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  1. #301
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    Jan. 28th

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    I have a tracking #!!!
    When did you order? I ordered feb 1st but no tracking no yet :-(

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    Jan. 28th
    Cool, there is hope then ;-). Also hoping UD being weakest translates into being lightest, but that might be wishful thinking

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by figo View Post
    Cool, there is hope then ;-). Also hoping UD being weakest translates into being lightest, but that might be wishful thinking
    I sincerely don't think there's anything to worry about on that front. The finish is basically just aesthetic. To say there's "no" difference between them wouldn't be accurate, but I think "negligible" would probably be a word to slide in there somehow. Like, "the strength differences between the 3 outlooks is negligible. It's all UD under the hood - the top layer is applied for aesthetic purposes only".

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehschkott View Post
    I sincerely don't think there's anything to worry about on that front. The finish is basically just aesthetic. To say there's "no" difference between them wouldn't be accurate, but I think "negligible" would probably be a word to slide in there somehow. Like, "the strength differences between the 3 outlooks is negligible. It's all UD under the hood - the top layer is applied for aesthetic purposes only".
    That's exactly how I thought it to be after reading quite a bit about carbon wheels. Then again, I agree at best/worst is a marginal difference but still surprising to them making that kind of statement. My Tallboy is AD as well, and it has been great, so I'm not worrying :-D

  6. #306
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    I want to order these, but I want to see some pics of the UD matte finish.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehschkott View Post
    I sincerely don't think there's anything to worry about on that front. The finish is basically just aesthetic. To say there's "no" difference between them wouldn't be accurate, but I think "negligible" would probably be a word to slide in there somehow. Like, "the strength differences between the 3 outlooks is negligible. It's all UD under the hood - the top layer is applied for aesthetic purposes only".
    Yep, I agree.

    I ordered on Jan 29 and Nancy said she would be sending a tracking number today. A little bit longer than the original 7 days for manufacture quote, but no worries.

    I had asked to keep the rim bed unfinished and Nancy kept to that promise to the affect that it ended up costing an extra day. They sprayed the matte finish on the rim bed and she had them sand it off, lol. I told her not to worry about it, but it was too late. Communication on Nancy's part has been excellent.

  8. #308
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    ktm520, Why did you keep the rim beed unfinished? I thought I read elsewhere in the post, that finishing the bead was preferred?

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by figo View Post
    That's exactly how I thought it to be after reading quite a bit about carbon wheels. Then again, I agree at best/worst is a marginal difference but still surprising to them making that kind of statement. My Tallboy is AD as well, and it has been great, so I'm not worrying :-D
    You have to realize that she is regurgitating what the engineers tell her and then there is the language barrier. I took that as a very, very weak statement. A lot of the name brand carbon rim makers use a UD finish, Reynolds and Enve to name a few.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccornacc View Post
    ktm520, Why did you keep the rim beed unfinished? I thought I read elsewhere in the post, that finishing the bead was preferred?
    Well, what I specifically told her was that I did not want extra clear coat on the rim bed as some folks had been asking for and that their standard process would suffice. I don't have the rims yet, so I don't know exactly what they did. Other than weight, it wouldn't make a difference either way.

    Someone posted that tubelss sealant will degrade the carbon/epoxy matrix, but there is no truth to this. Another case of forum misinformation.

  11. #311
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    My rims should be here early next week. Got the hubs and spokes ready for my guy at the LBS to lace up.
    Will post up weights/pics when rims arrive and after wheels are built.
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  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    You have to realize that she is regurgitating what the engineers tell her and then there is the language barrier. I took that as a very, very weak statement. A lot of the name brand carbon rim makers use a UD finish, Reynolds and Enve to name a few.
    I find the companies that DO NOT use UD are harder to find. Every bar, stem, seat post and frame coming through seems to be UD.
    I am immune to your disdain.

  13. #313
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    Guess what came today!

    WOW, my rims shipped out Monday and arrived today!
    I got the wider 29er 3K matte, weights: 382/385
    Cosmetically they look perfect.
    Getting them laced up this week to AC hubs and Supercomps.
    Will post final weight when built
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  14. #314
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    Very very nice.

  15. #315
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    I second that. The more I have been following this thread the more these rims looks like something I NEED for my bike. It has gone far beyond wanting.

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by bquinn View Post
    wow, my rims shipped out monday and arrived today!
    I got the wider 29er 3k matte, weights: 382/385
    cosmetically they look perfect.
    Getting them laced up this week to ac hubs and supercomps.
    Will post final weight when built
    badass

  17. #317
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    [QUOTE=bquinn;8994992]WOW, my rims shipped out Monday and arrived today!
    I got the wider 29er 3K matte, weights: 382/385
    QUOTE]

    That beats the 400g from their website. Let us know what the ERD is when you get them measured. Someone said its 603.

  18. #318
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    you guys are killing me. i had to do it

    just got off the ole IM chat with Nancy...

    $155 per rim now, they are backed up a week with all the orders. $60 for shipping to the US.

    these rims look, and are almost the same exact spec, as my carbon Roval rims. I'll be able to tell for sure when i get them. she wouldn't admit to making rims for Specilzd, but they do make frames for them she said. Hmmmm.. we'll see!

