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  1. #6901
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    I couple of Years this thread will be archived already
    My wish was at first to go with DT240 however this is double price of DT350 which are 70g heavier (both with cetner lock so exactly as i wished to be)

    Quote Originally Posted by dimitrin View Post
    And let us know how they hold up after a couple years. That way we all learn a thing or two.
    And BTW... Which hubs?

  2. #6902
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    Quote Originally Posted by Placek View Post
    Well
    After contacting my WB mechanic he mantioned that the advantage of Straight pull spokes is physics.
    The tension could be the same as J-bend, however straight spoke doesn't put tension to "bend" place making the stress spraded all over the wheel.
    By that usage of 32 ones is unnecesarry.

    Once again i'm not convinced to any solution so this is why i ask questions here.
    The guy is a road bike wheel builder.
    He is using road bike conditions for his analysis. Mtbiking produces momentary stresses that will far exceed what a road bike wheel sees.
    Jumps, drops, rock hits mid corner are multiple occurrences every ride.
    His high tension build suggestion was the first red flag. High tension with straight-pull is just a recipe for pull through failures.
    You can't rely on this guy.
    Once you pull a stainless steel spoke end through a straight-pull aluminum hub spoke hole that hole is compromised. I wouldn't want to reuse the hub.

    Ask him about Pillar aluminum nipples. Because of poor or no anodizing galvanic corrosion between the aluminum nipple and the carbon leads to destruction of the nipple after one season.
    Brass nipples are necessary for a carbon wheel build.

  3. #6903
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    Brass nipples are necessary for a carbon wheel build.
    I'm a big fan of brass nipples for carbon mtb wheels. They are just so much more durable and easy to use without seizing. They really prolong the life of the build all for a few grams. A couple of wheel builders taught me to use them years ago.
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  4. #6904
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    And i'm totally messed up.
    I know all here have good intetions and share their best knowledge , on the other hand my mech build a lot of wheels (including carbon MTB/ENduro etc) and all users were admitting how how the good builder changes the game.
    Honestly - i'm stucked

    And BTW - why Swiss, Easton,Shimano and I9 go with SP with their factory setups ?

    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    The guy is a road bike wheel builder.
    He is using road bike conditions for his analysis. Mtbiking produces momentary stresses that will far exceed what a road bike wheel sees.
    Jumps, drops, rock hits mid corner are multiple occurrences every ride.
    His high tension build suggestion was the first red flag. High tension with straight-pull is just a recipe for pull through failures.
    You can't rely on this guy.
    Once you pull a stainless steel spoke end through a straight-pull aluminum hub spoke hole that hole is compromised. I wouldn't want to reuse the hub.

    Ask him about Pillar aluminum nipples. Because of poor or no anodizing galvanic corrosion between the aluminum nipple and the carbon leads to destruction of the nipple after one season.
    Brass nipples are necessary for a carbon wheel build.
    Ok se whatever path i will go the Brass Nipples are a must with carbon setup.

    Quote Originally Posted by cycloxer13 View Post
    I'm a big fan of brass nipples for carbon mtb wheels. They are just so much more durable and easy to use without seizing. They really prolong the life of the build all for a few grams. A couple of wheel builders taught me to use them years ago.

  5. #6905
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    Brass aren't a must, but it will make the wheels a lot easier to true as they get older. The weight penalty is 20 grams per wheel.

    Straight pull spokes are very strong. They are just harder to source. There is nothing really wrong with J-bend spokes.
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  6. #6906
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    And generally straight pull are more expensive with the only real benefit you can change a broken spoke without the tire off.

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  7. #6907
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    And generally straight pull are more expensive with the only real benefit you can change a broken spoke without the tire off.

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    I think this pretty much sums it up.
    The benefit of the easy spoke swap is negated in your case due to using standard nipples in a non UST hoop. So all you end up with is hard to source spokes that cost 5x as much.
    The debate over being superior to a j-bend is inconclusive. There are a lot more mtb hub manufacturers building mountain hubs for j-bend than straight pull. And I am sure a lot more pro dh riders riding j-bend than straight pull.
    But all that being said, if your builder knows the difference in buildng a road wheel vs. a mtb wheel than I truly think you'll be just fine using them.... you'll just spend more money having the straight pull.
    One of my wheel sets was a Easton 24 spoke straight pull with with a 370g UST carbon hoop. I went through 5 broke spokes in 3 years on the rear wheel, my daily riding buddy went through 1 broken j-bend spoke during that same time, and it was not broken at the bend.
    I rode the piss out of that lightweight wheel set for 3 years over extermly rugged rocky terrain and cracked the rear hoop twice.
    I weigh 175lb ret to ride, with my aggro riding style I think I would be fine with 28 spokes 410g carbon hoops. I went with 450g hoops because at times I truly felt that maybe those light weight wheels combined with my 32mm fork were subconsciously causing me to hold back a little. The heavier hoops will withstand more abuse, and coupled with the new Pike I have will allow me to push a little harder without worrying about something folding. The second cracked rear hoop is what prompted me to enter the world of "(Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims".
    The irony of all of this is I recently broke my tib fib snowboarding and likely will not be riding for several months, and when I do start back up it will be at a weak pathetic pace... and the possibility is that I may never ride like I did before the broken leg.

    But I'll ride and still have fun!

  8. #6908
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    This in itself seems like such a sham. My understanding is a j bend spoke starts its life out as a straight pull? If the j bend has to go through one additional manufacturing step you would think they would be the more expensive spoke.

    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    And generally straight pull are more expensive with the only real benefit you can change a broken spoke without the tire off.

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  9. #6909
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    It's economics, really. What is more readily available? J-bend. Which costs more because of scarcity? SP.
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  10. #6910
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    Jbend spoke machines are plentiful. In a jbend spoke the stress is spread over the bend and the head. This is why spikes almost never break at the bend. I think that straight pull require stronger heads since all the stress is directly to the head. Strait pull require recalibrating the machine.

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  11. #6911
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    Here's more discussion and good info on possibly avoiding 28 spoke builds.
    28h straight pull vs 32h j-bend 29" wheel build
    Last edited by eb1888; 03-03-2015 at 08:23 AM.

