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  1. #2951
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    The Rovals are apparently hand built according the the Spec website. My bad. Straight pull spokes provide less bracing angle and are not as stiff laterally which is the stiffness that I am referring to and that I want to maximize. All else being equal, wider rims would be stiffer and rims with a bead hook would be stiffer since that extra material at the end would stiffen the bead area up compared to no bead seat. The claim that they gain the stiffness back by having lateral fibers doesn't make a lot of sense to me since you could also use lateral fibers in a beadhook rim and the layup is up to the engineer with carbon wheels so anyone could use any layup they wanted. Sounds like marketing.

    The fact that they have no bead hook would be a deal killer for sure for me. I have blown a tire completely off a Stan's rim (which would flex a lot more, but still) and it will only take about one lawsuite and that idea will be over forever. Also, since the industry standard is for a beadhook the tire manufacturer will be able to put the entire blame on Specialized for any failure. The LB rims with the Trek rim strip hold the tires so tight that it is hard to break them off with zero air pressure. The fact that a couple of Spec engineers road rims around with no beadhook and didn't break anything gives me little reassurance and they probably only used their tires. The 25 psi lower limit would also be a deal breaker since on my 4 bikes my front pressures are 19, 20, 23, 23 and the rears are 23, 24, 27, 26. so only 2 of my 8 positions could even consider these rims.

    The warranty is only as good as Specialized makes it: Roval Carbon Wheel Problems - Topic
    And you are totally at their mercy with regards to the interpretation of said warranty. While this guy is not the sharpest knife in the drawer, what he did is something that a rim engineer should consider that some of their customers might do with a wheel. The fact that blowing tires off is a known problem and that the rim gave up way before the tire also gives me pause. The fact that it was Georgia and not the Alps or the Pyrenees or the Rockies also makes me think the Spec should replace this guys wheel.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  2. #2952
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire_strom View Post
    So does having Specialized seats on a Salsa, a Santa Cruz and a Pivot make them all jake. Do the Roval wheels on the Santa Cruz balance out the jakeness or make it double jake?

    That's all nonsense.
    G
    There is definitely a high level of personal preference involved with matching components. I would never put Audi rims on a GTI and for sure would never have my stem and seat post different brands.

  3. #2953
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepo5669 View Post
    You are right. I followed the instructions to a T on my first set and overlapped the valve hole.

    Either that, or we are nuts.
    That is definitely what used to be on the notubes site. The main thing is to overlap it a few inches in one place or another so it will be secure...makes no difference where.

  4. #2954
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    Hi guys
    Does the wider Nancy 29" rim make the tire wider once mounted to the rim?
    I do not have a lot of clearance at the chainstays of my Scott Scale 29'er and am wondering if a wider rim will reduce the clearance even further?

  5. #2955
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post
    There is definitely a high level of personal preference involved with matching components. I would never put Audi rims on a GTI and for sure would never have my stem and seat post different brands.
    Ok.

  6. #2956
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    Last edited by erikrc10; 01-02-2013 at 12:13 AM.

  7. #2957
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark10 View Post
    Hi guys
    Does the wider Nancy 29" rim make the tire wider once mounted to the rim?
    I do not have a lot of clearance at the chainstays of my Scott Scale 29'er and am wondering if a wider rim will reduce the clearance even further?
    Yes it will.

  8. #2958
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post
    There is definitely a high level of personal preference involved with matching components. I would never put Audi rims on a GTI and for sure would never have my stem and seat post different brands.
    Thank goodness my "Jake" has the same brand stem and post.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/6886940754/" title="JET profile 2012 by BBcamerata, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7050/6886940754_5c42d73d36_c.jpg" width="800" height="490" alt="JET profile 2012"></a>

    Rovals, a Salsa handlebar, SRAM shifters and rear derailleur mixed with a DuraAce FD, a RaceFace crankset with Rotor Q Rings, and my gosh - a Bontrager bottle cage, a WTB saddle and heaven forbid - tires from Schwalbe!!! And uh oh.....my fork is a RockShox and the rear suspension is Fox.

    If you think Jake is a major faux pas, you out to see Jake Junior....

  9. #2959
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    Bike looks good, but your house is missing a piece of siding to the right of the door and your door jamb is starting to rot. smile

  10. #2960
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    Jake off

    Dude, I can't believe you'd have your downspout empty onto your hardscape. That is SO jake!
    I dreamed I ate a 10 lb marshmallow. When I awoke, my pillow was gone.

