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  1. #1
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    Rockshox SID XX and World Cup forks

    Any one of you all own one of these and weigh over 200? I weigh about 215 and have been told these forks get real flexy if you over 180. I was just reading a review on bike radar with the complaint about the flexiness and hearing the brake rotors rub from time to time due to the flexiness. I thought because these forks are carbon steerers that they would be super stiff but I guess not. So any feed back from you all? Also wanted to say I was planning to adjust the spring in the SID to go to 120mm travel.

    The other fork I'm now considering is the Revelation and 2014 Fox 120mm Float32 FIT. This is for a Jet 9 RDO. Any reviews or experiences? What is your weight and what bike are you running these on? I used to have the Fox 32 120mm fork which was pre-CTD, and I loved it. However, I don't have experience on the CTD stuff but I've heard they have been improved for 2014.

  2. #2
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    I'm about 215 lbs. ready-to-ride and am running a SID WC on my Czar and I have not noticed any rub from the brake rotors or any vagueness in the handling. Though it could be that I am not PROCORE enough to notice.

  3. #3
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    I only weigh 165-170 and have a 2013 SID XX alloy taper 15mm, and I do notice some flex. I don't notice brake rub, but I do notice some flex in the stanchions/lowers connection such as independent leg movement sometimes. there is some fore/aft flex but that doesn't bother me as much. It's all especially noticeable after having had a WB Loop on the bike previously. That's gotta be the stiffest straightest tracking XC 29er fork.

    I won't give up the XX SID though because it's on my ss and I LOVE the XX lockout.

    I have primarily been a rigid ss rider the last 8 years or so. I have only had 3 other 29 suspension forks in that time, but this history might help understand my opinion:

    2012 SID XX, straight steerer, QR: I could notice the tracking vagueness sometimes, but not as much as the 2013 probably because it was at 80mm travel and had more bushing overlap. Also only rode it a few longer races primarily so I wasn't riding the same way as the bike with the 2013

    2010ish FOX Float RLC: Rode it on my 1x9 hardtail. OK. Still wasn't into suspension yet back then. Felt flexier than the others

    2008ish WB Magic 80: not a good fork period


    If you are concerned with stiffness and tracking, and don't mind the few extra ounces I would get the White Bros (now MRP) Loop. It's stiff. The platform setting works well and their QR15 system is super stiff and solid. The only other thing to mention is the Aura damper does not have a true lockout if you are looking for that, but it will feel like it if you set it right. I always thought to myself that if I had a geared bike I would have kept that Loop I had, but standing on grunting on the ss I didn't like the bobbing. Any seated climb was great though.

  4. #4
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    Great, thanks guys, anyone else with some feedback on this?

  5. #5
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    I weigh 220 loaded up and had a SID XX with the Xloc for a season and sold it. I wasn't happy with small bump vs big hit. Mine didn't have a carbon steerer... aluminum tapered. I didn't notice any flexiness. I loved the Xloc to quickly lock it out on climbs. But I haven't missed it since I put the White Brothers Loop on that I am running now. The Loop is full of win.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    I thought because these forks are carbon steerers that they would be super stiff
    The steerer size is just one factor, mostly affecting fore-aft strength and stiffness. While that is important, it does literally nothing for torsion and lateral stiffness. Torsion is affected significantly by the crown size, bushing interface (overlap, stanchion size, etc), stanchion interface at the crown, brake arch, lowers, and axle. That's likely where people are feeling more flex. Mind you, the Sid is not a "flexy" fork any more like the old early 2000 forks, those were rubbish, but it will have a lighter crown with less material, probably less material on the brake arch, thinner leg casting, and so on. It's going to be a little more flexy as it's designed for a lighter rider and not hard downhill pounding. A heavier rider can ride it and may not even feel the "flex", but there's a lot more to it than the tapered steerer.
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  7. #7
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    2013 sid wc

    Now that I have a few long rides on my new fork I can say it is awesome. I do
    have the carbon tapper with the 9mm QR. It is stiffer than the fork it replaced which
    was a non-tapper Minute. It is light at 1480 with Xloc. I am at 197lbs and the first
    ride I ran 20% sag and did bottom out a few times but now run 10% and feels
    perfect. Soaks up the small bumps and the fork has a little movement when lockout which is
    fine with me. I also replaced the RP23 with Monarch XX with Xloc and that was a
    huge improvement. Going to set them up with the Sprint Xloc but I'm not loving
    the lockout button mechanism. No real defined latch and hard to glace at and know
    where it is. Having to keep track of two lockouts might add to the problem.

