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  1. #1
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    I need help with 1x10 conversion

    Recently I was using a 34T e thirteen chainring in front attached to my Shimano XT M785 crank arm. This afternoon I changed the front ring to 32T Renthal Ultralite SR4. I noticed that the chain are not aligned, because of this the rotation of the drivetrain is not as smooth.

    Where can I get spacer?

  2. #2
    dvn
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    Why is your chainline different? You replaced a 34 with a 32. Chainline should not have changed unless you mounted the 32 differently. EX: front of the spider tabs vs. the rear.
    "Either way it doesn't really matter, I just got back from a bike ride."
    > dbhammercycle

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    How do I mount the renthal ultralite sr4. Is the label with "32T" needs to face towards the pedal?

  4. #4
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    Take it to a bike shop.

  5. #5
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    Duct tape iz like teh Force. It has a Lite side and a Dark side and it holdz the Universe together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    Take it to a bike shop.
    the last time I sent my bike to the bike shop they intentionally destroy my new xt caliper by over tightening the nibble; and new fox rear shox, because I did not bought those parts to them.

    Anyway, I also installed a new xt 11-36 cassette and kmc x10-L. I'm not too sure of the kmc x10-L cAn be use in mountain bike.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitzikatzi View Post
    Which size?

  8. #8
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    If your not happy with the "spacing" of your new chain ring. Did you try mounting it the other way around?

    I have no idea what size spacers you may need. You have the bike in front of you have a look at your chain-line take some measurements and choose the spacer width required.
    Duct tape iz like teh Force. It has a Lite side and a Dark side and it holdz the Universe together.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dvn View Post
    Why is your chainline different? You replaced a 34 with a 32. Chainline should not have changed unless you mounted the 32 differently. EX: front of the spider tabs vs. the rear.
    this
    Duct tape iz like teh Force. It has a Lite side and a Dark side and it holdz the Universe together.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rave81 View Post
    the last time I sent my bike to the bike shop they intentionally destroy my new xt caliper by over tightening the nibble; and new fox rear shox, because I did not bought those parts to them.
    Go to different bike shop then. You don't know what you're doing.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    Go to different bike shop then. You don't know what you're doing.
    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    Take it to a bike shop.
    Do you have a bike shop?

    My impression is that the OP want to take care of his problem himself...

  12. #12
    dvn
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjaakoo View Post
    Do you have a bike shop?

    My impression is that the OP want to take care of his problem himself...
    It sounds like maybe he does not have the mechanical aptitude.
    "Either way it doesn't really matter, I just got back from a bike ride."
    > dbhammercycle

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by rave81 View Post
    the last time I sent my bike to the bike shop they intentionally destroy my new xt caliper by over tightening the nibble;
    That damn nibble is tricky.. It will get ya every time...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjaakoo View Post
    Do you have a bike shop?

    My impression is that the OP want to take care of his problem himself...
    You're correct I want to fix the problem myself, coz another frustrating thing when I sent my bike to the bike shop it take them 2 weeks to fix it even though its only minor.

    I installed all the component in my bike and previously convert my drive train to 1x10 using e thirteen chainring and never experience this chainline alignment problem. Also this problem doesn't occurred with 33T renthal ultralite sr4 only in 32T.



    I fix/install my own bike component, why would I want to pay someone for $100aud, when I could fix it myself and save money. The only time I will send my bike to the lbs is fitting of bottom bracket and headset, coz I don't have tools to do that.

    Spacer is the answer for this problem, as mots suggested.

  15. #15
    dvn
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    Quote Originally Posted by rave81 View Post
    Also this problem doesn't occurred with 33T renthal ultralite sr4 only in 32T.
    I'm lost. This makes no sense.
    "Either way it doesn't really matter, I just got back from a bike ride."
    > dbhammercycle

  16. #16
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    I managed to fix the chain line alignment with a $2 stainless steal washer which I bought from a local hardware.I need help with 1x10 conversion-photo-3-.jpgI need help with 1x10 conversion-photo-2-.jpg

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjaakoo View Post
    Do you have a bike shop?

    My impression is that the OP want to take care of his problem himself...
    No I don't personally own a bike shop. I understand the OP wants to do it himself; however, he doesn't have the ability or skills so he should take it to a bike shop. He probably is that guy that always shows up at the bike shop with broken parts because he tried to install it himself and failed.

    Installing parts for a customer is one thing; having to undo their failed attempt to install and figure out where it went wrong is another much more annoying thing to do that keeps bike shop people from liking the OP.

    This problem is an example. How would the chain line change if they are both 10sp rings? That chain line likely changed because that is not a 10sp chain ring and though it should be fine since it's 1x but it's not the ideal situation and bike shop people don't like fudging it because some racer got his ultimate chain ring online on a huge discount and needs it for a race in 10hrs.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    No I don't personally own a bike shop. I understand the OP wants to do it himself; however, he doesn't have the ability or skills so he should take it to a bike shop. He probably is that guy that always shows up at the bike shop with broken parts because he tried to install it himself and failed.

