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  1. #1
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    high quality wheelset is the best upgrade you can make to the bike

    little background
    currently ride a 2011 gary fisher xcaliber
    stock wheels are Shimano M525 hubs on Bontrager rims and tires

    just changed to:

    Front Hadley 9mm Thru-Bolt, stans arch ex 32 hole, 3 cross double butted spokes, and kenda nevegal 2.2 tires set up tubless

    Rear Hadley 10mm Thru-Bolt, stans flow 36 hole, 4 cross double butted spokes , and racing ralph 2.25 tires tubeless

    I just came back from my first ride on the new wheels
    holy sh*t, I can't believe this is the same bike
    It is way faster, even the parts where i just coast downhill i gain way more speed because the wheels are so smooth. The 72 point engagement of the hub is very noticeable nearly instant. I didn't expect to see that much of a difference in stiffness, boy was i wrong, the new wheels allow me to hold a tighter line, I get more feedback from the bars and rear end. It is really confidence inspiring. With no other changes other than wheels and tires I found myself consistently in a higher gear because i could carry more speed. Even the cheap juicy brakes felt stronger.

    Special thanks to Larry at Ghisallo Wheels - Custom Wheels for building me a killer set of wheels at a fantastic price.






  2. #2
    get down!
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    Looking good!
    Rudy Projects look ridiculous

    visit my blog, BEATS, BIKES & LIFE

  3. #3
    "THE RIDE IS MY CHURCH"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan GSR View Post
    little background
    currently ride a 2011 gary fisher xcaliber
    stock wheels are Shimano M525 hubs on Bontrager rims and tires

    just changed to:

    Front Hadley 9mm Thru-Bolt, stans arch ex 32 hole, 3 cross double butted spokes, and kenda nevegal 2.2 tires set up tubless

    Rear Hadley 10mm Thru-Bolt, stans flow 36 hole, 4 cross double butted spokes , and racing ralph 2.25 tires tubeless

    I just came back from my first ride on the new wheels
    holy sh*t, I can't believe this is the same bike
    It is way faster, even the parts where i just coast downhill i gain way more speed because the wheels are so smooth. The 72 point engagement of the hub is very noticeable nearly instant. I didn't expect to see that much of a difference in stiffness, boy was i wrong, the new wheels allow me to hold a tighter line, I get more feedback from the bars and rear end. It is really confidence inspiring. With no other changes other than wheels and tires I found myself consistently in a higher gear because i could carry more speed. Even the cheap juicy brakes felt stronger.

    Special thanks to Larry at Ghisallo Wheels - Custom Wheels for building me a killer set of wheels at a fantastic price.





    It's great when changes Kick A$$ !!! Nice Ride !!!
    ENJOY THE RIDE!!!

  4. #4
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    Looking good!

    I just picked up a pair of Chris King with Flow in 15mm front, 9mm rear.

    I have been riding on a 200 dollar pair of Sun-Ringle High Rollers until now. I cant wait to feel the difference.

  5. #5
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    I have an '09 X-caliber with boat anchor Bonty wheels, and was thinking of an upgrade along these lines.

    Did the thru-bolt make much of a noticeable difference?
    And are the hubs super loud? I can't stand bike noise. Quieter is better IMO

  6. #6
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    i can't tell if it is the bolt thru ,or the wheel itself, but these are a lot stiffer and respond to inputs much better than my old wheels with skewers

    and the thing that surprised me was how quiet the rear hub is, quieter than the original shimano. From watching videos on youtube i was expecting it to be loud

  7. #7
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    this is my pet peeve - stock wheels worth ~ $100-$200 on $2000-$3000 bikes. The bike industry in general does this. looking at a Giant anthem x 29er - $2400. Stock wheels are ridiculously heavy and worth literally $100.

  8. #8
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    because most novices look at the rear dérailleur when shopping for a new bike

  9. #9
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    Noob question: Is thru-bolt the same as thru-axle? Were any changes required to the dropouts?

    I have a AL Elite, and guy with the same bike but I9 wheels let me ride his. Just around the picnic area at the park, but NOTICIBLE difference.

