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  1. #1
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    PROS vs CONS TUBELESS

    Looking for some help from those of you with experience.
    Agressive rider, 185lbs, Pac.NW, all mountain.

    Is tubeless better than good ol' tubes? When is it better, and when is it not.

  2. #2
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    jbone, this topic has been covered extensively, and there is a plethora of information on this subject within this site alone. Don't be surprised if you get less than sincere replies on your post.
    That being said, go tubeless!
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  3. #3
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    For me the advantages are no more flats from punctures.

    The disadvantage for me are weight. I run heavy UST tires for their tougher side walls & 4oz of Slime & Stan's mix per tire. I have to run this combo in my area or I'd be hiking the back after every ride.

  4. #4
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    Awesome topic. No one's ever asked before.

    I dont know why I run tubeless. The tubeless fairy just broke into my garage one night and set my bike up.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    Awesome topic. No one's ever asked before.

    I dont know why I run tubeless. The tubeless fairy just broke into my garage one night and set my bike up.
    Tubeless Fairy never comes to Canada.

    I've tried tubeless, but didn't care much for it. I never get flats while running tubes, and I run 28-30psi. I just found it PITA to mount a tire while trying not to spill sealant, and after taking off and putting back on tires couple of times, I just went back to tubes.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    Awesome topic. No one's ever asked before.

    I dont know why I run tubeless. The tubeless fairy just broke into my garage one night and set my bike up.
    I'm sure this topic has been beaten to death and beyond but some of us are new to it and I guess I'd rather view a fresh thread than dig up a tired old one.


    I've tried tubeless, but didn't care much for it. I never get flats while running tubes, and I run 28-30psi. I just found it PITA to mount a tire while trying not to spill sealant, and after taking off and putting back on tires couple of times, I just went back to tubes.
    4nbstd- if you're not being sarcastic then my experiences match yours. I know there are many advantages to tubeless, but there are a few advantages to tubed that I can see. Just trying to weigh it out.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    4nbstd- if you're not being sarcastic then my experiences match yours. I know there are many advantages to tubeless, but there are a few advantages to tubed that I can see. Just trying to weigh it out.
    Not sarcastic at all. Another factor that pushed me back to tube was that I'm 220 lb on rigid with plenty of air time, and I was constantly worried about burping, I couldn't enjoy riding as much.
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  8. #8
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    I went Tubeless long ago when the only option was the Stan's conversion strips, and have never looked back. In my opinion, the improvement in traction, especially in rocks and roots, is significant. Part of it is being able to run 25-30 psi and not worry about pinch flats, but I think the tire is more supple and conforms to the trail better at any given pressure Tubeless vs tubed, which in turn gives better control.
    No pinch flats and resistance to thorns are an added benefit. I noticed the top of this thorn barely sticking up between knobs after a ride. I had no idea when I got the puncture (sealed around the turn instantly). I left it for several weeks and ride at least 3-4 times with it in. I finally opened the tire to help get it out and couldn't believe how long it was sticking in there. Try riding with that with a tube! I pulled it out, reset the bead, inflated the tire, and the hole sealed quickly.
    I've only had to their a tube in while on the trail once in 6 years of riding Tubeless. :thumbup:

    Excuse the bad pics. Second one shows the thorn from the inside of the tire...



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  9. #9
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    Just do it

  10. #10
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    I'm running tubeless front and a tube in the rear tire. Best of both worlds!

    (What actually happened was I got a sidewall cut in the rear tire, so I stuck a tube in it, and I have just left it that way.)

    Tubeless pros:
    - Fewer flats (at least for me)
    - Can run lower pressures without pinch-flats

    Tubeless cons:
    - Some risk of 'burping' air (depends on tire/rim combo)
    - A pain, and messy, if you like to change tires often
    - Fixing a flat on the trail is messy
    - Sealant can gunk up valves, causing them to fail (happened to me)
    - Still need to carry a spare tube, and should carry a spare valve as well

  11. #11
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    My opinion.

    I switched to tubeless on my 29er this year along with standard Maxxis Ardent tires.

    Disadvantages: NONE

    Advantages: When it's wet, I can run 18-22psi and get traction. I havn't had a flat or air loss this year and I've ridden on over 100 rides.

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  12. #12
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    In 2011 I had literally one flat all year with tubes. So, I never felt the need for tubeless. Fast forward to today, I'm picking up my new tubless wheelset today. Not sure if it's bad luck or what but after one flate in the last year and a half, I've had 4 in the last month. So, I'm making the switch and see what happens.

  13. #13
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    Why use tubes?

    After a short flat infested mtb ride in the Sonoran Desert mid 2000's I went Stan's rim-strip upgrade and eventually to Flows and I can't find a reason to ever go back to a tube set-up.
    Why? I hate flats and I haven't ever had to walk back running tubeless.
    Go off trail, run over a cholla cluster, hear it slam into the shock brace and then feel it smash into your shin and hear the ppssffft, ppssffft and then the seal and you'll be happy.
    At the end of the ride, you can see a couple of cholla thorns sticking out of your tire...leave them alone and you can go riding the next day and...repeat.
    I did once run over a huge thorn and made the stupid mistake of pulling it out when my tire had low and old fluid. It still sealed and I had to add air, but I rode home.