  12. #6912
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    Here's more discussion and good info on avoiding 28 spoke builds.
    28h straight pull vs 32h j-bend 29" wheel build
    That is a very broad statement that is simply not correct for all riders in all applications. Hole count is only one factor that goes into a wheel build.

    As an example, consider that a I weigh 140#. Somebody who weighs 185# is 30% heavier. Removing 4 spokes from a wheel is a 12% difference.

    Questions that need to be asked include:

    What gauge spokes are you using?
    What's the cross pattern?
    Aluminum or brass nipples?
    What is the PCD and width of the hubs?
    What's the build tension?
    Are we talking stiffer carbon hoops or aluminum rims?
    What is the intended application: XC racing, trail JRA, AM, or DH runs?

    You have to match the build to the rider and the intended application. That's why if you don't know what you are doing, it is worth your time and money to seek out a good wheel builder.

    FYI, I spec out and build all of my own wheels for personal use.
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  13. #6913
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    Fixed it.

  14. #6914
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    Quote Originally Posted by cycloxer13 View Post
    Brass aren't a must, but it will make the wheels a lot easier to true as they get older. The weight penalty is 20 grams per wheel.

    Straight pull spokes are very strong. They are just harder to source. There is nothing really wrong with J-bend spokes.
    Has this point been brought up recently? ... that Alu nipples react with the carbon, making them corrode pretty quickly. Like, I've seen them corrode so badly they need to be replaced in a year.

    I built up both my wheelsets with brass nipples for this reason. I've used alu nipples but I only seem to get 2 years before they start popping on me under my 200 pound ass.

    I've got about 2 years of hard riding on my LB 29er AM rims with brass nipples, and I have never had to even true them.

  15. #6915
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    Has this point been brought up recently? ... that Alu nipples react with the carbon, making them corrode pretty quickly. Like, I've seen them corrode so badly they need to be replaced in a year.

    I built up both my wheelsets with brass nipples for this reason. I've used alu nipples but I only seem to get 2 years before they start popping on me under my 200 pound ass.

    I've got about 2 years of hard riding on my LB 29er AM rims with brass nipples, and I have never had to even true them.
    Yep, been brought up - still not really sure if it's the quality of the nipple anodising and install method or fundamental because plenty of people seem to have no long term issues. Either way, it's not worth the risk - brass is a better more durable solution all round

  16. #6916
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    that Alu nipples react with the carbon, making them corrode pretty quickly.
    This is not a law... it happens in some circumstances, some not.

    Quote Originally Posted by pharmaboy View Post
    Yep, been brought up - still not really sure if it's the quality of the nipple anodising and install method or fundamental because plenty of people seem to have no long term issues. Either way, it's not worth the risk - brass is a better more durable solution all round
    this
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  17. #6917
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    I see a lot of failures on the alu nipples from China factory built wheels ( namely Pillar & CN). A few of us have looked at them and we have a few theories. I've seen a few builds where the spokes were very short and the nipple would literally crack in half or disintegrate after a year. The nipple had poor thread engagement. I've seen others that seize after too much wet weather use or one New England winter. The wheels can be salvaged to a point, but it kind of sucks if you keep popping spokes and have to go to the bike shop all the time.

    Unless I am building race wheels, I use Wheelsmith Durastan brass nipples. It's akin to buying a small insurance policy to extend the longevity of the wheel.
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  18. #6918
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by cycloxer13 View Post
    I see a lot of failures on the alu nipples from China factory built wheels ( namely Pillar & CN). A few of us have looked at them and we have a few theories. I've seen a few builds where the spokes were very short and the nipple would literally crack in half or disintegrate after a year. The nipple had poor thread engagement. I've seen others that seize after too much wet weather use or one New England winter. The wheels can be salvaged to a point, but it kind of sucks if you keep popping spokes and have to go to the bike shop all the time.

    Unless I am building race wheels, I use Wheelsmith Durastan brass nipples. It's akin to buying a small insurance policy to extend the longevity of the wheel.
    I just experienced this. I have Pillar alu nipples. I've only had the wheels for 3 months though... I'm really scared this is going to keep happening again. Would you suggest rebuilding then with brass?

  19. #6919
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    Yes.

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  20. #6920
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orembiker View Post
    Would you suggest rebuilding then with brass?
    If you have broken more than one or two nipples, yes. It isn't the end of the world. The brass nipples are strong enough that even if the spokes are a bit short you will be okay.
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  21. #6921
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orembiker View Post
    I just experienced this. I have Pillar alu nipples. I've only had the wheels for 3 months though... I'm really scared this is going to keep happening again. Would you suggest rebuilding then with brass?
    This is the reason I would never have the wheels build at factory, Pillar nipples are junk. I like being able to pick exactly the parts for my build. I would always have a wheel builder that you "trust" and has passion for what he does. I have not had any problems with my alloy nips with LB rims, I just broke 2 spokes because of branch that broke spokes, no problems at all with my Alloy nips.
    There are so many variables involved, but saying do not use Alloy nips is just wrong, why would I use brass and add the extra weight at the most critical area of the wheel for rotational weight savings with no added benefit in my case!!

  22. #6922
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    My new wheels are ready and i am enjoying them a lot LB 27/22 rims made by a local builder. I asked LB for rims around 375gr. The set:

    LB 27/22 rims
    DT240S hubs
    DT Revolution (32)
    Brass nipples
    Weight (no tape & valves) 780gr & 720gr

    My previous set was same but with Crest rims. Much easier to get the tires on with the LB hookless rims. I use Schwalbe TLR tubes and they were a pain to get on the Crest set. With the Crest i could seat the tires with a floor pump, with these hookless rims i got to use the compressor but very easy to make them seat.


  23. #6923
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    So, Pillar nipples are junk? I guess I am screwed. FYI, they are made in Taiwan and not China. Not sure that matters but I don't hear much about Ibis or Nox Composite wheels failing because they use alloy pillar nipples in their builds.

    If you are using Pillar DSN nipples (ie., Ibis) then the spokes need to be 2 mm longer than what most spoke calculators indicate. That's one thing I like about the DSN nipple is that they are threaded all the way through and thus have extra bite. Compare that to a DTswiss or Wheelsmith where you need different spoke lengths when changing from a 12 to 16 mm nipple. Maybe that matters and maybe it doesn't but IMO at least the DSN series nipples seem like a good option to brass with deep-seated carbon rims.

