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Thread: Mavic sucks

  1. #1
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    Mavic sucks

    I have to rant here on how crappy mavic crossmax st wheels suck from day one they creaked and i have sent them back twice and the 2nd time they came back they were worse then when i sent them back! there customer SUCKS DO NOT BUY MAVIC PRODUCTS!!!!!

  2. #2
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    That's a little harsh. I've had pretty good experiences overall with Mavic in the ~15 years I've been selling, riding and dealing with them. Sure they have had a few issues over the years but they've always done an adequate job of dealing with them.

  3. #3
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    I dig my Crossmax...


  4. #4
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    Best RIMS in the business. But everything else, from spokes to hubs to headsets...they never seem to get quite right...
    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

    And then we eat them."

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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Best RIMS in the business. But everything else, from spokes to hubs to headsets...they never seem to get quite right...
    I think the 2013 hubs are really good.

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    Hey Guys,
    I've been running Mavic wheels for over a decade and I've found them to be some of the most reliable wheels around. I started doing Community Management for them this year so I'm around to answer any questions you might have. Feel free to DM me or post them up here. Napa, I read your comment about creaky wheels and it's a really simple fix. The hub/spoke interface on the wheel wheel can dry out and since both components are aluminum they can creak. A drop of mineral oil right where the spoke heads sit on the rear hub will fix it, just be careful not to use too much and avoid your rotors. Hope that info helps and allows you to enjoy your wheels a little more.

    Jeff

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    I don't want to trash Mavic, some of the stuff they do is really nicely engineered and innovative. But in my somewhat limited experience Mavic wheels are pretty hard to work with. Many models feature proprietary parts that cost a ton of money. The nipples tend to seize and make the wheels very hard to true. I've worked on two pairs of these wheels and even the very experienced wheel builder at the LBS can't loosen the nipples.

    the road wheels just as proprietary and yet somehow Ksyriums are standard on almost every bike.

  8. #8
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    I really liked the Mavic wheels I have used.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Best RIMS in the business. But everything else, from spokes to hubs to headsets...they never seem to get quite right...
    Very decent rims. Can't say the same for their hubs however

    Contact with HQ regarding their 650b AND 29er rim offerings for 2014 was met with little enthusiasm. Hopefully they will embark on rim production to include wider, welded not pinned models that can accommodate up to 36H hubs

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    I've had seized nipples on just about every wheel Iv'e owned, not just a Mavic issue.

    Also I have a set of STs I've been riding for 2 years and all I've done to them is lube the freeheub, which I found to be quite easy.

  11. #11
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    I bought a low-spec Titus Motolite six years ago with the thought that I would replace the low-end stuff as it broke. That is how it has worked out, except, that the only parts I haven't replaced have been the two that I viewed as most likely. Avid Juicy three brakes and Mavic Crossrides. I have beaten the crap out of them (I weigh 230 and used to be much heavier and ride in Utah's Wasatch, Moab and St. George). Never trued, hubs serviced once. I've been impressed.

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    Send them to me for proper disposal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailey44 View Post
    I think the 2013 hubs are really good.
    How many yrs did it take them to get it right?
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by threebikes View Post
    Send them to me for proper disposal.
    You are not a certified metal head so you can't dispose of metal properly. I will have to take care of them myself. The sacrifices I make for the people on this board are astounding.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  15. #15
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    I liked their rims, but they sat on their hands and stopped developing new UST rims. The 819 and 823 have been unchanged since 2007 since I started back mtb. A lighter 823 would have had me stay with Mavic instead of building my new wheelset with WTB I23 rims.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    How many yrs did it take them to get it right?
    I don't know, I have always used CK laced to Stan's until 2013...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by napa View Post
    I have to rant here on how crappy mavic crossmax st wheels suck from day one they creaked and i have sent them back twice and the 2nd time they came back they were worse then when i sent them back! there customer SUCKS DO NOT BUY MAVIC PRODUCTS!!!!!
    So, quit your whining and just sell them. You know they suck (in your opinion) so why are you hanging on to them?

    There are folks lining up for Mavic system wheels like yours. I'll bet you could sell them and take the cash and buy a decent solid traditional wheelset without too much hassle.

    Personally, I shy away from any 'system' wheelsets. My issue is, anything goes wrong with them and you're dealing with your LBS, the manufacturer, shipping and a whole slew of headaches that would be avoided with a good quality traditional wheelset. Me, I just wanna ride. If I pop a spoke, I can just drive 2 miles down my hill to my local shop (a very not bike friendly drive, or I would just ride another bike... plus, I'm down there all the time getting groceries, picking up kids, etc.), spend $3 and replace it myself that night.

  18. #18
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    The only Mavic product I have is shoes and they're decent but will probably get something better when it's time to replace.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alias530 View Post
    The only Mavic product I have is shoes and they're decent but will probably get something better when it's time to replace.
    Don't know about the shoes, but love Mavic socks.

    Mavic Socks!

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    Hey guys, I want to start a constructive dialog regarding the common gripe I hear about "proprietary parts" on wheels. I've been a Mavic athlete for close to 10 years so I'm very familiar with the products and I answer a lot of questions on forums on their behalf when I feel like I can add something to the conversation. I'm just trying to understand the pushback I read about sometimes regarding the system approach to bike components, particularly wheels. Most manufacturers that have the resources are pushing towards a complete wheel system these days because when all the parts are designed to work together you can achieve some low weights and consistent ride characteristics. I've been using Mavic wheels for over decade now on all my bikes, in all different types of applications and I've never had an issue where my downtime was a result of a part that I couldn't find a replacement for. I think the idea of building wheels as light or as strong as some of the popular systems using off the shelf parts seems idealistic but it's just not realistic. I tour around to a lot of bike shops and double butted spokes, aluminum nipples, rims strips and similar stuff is just as difficult to find in my experience as a particular wheel manufacturers part. What's your opinion or experience?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    and double butted spokes, aluminum nipples, rims strips and similar stuff is just as difficult to find in my experience as a particular wheel manufacturers part. What's your opinion or experience?
    My opinion is that you're a paid shill that's incapable of differentiating fact from fiction.

    As such your opinion will not be trusted WRT wheel stuffs.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    My opinion is that you're a paid shill that's incapable of differentiating fact from fiction.

    As such your opinion will not be trusted WRT wheel stuffs.
    Kettle meet Black

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    Hey guys, I want to start a constructive dialog regarding the common gripe I hear about "proprietary parts" on wheels. I've been a Mavic athlete for close to 10 years so I'm very familiar with the products and I answer a lot of questions on forums on their behalf when I feel like I can add something to the conversation. I'm just trying to understand the pushback I read about sometimes regarding the system approach to bike components, particularly wheels. Most manufacturers that have the resources are pushing towards a complete wheel system these days because when all the parts are designed to work together you can achieve some low weights and consistent ride characteristics. I've been using Mavic wheels for over decade now on all my bikes, in all different types of applications and I've never had an issue where my downtime was a result of a part that I couldn't find a replacement for. I think the idea of building wheels as light or as strong as some of the popular systems using off the shelf parts seems idealistic but it's just not realistic. I tour around to a lot of bike shops and double butted spokes, aluminum nipples, rims strips and similar stuff is just as difficult to find in my experience as a particular wheel manufacturers part. What's your opinion or experience?
    14-15-14 DB J spokes are easily sourced here, Mavic spokes , not so much. I really don't get the low count , high tension thing for MTB either? Like we need aero for 8-20mph?

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    The reality is that products like the Crossmax as light and well engineered as they are, are not locally serviceable. The parts are not easy to find and they are extremely costly. On the Crossmaxes there is not one component that is not proprietary. I may be a bit of a curmudgeon when it comes to wheel building and repair. But when the nipples seize on these things and you can't even true them without fear of expensive damage, that's a problem for a non-sponsored rider who doesn't have extra wheels sitting around.

    I don't want to travel to ride in some distant location, bend a rim and lose the use of my bike as no local shop can source parts.

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    I have a set of Crossmax SX, first generation. Got about two years on to them before they needed attention. Getting parts such as the Zycral spokes and freehubs have been a pain in Canada meaning downtime waiting for parts. I bought spares when stuff broke to avoid downtime. I understand that Salomon Canada will be handling distribution directly next year though so hopefully the problem goes away.