    Thanks.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisF View Post
    Noob question: Is thru-bolt the same as thru-axle? Were any changes required to the dropouts?.
    thru axle requires a different frame or fork
    thru bolt will work with any bike that uses a standard quick release system

  11. #11
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    I just picked up some Vuelta Zerolites for my Nimble 9 build. I couldnt pass on
    the price. USA made was an incentive.

  12. #12
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    Nice! You are right. Wheels make a huge difference.

  13. #13
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    Nice build.

    However, my only question is why go with the Flow with a 4 cross on the rear? Kinda overkill IMO.

  14. #14
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    there is no such thing as overkill (is there?)!


    L.R.

  15. #15
    Rod
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    I know what you mean. The bike accelerates much easier with a lighter wheelset. It felt like I owned a different bike when I got my new wheels.
    There is not much choice between rotten apples.

  16. #16
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    Rear is over built on purpose. I don't race. 200 lbs. And want a wheel set to last forever

  17. #17
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    This week I'm picking up a set of Chris King/ Flows that my LBS built up for me for my Transition Bandit 29. I can't wait! I've never had a "nice" set of wheels before and I'm really excited

  18. #18
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    Couldnt agree more with this thread

    just replaced stock Giant P-XC2 wheelset on my 29er Anthem X1. Ran a little too low pressure tubeless, and bent the rim/bead flying over a rock garden

    Replaced with:

    Hope Pro 2 Evo hubs
    DT Swiss 14/15 double butted
    Stans Arch EX

    Also went with Ardent 2.4 frt and Ikon Exo 2.2 rear

    Just rode the kokopelli trail - Fruita to Moab - 145 miles as my first ride after setup

    one word - Awesome!

    not an issue, noticeably faster and lighter and the tire combo was perfect without a nudge !!

  19. #19
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    2nd best upgrade

    I have always maintained this to be the best upgrade for any bike. Most bikes come with low end wheels. As someone mentioned, people look at derailleurs or cranks and shifters, but wheels = rotational weight.

    It is expensive to get a nice pair of wheels and light tires to match, but best bang for you buck.

    Best overall upgrade is your saddle, especially if your arse will be sittin on it for 6 plus hours.
    You cannot go against nature, because when you do, its part of nature too.

  20. #20
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    I disagree, best upgrades to your bike you can make are:

    1) tires that match your area, conditions and riding style (too many people take tires for granted)
    2) good brakes

  21. #21
    Rod
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBaker View Post
    I disagree, best upgrades to your bike you can make are:

    1) tires that match your area, conditions and riding style (too many people take tires for granted)
    2) good brakes
    brakes? I try not to use mine!

    In all seriousness it's great to have a good brake when you need it.
    There is not much choice between rotten apples.

  22. #22
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    Glad to hear that your happy with your new custom wheels. Did you get a chance to weigh your stock wheels....Mustangs right? If so, was there a weight savings?

  23. #23
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    Also, the Mustang rims are offset (spokes not in the middle) so that you don't need to change the amount of dish to accomodate the cassette so much -- supposed to make a stronger wheel as I understand it.

    Is this feature desirable? I don't see it offered in Stan's rims.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by DennisF; 05-09-2012 at 06:55 PM.

  24. #24
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    I have Hadleys and Flows .... Worth every penny.

    This grease is perfect for the bearings in the hub & freehub.

    Triflow or any teflon based oil is fine for the pawls &/or the hub teeth. (don't use grease in that area)

    More maintenance info here: Hadley Hub Service Guide by Go-Ride.com

  25. #25
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    Having just replaced the real crappy Avids with new xts, a new wheelset and new tire combo all at the same time I actually agree - not sure if Id put the tires as described #1 or good brakes, but would actually state that IF you dont have good brakes, that might be a the best mechanical upgrade - tires - if they dont work for what your riding - well - that can ruin a ride - wheels - become more of a nice to have upgrade but can also change the bike - just like putting light weight wheels on a performance motorcycle/racebike - it can be dramatic in terms of performance and durability my slight tweak:

    Must haves (upgrades) -
    1a - the correct and good tires for conditions and riding style
    1b - Brakes

    Nice to haves (upgrades)
    1 - wheels
    2 - some really sweet stickers that make the bike look better and go waaaay faster -

  26. #26
    JRR
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    My best upgrades to a bike that has the right geometry for intent and that is fit for my body size and weight is 1-seat 2-grips 3- pedals .Comfort and fit on your bike will let you put way more power down ,climb,descend and handle better .I upgrade parts that help me get fit on the bike.Tires then wheels next assumming you allready have a good drivetrain to turn them and good brakes to stop them.But yes your right,you will notice alot of a good wheelset

  27. #27
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    So, is it likely that 'better' wheels will make more of a difference for a heavy (200+) rider, than a light (say 165) rider?

    Like less deformation, better rolling hubs etc?

  28. #28
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    I'm 195lbs and noticed a big change
    my buddy who is 120 said he also noticed it when he changed to easton havens

  29. #29
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    Subscribed for new wheels for my x-cal. Inspired!

    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

  30. #30
    WTB 29 allmountain wheels
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    I'm being forced to buy new wheels as my first upgrade since the originals are now bent too badly to avoid rubbing for one ride. This thready is very encouraging! I'm probably going 36H DT Swiss huhs and Flows. I'm only 170 or so but like the OP, I want a wheelset that's going to last a long time and take a beating.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmarolf View Post
    this is my pet peeve - stock wheels worth ~ $100-$200 on $2000-$3000 bikes. The bike industry in general does this. looking at a Giant anthem x 29er - $2400. Stock wheels are ridiculously heavy and worth literally $100.
    LOL I just got back from the LBS looking at some bikes noticing the trend. Was thinking OK if I buy this bike how much can I sell the wheels for? Then apply funds covering a small portion of the upgrade.

  32. #32
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    I just bought a stock 2013 Specialized Camber Comp Carbon 29er. It has Roval 29 rims and Specialized HI Lo hubs. Anyone know how much weight I could save by getting a nice wheelset or is what I have the best I can get without getting carbon. I weigh about 185-190 lbs and ride XC with some light AM riding as well.

  33. #33
    ballbuster
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    Agreed,

    a few months ago, I got a set of the Light-Bicycle carbon AM rims, and laced them up. Big improvement.

    Lighter, and more importantly, stiffer. The bike feels way more point and shoot than my WTB SpeedDisc wheelset they replaced. When pounding over baby heads, I don't feel as if the bike is going to shoot out from under me nearly as much.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by client_9 View Post
    I have Hadleys and Flows .... Worth every penny.

    This grease is perfect for the bearings in the hub & freehub.

    Triflow or any teflon based oil is fine for the pawls &/or the hub teeth. (don't use grease in that area)

    More maintenance info here: Hadley Hub Service Guide by Go-Ride.com
    I would put Hope Evo II's on this list as well. They are fine hubs. I have DT swiss 240's on my other bikes and find the hopes just as good.
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  35. #35
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    Only problem is then you can never go back, which is very bad for your retirement account. If you want to hold on to your money, do NOT try a set of Enve wheels.

  36. #36
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    I put a set of CHEAP 29er wheels on my Stumpjumper ht frame. They were the fore mentioned Veulta Zerolites from eBay. They weighed 2340g. Paid $160
    So I loved the frame and upgraded the wheels to a set of WTB i19 laced to DT Swiss 350 hubs -> 1700g. Big weight savings! Paid $350 used like new condition.

    You would think that I'd be able to feel a huge difference in acceleration, stiffness, stability, well I didn't ,lol. The new wheels rock but I don't feel the inherent things I was expecting. The big difference came down to build quality and materials which weighed in better for the lighter set of wheels.