    Advising someone to rebuild their wheel with brass because they just now discovered they have alloy nipples is crazy talk.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-pillar.jpg  

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  24. #6924
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    Well you're not using red. Maybe that's the ticket.
    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-corrosion.jpg

  25. #6925
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    It happens too red black and silver. Must be that yellow is the hot ticket!

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  26. #6926
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    Well you're not using red. Maybe that's the ticket.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Eb, are those yours? Brands? Riding conditions?

    Currently waiting on some pillar spokes + nipples to be delivered. ;-(


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  27. #6927
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    As many pictures of corroded AL nipples that get posted I don't get the urge to use them over brass.

    Sorry you're not going to feel that 20g.
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  28. #6928
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    Quote Originally Posted by fefillo View Post
    Eb, are those yours? Brands? Riding conditions?
    Currently waiting on some pillar spokes + nipples to be delivered. ;-(
    No, I used the free brass nipples that come with Sapim Lasers from Dan's Comp.
    Those are off an Australian site. I hadn't seen that picture before.

  29. #6929
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    No, I used the free brass nipples that come with Sapim Lasers from Dan's Comp.
    Those are off an Australian site. I hadn't seen that picture before.
    So, did they say anything about the circumstances around those nipples? This is not CNN, but I think posting some random picture with no context can only help to confuse more than help people. Unless we are just trying to spread myths and rumors and not actually understand things.


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  30. #6930
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    No, I used the free brass nipples that come with Sapim Lasers from Dan's Comp.
    Those are off an Australian site. I hadn't seen that picture before.
    That's kinda lame. For all we know they were riding the wheels that those nipples came out of on the great barrier reef.

    ~1000 miles on Ibis 928s with pillar alloy nipples and no issues. That's empirical data.

    That said, my two cents is go with brass as well. Unless you really want bling and know how to build wheels. Re-lacing with new nipples every 2 or 3 years is not a big deal for me. For others, who dropped $1400 or more on their wheelset it probably is.
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  31. #6931
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    I didn't see conclusive info.

    http://perthmtb.asn.au/node/45673

    "And if you have carbon wheels and alloy nipples you may want to check your nipples for corrosion when you do a major service or change a tyre - else they may just corrode and pull through the rim = Pic 2. Seems to be a combination of sealing fluid (Stans in this case), water and different conductivity of alloy nipples and carbon rims? Just replaced my wheels alloy nipples with brass ones"

  32. #6932
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    Ok for those of you who have warrantied a rim from light-bicycle how exactly did the process play out? I've seen it mentioned from time to time and what I can recall is some emails get sent back and forth with what I would assume include pics of the problem. Then you have to pay the shipping and they send you a replacement rim for free. Did you have to dig up your original emails from when you ordered the rims, in my case only two months ago? Was it hard to get them to agree to a replacement?

    Thanks

  33. #6933
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    Quote Originally Posted by fefillo View Post
    So, did they say anything about the circumstances around those nipples? This is not CNN, but I think posting some random picture with no context can only help to confuse more than help people. Unless we are just trying to spread myths and rumors and not actually understand things.


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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    That's kinda lame. For all we know they were riding the wheels that those nipples came out of on the great barrier reef.

    ~1000 miles on Ibis 928s with pillar alloy nipples and no issues. That's empirical data.

    That said, my two cents is go with brass as well. Unless you really want bling and know how to build wheels. Re-lacing with new nipples every 2 or 3 years is not a big deal for me. For others, who dropped $1400 or more on their wheelset it probably is.


    Plenty of other posts showing the same thing.

    Makes you wonder why Envy has this on their website: "Once a year, inspect the inside or your rim using a flashlight to check for nipple corrosion."

    Here's a whole thread on it with plenty of pictures if you really need to consider whether or not that 20g is worth the risk.

    ENVE wheel nipple corrosion.
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  34. #6934
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    Well you're not using red. Maybe that's the ticket.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I know this comment doesn't help answer what is obviously a very complex question, and I know that we don't know the use history of those nips in the pics, but I just gotta say...doesn't it seem a little weird that the corrosion is almost all above the actual surface that was in contact with the rim itself?

    We have seen other pics from carbon rim corrosion where the spoke "barrel" and the underside of the head were all trashed too, but in this case even the red ano is still intact on those surfaces, so it isn't like the crud just got knocked or ground off when they were removing them. While I am at it, does anyone have a handle on who is using black and red steel spokes in the same wheels? I think Spz does, but wasn't sure on others, and was curious if that would tell us what these came out of.

    Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled programming...

  35. #6935
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by Placek View Post
    All

    I'm seriously considering my first carbon rims but here in PL in my surrounding everybody says that For Light Enduro only ALU is a way to go.
    So was advised to go with FlowEX or Ex 471 as they can handle a lot (i'm 185LBS) and considering to spend more and stay on light side (200g to save on set)

    But main Question is.
    Would You Consider RM29C07
    35mm wide 29er rims beadless for bicycle trail or mountain bike enduro with tubeless compatibility Light-Bicycle

    for this kind of trails:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmGkHRyHKag (nasty rocky and rooty)?
    Beautiful trails. I don't mean this to be antagonistic but at those speeds the carbon will be fine. Bear in mind, comparably built carbon and aluminum rims will generally fail under the same scenarios. Only difference is carbon cracks, AL dents. So, if they were to pick up the pace, say race speeds, they would risk a crack/dent for sure. But that's just part of the game. Either way you have to let it rip. You can't race like you're trying to preserve your components.

  36. #6936
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Plenty of other posts showing the same thing.

    Makes you wonder why Envy has this on their website: "Once a year, inspect the inside or your rim using a flashlight to check for nipple corrosion."

    Here's a whole thread on it with plenty of pictures if you really need to consider whether or not that 20g is worth the risk.

    ENVE wheel nipple corrosion.
    I wonder how many Ibis carbon wheelsets have now been sold with janky pillar alloy black nipples? Still not one report of nipple failure. Is it because they use stainless washers? I doubt it. Just curious really. I have no dog in this fight and am quite happy with my 928s as they are and am building up Derbys with alloy nipples as well. To each their own.
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  37. #6937
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    brass nipples win hands down under the 'better safe than sorry' umbrella. I can't think of any motive for spreading false rumors about alloy nipples corroding. I think we all agree it is possible. So, alloy is softer, 2-3x the price of brass, and might corrode. Unless you're an Olympic-level racer I can't imagine why you'd take all that for weight savings and color options.