  19. #319
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    Mine should be here today/tomorrow. I'll weigh them and post pics before I ship them off to have them built up

  20. #320
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    [QUOTE=red5jedi;8996443]
    Quote Originally Posted by bquinn View Post
    WOW, my rims shipped out Monday and arrived today!
    I got the wider 29er 3K matte, weights: 382/385
    QUOTE]

    That beats the 400g from their website. Let us know what the ERD is when you get them measured. Someone said its 603.
    Hello Jonathan,

    The ERD is 603mm, and the max spoke tension is 180kfg.

    We only make frames for specialized, but no rims.

    Thanks,
    nancy

    Last edited by DFYFZX; 02-13-2012 at 12:16 AM.

  21. #321
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    [QUOTE=DFYFZX;8998890][QUOTE=red5jedi;8996443]

    see previous post for the correct information

    /QUOTE]

    Earlier in the thread indyfab mentioned he had measure 603, but all in all close enough. Mine should be shipped today so another week of waiting. The weight difference I've read in the thread is quite big, from 380 grams to 420, let's hope I'm in the light batch
    Last edited by figo; 02-13-2012 at 12:26 AM.

  22. #322
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    I just corrected my post. I double checked my email from Nancy and posted it in it's entirety for you guys

  23. #323
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    Weight sounds very, very low, even lower than Enve's. Would love to hear how they compare to more standard aluminum rims in terms of rigidity.
    Straw poll- how confident do you all feel that these rims are solid equipment meant to last?
    undefined Absolutely must have: Black Machine Tech Zeroflex brake levers (the ones with the rotating leverage adjuster)

  24. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by uphiller View Post
    Weight sounds very, very low, even lower than Enve's. Would love to hear how they compare to more standard aluminum rims in terms of rigidity.
    Straw poll- how confident do you all feel that these rims are solid equipment meant to last?
    Time will tell. At this price as long as I get a solid couple years I'll be happy.
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  25. #325
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    Their stiffness is what I want to know. If they are stiff, they would be a worthy upgrade from the crests on my race wheels.

    Flexy and I'm not interested. But I feel like these would be way stiffer than an aluminum rim of similar weight.

    Any first hand experience?
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  26. #326
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    Lighter and wider than Enve? Hmz, I'm starting to get worried...

  27. #327
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    i ride both crests and carbon roval's. i'm not a heavy rider by any stretch, and i try and go easy on the gear... with that being said, my roval's are noticeably a stiffer rim/better ride than my crests. i've managed to bend/ding one or two crest rims in the past year. i did cause a bit of cosmetic damage to my rear roval rim, but that was my fault... hit a rock on a almost flat tire during a race. i'm pretty sure the hit would have eaten a crest. i'm still riding on it with no problems. just damaged the 'cosmetic' outer layer.

    my guess is these rims are damn near the same as my roval rims. if i munch and/or crack one... i'll replace it with a crest, it's damn near the same ERD, just swap the rim. yeah.. i could get it warrantied, blah, blah, blah... but why bother? at their pricepoint, it's worth the risk me thinks

  28. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by two-one View Post
    Lighter and wider than Enve? Hmz, I'm starting to get worried...
    Nope, they are coming in 10-40 grams heavier than the ENVE depending on who weighs them and yes they are alittle wider but the profile is 20MM compared to the 32MM of the ENVE. I am sure that the ENVE are much better as ENVE makes some of the best wheels out there but I am sure they will be comparable to other carbon wheels.

    I am waiting for graphics before I put in my order but I am not concerned. I think they will be much stiffer than Crest at about the same weight. Even if they do fail down the road the ERD is the same as crest so I can always swap rims latter with the same spokes. I don't feel that I will have to do that but the option will always be there.
    Are you a road biker that likes hills? Try this Michigan Mountain Mayhem.

  29. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by "Fred" View Post
    Nope, they are coming in 10-40 grams heavier than the ENVE depending on who weighs them and yes they are alittle wider but the profile is 20MM compared to the 32MM of the ENVE. I am sure that the ENVE are much better as ENVE makes some of the best wheels out there but I am sure they will be comparable to other carbon wheels.
    FWIW I'm seeing the 24mm (external) ENVE XC rims listed at 385g, and the 30mm AM ENVE listed at 440g...
    Welcome to Enve Composites

  30. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigfootDenny View Post
    FWIW I'm seeing the 24mm (external) ENVE XC rims listed at 385g, and the 30mm AM ENVE listed at 440g...
    Welcome to Enve Composites
    OK I did look at the weight of the XC and I should have looked at the AM with a more comparable width. So they are lighter but the profile is still 50% shorter so I still think they will be Fine.
    Are you a road biker that likes hills? Try this Michigan Mountain Mayhem.

  31. #331
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    Cant wait for more pics of laced up wheels.

    I also wonder if they could make a 650b version.

  32. #332
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    Anyone looking to get these should give a listen to the Two John's Podcast from February 9, 2012 starting at 19:12 there is an interview with Jason Schiers of Enve Composites.