    I say use your stock wheels till those crap hubs self destruct, then upgrade your wheels.
    I'm GNARcissistic

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demodude View Post

    You would think that I'd be able to feel a huge difference in acceleration, stiffness, stability, well I didn't ,lol. The new wheels rock but I don't feel the inherent things I was expecting. The big difference came down to build quality and materials which weighed in better for the lighter set of wheels.
    Very interesting. I'm not doubting you at all, but I'm surprised. When I dropped similar weight and upgraded components with a wheelset swap, it was a very noticable difference in acceleration. Just proves that all these changes are very rider sensitive; what happens with one rider might not be the case with another...

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by GnarBrahWyo View Post
    I just bought a stock 2013 Specialized Camber Comp Carbon 29er. It has Roval 29 rims and Specialized HI Lo hubs. Anyone know how much weight I could save by getting a nice wheelset or is what I have the best I can get without getting carbon. I weigh about 185-190 lbs and ride XC with some light AM riding as well.
    As someone else said, if you are satisfied with the ride then you can ride these wheels until they lose tension and/or the rear hub fails. My son uses the stock, basic Roval alloy rim on his 2012 Stumpjumper Carbon HT, and likes them a lot after 1000 miles or so. But he is very skinny. You would save some weight and add stiffness with a handbuilt Stan's Arch wheelset, but you might not notice a major difference, depending on your weight and riding style. I am heavier (210 lbs) and like to bomb downhill on my 29er HT and wanted a stiffer and wider wheel and switched to handbuilt Stan's Flows with DT 350 hubs, Prolock nipples and DT 2.0/1.8 butted spokes; slight weight savings but major improvement in stiffness and stability.

    I also am a believer in handbuilt wheels. A good wheelbuilder will provide not only a perfectly true wheel but one that is perfectly tensioned and has the right spokes and nipples for your weight and riding style as well, so it will stay true and be more durable. You just don't get the same level of quality with machine-built wheels.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by GnarBrahWyo View Post
    I just bought a stock 2013 Specialized Camber Comp Carbon 29er. It has Roval 29 rims and Specialized HI Lo hubs. Anyone know how much weight I could save by getting a nice wheelset or is what I have the best I can get without getting carbon. I weigh about 185-190 lbs and ride XC with some light AM riding as well.
    The Hi/Lo rear hub is a low grade 2 pawl JoiTech built unit. I think about 365g. I wouldn't use it to build a wheel. Specialized doesn't try to sell the plain Rovals on their site.
    Front hubs aren't much beyond sealed bearings when compared to a rear. If it weighed less than 165g or so you could reuse it with better rims and spokes to save maybe $70-80.
    ArchEx rims weigh 450g and are 21mm wide inside the beads. The beads are a little shorter with less hook than the past model. Crests are 21mm inside, 380g and do not have the reinforcement of the Arch.

  40. #40
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    Only about six weeks into 29er heaven, (Felt Nine Trail) but here's my input. I'm 66, and don't do a lot of long rides, (5-10 miles on single track usually) but I play around a lot with trials-like stuff. The 29 fits me so much better that even though smaller wheels are better at this stuff, my 29 is more fun because it fits my 6'2"/195 self so much better.

    In the slow going, tight-turn stuff I don't get the response out of my stock wheels that I do with my 26". (I know it's entry level stuff).... I can feel the flex, even after tuning the spokes. I would imagine that I would notice a lot more strength out of a better set of wheels?? Especially when twisting sharply through obstacles, etc.??

  41. #41
    Trail Tire TV on blogger
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    Quote Originally Posted by midnight340 View Post
    Only about six weeks into 29er heaven, (Felt Nine Trail) but here's my input. I'm 66, and don't do a lot of long rides, (5-10 miles on single track usually) but I play around a lot with trials-like stuff. The 29 fits me so much better that even though smaller wheels are better at this stuff, my 29 is more fun because it fits my 6'2"/195 self so much better.

