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  1. #3301
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    I got my lb bike wheels a few days ago. They are thinner wheels 28 spoke front 32 rear novatec ds711 hubs. Total weight 1457. Dont have tires or a fork yet so cant really mount them up. But cosmetically they look amazing. Build quality looks great. am going to try and go tubeless using gorilla tape and maxxis ikons. Will post how it goes later
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-20130208_134348.jpg  

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  2. #3302
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    If you can't find that, I generally shoot for 20 on the Park guage on the "tight" side. I generally end up with the highest readings around 18-20 and the other side will generally end up around 10-16 depending on the offset, flange height , etc. The most likely problem with building too high tension is the flange breaking.
    If you are going to throw out Park tension gauge readings, please list the spoke gauge also. One is meaningless without the other.

    This has been beaten on many times. 110-120kgf seems to be the favorite for these rims.

  3. #3303
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    Good point. I generally use DT Revolutions and wasn't thinking.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  4. #3304
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    Uh... any bike shop willing to build with parts they didn't sell? I know my favorite LBS (Endless Cycles in Castro Valley, CA) is more than willing to build you some wheels.

    Quote Originally Posted by GlazedHam View Post
    Is anyone in the States building up custom wheels with the Chinese carbon rims? I don't want to deal with ordering, shipping and building them myself. Lazy, I know.

  5. #3305
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    Spicer cycles Spicer Cycles-Track frames-Track Forks-Fixed Gear-Bike Parts-Frames-Bicycles. Evansville, IN 47714 (812)473-4104
    He can order all the parts, build the wheels and ship them to you.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  6. #3306
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    How many clicks or ratcheting stops, sometimes called points-of-engagement, does the rear Novatec D711/D712 hubs hub have during one freewheel revolution?

    Thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by mackienz View Post
    I got my lb bike wheels a few days ago. They are thinner wheels 28 spoke front 32 rear novatec ds711 hubs. Total weight 1457. Dont have tires or a fork yet so cant really mount them up. But cosmetically they look amazing. Build quality looks great. am going to try and go tubeless using gorilla tape and maxxis ikons. Will post how it goes later

  7. #3307
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    I think he's looking for shops that have prebuilt wheels in stock. He doesn't seem to want to deal with having to acquire all the parts and get them built.

    "Uh... any bike shop willing to build with parts they didn't sell? I know my favorite LBS (Endless Cycles in Castro Valley, CA) is more than willing to build you some wheels. "
    "I wrote a hit play! What have you ever done?!"

    Have Ashtray, Will Travel....

  8. #3308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brisco Dog View Post
    ...I just ordered the rims myself and had them shipped to Chad at Red Barn Bicycles to be built up.
    <--- This. Painless. Nancy at LB was more than happy to drop ship mine to Chad. Chad is super easy to work with and his rates are very reasonable. I received my wheels from Chad a couple weeks back and they are sweet. For more info pics, weights, details are approx. 5 pages back in this thread. (Post #3180)

  9. #3309
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSH View Post
    <--- This. Painless. Nancy at LB was more than happy to drop ship mine to Chad. Chad is super easy to work with and his rates are very reasonable. I received my wheels from Chad a couple weeks back and they are sweet. For more info pics, weights, details are approx. 5 pages back in this thread. (Post #3180)


    Link here: (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

  10. #3310
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    So back on page 120 I asked about people running the NARROW rims TUBELESS.

    I have ABSOLUTELY no interest in the wider rims, or the "benefits" of the wider rims. I give absolutely ZERO ****s about the wider rims. So Please, spare the "lectures" on the nature of wider rims and tires and resistance. I am exceedingly well-versed in the nature of those topics.

    I am simply interested in whether or not anyone has anything notable to say about the reliability of the NARROW rims being run tubeless, preferably with Stan's tape or gorilla tape.

    THANKS
    Quote Originally Posted by sickspeed16
    Your not all mountain unless your runnin' crushed dew cans..
    '12 Scalpel 29er Carbon 1
    '13 SuperSix EVO Red Racing

  11. #3311
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby View Post
    How many clicks or ratcheting stops, sometimes called points-of-engagement, does the rear Novatec D711/D712 hubs hub have during one freewheel revolution?

    Thanks!


    24 according to this review.