  11. #2961
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlennard View Post
    Bike looks good, but your house is missing a piece of siding to the right of the door and your door jamb is starting to rot. smile
    Yup.

    The little piece of fake "siding" was never there to begin with when the house was built. The rot is actually just paint peeling that is on the "to do list" for this summer. It was painted too quickly in high humidity conditions after we got hit by this SOB in July of 2010.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/4830596450/" title="Indianola Tornado 7/23/2010 by BBcamerata, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4099/4830596450_a4b78854e9_m.jpg" width="240" height="160" alt="Indianola Tornado 7/23/2010"></a>

    In the high humidity, it didn't cure properly. I don't think anything dried out that summer it was so wet. It will need some good attention this summer for sure.

    Edit: I just went outside to shovel some snow and chop some ice. It's rot alright. The entire paint is now cracked all around the frame from the sub zero temperatures.


    Summer project coming up....

    Downspout is an extra one I had installed after the tornado to help with water overflow in the "once every 50 year rains" we seem to be getting 3 times every year in the past 6 years now with global warming. And yes, I want it on the hardscape to keep it out of my lawn. Iowa is the new gulf of Mexico climate. Things have been so saturated here for years that nobody's lawn needs any additional water from downspouts. I put about a year's salary into French Drains, new high volume flow gutters and downspouts, additional sump-pump and interior drainage system, got a permit to run the new sump-pump discharge directly into the city's storm sewer, etc... .

    All that - and then we had a drought in 2012.

    So, I ride and live a Jake.
    Last edited by BruceBrown; 01-02-2013 at 10:03 AM.

  12. #2962
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    Jake on!
    -G

  13. #2963
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    deleted...sounded too mean.
    Last edited by mtroy; 01-02-2013 at 03:21 PM.
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    West Coast writer for twentynineinches.com

  14. #2964
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    Spark10 it will hold the tires wider than Arch rims but about the same as Crest rims even though these rims are wider than Crest, the Stans bead seat does a better job of holding a tire wide. You didn't say wider compared to what so this might help you get an idea.
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  15. #2965
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    How to break the bead?

    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    The LB rims with the Trek rim strip hold the tires so tight that it is hard to break them off with zero air pressure.
    I have the same experience with my Bonty rim strips on Bonty wheels- I can't break it loose! Any tips?
    I dreamed I ate a 10 lb marshmallow. When I awoke, my pillow was gone.

  16. #2966
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    Thumb exercises! Seriously, you just have to push real hard with both thumbs. But the good news is, you are never going to burp one of these babies!
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  17. #2967
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    Where can I get some carbon thumbs?

    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    Thumb exercises! Seriously, you just have to push real hard with both thumbs. But the good news is, you are never going to burp one of these babies!
    I'm an older guy with frail, slender hands, and my thumbs just can't get it done. I get it done by putting the tire in a vise and tilting the wheel sideways until it pops, but that's not going to help me trailside.
    I dreamed I ate a 10 lb marshmallow. When I awoke, my pillow was gone.

  18. #2968
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    Brace the wheel across a tree limb and step gently on the tire.
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  19. #2969
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    IF you ride in the desert and no tree limbs lay the wheel across your other (hopefully inflated) tire and step on the deflated tire.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  20. #2970
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    Good idea! Plenty of tree limbs around here...too many in fact.
    I dreamed I ate a 10 lb marshmallow. When I awoke, my pillow was gone.

  21. #2971
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    N.m. I'm an idiot.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-park-pts-1_001.jpg  


  22. #2972
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appendage View Post
    I'm an older guy with frail, slender hands, and my thumbs just can't get it done. I get it done by putting the tire in a vise and tilting the wheel sideways until it pops, but that's not going to help me trailside.
    You might consider (if not already doing) bringing along stans fluid, a valve stem core remover, and an injector for trailside repairs to seal leaks.

  23. #2973
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    You omitted an air compressor from your list. I just carry a tube. Come to think of it, even tho I have difficulty breaking the bead loose at home, it hasn't been a problem trailside. Perhaps by the time I notice I've flat and find a place to pull over, the bead dislodges itself.
    I dreamed I ate a 10 lb marshmallow. When I awoke, my pillow was gone.

  24. #2974
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post
    There is definitely a high level of personal preference involved with matching components. I would never put Audi rims on a GTI and for sure would never have my stem and seat post different brands.
    That's a much better way to say it, rather than call someone lazy and half-assed who disagrees with your approach.