  38. #6938
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    Nipples. People get so worked up about spoke and nipple weight and it is just not that big of a deal. You need to realize that brass nipples weigh about 30 grams per wheel. Aluminum weigh roughly 10. A 20 gram difference. BFD That's equivalent to less than an ounce of sealant. They aren't even positioned at the perimeter of the rim. There is no way in hell you could tell the difference in the real world, especially on a 29-er where people are bolting up 700-800 gram tires. Choose a lighter tread. The weight of the tread on a tire is the furthest away from the axle. That makes the biggest difference.
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  39. #6939
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    First wheel build is in the books. The first time around the block was pretty slow, but I could see future builds going more smoothly.

    CarbonCycle 35/30mm Rims
    DT Comp straight pull spokes
    DT 240 28h hubs
    DT brass nips.

    1590g and noticably stiffer than my Roval Carbon SL's. Wind-up and spoke twist was not an issue at all. Glad I know how to do this now.


  40. #6940
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    F love the look. Pics of the rear tire? DT st pull w brass. Well done mate.
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  41. #6941
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    This is all I got with the rear.


  42. #6942
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    This build looks sick, honestly would like to order mine finally.
    Bigdrunk
    I'm also considering taking SP spokes - how do You see them - i mean usage in rough terrain, do You do any jumping or more serious drops (3-4ft?) - were You thinking about 32h version instead ?
    Secondly - the rim - were You considering the 38(31.6) version?



    Quote Originally Posted by bigdrunk View Post
    First wheel build is in the books. The first time around the block was pretty slow, but I could see future builds going more smoothly.

    CarbonCycle 35/30mm Rims
    DT Comp straight pull spokes
    DT 240 28h hubs
    DT brass nips.

    1590g and noticably stiffer than my Roval Carbon SL's. Wind-up and spoke twist was not an issue at all. Glad I know how to do this now.

  43. #6943
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    I wonder how many Ibis carbon wheelsets have now been sold with janky pillar alloy black nipples? Still not one report of nipple failure. Is it because they use stainless washers? I doubt it. Just curious really. I have no dog in this fight and am quite happy with my 928s as they are and am building up Derbys with alloy nipples as well. To each their own.
    Taking something that hasn't been out very long and holding it up as a shining example of long term durability is , well you get the point.
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  44. #6944
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Taking something that hasn't been out very long and holding it up as a shining example of long term durability is , well you get the point.
    And so is posting pics of corroded nipples that you found on the interwebs to prove your point. My point, in case you missed it, is that someone like Hans Heim at Ibis does a lot of research and has a lot to lose by their wheelsets coming back. For the most part, all the reports I have read about involve Enve. Nor, have I read or seen one report of corroded nipples with a Derby rim.

    That said, brass for the win.
    "Fart in a paper bag, after eating the #17 plate from filibertos. STRAVA!" M77Ranger.

  45. #6945
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    Here are my thoughts:

    These rims seem great so far. No complaints once so ever, but if I were to order them again I would get carbon cycle's 38mm rims. I noticed them after I had ordered these. No big deal, but the new 38mm rims are wider and 20g lighter.

    28 hole straight pulls: I don't see strength or stiffness being an issue with these at all for my 185b weight. I don't really do drops higher than 2' though. But, if I could do it all over again I would have ordered 32 hole hubs and rims. In the end, going 28 hole I felt I had to go DT Comps to ensure strength and stiffness. I did not want to build up with Sapim lasers and be disappointed. Going 32 hole J-bend, spoke selection would have been better too. I have a ton of left over spokes from my wheel build and carry extras in my camelback.

    I am pretty sure if I went 32 hole I could have built up a lighter and as stiff or stiffer wheel. But again, I am new to this and don't have any other build experience to go off of.

    As a plus, straight pulls lace really easy (being a rookie wheel builder). As mentioned above, I did not experience the spokes spinning either. I think with the components used in my build, it could not have been any easier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Placek View Post
    This build looks sick, honestly would like to order mine finally.
    Bigdrunk
    I'm also considering taking SP spokes - how do You see them - i mean usage in rough terrain, do You do any jumping or more serious drops (3-4ft?) - were You thinking about 32h version instead ?
    Secondly - the rim - were You considering the 38(31.6) version?

  46. #6946
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    I have posted many of my own pictures of nipples in this thread (all were DT and in black, red and silver). I rebuilt my 6 carbon wheels this winter with brass after having 3 nipples break last summer. I can send you a picture of a pile of 200 nipples many of which have corrosion. A few of which barely have ends left. I don't have Enve wheels (rather have my 6 LB wheels than 2 Enve wheels).

    I posted a plausible explanation of the cause of this problem about 6 months ago in this thread. My reasoning is that since this does not seem to be a problem with road carbon wheels and that it is even happening to Enve wheels where the holes are molded not drilled (no nipples ever touch carbon just resin which should be an insulator) that there has to be a cause specific to mountain bikes.

    Short version; the disc brake is acting like a dynamo with the metal on metal grinding (not sure if organic pads would do the same-but I think they would) causing electrons to build up in the disc. They are transmitted down the hub into the spokes and from there into the nipples. Since electrons repel each other they tend to concentrate in the ends of the nipples. In this case with the disc driving the process the buildup in the ends of the nipples allows enough voltage to overwhelm the anodizing and oxidize an aluminum molecule at the end of the nipple. Once you pierce the anodizing the process is easier for that nipple in the future. This explains why when you rebuild a wheel, some nipples are practically gone and other look new. The fact that Enve wheels have molded holes and that they seem to almost have this problem worse also tends to make sense with this explanation since in the case of Enve wheels the electrons can't leave the nipple into the rim (resin is almost a perfect insulator carbon is about half as much so).

    I have Zipp road wheels that are 15 years old with thousands of miles and the nipples show no signs of this problem. If you look at a road wheel as a system the metal brake track is insulated from the rest of the wheel by the carbon part of the rim. So almost no electrons could ever get to the nipples on my Zipp road wheels. Certainly not enough to jump over the anodizing and cause oxidation of the nipple.