    In the slow going, tight-turn stuff I don't get the response out of my stock wheels that I do with my 26". (I know it's entry level stuff).... I can feel the flex, even after tuning the spokes. I would imagine that I would notice a lot more strength out of a better set of wheels?? Especially when twisting sharply through obstacles, etc.??
    Stronger wheel set.. yes... also maybe wider... often time I hear people complain about wheel "flex" and it's actually just a narrow rim with a wide tire, add the overly low tire pressures we all like to use these days, ..... the tire is what's flexing...

    but all things proper.. yes a stronger/better wheel set will be noticeable.
    Going to try and bring Trail Tire TV back. go take a look... http://trailtiretv.blogspot.com/

  42. #42
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    I understand about the tire flex and appreciate the thoughts on wider rims... (A wheel set is not in my budget just yet but will be in the future.)

    About the flex I feel in tight turns..... The thing is, I just went out and put a tape measure across between the forks (rigid) and I can grab each fork leg, shove my thumbs against the rim from both sides and flex the wheel/rim about 1/8" off center each way. Nearly 1/4" flex... (as I said, the spokes seem pretty tight to me....)

    I do have strong hands, but should this be possible???

  43. #43
    Trail Tire TV on blogger
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    Quote Originally Posted by midnight340 View Post
    I understand about the tire flex and appreciate the thoughts on wider rims... (A wheel set is not in my budget just yet but will be in the future.)

    About the flex I feel in tight turns..... The thing is, I just went out and put a tape measure across between the forks (rigid) and I can grab each fork leg, shove my thumbs against the rim from both sides and flex the wheel/rim about 1/8" off center each way. Nearly 1/4" flex... (as I said, the spokes seem pretty tight to me....)

    I do have strong hands, but should this be possible???
    not good, but not out of the norm... probably more like axle/bearing flex tho..?
    Going to try and bring Trail Tire TV back. go take a look... http://trailtiretv.blogspot.com/

  44. #44
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    I wondered about that... it did seem like that is where it was coming from. Anything I can do about that???

  45. #45
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    Cup and cone bearings (mostly Shimano hubs) you can get cone wrenches and adjust them.. sealed bearing hubs.... replace bearings or............ get a new hub
    Going to try and bring Trail Tire TV back. go take a look... http://trailtiretv.blogspot.com/

  46. #46
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    Thanks, I'll check it out, see if I can adjust. Or I wait for a good wheelset.
    I bought the bike for the frame/handling.... knowing I'd want to upgrade ...even tho that's not the cheapest way to go, it IS the way to get the combination of parts that I want. And the fun of choosing them! :-)

    (edit: would higher quality skewers add some strength without much expense? Seems like it would help?)

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by midnight340 View Post
    Thanks, I'll check it out, see if I can adjust. Or I wait for a good wheelset.
    I bought the bike for the frame/handling.... knowing I'd want to upgrade ...even tho that's not the cheapest way to go, it IS the way to get the combination of parts that I want. And the fun of choosing them! :-)

    (edit: would higher quality skewers add some strength without much expense? Seems like it would help?)
    Skewers have very little to do with it, they are inside the axle which is what supports the wheel... the skewer is just a clamp... thou a cheapo heavy steel skewer might help.. expensive one are just going to be lighter and in most cases wimpier
    Going to try and bring Trail Tire TV back. go take a look... http://trailtiretv.blogspot.com/

  48. #48
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    Duh.... OK, got it. I have been riding an 80's 26" BMX looptail most of the recent decades, and it has Phil Woods hubs (bmx) with hex head bolts.... no quick release.

    Threads like this are very helpful, and I can see that upgrading the wheel set might do more for the bike than any other single change.

  49. #49
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    thanks to this thread I now have a Christmas wish list. I am riding with the standard Bontrager Mustang 29s at the moment with what I now understand to be pleb spec M525 hubs, and reading this thread has made me start shopping!

    Just a question though, I was settled on Hope Pro 2 Evo hubs, Arch EX rims 32H, but the current setup has a 28H front and 32H rear... is the 32H Arch EX overkill up front? I ride some pretty rocky singletrack, but the Mustangs haven't been an issue yet. Just wondering whether 28H Crest front and 32H Arch rear would be a better match.

    Any other suggestions in a similar price range would be appreciated, the Hadley hubs in the OP look good but they're a little pricey. Also spokes, other than double butted is there anything to look out for?

  50. #50
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    How much do you weigh?

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