    Goodbye Fox!!
    Rockshox SID XX and World Cup forks-fork-rs-wc-small.jpg

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    Any one of you all own one of these and weigh over 200? I weigh about 215 and have been told these forks get real flexy if you over 180. I was just reading a review on bike radar with the complaint about the flexiness and hearing the brake rotors rub from time to time due to the flexiness. I thought because these forks are carbon steerers that they would be super stiff but I guess not. So any feed back from you all? Also wanted to say I was planning to adjust the spring in the SID to go to 120mm travel.

    The other fork I'm now considering is the Revelation and 2014 Fox 120mm Float32 FIT. This is for a Jet 9 RDO. Any reviews or experiences? What is your weight and what bike are you running these on? I used to have the Fox 32 120mm fork which was pre-CTD, and I loved it. However, I don't have experience on the CTD stuff but I've heard they have been improved for 2014.
    R u sure your not looking at a review of an older generation SID XX / WC? I vaguely remember reading an article in Bike Radar which mentioned the SIDs flex being a possible issue with heavier riders but that review was for a SID that was a couple of generations older than the latest version. Have not heard of any flex issues with the current version/

  9. #9
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    I've had both a 100mm XX World Cup (15mm) and a 100mm XX Tapered Alloy steerer (QR). For the most part, I agree with the BikeRadar reviews assessment. I weight 165 lb loaded up, ready to ride. I've been really happy with both.

    -The alloy steerer is definitely stiffer fore-aft. This is the only direction where I noticed a difference.
    -The World Cup didn't ride poorly though, the brake caliper never rubbed (15 mm axle).
    -If anything the flex added a smoothness to the ride feel of the fork that the alloy model doesn't have.
    -I would not convert a 29er World Cup to 120 mm travel, especially if you are 200lb or heavier, I would venture a guess that the carbon crown didn't meet one of SRAMs internal strength standards with the added axle to crown length with the 29er chassis stretched to 120mm (pure speculation here, there's got to be a reason it's not offered, SRAM's never been a company afraid to add SKU's)

    I've also run both the XX damper and the RCT3 damper in both forks. I prefer the RCT3 damper, it definitely addresses the small bump vs big hit issue that duggus alluded to. But if remote lockout is a must-have, it does not offer that.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by brentos View Post
    I've had both a 100mm XX World Cup (15mm) and a 100mm XX Tapered Alloy steerer (QR). For the most part, I agree with the BikeRadar reviews assessment. I weight 165 lb loaded up, ready to ride. I've been really happy with both.

    -The alloy steerer is definitely stiffer fore-aft. This is the only direction where I noticed a difference.
    -The World Cup didn't ride poorly though, the brake caliper never rubbed (15 mm axle).
    -If anything the flex added a smoothness to the ride feel of the fork that the alloy model doesn't have.
    -I would not convert a 29er World Cup to 120 mm travel, especially if you are 200lb or heavier, I would venture a guess that the carbon crown didn't meet one of SRAMs internal strength standards with the added axle to crown length with the 29er chassis stretched to 120mm (pure speculation here, there's got to be a reason it's not offered, SRAM's never been a company afraid to add SKU's)

    I've also run both the XX damper and the RCT3 damper in both forks. I prefer the RCT3 damper, it definitely addresses the small bump vs big hit issue that duggus alluded to. But if remote lockout is a must-have, it does not offer that.
    I thought all current SIDs only use Rockshox's Solo air motion control DNA damping system?

  11. #11
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    The RTC3 is the only model with the DIG valve and Rapid Recovery. Wrong--all models have it.
    Here's a explanation from Sea Otter reporting from twentynineinches.

    "The New DIG valve and Rapid Recovery are featured in the SID and Revelation forks. DIG is supposed to…well, let’s let SRAM say it from the press release:

    DIG VALVE: The TRAIL SPECIALIST

    The Dig Valve is the name of the latest addition to the damping circuit on both SID and Revelation. RockShox has re-designed the rebound piston to accommodate the Dig Valve, which provides the optimal level of control for both low and high speed compression, carefully controlling the oil flow to provide the rider with the right amount of support and impact absorption. The piston redesign allows the use of Rapid Recovery, a rebound tune that allows the shock to recover faster between consecutive bumps, for greater traction and a more controlled ride.