    This is the best explanation I have found for this so far and it jives with all the facts we have. Even the anecdotal data that I had this problem bad and I am mostly a single speeder and so I carry maximum speed until the last minute and then brake very aggressively. If anyone can see a better explanation, please share it with the world.

    Until there is another solution brass is the only way to go unless you are willing to rebuild your wheels every year or so. Also, when I rebuilt all those wheels this winter, I was reminded how much better brass nipples are to work with than aluminum. I have used aluminum exclusively for many years and the brass nipples are so smooth and easy to tighten as the tension builds up That I would probably use them on a road wheel in the future, especially since there are way fewer nipples and the weight difference would be almost nothing on a road wheel.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  47. #6947
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    I like that explanation. It's the most plausible one I've read.

  48. #6948
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-fullsizerender.jpg

    Here is my LB 650b 35mm DH version with Enve sticker (Sorry enve hehehehe...)

  49. #6949
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    Short version; the disc brake is acting like a dynamo with the metal on metal grinding (not sure if organic pads would do the same-but I think they would) causing electrons to build up in the disc. They are transmitted down the hub into the spokes and from there into the nipples. Since electrons repel each other they tend to concentrate in the ends of the nipples. In this case with the disc driving the process the buildup in the ends of the nipples allows enough voltage to overwhelm the anodizing and oxidize an aluminum molecule at the end of the nipple. Once you pierce the anodizing the process is easier for that nipple in the future. This explains why when you rebuild a wheel, some nipples are practically gone and other look new. The fact that Enve wheels have molded holes and that they seem to almost have this problem worse also tends to make sense with this explanation since in the case of Enve wheels the electrons can't leave the nipple into the rim (resin is almost a perfect insulator carbon is about half as much so).


    Do you think having some king of insulating gasket between disk and hub would help isolate the spokes/nipples from the electric charge?

    Maybe we can test this with the guy that got grilled for not running a rear brake a few months ago!


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  50. #6950
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    That could be problematic. Spacing issues, might not save any weight. Brass nipples are good and work. I have no interest in trying to insulate the disc. The penalty is only ~20 grams.

    Tapatalk upgrade is much better!
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  51. #6951
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    You realize the screws go into the hub right?

    Tapatalk upgrade is much better!
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  52. #6952
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    You realize the screws go into the hub right?

    Tapatalk upgrade is much better!
    Hey! You didn't think about that on your first reply either. ;-)


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  53. #6953
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    Yes but I have thought about ways to try to insulate the hub b4. and knew it would be very difficult. The only way I figured out was an all carbon hub.

    Tapatalk upgrade is much better!
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  54. #6954
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    I agree. If you are starting from scratch, the brass nipples seem to be the easy solution, but if you already had the alloy nipples installed, it would be great to come up with some remedial/prevention options.


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  55. #6955
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    I guess there's a dynamo in my butt then. How else could you explain how the same corrosion happening to my reverb seat post inside a carbon frame? My guess is this a chemistry equation. Just my opinion.

  56. #6956
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    The galling you see in that pic has been cleaned up considerably. There had been an obvious chemical reaction happening. White/ grey powdery substance was also present. The post was almost frozen in the frame. I had used grease.

    Hope this adds to the conjecture.

  57. #6957
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    That is galvanic corrosion too. The cause here is that there is slight movement between the parts. In this case your seat tube actually stretches microscopically every time you come down hard on the seat. That is why this type problem usually shows up at the rear of the seatpost around the top of the seat tube area. Also, your seatpost is slightly compressing in that area at the same time. So the two parts rub over each other microscopically and this wears the anodizing off the post and then those exposed aluminum molecules start grabbing electrons. Get a little water and crud in there to facilitate and the electrons have an even easier time of it.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  58. #6958
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by fracaxis View Post
    The galling you see in that pic has been cleaned up considerably. There had been an obvious chemical reaction happening. White/ grey powdery substance was also present. The post was almost frozen in the frame. I had used grease.
    galling is wear caused by microscopic movements. Likely the anodized coating was worn off fist, leaving the exposed aluminum to corrode, which it will do in the presence of any moisture.
    Dynamos involve magnets and are in no way at play here.
    Be wary of armchair experts on MTBR.

    Quote Originally Posted by fracaxis View Post
    Hope this adds to the conjecture.
    Conjecture is not a bad characterization. I'd offer wild speculation as more apropos.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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  59. #6959
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by fefillo View Post
    I agree. If you are starting from scratch, the brass nipples seem to be the easy solution, but if you already had the alloy nipples installed, it would be great to come up with some remedial/prevention options.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    For this solution to be effective the problem would have had to have been correctly identified. What we have here is just stabs in the dark by people who don't know much about what they are saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  60. #6960
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    It's all ball bearings nowadays. Now you prepare that Fetzer valve with some 3-in-1 oil and some gauze pads. And I'm gonna need 'bout ten quarts of anti-freeze, preferably Prestone. No, no make that Quaker State.

  61. #6961
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    For this solution to be effective the problem would have had to have been correctly identified. What we have here is just stabs in the dark by people who don't know much about what they are saying.
    MF, do you have a theory on the alloy nipple corrosion issues? And beyond that... any ideas how to prevent it besides going with brass?

  62. #6962
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    Quote Originally Posted by fefillo View Post
    MF, do you have a theory on the alloy nipple corrosion issues? And beyond that... any ideas how to prevent it besides going with brass?
    Looks very much like straight corrosion (oxidation) of aluminum accelerated or caused by sealant components (ammonia), but it is likely not one cause across the whole spectrum of people's experiences, which is why categorical proclamations of what the specific mechanism is are ridiculous.
    It does happen on road bikes, it happens sometimes with aluminum rims, and it doesn't always happen with carbon rims.
    Using quality anodized nipples definitely helps. Not using porous/gas permeable tape (e.g., Gorilla) helps, and maybe coating the nipples after the wheel is built with something like Frame Saver would help.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  63. #6963
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    Summing up.
    You don't regret going 28SP and 30mm however now and for harder usage You would go 32h 38mm rims - correct ?