    Installing parts for a customer is one thing; having to undo their failed attempt to install and figure out where it went wrong is another much more annoying thing to do that keeps bike shop people from liking the OP.

    This problem is an example. How would the chain line change if they are both 10sp rings? That chain line likely changed because that is not a 10sp chain ring and though it should be fine since it's 1x but it's not the ideal situation and bike shop people don't like fudging it because some racer got his ultimate chain ring online on a huge discount and needs it for a race in 10hrs.

    I disagree with you. I know what I'm doing I've been building my own bikes for almost) years. The Renthal ultralite SR is fully compatible with 1x10 and its specific use for 1x10 speed setup according to their website.

    i solved the chain line problem by installing a washer as I posted above.

  19. #19
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    You say that you fixed the chainline alignment problem with some washers, but you never state if "fixing" the chainline solved the real problem, which was a drivetrain that wasn't smooth. So to recap:

    34T e.thirteen ring -> Everything OK
    33T Renthal Ultralite SR4 -> Everything OK
    32T Renthal Ultralite SR4 -> Drivetrain not smooth

    I have no idea when chronologically you tried the 33T Renthal ring, but based on your posts, the move to the 32T Renthal wasn't the only variable that you changed that led to the unsmooth drivetrain. You stated that you also installed an XT cassette and KMC chain, which could be a cause since the chain and cassette haven't had a chance to wear in together yet. I find it hard to believe that a shift of a couple millimeters using washers solved all the issues, and that a difference of one tooth on otherwise identical Renthal rings could be the source of the problem. Here are my questions...

    1) The lack of smoothness with the 32T Renthal, was it in all gears?
    2) Was there any rubbing on your chain guide with the 32T Renthal?
    3) Now that you've used the washers, is the drivetrain as objectively smooth as it was with the 34T e.thirteen ring?

    The chain is rarely straight in a 1x10 setup to begin with, so I just don't buy the chainline being off as the root cause of the problem.

  20. #20
    dvn
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    Quote Originally Posted by savechief View Post
    You say that you fixed the chainline alignment problem with some washers, but you never state if "fixing" the chainline solved the real problem, which was a drivetrain that wasn't smooth. So to recap:

    34T e.thirteen ring -> Everything OK
    33T Renthal Ultralite SR4 -> Everything OK
    32T Renthal Ultralite SR4 -> Drivetrain not smooth

    I have no idea when chronologically you tried the 33T Renthal ring, but based on your posts, the move to the 32T Renthal wasn't the only variable that you changed that led to the unsmooth drivetrain. You stated that you also installed an XT cassette and KMC chain, which could be a cause since the chain and cassette haven't had a chance to wear in together yet. I find it hard to believe that a shift of a couple millimeters using washers solved all the issues, and that a difference of one tooth on otherwise identical Renthal rings could be the source of the problem. Here are my questions...

    1) The lack of smoothness with the 32T Renthal, was it in all gears?
    2) Was there any rubbing on your chain guide with the 32T Renthal?
    3) Now that you've used the washers, is the drivetrain as objectively smooth as it was with the 34T e.thirteen ring?

    The chain is rarely straight in a 1x10 setup to begin with, so I just don't buy the chainline being off as the root cause of the problem.
    Exactly! There should be no need to shim a chain ring a couple of mm on a 1x10 drivetrain. Like I said before, it just doesn't make sense. The OP may be able to work on his bikes but I don't believe he understands the mechanics of it.
    "Either way it doesn't really matter, I just got back from a bike ride."
    > dbhammercycle

  21. #21
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    It may relate to the chainring alignment with the chainguide?

  22. #22
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    That's what it appears to me. Instead of adjusting the chain guide, it looks like he shimmed his chainring to keep it from rubbing his chain guide. Chainline doesn't matter with a 1x10 as you are going to have a bad chainline most of the time. Or I guess you could have a 1x10 and just not shift into the smallest 4 gears and largest 4 gears and feel good about your chainline.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooclosetosee View Post
    That's what it appears to me. Instead of adjusting the chain guide, it looks like he shimmed his chainring to keep it from rubbing his chain guide. Chainline doesn't matter with a 1x10 as you are going to have a bad chainline most of the time. Or I guess you could have a 1x10 and just not shift into the smallest 4 gears and largest 4 gears and feel good about your chainline.
    thats what I thought when I saw the picture... he shimmed the ring gear inwards, which could only mean only the chainguide really needed adjusting.

    Or maybe it was that nibble again..

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooclosetosee View Post
    That's what it appears to me. Instead of adjusting the chain guide, it looks like he shimmed his chainring to keep it from rubbing his chain guide. Chainline doesn't matter with a 1x10 as you are going to have a bad chainline most of the time. Or I guess you could have a 1x10 and just not shift into the smallest 4 gears and largest 4 gears and feel good about your chainline.
    Is chainline any better with the 1x11 system from Sram or is chainline simply an issue yo have to be okay with on a 1x10 or 1x11 system.