  25. #2975
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    I just use Yellow tape with Stans rims and install a tube if my above fix does not seal up. With the yellow tape and whatever type of tires (I usually use non tubeless Maxxis for the rear and a TR Racing Ralph 2.4 in the front) they are easily unseated by hand. I think I will start using the Gorilla Tape (just because it is so much more readily available and less expensive). A CO^2 Cartridge (on the trail) will normally blow the tire up just fine and then you can top it off with a pump if needed.

  26. #2976
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh View Post
    That's a much better way to say it, rather than call someone lazy and half-assed who disagrees with your approach.


    According to online research of the meaning of "jake", I find this....

    adjective

    in good standing.

    in good standing, or at the least without conflict.

    Now that you've paid up, we're jake.

    alright, fine.

    If you want to, that's jake with me.

    I'm jake with that.

    generally displeasing.

    That game is totally jake.

    good, well, satisfactory.

    By his broad smile I knew all was jake.

    noun

    a police officer.

    There sure are a lot of jakes out tonight.


    general derogatory term for another person.

    That foo ain't nothin' but a Jake.

    verb - intransitive

    to fake an injury, to hang back in play, to malinger, to loaf

    "Everyone on the team is trying except Joe. He's jaking it."



    That's the problem with slang, it takes on whatever meaning the user wants it to take. Of the submitted definitions, 4 of the descriptions as an adjective are positive and 1 is negative. Adroit Rider used the slang term jake as an adjective in the following sentence:

    I also think Spesh wheels on a non Spesh bike are jake.

    This, of course, would be the "generally displeasing" definition from the Online Slang Dictionary.

    If we choose another description of the adjective jake from the Online Slang Dictionary, the same sentence could mean in good standing, alright, fine, good, well, satisfactory.

    Changes the meaning entirely, but evidently is also acceptable. So the same exact sentence said by me with regard to my JET 9....

    I also think Spesh wheels on a non Spesh bike are jake. would be good, fine.

  27. #2977
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    ... Straight pull spokes provide less bracing angle and are not as stiff laterally which is the stiffness that I am referring to and that I want to maximize....
    I assume that straight pull is the same as radially laced spokes and will will question that this lacing give less lateral stiffness. Actually, I think it is opposite: the fewer crossings, the stiffer wheel, both radially and laterally. There could be other disadvantages with radial lacing, but stiffness is not a problem.
    Last edited by ErikGBL; 01-04-2013 at 02:01 AM.

  28. #2978
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    Anyone gets a full wheelset with novatec hubs? They have a 28mm ext wider and weights 1750g.. The hubs weight 400g and the spokes 6,5g each (450g per 64set)... Is it a good business?

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  29. #2979
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErikGBL View Post
    [ I assume that straight pull is the same as radially laced spokes and will will question that this lacing give less lateral stiffness. Actually, I think it is opposite: the fewer crossings, the stiffer wheel, both radially and laterally. There could be other disadvantages with radial lacing, but stiffness is not a problem.
    Straight-pull or j-bend is a separate concept from lacing pattern. Either can be laced in a variety of ways. The exception is that straight pull hubs have to be manufactured with a particular lacing pattern in mind.

    As for number of crosses, zero cross (radial lacing) is definitely less stiff rotationaly. It is relatively easy to rotate a radially laced hub while the rim stays still. This is why radial lacing isn't used with disc brakes and is typically only used on one side of the wheel even with rim brakes.

    I've noticed that th LB rims are thicker than aluminum rims where each nipple passes through. This keeps the nipple extremely straight, always pointed exactly radially. This results in a bend each spoke directly at the nipple when using a typical 3-cross pattern. A minor benefit is that it seems to help spokes resist wind up while lacing.

  30. #2980
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    Quote Originally Posted by ftajiri View Post
    Anyone gets a full wheelset with novatec hubs? They have a 28mm ext wider and weights 1750g.. The hubs weight 400g and the spokes 6,5g each (450g per 64set)... Is it a good business?

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    Mine is suppose to get here today. Will post weights, pictures, etc as soon as I can.

  31. #2981
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    [QUOTE=ErikGBL;10035407]I assume that straight pull is the same as radially laced spokes/QUOTE]
    Why?
    Straight pull MTB wheels are cross-patterned, not radial.

