b961e.jpg" width="255" height="340" alt="Yakima Rack Warnings"></a>

    I would suggest the OP consult the brand of rack and the owners manual for it to see if a similar warning is issued. It's pretty standard, so I bet it is there in a clear statement such as the Yakima racks include in their owners manuals.

    It happened and the lesson learned hopefully will prevent it from happening again. Life is full of lessons. Nobody owes the owner a new rim because of it. He needs to pay for a replacement and move on is what I say.

  48. #48
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    I can't wait for the OP to come back on here complaining his frame is damaged/scratched by the way he mounts his bike on the rack. If I spent that much $$ on a bike, I would definitely take a little better care of it.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by frangaly View Post
    Maybe we should start seeing this equipment as PLASTIC (resin) bikes and wheels that are reinforced with carbon fiber.

    If I would have thought of the bike as made out of plastic (resin) I would have been more carefull

    The wheel is in fact 20" away from the exhaust, but the car is dieselClick image for larger version. 

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    Yeah, why not save yourself more issues and just flip the bike the other way to get the wheel away from the exhaust. Seems like a no brainer to me if the exhaust in fact did damage the wheel.
    '12 Flash 29r C3 with a few mods
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  50. #50
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    All I was saying is that if the manufacture puts a warning label on something, there is a reason, and if the shop takes it off, well…you can certainly make the case that they did it and should take care of things...hard to prove though. This is just one of those live and learn deals and I wouldn’t have thought it would do that if the bike was that far from the exhaust. Best to hope for is a crash-replacement deal.

    I agree 100% that you have to have some common sense and can’t blame everyone for your issues blah blah blah..sheesh.
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