    Quote Originally Posted by bigdrunk View Post
    Here are my thoughts:

    These rims seem great so far. No complaints once so ever, but if I were to order them again I would get carbon cycle's 38mm rims. I noticed them after I had ordered these. No big deal, but the new 38mm rims are wider and 20g lighter.

    28 hole straight pulls: I don't see strength or stiffness being an issue with these at all for my 185b weight. I don't really do drops higher than 2' though. But, if I could do it all over again I would have ordered 32 hole hubs and rims. In the end, going 28 hole I felt I had to go DT Comps to ensure strength and stiffness. I did not want to build up with Sapim lasers and be disappointed. Going 32 hole J-bend, spoke selection would have been better too. I have a ton of left over spokes from my wheel build and carry extras in my camelback.

    I am pretty sure if I went 32 hole I could have built up a lighter and as stiff or stiffer wheel. But again, I am new to this and don't have any other build experience to go off of.

    As a plus, straight pulls lace really easy (being a rookie wheel builder). As mentioned above, I did not experience the spokes spinning either. I think with the components used in my build, it could not have been any easier.

  64. #6964
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    If we step outside of MTBR for a moment and do a simple search, this is one of the first things that pops up. Interesting and may explain some of the issues people encounter.

    http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aer...7/corrosn.html

    Scrolling down to the coupling of materials section seems applicable.

  65. #6965
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by fracaxis View Post
    If we step outside of MTBR for a moment and do a simple search, this is one of the first things that pops up. Interesting and may explain some of the issues people encounter.

    http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aer...7/corrosn.html

    Scrolling down to the coupling of materials section seems applicable.
    A new MTBR expert is born.
    I'm just messing with you but that's how it happens. Corrosion is not something you learn everything about in a 5-minute internet read.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  66. #6966
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Haha. I love your sarcasm.

  67. #6967
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Me thinks Boeing spent more than 5 minutes in it.

  68. #6968
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    Quote Originally Posted by fracaxis View Post
    Me thinks Boeing spent more than 5 minutes in it.
    Most of that stuff is copy-and-pasted from elsewhere on the Internet.
    The MTBR armchair scientists discussing it here are the ones who have spent 5 minutes learning corrosion to come here and spout their knowledge.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  69. #6969
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    It's good to have someone here to cut through the haze. I've been lurking here long enough to appreciate your clarity.

  70. #6970
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    oh god there joining up.

  71. #6971
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    I've heard enough about nipples now to last me a lifetime.
    And that's coming from a "boob" man


    Fat Biker

  72. #6972
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Well... call me stupid, shallow, a rebel or whatever... I went with red alloy nipples for my LB 38mm homebuild! I'll update in a year or 2 if I end up replacing them with brass due to corrosion.

    Details here: New Light Bicycle 38mm rims?
    Last edited by fefillo; 03-11-2015 at 03:05 PM.

  73. #6973
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    Guys
    You convinced me to J-Bend 32h on rear.
    Still having an issue with front as my local LBS is having some great deal on 240s but 28h J-Bend - worth of penny ?

  74. #6974
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    Quote Originally Posted by Placek View Post
    Guys
    You convinced me to J-Bend 32h on rear.
    Still having an issue with front as my local LBS is having some great deal on 240s but 28h J-Bend - worth of penny ?
    I don't think it would be a problem on a front.
    Check hub pricing on Bike24 and Hibike. The Euro is at 1.05 and dropping so a 350 front is $40 + 100 for 240. Add a bunch of tires for your friends to offset $21 shipping.

  75. #6975
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    Hi All. First post.

    I wanted to reach out and make contact with any riders who might find information and reviews on Chinese (or broadly Asian) manufactured rims (and other components/frames) useful.

    I'm working in Guangzhou, China (close to Shenzhen) on contract for a few years and in my early days here have been riding local trails, meeting local riders, and finding the LBSes over the past 6 months. A good Chinese friend of mine is a sponsored racer for a Chinese company (Quick) and also works in marketing for WTB.

    He and I have this vision to get info out to our western brothers and sisters using our connections ("guanxi") in the industry here as well as our proximity to a number of the manufacturers. It would be website dedicated to unbiased short- and longterm reviews of products as well as info and images on manufacturers/companies. I know that a number of others have attempted this in abortive blog fashion or in forums, but I don't know of any centralized site/hub online with easy content searching and dialogue for these kind of reviews. We have some really great access to information here and would like to utilize it.

    Is a website dedicated to reviews and info on Asian manufactured products (carbon frames, rims, some other components, MTB/road) something anyone would be interested in using if we set it up? We'd be happy to compile requests of manufacturers and products to chase up and provide tech info and reviews.

  76. #6976
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    Just posted this stand alone post on my experience with LBs Pillar spokes and nipples in case anyone here is planning on using them.
    http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/...l#post11837050

  77. #6977
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    Quote Originally Posted by intellikat View Post
    Hi All. First post.

    I wanted to reach out and make contact with any riders who might find information and reviews on Chinese (or broadly Asian) manufactured rims (and other components/frames) useful.

    I'm working in Guangzhou, China (close to Shenzhen) on contract for a few years and in my early days here have been riding local trails, meeting local riders, and finding the LBSes over the past 6 months. A good Chinese friend of mine is a sponsored racer for a Chinese company (Quick) and also works in marketing for WTB.

    He and I have this vision to get info out to our western brothers and sisters using our connections ("guanxi") in the industry here as well as our proximity to a number of the manufacturers. It would be website dedicated to unbiased short- and longterm reviews of products as well as info and images on manufacturers/companies. I know that a number of others have attempted this in abortive blog fashion or in forums, but I don't know of any centralized site/hub online with easy content searching and dialogue for these kind of reviews. We have some really great access to information here and would like to utilize it.

    Is a website dedicated to reviews and info on Asian manufactured products (carbon frames, rims, some other components, MTB/road) something anyone would be interested in using if we set it up? We'd be happy to compile requests of manufacturers and products to chase up and provide tech info and reviews.
    Manufacturer info is largely lacking so more transparency would be appreciated. Two products may be marketed/sold online by two different 'named' companies but do they each manufacture the entire product, add their name to something a manufacturer sells to a number of others, design and set specifications for a unique product, or what. I'd like to know who actually makes it.