    I will say that it would be nice if Mavic made their UST tubeless rims wider for all mountain wheels. I find the 21mm wide ones are too prone to burping for my liking.

    Jeff - fully realized you are sponsored by Mavic - I think you made that pretty clear in your first post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeZee View Post
    Kettle meet Black
    No, being sponsored is NOT the same as being a professional.

    While some may dislike opinions from a reputable source, I find MC refreshing on a forum filled by strong Type-A egotists.
    Try finding parts for ANY proprietary wheel at your local LBS, let alone while at a destination, or on trail.
    Proprietary parts eliminate self-sufficiency (unless the rider orders spare parts).
    No thanks, I'll stick to db 2.0 J-bends that most LBS', and any remote biker should be packing.
    IME fewer spokes ~ higher tensions are not durable long-lasting MTB wheels.

    JL, enjoy the free ride (sponsored) just expect to catch some shiite for posting unproven / biased views.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    Hey guys, I want to start a constructive dialog regarding the common gripe I hear about "proprietary parts" on wheels. I've been a Mavic athlete for close to 10 years so I'm very familiar with the products and I answer a lot of questions on forums on their behalf when I feel like I can add something to the conversation. I'm just trying to understand the pushback I read about sometimes regarding the system approach to bike components, particularly wheels. Most manufacturers that have the resources are pushing towards a complete wheel system these days because when all the parts are designed to work together you can achieve some low weights and consistent ride characteristics. I've been using Mavic wheels for over decade now on all my bikes, in all different types of applications and I've never had an issue where my downtime was a result of a part that I couldn't find a replacement for. I think the idea of building wheels as light or as strong as some of the popular systems using off the shelf parts seems idealistic but it's just not realistic. I tour around to a lot of bike shops and double butted spokes, aluminum nipples, rims strips and similar stuff is just as difficult to find in my experience as a particular wheel manufacturers part. What's your opinion or experience?
    I like many of their rims. They have generally been of high quality and among the easiest (if not the outright easiest) to build with, and I can buy them with confidence. I have only had one fail during (**otherwise) normal use, and it was used **outside of their design parameters, which was absolutely my fault, not theirs. And in this case, the information I should have paid attention to was right there on the rim's decal. But, like I said, I like their rims when used as intended.

    I have a saying that applies across the board in life: "Fancy things come with fancy problems." Sourcing parts (I'm talking primarily about spokes and nipples in this case) for fancy wheelsets with expensive proprietary parts can be an ordeal that takes longer than it would with more commonly used parts.

    My anecdotal experience: Proprietary (yes, Mavic) wheels: "Umm. . . . We'll have to send that in to xxx. We typically do our outbound shipping on Tuesdays, but we do it every Tuesday if we have something to ship out. Today is Wednesday, so your wheel will be shipped to xxx next Tuesday." This happens with things like forks and shocks too, but adding wheelsets to that list when there are other options available should be considered when purchasing a wheelset.

    Seen this happen enough times that it has me gun shy about proprietary parts on wheelsets unless I have a serviceable wheelset warming up in the bullpen and ready for action should there be an issue.

    Standard 14/15/14 butted spokes are not terribly difficult to source locally, and if I just wanted to wait a few days, I could have them shipped to my doorstep. If I have some of the more exotic stuff (bladed, less common butting profiles, straight pull, etc) it would be a longer wait from a local shop (and some of them only order once or twice a week too), or I would have to order it myself, but it would only be a one way shipping process instead of going there and back.

    Straight vanilla is not as exciting as exotic unobtanium, and it may weigh a little more, but it has it's good points. I'm not a spindly guy. 'Substantial clyde' would be a better descriptor, so I may need to be a little more discriminating than others when it comes to wheelsets holding up.

    I don't understand why they have been so slow to embrace the aftermarket 29er rim market with more options than they have. I think they have missed out on a segment that would have been profitable for them. I know Europe was behind the curve, but somehow several others found reason to make them and establish themselves as standards. I think being late to the market with the 29" XM 819 and 29" EN 821 has hurt their chances of them becoming the standards they could have become in the large hoop segment. Glad to see they finally made it to the party though. It'll be interesting to see if they catch on.

    Since we're talking about all things Mavic here, I'm not in love with the Delrin bushing on some of their freehub bodies. It needs regular cleaning and lubrication, and I would advise keeping one on hand as a spare in case you let it go too long. At least it is not terribly difficult to perform the service (or replace the freehub body) and it can be done by the home mechanic if desired.

    And finally, I find it ponderous that they make it so difficult to find the ERD of the rims they sell so readily. Put a table on your website that is easily found. It'll be OK.

    So, I wouldn't say they suck, but I have heard and seen issues that could have been handled differently, which would give more confidence to the consumer when paying good money for their wheelsets. Wheelsets are made to be ridden, and for that kind of money, they should be able to be ridden hard. If there are limits to their intended use, or to the rider's size, make it known. If they want to be the 'go-to' company for mountain bike wheelsets, then I would advocate a somewhat generous warranty policy. When word gets out that a company is on the stingy side, it affects their reputation negatively. OTOH, when a company is known to generally go a above and beyond, I think it is more favorable for them overall (the volume of sales will offset what they lose on warranties, and they will enjoy having a more favorable reputation). The impression I get is that Mavic is more of the former than the latter.

    Since I like the sandwich method when delivering what I would hope is constructive criticism, I will finish by reiterating that I really like their rims, and feel that they are of very high quality. If they weren't, we probably wouldn't be having such a discussion about the rest of their stuff. JMHO.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    My opinion is that you're a paid shill that's incapable of differentiating fact from fiction.

    As such your opinion will not be trusted WRT wheel stuffs.
    Mikesee,
    So much for "constructive dialog". Looks like you have a wheel building business, and if you've built 7,000 pairs you obviously know how to put together a good set. I'm not here to push anything on anyone, I'm here to help out if anyone has a question and to be a conduit between real world riders and product managers. If I say something that you don't agree with tell how you think I'm wrong with something to back it up. I like to think I know everything but unforThis is my experience; I've run Mavic wheels for close to 10 years. I've traveled around the world and used them for every style of riding possible. In that time I've broken ONE spoke and the wheel stayed straight so my trip wasn't ruined and I completely blew up a wheel which wouldn't have lasted if it was made of solid steel. Up until a few years ago anyone would agree the freehubs needed a lot of maintainence, but since they introduced the IT'S-4 I've even started using them to ride trials. If you're familiar with that sport you know that brakes and a dependable freehub are the two most important pieces of equipment you could have. Basically if a freehub fails you smash your face, and I happen to like my face ;-) I've traveled to France and got to go to the factory where they design, test and build their wheels and the amount of work that goes into producing a wheel was amazing. The whole point of designing a wheel system is to create a product that has a certain ride characteristic and consistent ride quality. This is the case for any manufacturer who takes on this task, not only Mavic. Most people that work for bike companies ride, so they aren't looking to make parts that are difficult to find or to over charge for spokes. As a rider I've found the whole proprietary parts arguement to be a non issue yet the topic keeps showing up in threads. My question was simple and definitely not a sales pitch or misinterpretation of facts. Have you had issues personally? Does the idea just freak you out? Just curious what your feedback is. I'm not a bike salesman, I'm a bike rider and the info that I can pass along makes better products for everyone. I hope that clears things up because that was a shaky start.

  29. #29
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    Jeff,
    No one will ever accuse them of rushing things to market. Like you mentioned, they have some new aftermarket rims available for 2014 so hopefully they'll catch on. The delrin bushing was a maintainence headache, but you'll be pleased to know that all the new free hubs use a different system and require far less maintainence. The ERD comment is definitely useful and I can ask about that!