    Two Johns website
    "When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous,when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." - Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

  33. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by gossejp View Post
    Anyone looking to get these should give a listen to the Two John's Podcast from February 9, 2012 starting at 19:12 there is an interview with Jason Schiers of Enve Composites.

    Two Johns website
    I have skepticism both for 150 dollars Chinese carbon rims, and for the opinions of people who sell 900 dollar carbon rims about said 150 dollar carbon rims.
    undefined Absolutely must have: Black Machine Tech Zeroflex brake levers (the ones with the rotating leverage adjuster)

  34. #334
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    I've ridden extensively on Chinese carbon road rims (50mm). I have found them to be a great bargain carbon wheelset, unless a lot of descending was going on. The Chinese carbon rims still have issues with reliable braking surfaces. However, this is taken care of by having disc brakes. I weighed 190-225 lbs (225 when I started, 190 by the time I handed them off to a friend) during the testing of these wheels and they were great all around wheels. I'm very excited to build these 29er rims up into a competitive (as far as weight goes) 29er disc wheelset.

  35. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by uphiller View Post
    I have skepticism both for 150 dollars Chinese carbon rims, and for the opinions of people who sell 900 dollar carbon rims about said 150 dollar carbon rims.
    Yes!

  36. #336
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    marmotman- How long did you ride the Chinese rims? What conditions did you ride in? Tell us everything!
    undefined Absolutely must have: Black Machine Tech Zeroflex brake levers (the ones with the rotating leverage adjuster)

  37. #337
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    I rode them for about 6 months, periodically switching out to Dura Ace C24s. In total I probably put around 2,000 miles on them. I hit 60 mph on a straight descent during LOTOJA and they were fantastic for that course (no twisty descents, just pretty straight, fast descents). I primarily rode them in the Bay Area with lots of hills and lots of wind and some rain for good measure. The wheels climbed very wheel, even better than the Kysirium Sl's that they replaced. In the rain, braking was terrible, but as I said, I'm looking forward to the disc versions. In dry conditions, they tended to get real warm which forced me to pull over and wait on long twisty decents (Mt. Tam, particularly the last steep section before dropping down into Sausalito). I must caveat this by saying I used crappy carbon pads. I purchased the yellow swiss stop pads, but never got a chance to use them on the rims. My buddy that has them now is going to try the pads out and see how much of a difference they make. I was very surprised in the stiffness of the wheels. During intervals they performed very well. I've been in discussions with the manufacturer and they have really improved the breaking surface on their tubular verions, but haven't made much improvements with the clinchers. I want to try the blue reynolds pads on the clinchers though, that may make a difference. I first had these on an Orbea Orca and then a BH G5. For flats and any areas without long twist descents I highly recommend them.
    Last edited by marmotman; 02-13-2012 at 05:51 PM. Reason: adding info

  38. #338
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    I haven't listen to the podcast yet, but what do you expect Enve to say about these rims?? Oh, those cheap carbon rims should be a great bargain, go buy them instead of our 900$ rims.

    Comparing the weight of these rims to Enve is pointless (apples to oranges when it comes to composite parts). Its pretty well been established that they are untested and nobody here is try to say otherwise.

    I'm both nervous and excited to try my rims, which will be here this week. I've already accepted the fact that its a gamble.

  39. #339
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    Got mine today=) I tried to take pictures but my camera blows... I weighed them on my hanging scale and my Park scale. Weight for #1 was 4.00kg on the hanging and 397gr on the Park. #2 was 3.90kg and 391gr. Sending them off tomorrow to have them built up!

  40. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    Got mine today=) I tried to take pictures but my camera blows... I weighed them on my hanging scale and my Park scale. Weight for #1 was 4.00kg on the hanging and 397gr on the Park. #2 was 3.90kg and 391gr. Sending them off tomorrow to have them built up!
    Who are you having build them up? I would like to find a good source to have my wheels built. Don't really want to catch the flack I would get at my LBS for trying these...

    Also, what hub do you guys think would be best in-expensive but reliable hub to have good engagement, lightweight and the capability to do a 10mm thru bolt in the rear and a 15mm thru axle up front? Would also like red-ano but not a deal killer.

    What are the best spokes to build these with?

  41. #341
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    I always use Chad at RedBarn. Awesome guy, excellent builder and cuts pretty good deals on parts if you buy from him and have him build them.

    Cheap, adaptable, quality and red sounds like Stans hubs to me... Stans or Hope Pro2 EVO line.

  42. #342
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    The erd of a 29 crest is 605.

    The erd of one of these carbon rims accoding to the 3rd page is 603.

    Is this correct?

    What do yall think would be the spoke length difference between these two rims? 3x?


    ***Edit***

    The difference between spoke lengths would be about .5mm per 1 change in ERD.

    So 2 erd difference is 1mm of spoke length change
    Last edited by Sheepo5669; 02-13-2012 at 09:04 PM.
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  43. #343
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    I purchased one rim AM version, 392g. (30mm outside and 23 mm inside)

    I have a roval rim to compare. 362g (28mm outside and 21mm inside)

    Both have 20 mm profile and both have 603 erd.

