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(Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

2M views 9K replies 1K participants last post by  chomxxo 
#1 ·
I've seen multiple discussions of carbon 29er frames, but no such discussion of 29er rims. Current domestic carbon rims are more expensive than one of these frames. Anybody found carbon 29er clincher rims cheap?
 
#3,267 ·
I know this has been in the thread, but i wasnt sure i was going to get some of these carbon wheels so I didn't take note of where it was but....Ihave a set of LB thinner 29 carbon wheels ordered expected to arrive in the next couple of days, and I want to do a stans tape Kind of tubeless. My question is.., what width tape should I use? And if anyone took note could they tell me where in the thread I can see this kind of info, I would be very greatful. I have read almost all of the pages here and am very thankful for all the great information
 
#3,269 ·
light-bicycle.com "new process" 29er wheels

Ordered these from light-bicycle.com 22nd January, USPS tried delivering them February 5th, actually got them on the 6th. Very good communication from Brian.

  • "Wider" 29" rim on new early 2013 mold/process
  • Novatec D711/D712 hubs
  • 32 spoke
  • Alloy nipples
  • No decals
Without tape, skewers etc. weights come in at 696g front and 840g rear. Seem nice and true, quick ping test suggests pretty even spoke tension. I'll be running these with tubes.

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#3,277 · (Edited)
Ordered these from light-bicycle.com 22nd January, USPS tried delivering them February 5th, actually got them on the 6th. Very good communication from Brian.

  • "Wider" 29" rim on new early 2013 mold/process
  • Novatec D711/D712 hubs
  • 32 spoke
  • Alloy nipples
  • No decals
Without tape, skewers etc. weights come in at 696g front and 840g rear. Seem nice and true, quick ping test suggests pretty even spoke tension. I'll be running these with tubes.
So one minor initial concern: these are an absolute bastard to get tires onto. In fact, I haven't successfully managed to get my tires on (Small Block 8 rear, Ignitor front). Bent one Park tire lever getting the Ignitor on only to have pinched the tube, and wasn't able to get the SB8 all the way on -- and that's a tire that's mountable without levers on my old rims.

Definitely the hardest to mount rims I've owned. Any tips for things that aren't likely to damage the carbon?

EDIT: The problem here was my technique. Once I followed the method suggested below (post #3280) the tires went on just fine.
 
#3,280 ·
Hate to tell you but it is probably your technique. Put the tire inside the rim with bead on both sides of the rim. Start away from the valve on one side and work the bead on in both directions until you get to the valve area. While using your thumb, pull the bead tight as though you are trying to pull the last bit over and on. While doing this take the other hand and run it around the rim pushing the bead into the center of the rim. As you do this the thumb should be taking up the new slack you are making. Now that the bead is in the channel, use both thumbs to put the last bit over the rim edge. Do the same procedure with the other side. This side will be harder because you will really have to push to get the bead down in the channel since the other bead is already there and you will have to push it out of the way to some extent.
I showed a guy that had been a mountain biker for 10 years and done many tires this technique and he was shocked at how much easier it was than what he had been doing. These rims with tape are easy to get the tires on. With Bontrager rim strips they are moderately hard, but no where near the hardest.
 
#3,282 ·
The other thought to consider is that your wheels were under-tensioned when they were built. I think I remember other people that bought the rims built up by the factory reporting that the tension was too low.
I built up and tensioned my rims myself and noticed the tension went down once I mounted and inflated the tires. So, although they are very stiff laterally, they do have vertical compliance (which is nice for the ride). Increasing the tension on an under-tensioned wheel would make it smaller in diameter and easier to put on a tire. By how much, I honestly don't know. And I'm not advocating increasing the tension just for that reason, but am thinking that if you are having so much trouble putting on a tire it may be worth at least confirming proper spoke tension.


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#3,284 ·
I built up the rear and it built up really nicely and was very easy to get true. High tension was really easy to get, but I am a little concerned I built it with higher than optimal tension. By the time I checked it and had it done, the drive side was at 148. I know they specify 180 as the limit in tension, but 148 is higher than I have ever built a wheel with. Is there any downside to leaving it that high?
 
#3,289 ·
It would be best to use normal tension with these rims. For one thing, there is no advantage to the higher tension. It won't make a noticeably stiffer wheel. In fact, wheel stiffness has almost nothing to do with tension as long as the spokes aren't loose. Also, there is the possibility of ripping the hub flange apart. I've personally witnessed that 3 times in my life. Ive also seen spokes ripped out of nipples and nipples pulled through rims. I can't say for sure that these failures happened due to too high of tension, but why take the chance? There really isn't a benefit to running higher tension.
 