    Jeff

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    Hey guys, I want to start a constructive dialog regarding the common gripe I hear about "proprietary parts" on wheels. I've been a Mavic athlete for close to 10 years so I'm very familiar with the products and I answer a lot of questions on forums on their behalf when I feel like I can add something to the conversation. I'm just trying to understand the pushback I read about sometimes regarding the system approach to bike components, particularly wheels. Most manufacturers that have the resources are pushing towards a complete wheel system these days because when all the parts are designed to work together you can achieve some low weights and consistent ride characteristics. I've been using Mavic wheels for over decade now on all my bikes, in all different types of applications and I've never had an issue where my downtime was a result of a part that I couldn't find a replacement for. I think the idea of building wheels as light or as strong as some of the popular systems using off the shelf parts seems idealistic but it's just not realistic. I tour around to a lot of bike shops and double butted spokes, aluminum nipples, rims strips and similar stuff is just as difficult to find in my experience as a particular wheel manufacturers part. What's your opinion or experience?
    My only issue with the proprietary components is the replacement cost. I am not too worried about wait times. I have a set of 2011 low mileage Crossmax St wheels in my garage. I bent the lip on the rear rim. It is fairly small but the metal has spider web cracks all around it. I looked into having the rim replaced but I found out I have to replace all of the spokes as well. Just for parts I am looking at $160 for the rim and another $100 for the spokes. That is over half of what I paid for the wheelset.
    Killing it with close inspection.

  31. #31
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    I've had a set of 26" Mavic Crossmax wheels on my Specialized Epic for the last 6 years and I have absolutely no complaints with the wheels other than there is a wheel weight (opposite the valve stem) that has come loose on the front wheel and clicks with each revolution. The wheels have held up very well, never gone out of true, are UST and hole air very well. I would purchase Mavic wheels again in the future.

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    Got a set of 2013 Mavis Crossmax ST's and so far im happy, look the business, just the right amount of freewheel hub noise, setup tubeless easy enough. Price to weight seemed reasonable and i had a 10% discount when i bought them from Chainreaction .... it was these or the Carbon Speccys and £300 plus more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireLikeIYA View Post
    My only issue with the proprietary components is the replacement cost. I am not too worried about wait times. I have a set of 2011 low mileage Crossmax St wheels in my garage. I bent the lip on the rear rim. It is fairly small but the metal has spider web cracks all around it. I looked into having the rim replaced but I found out I have to replace all of the spokes as well. Just for parts I am looking at $160 for the rim and another $100 for the spokes. That is over half of what I paid for the wheelset.
    assume your getting close to the cost of just a replacement wheel then?

    not to mention the speediness of getting back on the trails.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Best RIMS in the business. But everything else, from spokes to hubs to headsets...they never seem to get quite right...
    What's a good 29er rim from Mavic?
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  35. #35
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    Jeff L // "As a rider I've found the whole proprietary parts arguement to be a non issue yet the topic keeps showing up in threads."

    Perhaps, I'm missing something here - please correct if mistaken. (not trying to pee in your Cheerios)
    This will continue, as "wheel systems" are built with non-standard, proprietary parts, which are not readily available.
    When purchasing, few riders order spare spokes & nips to perform repairs. Instead they often must be shipped back to the mfg for servicing.

    Please inform us regular (non-sponsored) riders, what part of this ^ is not factual, and or argumentative?
    If not, then please recognize that for most, wheel systems represent a potential maintenance nightmare
    that outweighs their light, cool, performance factor, and that we equate down-time with lost opportunities & cost.

  36. #36
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    Flyin_w,
    Let's go all the way back to the beginning. This thread started because someone posted Mavic Sucks! Why? Because they're wheel was creaking... I jumped on and said, put a drop of oil on it and the problem is solved. Most bikes have aluminum hubs and wire spokes, Mavics are Aluminum on Aluminum so they need to be oiled. Then more people chimed in and said they don't like them because of the proprietary parts. I've had great experience so I posed a question "What don't you like about them?" and unfortunately some people took that as me pushing out misinformation or trying to be a salesman. On the Internet people just write stuff and don't follow it up so I was trying to get to the bottom of it. When you push the performance envelope on any system of a bicycle you reach a certain point where proprietary products can help you gain things. When you break a derailer hanger or snap a hydraulic brake hose you can't just pick that stuff of at your LBS either but the "proprietary part" issue doesnt come up as often on that stuff so I'm just wondering what the major rub is when it comes to wheels. I think you've got me wrong because I definitely was not trying to be arguementative about it, I was asking fellow riders if it's just something that scares you or has actually happened. You finished your post saying that in your opinion "the potential downtime outweighs the light, cool, performance factor" that's totally legit, others will say those are the only factors they base they're decision off off. At the end of the day hopefully everyone is riding down the trail with smiles on their faces whether it's on a rigid singlespeed or a carbon fiber dual suspension bike.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireLikeIYA View Post
    My only issue with the proprietary components is the replacement cost. I am not too worried about wait times. I have a set of 2011 low mileage Crossmax St wheels in my garage. I bent the lip on the rear rim. It is fairly small but the metal has spider web cracks all around it. I looked into having the rim replaced but I found out I have to replace all of the spokes as well. Just for parts I am looking at $160 for the rim and another $100 for the spokes. That is over half of what I paid for the wheelset.
    I'd get a second option on that. If its low mileage it shouldn't be an issue. When the spokes are over tensioned for a long time the heads can expand and make them difficult to reuse but if they're fairly new that shouldn't be the case.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    What's a good 29er rim from Mavic?
    It depends on the type of riding and your budget really. Mavic just released some new rims the XM819 and the EN821 they are 19mm and 21mm internal width respectively and UST. Might be a good choice.

  39. #39
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    I had first Crossmax, then Crossmax XL, then Crossmax ST now the SX, try some Stan wheels and .... only bad things
    The new Mavic hubs are excellent, agree the older models need frequent maintenance.

    Mavic sucks-865c5f9afa3a11e29e1622000a9d0ec7_7.jpg

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    It depends on the type of riding and your budget really. Mavic just released some new rims the XM819 and the EN821 they are 19mm and 21mm internal width respectively and UST. Might be a good choice.


    They still require the Mavic proprietary nipples to screw into the rim. Just like their wheel systems. So you still need to order additional parts just to build a wheel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by frdfandc View Post
    They still require the Mavic proprietary nipples to screw into the rim. Just like their wheel systems. So you still need to order additional parts just to build a wheel.
    The aftermarket wheels require a special eyelet that comes with any rim that features FORE drilling. You build up the wheels with traditional hubs, spokes and nipples. The benefit of FORE drilling is that they don't drill through the entire rim so you end up having a stronger structure which also happens to be airtight so you don't need to use a rimstrip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    It depends on the type of riding and your budget really. Mavic just released some new rims the XM819 and the EN821 they are 19mm and 21mm internal width respectively and UST. Might be a good choice.
    Thanks for the info!!! I did not know these rims existed. My 26" XM819 rims have been bulletproof. Me, and I suspect many others, have been wishing for an 821 rim option!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    Hey guys, I want to start a constructive dialog regarding the common gripe I hear about "proprietary parts" on wheels.
    Fair enough. I commented the way I did because it's rare, if not unheard of, that a manufacturer's representative (to use a blanket term) actually wants to hear anything constructive. They're typically here for damage control--but that's fine too.


    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    I've been a Mavic athlete for close to 10 years
    This entitles you to a hardwired opinion based on your experience, but it doesn't come close to accounting for all of the BS that John Q. Public and/or the in-the-trenches guys at LBS's across the globe have to deal with vis-a-vis Mavic. If you *truly* want to make a difference with Mavic, tell them to take care of their dealers, so that they in turn can take care of the end user.

    Put another way, every product can/has/will fail under the right circumstances. It's how the company takes care of you from that point that really matters. And Mavic is equalled in their shoddiness only by American Classic in that dep't.

    I stopped carrying both of the above in my shop *years* ago because I was tired of getting the run around, not getting a response at all, or listening to some BS buck passing on why it wasn't really their fault/problem/responsibility.


    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    I'm just trying to understand the pushback I read about sometimes regarding the system approach to bike components, particularly wheels.

    Be honest: Are you trying to understand it, or are you trying to spin it in your favor?


    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    Most manufacturers that have the resources are pushing towards a complete wheel system these days because when all the parts are designed to work together you can achieve some low weights and consistent ride characteristics.

    Low weights? For whom? Your wheels may indeed be light for what a 300# rider needs, but they aren't durable enough for said rider, and they clearly aren't (nor were they designed for) remotely *light* for the ~110# weight weenie that can do *far* better by having something custom built for their specific needs.

    'Designed to work together'? So you mean j-bend spokes weren't meant to thread into all these nips I've got here?! And those nips aren't meant to mate with the eyelets on the rims I have hanging here?

    That's just silly. Please clarify, or just stop making such nonsensical claims.

    Consistent ride characteristics? What does that even mean, and how does a non-system wheel differ?

    I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that'n until you clarify.


