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  1. #1
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    Odd tire info request

    Ok there is a point to this, its not a joke or trolling.

    Need a set of 29er tires that aren't killer rolling resitance but are HEAVY.

    Yes I said heavy.

    Now the reason behind this.

    I have been riding 1.9 karmas mostly since spring. I decided to try 2.2s for more volume (thus lower pressure and not quite as rough ride on my ht). The weight/size increase slowed me down and distance between breathers was decreased.

    But then cause I didn't want to wear out new tires on pavment riding (rain kept closing trails, but loosing weight so had to keep riding) so put 1.9s back on.

    Last weekend I hit the trails on the 1.9s cause was last minute decision. My avg speed increased by .5mph, and i was able to ride twice as long between breathers. Hell could climb more and pedal hard before even breathing really heavy. And this is over 3-4 weeks of riding 2.2s only 3-4 days a week.

    So now I want to ride with good heavy tires for a month then see how I perform on my 2.2 karmas. Didn't know how much training I could gain from a minor increase in tire weight and resistance so wanna actually add it to my training.

    So what's out there (wire bead beng a given) thats cheap and heavy but not horrible (but not good/fast) rolling resistance. Don't care about trail performance at my skill and speed on heavy tires as long as they have knobs it'll be plenty good enough.

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  2. #2
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    You could always add thorn proof tubes, or Mr. Tuffy liners if you want more rotational weight. If you are after a greater training stimulus, then I would simply ride at a greater intensity (perceived exertion, heart rate, power output...) There is a reason that skinny guys can get faster training on sub 20 pound hardtails.

  3. #3
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    Re: Odd tire info request

    Well part of it is I want cheap tires I can not care about riding pavement, something I can leave on to just ride for whatever for the next month. Not training for anything specific just loosing worthy and getting better.

    I thought about simply adding weight as u suggested, I know wire bead karmas are $20 each and then get the strips and maybe even get some slime tubes. Was just hoping there was something retardedly heavy as hard to find cheap tires where weight is posted.

    And the training part ur refering to I do but lately I haven't had the free time for longer rides so wanted to make the most of what time I do have.

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  4. #4
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    Look at wire bead CST tires. I think I bought a pair of caballaros (sp?) from universal cycles for $30. I bought them specifically for riding on paved trails so I wouldn't be wearing out lighter/more expensive trail tires. It sounds like they may be what you're looking for, 2.25" tires that are a hard compound so they won't wear out, the roll relatively well, but not excellent, and they are nothing if not heavy.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Ok there is a point to this, its not a joke or trolling.

    Need a set of 29er tires that aren't killer rolling resitance but are HEAVY.

    Yes I said heavy.

    Now the reason behind this.

    I have been riding 1.9 karmas mostly since spring. I decided to try 2.2s for more volume (thus lower pressure and not quite as rough ride on my ht). The weight/size increase slowed me down and distance between breathers was decreased.

    But then cause I didn't want to wear out new tires on pavment riding (rain kept closing trails, but loosing weight so had to keep riding) so put 1.9s back on.

    Last weekend I hit the trails on the 1.9s cause was last minute decision. My avg speed increased by .5mph, and i was able to ride twice as long between breathers. Hell could climb more and pedal hard before even breathing really heavy. And this is over 3-4 weeks of riding 2.2s only 3-4 days a week.

    So now I want to ride with good heavy tires for a month then see how I perform on my 2.2 karmas. Didn't know how much training I could gain from a minor increase in tire weight and resistance so wanna actually add it to my training.

    So what's out there (wire bead beng a given) thats cheap and heavy but not horrible (but not good/fast) rolling resistance. Don't care about trail performance at my skill and speed on heavy tires as long as they have knobs it'll be plenty good enough.

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    No matter what tire, your overall power/weight ratio + the amount of watts you pyscially can produce and sustain with your heart/lungs/genetics/training is what the key will be.

    Although riding on a "heavier tire" may seem like a way to improve with your training, you will simply be in a different gear producing the same amount of watts that you always do. So if your FTP is 287 with lighter tires, it will still be 287 with heavier tires - you'll just be going slower. if you were on lighter tires producing the amount of watts you are capable of sustaining, you will simply be in a different gear to match the weight difference/rolling resistance difference of the tires.

    Don't confuse the quicker speed being caused by any "training" benefit that came from running a heavier tire, heavier bike, Camelbak pack or whatever. The only analogy that comes to mind is if you drive the ball down the fairway against the wind 220 yards, and then drive the ball down the fairway 280 yards with the wind - nothing has changed in your swing dynamics. The wind (or in this case the tire choice) simply altered how far/fast the ball traveled. You have not suddenly gained 60 yards off the tee by practicing hitting balls against the wind. You are still producing the same swing speed in both directions (against the wind and with the wind). Unless you are lacking for training as it is, you will not be gaining wattage by running larger tires. You will still produce the same amount of maximum wattage you are capable of doing with a lighter tire.

