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  1. #1
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    Lets Revisit Wheelsets- Which on is the best?

    I was looking at
    Enve rims

    and the new mavic Crossmax's

    What I am leaning towards the crossmax's becasue they are 1500 dollars cheaper.
    And the thought of Carbon rims still scare me.

    What do you all think in terms of performance without price then the all things with price considered?

  2. #2
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    My buddy rides the hell out of his Enve AM's... if I had the cash it's what I'd order.

  3. #3
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    Other options are the Derby rims with 29mm interior width and hookless.
    Home, wide rims, carbon fiber rims, mountain bike rims
    For aluminum American Classic Wide Lightening.
    WIDE LIGHTNING|29 TUBELESS

  4. #4
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    Are the Easton Haven rims (not the wheels) any good? Are they as durable and nice as the Enves?

  5. #5
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    I have Flow EX's right now, only put about 100 miles on them and they seem really durable. I can feel the flex though. I don't have the cash for a set of Enve's so I just ordered the Derbys. Not sure what hubs I'm going to build them with yet.

  6. #6
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    Not the best, but if you'd like carbon at a great price point...try the Light Bike rims?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by GelatiCruiser View Post
    Not the best, but if you'd like carbon at a great price point...try the Light Bike rims?
    +10 on the Light Bike Rims. Been riding a set for about a month and really impressed. LB rims laced to dtswiss 240 hubs.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    My buddy rides the hell out of his Enve AM's... if I had the cash it's what I'd order.
    The ENVE AM's are too skinny to be fun to trail ride with in my book, YMMV. I have a set of Derby rims with the extra carbon layup and 36h on order. They are going to be built 3x with Sapim X-ray spokes. By the initial reports they should be very sweet.

    I had great hope that he Syntace w35 (35mm wide) wheels with the offset spoke bed would be available by now but no luck.
    Abandoned the 26" wheel in May '03

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29erchico View Post
    The ENVE AM's are too skinny to be fun to trail ride with in my book, YMMV. I have a set of Derby rims with the extra carbon layup and 36h on order. They are going to be built 3x with Sapim X-ray spokes. By the initial reports they should be very sweet.

    I had great hope that he Syntace w35 (35mm wide) wheels with the offset spoke bed would be available by now but no luck.
    I dont want to take the chance on the LB rims even though there are ton of positive reviews.

    I want a wheelset prebuilt and I have the cash for it.

    I also want the best of the best with the best performance gains while the hopefull durability to last at least 5 years w/o any freak accidents.

    I ride XC, but I weigh 200+ and I ride hard and mash hard.
    I need somthing that kind withstand abuse

  10. #10
    rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by toot334455 View Post
    I dont want to take the chance on the LB rims even though there are ton of positive reviews.

    I want a wheelset prebuilt and I have the cash for it.

    I also want the best of the best with the best performance gains while the hopefull durability to last at least 5 years w/o any freak accidents.

    I ride XC, but I weigh 200+ and I ride hard and mash hard.
    I need somthing that kind withstand abuse
    Well, you could wait a bit for the Syntace w35 prebuilt wheels to become available. They should be pretty light, tough & very high quality. The offset spoke bed is a sweet feature. Tubeless capable also.

    I went to Universal Cycles and the 29er w35's are actually listed now. So that means that we should see them sometime in the next year.
    Abandoned the 26" wheel in May '03

  11. #11
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    Crossmax all day long...

    I've had the Crossmax SLRs since they were introduced. I run them tubeless on my Superfly Comp SS, and they are incredible (I weigh @ 210 geared up). The bike climbs insanely well, but what really surprised me is how well it descends. I am as fast down many sections on this bike as I am on my Remedy 9.7. No noticeable flex under load and they go exactly where I point them. Put about 2000 miles on them so far, and have done NOTHING to them other than changing out sealant 1 time on the front wheel. No problems seating tires, holding air, or staying true.

    Quote Originally Posted by toot334455 View Post
    I was looking at
    Enve rims

    and the new mavic Crossmax's

    What I am leaning towards the crossmax's becasue they are 1500 dollars cheaper.
    And the thought of Carbon rims still scare me.