    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    I've been using Mavic wheels for over decade now on all my bikes, in all different types of applications and I've never had an issue where my downtime was a result of a part that I couldn't find a replacement for.

    Congratulations--sincerely.


    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    I think the idea of building wheels as light or as strong as some of the popular systems using off the shelf parts seems idealistic but it's just not realistic.
    I'm not sure I follow you here. If I'm understanding you right, you're saying a system wheel is *lighter* than a non-system wheel that uses off-the-shelf j-bend spokes and such?

    If that's what you mean, that's not just silly, it's disingenuous and wrong.

    Please clarify.


    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    I tour around to a lot of bike shops and double butted spokes, aluminum nipples, rims strips and similar stuff is just as difficult to find in my experience as a particular wheel manufacturers part.

    I don't agree with this *at all*, but I can see where people's experience here will vary based on where they live.


    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    What's your opinion or experience?

    You asked...


    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    I'm here to help out if anyone has a question and to be a conduit between real world riders and product managers.

    Awesome. I'll reiterate--please help Mavic to understand that dealer support is, and has been, lacking. That alone will make a tremendous difference.


    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    I've traveled to France and got to go to the factory where they design, test and build their wheels and the amount of work that goes into producing a wheel was amazing.

    Nifty.


    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    The whole point of designing a wheel system is to create a product that has a certain ride characteristic and consistent ride quality.

    Hmmm. OK. So, uh, how do you account for the variable levels of torque, fatigue and (non-tech term, I know) abuse imparted on the same 'system' wheelset by a timid 110# woman and an aggressive 260# twentysomething? Surely you can see that they have *very* different needs in a wheelset?

    So either she's pedaling something massively overbuilt (thus heavier than it needs to be) for her needs, or he's on something underwhelmingly fragile.

    In this case, it has to be one or the other. Which?


    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    Most people that work for bike companies ride, so they aren't looking to make parts that are difficult to find or to over charge for spokes.
    There is some truth to this, but the bike industry is big business nowadays and there are *far* more bean counters in positions of power than there are shredheads that want ease of maintenance and parts availability. I don't fault either of them for fighting to get their needs, but the truth is that the bean counters (hence the bottom line) win more often than not, which means that spare spokes (or delrin bushings) for system wheels often end up costing a lot more than a comparable j-bend spoke, and the former simply are much more rare at the dealer level.


    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    As a rider I've found the whole proprietary parts arguement to be a non issue yet the topic keeps showing up in threads.

    I was a sponsored athlete once, too. Which means that when I got my allotment of goods for the year I also got a box of spare goodies along with it--parts and bits and 'stuff' that made keeping my bikes in good shape through the season much easier. And it *did* make things easier because I didn't have to go looking for a part when something broke--I already had it. But that was many, many years ago, and I've since discovered that when you buy things at the retail level you don't automatically get the special service package that sponsored athletes get. When something breaks you actually have to go find that part. I'm guessing, and I'm willing to be wrong, that your experience is colored by the fact that you have spares (whole wheelsets, spare spokes, valve replacements, hub parts) at the ready so replacing a broken/bent/compromised part is no big deal.

    Put much more simply, this issue keeps showing up in threads because it's real for John Q. Public.


    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    Have you had issues personally? Does the idea just freak you out? Just curious what your feedback is.

    Yes, I have. Multiple freehub failures throughout one season, several of which required sending the whole rear wheel back to Mavic for inspection, because they couldn't believe it was failing so fast and under such relatively light use. Over the span of that season I was without my 'main' wheel for almost two months, and never got to where I trusted it to get me far into the woods *and* back.

    But that was then...

    ...nowadays I get to live vicariously through the many, many, many riders that have been smitten by the promise of a Mavic system wheelset, only to get burned by it (or the lack of CS behind it) at some point. They come knocking on my virtual door looking for something they can trust. Which is to say that in the end I am *intensely* grateful that Mavic keeps on plugging along, business-as-usual, making things the way they always have. They've created a certain level of job security for me in so doing--I just wish that John Q. Public didn't have to spend the money twice before getting one good wheelset.

    Cheers,

    MC

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    I'd get a second option on that. If its low mileage it shouldn't be an issue. When the spokes are over tensioned for a long time the heads can expand and make them difficult to reuse but if they're fairly new that shouldn't be the case.
    I called Mavic to see if I could purchase the parts direct. The guy I talked to said the spokes need to be replaced (and that I have to go through a shop for parts). I might try it without. I have two other sets of Crossmax ST's to keep me going for a while. I might just sell the 2011's "as is with small dent" as I don't need them... I have seen a similiar set sell for $250 in worse shape. This does bring up another issue... why can't consumers buy parts direct?
    Killing it with close inspection.

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    Mavic sucks

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Fair enough [...]
    MC
    Werd
    In typical fashion, MC's comments are much more eloquently put than I or most of the riders and mechanics I know would put it, which is more along the lines of "f**k Mavic."
    The lack of end user support, which includes lack of dealer support to provide that end user support is unbelievable... it epitomizes the "uncaring corporate giant" paradigm that I am loathe to invoke but fail to more appropriately characterize.
    The "SSD" ridiculousness is but a suggestion of Mavic's out-of-touchness. Their own spoke length calculator does not use the dimension. WTF with "locknut to flange" dimensions?!? Like SSD, they have to be converted to mathematically useful dimensions for use in a calculator (Mavic's calculator makes these corrections behind the curtain). The very strong suggestion is an intent to be purposefully misleading, which is more devious but at the same time more believable than "too stupid to know better." A Mavic tech rep once told me that the DT Swiss spoke calculator is "wrong," when I can derive the equations and dupliate the calcs on my iPhone without issue. Mavic's calculator? Not so much.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

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    I have a set of Crossmax SX set on my 6" all-mountain bike. I've now ridden 5 seasons with them. I live in Squamish, so the riding season is 12 months of the year. They outlasted my last bike. I only run tubeless with non-tubeless tires (lighter than UST). I've broken one rear spoke, and had the free-hub rebuilt twice. I had the free-hubs rebuilt in a few days at a local shop and when I broke a spoke, my local shop had one on hand. I've raced them in 4 hour XC races, ridden all over BC with them, and I regularly ride them in the Whistler bike park. I'm not a great rider in the park, and occasionally case jumps with them. They've never been trued. I rode a fresh trail on Whistler's west side today with them and they still spin like new, on the original bearings.

    I have a set of Crossmax ST wheels on my XC bike. They're 5 seasons old as well. They came from my wife's old bike after she sold it. I had a huge crash which resulted in my collarbone breaking in a bunch of places and left the rear rim with a huge dent in it. Once my collarbone healed, I grabbed that rim dent with a set of pliers and bent it back to straight. This left a longitudinal hole in the rim where the bend was. I thought I'd just use them as my 2nd set of wheels, only they've outlasted my 1st set and now I ride/race them all the time. I run them tubeless without UST tires and the Stan's white stuff has sealed the hole from my ghetto repair. That was 2 1/2 years ago. They've also never been trued.

    I remember getting my wheels trued all the time before getting Mavic wheels. I'm getting a new race bike in the spring, and although I'm not sure if I'll be getting Mavic wheels, I'll definitely be considering them.

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    here in Oz most XC racers dreamed of owning a set of mavic wheels and they Were the race wheel to purchase if you had the dollars. Over the last 2-3 years the number of riders using them has dramatically declined. (Only 2 riders I know race mavic 29ers ) ENVE has replaced Mavic as the wheel set to purchase if you have the dollars.

    Why have mavic lost market share? some possible reasons. They are not available online to purchase and riders can't purchase them anywhere at a discounted price, major issues sourcing parts, problems with the hubs, carbon rims are stronger and newer technology. they are nolonger cool. don't sponsor events or riders. No social media involvement in the sport that i have seen.

    I loved my SLR's but when i moved over to a 29er i couldn't justify the price for a set of crossmax when i could purchase a similar product for 1/3 of the price. (obviously didn't by ENVE's)

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    Got a set of SLRs and I love um. Stiff as hell and perfect for my needs. If push comes to shove and I become a dissatisfied customer, they'll be easy enough to sell!