    If you want some lighter and larger volume 29"er fast tires with better rolling resistance than the Karmas, look into the Specialized Renegade 2.3's, or the Ikon 2.35's. I wouldn't use either on pavement (road bike is best for that).
    The 14 warmest years have all occurred in the 16 years since 1997.

  6. #6
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    Re: Odd tire info request

    Thnx for that info.

    And ya i do lack on training, this is my first full season and I'm a clyde on top of it.

    So if i understand u correctly, my tires make minimal difference. It's simply training that's making the difference and increasing my speed, power and endurance.

    I know a road bike is better for pavement but lack the funds to buy a second bike atm so my 29er is what I use for everything. With baby on the way, switching jobs and so on a second bike probably won't be possible till spring.

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  7. #7
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    I think you should go ahead with your plan and see how it works.
    Wire bead tires are usually heavy and cheap.
    REI lists a $35 Continental Trail King 2.4 at 1210g. 2.42lbs.

  8. #8
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    wouldnt a slow tire basically be the equivalent of a heavy tire? either way you have to put more power to the pedals. for a cheap beastly tire id get a wire bead nev. heavy and slow. double the workout.

  9. #9
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    Re: Odd tire info request

    Ya I thought about the reference to golf and what was explained, actually so far from what any fitness info or trainer teaches. Heavier slower rolling tires increase resistance. If I ride heavy slow tires and work to get to same sustained avg mph, it will increase my max sustainable power (watts as he put it) and when I switch back to light faster tires ill be able to maintain higher gearing and ride for longer between breathers.

    Nev's on wire bead outta be interesting lol. For the moment I'm adding sealant to my tubes till I get paid from new job then ill order up some tires and give this a go.

    Right now training goal is avg 7.5-8 mph for 8-10 mile trail ride/ 14-15mph paved 12miles (plenty of hill climbing as I live on top of a series of hills). Current is 13.5 paved, just broke 7mph for 7.5 miles on trails.


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  10. #10
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    You could get the same training effect by just trying to go faster with the tires you have.
    Same speed with heavier tires = faster speed with lighter tires = same energy output.

  11. #11
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    Get a fatbike.
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  12. #12
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    Ankle weights?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Ya I thought about the reference to golf and what was explained, actually so far from what any fitness info or trainer teaches. Heavier slower rolling tires increase resistance. If I ride heavy slow tires and work to get to same sustained avg mph, it will increase my max sustainable power (watts as he put it) and when I switch back to light faster tires ill be able to maintain higher gearing and ride for longer between breathers.
    That is, if your max sustainable power (FTP) has room for improvement (if you are not at or near your physiological peak). As Thor29 mentions - you could easily do that by just running the tires you already have. All you have to do is shift the gears.

    There is always a trade off with rolling resistance, tire volume, tire tread, power, etc... . The other issue is, when going from a tire with larger knobs and suppleness for traction that one needs on their specific trails for premium handling - will you be able to actually go faster when switching to a lighter tire with better rolling resistance, yet perhaps not as good of traction? Increasing one's handling skills at a higher speed with an XC race type tire is not always a given that one will be able to go faster if handling suffers enough that maintaining the higher speed cannot be sustained.

    You'll probably see the biggest gains in terms of speed and sustaining power coming by getting down out of the Clyde status - sheerly in terms of power to weight ratio as this chart suggests.
    The 14 warmest years have all occurred in the 16 years since 1997.

  14. #14
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    Adjust your brake pads to drag slightly. My favorite is to ride without sleep for a couple of days. Mental awareness that you feel faster. Or simply ride the trail in a very easy gear, then re-ride at normal speed. Same feeling.

  15. #15
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    Re: Odd tire info request

    Ok as requested, update time:

    When i posted this thread, avg speed on trail was about 6.3 on my 2.2s, 6.5 on my 1.9s

    Next ride I was on my 1.9s (with non sealant tubes) and hit 7mph avg.

    This last ride i put m 2.2s on and hit 7.3mph avg and was an off day for me cause was coughing crap up every few minutes from all the dust from work the previous week.

    So, IT'S WORKING. Partially becuase being a clyde I feel more confident taking corners faster on my 2.2s and more importantly I'm getting stronger.
    And this is after adding in a 1.8mile offshoot thats much more difficult than I'm skilled/trained for. Thought I was going o have to bust out the cell phone, but adrenaline kicked in, walked stuff I couldn't handle riding and once I got close to the normal trails again just hauled ass back to trail head.

    All in all, increased wheel weight is helping a lot and allowed me to go faster and further with results showing in less time (less time spent riding) than just riding my as off for hours on normal set up.

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