    What do you all think in terms of performance without price then the all things with price considered?
    Have at it!

  12. #12
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    Nice find 29echio
    Syntace W35 MX Wheels Review - Pinkbike
    This review makes them sound promising.

    Also thanks for the input supersonic sounds like they perform as adevertised.

    So it sounds like the crossmax's perform better in terms of structure.
    While the syntax are wider so they perform better in that regard.

    Only if the crossmax's were as wide as the syntax's

    I do believe that the rachet system on the syntax's are better than the crossmax's correct me if im wrong?

    Another cool thing with the syntace wheels is the ability to run wider tires with less grip. So more traction therefore you need less knobs in turn making you faster overall due to the higher contact patch....

    I do believe that the crossmax's perfrom better from a physics standpoint though.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    For aluminum American Classic Wide Lightening.
    WIDE LIGHTNING|29 TUBELESS
    +1 on the Wide Lightnings... really good weight for the width, and great hubs... for a pretty decent price. I'll be saving in my piggy bank over the winter for these.

    MTBR had a great write-up about them. Feature: American Classic Wide Lightning and other 2014 Wheels | Mountain Bike Review
    ...Be careful what you're looking at because it might be looking back...

  14. #14
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by toot334455 View Post

    I want a wheelset prebuilt and I have the cash for it.

    I also want the best of the best with the best performance gains while the hopefull durability to last at least 5 years w/o any freak accidents.
    Industry Nine Enduro with Torch hubs

    Light, wide, stiff, wicked fast engagement, very durable, prebuilt and ready to ship, great customer service and the best hub buzz in the industry
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

    ― Albert Einstein

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel View Post
    Industry Nine Enduro with Torch hubs

    Light, wide, stiff, wicked fast engagement, very durable, prebuilt and ready to ship, great customer service and the best hub buzz in the industry
    DAMMM!!! THese are DOPE AS ****!

    DEFINANTLY the new front runner!

    Its like I want the Lacing and hubs with the cross max rims! The enduro rims might be overkill what do you think?

  16. #16
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by toot334455 View Post
    DAMMM!!! THese are DOPE AS ****!

    DEFINANTLY the new front runner!

    Its like I want the Lacing and hubs with the cross max rims! The enduro rims might be overkill what do you think?
    I think the Enduro rims are killer. I've been riding this set for two months. I previously had old style I-9's laced to Flows. The new rim is stiffer and has a wide tire profile. If you want to shave a few grams, I-9 also has a "trail" setup, but you'll sacrifice stiffness. At 200 lbs, I wouldn't recommend it unless your trails are buff. They also offer a carbon hoop, if you really want to go for it all.

    INDUSTRY NINE :: torch wheels

    Last I checked, Competitive Cyclist had the 29 Enduro in stock - that's where I bought my last set.
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

    ― Albert Einstein

  17. #17
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    I'd go for the American Classic Race 29, AC Wide Lightning or Light-Bicycle carbon rims built up with hubs of your choice.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by toot334455 View Post
    I want a wheelset prebuilt and I have the cash for it.

    I also want the best of the best with the best performance gains while the hopefull durability to last at least 5 years w/o any freak accidents.
    If you want the best of the best, why would you go with pre-built wheels?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by savechief View Post
    If you want the best of the best, why would you go with pre-built wheels?
    I lived by the point of view for a number of years. But my 3 sets of I-9 "prebuilts" have been every bit as good as my gourmet hand-built wheels
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

    ― Albert Einstein

  20. #20
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    I don't doubt that I9 wheels are good, but I believe that he can build a "better" alloy wheelset for much less or a carbon wheelset for not too much more. I personally would never pay $1200+ for an alloy wheelset, no matter how many POE the rear hub has.