    I've already order 2 others rim to build it on my powertap and on my 240's rear. The front will be the roval with specialized oem hi-lo flange (OS28mm end cap) Spokes will be supercomp except for the powertap, I will put competition. I expect 1540ish grams for the wheelset.(dt and specialized hub tuned to 172g, both are rws 10mm)

    It's my first post so, i will add picture via link: tell me witch one is the roval?

    imageshack.us/photo/my-images/404/rimcarbone002.jpg
    mat g

  44. #344
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    I built a set of Hong Fu road carbon road clinchers up a few month ago and they are great. Finish quality was very nice and they've been bulletproof for a 1000 miles. I even hit a pothole hard enough to rotate my bars and nothing. It's the beginning of the end for over priced carbon components. The only people who will be buying the Enve type stuff are the same people who buy and try to justify $400.00 Assos shorts.
    "Do not touch the trim"

  45. #345
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    Enve
    Last edited by bt; 02-15-2012 at 06:27 AM.

  46. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by mucky View Post
    The rims look the same as the Chinese ones. If the rims are $220, that price for the complete set is insane. And they're heavy to boot, 1769g.
    I just purchased two rims from bike impowerment.
    They weigh 400 and 410 with an erd of 594.5mm.

  47. #347
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    I'm keen on these options, although must admit that a) I don't have the balls to take these to an lbs to have built up, and b) i've not ever tried to build a wheel before; meaning that I'll probably consider one of the pre-built wheel options along with some adapters from the UK site linked previously.

    As such, my question is: is anyone going down the same path? Who wants to bite the bullet first?

  48. #348
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    Just take them to your LBS and tell them they're X brand and you just pulled the stickers off. They look nearly EXACTLY like Roval rims, just tell them you debadged them

  49. #349
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    As soon as my rims arrive I'll lace them up. I'm just waiting on them to arrive so I can order spokes and knock it out, no hesitation.

  50. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet View Post
    The only people who will be buying the Enve type stuff are the same people who buy and try to justify $400.00 Assos shorts.
    Uh oh, I hope it doesn't work the other way around as I have 3 pairs of Assos shorts . Then again, probably has to do with living in Europe where the prices are a bit different, I could probably buy 3 or 4 Assos shorts for the price of 1 Enve rim.

    I've been considering the carbon road rims for quite a while now but haven't gone for them yet, waiting for the experience with these carbon AM rims which hopefully come next week.

  51. #351
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    I did a quick set-up just to try them tubless (AM model). Put one row of cheap electrical tape, no sealant, the beads ramped up very well with a 2bliss tire (fasttrack control, 605g). I try maxxis beaver (non tubless and very loose) with no success. It will need real thick tape (i see gorilla) and a lot of soap to pop-up this tire!

    The interior hole is too small for the stem, I will make it bigger with abrasif tool (not drill) and seal the fibers with epoxy system.

    I will test the rim to compare radial stiffness. I'm going to put a weight radially and measure the deformation of the rim itself, not a complete wheel. I have few rim to test (roval, chinese AM, oem specialized 450sl and maybe I can have some stan's). It will not be a super scientific test but it will talk a bit I hope...
    mat g

  52. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by gossejp View Post
    Listened to some of it and there was nothing really that interesting. Considering the entire podcast is THREE HOURS long I'll never hear the whole thing. What I did hear was just some guys gossiping and talking a lot of crap. They didn't really go into much detail about what is actually different about the two products. They just said they are cheap, use cheap carbon (if there is a such thing) and compared them to buying a fake Rolex. Well there are fake Rolex that are every bit as good at keeping time as a real Rolex and look the bill to boot. Somehow they also imply that rims being made to order is also a bad thing.

    Listening to Envy talk about the benefits of buying their product is IMO akin to asking BMW why you shouldn't buy a MB. Of course they are only going to push their own product, they have a vested interest in pushing their own product. The fact that competition could be had for 1/6th of the price means that they absolutely HAVE to convince people that there is a substantial difference in quality and service.

  53. #353
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    My new rims (AM) will be delivered tomorrow! Im really curious about the tubeless capability.
    I've got a roll of Gorilla tape standing by, and hope I will get a reassuring *pop* at around 20-25psi inflation... but maybe stan's has spoiled me

  54. #354
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    A few words in favor of ENVE.
    If an ENVE rim breaks, you have someone to sue, which is not the case with the Chinese rim. At best they'll give you your money back. The ENVE is expensive and as proven as it gets for this new type of rim. It also has a deeper profile, which should make it stiffer.
    No one knows yet if those benefits are worth 1300usd a set.
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  55. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    They just said they are cheap, use cheap carbon (if there is a such thing) and compared them to buying a fake Rolex...
    I'm agree with the fact that cheaper carbon and multiple smaller pieces can be used under the cosmetic layer and the impact resistance will be weeker on some spot.
    mat g

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    Quote Originally Posted by mat g View Post
    I'm agree with the fact that cheaper carbon and multiple smaller pieces can be used under the cosmetic layer and the impact resistance will be weeker on some spot.
    I assumed that the wheels would be made from carbon that doesn't include the use of old scrap pieces..

