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  1. #1
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    LB carbon rim and Hope Pro 2 = spoke length variance?

    So I'm building up a first wheelset of Light-Bicycle "wider" carbon rims and Hope Pro 2 Evo hubs, and I'm wondering if others who have done the same had to use a variety of spoke lengths?

    My spoke calculators give me 292 or 291. Any builders want to weigh in?

    By the way, the LB stated ERD of 603 was the same as my measurements.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    did you read the sticky?

    Wheelbuilding resources

    Wheels
    Put a mountain biker in a room with 2 bowling balls and we'll break one and lose the other - GelatiCruiser

  3. #3
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    Yes. I understand the general rules and concepts behind wheel building; also, I can measure and calculate and round up or down depending on lengths.

    However: I'm simply asking for specific experience with these rims and hubs because, in my experience, *experience* with the tools at hand, along with the annals of info compiled in sources such as those truly helpful stickies, has offered the most insight.

    Thus, I'm merely double-checking others' experience to pre-empt any problems that may arise in my own.

  4. #4
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    LB carbon rim and Hope Pro 2 = spoke length variance?

    So I'm building up a first wheelset of Light-Bicycle "wider" carbon rims and Hope Pro 2 Evo hubs, and I'm wondering if others who have done the same had to use a variety of spoke lengths?

    My spoke calculators give me 292 or 291. Any builders want to weigh in?

    By the way, the LB stated ERD of 603 was the same as my measurements.
    I will be building the same, just haven't ordered spokes yet, as I was waiting to make my own ERD measurement , as well. Also, waiting for new version of Hope hub with 40 tooth ratchet to arrive.

    My calculations for 32 spoke/3 cross pattern wheels:

    Front: 292.4L/294.3R
    Rear: 293.5L/293.0R

    I'm thinking I will just order one full box of 93 mm spokes, probably DT Swiss Supercomp.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by bisicklay View Post
    Yes. I understand the general rules and concepts behind wheel building; also, I can measure and calculate and round up or down depending on lengths.

    However: I'm simply asking for specific experience with these rims and hubs because, in my experience, *experience* with the tools at hand, along with the annals of info compiled in sources such as those truly helpful stickies, has offered the most insight.

    Thus, I'm merely double-checking others' experience to pre-empt any problems that may arise in my own.
    Nicely done sir! If that wasn't the most polite "go pound sand" response to a "do a search" or "check the sticky" answer I've EVER read!
    HAH!
    Naysayers never apologize. Critics go to their grave thinking everyone else is wrong.
    ╭∩╮( . )╭∩╮

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Nicely done sir! If that wasn't the most polite "go pound sand" response to a "do a search" or "check the sticky" answer I've EVER read!
    HAH!
    quite polite, but not helpful for himself.. most people who understand the concepts of wheel building, who ask for a check of their calculations, generally give the required information for said build. Are the lengths he calculated rounded or precise. When rounded, which way and how far were they rounded. Is he using standard 12mm nipples? 14 or 16? He also could have provided a screen shot from the spoke calculator to confirm all data was entered correctly..

    Just because someone hasnt used that exact combination doesnt mean a wheelbuilder with experience couldnt have given him the accurate answer he was asking for.
    Put a mountain biker in a room with 2 bowling balls and we'll break one and lose the other - GelatiCruiser

  7. #7
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    Thanks, and no sweat. Easy things. Benefits of doubts granted all around.

    Again, I'm simply checking to see if others' experience with these parts has yielded some insight that they could share to help me along with this build. This definitely needn't be restricted to spoke length, so my title is misleading.

    Guamjim,
    In both of our interests I'm including the input and results from DT Swiss' calculator. Are you using the same?

    Hope specs:

    Rear hub:
    Spoke PCD: Left 56, Right 54; Offset: Left 33, Right 20

    Front hub
    Spoke PCD: Left 56, Right 54; Offset: Left 20, Right 33

    Spoke hole diameter: 2.6mm.

    LB carbon rim and Hope Pro 2 = spoke length variance?-spoke-calculation-2.jpg

  8. #8
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    ^ I used prowheelbuilder.com, which gives different offsets than the ones that you have.

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    Same build here. Same Hope specs as OP. Aren't those correct as stated here:
    Hope Pro 2 and Hope Pro 2 EVO hub measurements - look here!

  10. #10
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    I always measure my hubs anyway. There was this one time where the online published measurements were wrong... on three different reputable websites for the same hub. Ever since then, I look them up and measure myself to be sure they are correctly published.

    And yeah, round down.