    Ride It, Fix It: Novatec MTB Hubs Review

  12. #3312
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    Re: (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by rvmdmechanic View Post
    So back on page 120 I asked about people running the NARROW rims TUBELESS.
    I am simply interested in whether or not anyone has anything notable to say about the reliability of the NARROW rims being run tubeless, preferably with Stan's tape or gorilla tape.
    THANKS
    Because you ask so nicely, these were my xc 29 LB rims. Perhaps they have been changed in the meantime..
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-uploadfromtaptalk1360607833221.jpg  

    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-uploadfromtaptalk1360607816176.jpg  

    12 Anthem X29
    13 XTC 29

    07 Epic Marathon carbon
    04 Stumpjumper FSR Anniversary
    03 Stumpjumper FSR Pro
    00 Rockhopper Pro

  13. #3313
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    Just thought I would share my light bicycle wheel and Novatec hub issues for the next guy....
    I ordered the 29er wider 3K wheelset with the D711SB/D811SB hubs. If you want to convert the D711SB hubs for a 15mm RS maxle you need to remove the original axle (use the RS maxle instead) insert the Novatec crush sleeve between the bearings and add the correct Novatech 15mm end caps (correct may be tricky, I had to machine the ones I got).
    The guys at the local bike shop here all got matte finish rims this summer. Half of them delaminated. Warranty covered them all. Word is 3K is the best. Sorry for repeating info, but 133 pages is a lot to read.

  14. #3314
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    XC rim tubeless experience with panaracer cx tire

    I ordered a set of the XC or "narrow" 29er rims to use for this cross season. After easily being able to inflate and seal a tubeless setup with 1 layer of gorilla tape and a floor pump on my AM 29er rims I tried the same with the XC rims, very loose fit. I then tried two layers of GT, still very loose. Deciding I was beginning to add too much weight I went down to the lbs and bought the plastic bonty rim strips, they were a little snug width wise but I pressed them under the hook tightly with a tire lever. With a compressor I was then able to get them to seal and run tubeless at 30psi on a 700x32 non-ust cx tire. They ended up working fine but were much more of a pain than the AM rims. The XC set I ordered in August I would not consider Tubeless ready at all. The center channel is much deeper than the flatter, more even profile of the AM version. The Bonty strips helped fill that a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by rvmdmechanic View Post
    So back on page 120 I asked about people running the NARROW rims TUBELESS.

    I have ABSOLUTELY no interest in the wider rims, or the "benefits" of the wider rims. I give absolutely ZERO ****s about the wider rims. So Please, spare the "lectures" on the nature of wider rims and tires and resistance. I am exceedingly well-versed in the nature of those topics.

    I am simply interested in whether or not anyone has anything notable to say about the reliability of the NARROW rims being run tubeless, preferably with Stan's tape or gorilla tape.

    THANKS

  15. #3315
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    Forgive me if I've missed this but can someone explain the 'New Process' I keep seeing references too? What was changed, issues addressed, benefits?

    Thx

  16. #3316
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  17. #3317
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    Interesting, thanks for posting the link.

    Now if only they had done that high PSI testing prior to me blowing a rim apart, picking shrapnel from my leg, and cleaning stan's off of the ceiling.

    But in all seriousness, that looks like well executed, iterative engineering. Well done Light Bicycle!

  18. #3318
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by lobo7 View Post
    Forgive me if I've missed this but can someone explain the 'New Process' I keep seeing references too? What was changed, issues addressed, benefits?

    Thx
    It's, "the customer-as-Q/C model is telling us something is wrong, so let's tweak some stuff and see if everything works out fine." Meanwhile money keeps rolling in...
    The new batch of customers/Q/C should be an improvement over the last round. That's the definition of "iterative," isn't it? Testing, shmesting, if the guy with shrapnel in his leg from the first round is impressed, we're rockin'!
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  19. #3319
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    The guy with shrapnel in his leg blew up his rim by putting over 70 psi in the tire.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  20. #3320
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    The guy with shrapnel in his leg blew up his rim by putting over 70 psi in the tire.
    You have a point, sir. Well played.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  21. #3321
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    Well, here's yer problem....

    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    The guy with shrapnel in his leg blew up his rim by putting over 70 psi in the tire.

  22. #3322
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Corrosion data point:
    6 months
    DT Swiss nipples
    Stan's sealant
    Bontrager strips sealed in with latex (remnant pealing off the bead in the photo)
    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-imageuploadedbytapatalk1360640229.861752.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  23. #3323
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    Re: (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Corrosion data point:
    6 months
    DT Swiss nipples
    Stan's sealant
    Bontrager strips sealed in with latex (remnant pealing off the bead in the photo)
    Hard for me to tell from the photo alone - is the little bit of white early corrosion? The rest of the nipple and spoke look good. Are you posting/showing this as a warning that corrosion is starting or to show that it looks good?

    If you are indeed seeing early worrisome corrosion, is there anything that can be done at the early stage to stop progression or will you be replacing the nipples?

    Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk 2

  24. #3324
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by albertdc View Post
    Hard for me to tell from the photo alone - is the little bit of white early corrosion? The rest of the nipple and spoke look good. Are you posting/showing this as a warning that corrosion is starting or to show that it looks good?

    If you are indeed seeing early worrisome corrosion, is there anything that can be done at the early stage to stop progression or will you be replacing the nipples?

    Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk 2
    Zero corrosion. I won't be doing anything but continuing to ride.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  25. #3325
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    Re: (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Zero corrosion. I won't be doing anything but continuing to ride.
    Awesome! :thumbup:
    Can't wait for spring to put the skis away and bring out the RIP with the carbons.

    Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk 2

  26. #3326
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    Thanks AZ'
    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    24 according to this review.

    Ride It, Fix It: Novatec MTB Hubs Review

  27. #3327
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    Looking for some opinions on spokes/lacing for these rims. I was going to use butted spokes like Sapim Lasers or DT Revos but heard that those weren't recommended for disc wheels. Also thinking of going 2x - some of the other carbon rim manufacturers recommend 2x. Looks like most folks are going 3x with a variety of different spokes - butted, straight and bladed. Any thoughts?

  28. #3328
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    Quote Originally Posted by slsl123 View Post
    Looking for some opinions on spokes/lacing for these rims. I was going to use butted spokes like Sapim Lasers or DT Revos but heard that those weren't recommended for disc wheels.
    They are fine for disc wheels.
    Quote Originally Posted by slsl123 View Post
    Also thinking of going 2x - some of the other carbon rim manufacturers recommend 2x. Looks like most folks are going 3x with a variety of different spokes - butted, straight and bladed. Any thoughts?
    ENVE recommends 2x due to their nipple hole layup alignment. Not a consideration or issue with the Nancy rims. You can't go wrong with 3x and it provides a better tangential spoke angle for transmitting torque (braking & drive forces), but 2x works fine too.
    This is a case where the opinions FAR outweigh any actual benifits or detriments from choosing one spoke or cross pattern over another.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  29. #3329
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by rvmdmechanic View Post
    So back on page 120 I asked about people running the NARROW rims TUBELESS.

    I have ABSOLUTELY no interest in the wider rims, or the "benefits" of the wider rims. I give absolutely ZERO ****s about the wider rims. So Please, spare the "lectures" on the nature of wider rims and tires and resistance. I am exceedingly well-versed in the nature of those topics.

    I am simply interested in whether or not anyone has anything notable to say about the reliability of the NARROW rims being run tubeless, preferably with Stan's tape or gorilla tape.

    THANKS
    I've got the wider rims. They rock! You should get wider rims!!!


    Sorry couldn't help myself....
    --Reamer

  30. #3330
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by reamer41 View Post
    I've got the wider rims. They rock! You should get wider rims!!!


    Sorry couldn't help myself....
    lol... I think that's called preemptive butt hurt.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  31. #3331
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    Whatever wide lovers...theyre alive!! This is my narrow rimmed lb wheel. I used gorilla tape and at first I tried a maxxis ikon it didn't inflate. Luckily I can return it due to them sending me the Wrong model. I then got a specialized fast trak, which is tubeless ready, and it inflated easily.So it's all about which tire you use. I now regret I used gorilla tape as I think Stan's tape would work fine and it's light. Glad I didn't get the wide ones like aIl the other sheep, I Mean real Mountain bikers. these are so light and they re gonna fly.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-20130215_162646.jpg  


  32. #3332
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by mackienz View Post
    Glad I didn't get the wide ones like aIl the other sheep, I Mean real Mountain bikers. these are so light and they re gonna fly.
    Lol... your narrow rims with gorilla are heavier than wide ones with Stan's. I hope they don't slow you down too much.
    Let us know how that lateral flex the LB website talks about feels.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  33. #3333
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    Haha. Almost but not quite. Will let you know how the flex goes

  34. #3334
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    Anyone hear from LB after their New Year?

    Nancy seems MIA

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeZee View Post
    Anyone hear from LB after their New Year?

    Nancy seems MIA
    I got an email from her yesterday.

  36. #3336
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    China does have quite the problem with workers never coming back to the factories, so I hear.

  37. #3337
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    I hope this is okay. I have a set of the Bonty rim strips and valves that I was going to use but my builder taped them without asking me so I have no use for them anymore. Let me know if you are looking for a set of the Rhythm Pro 29er strips and we can try to work something out.

