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  1. #1
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    Demand for Chinese carbon "no bead hook" rims?

    Apologies if this has been posted, but couldn't find it in the massive Chinese carbon rim thread.

    So I asked a rep from lightbicycle.com about making a 29er rim similar to the 2013 carbon Rovals that have been getting a lot of press lately. Basically a version of their wider AM rim built without bead hooks, which apparently makes it stronger and cheaper to manufacture.

    She said they can do it, and the factory has already produced a set. They are just waiting to see if the design will be popular.

    So what do you all think? Is there demand? I definitely would try a set, especially if it built a stronger and cheaper wheel. I figure if there is demand, I'll let them know. Thanks.

  2. #2
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    I'd rather have them build a set of tubulars, like the DT Swiss 950T rims.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    I'd rather have them build a set of tubulars, like the DT Swiss 950T rims.
    Same, I would buy China carbon tubular 29er wheels in an instant.

  4. #4
    ijd
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    I'm going to buy a set of wheels from then in the next few months as I'm building a new bike up. I was looking at the all mountain wheel they have but may go the beadless rims. Just have to wait and see what other people say about them.

  5. #5
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    I'd like to see a wider inner rim dimension like 26mm or more. I would buy some rims right away if that happened.

  6. #6
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    Thanks all! I'll share this with them. I would also jump on a wider inner rim dimension..

    I thought there'd be a little more interest in some knock offs of the new Roval Control 29's.. but maybe the tech is a little unproven...? Hard to wade through the hype, but a rim without a bead hook makes sense to me...

    I'll post back if they let me order a set of custom hookless rims...

  7. #7
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    O.K I'll ask not what's a bead hook (but I wouldn't mind a pic) but why no bead hook? Should I assume you are riding tubeless?

    Thanks,

    Hank

  8. #8
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    Sorry, yes a bead hook is the inner "lip" common on mountain bike rims. It matches the tire bead, which is the thicker ring on the inner circumference of the tire.

    The new specialized roval carbon rims do away with the bead hook. This allows them to have a thicker rim wall, strengthening a part of the rim that is prone to failure, and to use simpler manufacturing methods, driving down costs.

    I'd like to try out the technology, but not at specialized's price point.. This thread is meant to find out if there is demand for lightbicycle to produce a hookless version of their carbon rims... Hope that helps!

  9. #9
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    I agree the spesh wheels pricing is over the top. Don't think I could actually enjoy putting them through what mtb wheels go through. I have read a few articles about them and find the idea compelling. I would like the opportunity to try a light bicycle version.
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  10. #10
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    Correct me if I'm wrong but, I thought that the LB rims were hookless, that the use of Bonty rim strips is what facilitated them running tubeless.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrat2010 View Post
    Apologies if this has been posted, but couldn't find it in the massive Chinese carbon rim thread.

    So I asked a rep from lightbicycle.com about making a 29er rim similar to the 2013 carbon Rovals that have been getting a lot of press lately. Basically a version of their wider AM rim built without bead hooks, which apparently makes it stronger and cheaper to manufacture.

    She said they can do it, and the factory has already produced a set. They are just waiting to see if the design will be popular.

    So what do you all think? Is there demand? I definitely would try a set, especially if it built a stronger and cheaper wheel. I figure if there is demand, I'll let them know. Thanks.
    I wonder if Specialized filed a patent on it, even though this is the way all rims were made up up to about 40 years ago?

  12. #12
    ijd
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    It wouldn't matter if Specialized held a patent on the rims as it won't affect a Chinese company. The Chinese carbon dual suspension frames all have the fsr rear end.