    He's talking about lateral bracing angle, which is affected by the chunky spoke-to-hub connections required for straight pull.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  32. #2982
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    They arrived this morning! They came in at 1696 grams (948 for the rear and 748 for the front). I gave them a quick check and everything looked good. I just dropped them off at Carolina Bike Mechanic to make sure everything is tensioned right and that everything looked okay. I have to work tonight so I will pick them up first thing tomorrow morning.

  33. #2983
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    a new bike is coming.
    Quote Originally Posted by erikrc10 View Post
    They arrived this morning! They came in at 1696 grams (948 for the rear and 748 for the front). I gave them a quick check and everything looked good. I just dropped them off at Carolina Bike Mechanic to make sure everything is tensioned right and that everything looked okay. I have to work tonight so I will pick them up first thing tomorrow morning.

  34. #2984
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    Quote Originally Posted by ftajiri View Post
    Anyone gets a full wheelset with novatec hubs? They have a 28mm ext wider and weights 1750g.. The hubs weight 400g and the spokes 6,5g each (450g per 64set)... Is it a good business?

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    novatec D711/712SB hub + sapim Delta spokes and sapim nipples, weight: 1400g /pair, super light? what do you think.

  35. #2985
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    Anyone laced them with Titanium spokes? Does it make sense? I mean, super stiff rims with more "flexible" spokes...

  36. #2986
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    Ti spokes are a waste of money. I would definitely want stainless in the front for stiffness reasons. I guess if someone couldn't get enough compliance from their rear tire and seat post and frame and seat, they could make a case in the rear (pun intended).

    Basically, not as stiff, not as reliable, way more expensive.
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  37. #2987
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    When you have 15mm front axle compatibility, let us know

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason.MT View Post
    novatec D711/712SB hub + sapim Delta spokes and sapim nipples, weight: 1400g /pair, super light? what do you think.
    When you have 15mm front axle compatibility, let us know
    I dreamed I ate a 10 lb marshmallow. When I awoke, my pillow was gone.

  38. #2988
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    Got my bike all setup today. This was my first attempt going tubeless and it was a snap. Much easier than people made it sound. I had no problem getting the bead to seat on my Nevegals with the use of a little soapy water. They are still a little weepy but I'm hoping everything will be sealed up tomorrow for the first real ride. I haven't really ridden in two months due to being out of the country and then tacoing my wheel on my second ride home. So I don't have the best baseline for what the bike felt like before since it's been so long but the bike felt lighter and snappier on the quick sprint up and down the street.

    Also, the freehub is steel and NOT aluminum. It's different than the ones speced on Novatec's website. I actually prefer that since I had a spare SLX cassette laying around that I can now use without worrying about it causing damage.

    The bike got a cleaning along with a new cassette and chain today. It's going to be a happy bike when I take it out tomorrow. I'm also throwing in the towel on these awful Elixer brakes. I'm ordering some XT brakes later tonight. That will leave the only real thing left that I want to upgrade is to carbon bars. Those will wait awhile though.

    Will post some pictures of them out in the wild tomorrow if I get a chance.


    20130104_133206 by ErikRC10, on Flickr

    20130105_122556 by ErikRC10,

    20130105_202732

  39. #2989
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    There's more talk of galvanic corrosion between aluminum nipples and carbon fiber on another thread. It seems there have been alot of carbon wheels built w/ aluminum nipples and I haven't heard of alot of failures due to galvanic corrosion. Any more thoughts from the experts? TIA.

  40. #2990
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    Do brass nipples corrode alloy rims if you ride them through slushie roads laced with deicing salts or taken for dips in salt water? Or do steel spokes corrode aluminum nipples or hubs? Why so paranoid? What's the worst case scenario?

  41. #2991
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason.MT View Post
    novatec D711/712SB hub + sapim Delta spokes and sapim nipples, weight: 1400g /pair, super light? what do you think.
    Wide rim? 32h? Nice weight

  42. #2992
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    Aluminum nipples that are annodized (colored and most clear ones) would be very resistant to galvanic corrosion with carbon wheels and stainless spokes. I could see where long term aluminum nipples would probably suffer from galvanic corrosion between stainless spokes (or ti spokes for that matter) and carbon rims. But in most usage situations they should last for many years. Brass nipples should last a lifetime being all but immune to corrosion.
    Having an inboard ski boat I know that they used to make propellers out of brass but now they make them out of nibril which is nickel, aluminum, and brass. They are stronger than brass (can be made thinner) lighter than brass, and never corrode. They are not as light as aluminum but much stronger so I would nominate nibril as a good material to make nipples out of other than the fact that it is probably hard to "work". Besides, I just love saying "nibril nipples".
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  43. #2993
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    I'm thinking of getting the regular Non-wide light rims for xc racing and I was wondering if they can be run tubeless very well. Also seems like most people are getting the Wider rims is there anyone who can Comment on the non-wide version of the rims? strength.stiffness
    Thanks