  38. #3338
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    simpy16; you might want to keep them a while and make sure the tires you are using don't burp with just the tape.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  39. #3339
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    does anyone know why carbon rim manufacturers don't use extremely impact resistant composites in the outer layer? For example Kevlar or spectra. They aren't much more expensive than most reg. Carbon fiber. I've used Kevlar in the carbon fiber frames I make for myself, and the only downside is that it fuzzes during sanding. It looks really cool and would almost eliminate all of the rim wall cracks
    my carbon footprint has cleats

  40. #3340
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    Maybe it is just not as marketable. If it is harder to use in production that wouldn't help either. Yeah, it is a bugger to cut, and some have told me more susceptible to breaking down in sunlight but that I don't know. Most people want stiff/light so there may be limits on how much stuff they can use in a rim.

  41. #3341
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    Quote Originally Posted by lobo7 View Post
    Forgive me if I've missed this but can someone explain the 'New Process' I keep seeing references too? What was changed, issues addressed, benefits?

    Thx
    I don't know if the "new process" rims will be an improvement over the "old process rims but if you have a preference you need to specify when you place your order according to Brian at LB. They are shipping out both new/old randomly right now. Mine just shipped yesterday and I will be receiving "old process" rims.

  42. #3342
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    Quote Originally Posted by xc biker View Post
    does anyone know why carbon rim manufacturers don't use extremely impact resistant composites in the outer layer? For example Kevlar or spectra. They aren't much more expensive than most reg. Carbon fiber. I've used Kevlar in the carbon fiber frames I make for myself, and the only downside is that it fuzzes during sanding. It looks really cool and would almost eliminate all of the rim wall cracks
    I'm not sure that an impact resistant layer would do any good for the kind of damage a carbon rim gets. The rim sees more crushing forces, like hitting a curb at speed, not damage like being hit by a flying rock. I can see that would be a good thing to add to the underside of a frame downtube or something, but I think it would just add weight to a rim.

    Then again, I'm no composites engineer.

  43. #3343
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    Quote Originally Posted by slsl123 View Post
    I don't know if the "new process" rims will be an improvement over the "old process rims but if you have a preference you need to specify when you place your order according to Brian at LB. They are shipping out both new/old randomly right now. Mine just shipped yesterday and I will be receiving "old process" rims.
    I emailed LB about this and they didn't really answer my question as to the difference between the two processes. Sounds like they are still waiting to see how the new process rims are received by customers and how they hold up. Anyone got the new process rims and have any thoughts?

    (answer from Nancy)

    "Yes, we sell both the process for 29er wide rims currently, and most part are still with the past process. Because the testing for new process haven't been finished, and we like to know how the customers ride on new process rims. Then make a decision when to change all molds for new process. And for customers' riding test, it will take around a few months.
    It is easy to see which rims are with new process, the serial number is "R02XXXXXXX". And for rims with the past process, it is with " R29C xxxxx"."

  44. #3344
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    Ordered road 38mm clinchers with DB hubs for my 29er. Seller said many used them in CX and no problems. Pic/review/weight will come soon
    Scott Scale 29er FHT, Scott Foil, Chinese 29er FHT

  45. #3345
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokisare View Post
    I emailed LB about this and they didn't really answer my question as to the difference between the two processes. Sounds like they are still waiting to see how the new process rims are received by customers and how they hold up. Anyone got the new process rims and have any thoughts?

    (answer from Nancy)

    "Yes, we sell both the process for 29er wide rims currently, and most part are still with the past process. Because the testing for new process haven't been finished, and we like to know how the customers ride on new process rims. Then make a decision when to change all molds for new process. And for customers' riding test, it will take around a few months.
    It is easy to see which rims are with new process, the serial number is "R02XXXXXXX". And for rims with the past process, it is with " R29C xxxxx"."
    I am going to take a wild gues and say the new process is the same new process described for the 650b rims. Follow this link ... the new process seems better ...
    Technology Improve Of Light-Bicycle Carbon MTB 650B Rims Light-Bicycle
    You cannot go against nature, because when you do, its part of nature too.

  46. #3346
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokisare View Post
    I emailed LB about this and they didn't really answer my question as to the difference between the two processes. Sounds like they are still waiting to see how the new process rims are received by customers and how they hold up. Anyone got the new process rims and have any thoughts?

    (answer from Nancy)

    "Yes, we sell both the process for 29er wide rims currently, and most part are still with the past process. Because the testing for new process haven't been finished, and we like to know how the customers ride on new process rims. Then make a decision when to change all molds for new process. And for customers' riding test, it will take around a few months.
    It is easy to see which rims are with new process, the serial number is "R02XXXXXXX". And for rims with the past process, it is with " R29C xxxxx"."
    So.... Customer beta testing. Greeeeaaat. I guess that's why the are cheap. I dunno, I would volunteer for that.