    I say "better" because the OP really hasn't defined any priorities or preferences in this new wheelset, or where/what he rides, other than saying it's XC, that he weighs 200+ pounds and that he rides/mashes hard. If he really does ride that hard, I would say that in 5 years, something is going to either break or need to be addressed, and going with non-proprietary stuff will make it easier for his LBS to handle whatever happens.

    Since the OP has mentioned his weight and that he wants them to be reliable, and nothing about riding extremely technical terrain that would require 120 POE hubs, why not build up a set of 32-hole Flow EX wheels with some White Industries hubs and DT Swiss Competition spokes for $800-$900? I don't see how these wheels would be inferior to the I9's unless the OP provides some additional information to convince me otherwise.

  21. #21
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    I am running the I9 torch endure wheel set---235lbs and I ride routinely with a 20 pound pack on my back (for commuting) in addition to a variety of single track. The wheels have held up very well (although there was a bearing defect that I9 took care of under warranty--no problem). While the I9's are great, there is the complication that should you need to replace a spoke, you are not likely to find one laying around at your local shop.

  22. #22
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by orind View Post
    While the I9's are great, there is the complication that should you need to replace a spoke, you are not likely to find one laying around at your local shop.
    Valid point. In the past, my I-9 wheelsets came with several extra spokes. They don't include that with the Torch series. For that very reason, I purchased 4 extra spokes directly from I-9 which I keep in my toolbox "just in case".
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

    ― Albert Einstein

  23. #23
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    I haven't owned the torch hubs, but had read a few scary things about the bearings.

    On p11 alone of this thread are a couple. Posts 254/255.

    Industry Nine Torch Wheels?

  24. #24
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by savechief View Post
    I don't doubt that I9 wheels are good, but I believe that he can build a "better" alloy wheelset for much less or a carbon wheelset for not too much more. I personally would never pay $1200+ for an alloy wheelset, no matter how many POE the rear hub has.

    I say "better" because the OP really hasn't defined any priorities or preferences in this new wheelset, or where/what he rides, other than saying it's XC, that he weighs 200+ pounds and that he rides/mashes hard. If he really does ride that hard, I would say that in 5 years, something is going to either break or need to be addressed, and going with non-proprietary stuff will make it easier for his LBS to handle whatever happens.

    Since the OP has mentioned his weight and that he wants them to be reliable, and nothing about riding extremely technical terrain that would require 120 POE hubs, why not build up a set of 32-hole Flow EX wheels with some White Industries hubs and DT Swiss Competition spokes for $800-$900? I don't see how these wheels would be inferior to the I9's unless the OP provides some additional information to convince me otherwise.
    OP said he wants prebuilts.

    I have White Ind hubs on my road bike - they are very nice. But as memory serves me, they are heavier and have less POE than I-9 (I could be wrong and haven't checked specs for awhile)

    I agree that I'd consider a nicely hand-built set of Flow rims on decent hubs to be relatively equivalent to a good set of I-9s. But, again, OP wants prebuilt. Personally, I've developed a fondness for high engagement hubs like I-9, Hadley, King, etc. Hubs with less POE feel sloppy to me, but others seem not to notice the difference.

    While expensive, I9 offer an exceptional mix of POE, weight, stiffness, rim width & quality.The next step up, in the prebuilt realm, is something carbon at about double the cost. I remain skeptical than a carbon hoop would offer much performance advantage to the I-9 enduro (weight will be about the same, perhaps some gain in stiffness), but will consider rebuilding my torch hoops with the new Derby rims if durability issues don't surface.
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

    ― Albert Einstein

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by elcaro1101 View Post
    I haven't owned the torch hubs, but had read a few scary things about the bearings.

    On p11 alone of this thread are a couple. Posts 254/255.

    Industry Nine Torch Wheels?
    Evidently their first batch had some production issues. I've had no problems with mine, purchased in late July, with lots of accumulated technical miles.

    As for comments in that thread that I-9 customer service is bad, I have to disagree vehemently. I always get someone by phone when I call or an email reply with a few business days for less pressing questions.
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

    ― Albert Einstein

  26. #26
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    There is no such thing as the "one best wheel set".