  13. #13
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    Demand for Chinese carbon "no bead hook" rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by ijd View Post
    It wouldn't matter if Specialized held a patent on the rims as it won't affect a Chinese company. The Chinese carbon dual suspension frames all have the fsr rear end.
    There are worldwide patents, and US patents. If Spec obtained a worldwide patent it would apply to a Chinese company. If it was just a US patent it would apply for rims sold in/to the US no matter where they were made.
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  14. #14
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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    Thanks for the explanation jrat and forum members. I've been dealing with going tubeless on both my wife's and my bike. Have not gone CF on our MTBs because they are both entry level Specialized bikes so no CF wheels. I purchased a Shimano WH-MT65F UST 26" wheelset for her for well under $200. They are just beautiful straight-pull spoke wheels. I tried mounting a pair of Continental Trail King 2.2 tires I got from performance with Stan's Sealant. One tire holds air beautifully the other required a tube. I believe she should buy a pair of Captain Control 2-Bliss tires. Even though I've heard that UST tires are "much heavier" I'm not sure that UST rims and 2-Bliss tires aren't "good enough". What do you guys think ?

    Tomorrow my Stan's Arch Ex 29er wheelset with XT hubs should arrive. I'm planning to attempt the installation myself. I picked up a small 120 volt tire inflator from Home Depot and hope it'll be enough to jump-start 29er tire installation that I've heard can be tricky. The Stan's wheelset is around 1600g. I'm not sure what my stock Alex wheels weigh yet. I'll be eliminating tubes and tire liners so I'm betting that's around 2lbs of rotational mass I'll be loosing plus whatever the difference between the Alex build and the Stan's wheelbuild is. So maybe I'm guessing I'll save 2.5-3.0 lbs or so.

    I know this thread is dedicated to "beadless" carbon rims, and correct me if I'm wrong but both the Shimano WH-MT65F and the Arch Ex wheels are aluminum with "bead hooks"

    I look forward to the day I build a China CF Full Suspension MTB I'm not there yet but alwys love to hear what you guys are up to and always appreciate the good advice I get.

    Thanks,

    Hank

  15. #15
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    Good luck! After you get the hang of it, mounting tubeless is not usually a problem.. For the past few years, I've mounted Stans and Stan's conversion-kit wheels with a floor pump. Haven't needed a compressor.

    Being able to take the valve core out helps you get enough air in there to mount them. And yes, all of the rims you mentioned have bead hooks. Not a big deal either way...

    Since I've been looking hard at my first set of carbon rims, I was just wondering whether to wait for light-bicycle to start producing hookless... Now that I've checked out the cheap carbon wheels wheels thread again, I don't really have too many concerns about the strength of their AM rims. And frankly, I realized how long it it will take for them to whip up a new mold and start production...

    @pimpbot shiggy and ijd... Wondering the same thing myself- i doubt spesh could patent it, but i wouldn't put it past them. The folks at LB said "Our engineers have known about this process for more than for a year and we have produced a set. If it becomes popular, we will switch all our rims over." Doesn't sound like they are too concerned..

    We'll see what comes out next year.. but if $1700 wheels can drop to $1200, then $165 rims could drop to $115... which is less than two tires.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrat2010 View Post
    Good luck! After you get the hang of it, mounting tubeless is not usually a problem.. For the past few years, I've mounted Stans and Stan's conversion-kit wheels with a floor pump. Haven't needed a compressor.

    Being able to take the valve core out helps you get enough air in there to mount them. And yes, all of the rims you mentioned have bead hooks. Not a big deal either way...

    Since I've been looking hard at my first set of carbon rims, I was just wondering whether to wait for light-bicycle to start producing hookless... Now that I've checked out the cheap carbon wheels wheels thread again, I don't really have too many concerns about the strength of their AM rims. And frankly, I realized how long it it will take for them to whip up a new mold and start production...

    @pimpbot shiggy and ijd... Wondering the same thing myself- i doubt spesh could patent it, but i wouldn't put it past them. The folks at LB said "Our engineers have known about this process for more than for a year and we have produced a set. If it becomes popular, we will switch all our rims over." Doesn't sound like they are too concerned..

    We'll see what comes out next year.. but if $1700 wheels can drop to $1200, then $165 rims could drop to $115... which is less than two tires.



    I wouldn't expect to see LB lower prices considering the backlog they seem to be operating on.