  11. #11
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    Updating here.

    I had a box of 100 293mm DT Competition, silver, brass nipples, so went ahead with the build... as a potential learning process, let's say. All came together, though the rear drive side almost bottomed out the threads, going for ~122 kgf.

    Of course, I'm concerned that once they bed in, I'll need to adjust, and run out of threads then... But so be it; I can replace those with 291, the way they should've been.

    My other concern is that, being on the drive side, those spokes with a few fewer threads to pull on will pull through. I'm hoping that the brass nips will hold what's there.

    And, if not, no sweat: rebuild.

  12. #12
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    I just finished a rear wheel build with Pro 2 Evo hub and LB Wider rims (603 ERD, per manufacturer, not actually measured), except I went with cx-ray spokes and alloy nipples. 32 spokes, 3-cross. I'm not certain, but as I recall I rounded down what several spoke calculator programs came up with (by between .5 and 1.5mm) and ordered 290mm drive side and 292mm for the nds. I brought spoke tension to around 120kgf on the drive side and almost bottomed out the threads, even though the spokes I was using were even shorter than the 293 you were using. Then again I expect some more stretch from the lighter cx-ray spokes, so it sounds about right. I never actually DID bottom out the threads, and the build went great, but the spokes were starting to poke through the top of the nipple, though not above the slot.

    I'll check my numbers once I get home, but I remember thinking I could have gone 2mm shorter on each, unless I was building with stouter spokes.

  13. #13
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    AKRoad, Just curious what your final wheelset came out weight wise? This sounds like a Nice wheelset!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by guamjim View Post
    ^ I used prowheelbuilder.com, which gives different offsets than the ones that you have.
    the Prowheelbuilder calculator is junk and will give you incorrect spoke lengths every time. Do not use it.
    Relevant example:
    The dimensions for a VERY common aftermarket hub (the Hope Pro II), which haven't changed in I don't know how many years, are incorrect in their database. How do you do that? Include a lawyer-authored disclaimer. BTW, included in the disclaimer is a reference to the calculation that is supposedly used. It is easy to follow with a calculator... and it is not what their calculator turns out.
    Their screwy locknut-to-flange dimension, which has to be converted to center-to-flange for the calculation, does not account for the difference.
    According to their database, the NDS offset is 17mm and the DS offset is 35mm on a Pro II front hub.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKRoad View Post
    I just finished a rear wheel build with Pro 2 Evo hub and LB Wider rims (603 ERD, per manufacturer, not actually measured), except I went with cx-ray spokes and alloy nipples. 32 spokes, 3-cross. I'm not certain, but as I recall I rounded down what several spoke calculator programs came up with (by between .5 and 1.5mm) and ordered 290mm drive side and 292mm for the nds. I brought spoke tension to around 120kgf on the drive side and almost bottomed out the threads, even though the spokes I was using were even shorter than the 293 you were using. Then again I expect some more stretch from the lighter cx-ray spokes, so it sounds about right. I never actually DID bottom out the threads, and the build went great, but the spokes were starting to poke through the top of the nipple, though not above the slot.

    I'll check my numbers once I get home, but I remember thinking I could have gone 2mm shorter on each, unless I was building with stouter spokes.
    Something sounds odd here.
    How do you know the threads were "almost bottomed out"? How far were they protruding from the ends of the nipples?
    I've built many Hope Pro II 29er wheels, including with LB Wide 29er rims (all measured at 603mm), and the 292mm & 291mm spoke lengths have all been spot on: spoke ends between the bottom of the nipple slot and the end of the nipple.
    Maybe you got a new process rim and the erd changed? It would have had to have been a significant change (4-5mm) for what you're describing to have happened.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  16. #16
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    Meltingfeather, you are probably right, I was not as close to bottoming out the threads as I was thinking. I prefer to see the spoke heads just reaching the bottom of the slot in the spoke heads, and these were about half-way between the bottom of the slot and the top of the nipple. If that counts as ideal, when then I was there.

    Concerning the weight of the wheels, my two rims weighed 375g and 393 g. I put the heavier rim on the back wheel, and when finished it weighed 889g, including the XD driver, one layer of Gorilla tape around the rim channel, and the rotor bolts, but not including a skewer or rotor. I didn't weight the front wheel as a whole but since I used the same spoke count, spokes, and nipples, we can subtract the differences in hub weight (159g) and rim weight (18g) and end up with 712g as a front wheel weight. So for the entire wheelset that would come to 1601g, and I'll bet that's within 10g of reality.

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