  25. #25
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    Chainline on a 1x10 and 1x11 will be equally non-optimal. The chainring would ideally align with the 6th cog on the cassette for a 1x11, which would put it at an angle for all other cogs, with the largest and smallest having the worst chainline. I'm running 1x10 and to me, the chainline is not an issue at all.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by savechief View Post
    You say that you fixed the chainline alignment problem with some washers, but you never state if "fixing" the chainline solved the real problem, which was a drivetrain that wasn't smooth. So to recap:

    34T e.thirteen ring -> Everything OK
    33T Renthal Ultralite SR4 -> Everything OK
    32T Renthal Ultralite SR4 -> Drivetrain not smooth

    I have no idea when chronologically you tried the 33T Renthal ring, but based on your posts, the move to the 32T Renthal wasn't the only variable that you changed that led to the unsmooth drivetrain. You stated that you also installed an XT cassette and KMC chain, which could be a cause since the chain and cassette haven't had a chance to wear in together yet. I find it hard to believe that a shift of a couple millimeters using washers solved all the issues, and that a difference of one tooth on otherwise identical Renthal rings could be the source of the problem. Here are my questions...

    1) The lack of smoothness with the 32T Renthal, was it in all gears?
    2) Was there any rubbing on your chain guide with the 32T Renthal?
    3) Now that you've used the washers, is the drivetrain as objectively smooth as it was with the 34T e.thirteen ring?

    The chain is rarely straight in a 1x10 setup to begin with, so I just don't buy the chainline being off as the root cause of the problem.

    The 32T wasn't smooth to run when the rear cog is at 36, it is very obvious that it wasn't aligned. It was rubbing the chainguide and the position of the chain it out of place, because of this, the chain derailed or shift downwards.

    In my measurement at least 2mm out of alignment. I reversed the installation of the Renthal ultralite SR4 by facing the machined label towards the pedal and installing 1mm of waster.

    The misalignment occurs even without the chain guide and it doesn't run smoothly prior to the installation of the washer.

    Yes you are correct the after installing the washer it is smooth as the 33T and 34T. I don't have any issues with 33T and 34T even using it without washer and with the new cassette and chain.

    Anyway here has experience with Wolf tooth chainring, whats your verdict? I read in some forum that it doesn't require chain guide.

    I am also thinking to convert my Yeti SB-66 to a XX1, to those who used the XX1 more than 6 months how durable and long lasting are the XX1 cassette and carbon crank arms and do you really need to use specific DT swiss rear hub to be able to use the XX1 cassette?

  27. #27
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    I'm running an XX1 front chainring and an 1x10 with an XT RD with a clutch and it's been good so far for 500 miles. The clutch is what keeps the chain tension high and keeps it from bouncing off. There are many others than Wolf Tooth who are doing the XX1 big/small tooth chainrings with taller tooth profile. Raceface is another. They are all going to be even numbered tooth rings.

    If you are going to use XX1 then you have to have a freehub that will accept the small 10th cog. Different hub manufacturers for different hubs make them. I9, DT-Swiss, Roval, SRAM, Hope.

    Do you need the XX1 range in your area? Only you can answer that question. In my area (midwest) and with my fitness level I don't think it is necessary. I told myself that I would start thinking about it if there was a climb that I couldn't do on my 1x10.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Pride View Post
    Is chainline any better with the 1x11 system from Sram or is chainline simply an issue yo have to be okay with on a 1x10 or 1x11 system.
    Chainline only really matters on a SS. I cross-chain all the time and with a correctly set up bike I haven't dropped a chain or had any issues. Whenever I do it is usually only for a few seconds. In other words, I will run big ring / big cog for a short period rather than drop to the little chainring and then have to go back to the big ring. All that shifting takes time and you can't put a lot of force in the pedals during shifting. If it is a long climb then I will drop to the small ring.

    I think some people overreact about cross-chaining.

  29. #29
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    I had to replace worn out drive train parts on my xxl Turner Sultan and decided I wanted to go 1x10. XX1 upgrade was just too expensive. I had a 9 speed cassette and shifter so I replaced the rear derailleur and shifter and went with the 11-36 cassette and a 30T WolfTooth chain ring. It's awesome, a bit more work uphill but not too hard.

    The wide/narrow WT ring works great when combined with a clutch rear derailleur. I did all the work myself and am happy with the results, despite not fully understanding things like 48mm versus 50mm alignment, I may have to look at my rear D and see if I can improve its alignment, but it shifts just fine and never just jumps down a cog. I got the sense (sound) initially that the chain was on the verge of ghost shifting, but that feeling has gone away.

    I have no chain guide and have done 1 short ride that had some rattling stutter bumps in it with the clutch off, by mistake. I only realized that after the ride and answered my question as to why I heard so much chain slap. But still, no dropped chain! With the clutch on I don't even think of dropping the chain, I don't think it will happen. I've done some great trails with a lot of ups and downs and even took some small jumps and just enjoy the ride.

    1x10 is great, perhaps a bit noisier ( when you can actually listen, mostly in the bike stand ) because of chain line angle in the extremes and the wide teeth on the chain ring, but it's kind of a reassuring solid engagement mechanical sound. I recommend the WolfTooth rings.

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