  49. #49
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    Wife's Tallboy came with Mavic 719 rims laced to DT Swiss 350 hubs. They were tough but quite heavy. We got her a set of American Classic Race 29er wheels and shaved off massive weight; she loves them. I picked up a new road bike a while back. The bike was nice but came with some heavy wheels, the LBS offered to sell me some Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels at a good price. I took the deal and believed the wheels were tough and fairly light.

    One day, about 2 months ago, I noticed the rear wheel was not true. So, i grabbed the proprietary spoke wrench from my wife's Ksyrium SLRs from her road bike in order to true my wheel. The wrench didn't fit. Weird, Elites use a different spoke wrench. Looked a little closer and discovered that the rim was cracked.

    I called the LBS, they called Mavic who said they'd cover it under warranty. So, took it in and hoped to receive a wheel in a couple weeks. Well, that was nearly two months ago. My LBS said they are having trouble with Mavic in this situation. They even gave me the phone number and the RA# so i could call. If my LBS is having problems with them how could I possibly make a difference. Guess I'll just have to call and see what happens.

    In the mean time, Jeff, can you check on my wheel? RA# is GU0001. Bike Shop is Bike One in Norman, OK. Serial Number: CR10053918

  50. #50
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    Yeah, not to Mavic bash, but my TN719 rim is pretty dang heavy... but hey, I got it at a swap meet with a DTSwiss240s hub in it for mega cheap from a well known builder. It's stiff and holding up, I guess. But, that rim would not have been my first choice because of weight/price/width (or lack of width). I bought a couple of Sun Inferno 23 29er rims and they have been flawless... and with half the MSRP of a TN719 rim.

    That said, I have a set of Open Pros on my cross bike. I've pounded those things through rocky trails at speed, and they are still holding up just fine. No dents, still straight... and that is under my 210 pound sack of potatoes ass. That is one tough road bike rim, I tell ya. Not sure of how the weight compares, but weight to toughness ratio seems to be pretty good.

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    TCW you just did ( make a diff ) . A lot of folks read these forums and that kind of cs is just BS !! If that happens to me, they'll never see another penny from my pocket ever again. Plenty of others to choose from who do have good cs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    The aftermarket wheels require a special eyelet that comes with any rim that features FORE drilling. You build up the wheels with traditional hubs, spokes and nipples. The benefit of FORE drilling is that they don't drill through the entire rim so you end up having a stronger structure which also happens to be airtight so you don't need to use a rimstrip.
    I am well aware of the requirements. Currently using Shimano UST wheels - MT75's. So no rim tape needed. I also know about having to pre-order spare parts for proprietary wheels. Was stuck for over 2 weeks without my rear wheel, while waiting on spokes and the hub adapters to arrive from Japan.

    Mavic UST still requires a Special eyelet. Only required with Mavic. Not needed with a non-proprietary rim like a Stan's.

    That being said, I have built up several Stan's rims and not had any problems. And if a customer of mine needs a spoke, I can cut one on the spot for them. No need to contact Mavic.

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    "Mavic UST still requires a Special eyelet. Only required with Mavic. Not needed with a non-proprietary rim like a Stan's.

    That being said, I have built up several Stan's rims and not had any problems. And if a customer of mine needs a spoke, I can cut one on the spot for them. No need to contact Mavic."

    Aftermarket Mavic wheels DO NOT require you to order any extra parts. The rims require a special eyelet to hold traditional spokes and nipples that you can buy at any bike store. If proprietary parts aren't you're thing you might want to check these out since you can build them using more readily available components.

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    TCW I forwarded your post to my guys inside. I'll let you know. Feel free to DM or email me. Jeff@jefflenosky.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    TCW I forwarded your post to my guys inside. I'll let you know. Feel free to DM or email me. Jeff@jefflenosky.com
    Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post

    Aftermarket Mavic wheels DO NOT require you to order any extra parts. The rims require a special eyelet to hold traditional spokes and nipples that you can buy at any bike store. If proprietary parts aren't you're thing you might want to check these out since you can build them using more readily available components.

    Your not getting it. I highlighted your statement. REQUIRE A SPECIAL EYELET.

    This is what I'm getting at. You CAN'T build up a Mavic UST wheel WITHOUT these eyelets. You can't get those eyelets anywhere. They are a proprietary piece ONLY avail through Mavic, and only needed by these rims.

    That's all I'm saying. I know that regular spokes and nipples can be used, but you still need these special eyelets. If you don't have them, then you are farked.

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    The eyelets are included with the rim.
    If I disagree with you, it's because you are wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundowner View Post
    The eyelets are included with the rim.

    Your not following. Doesn't matter if they are included with the rim.

    If you need replacement eyelets, you just can't get them anywhere. They are a Mavic only part. Hence proprietary part because no other manufacture makes them. Only Mavic.

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    I find it funny that the OP has not responded once in this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim2103 View Post
    I find it funny that the OP has not responded once in this thread.
    I was thinking the same thing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash29r View Post
    I was thinking the same thing!
    Seems about par for the course.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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    Mike,*
    I had to digest this one a while. *Here ya go, I hope it answers your questions. *Thanks for taking the time to provide some constructive feedback.
    I've put my original comments in bold, yours in italics and my follow up in the standard font.

    Jeff
    *Originally Posted by*JeffLenosky*
    Hey guys, I want to start a constructive dialog regarding the common gripe I hear about "proprietary parts" on wheels.

    Fair enough. I commented the way I did because it's rare, if not unheard of, that a manufacturer's representative (to use a blanket term) actually wants to hear anything constructive. They're typically here for damage control--but that's fine too.

    I understand your skepticism, but Mavic has invested resources in trying to change that. *I have an athlete contract and I help out doing community management. They're completely separate deals and I agreed to take *on the latter because I thought it could be fun to offer my experience and opinion to fellow riders regarding Mavic products. *If you search the boards you'll see that's what I try to do, offer my experience or opinion, not cram their products down peoples throats. *This thread has been a challenge.


    *Originally Posted by*JeffLenosky*
    I've been a Mavic athlete for close to 10 years

    This entitles you to a hardwired opinion based on your experience, but it doesn't come close to accounting for all of the BS that John Q. Public and/or the in-the-trenches guys at LBS's across the globe have to deal with vis-a-vis Mavic. If you *truly* want to make a difference with Mavic, tell them to take care of their dealers, so that they in turn can take care of the end user.

    Put another way, every product can/has/will fail under the right circumstances. It's how the company takes care of you from that point that really matters. And Mavic is equalled in their shoddiness only by American Classic in that dep't.*

    I stopped carrying both of the above in my shop *years* ago because I was tired of getting the run around, not getting a response at all, or listening to some BS buck passing on why it wasn't really their fault/problem/responsibility.


    You're absolutely correct, you have some great feedback, and you are certainly in the trenches. I disagree that my 25+ years in the industry doesn't offer a equally valuable yet different perspective.

    *Originally Posted by*JeffLenosky*
    I'm just trying to understand the pushback I read about sometimes regarding the system approach to bike components, particularly wheels.

    Be honest: Are you trying to understand it, or are you trying to spin it in your favor?

    I'm honestly interested. I took this job to help riders and to be a conduit between them and Mavic. *Those are my intentions.

    *Originally Posted by*JeffLenosky*
    Most manufacturers that have the resources are pushing towards a complete wheel system these days because when all the parts are designed to work together you can achieve some low weights and consistent ride characteristics.


    Low weights? For whom? Your wheels may indeed be light for what a 300# rider needs, but they aren't durable enough for said rider, and they clearly aren't (nor were they designed for) remotely *light* for the ~110# weight weenie that can do *far* better by having something custom built for their specific needs.

    'Designed to work together'? So you mean j-bend spokes weren't meant to thread into all these nips I've got here?! And those nips aren't meant to mate with the eyelets on the rims I have hanging here?

    That's just silly. Please clarify, or just stop making such nonsensical claims.

    Consistent ride characteristics? What does that even mean, and how does a non-system wheel differ?

    I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that'n until you clarify.


    I won't argue that a 110 pound weight weenie could do better with a custom build, but I think we can both agree that's a unique situation. *

    You are correct that the Swiss spokes you have hanging on your wall will certainly fit into American made hubs and lace into Taiwanese rims using Chinese spoke nipples. *If they are build by a true wheel artisan who knows what they're doing they can absolutely build a good wheel. *I personally prefer a wheel where all of the components are designed in cooperation. Arguing which is better starts to sound like arguing about politics. *
    *Originally Posted by*JeffLenosky*
    I've been using Mavic wheels for over decade now on all my bikes, in all different types of applications and I've never had an issue where my downtime was a result of a part that I couldn't find a replacement for.