#3,292 ·
The rims are rated for very high tension, but that is not the only consideration. The hubs are also rated and I would bet at a somewhat lower tension and the spokes are also rated although they probably are almost as high as the rims. That said, you need to find the rating for your hubs and let that be your guide. If you can't find that, I generally shoot for 20 on the Park guage on the "tight" side. I generally end up with the highest readings around 18-20 and the other side will generally end up around 10-16 depending on the offset, flange height , etc. The most likely problem with building too high tension is the flange breaking.
 
#3,294 ·
Regarding some hubs having a recommended max tension, as an example, here's an excerpt out of the Chris King hub manual:

Wheel building
[...] Disc brake wheels must be laced using a 3-or-more-cross lacing pattern. As the
torque generated by driving the cassette requires crossed spokes, so does the
additional torque on the non-drive side flange generated by the braking action.
Radial lacing your ISO hubs is considered outside of the intended use and will void
your warranty. [...]
The front ISO should be laced 3-or-more-cross with the rotor (left) side pulling spokes
(relative to braking direction) heads out/elbows in (when laced 3-cross). The final
cross of the pulling spoke must be on the outside so that, as braking force is applied,
increased pulling spoke tension will pull the crossed spokes towards the center of
the hub and away from the caliper. Lace the wheel symmetrically.
The spoke tension on each side of the wheel should be as uniform as possible.
Tension should not exceed 120kgf (1200N).
Proper wheel building technique is essential in creating a strong wheel. Wheel
building is a skill that requires proper training and specialized tools and should be done
by a trained professional.
Except from another part of the CK site:

In rare cases, when the wheel has been built at very high tension, the large drive side bearing can become loose and cause creaking.
 
#3,296 ·
Note that a max tensile force rating of the rim for spokes is not the same as the advisable spoke tension when building the wheel.
A "normal" spoke tension is about 110 kgf for the rear drive side and left front (when using disc hubs). Going (much) higher should not be needed (unloaded spokes during use will not detension completely) and will not make a stiffer wheel (this has been discussed at length on this forum).
 
#3,301 ·
I got my lb bike wheels a few days ago. They are thinner wheels 28 spoke front 32 rear novatec ds711 hubs. Total weight 1457. Dont have tires or a fork yet so cant really mount them up. But cosmetically they look amazing. Build quality looks great. am going to try and go tubeless using gorilla tape and maxxis ikons. Will post how it goes later
 

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#3,307 ·
I think he's looking for shops that have prebuilt wheels in stock. He doesn't seem to want to deal with having to acquire all the parts and get them built.

"Uh... any bike shop willing to build with parts they didn't sell? I know my favorite LBS (Endless Cycles in Castro Valley, CA) is more than willing to build you some wheels. "
 
#3,310 ·
So back on page 120 I asked about people running the NARROW rims TUBELESS.

I have ABSOLUTELY no interest in the wider rims, or the "benefits" of the wider rims. I give absolutely ZERO ****s about the wider rims. So Please, spare the "lectures" on the nature of wider rims and tires and resistance. I am exceedingly well-versed in the nature of those topics.

I am simply interested in whether or not anyone has anything notable to say about the reliability of the NARROW rims being run tubeless, preferably with Stan's tape or gorilla tape.

THANKS
 
#3,312 ·
So back on page 120 I asked about people running the NARROW rims TUBELESS.
I am simply interested in whether or not anyone has anything notable to say about the reliability of the NARROW rims being run tubeless, preferably with Stan's tape or gorilla tape.
THANKS
Because you ask so nicely, these were my xc 29 LB rims. Perhaps they have been changed in the meantime..
 

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#3,313 ·
Just thought I would share my light bicycle wheel and Novatec hub issues for the next guy....
I ordered the 29er wider 3K wheelset with the D711SB/D811SB hubs. If you want to convert the D711SB hubs for a 15mm RS maxle you need to remove the original axle (use the RS maxle instead) insert the Novatec crush sleeve between the bearings and add the correct Novatech 15mm end caps (correct may be tricky, I had to machine the ones I got).
The guys at the local bike shop here all got matte finish rims this summer. Half of them delaminated. Warranty covered them all. Word is 3K is the best. Sorry for repeating info, but 133 pages is a lot to read.
 
#3,318 ·
It's, "the customer-as-Q/C model is telling us something is wrong, so let's tweak some stuff and see if everything works out fine." Meanwhile money keeps rolling in...
The new batch of customers/Q/C should be an improvement over the last round. That's the definition of "iterative," isn't it? Testing, shmesting, if the guy with shrapnel in his leg from the first round is impressed, we're rockin'!
 
#3,317 ·
Interesting, thanks for posting the link.

Now if only they had done that high PSI testing prior to me blowing a rim apart, picking shrapnel from my leg, and cleaning stan's off of the ceiling. ;)

But in all seriousness, that looks like well executed, iterative engineering. Well done Light Bicycle!
 
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