    Ask anyone who's run tubeless for a year to show you the inside of their tire when they take it off for whatever reason.
    When I switched out my Exiwolf's for the Big Apples, there were no less than 40 thorns sticking through to the inside of the tire. Think of that happening with a tube.

    The trick is having a good tubeless rim/tire bead seal and keeping up the fluid. Not a big deal for me.

    Now I'm living in Seattle and I'm running the 622-60 Big Apples tubeless with about 35 psi and they are doing great.
    Maybe no need to run tubeless in this urban assault type of riding, but I hate tubes and I ride mostly off the beaten path.

    I keep meaning to carry a tube, but never have yet...

  14. #14
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    gotta do it...

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  15. #15
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    Tubeless is faster...because you can run lower pressures and lower pressure is definitely faster over rough surfaces. Tubless is more durable, and you will get way less flats. Tubeless offers a smoother ride, because of the lower pressure.

    If you have a good set-up made for tubeless, it will never burp. The only con for me is that if you like to switch tires frequently, it is more of a pain in the butt. Otherwise, tubeless is better in every way, and the difference is significant.

    I no longer carry an extra tube with me unless I am way in the backcountry because flats are now so rare with my tubeless set-up. I do run tough tires though with sidewalls made for tubeless that are difficult to cut.

    All that said lots of guys still like tubes and run them, and they will get on here and talk about the virtues of tubes.

  16. #16
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    I had a load of problems getting my punctures to seal tubeless until I dropped Stans sealant and made my own.

    Also I lost over 100 grams going tubeless and traction is much better at lower pressure.
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  17. #17
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    Love running tubeless. I pre-burped my rims to help seal them. Once I did that, little to no air loss after 4 months. Maine trails are full of roots and granite. Still carry tubes. Guess I am paranoid.

    Setup is Bontrager mustang OSB with Bontrager strips and IRD Fire XC Pro. Stan's goo.

    No Cons so far. I do not change tires until they are shot.

    Took a few attempts to get them setup perfectly but that was mainly due to LBS supplying wrong Stans strips and then supplying wrong Bontrager strips. I eventually ordered what I needed direct from Bontrager and all is set.

  18. #18
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    What I never understood is the low presure thing. I mean I understand it but everyone talks about how they want stiff rims, stiff frame and then you run super low presure and, to me, the back end feels all squirrely. LIke a wet noodle. If I get under 30psi it feels like my backend is fishtailing. Just a preference thing I guess.

  19. #19
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    I run lower pressure tubed than tubeless anyway.

    Go tubeless if you get lots of punctures from thorns.

    In the early 2000's there were advantages , with the latest generation high volume tires most other benefits are now redundant.

  20. #20
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    I run tubes on my 29er and regularly run between 18 and 23 psi. I'm about 185 lbs and ride in New England. I rarely flat (maybe 2 or 3 times per year). Tubes work for me. Try out tubeless if you're interested and decide what works for you.

  21. #21
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    Last year I was riding along and ran over something embedded in a mud puddle and double flatted. For whatever reason I hadn't gotten around to converting these new tires, I was immediately attacked by a swarm of mosquitos that were relentless while trying to swap tubes. Picture a cursing screaming madman running around holding a wheel, tube, tire levers, hand pump, and flailing my arms all at the same time. I swore after that I wouldn't ride again until those tires were converted. This comical scenario alone should be enough to convince you.

    On vacation last year to Myrtle Beach I brought my roadie (there are no trails in mb), I noticed at the beginning of the trip there was a sliver of metal embedded in one of my tubeless tires. I almost pulled it out, but not having the necessary tools to re-seat the beads I changed my mind and decided to gamble and see if it would hold out. Well, even after riding 300 miles on that trip it did, and when I got home and pulled it out with needlenose pliers, it sealed instantly anyway. Since I swapped tubeless on my road bike I have yet to flat, not once in two years.

    All of my serious bikes are tubeless, from the roadie to the downhill bike. Even with too low air pressure and banging the rims in hairy rock gardens, I may on rare occasion burp but never blow out. The only flats I've gotten in the recent past were from a rock tearing a big gash in the sidewall, and another tire getting a knob torn off and a big hole in the casing, I couldn't even use those tires with tubes if I wanted to.

    Yeah, it takes some effort, and some tire/rim combos can be difficult to seal, but there's only been two tires over the 10 years I've been doing it that I could never get to seat. After you've done it a couple times you get pretty good at it. In fact I just finished an hour ago converting my newest bike, the whole process took about 1.5 hours start to finish, from deflating the tubes to two airtight converted tires ready to ride. It's well worth the effort.
    Last edited by masterofnone; 09-18-2012 at 04:51 PM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny7 View Post
    What I never understood is the low presure thing. I mean I understand it but everyone talks about how they want stiff rims, stiff frame and then you run super low presure and, to me, the back end feels all squirrely. LIke a wet noodle. If I get under 30psi it feels like my backend is fishtailing. Just a preference thing I guess.
    Thank God someone finally said it! I thought I was the only one on this planet who thought running a mostly flat tire felt like walking around with a schmeer of poop in your chamois....

  23. #23
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    So what really are the benefits of running tubeless. I have never run my wheels/tire tubeless so I can't speak from personal experience. I always assumed there was a weight loss gain? I can see that with UST tires on a UST wheel where you don't need the sealant but then you lose the puncture "proof" capabilities.