    Congratulations--sincerely.

    Thank you

    Originally Posted by*JeffLenosky*
    I think the idea of building wheels as light or as strong as some of the popular systems using off the shelf parts seems idealistic but it's just not realistic.
    I'm not sure I follow you here. If I'm understanding you right, you're saying a system wheel is *lighter* than a non-system wheel that uses off-the-shelf j-bend spokes and such?

    If that's what you mean, that's not just silly, it's disingenuous and wrong.

    Please clarify.


    I was speaking in generalities "off the shelf" meaning a hub, spoke, rim and spoke nipple the average shop would carry. *Brass nipples and straight gauge spokes aren't going to win and weight contests. *You can definitely source butted spokes, alloy nipples, carbon or aluminum rims and light weight hubs but it's typically special order. *I wasn't being disingenuous, I was just giving my opinion on what I see in the real world.


    *Originally Posted by*JeffLenosky*
    I tour around to a lot of bike shops and double butted spokes, aluminum nipples, rims strips and similar stuff is just as difficult to find in my experience as a particular wheel manufacturers part.


    I don't agree with this *at all*, but I can see where people's experience here will vary based on where they live.


    *Originally Posted by*JeffLenosky*
    I'm here to help out if anyone has a question and to be a conduit.
    Awesome. I'll reiterate--please help Mavic to understand that dealer support is, and has been, lacking. That alone will make a tremendous difference.

    I'm trying. *I passed along an incident from this thread directly to the head of CS. *Hopefully it will be resolved tomorrow. *If there's a positive outcome from that one interaction this thread will have been worthwhile.


    *Originally Posted by*JeffLenosky*
    As a rider I've found the whole proprietary parts arguement to be a non issue yet the topic keeps showing up in threads.


    I was a sponsored athlete once, too. Which means that when I got my allotment of goods for the year I also got a box of spare goodies along with it--parts and bits and 'stuff' that made keeping my bikes in good shape through the season much easier. And it *did* make things easier because I didn't have to go looking for a part when something broke--I already had it. But that was many, many years ago, and I've since discovered that when you buy things at the retail level you don't automatically get the special service package that sponsored athletes get. When something breaks you actually have to go find that part. I'm guessing, and I'm willing to be wrong, that your experience is colored by the fact that you have spares (whole wheelsets, spare spokes, valve replacements, hub parts) at the ready so replacing a broken/bent/compromised part is no big deal.

    Put much more simply, this issue keeps showing up in threads because it's real for John Q. Public.


    Congrats on your time as a sponsored athlete, we have that in common along with the fact that I've worked in bike shops so we both share similar experiences. Believe it or not I actually don't get boxes of back up products which one might think could make life easier, Instead I've been fortunate enough to choose and work with sponsors who make dependable gear. *As a professional rider having gear failures isn't just an inconvenience or a bummer, it could literally cost thousands of dollars. *I've traveled around the world making mountain bike films, competing and doing demos. *People expect *me to perform and I expect to have a fun safe ride. *Choosing equipment based solely on financial reasons would be downright irresponsible to every other sponsor I have who's equipment didn't fail. *I can't say I've never had something go wrong but I've been pretty fortunate. *I comment when I can offer helpful or favorable information, if I don't have something good to say I don't say anything. *I don't try to spin something in my favor for the sake of spinning it.*

    *Originally Posted by*JeffLenosky*
    Have you had issues personally? Does the idea just freak you out? Just curious what your feedback is.


    Yes, I have. Multiple freehub failures throughout one season, several of which required sending the whole rear wheel back to Mavic for inspection, because they couldn't believe it was failing so fast and under such relatively light use. Over the span of that season I was without my 'main' wheel for almost two months, and never got to where I trusted it to get me far into the woods *and* back.

    But that was then...

    That was then.....

    Today Mavic has introduced several new technologies that make their products more dependable than ever before. *They've also committed to having representatives like myself as well as others for different categories trying to help answer questions and gather information to improve their business practices.

  63. #63
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    TCW. Check your inbox for some info.

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    Quote Originally Posted by frdfandc View Post
    Your not following. Doesn't matter if they are included with the rim.

    If you need replacement eyelets, you just can't get them anywhere. They are a Mavic only part. Hence proprietary part because no other manufacture makes them. Only Mavic.
    I totally understand your point, however I can't think of an incident where you would ever need to replace the eyelet, they're used for the initial build and then shouldn't ever need to be tinkered with again.

  65. #65
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    Hey Jeff, that reply to mikesee is indecipherable. You should figure out a way to edit it in order to demarcate who is writing. Maybe put Mikesee's writing in italics or something.

    Edit: much better.

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    Jeff,

    I understand what you're saying. I spoke with my local master wheel builder this weekend. I took his class and we often talk about the physics and engineering of wheel components. I think that some of the Mavic wheels are designed to get close to an optimal strength to weight ratio, given the constraints of selling at a given price point.

    I have worked on older Mavic Crossmax wheels and found the nipples stuck to the point that I broke spokes trying to true a wheel. Thankfully these wheels were made with non-proprietary spokes. Recently I took a pair of newer crossmaxes into the wheel builder with a bent spoke and in need of truing. These wheels had proprietary bladed spokes and proprietary nipples. These nipples were also stuck to the point that the wheel builder, who has been building wheels for years was afraid to retension the wheel because breaking a spoke or stripping a nipple would have put a rider out of action for weeks and cost an enormous amount of money.

    Another rider cracked a rear hub on a set of ksyriums. This guy weighs about 135 and has a bad knee. He isn't putting down huge watts. In speaking to the wheel builder flanges and hubs break on ksyriums more than most wheel sets. These road wheels can't really be fixed either easily or cheaply.

    Mavic is not the only culprit here, another rider I know broke a spoke on an Ultegra wheel. His wheel will be out of commission for as long as it takes to get a Shimano spoke in.

    The point is that engineering is all fine, but without concern for the lifecycle of the product you put the end user in a crappy position. It's terribly wasteful to build a product that can't really be repaired. It makes me sad how many bikes come equipped with Ksyriums from the factory and will have people new to cycling dealing with these problems in a few years and thinking their LBS is full of a-holes.

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    Thanks everyone for all of your input some of it has been valuable but this thread started out pretty negatively by someone titling the thread "Mavic sucks" because of a simple issue with a super simple remedy. I've started to cringe each time I check my inbox because I actually hope that this thread dies a quick death. :-). When you've been making wheels for 100 years and there's hundreds of thousands of wheels in service you A) must obviously be making a decent product and B) some wheels are going to fail in the real world. Its not surprising if you know a guy, who knows a guy who had a problem, because for every problem theres many more that love thier wheels. I'm here signed in under my real name to give full disclosure ad to offer advice and share my knowledge with regards to Mavic products or anything else you might ask. I'm not here to be a Mavic salesman or to constantly defend the brand to guys who just make enonymous negative statements. There are a ton of great products
    On the market these days so everyone is going to have thier opinion on whats best for them. Mavic doesn't have intentions to build wheels for every rider planet instead they try to make the best products they can for certain types of riders. I've passed along some good information from this thread to the guys. Hopefully the constructive criticism will be put to use. If anyone ever has a question feel free to reach out otherwise I hope to see you out on the trail.

  68. #68
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    Never had a problem with Mavic

    The Mavic wheelset on my road bike has been flawless for years and in mountain biking, all my experience has been positive with Mavic rims. Never having had a Mavic mountain bike wheelset I can't comment on that. The only problem I ever had with a Mavic rim was riding downhill on an XC hardtail using the old 517's. Who wouldn't expect a problem when obviously using the product it was not designed for. Mavic is my go to product when I'm building up new wheels. They just plain work.

  69. #69
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    Jeff, you are earning your keep!
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  70. #70
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    Here's the deal. Mavic may have some issues with proprietary stuff that causes issues for some folks; I get that. But, I just have to tell you about my updated situation. Jeff gave me a point of contact at Mavic for the busted wheel. I called that person; he was extremely professional and courteous. I am super happy with the resolution they are providing. With this positive experience I have to conclude that the company is really stepping up their customer service in a way that's going to redeem their past mistakes. For the record, this is the first time I've dealt with them and they were superb. Thanks Jeff for helping me out.
    Last edited by TCW; 09-24-2013 at 12:14 PM.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    I totally understand your point, however I can't think of an incident where you would ever need to replace the eyelet, they're used for the initial build and then shouldn't ever need to be tinkered with again.