  57. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehschkott View Post
    As soon as my rims arrive I'll lace them up. I'm just waiting on them to arrive so I can order spokes and knock it out, no hesitation.
    Where do you order spokes from? I'm looking at the CX-Ray spokes. Do you use Spoke Prep or or Linseed Oil? I've only used Spoke Prep but read that Linseed oil works about the same (don't have access to spoke prep anymore).

  58. #358
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    ENVE vs. chinese carbon rims...

    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    Listened to some of it and there was nothing really that interesting. Considering the entire podcast is THREE HOURS long I'll never hear the whole thing. What I did hear was just some guys gossiping and talking a lot of crap. They didn't really go into much detail about what is actually different about the two products. They just said they are cheap, use cheap carbon (if there is a such thing) and compared them to buying a fake Rolex. Well there are fake Rolex that are every bit as good at keeping time as a real Rolex and look the bill to boot. Somehow they also imply that rims being made to order is also a bad thing.

    Listening to Envy talk about the benefits of buying their product is IMO akin to asking BMW why you shouldn't buy a MB. Of course they are only going to push their own product, they have a vested interest in pushing their own product. The fact that competition could be had for 1/6th of the price means that they absolutely HAVE to convince people that there is a substantial difference in quality and service.
    I respectfully disagree with your above conclusion. I got drawn into the podcast and listened to Jason talk about their products for quite a while. They do specifically go into the difference in the products. It's not just a matter of the quality of carbon layup, which is a factor, but it is more importantly a matter of the workmanship when doing the wheels. Jason stated that the production of the wheel is more important than the material. He says ENVE could make a good wheel, even if they used the cheaper materials being used by the Chinese companies. The podcast is worth a listen if you are considering a safe, dependable set of wheels. Little things like quality control, and the fact that the ENVE spoke holes are molded into the rim, rather than drilled afterwards, show a level of concern and engineering that makes me much more confident to use the product. Aside from that, the rim designs are totally different in depth, and I'm pretty sure ENVE has a good reason for that. After sustaining a couple serious accidents already, I am not willing to literally risk my life with a rim that has not been thoroughly tested and engineered. I cannot afford to be the early adopter test case for this product for my XC riding.
    (FWIW -- based on my prior research, and after listening to the podcast, I have decided to order an ENVE wheelset for my Tallboy build within the next few weeks.)

    I have been following this thread for weeks, and have learned quite a bit and am excited by the prospects of this technology inevitably creeping downward to more affordable levels just like everyone else. I look forward to hearing real-world reports of these rims, but hope things proceed safely and without catastrophic failures.

    If you have the coin to pony up for ENVE wheels -- or at least want to listen to some very honest sounding information, give the podcast a listen Two Johns Podcast*|*
    (The wheel info with Jason Schiers starts around 19:12)

    YMMV

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    A fake Rolex may not be a REAL rolex, but it still might be a pretty good watch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigfootDenny View Post
    I respectfully disagree with your above conclusion. I got drawn into the podcast and listened to Jason talk about their products for quite a while. They do specifically go into the difference in the products. It's not just a matter of the quality of carbon layup, which is a factor, but it is more importantly a matter of the workmanship when doing the wheels. Jason stated that the production of the wheel is more important than the material. He says ENVE could make a good wheel, even if they used the cheaper materials being used by the Chinese companies. The podcast is worth a listen if you are considering a safe, dependable set of wheels. Little things like quality control, and the fact that the ENVE spoke holes are molded into the rim, rather than drilled afterwards, show a level of concern and engineering that makes me much more confident to use the product. Aside from that, the rim designs are totally different in depth, and I'm pretty sure ENVE has a good reason for that. After sustaining a couple serious accidents already, I am not willing to literally risk my life with a rim that has not been thoroughly tested and engineered. I cannot afford to be the early adopter test case for this product for my XC riding.
    (FWIW -- based on my prior research, and after listening to the podcast, I have decided to order an ENVE wheelset for my Tallboy build within the next few weeks.)

    I have been following this thread for weeks, and have learned quite a bit and am excited by the prospects of this technology inevitably creeping downward to more affordable levels just like everyone else. I look forward to hearing real-world reports of these rims, but hope things proceed safely and without catastrophic failures.

    If you have the coin to pony up for ENVE wheels -- or at least want to listen to some very honest sounding information, give the podcast a listen Two Johns Podcast*|*
    (The wheel info with Jason Schiers starts around 19:12)

    YMMV
    I think that may be true to some extent. But, ENVE probably pays there employees more to work( being in the U.S), pays for advertising, may have to pay more for the same materials(being in the U.S.), sponserships, and probably has a shop that costs more to operate(being in the U.S.). This all factors into the price and has nothing to do with the workmanship, or quality of the product. They will naturally say something to justify the cost of their product. Age old sales tactics.