    I used to push the limits of the air pressure on my HT and got a few pinch flats. Didn't take long for me to figure out that anything below 27 PSI would be risky. I also realized that one of the reasons I was wanting to run the low PSI was to smooth out my ride.

    Fast forward, I ride a FS now and am totally fine with running around 30 PSI, haven't had a single flat. Knocks on wood. Running that PSI on the the tires I am using seems to allow plenty of contact. Some tires seem to want more. I definitely don't want a squirrely ride because of low pressure.

    So what are the real advantages?

    1. I can totally see the puncture "proofness" if you ride where there are a lot of thorns etc. Rocks are the biggest tire foe in the Pisgah, so that isn't all that important to me.

    2. Any weight loss gain? Maybe with a UST tire and no sealant?

    3. Lower tire pressure. Mmmmkay, not sold. I seem to hook up just fine and rarely slip.

    What am I missing. I could totally be wrong and be missing something.

    Looking for a new wheel set and seriously considering WTB's I19s. Part for losing some weight and part for maybe losing some weight running them tubeless with no sealant. You can do that right with ust tires on ust rims?
    Last edited by mattnmtns; 09-18-2012 at 06:02 PM.

  24. #24
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    For me the increased flat prevention is the biggest reason. There is some rotational weight to lose by tossing the tube, I don't use ust tires, most are boat anchors, regular tires work just fine. My tire pressures are only slightly lower, about 5 to 7 lbs less. I have read that the tire conforms to the trail better without a tube. I guess if you think that a tube conforms to the tire like an extra layer in the carcass, stiffening up more like a downhill tire with extra plies it makes sense. Whether or not this is true or not I don't know, but I can tell you my bikes feel noticeably smoother and with better traction once I yank the tubes out.

  25. #25
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    I was a hold-out for a long time. Rode Flows with tubes. Since converting, I would have a hard time going back to tubes just based on trail feel alone. The bike just seems to handle better with tubeless. Additionally as a hardtail rider, the 25 psi increases the comfort big time.

  26. #26
    gran jefe
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    is tubeless really less likely to sustain a puncture flat than a tubed setup with sealant in the tube? i can see how tubeless with slime would be better than tubed without, but what if both had slime? thanks for your time and your patience.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill in Houston View Post
    is tubeless really less likely to sustain a puncture flat than a tubed setup with sealant in the tube? i can see how tubeless with slime would be better than tubed without, but what if both had slime? thanks for your time and your patience.
    I'd thought about that before as it's much easier to set up with tubes for me, and one obvious difference would be the weight - tube with sealant would be heavy.
    Last edited by 4nbstd; 09-19-2012 at 05:49 AM.
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  28. #28
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    Tubeless all the way. No cons, only pros! This is my first season tubeless and what a difference in traction and tire compliance. Stan's sealant, Roval wheels and S-Works Captains are the combo for me.

  29. #29
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    I just picked up my 'tubeless ready' wheels and tires, I can't wait to try running tubeless.

  30. #30
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    i filled my tire with jbweld. The trick is to fill one side with half of the mix and the other side with the other half of the mix, that way when u ride it mixes and hardens. I've already worn my tire completely down and im running solely on jbweld now. Pros: no more valve stem, no more flats, saved a whole bunch of money by switching to geico, weight advantage over using concrete, use all my leftover tubes as catapults, chicks dig jbweld, goes perfectly with my duct tape frame.

    TUBELESS >
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by BloodyRoots View Post
    i filled my tire with jbweld. The trick is to fill one side with half of the mix and the other side with the other half of the mix, that way when u ride it mixes and hardens. I've already worn my tire completely down and im running solely on jbweld now. Pros: no more valve stem, no more flats, saved a whole bunch of money by switching to geico, weight advantage over using concrete, use all my leftover tubes as catapults, chicks dig jbweld, goes perfectly with my duct tape frame.

    TUBELESS >
    I've heard that you can just fill up your tire with a can of Great Stuff foam. Just ram it in where your valve stem goes and fill 'er up. If you do, you might even get a sponsorship.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastmaster View Post
    Tubeless all the way. No cons, only pros! This is my first season tubeless and what a difference in traction and tire compliance. Stan's sealant, Roval wheels and S-Works Captains are the combo for me.
    Stan's, Roval wheels, Purgatory's in the front, Ground Control's in the back. Not one flat since I went tubeless, and lighter too since I do not need UST. The Roval's are tubeless ready.

  33. #33
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    I have a UST wheelset that doesnt require rim tape. I use a standard tire that I converted tubeless on the rear (tubed on the front). I converted the rear because of all of the pinch flats that I was getting. I lost just under 100g from the conversion but I gained a wishy washy feel in the back (I'm still riding the same pressure as tubed). Even though the rear tire feels squirmy it has tons of traction now and is hard to break loose which sucks for the turns that I use to be able to kind of drift the rear around. The squirmy feel in the rear gives the feeling that the tire is going to break loose but it never does and causes me to overdrive the front in some instances. I would convert the front but I am afraid of burping the tire and even the though the squirmy feel in the rear is liveable I am not sure if I could live with it in the front. Anyway theres a half tubeless conversion analysis for you with a non-ust tire if you were wondering....
    Killing it with close inspection.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BloodyRoots View Post
    i filled my tire with jbweld. The trick is to fill one side with half of the mix and the other side with the other half of the mix, that way when u ride it mixes and hardens. I've already worn my tire completely down and im running solely on jbweld now. Pros: no more valve stem, no more flats, saved a whole bunch of money by switching to geico, weight advantage over using concrete, use all my leftover tubes as catapults, chicks dig jbweld, goes perfectly with my duct tape frame.