  47. #3347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ottoreni View Post
    I am going to take a wild gues and say the new process is the same new process described for the 650b rims. Follow this link ... the new process seems better ...
    Technology Improve Of Light-Bicycle Carbon MTB 650B Rims Light-Bicycle
    Thanks for that link, it makes the new process sound a lot better than the old process but I guess they haven't got it perfected yet... that's why they haven't switched over completely.

    I'd be tempted to ask for new process rims although I guess there's a risk without them being extensively tested yet.

  48. #3348
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    I received my new process rims a couple days ago. I have no other carbon rim to compare them to, but I can find no visual flaw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spsoon View Post
    I received my new process rims a couple days ago. I have no other carbon rim to compare them to, but I can find no visual flaw.
    have you weighed them? Interested to know if there's any weight difference.

  50. #3350
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    I'll weigh them this weekend

  51. #3351
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    So.... Customer beta testing. Greeeeaaat. I guess that's why the are cheap. I dunno, I would volunteer for that.
    Volunteer=pay $360 like everyone else
    Nobody's stopping you. Post up the test results.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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  52. #3352
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokisare View Post
    have you weighed them? Interested to know if there's any weight difference.
    They came in at 380 and 386g

  53. #3353
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    Quote Originally Posted by spsoon View Post
    They came in at 380 and 386g
    Sweet so at the lower end of the weight range, keep us posted on your build and how it goes!

  54. #3354
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViltusVilks View Post
    Ordered road 38mm clinchers with DB hubs for my 29er. Seller said many used them in CX and no problems. Pic/review/weight will come soon
    Waiting for!!

  55. #3355
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    It would be interesting to see how many people are running carbon rims with inner tubes.....personally I think by running them tubeless, it increases the safety factor because you will know very quickly when the rim is starting to fail. I saw someone post that they installed a tube after their carbon hoops failed and could not tell they were broken. Running tubes is dangerous because when it does fail, it will be catastrophic.

  56. #3356
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    Quote Originally Posted by YaMon View Post
    It would be interesting to see how many people are running carbon rims with inner tubes.....personally I think by running them tubeless, it increases the safety factor because you will know very quickly when the rim is starting to fail. I saw someone post that they installed a tube after their carbon hoops failed and could not tell they were broken. Running tubes is dangerous because when it does fail, it will be catastrophic.
    Realistically though, you're a hundred times more likely to crash from a front tire tubeless burp than from a shattered rim that somehow fails worse with a tubular setup. I can't even remember all of the burp induced crashes, ending in injury, that I've personally witnessed. One guy even went off the side of a 30 foot cliff. Despite running tubeless on these rims myself, I consider it to be more dangerous, not safer.

  57. #3357
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    Just trying to alleviate the "fear" people are posting about carbon rims. You don't hear about burp related crashes......

  58. #3358
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    I have heard many accounts of burp crashes, but almost never heard of a "crash" related to a catastrophic carbon rim failure.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  59. #3359
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    For the sake of levity, I've never burped a Tubeless Ready tire while using a Bontrager rim strip.

  60. #3360
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    Just responding to what I believe is the "fear" about going with these light-bicycle rims.... That would certainly solve it, but open up another can of worms......

  61. #3361
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    Quote Originally Posted by YaMon View Post
    It would be interesting to see how many people are running carbon rims with inner tubes.....personally I think by running them tubeless, it increases the safety factor because you will know very quickly when the rim is starting to fail. I saw someone post that they installed a tube after their carbon hoops failed and could not tell they were broken. Running tubes is dangerous because when it does fail, it will be catastrophic.
    I am. I ran mine with Lunar Lite tubes for a while. I was having issues with getting my tubeless to seal up, and I wanted to ride. Meh... tubeless doesn't save any weight over a Lunar Lite anyway. I guess is saves a tiny amount of drag. I don't really get flats very often, so PITA factor is much bigger than the benefit for me.

    I can't imagine at the pressures mountain bikes run that safety is much of an issue, or that it even makes a difference. Pressure is pressure, no mater if it is contained in a balloon or gooey sealant by the edges. It's not as if the tube is adding any actual structure.

    BTW, I run 25-27 psi with tubes.

    As far as safety goes, I've had my front tire suddenly burp out most of it's air right when I need it to stick the most, nearly sending me OTB on several different occasions. IMO, tubes are way safer. Whenever I ride my bike with the tubeless setup, I constantly have in the back of my mind the idea that it's gonna burp on me in the middle of a techy rocky section and dump me on my ass. I trust my carbon rims of mysterious construction and quality control way more than I trust tubeless.

    Tubes just work. Hard to argue with that.