  61. #361
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    these hubs must be just as good as Chris King for 1/6 the price, right?
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  62. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigfootDenny View Post
    I respectfully disagree with your above conclusion. I got drawn into the podcast and listened to Jason talk about their products for quite a while. They do specifically go into the difference in the products. It's not just a matter of the quality of carbon layup, which is a factor, but it is more importantly a matter of the workmanship when doing the wheels. Jason stated that the production of the wheel is more important than the material. He says ENVE could make a good wheel, even if they used the cheaper materials being used by the Chinese companies. The podcast is worth a listen if you are considering a safe, dependable set of wheels. Little things like quality control, and the fact that the ENVE spoke holes are molded into the rim, rather than drilled afterwards, show a level of concern and engineering that makes me much more confident to use the product. Aside from that, the rim designs are totally different in depth, and I'm pretty sure ENVE has a good reason for that. After sustaining a couple serious accidents already, I am not willing to literally risk my life with a rim that has not been thoroughly tested and engineered. I cannot afford to be the early adopter test case for this product for my XC riding.
    (FWIW -- based on my prior research, and after listening to the podcast, I have decided to order an ENVE wheelset for my Tallboy build within the next few weeks.)

    I have been following this thread for weeks, and have learned quite a bit and am excited by the prospects of this technology inevitably creeping downward to more affordable levels just like everyone else. I look forward to hearing real-world reports of these rims, but hope things proceed safely and without catastrophic failures.

    If you have the coin to pony up for ENVE wheels -- or at least want to listen to some very honest sounding information, give the podcast a listen Two Johns Podcast*|*
    (The wheel info with Jason Schiers starts around 19:12)

    YMMV

    You mean "thoroughly tested" like this?

    Cozy Beehive: Edge Composite 68 Carbon Wheel Failure

    Or how about this from the comments section.

    "I've had nothing but problems with my 45mm Edge carbon tubular wheels.Went down a 4% grade with them and the heat got to them. Edge admitted they had a bad "batch" and replaced mine under warranty. The next one also failed after 3 rides.Switching to Campy Boras ASAP"

    If I was going to throw some money at some carbon wheels I'd go Easton. They have ten times the carbon knowledge and experience of ENVE.
    Last edited by Rivet; 02-14-2012 at 11:58 PM.
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  63. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    these hubs must be just as good as Chris King for 1/6 the price, right?
    Nope, not as good as Chris King but they probably aren't bad.
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  64. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by red5jedi View Post
    Where do you order spokes from? I'm looking at the CX-Ray spokes. Do you use Spoke Prep or or Linseed Oil? I've only used Spoke Prep but read that Linseed oil works about the same (don't have access to spoke prep anymore).
    I like BikeHubStore.com. Cool guy and great service.
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  65. #365
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    I have little doubt Enve rims are better than these chinese rims, not drilling spoke holes is one of the things which just seems better to me. However, most carbon rims are made in china without pre-formed spoke holes, even for the other big brands.

    If I had the money laying around with no other purpose I'd consider Enve, but at that price point I can't justify them. Whether these AM rims will catastrophically fail or not, time will tell, judging from the reports I've read on the chinese frames and road wheels I'm not too worried. A few road clinchers delaminated on long downhills, that's all I could find. No sudden explosion of these parts.

    Considering my Tallboy is made in China I'm sure they are able to fabricate half decent carbon products..

  66. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    these hubs must be just as good as Chris King for 1/6 the price, right?
    Yup.

  67. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    these hubs must be just as good as Chris King for 1/6 the price, right?
    that's the stan's ztr hubs right there!

  68. #368
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    do you guys have any idea the markup enve has on their wheels?
    Last edited by bt; 02-15-2012 at 06:26 AM.

  69. #369
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    IT probably doesnt cost more than $100 to make a Enve rim in USA. Thats just a guess though.

    The truth is I have no clue what the process is. So I really couldnt tell you an educated guess. Maybe somebody else knows
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  70. #370
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    Which model of the Chosen is the Stan's equivalent?

    Quote Originally Posted by wedge View Post
    that's the stan's ztr hubs right there!
    I'm thinking of building a wheel set and looking for an inexpensive hub with decent POE and 10mm rear convertibility (or extra caps so I can have the center drilled) I really can't stomach paying $350 for a dt swiss 240s or I-9 or CK. I have used the hubs from bikebikehubstore.com and they are quite nice. But I was hoping for a bit more POE to go with my carbon rims.

  71. #371
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    Where is the best place to source the narrower 29er Chinese carbon rim?
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  72. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigfootDenny View Post
    If you have the coin to pony up for ENVE wheels -- or at least want to listen to some very honest sounding information, give the podcast a listen
    I listened to it for 45 minutes. That was enough. The problem is that everything they said about the Chinese rims were generalities. The Light-Bicycle rims here don't look like they have drilled spoke holes. You can't make a comparative argument using generalities. You got sold. Good for you.

    I had some Edge tubulars and ridden Envy clinchers, as well as Zipp, HED, Easton, Reynolds, Roval, Bontrager Aeolus (HED) and the RXXXL mountain wheels.

    Envy isn't the only company making "Quality" carbon wheels. I liked them all. Quality? Umm... I somehow ripped the carbon fairing on the Aeolus wheels. Ripped... Like paper...