    TUBELESS >


    (P.S. Everyone should own J-B Weld.)

  35. #35
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    In all seriousness, tubeless is the only way to go. Beter traction, less maintenance and better bump absorption due to less psi.
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  36. #36
    gran jefe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill in Houston View Post
    is tubeless really less likely to sustain a puncture flat than a tubed setup with sealant in the tube? i can see how tubeless with slime would be better than tubed without, but what if both had slime? thanks for your time and your patience.
    So basically the same level of flat-resistance? With maybe tubed being a little heavier?

  37. #37
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    I ride in DE/MD/PA mostly. On tubes I had a flat every few months. Once I went tubeless I have not had a flat in two years. I've removed a few thorns from my tires and I've gotten back home and found that sealant leaked out of a hole but never have I had to stop for a repair or to install a tube.
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  38. #38
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    I've pretty much forgotten what a pain flats are since switching to tubeless. I think anyone who rides in thorn puncture country should be using a tubeless set up on their tires.

    As already mentioned, your tires are also able to conform to the terrain better w/o tubes inside, allowing you to run lower pressures.

    The only real con is when it's time to change out your old, worn tires for new ones. Gotta go through the sealing process.

  39. #39
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    ive herd that there is a greater chance of rolling the tire off the wheel

  40. #40
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    um... no.

    Quote Originally Posted by mtbpimp View Post
    ive herd that there is a greater chance of rolling the tire off the wheel
    precisely why you shouldn't believe everything you hear...
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  41. #41
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    The only times I've heard or saw people roll their tires off the wheel they could be attributed to user error. Most of the time it amounts to someone going too far with the "look how low I can run the pressure" syndrome. Or bad equipment choice.
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  42. #42
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    I was told the sealant drys out and has to replaced occasionally, in some cases every 60-90 days. Is that correct?
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  43. #43
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    Out here is the desert tubeless is the only way to go. The only draw back I can see being tubless for the past 4 years is it is expensive. You should buy EXO tires because you will get side wall slashes and never want to go back to tubes, so that means buying new tires.Stonger, lighter tires cost almost double.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by J3SSEB View Post
    jbone, this topic has been covered extensively, and there is a plethora of information on this subject within this site alone. Don't be surprised if you get less than sincere replies on your post.
    That being said, go tubeless!
    Yup, and this is the wrong section for yet another thread on this topic.



    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny7 View Post
    What I never understood is the low presure thing. I mean I understand it but everyone talks about how they want stiff rims, stiff frame and then you run super low presure and, to me, the back end feels all squirrely. LIke a wet noodle. If I get under 30psi it feels like my backend is fishtailing. Just a preference thing I guess.
    I agree with this as well. I don't like the feel of a squirmy rear tire either.
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  45. #45
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    I'm just going to answer your original post because I don't give a damn about whether this has been covered before, if it's in the wrong section, or some other "rule" on this tiny chunk of internet. I'd rather you get some good info than lecture on proper forum etiquette. It's more useful to everyone and takes the same amount of time to just answer the question.

    At this point in bike technology tubeless is the way to go. But a lot depends on what kind of tubeless setup you use. While "ghetto tubeless" or "tubeless compatible" work, I have found they lose some of the benefits of true UST. I recommend a full UST setup, and at the very minimum UST wheels.

    It takes time to find a good ghetto tubeless tire/rim combination that fits and seals well. But with UST you just pick a wheel and tire and air it up with a floor pump. No compressor, no sealant (if you don't want), and no leaking. What's even more crucial, at least for me, is that I can re-seat a UST tire on the trail if I need to with my trail pump. I could never do that with my ghetto setup, so I was stuck swapping out a tube on the trail and dealing with sealant. Not that big of a deal, but still an annoyance and took away from my ride.

    I highly recommend using a UST rim, UST tire, and a cup or two of Stan's sealant. You'll go months without a flat unless you happen to slash a sidewall or get a really huge puncture like a nail. "Tubeless Compatible" tires are great, and I've had some good ones, but they tend to leak a bit of air over time and the sealant dries up faster. With UST, you don't need any sealant as it's an air-tight setup. I use 1-2 cups of Stan's sealant for puncture protection and it lasts for several months.

    It doesn't cost that much more to get a good UST wheelset as opposed to any other good wheelset, but it's hard to find a low end UST wheelset aside from on craigslist or pinkbike. It's well worth the cost to get a good UST wheelset, and I would encourage that if the budget permits. The east of mounting up a tire in the garage and changing it on the trail is totally worth it.
    "Got everything you need?"

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    " I use 1-2 cups of Stan's sealant for puncture protection and it lasts for several months. "

    So you have reseal every couple months or so. Take the tire off, clean out old and add new sealant?
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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoHeadsBrewing View Post
    At this point in bike technology tubeless is the way to go. But a lot depends on what kind of tubeless setup you use. While "ghetto tubeless" or "tubeless compatible" work, I have found they lose some of the benefits of true UST. I recommend a full UST setup, and at the very minimum UST wheels.