    No, there should ever need tinkered with again, unless they need replaced when doing regular spoke replacement.


    I rather have a couple extra parts then not need them. I learned this the hard way with my current Shimano UST wheels. I broke a couple of spokes and had to wait 2 weeks for replacements. I ordered extra spokes/nips/inserts (goes into the hub) for future use if i ever need them. I hope I don't, but you can't be too careful.


    But let me just end my part in this ongoing thread that I don't think Mavic sucks. Just some extra precautions should be taken.

    Remember the 6 P's

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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    I totally understand your point, however I can't think of an incident where you would ever need to replace the eyelet, they're used for the initial build and then shouldn't ever need to be tinkered with again.
    They break sometimes, especially when you would like to rebuild the wheel or replace a broken spoke, both of which require removal and reinstallation of the skrewed eyelet.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    Hey Guys,
    I've been running Mavic wheels for over a decade and I've found them to be some of the most reliable wheels around. I started doing Community Management for them this year so I'm around to answer any questions you might have. Feel free to DM me or post them up here. Napa, I read your comment about creaky wheels and it's a really simple fix. The hub/spoke interface on the wheel wheel can dry out and since both components are aluminum they can creak. A drop of mineral oil right where the spoke heads sit on the rear hub will fix it, just be careful not to use too much and avoid your rotors. Hope that info helps and allows you to enjoy your wheels a little more.

    Jeff
    Thank you for the advice Jeff, but I have done that many times and it works for the 1st ride but by the 3rd ride its much worse, my other problem I'm having is my hub comes lose every couple of miles! Just to give an understating way I'm so pissed off, it took 2 years to save up for these wheels and before I even rode them the hubs were lose and rattled like crazy, so I took them back to where I bought them and they called you guys and one of your guys sent some kind of an adopter for the hubs which worked the front wheel but not the rear wheel so keep in mind I'm out a bike to ride for 2 half weeks after just spending a $1,000 then the spokes begin to creak like crazy! So I have sent back again and I'm charged for shipping again $30+ dollars and out of a bike to ride for 3 weeks!!! It just seems that after spending a $1,000 bucks I should be able to enjoy them for at least one ride!

  75. #75
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    agree with napa,
    mavic hubs are delicate, their spokes are brittle which leads to noise and broken spokes, and when they break, it is proprietary. they can sieze. It's a factory built wheel, what did you expect? linseed is the only way i know of to prevent that because it is so thick it doesnt completely dry out. ti spokes and chris king/phil hub is the proper pair for mavic rims..... they are narrow and wider than 19 is heavy but they work flawlessly if built right. i've been riding 819 for 8 years with two wheel trues in DH and FR double black diamond areas. often it is easier to replace the wheel than try to find a spoke that is now out of stock with the supplier because it is outdated or not common on new wheels.

  76. #76
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    I have a set of 2013 Crossmax ST and I do like my wheels even after having problems with the spokes (cracking sounds) and my latest problems was with the rear hub axle snapping in half...
    looks like is a common problem since my local bike shop has them in stock... the guy at the bike shop told me they used the same axle on the ST and SLR models and wish me luck with the new one.
    what get to me is that Mavic continues to sale the same axle with it's poor design rather than improving it... maybe at $60 each is just good busyness for them!

  77. #77
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    There are a lot of old threads getting bumped...

    I'll add my 2p. Mavic sucks. People like them because they are unique looking, and in reality they work well enough for the people that have enough money to buy them once. These people usually don't work on their own bikes and the look is the primary motivator behind purchasing them. They are for riders. There are certainly better products out there... The mystery IMO is how to they keep getting people to buy them? How do they keep the mystic going?

    The thing is that most of the people that do ride them also never really have the opportunity to ride anything else. Most people don't have access to/buy multiple high end wheel sets just to try them out. Thus, these people are genuinely ignorant that you can have a lighter, better wheel set out of off the shelf parts. That customer doesn't want off the shelf though.

    I like the guy spinning this in Mavics favor. The dealer support is a joke at best. It took me three months and three rims to get a replacement Crossmax rim. This was calling and emailing them several times and sending pictures and providing the model, year, color scheme, the serial number etc. The price of said rim varied wildly between $38 and $167 wholesale and no one knew how much it cost. None of the rims had replacement eyelets provided. That's just one wheel out of many. Shops don't stock db spokes? Right. Shops don't stock Mavic spokes. People forget Mavic spokes are like $15 EACH retail and are in a variety of colors and lengths and patterns. Then the hubs still suck...

  78. #78
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    In my opinion Mavic's reliance on bespoke parts is very much part of their business model. As I have stated, they are far and away the most specced wheels on big manufacturer road bikes. Most folks don't know how much it will cost them down the road to fix these wheels, nor do they care. If you go to purchase non-oem wheels they cost quite a bit and could easily be bettered by a combination of off the shelf parts.

    It could very well be that it is just the sheer number of Mavic wheels out there that have us seeing so many complaints, but even if that is the case, the failures or wear and tear, are unjustifiably expensive to repair.

    There are other wheels I have acquired that had real engineering shortcomings, but when I bought them I was just too inexperienced to understand the inherent shortcomings of the products. It's only when spokes start breaking, nipples start disintegrating, or hubs start cracking that you realize that you would have been better off with something custom built made with off the shelf parts. These are pretty well thought of wheel companies and when you read the reviews, there is always praise for being light and stiff, but nothing about the non-interchangeable parts.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbwallace View Post
    As I have stated, they are far and away the most specced wheels on big manufacturer road bikes..
    No, they aren't... Not even close... Shimano and DT wheels are FAR more OEM spec than Mavic unless you're talking the CXP22 rims that are not the subject of the debate. If Ksyriums were stock it's because of the visual impact they make which is a sales consideration. This also a discussion of mountain bikes so that point is completely moot anyway.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    I liked their rims, but they sat on their hands and stopped developing new UST rims. The 819 and 823 have been unchanged since 2007 since I started back mtb. A lighter 823 would have had me stay with Mavic instead of building my new wheelset with WTB I23 rims.
    Just an update,
    I do believe they came out with an 821 rim. LOL

    Talk about too little too late. Most are looking to run 25+mm rims now. Dare I even say closer to 30+ mm rims really. Ibis jumped in with their wide rims.

    I'm really not sure what Mavic is going to do. They do not appear to be able to keep up. Sure their rims seem to be solid, but that really is not enough. I guess Mavic will be a clothing mfg/designer in 10 yrs from now.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  81. #81
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    Mavic also is involved in price fixing. This is illegal in the United States. What they will do is if a dealer sells their products for less than what the reccomend they will cut the dealer off. This includes replacement parts. Several dealers that I know of refuse to sell Mavic because of the high failure rate. Not only does this cost them money but is a liability issue. I can crack a Mavic on the front within 1000 miles. Weinmann 519 rims will never crack or buldge. Is it really worth it for 50 grams?
    "Dish is illogical." Spoke of Vulcan.

  82. #82
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    Mavic sucks

    Quote Originally Posted by zerodish View Post
    Mavic also is involved in price fixing. This is illegal in the United States. What they will do is if a dealer sells their products for less than what the reccomend they will cut the dealer off. This includes replacement parts. Several dealers that I know of refuse to sell Mavic because of the high failure rate. Not only does this cost them money but is a liability issue. I can crack a Mavic on the front within 1000 miles. Weinmann 519 rims will never crack or buldge. Is it really worth it for 50 grams?
    What you describe is not illegal price fixing. Manufacturers are allowed to set prices. Happens every day, everywhere.

    Illegal price fixing comes into play when competitors in the same industry collude to set the same price for both/all products.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReXTless View Post
    What you describe is not illegal price fixing. Manufacturers are allowed to set prices. Happens every day, everywhere.

    Illegal price fixing comes into play when competitors in the same industry collude to set the same price for both/all products.
    Meet zerodish... short on facts and long on opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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  84. #84
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    I personally hate seized nipples! My brother used to do that!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigrocks View Post
    I've had seized nipples on just about every wheel Iv'e owned, not just a Mavic issue.