    I guess my point is that after riding all of them, I don't see any significant difference between them and some were made in China. Plus many of them despite being carbon, aren't stiff at all. I liked a lot of the deep section carbon wheels because of how soft they rode and how fast they are.

    We need real proof, not viral marketing, that there is a REAL difference between them. It's really easy to just say, "ours are better."


    Quote Originally Posted by bt View Post
    do you guys have any idea the markup enve has on their wheels?
    Yes. It's right in line with the markup of really any other bike part. They don't have super large profit margins.

  73. #373
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    This thread is BS, just hearsay with no actual real ride reports and virtually no pictures of the wheels on a actual bike. If someone is actually using these wheels at a good level of riding then come out with a real review of them. Until then.....

  74. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinner View Post
    This thread is BS, just hearsay with no actual real ride reports and virtually no pictures of the wheels on a actual bike. If someone is actually using these wheels at a good level of riding then come out with a real review of them. Until then.....
    This

  75. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinner View Post
    This thread is BS, just hearsay with no actual real ride reports and virtually no pictures of the wheels on a actual bike. If someone is actually using these wheels at a good level of riding then come out with a real review of them. Until then.....
    I'm not sure how long they've been selling them. It appears that most of us who have purchased them are only just getting them (mine just arrived today), so no time for real ride rep ports, yet. That doesnt make the thread bs - maybe not very useful yet, but not bs. Ill post ride report in a month or so.
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  76. #376
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    Once the weather turns around I will put some miles on my set that are being built now. There are others currently riding their wheels if you look back in the threads.
    And I hope I speak for others here, if you don't have anything to add then move on, but don't post useless, negative, good for nothing post!
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  77. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinner View Post
    This thread is BS, just hearsay with no actual real ride reports and virtually no pictures of the wheels on a actual bike. If someone is actually using these wheels at a good level of riding then come out with a real review of them. Until then.....
    Our guy still hasn't broken his. Same rim as discussed here. No hearsay. I've been watching them. Read the whole thread guys. For the love of God...
    I am immune to your disdain.

  78. #378
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    Okay, so I received mine, and they weigh in at 406gr and 407gr, with matte UD carbon finish, and drilled for internal nipples. When you look inside the rim, you can clearly see 3K carbon, but that's no surprise to me.

    I bought some CN Spoke R9 alloy internal nipples, and measured the ERD (for internal nipples, you won't have a use for that particular number). Suddenly I realized I made a big mistake: The drilled holes in the tirebed is only 6,5mm in diameter, while my internal spoke tool is 7mm wide.Also, the internal spoke nipples protrude from this hole by a millimeter (might be a problem for tubeless mounting). So I would advise to stick with normal spoke nipples for this rim.

    Anyway, I'm going to order some spokes, and put my spoke tool on a lathe... might take a while before this is all done. I will place some photo's before then.

    Ps. These rims feel solid, like a block of wood.

  79. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by two-one View Post
    Okay, so I received mine, and they weigh in at 406gr and 407gr, with matte UD carbon finish, and drilled for internal nipples. When you look inside the rim, you can clearly see 3K carbon, but that's no surprise to me.

    I bought some CN Spoke R9 alloy internal nipples, and measured the ERD (for internal nipples, you won't have a use for that particular number). Suddenly I realized I made a big mistake: The drilled holes in the tirebed is only 6,5mm in diameter, while my internal spoke tool is 7mm wide.Also, the internal spoke nipples protrude from this hole by a millimeter (might be a problem for tubeless mounting). So I would advise to stick with normal spoke nipples for this rim.

    Anyway, I'm going to order some spokes, and put my spoke tool on a lathe... might take a while before this is all done. I will place some photo's before then.

    Ps. These rims feel solid, like a block of wood.
    I would love to see a picture of the UD in Matte finish could you post a picture?
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  80. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by indyfab25 View Post
    Our guy still hasn't broken his. Same rim as discussed here. No hearsay. I've been watching them. Read the whole thread guys. For the love of God...
    I have only 50 or so miles on mine but the felling of "oh sh!t these are carbon" is long gone. Can't get over how freaking good they feel.........

  81. #381
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    I'm glad to hear they feel good when freshly built. Let's all not forget that no one has ridden these long-term. Thanks to early adopters for going out on a limb.
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  82. #382
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    Just got home to look at mine...couple small disappointments. First is that there are some spots on one rim, looks like there was some dirt or something when they applied the matte finish, so little bumps. Second is really minor...was hoping mine would weigh as low as others were reporting in the 380-385 gram range, but no such luck. Mine came in at 410g and 415g. Not a big deal, seeing as claimed weight was 400 +/- 10g. But if they hold up, I won't be complaining about either, as the price was MUCH less than the competition.
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  83. #383
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by uphiller View Post
    I'm glad to hear they feel good when freshly built. Let's all not forget that no one has ridden these long-term. Thanks to early adopters for going out on a limb.
    Yep... what he said...

  84. #384
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    It is good to hear that there is a lot of positive feedback to these rims. Maybe I'll bite the bullet and throw down the cash for these.

    Until then...