    It takes time to find a good ghetto tubeless tire/rim combination that fits and seals well. But with UST you just pick a wheel and tire and air it up with a floor pump. No compressor, no sealant (if you don't want), and no leaking. What's even more crucial, at least for me, is that I can re-seat a UST tire on the trail if I need to with my trail pump. I could never do that with my ghetto setup, so I was stuck swapping out a tube on the trail and dealing with sealant. Not that big of a deal, but still an annoyance and took away from my ride.

    I highly recommend using a UST rim, UST tire, and a cup or two of Stan's sealant. You'll go months without a flat unless you happen to slash a sidewall or get a really huge puncture like a nail. "Tubeless Compatible" tires are great, and I've had some good ones, but they tend to leak a bit of air over time and the sealant dries up faster. With UST, you don't need any sealant as it's an air-tight setup. I use 1-2 cups of Stan's sealant for puncture protection and it lasts for several months.

    It doesn't cost that much more to get a good UST wheelset as opposed to any other good wheelset, but it's hard to find a low end UST wheelset aside from on craigslist or pinkbike. It's well worth the cost to get a good UST wheelset, and I would encourage that if the budget permits. The east of mounting up a tire in the garage and changing it on the trail is totally worth it.
    This is the 29" forum. Please do tell where I find these fabled UST rims. There are a few 29" UST wheelsets available but most of them are fairly light race wheels and as such have narrow rims. They are not what most AM and trail riders are after. Also, there are very few 29" large volume UST tires available. If Mavic made a full on 29" version of the EX823, I'd be all over it but they don't.

    What exactly is "Tubeless Compatible"? UST rims and tires are tubeless compatible. Even when I still rode a 26" bike with Mavic XM819 rims I tended to use TLR, TNT, 2Bliss etc. tires. They are lighter than UST tires, there is a lot more choice and they work just as well. A tubeless ready tire bead is the same as a UST bead and they work just as well in terms of inflation and fitting.

    I had a lot of experience with UST systems before I started riding 29" wheeled bikes. For the past three years I've used Stan's and SUN Ringlé rims and they are as easy to work with and inflate with TLR tires as UST wheels and tires.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
    This is the 29" forum. Please do tell where I find these fabled UST rims. There are a few 29" UST wheelsets available but most of them are fairly light race wheels and as such have narrow rims. They are not what most AM and trail riders are after. Also, there are very few 29" large volume UST tires available. If Mavic made a full on 29" version of the EX823, I'd be all over it but they don't.

    What exactly is "Tubeless Compatible"? UST rims and tires are tubeless compatible. Even when I still rode a 26" bike with Mavic XM819 rims I tended to use TLR, TNT, 2Bliss etc. tires. They are lighter than UST tires, there is a lot more choice and they work just as well. A tubeless ready tire bead is the same as a UST bead and they work just as well in terms of inflation and fitting.

    I had a lot of experience with UST systems before I started riding 29" wheeled bikes. For the past three years I've used Stan's and SUN Ringlé rims and they are as easy to work with and inflate with TLR tires as UST wheels and tires.
    MT75, Easton Haven, EA90 XC, EA70 XCT...plenty of offerings out there depending on what you need and how much you want to spend. You can also build up your own set with Mavic's UST rims. Fabled? Not so much...and "race wheels"? Not sure what you mean by that because even people who aren't "racers" like to drop some change on a nice wheelset. In fact, it's one of the best places to drop money on a bike IMHO.

    Tubeless compatible wheelsets out right now are fine, but it's the ghetto tubeless or Stan's kits that offer problems and really what I was referring to. Once you find the right tire combo it fine, but getting there can be a chore. My point was that with a completely UST setup you avoid these possible problems, so why not just start there from the beginning?
    "Got everything you need?"

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by lastplace29er View Post
    " I use 1-2 cups of Stan's sealant for puncture protection and it lasts for several months. "

    So you have reseal every couple months or so. Take the tire off, clean out old and add new sealant?
    They stay sealed up, but the sealant will dry up and form into a "stan's booger" that just bounces around inside. At that point you have no puncture protection, so it's a good idea to replace the sealant. To do this, I just pop out a small section of the bead, pull out the dried up booger ball and add another scoop or two.

    If you happen to ride in an area with little or no thorns, you may not even want sealant at all. With a full UST setup you don't need it, as it will seal air tight. However, if there are chances you'll pick up something it's good peace of mind to add in some sealant.
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  50. #50
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    I am running tubless in Arizona cactus country... so far no issues, and I run a Maxxis ignitor which is thought to be a tire that is prone to punctures... I am not sure WHY tubelss tires are better for preventing flats... but they are... its not just hype...

  51. #51
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    2 years tubeless now... not 1 flat. Have witnessed 20+ flats from friends with tubes. The advantage is I guess I get to tell them 'I told you so' and the disadvantage is I then have to set them up tubeless

    One misconception I hear a lot is its a pain in the ass, I disagree. A strip of stans yellow tape and the stans goo soap up the bead and boom done. I change up tires almost every ride which takes less time than it would inserting a tube. If done right its simple and reliable.

    A way better ride, better handling, low psi, and don't have to carry any tubes and pumps/CO2

  52. #52
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    It will be on the tire/wheel/sealant combo you choose, I've been tubeless for 6 months now and never had a single issue

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoHeadsBrewing View Post
    MT75, Easton Haven, EA90 XC, EA70 XCT...plenty of offerings out there depending on what you need and how much you want to spend. You can also build up your own set with Mavic's UST rims. Fabled? Not so much...and "race wheels"? Not sure what you mean by that because even people who aren't "racers" like to drop some change on a nice wheelset. In fact, it's one of the best places to drop money on a bike IMHO.