    You have to ask a lot of questions if you really want the right answer for *you*.

    Best for whom--what rider height/weight/riding style?

    Best for where--what type of trail, in what environment?

    How often do you plan to ride them, for what duration, and how long do you expect them to last?

    Crossmaxes and other prebuilt wheelsets *can* tick all of those boxes, but for a very, very narrow range of riders. Be honest with your expectations.

  27. #27
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    Which Wheelsets are best?
    The post is about what wheelset is setting the standards ! THE upper Esichielon the TIER ONE wheels... THE BIG CHEESE!!!


    Theyre are multiple things that need to be addressed.

    Obviously If I have a wheelset handbuilt I can interchange almost any combination of hubs spokes and rims.

    I want the CREAM OF THE CROP!

    It says in the OP I HAVE THE CASH. Which means I WILL NOT purchase stans Flows or archs! And money is not an issue.

    This post is not about what is the most bang for the buck.


    I WOULD love a set of Enve's but I do not trust the reliability of carborn wheels just yet.

    I also dont really care if I dont need soooo many points of engagement.
    I want the best wheelset on the market right now.

    MIKESEE you didnt read the OP, But im glad you commented because It saved me the trouble of looking through old posts to find your site.

    Do people EVER really need more than 400 HP one a car? Hell no ! Does it stop someone with the cash.... Definantly not.

  28. #28
    twinsdad
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    If you want cream of the crop but not carbon why would you not go with Flow Ex's and I9 hubs and spokes? I'm not saying pre-built wheels aren't good these days but nothing will be having a pro build some wheels according to your weight and riding style....If money was no object I would never choose a pre built wheel over something handbuilt...The only other thing you might want to consider rim wise are the Pacenti rims as they are eyeletted and will last longer than the Flows....Also make sure you go with brass nipples if your looking for longevity....

  29. #29
    ballbuster
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    Carbon is the cream of the crop. They'll be more reliable than aluminum. Lighter AND stiffer.

    I'm not sure why you would want pre-builds. I say get some CK hubs or DT Swiss 240s hubs and lace them up to good carbon rims. You'll have wheels for a lifetime. If you trash the hoop, replace it. If you break a spoke, you can go to your LBS and replace it without having to wait for UPS and warranty departments. You aren't stuck with anybody's 'system' wheels.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    Carbon is the cream of the crop. They'll be more reliable than aluminum. Lighter AND stiffer.

    I'm not sure why you would want pre-builds. I say get some CK hubs or DT Swiss 240s hubs and lace them up to good carbon rims. You'll have wheels for a lifetime. If you trash the hoop, replace it. If you break a spoke, you can go to your LBS and replace it without having to wait for UPS and warranty departments. You aren't stuck with anybody's 'system' wheels.
    I am aware of all of the options between building a wheelset yourself to having somone hand building them.

    At that point it is easy to pick your favorite rim and your favorite hub.

    I want to learn how to build wheelset eventually but do not have the time right now. (Patience and or Discipline)

    So when it boils down to it I either have someone build them or order a prebuilt set.
    and in the future I will take on a wheelbuilding endeavor.

    Some of the questions stem from the different features rims and wheelsets have.

    Take the crossmax's for example: they shave off extra weight on certain areas of the rim so it "accelerates faster". Does this feature have an advantage over the enves?

    Another point for analysis is the hubs the crossmax wheelsets come with. IF I were to build a wheelset or have someone build them for me I would def. go with king... but how does the crossmax hubs compare to the kings?

    I honestly hate Stans rims.. specifically the fact that it says "no-tubes" all over it.

    I under stand they are realiable and strong. but there not the top of the line.

    I do 100% understand the benefits of handbuilt vs. prebuilt.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by toot334455 View Post

    I honestly hate Stans rims.. specifically the fact that it says "no-tubes" all over it.

    I under stand they are realiable and strong. but there not the top of the line.
    My FlowEx don't say anything on them.
    OG Ripley v2
    Carver 420 TI

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by toot334455 View Post
    I am aware of all of the options between building a wheelset yourself to having somone hand building them.