    Keeping your wheels tracking and on the ground helps you stay in control and go faster. If DIG and Rapid Recovery do that, then we will be all the better for it."

    I demoed a Trek SF 9.8 on my home trails with the SID RL solo with Motion Control. It had no small bump compliance even if setup at a much lower than recommended psi. Climbing over rocks and roots was like riding rigid. No way would I ride this setup. It is totally different from my Manitou Tower Pro with medium spring at 95psi, I'm 175.
    The damper for RTC3 is about $170 and could go in other models and also a Reba according to Sram Tech Support. RL damper I hope is cheaper to go in the Reba on the SF 9.6.
    Last edited by eb1888; 12-21-2013 at 06:29 PM.

  12. #12
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    The dig valve / rapid recovery is on all six models of Rockshox's SID line (XX World Cup, RCT3, World Cup, XX, RLT , RL). They also all use the Motion Control DNA / Solo Air damping system.

    SID | Rockshox | SRAM

  13. #13
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    I missed that when talking to Rockshox Tech.
    That is very good news. Maybe the SF 9.8 I demoed in September didn't yet have a 2014 SID RL fork
    That helps with a swap option.

  14. #14
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    I have the SID XX with a 15mm through axle. What I notice most about it is the lack of flex. It goes where you point it without any tendency to stray off-line. The Solo Air system is ridiculously easy to set up, but the pressure recommendations on the fork are way high. I just played with the pressure until I found a setting where I use ~90% of the travel on a typical ride without any big hits. It feels great over small bumps and handles heavily rooted areas really well. I'm 173#, so I don't know how it will work for heavier riders, but I suspect that it will be fine if you have the through axle. If not, who knows?
    Last edited by Bnystrom; 12-22-2013 at 04:56 AM.

  15. #15
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    I'm curious if the only advantage is the the carbon for lower weight savings on the XX SID's? I've seen others respond that the RCT3 is similar to the CTD that Fox uses but is much more plush and is the better fork of the SID line. That is if you are not really concerned about a remote lockout. In another thread it seems the RCT3 handles the bigger hits much nicer with the only draw back of a bit more weight to the XX line. Compared to an FIT Fox float 120mm it is still much lighter even with a 15mm TA. I want something that will handle the bigger hits well with 120mm travel for the Jet 9 RDO. The other option as I originally stated was the Fox.

    I had a Fox FIT 120mm pre CTD and it was nice, it was on my tallboy carbon, then Fox switched to this CTD and I've read not so good reviews that the fork is just not as plush any longer and then Fox change it a bit with the 2014 model, allegedly. Still waiting for reviews to see how well it is. For me its really coming down the SID and the Fox 120mm.

    Thanks all for the feedback, its helping me out tremendously.

  16. #16
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    The XX damper is available with the carbon crown or the alloy crown.

    From memory, the lineup is as follows, from most expensive to least.

    Sid XX World Cup (carbon crown, 80mm, 100mm)
    Sid World Cup (carbon crown, RCT3 damper, 80 mm, 100mm, hard to find this sku)
    Sid XX (alloy crown, 80 mm, 100mm, 120mm)
    Sid RCT3 (allow crown, 80 mm, 100mm, 120mm) - lighter than the XX because of omission of the remote.
    Sid RLT (alloy crown, 80mm, 100mm, 120mm)
    Sid RL (alloy crown, 80 mm, 100mm, 120mm)

    The lightest model should be the Sid World Cup with RCT3 damper. The XX damper lacks low and high-speed compression damping, which is why I think the RCT3 performs better. The XX damper does have an adjustable lockout blow-off though, it may be the same in function as the RLT damper, but with a remote.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by brentos View Post
    The XX damper lacks low and high-speed compression damping.
    I guarantee the XX has low and high speed compression damping.


    That said, the RCT3 is a fairly standard type of arrangement in off-road suspension, with a shim controlled compression piston and bladder at the top of the cartridge and rebound piston on shaft on the bottom end.

    The "rapid recovery" is just a BS name for a shimmed rebound setup, something all companies should have been using 20 years ago, but unfortunately only the last two for most of the mainstream ones. The new RS stuff is pretty good though, damping wise it's very good and it seems like they actually want to make decent suspension stuff these days. I like my pike.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    I'm curious if the only advantage is the the carbon for lower weight savings on the XX SID's?
    That seems to be the only advantage of the World Cup models over the standard SIDs with the alloy steerer/crown.