    Tubeless compatible wheelsets out right now are fine, but it's the ghetto tubeless or Stan's kits that offer problems and really what I was referring to. Once you find the right tire combo it fine, but getting there can be a chore. My point was that with a completely UST setup you avoid these possible problems, so why not just start there from the beginning?
    The MT75 wheelset is recommended by Shimano for no more than 2.25 tires. It is 19mm. wide and has only 24 spokes. Even the Haven Carbon 29" has only 21mm. internal width and also has 24 spokes. What I mean by race wheel is that the criteria used in their manufacture is to keep them light for XC racing. They will not stand up to hard trail riding. Cost has nothing to do with it.

    Which Mavic UST 29" rims can I build my own wheels with? The "fabled" ones. As I said there are a few UST wheelsets but there are no "certified" UST 29" rims available that I can build with 32 spokes onto my favorite hubs.

    I definitely agree with you that converted tubeless systems are hit and miss. I've seen them fail once too often.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  54. #54
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    Regardless of tubeless setup I have always had a horrible time with rolling the tires off the rims, burping, and always being afraid that the tire could blow off the rim at any time...scary.

    Then I decided to try to glue the tire to the rim. Went out picked up a can of vittoria mastik, and went to town, filled the bead hook of the rim with glue blew the tire up (no goop) let it sit 24 hrs. Then I pulled out the valve core, injected some stans, and no real flats to speak of since!
    (I broke a cord in the tire once....BANG, and ended up having to cut the tire off the rim. Sweet)


    Note. I seriously did try everything. Full UST (rims/tires) Notubes rims with UST, Tubeless ready, Regular bead, Wire bead. Bontrager rims (all tires), many generations of velocity rims (all tires)


    Finally have the magic setup, I'm stoked. Doesn't seem to matter what kind of tubeless rim I'm using, I can use any tire too! (right now I like the wtb i13, Going to get some enve ust rims soon)

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    It's a fad

    I have a set of Stan flow ex rims and run 28-32 psi and have experience at least four flats ranging from thorn punctures to sidewall cuts. My little dog even took a cheap shot at my front tire which caused a leak which the Stan's could not seal. I've been running maxxis tires and have been having better luck with spesh 2bliss tires.

    Unless your having issues with tube set up and are not a total weight weenie I would stick with a tube set up.

  56. #56
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    I run tubeless on the bike I use on thorn infested trails. But, on the Rockies trails I'm considering tubes again. I cut my sidewall and it was a slippery mess trying to put a tube in it. If I had a tube in there and cut a sidewall I could boot it and ride out. Walking sucks.
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  57. #57
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    I hear that Hutchinson offers an urban tire with a dense foam insert.

    I have to think that all of the bike tire companies are gonna jump on this band wagon.

    We may see the end of all flat tires forever in the not too distant future.

  58. #58
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    This might help you make a decision: Stans No Tubes - YouTube
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  59. #59
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    Sorry: fixed the link.
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfo922 View Post
    It's a fad
    yup. just like 29ers...
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  61. #61
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    The main drawback with tubeless is it is mandatory to take a tube if reparation is needeed ! Even with Stan no tube... in summer without bag just t-shirt it's boring...

  62. #62
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    michalss makes no sense brow, even if you have a tube at least you need a repair kit.

    Plus having a tube under the seat is not a problem

  63. #63
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    I like tubeless because it's easier.

    Took about 20 seconds to mount my Ikons on arches rims--no fiddling with a tube is nice.

    Not to mention I road all summer without fixing a flat on the trail, which is the first time since I started biking decades ago.

  64. #64
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    Last year, 6 flats with tubes. This year, 0 flats with tubeless. Same rider, same conditions, same trails, pressure slightly lower with tubeless. 255lbs rider.

    I'm a convert. Never going back.

  65. #65
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    Still amazed at the amount of flats with tubes I'm reading here. I can count on one hand the number of flats I've had in the last 15 years here in SoCal and a few years in Tucson, plenty of goat heads and cactus around. Only 2 of those were outright flats from a pinch(my bad from not watching psi), the rest were slow leaks that I completed the ride with, tire went flat later.

    OTOH I don't run weight weenie tubes or tires and no slime. I don't even carry a tube patch kit or pump anymore unless it's a really long ride in an out of the way place.

    Agree with others on low pressure (I'm 220#), tires get progressively squirrely under 30# and at 20# I likely would get pinch flats(those above) especially on my rigid SS.

  66. #66
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    do it

  67. #67
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    1 season of racing and 1900km of single track XC - no flats, 1 burp during a race, no other issues on thin Racing Ralph / Rocket Ron evo's.

    Less weight + more reliability + more traction.

  68. #68
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    I've had 4 flats in the past 10 days. Hadn't had a flat in the previous 3 months. It's time to go tubeless.
    Nathan

  69. #69
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    1500 miles in the last year on tubes. A lot of that on pretty rocky trails. No flats and I run 24-26 psi f/r. I see no reason for me to go tubeless.
    Last edited by dvn; 09-26-2012 at 07:02 PM.