    Oh, but one rub: Performance Bike discontinued Lunar Lite tubes for mountain bikes. Currently, their lightest is the .65mm thick 'Ultralite' one, not the 0.45mm LunarLite.
    Last edited by pimpbot; 03-04-2013 at 05:40 PM.

  62. #3362
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    The only time I ever burped a tire was tubeless 1.0 with Mavic 717/Stan's/Pythons.

    I have run Bontrager's system ever since starting with Race Modified's, then RXLs and finally the Light Bicycle with the Rhythm strip.

    I haven't worried about burping a tire in over eight years.

    I run 20psi front and 22psi rear with maxxis ikon, 165lbs.

  63. #3363
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    Well I cannot imagine that the burping is occurring as often as same people may be indicating. I am assuming they are running way too low pressures. If the burping was such a major problem, they would not be selling as many and it would not be so popular. I run my rims tubed with 30 pounds, I feel very safe running tubeless at 25-30 pounds.

    Back to the carbon rims, if you run them as a tubeless setup you should get advanced warning that the rim is damaged. It is unusual for carbon fiber to literally separate in two pieces. It usually starts with a crack .......

  64. #3364
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    I have raced on mine at 19-20 psi (190lbs) in the snow and had no burping issues.

  65. #3365
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    Quote Originally Posted by YaMon View Post
    If the burping was such a major problem, they would not be selling as many and it would not be so popular.
    bulletproof logic
    what level of popularity would allow for "major problem" burping and what level of popularity are they at now?
    Quote Originally Posted by YaMon View Post
    Back to the carbon rims, if you run them as a tubeless setup you should get advanced warning that the rim is damaged. It is unusual for carbon fiber to literally separate in two pieces. It usually starts with a crack .......
    What if the rim cracks underneath a layer of tape? or under a rim strip? or underneath tape and a rim strip? or around a spoke hole?
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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  66. #3366
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    Quote Originally Posted by broadwayline View Post
    I have raced on mine at 19-20 psi (190lbs) in the snow and had no burping issues.
    Same results here........I have been running tubeless for years and it realy comes down to the tires. I run Special Ed 2Bliss on these rims and Stan's rims....work great!

  67. #3367
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    Well, I discovered something rather unfortunate this morning, a crack in my rear rim. I was actually about to come on here and give an update saying everything thus far has been great about the wheels, no problems whatsoever. I guess I can't say that anymore... I was just checking over my bike in my bike stand this morning when I discovered it. Who knows when it happened, could have been last ride could have been weeks ago. I have no clue. As far as I can recall I never bottomed out the rim but in their defense I do ride very aggressively, more so than my bike is really designed for. I've only had the wheels about two months but I can't imagine they would warranty this, it's pretty clearly done by myself. Now I just need to decide if I want to replace the rim with another carbon one or if I should just go back to aluminum...
    Pictures:





    Will do a closer inspection of the rest of the rim and the front rim when I get off of work. In fact I need to leave for work... 2 minutes ago.

  68. #3368
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    They work with I9's...why dont you think they will work with yours?
    .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boudre0aux View Post
    I wish they would work with my I9 hubs.

  69. #3369
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    Make sure u don't bottom out! I mean if i read things about carbon frames cracking when they knock against rocks etc...

  70. #3370
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikrc10 View Post
    Well, I discovered something rather unfortunate this morning, a crack in my rear rim. I was actually about to come on here and give an update saying everything thus far has been great about the wheels, no problems whatsoever. I guess I can't say that anymore... I was just checking over my bike in my bike stand this morning when I discovered it. Who knows when it happened, could have been last ride could have been weeks ago. I have no clue. As far as I can recall I never bottomed out the rim but in their defense I do ride very aggressively, more so than my bike is really designed for. I've only had the wheels about two months but I can't imagine they would warranty this, it's pretty clearly done by myself. Now I just need to decide if I want to replace the rim with another carbon one or if I should just go back to aluminum...
    Pictures:





    Will do a closer inspection of the rest of the rim and the front rim when I get off of work. In fact I need to leave for work... 2 minutes ago.
    What have you got to lose??????call them.

  71. #3371
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    bulletproof logic
    what level of popularity would allow for "major problem" burping and what level of popularity are they at now?

    Well judging by how many brands of rims tape and valves and liquid out there, not to mention the investment of tires, it would seem to me that there is more than a significant amount being sold. Tire companies would not invest in special molds unless they can recoup the cost. Your guess as to the total sales is as good as mine. But common sense tells you it is very significant.

    What if the rim cracks underneath a layer of tape? or under a rim strip? or underneath tape and a rim strip? or around a spoke hole?
    You will never be able to satisfy every situation. So you look at the percentages. Even if it cracks at the spoke hole or valve, if it migrates, it will still give you more of an advance warning then if you do not have it. .....those road aero rims would give you more than ample warning. Take a look at the post below with the cracked rim, I think that would be a normal break.......