  78. #6978
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    Manufacturer info is largely lacking so more transparency would be appreciated. Two products may be marketed/sold online by two different 'named' companies but do they each manufacture the entire product, add their name to something a manufacturer sells to a number of others, design and set specifications for a unique product, or what. I'd like to know who actually makes it.
    Agreed.

    Our proximity and ability to speak Chinese should be helpful in dealing with manufacturers and moving closer toward some transparency.

    Being able to locate the source (manufacturer/factory) of a particular component would be extremely valuable info, especially if the product is known to be good or bad. The same goes for getting to know the relative quality of those manufacturers over time... something of a track record. Some of the designs look very similar when just looking at them online, but its harder to determine if they are coming out of the same factory, mold, or what.

  79. #6979
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    Quote Originally Posted by fefillo View Post
    Just posted this stand alone post on my experience with LBs Pillar spokes and nipples in case anyone here is planning on using them.
    http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/...l#post11837050
    Very nice and direct.

  80. #6980
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    I really don't understand the need that cyclist have with knowing what company manufactures a product or even the components that make up a product. Does this have any influence on your decision to buy this product? Do you do this with other products?

    Most people I've asked don't care. It seems more like just useless trivia or some water cooler conversation at best. Perhaps you just want to be the smartest guy at the shop. I've never heard anyone ask where the LCD panel in their devices were made or who manufactured the processor in their HDTV. I like this blender but I really need to know who manufactured the motor in it and preferably who molded the plastic carafe.

  81. #6981
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    I really don't understand the need that cyclist have with knowing what company manufactures a product or even the components that make up a product. Does this have any influence on your decision to buy this product? Do you do this with other products?

    Most people I've asked don't care. It seems more like just useless trivia or some water cooler conversation at best. Perhaps you just want to be the smartest guy at the shop. I've never heard anyone ask where the LCD panel in their devices were made or who manufactured the processor in their HDTV. I like this blender but I really need to know who manufactured the motor in it and preferably who molded the plastic carafe.
    Have you ever been to a blender forum? How about a forum for audiophiles? People, not just cyclists, obsess about everything and anything that they care for. Besides, what's so wrong about being informed customers?

    I agree with your comment that most people don't care. But also, by definition most people are at or below average in everything. I do care and a lot of other do too. Other people prefer not to pay 200-300% more for equivalent products.

    Why are you even here if you don't care?

    Yeeeeshhh.


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  82. #6982
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    I really don't understand the need that cyclist have with knowing what company manufactures a product or even the components that make up a product. Does this have any influence on your decision to buy this product? Do you do this with other products?

    Most people I've asked don't care. It seems more like just useless trivia or some water cooler conversation at best. Perhaps you just want to be the smartest guy at the shop. I've never heard anyone ask where the LCD panel in their devices were made or who manufactured the processor in their HDTV. I like this blender but I really need to know who manufactured the motor in it and preferably who molded the plastic carafe.
    For example, anything manufactured with carbon fiber is very dependent on the design and manufacturing for how it performs and whether it will last given the conditions of use.
    Evil Bikes, it has been reported, changed frame manufacturers. They experienced quality problems with some of their past frames. The new manufacturer is VIP. Some posters consider this a quality choice. Knowing who is making something can make you confident in an expensive choice from a smaller bike company.

  83. #6983
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    I really don't understand the need that cyclist have with knowing what company manufactures a product or even the components that make up a product. Does this have any influence on your decision to buy this product? Do you do this with other products?

    Most people I've asked don't care. It seems more like just useless trivia or some water cooler conversation at best. Perhaps you just want to be the smartest guy at the shop. I've never heard anyone ask where the LCD panel in their devices were made or who manufactured the processor in their HDTV. I like this blender but I really need to know who manufactured the motor in it and preferably who molded the plastic carafe.
    If the processor in my tv or the motor in my blender fails, that isn't sending me to the ER. Parts on my bike failing can very easily be sending me to the ER or worse.
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  84. #6984
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    For example, anything manufactured with carbon fiber is very dependent on the design and manufacturing for how it performs and whether it will last given the conditions of use.
    Evil Bikes, it has been reported, changed frame manufacturers. They experienced quality problems with some of their past frames. The new manufacturer is VIP. Some posters consider this a quality choice. Knowing who is making something can make you confident in an expensive choice from a smaller bike company.
    Well said. I had not heard this info about Evil. I wrote them off from my recent frame purchase due to my own worries about QC. Now that I've heard this it makes me feel better about them as a brand. Maybe I should have kept them in the running. Useful information I'd say.

  85. #6985
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    Quote Originally Posted by fracaxis View Post
    Well said. I had not heard this info about Evil. I wrote them off from my recent frame purchase due to my own worries about QC. Now that I've heard this it makes me feel better about them as a brand. Maybe I should have kept them in the running. Useful information I'd say.
    If you check the 2015 Bible test of the Following and some ride reports in their new forum section you may move them up towards the top of your list.
    Here's a video of Luke Strobel on a red Following leading a prototype carbon 27.5 Transition in eastern Washington. It is fast....er.
    ONE LAP - Lars Sternberg & Luke Strobel, Xanadu - Mountain Biking Videos - Vital MTB

  86. #6986
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    It's too late for me. I already pulled the trigger on a new Trans - Smuggler. Very happy so far. I'm hope the Following is everything they say it is and holds up too. This category of bike really appeals to me and the more productions of it the better. My own thought is Transition would kill it with sales if they produced a carbon Smuggler and not just the carbon Patrol.

    Back on topic though, more transparency and knowledge about the industry seems way better than sticking our heads in the sand and being spoon fed.

  87. #6987
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    Let's say one carbon wheels company says they have a trick compacting process that creates more uniform rims using one piece of continuous carbon instead of multiple separate parts. The manufacturer has to support that process. Now if that same manufacturer makes rims for other sellers, all of them have access to that process. They may be selling rims in different sizes and designs that you may favor, or for less money.