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    I recently picked a pair of Stan's Flows to run tubeless and am not looking back! Very satisfied so far.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by dvn View Post
    1500 miles in the last year on tubes. A lot of that on pretty rocky trails. No flats and I run 24-26 psi f/r. I see no reason for me to go tubeless.
    What type of tube and tires?

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by broadwayline View Post
    What type of tube and tires?
    Specialized Captain Control 2.2 rear and Purgatory 2.2 front with stock Specialized tubes.

  73. #73
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    I am still on tubes but considering tubless after my last flat. My concern or issue is the mess involved with having to put a tube if I cut a sidewall. But is that even a realistic concern? How big does the hole have to be before the tubless goo stops working? I watched the video and it shows a 1/4 inch awl going through the tire and it sealed right up. WHat is the tipping point before Stans stops working?

  74. #74
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    My concern or issue is the mess involved with having to put a tube if I cut a sidewall. But is that even a realistic concern?
    I've never found it a problem, but I've only had to put in a tube once, and that was because I was using a non-tubless type tire and it didn't want to seal up on the trail. If you're careful, you can keep all the sealant inside the tire and just slip the tube in...no need to get it everywhere.

    How big does the hole have to be before the tubless goo stops working?
    It depends on the type of puncture. When typical round hole punctures enter, then exit the tire, it's not like there is rubber missing. The tire rubber just folds back in place after the object is removed, and the Stan's granules fill in the gap. The granules are an important part of how it seals up tires, so shake up the bottle of Stan's to get some bigger sized granules into the tire.
    "Got everything you need?"

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by jarwes View Post
    My concern or issue is the mess involved with having to put a tube if I cut a sidewall. But is that even a realistic concern? How big does the hole have to be before the tubless goo stops working? I watched the video and it shows a 1/4 inch awl going through the tire and it sealed right up. WHat is the tipping point before Stans stops working?
    I'd like to add that I was also concerned about the "mess" from liquid latex before I ever used it. I had a preconception that it would stick to everything. I used to use UST rims and tires on my 26" bike and got frustrated with them always loosing pressure. I finally decided to give a scoop of Stan's in each wheel a try which solved the problem. I also learnt that the stuff is water based and simply washes away with water. It really isn't that messy. In fact the sealant is not sticky at all. As has already been said, the sealant is really solid particulate latex in a water based liquid.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  76. #76
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    So I converted six months ago. Liked the ability to ride with lower air pressure. Everything was great until I hung the bike up for three weeks. Grabbed it last weekend and found the rear flat. No holes or foreign objects in the tire. The tire itself had become unsealed. What I found was dried up Stan's. so I added another cup or so and then went to the pump. But the pump couldn't force enough air in to get the tire to seal. Went to a neighbors with a compressor and still couldn't get the seal. Had to ride so thru in the tube. Now what? Do I have to clean the dried up Stan's off of the tire and rim for a good seal? My riding partner had a similar experience. I'm no wrench-head but still pretty handy but can not seem to solve this problem.

    Help!


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  77. #77
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    I did a ghetto tubeless setup with RRs worked great for a several months. I didn't see any big gains in traction as I'm able to run low pressures with or without the tubes. But a few months ago I came down hard on the front wheel and blew the whole bead off the rim. Not a burp but the bead came completely unseated. Scared the crap out of me. Fortunately I got the bike stopped without incident. I had a tube with me and rode out. But after that I couldn't trust it with those wheels and tires and went back to tubes.

    I have some Flow EXs on the way, and will probably try tubeless with them. The flat protection is nice.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADP-EDH View Post
    So I converted six months ago. Liked the ability to ride with lower air pressure. Everything was great until I hung the bike up for three weeks. Grabbed it last weekend and found the rear flat. No holes or foreign objects in the tire. The tire itself had become unsealed. What I found was dried up Stan's. so I added another cup or so and then went to the pump. But the pump couldn't force enough air in to get the tire to seal. Went to a neighbors with a compressor and still couldn't get the seal. Had to ride so thru in the tube. Now what? Do I have to clean the dried up Stan's off of the tire and rim for a good seal? My riding partner had a similar experience. I'm no wrench-head but still pretty handy but can not seem to solve this problem.

    Help!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    I've only had one tire/rim combo that I could not get to seal, and it was similar to what you describe. Got it sealed up initially with a compressor, as a normal floor pump would not work. A couple weeks later I burped it and couldn't get it to seal on the trail, so threw a tube in. Got it back home, cleaned it all up, but couldn't get it to seal, even WITH the air compressor. That's the point I decided to bail on tubeless until I had the money to get a UST wheelset and tubeless compatible tires. I think at least in my case, it was just that the tire itself was not a good match for the rim, or the other way around. It could have also been stretched to the point where it couldn't make a good seal. Either way, totall pain in the a$$.

    Once I went proper tubeless, I had no problems seating and sealing or re-sealing with a floor pump or even my trail pump. That's why I totally recommend going full UST, or at least "tubeless compatible". In my experience, and a couple of my riding buddies', there were struggles with ghetto tubeless setups and Stan's strips, but those went away after seeking out a proper tubeless setup. It's a chunk of change to lay out for sure, but totally worth it. Best money I ever spent besides a really nice fork.
    "Got everything you need?"

  79. #79
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    Is it l possible to keep the same preventive fluid into tire even if the bike don't move for sevral months ? Years ?

    Stan notube is it economical and easy to use in this way ?

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by michalss View Post
    Is it l possible to keep the same preventive fluid into tire even if the bike don't move for sevral months ? Years ?