  44. #2994
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    First ride impressions:

    I will start off by saying this was basically my first ride in 3 months. I left the country for a month at the beginning of October and on my second ride after I got back tacoed my front wheel. I then spent a long time trying to decide what I wanted to do, whether it be just get a new rim or buy a new wheelset. I finally decided on the wheelset.

    I have to say these wheels are awesome! Even with my weak legs and lungs I was flying up the hills. I never felt sluggish on the climb, where as before when things got steep it would feel like the bike was pulling itself to a stop. I shaved 500g off my old wheelset, before going tubeless. So in total these wheels setup tubeless weigh less than 3/4 of my old wheels with tubes. All that weight being gone made technical climbs a breeze as well. The only limiting factor was my legs, no riding in 3 months will really put the hurt on. The stiffness was very noticeable as well, the steering was lightening quick. It went where ever I pointed it. That being said I don't really notice much flex as it is. I'm just under 6' and weigh about 145lbs with all my gear on so things have to be pretty weak to flex under me. I took it somewhat easy on the downs, mainly because I had lost some of my mojo with being off the bike so long. I was a little nervous to try and do tailwhips and the like as well because of how tiny the Novatec rear hub is, just makes me a little cautious. I'm sure I will get past that with another couple rides though.

    Also, TUBELESS! Man I should have done that a looong time ago. I kept telling myself I would do it with my next set of tires and I never got around to it. The tires were so supple without a tube being in there. Gravel roads and little rocks just disappeared. It was amazing, that's not something I was really expecting. At least not to that degree. The Nevegals still haven't sealed up all the way so they had lost a bit of pressure by the end of the ride, but nothing major. For those of you out there that still haven't gone tubeless, do it!


    I have a question about spoke tension on carbon wheels. I took them to my mechanic (really just more of my wheel guy) to get them checked out and he said that they looked good but the spoke tension seemed a bit low. He said not knowing the spec on the wheels and not working much with carbon wheels in general he didn't want to mess with it since everything else looked good. So my question is, do carbon rims usually have a lower spoke tension than aluminium rims?

  45. #2995
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    Not these.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  46. #2996
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    Heh....

    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post
    There is definitely a high level of personal preference involved with matching components. I would never put Audi rims on a GTI and for sure would never have my stem and seat post different brands.
    I have VW Eos wheels on my Audi. Looks pretty sweet, if I do say so myself... even looks factory. Of course, I substituted the VW center caps with Audi ones. The car needed tires, and I found these new take-offs on craigslist for cheaper than new tires, plus I bumped it from 15" rims with 65 aspect tires to 17s with 45 aspect. All I had to do was to get the tires remounted and balanced... and three of them were spot on balanced out with no weights.

    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/aVtUhKuHIBQ0tjyDPGoTc9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-alhruUeki7s/T5A0qgwWRDI/AAAAAAAAcgo/G-MgbUzitlY/s800/IMG_3067.JPG" height="600" width="800" /></a>

    Point is, these are not coveted collector's items, like a 1970 GTO with matching serial numbers...that sorta thing. No need to get bogged down too much on useless details... unless you really want to, I guess. meh...
    Last edited by pimpbot; 01-07-2013 at 12:53 AM.

  47. #2997

  48. #2998
    4 Niners
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    No price and not that light.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  49. #2999
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    i bought a set for my road bike and have put over a 500 miles on them with no problem... I have been thinking about buying a set since the price is so good just to see how they hold up.

  50. #3000
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    Ok, I have been using the wider AM rims on my Rocky Mountain element for about half a year now. I got rather heavy rims (400g/each) and laced them 3-cross with 64 Sapim D-light spokes and alu nipples to Hope Evo 2 hubs (20mm front/142-12 rear). The building process went without any problems. I ride in pretty muddy and rooty beech and firtree forests. I got the rims mainly for the low weight and wider tire footprint. I run them tubeless like most people do, with Bontrager rimstrips. I use my homebrew tubeless solution and Maxxis tires.

    Brian was very helpful and I would do the same thing all over again.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-imag0411-1.jpg  


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