  72. #3372
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikrc10 View Post
    Well, I discovered something rather unfortunate this morning, a crack in my rear rim. I was actually about to come on here and give an update saying everything thus far has been great about the wheels, no problems whatsoever. I guess I can't say that anymore... I was just checking over my bike in my bike stand this morning when I discovered it. Who knows when it happened, could have been last ride could have been weeks ago. I have no clue. As far as I can recall I never bottomed out the rim but in their defense I do ride very aggressively, more so than my bike is really designed for. I've only had the wheels about two months but I can't imagine they would warranty this, it's pretty clearly done by myself. Now I just need to decide if I want to replace the rim with another carbon one or if I should just go back to aluminum...
    Pictures:





    Will do a closer inspection of the rest of the rim and the front rim when I get off of work. In fact I need to leave for work... 2 minutes ago.

    We're you running tubes? Or Kidd you setup tubeless?.

  73. #3373
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    If you remove the img tags those photos will not appear in every freakin post.

  74. #3374
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by YaMon View Post
    We're you running tubes? Or Kidd you setup tubeless?.
    Tubeless (see his post in this thread about Bonty rim strips & Nevegals).
    Sometimes theories don't play out.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  75. #3375
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by YaMon View Post
    You will never be able to satisfy every situation. So you look at the percentages. Even if it cracks at the spoke hole or valve, if it migrates, it will still give you more of an advance warning then if you do not have it. .....those road aero rims would give you more than ample warning. Take a look at the post below with the cracked rim, I think that would be a normal break.......
    What percentages? From here it looks like more often than not tubeless does not give any indication of a cracked rim.
    Why wouldn't the sealant seal a crack?
    Not a bad thought, even if presented as fact/reality, it just doesn't play out based on the available evidence.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  76. #3376
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    sorry about your rim. I don't know if this is applicable for a big crack like that, but you can try to use the rim repair method that was mentioned before:
    quote: "bandaid" method for rim repair.
    1. Remove the tire and rim strip/rim tape. Clean off any residual sealant with soapy water.
    2. Sand down the impacted area with a ~300 grit sandpaper. Get rid of some of the loose splinters of carbon and get a good look at what you are dealing with. Don't over sand things
    3. Clean the sanded areas well, blow out all sanding debris with clean, dry compressed air, and then hose it down with isopropyl alcohol (IPA). Let the IPA flash off.
    4. Look for delaminations, if you can push on the impact site and see layers moving around, that is a delamination. I used a thin pointy scribe to open up the delam's and squirt in a good low viscosity super glue, avoid the thick stuff, you want this to run and flow into the delaminations. I pressed things together after this with my fingers and the scribe (with nitrile gloves on) while the superglue was still wet to work the glue into the damaged area I then let this dry for about 10 minutes.
    5. Resand the impacted area you just super glued again with a ~300 grit sandpaper. You need to abraid the surface so the next layer of adhesive has something to hold onto.
    6. Blow out the sanding debris with clean, dry air, hose it down with IPA and let if flash off.
    7. Mix up a small amount of epoxy/adhesive, I prefer something that has a 60-90 minute working time so I can do steps 8-10 a couple times with the same batch of mixed adhesive, but can have the cure accelerated with a little heat if desired as well.
    8. I used teflon tape and teflon release film to make a little flap I could cover the entire impact area with, then applied the adhesive, put the flap over the area and tried to make it smooth and wrinkle free
    9. I then clamped a flexibly sheet of silicon rubber over the impact area, set it in front of a hot halogen lamp for 30 minutes to mostly cure the adhesive.
    10. Remove clamp, remove the silicon rubber, peel open teflon flap, look to see if the adhesive flowed into the impact and needs a little more applied. If no more is needed, move on, if more is needed, repeat steps 5-9 with another thin coat.
    11. Let adhesive cure at least overnight, or under the heat lamp for another hour or so. Be careful not to use too hot of a lamp, most epoxy resins have a glass transition temperature (Tg) in the 250-300F range, and you could damage the rim if you get hotter than this for prolonged periods of time. Keep it in the 125-150F range ideally. You should be able to hold a finger on the rim under the heat lamp for 3-5 seconds without burning yourself, or use a digital meat thermometer, etc... to see where you are at.
    12. Sand as much excess adhesive away, Start with 300-grit and work your way down to 600 or 1000 grit to make it pretty, but use caution not to sand into the carbon surrounding the impact area. Too thick of a patch is more likely to crack and fail than a nice thin layer.
    13. Ride and report back. Get enough people trying these bandaids and we can refine things.
    And keep in mind, these are bandaid solutions. They require you to keep an eye on them, and may need to be redone if the bond is too thick and cracks. And sometimes bandaids can't fix things "good enough".
    -like I said, I don't know if this will work for a crack that big, but its worth a try
    my carbon footprint has cleats