    Stan notube is it economical and easy to use in this way ?
    It dries up after a few months and must be replenished via the use a Stan's injection kit.

  81. #81
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    Thanks for your reply ambassadorhawg.

    But is it also the same case if i run at least 40 km each week and never let my bike at the same place more than one week ?

    If the fluid is dry how could you detect it (sound...) ?

  82. #82
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    Yes, technically it is drying up from the moment you place it into the tire. In severe cases, it will dry up into a glob and you can hear it knocking around inside the tire. Don't let it get to that point.

  83. #83
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    Thanks for your help guy !

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    Quote Originally Posted by MtbAZ44 View Post
    I am running tubless in Arizona cactus country... so far no issues, and I run a Maxxis ignitor which is thought to be a tire that is prone to punctures... I am not sure WHY tubelss tires are better for preventing flats... but they are... its not just hype...
    Im running tubes and i have the exact opposite, seems like I am magnet for thorns, mesquite, palo verde tree and cactus to be exact. I hate removing the tube and trying to find the hole, with the new 29er the tires are tougher to get off than the 26er's are, difference was I have to use tire levers now I encounter thorns on the ride, but pick them up during my practice sessions at home.

    I'm having the LBS mount a tire for me on the wheel since I don't feel like doing it myself, they supply the tape and labor for $10- tape alone will cost me more than that locally. Im sure I will get flak for only doing the front wheel and not the back, but I don't funds for both and the front wheel usually picks up the thorns first clearing a path for the rear. least that's they way I am thinking.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlickWilly8019 View Post
    Im running tubes and i have the exact opposite, seems like I am magnet for thorns, mesquite, palo verde tree and cactus to be exact. I hate removing the tube and trying to find the hole, with the new 29er the tires are tougher to get off than the 26er's are, difference was I have to use tire levers now I encounter thorns on the ride, but pick them up during my practice sessions at home.

    I'm having the LBS mount a tire for me on the wheel since I don't feel like doing it myself, they supply the tape and labor for $10- tape alone will cost me more than that locally. Im sure I will get flak for only doing the front wheel and not the back, but I don't funds for both and the front wheel usually picks up the thorns first clearing a path for the rear. least that's they way I am thinking.
    You don't have the funds for $10 a wheel?

  86. #86
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    Personally, I wouldn't trust anyone but me to tape a rim. It's not rocket science, but cleanliness and taking your time assures you won't have any leaks from the tape lifting or shifting. My front wheel is nearing 3 years with the same tape.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jarwes View Post
    I am still on tubes but considering tubless after my last flat. My concern or issue is the mess involved with having to put a tube if I cut a sidewall. But is that even a realistic concern? How big does the hole have to be before the tubless goo stops working? I watched the video and it shows a 1/4 inch awl going through the tire and it sealed right up. WHat is the tipping point before Stans stops working?
    You know, I've seen those videos too, but my real-world experience has been a little less impressive. In the last 2-3 months I've had four different incidents where I had to put tubes into my tires on the trail. Two of them were substantial sidewall cuts - no way that the sealant could have helped there. But two other time I had punctures straight through the main tread of the tire. These were not large holes by any means, and there was *plenty* of fresh sealant in the tire and the sealant still couldn't close up the hole. Granted: 1) I have no idea how many other times the sealant has worked without me even knowing it and 2) I still continue to ride tubeless because I find it worth the hassle. That said, it is no fun having to put a tube in on the trail and the sealant doesn't work nearly as well as I had hoped.

    FWIW: I'm seriously thinking about buying a heavy-duty needle/thread to help the sealant a little bit. It probably wouldn't take any longer to sew up a hole than it would to throw a tube in. It would make for an interesting experiment...

  88. #88
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    Please do not crucify me, but I am new to all of this as I am a road bike guy just getting started at this mtn bike stuff! I am getting ready to mount a set of Schwalbe Hans Dampf's Evoulution tubeless ready tires using the Stans kit to my stock Giant wheels. Will I have any problems using these tires on non UST wheels, I have a set of Maxxis Cross Mark tires non tubeless ready with the Stans and have had no problems except that I tore the sidewall out of the rear. (Why I am getting new tires). Thanks in advance for any help with this.

  89. #89
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    On tubes, how many times have you flatted on a puncture? How many times have you flatted on a cut sidewall? Ever?

    As we speak there are cactus stickers stuck deep in / on my tires .... And also full air in my tires. All good.

    I switched to tubeless a year ago and would never go back to tubes!

  90. #90
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    I have a few wheels now,, some set up tubeless and some with tubes.
    The main negative for tubeless (as others have mentioned) is wheel / tire fit and some tires will not mount without a compressor and may still require quite a bit of massaging to seal.

    Where I want to swap out tires for a different trail, it's still much quicker with tubes

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech420 View Post
    You don't have the funds for $10 a wheel?
    I made a mistake, I'll admit that. Incredibly stupid...for me to take it the LBS.

    I found another bike shop closer to me and they had a Stans Rim strip (among other cool stuff) they were pretty helpful told me that it would do the job I was looking for. I came home, got on Stans Notubes website and watched the video, needless to say it was easier than I thought tire is holding air (bontrager AT850 29er rim) and has yet to burst and it works fine.
    Last edited by SlickWilly8019; 10-09-2012 at 06:29 PM.

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