    Here are a few other tidbits from the Rock Shox site:
    SID | Rockshox | SRAM

    The SID World Cup (1440 gr.) without the remote is the lightest version of the SID by 148 grams vs. the RCT3 (carbon crown, 1588 gr.) and 45 grams vs. the SID XX World Cup with the remote (1485).

    The SID XX World Cup is 103 grams lighter than the RCT3 with the carbon crown. That includes the Pushlock remote.

    The SID XX with the alloy crown and the remote (1633 gr.) is only 45 grams heavier than the SID RCT3 with the carbon crown.

    The SID RLT (alloy crown, 1584 gr.) is actually slightly lighter than the RCT3 with its carbon crown. BTW, there is no alloy crown version of the RCT3 in the current SID line.

    The 15mm through axle adds 87 grams, but you get a bit of that back with a lighter hub. For example, the 15mm adapters for Stan's 330 hubs weigh 16 grams less than the 9mm adapters. It's still heavier, but it's also considerably stiffer, so you have to decide which is more important to you, weight or performance. That will depend a lot on your weight.

    Here's a link to an explanation of the differences in the dampers:
    Motion Control DNA | Rockshox | SRAM
    Last edited by Bnystrom; 12-22-2013 at 09:14 AM.

  19. #19
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    To distill all the Rockshox SID data down that has quite a bit of marketing crap mixed in my take is as follows:

    1) All the SIDs use the same basic damping system/damping cartridge (DNA motion control / Solo air)
    2) Key basic differences:

    a) Carbon crown & steerer vs.AL (there may be one that has a carbon crown and AL steerer)
    b) With or without remote
    c) Damper cartridge adjustments

    3) with / without Carbon crown / steerer is purely weight savings driven
    4) Shock with handlebar remote limits basic adjustment to two settings - locked out or fully open. Non remote has three - locked out, intermediate, open
    5) The RCT3 also has a low speed compression adjustment. This is where the bump gobbling crap comes in. The SID forks that do not have this adjustment will a pre set low speed compression setting which may be too firm for some. The flip side is that if you set the low speed compression very low the fork will generate a lot of brake dive / peddle bob. Again on the RCT3 this setting is adjustable.
    6) I believe they all have external floodgate (blow off) adjustability but haven't really checked. Blow off is the amount of force required to allow the fork to travel when it is set in the lock out position.

    Again my take. See link for better explanation of fork settings Suspension Set-up Basics for the Beginner

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cusco View Post
    5) The RCT3 also has a low speed compression adjustment. This is where the bump gobbling crap comes in.
    Low-speed compression is essentially a platform setting, as it affects motions that compress the fork relatively slowly, such as pedaling, rollers, g-forces in corners and such as opposed to high-speed motions that compress the fork quickly, like hitting a rock or root, landing a jump, etc.

    Since the RCT3 fork has a platform setting, it makes sense that it would also have an adjustment for it.

    You can use the Floodgate (blow-off) setting on the other forks to simulate this to a degree. On the XX forks, the Floodgate adjustment goes from dead-rigid to allowing more than an inch of travel when the fork is locked out. I've set mine 1/2 turn out and I find that on relatively smooth trails, it takes the edge off enough that I occasionally forget to unlock the fork without realizing it.

  21. #21
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    Based on my read of the Rockshox website and press reports from Sea Otter 2013, the 2014 SIDs are the ones with "Dig Valve" and "Rapid Rise". These terms are pretty buried in marketing dreck, but the key seems to be that Dig = Digressive, as in digressisve damping. Google that and you'll see it's a pretty hot property in the suspension world... instead of the damping increasing with velocity like a Physics 101 dashpot, it decreases. Theoretical result, better compliance over high-speed bumps, without a corresponding tendency to sag or wallow in turns.

    I haven't seen much commentary about this valving on the 2014s, but I don't know whether that's because they haven't been thoroughly reviewed yet, the reviewers haven't noticed it, or perhaps Rockshox' implementation is ineffectual.

    From the same sources, it appears that the digressive valving is implemented at the rebound piston end of the fork, ie the bottom end. So while the compression/blowoff hardware at the top can apparently be swapped out amongst RCT3, XX, RL, etc., it's not clear (to me at least) that the damper valving can be... although I sure hope so. Anyone been inside the 2014s enough to know?

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