    Also I have a set of STs I've been riding for 2 years and all I've done to them is lube the freeheub, which I found to be quite easy.

  85. #85
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    OK, I will kick this thread down the road to vent a little on Mavic. Just finished putting a rear 2012 Crossmax ST wheel back together for a friend. I have a set of the previous freehub design Mavics that I gave up on riding and put on my girlfriends bike. I had thought that the ITS design hubs was a fix for the terrible previous hubs that I have, but after repairing the ITS hub wheel, I am more convinced than ever that there is a problem with Mavic management if they keep releasing products with fundamental and obvious design faults.

    On the old hubs, who could have possibly thought that using a thin bushing to support the inside of the cassette body was a good idea? It definitely was the cheap solution, but it is about as durable as a crepe paper umbrella. A sloppy cassette is infuriating, and those hubs were sloppy compared to any hub with a properly supported cassette body from the start, and rapidly went downhill from there. There is a cottage industry on eBay providing fixes for those bushings, and I went through a few of them before giving up and getting new wheels. The bushings hold up just well enough to be worth keeping for the girlfriends bike, she doesn't ride as much and puts way less stress on them, but they still suck and are by far the worst part of what is a decent wheelset otherwise.

    So on the ITS style freehub wheels, I assumed that Mavic had come to their senses and made a decent hub. The cassette body is well supported by real bearings, and the hub looked like a functional design. Then my buddy comes home with a broken hub, and when I tear it down the axle is cleanly broken in half. Most of the driveside aluminum spokes are gouged from the chain dropping behind the cassette when the axle broke. When I put the broken pieces of the hub back together, I notice that there is a groove for an o-ring machined into the axle, and that it is exactly where it broke. The o-ring serves no important purpose, it is deep in the middle of the hub, so it is not keeping dirt out. And the groove for it acts like a fuse for the entire axle, it puts a weak spot right in the center of the hub, at the center hubshell bearing just inside the freehub. What could they have been thinking? This is the most obviously terrible idea I have ever seen in a high end bike part. Or probably any bike part for that matter. And of course, buying Mavic spare parts is never easy. We finally were able to track down everything required, at no small expense, and I replaced all 10 drive side spokes and the axle plus the freehub since it got gouged up a bit in the incident. I had to cut out 4 of the old spokes because the nipples were seized up. And as an insurance policy against another broken axle, I bought a 12mm to QR adapter full thru-axle and epoxied it into the Mavic axle which has a native 12mm bore, to make it a beefy assembly too stiff to fatigue and snap again at the groove of doom. Thanks for sucking, Mavic. You will never see another penny of mine or several of my friends.

  86. #86
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    I had a negative experience w/ mavic a few years back. Bought a pair of the C29SSMAX wheels and within 100mi the rear hub was having major issues. Brought it into the LBS I purchased them from, and they send pics and a well detail email to Mavic. Roughly 1 week goes by, and Mavic responds stating it would be covered under *warranty*. That was good news! Well, after honestly 1 month of the lbs getting the run-around from Mavic, it was concluded that there were no RP items available in the US, and because it was vacation time in France, there was no ETA for getting the required parts.

    Mavic offered to send a brand new wheelset out, which I thought was really a nice gesture...but what really sucked is they took their sweet time to ship them out. All said and done, it was close to 2 months before I had a replacement wheelset. But there is light at the end of the tunnel, which was the fact that Mavic taught me a great lesson. Just buy Chris King hubs and Stans wheels and NEVER worry about such horse sh!t CS ever again.

    I figured that my story was an isolated incident, and never really thought too much of it. But last week I swung by the same LBS and he had just finished reparing a fancy Mavic mtnbike rear hub. When the customer left, the LBS vented to me about what horse sh!t service Mavic has been providing. "I have six customers with these wheels, and every single one has had issues with the rear hub. Mavic just realized they have been sending me the wrong RP for them, which is why some of the customers have been back as many as four times. Three of the customers have asked for their money back, because the wheels have spend more time in the shop then on the trails."

    We really had a laugh when he pointed out a really nice looking set of Mavic cabon wheels on a road bike. "These wheels squeel sooo f'ing loud when braking, it honestly made a baby cry when the customer pulled up to an intersection. Mavic did tell me how to correctly adjust the brakes, but said it would be a few thousand miles before the noise went away". Haha

  87. #87
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    Broke 2nd Mavic SLR Axel, waiting for new one to come through LBS

    Quote Originally Posted by VonFalkenhausen View Post
    OK, I will kick this thread down the road to vent a little on Mavic. Just finished putting a rear 2012 Crossmax ST wheel back together for a friend. I have a set of the previous freehub design Mavics that I gave up on riding and put on my girlfriends bike. I had thought that the ITS design hubs was a fix for the terrible previous hubs that I have, but after repairing the ITS hub wheel, I am more convinced than ever that there is a problem with Mavic management if they keep releasing products with fundamental and obvious design faults.

    On the old hubs, who could have possibly thought that using a thin bushing to support the inside of the cassette body was a good idea? It definitely was the cheap solution, but it is about as durable as a crepe paper umbrella. A sloppy cassette is infuriating, and those hubs were sloppy compared to any hub with a properly supported cassette body from the start, and rapidly went downhill from there. There is a cottage industry on eBay providing fixes for those bushings, and I went through a few of them before giving up and getting new wheels. The bushings hold up just well enough to be worth keeping for the girlfriends bike, she doesn't ride as much and puts way less stress on them, but they still suck and are by far the worst part of what is a decent wheelset otherwise.

    So on the ITS style freehub wheels, I assumed that Mavic had come to their senses and made a decent hub. The cassette body is well supported by real bearings, and the hub looked like a functional design. Then my buddy comes home with a broken hub, and when I tear it down the axle is cleanly broken in half. Most of the driveside aluminum spokes are gouged from the chain dropping behind the cassette when the axle broke. When I put the broken pieces of the hub back together, I notice that there is a groove for an o-ring machined into the axle, and that it is exactly where it broke. The o-ring serves no important purpose, it is deep in the middle of the hub, so it is not keeping dirt out. And the groove for it acts like a fuse for the entire axle, it puts a weak spot right in the center of the hub, at the center hubshell bearing just inside the freehub. What could they have been thinking? This is the most obviously terrible idea I have ever seen in a high end bike part. Or probably any bike part for that matter. And of course, buying Mavic spare parts is never easy. We finally were able to track down everything required, at no small expense, and I replaced all 10 drive side spokes and the axle plus the freehub since it got gouged up a bit in the incident. I had to cut out 4 of the old spokes because the nipples were seized up. And as an insurance policy against another broken axle, I bought a 12mm to QR adapter full thru-axle and epoxied it into the Mavic axle which has a native 12mm bore, to make it a beefy assembly too stiff to fatigue and snap again at the groove of doom. Thanks for sucking, Mavic. You will never see another penny of mine or several of my friends.
    Wondering how the 12mm adapter is holding up? After breaking my second axle (Mavic SLR) in the same place, the grove under that internal o-ring, I was thinking of installing one of these:

    MTB Tools Mountain Bike 12mm x 135mm Bolt On Wheel Adapter for Thru Axle Hub

    Is the epoxy necessary or do you think just having the axle inside enough? Very disappointed in this situation, other Mavic wheels both road and mtb have been reliable for years. But I will most likely not be purchasing any more of these wheels in the future.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by rtbike View Post
    Wondering how the 12mm adapter is holding up? After breaking my second axle (Mavic SLR) in the same place, the grove under that internal o-ring, I was thinking of installing one of these:

    MTB Tools Mountain Bike 12mm x 135mm Bolt On Wheel Adapter for Thru Axle Hub

    Is the epoxy necessary or do you think just having the axle inside enough? Very disappointed in this situation, other Mavic wheels both road and mtb have been reliable for years. But I will most likely not be purchasing any more of these wheels in the future.
    It is holding up fine, I had forgotten about it but he is still using those wheels with no issues since the repair. I am not sure if the epoxy was necessary, I am sure it didn't hurt. The tighter the fit the less important the epoxy would be, but if the adapter was loose in the axle bore I would be more inclined to bond it in there and make it a solid assembly, less chance for the axle to fatigue and break again. Although if it did break the adapter would support it enough to ride on I would think.

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    By ernie00 in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-01-2011, 02:43 PM

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