  17. #17
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    Demand for Chinese carbon "no bead hook" rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty $anchez View Post
    I wouldn't expect to see LB lower prices considering the backlog they seem to be operating on.
    They have already gone up at least twice and probably will more. Supply and demand.

    The current rims do have bead hooks. They lack bead lock ridges on the bead seat, even though some of their photos show them.

    If the bead hooks were dropped the inner width would probably increase... like Stan's Crest/EX vs. the older models.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  18. #18
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    Demand for Chinese carbon "no bead hook" rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyHank View Post
    I know this thread is dedicated to "beadless" carbon rims, and correct me if I'm wrong but both the Shimano WH-MT65F and the Arch Ex wheels are aluminum with "bead hooks"
    Stan's EX wheels have a very minimal bead hook.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cebeas View Post
    I agree the spesh wheels pricing is over the top. Don't think I could actually enjoy putting them through what mtb wheels go through. I have read a few articles about them and find the idea compelling. I would like the opportunity to try a light bicycle version.
    The hookless Rovals are $1200 MSRP for carbon rims, DT Swiss double butted spokes and a rear hub running DT Swiss 36t star ratchet. Seems pretty resonable for that set up. I found a set new on eBay for just under $800 delivered. I don't miss the hooks. Rolling 2.35 Nobby Nic's F/R at 25/26.5 psi. I even used the stock rim strip since I wasn't in the mood to tape. Holds air, no burps. Though the rear feels a little rolly in the corners. I should run a 2.25 back there.
    -G

  20. #20
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    Thanks for all the info- Quick update.. I bought a set of the AM rims last night... will build AM classic/DT Revs/alloy/32@3x...

    Also I heard from LB this morning... they wrote to say they're checking this thread and thanks to you all for your input. They will produce hookless rims if "quite a few customers like this kind of rim..." no timeline mentioned.

  21. #21
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    Definitely interested; especially if the price is even lower...

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedS123 View Post
    Definitely interested; especially if the price is even lower...
    That's the part that would interesting to see if LB gets.
    Their pricings are going up, if the make hookless, the price needs to be lower not higher.

    Seeing as many cracked LB rims, you'd think they'd want to try it just to see if it's stronger as claimed.
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  23. #23
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    If they're stronger and a wee bit lighter with reliable seal whats not to like. If the price comes down a wee bit too I'd be very keen.... Already bought the LB 26er wides and trying not to build a second set for my 29er (second/hack winter ti hardtail). This might just convinve me!!!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrat2010 View Post
    Apologies if this has been posted, but couldn't find it in the massive Chinese carbon rim thread.

    So I asked a rep from lightbicycle.com about making a 29er rim similar to the 2013 carbon Rovals that have been getting a lot of press lately. Basically a version of their wider AM rim built without bead hooks, which apparently makes it stronger and cheaper to manufacture.

    She said they can do it, and the factory has already produced a set. They are just waiting to see if the design will be popular.

    So what do you all think? Is there demand? I definitely would try a set, especially if it built a stronger and cheaper wheel. I figure if there is demand, I'll let them know. Thanks.
    Correct me if I am wrong, but I think it is just the Roval Control 29 carbon rim with the 22mm internal rim width that is without the bead hooks.Specialized Bicycle Components

    I believe the SL and Trail versions still have the hooks and the 21mm inner rim width.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong, but I think it is just the Roval Control 29 carbon rim with the 22mm internal rim width that is without the bead hooks.Specialized Bicycle Components

    I believe the SL and Trail versions still have the hooks and the 21mm inner rim width.
    Nope they apparently changed the Traverse 29 SL:

    "For aggressive trail and all-mountain riders who aren't afraid to take risks and go big, this carbon 29" wheel will surprise you in how light a wheelset can be while still offering the durability to attack the whole mountain.
    Rim Type: carbon clincher, tubeless ready, zero bead hook design
    Internal Rim Width: 22mm"
    13 Lenz Lunchbox punkass

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