    I will be poking in on this thread for more carbon wheel pRon!!!

  85. #385
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    bikeempowerment 22mm internal width. waiting for hubs and spokes. race season starts in two weeks so they will be ridin.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-uploadfromtaptalk1329374997296.jpg  

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  86. #386
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    bikeempowerment rims = light-bicycle Chinese rims

    Quote Originally Posted by DukeNeverwinter View Post
    bikeempowerment 22mm internal width. waiting for hubs and spokes. race season starts in two weeks so they will be ridin.
    Your rims are the same as the ones being discussed on this forum. i confirmed that with the bikeempowerment seller a few days ago ...

  87. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by DukeNeverwinter View Post
    bikeempowerment 22mm internal width. waiting for hubs and spokes. race season starts in two weeks so they will be ridin.
    Is there a way to take those ugly decals off? Any why a rider limit of 190?

  88. #388
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    Thinking about giving the narrow ones from Light-Bicycle a try and a set of the 60mm road ones a try for cyclocross.
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  89. #389
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    decals would come off easy. But, I will leave them on. Help promote his business at the races.

  90. #390
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    The value is very low with bike empowerment. Is it a US distributor? That would be the only reason I might consider buying from there. Fast shipping and good communication.(presumably)
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  91. #391
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    SHeepo5669, that's why I went with him. I met him at a Coffee shop in San Diego near my work. no waiting, cash. He has a good relationship with a couple of the more popular shops in San Diego.

  92. #392
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    Got my rims last night. Its really hard to get a good shot of the ud matte finish. First pic is with the flash off and second with it on.






    I'm pretty happy with the overall finish of the parts. One of the rims did have a few pieces of bladder left in the rim cavity. I got one out, the other is going to take some fishing. I had asked Nancy if the spoke holes are molded or post machined, and she responded that they are machined. However, it really looks like the nipple holes are molded, but the secondary nipple holes and valve stem holes are machined. This doesn't really concern me though. I did notice that the inner cavity surface layer is 3k plain weave, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the core plies are 3k.

    A few measurements:

    wieght - 400/405g
    ERD - 601-602mm
    BSD/ISO - 621mm
    internal width - 23.5mm
    lip height - 6mm
    middle depression depth - 8mm

    I'm lacing these up to a set of Circus Monkey HDW2 hubs with Sapim Laser spokes and alloy nipples. Calculated weight of 688g front / 810g rear. Hubs are probably more of a gamble than these rims
    Last edited by ktm520; 02-16-2012 at 10:36 AM.

  93. #393
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    just ordered up a few of these in 3k matte. looking forward to getting them! thanks for the information guys!
    Try to be good.

  94. #394
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    Yeah! My wheels are built! My builder said they were super easy to build and was so impressed he's going to buy a set for himself. I'll get some ride time on them next week. Can't wait!
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  95. #395
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    bquinn, good to hear. Trail work on saturday, but should get mine built this weekend. Unfortunately, it will probably be a week or two before I can test them.

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    Hopefully there will start to be some real-world test rides on these rims. What I'm looking for and I think a lot of others too is the answers to these questions:
    What is the weight built, with pictures?
    How do they work tubeless and with what tires?
    And the main one, are they stiffer than aluminum rims, how do they ride?
    Right now I could ask anymore from my wheels built with Crest rims, great weight, going tubeless is a breeze and they're pretty stiff. But if these carbon rims can do all that and be stiffer, then I'm all in.
    RIDE MF RIDE,
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  97. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotto View Post
    Hopefully there will start to be some real-world test rides on these rims. What I'm looking for and I think a lot of others too is the answers to these questions:
    What is the weight built, with pictures?
    How do they work tubeless and with what tires?
    And the main one, are they stiffer than aluminum rims, how do they ride?
    Right now I could ask anymore from my wheels built with Crest rims, great weight, going tubeless is a breeze and they're pretty stiff. But if these carbon rims can do all that and be stiffer, then I'm all in.
    Whoa Scotto...my questions EXACTLY.

    Someone please....anyone....

  98. #398
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    hmm, you are only like the 50th person to ask those questions . . .

  99. #399
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    Just mailed mine off today to get built.

    Before I shipped them,, I took them out and laid them on the kitchen table and they were FLAT! I could see a miniscule bit of light here and there but I couldn't even slide a piece of paper under them. Considering my expectations were low, I'm quite impressed with the quality of these things. Weight was less than 10 grams off per rim and they're 99.9% true right out of the box. I'm getting giddy with excitement=)

    I will most definitely post pics and weights when I get them back. Total weight should be right around 1400 grams with my spec'd build. Reliability is obviously a test of time but I'm beginning to believe they're going to impress.

  100. #400
    mnoutain bkie rdier
    Reputation: rydbyk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    hmm, you are only like the 50th person to ask those questions . . .
    oh...sincerest apologies!!

    i would hate to reiterate the i too would appreciate a relevant/unanswered series of questions to be answered...silly me..

    still with scotto on this one...especially how they might compare to the crest rims in flex (yes i understand that lacing plays a role) and how they seat with tubeless stan's setup?

    maybe i missed something...

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