    At that point it is easy to pick your favorite rim and your favorite hub.

    I want to learn how to build wheelset eventually but do not have the time right now. (Patience and or Discipline)

    So when it boils down to it I either have someone build them or order a prebuilt set.
    and in the future I will take on a wheelbuilding endeavor.
    Just to be clear, when we say "don't buy pre-built wheels", we're not implying that you should personally build your own wheels. We are saying to not let Easton or Crank Brothers or Mavic build your wheels. We are saying, go find a reputable wheel builder (there are lots of them on this board), pick your components and let them build the wheels. If you're opposed to finding a wheel builder and going that route then A) I have yet to see a valid reason why you won't do that and B) you *will not* get the "cream of the crop". There is no single pre-built (Easton, Industry 9, Mavic, etc.) wheelset that has the best of everything. If you are OK with going to a wheel builder and specifying your parts, then my bad, I misunderstood.

    I have no idea why you would demand the "cream of the crop", then flatly refuse to buy carbon rims, then keep comparing alloy rims to Enve carbon rims (your comparison of Crossmax rims to Enves in post #30). You said yourself that you mainly ride XC, so I don't see the issue.

    I also don't see why you feel that Stan's rims are "not top of the line". They are among the best, and since there is no "the best" in anything, why is that not good enough? Don't like the stickers? Take them off. I see no appreciable reason why Industry 9's Enduro rim would be better than a Stan's Flow EX, for example. I also fail to see why Mavic anything is on your radar if you're looking for the best. Old school narrow internal rim width? Check. Hubs that are nowhere near as good as those available from DT Swiss, King, Hope, Hadley? Check. Proprietary parts galore? Check. Lots of marketing fluff that you seem to be buying into? Check. It seems that maybe you'd prefer a good looking wheel over one that actually performs better and has real-world benefits (stiffer/lighter from carbon rim, benefits provided by a wider internal width, etc.).
    Last edited by savechief; 10-10-2013 at 03:37 PM.

  33. #33
    ballbuster
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    Quote Originally Posted by toot334455 View Post
    I am aware of all of the options between building a wheelset yourself to having somone hand building them.

    At that point it is easy to pick your favorite rim and your favorite hub.

    I want to learn how to build wheelset eventually but do not have the time right now. (Patience and or Discipline)

    So when it boils down to it I either have someone build them or order a prebuilt set.
    and in the future I will take on a wheelbuilding endeavor.

    Some of the questions stem from the different features rims and wheelsets have.

    Take the crossmax's for example: they shave off extra weight on certain areas of the rim so it "accelerates faster". Does this feature have an advantage over the enves?

    Another point for analysis is the hubs the crossmax wheelsets come with. IF I were to build a wheelset or have someone build them for me I would def. go with king... but how does the crossmax hubs compare to the kings?

    I honestly hate Stans rims.. specifically the fact that it says "no-tubes" all over it.

    I under stand they are realiable and strong. but there not the top of the line.

    I do 100% understand the benefits of handbuilt vs. prebuilt.
    As far as Crossmax wheels go, do a Google search for 'Crossmax' and 'creak'. THe alu spokes are stiff and light, but tend to develop a creak once they get wet and dirty. If you develop any issues, you pretty much have to send them back to Mavic, who has questionable customer service.

    Plus, that Mavic hub is 24 point engagement for the freehub. Not bad, but not great. Chris King is 72 point.

    Yeah, find a good builder. Get good hubs and carbon hoops. Done. It won't be the absolute lightest thing out there, but it can be close. They will be super reliable and locally serviceable. As a bigger guy, I used alloy nipples for years, and had to constantly replace them as they cracked/broke/stripped. I switched to brass nipples and haven't looked back. They end up being 20g heavier per wheel, but put up with way more use and abuse. Plus, they don't corrode in the presence of a carbon rim. Less time fiddling with the bike, more time riding.

  34. #34
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    I know your not lovin on carbons but I would check out Nox Composites anyways.

    Nox Composites

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