    I can see that affecting buying decisions, especially if you consider who is the buyer of aftermarket carbon rims: True bike geeks

  88. #6988
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrozCountry View Post
    Let's say one carbon wheels company says they have a trick compacting process that creates more uniform rims using one piece of continuous carbon instead of multiple separate parts.
    My money would be on the fact that they are full of shit, just knowing how these guys operate in general. They'll say anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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  89. #6989
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    My money would be on the fact that they are full of shit, just knowing how these guys operate in general. They'll say anything.
    This is a concern we hope to address by our proximity and connections here. Transparency is high on the list when money and safety are in question. I do think the industry in China is changing, and there are manufacturers of integrity here. We'll see what we can do about interfacing with them.

  90. #6990
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    My money would be on the fact that they are full of shit, just knowing how these guys operate in general. They'll say anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by intellikat View Post
    This is a concern we hope to address by our proximity and connections here. Transparency is high on the list when money and safety are in question. I do think the industry in China is changing, and there are manufacturers of integrity here. We'll see what we can do about interfacing with them.
    I'll chime back in on this point.
    On page 268 of this thread I started posting summaries of available options and tech innovations of various carbon rims, including pics sent by the sellers. The sellers I spoke with were extremely helpful with all questions before the sale.
    I opted to purchase my rims from Nextie, and my order shipped out just before the Chinese new year.
    The rim had two weight options, and having already cracked two prior Easton Haven hoops, I opted for the heavier 450g option.
    When the rims arrived, I checked them out and weighed them, unfortunately one of the rims was the light weight version.
    Not that this was the end of the world, but now I was concerned about after the sale customer service.
    Emails initially went unanswered due to the new year holiday, but they replied upon their return. They apologized, admitted it was totally their mistake possibly due to trying to rush orders out just before their extended holiday, and have assured me that a new rim of the correct weight will be shipped out to me.
    So at this point, although I have been delayed in my wheel build, and still do not have one of my rims, it seems that at least Brian at Nextie is honorable and has the integrity to make the situation right.
    Of course I will post up if the rim is a no show, or if it is delayed in being shipped out.

    Mistakes happen, it is how the mistake is remedied that makes the difference.

  91. #6991
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    I finally caught up on reading all posts starting from around June 2014. YAY ME! I've earned a digital cookie.

    Thanks for all the great (and at times tedious) info here. My Light Bicycle 35 hookless rims with 3K matte finish should be here in 1-2 weeks (I ordered over New Year's).

    Using local builder with old hubs rear King 142x12 XD, front Hope. With advice from meltingfeather over PM I'll use DT revs, and from all the chatter here using brass nipples, all black. Wheel will be used on my new Niner RIP9 ROD.

    Desperately need new wheels. I've been resisting getting my currently wheels tuned up because the new wheels are on the way. Last ride my rear spokes were so lose I was washing out on fast hard turns. I tend to ride stuff into the ground.
    I thought of that while riding my bicycle. ~ Albert Einstein on the theory of relativity

  92. #6992
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    Warning... this is a bit of a random rant...
    Throughout this process I have learned that carbon rims can be made with different rim profile heights, widths, different rim bed profiles, sidewall heights, sidewall thickness, and you can get any combination in a specified weight/strength layup.
    During the most recent email exchange, Brian at Nextie said that they use different manufactures depending on the rim profile. It may be of good benefit to determine the riding/handling characteristics of each profile when builders are specing rims for riders.
    For example wider rims may have more torsional stiffness, deeper/taller profiles may have more radial stiffness, and a certain sidewall height/weight combination provide optimal durability and tire bead retention. Knowing these differences will help riders get the right hoop for their abilities, and help manufactures dial in their respective profiles.

    And If I wasn't nursing a broken leg I'd probably be more upset about the above mentioned rim weight mix up. At this point it just amounts to some additional follow up... But I am looking forward to getting my build together!

  93. #6993
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Dimitrin, rims of different profiles, widths, weights, strengths, etc have always existed before and after carbon. The same can be said for any single component or part where more than one option exists.

    Knowing or at least thinking you know these differences is key, but it is and will always be hard to find objective information for all products.


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  94. #6994
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    I base a lot of my buying decisions on communications before sale, while Nextie has answered my question about the NXT29H07 being offered but not on site they have not responded to recent emails. LB has always got back to me, one of the reasons I have the 30mm rim now from them.
    I just found out that my local bike shop now just pick-up Nextie rims, they have the fat bike rims in stock and have the 35mm wide 29er rims coming in soon. I will get a chance to look at, touch and weigh rims. The shop hold me the NXT29HO7 rim is being phased out but still have some in stock. Being able to buy from shop is a game changer for me, any problem I just deal with them. I still feel LB is better than Nextie, and that 38mm rim has a great profile but may just a bit too much rim for me. I have been waiting to see if any new rim profile show up soon, my Onyx Racing hubs are on the way. Can't wait for my new Pivot 429sl to get here.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-p1060799.jpg  


  95. #6995
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    They are trading companies. They are selling the same rims from the same manufacturers.
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  96. #6996
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    That maybe true but different companies can have a say on their quality control, and I thinks that's what set's them apart or any company apart. How far are they willing go to only sell the best possible end product.

  97. #6997
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgw7000 View Post
    I still feel LB is better than Nextie, and that 38mm rim has a great profile but may just a bit too much rim for me. I have been waiting to see if any new rim profile show up soon, my Onyx Racing hubs are on the way. Can't wait for my new Pivot 429sl to get here.
    Carbonbicycle has a new 36/30.8 rim at 390g. The 35/30 rims I got last year are problems free.

  98. #6998
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    Carbonbicycle has a new 36/30.8 rim at 390g. The 35/30 rims I got last year are problems free.
    I've ordered that rim. Time to try out "thin fatty" 27.5x3" tires... My current 26" 33/27 mm and 29er 35/30 mm have been exceptional for Thunder Burt tires.
    Cheers,
    -Mika

  99. #6999
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhelander View Post
    I've ordered that rim. Time to try out "thin fatty" 27.5x3" tires... My current 26" 33/27 mm and 29er 35/30 mm have been exceptional for Thunder Burt tires.
    I ordered some TBs from Germany. Prices are now pretty good. I'll be trying them on my 35/30.

  100. #7000
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    I ordered some TBs from Germany. Prices are now pretty good. I'll be trying them on my 35/30.
    Good tires on normal width rims but exceptionally rigid on loose gravel turns with wider rims. Prepare for some square feeling with front when on hard surfaces especially if groovy.
    Cheers,
    -Mika

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