  77. #3377
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    Yeah, I forgot to mention that, I was running tubeless. I usually tried to keep the rear at 24 psi. Weighing less than 145 lbs geared up I figured that would be plenty. Like I said though I do ride aggressively, I tend to seek out the toughest and most technical route down the mtn.
    I gave the rest of the rim, and the front rim, a relatively thorough inspection and I saw no other signs of cracking.
    I'll send Nancy (or should I send Brian?) an email when I get chance seeing if there is anything they can do. If not I will certainly give the bandaid method try. Thanks btw, xc biker, I very much appreciate it. Part of me wants to just say screw it and ride it like it is until it fails... That's undoubtedly a recipe for disaster, but I don't think it happened on my last ride which has quite a few large drops and rocky sections. So who knows how long it will last. Even with the crack the rim is just as true as the day I got it.
    I will make sure to keep you guys updated on what I decide to do.

  78. #3378
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeZee View Post
    Xiamen BECS Carbon Fiber Parts Industry Co., Ltd

    Same company

    They refuned my $$ minus shipping.
    BECS Xiamen and light-bicycle are two completely different companies. You need to check on this before reporting bad information. However, Nancy that works at light-bicycle now did work for BECS last year before moving to light- bicycle.

    Those of you that have dealt with Chinese companies in the past, know that similar industries are often located in the same area. It is not unusuall to find an entire town devoted to manufacturing doors........several different companies, sometimes in the same building.
    Last edited by Atomik Carbon; 03-07-2013 at 06:19 AM. Reason: add info

  79. #3379
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    Quote Originally Posted by YaMon View Post
    BECS Xiamen and light-bicycle are two completely different companies. You need to check on this before reporting bad information. However, Nancy that works at light-bicycle now did work for BECS last year before moving to light- bicycle.

    Those of you that have dealt with Chinese companies in the past, know that similar industries are often located in the same area. It is not unusuall to find an entire town devoted to manufacturing doors........several different companies, sometimes in the same building.
    +1 this is truth.

  80. #3380
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    Quote Originally Posted by YaMon View Post
    It is not unusuall to find an entire town devoted to manufacturing doors........several different companies, sometimes in the same building.
    Not too mention several wholesale/trading companies located in the same office building/office park.

  81. #3381
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    Quote Originally Posted by ms6073 View Post
    Not too mention several wholesale/trading companies located in the same office building/office park.
    Yes, it is important to actually visit the factory if you are going to place a big order. Sometimes they show a big factory on the brochure and when you go to check them out you find they are middlemen with a warehouse.....


    I actually have a friend that lives in Shanghai and have asked them to check to see if light- bicycle is an actual manufacturer. I will post my finding when they check.......
    Last edited by Atomik Carbon; 03-08-2013 at 08:13 AM. Reason: Add info

  82. #3382
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    Quote Originally Posted by YaMon View Post
    What have you got to lose??????call them.
    ... and failing that, repair them. Do a search on how to repair carbon fiber parts. There was somebody here who fixed their rims. IIRC, it was pretty easy. That's one of the nice things about carbon stuff. Not sure I would try it with bars or a road bike fork, but I would do a rim.

  83. #3383
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    Does anybody in the states have ONE new wide rim they'd like to sell ? PM me if you do. thanks !

    32 HOLE BTW !
    Last edited by 92gli; 03-08-2013 at 01:05 PM.

  84. #3384
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    Does anybody in the states have ONE new wide rim they'd like to sell ? PM me if you do. thanks !


    How many spoke holes?

  85. #3385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty $anchez View Post
    For the sake of levity, I've never burped a Tubeless Ready tire while using a Bontrager rim strip.
    Ditto...

  86. #3386
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    Looks like it's a no go on the warranty, just as expected, they offered a replacement rim at full price... I'll try the "bandaid" method here in a few days when I get a chance. I'm hoping that works. I just a killer offer on a Norco Range Killer B so I'm trying to get this bike up for sale as soon as possible but I don't want to do so with miss matching wheels. Last time I was about to sell this bike I tacoed the front wheel, I'm not liking this trend.

  87. #3387
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikrc10 View Post
    Looks like it's a no go on the warranty, just as expected, they offered a replacement rim at full price... I'll try the "bandaid" method here in a few days when I get a chance. I'm hoping that works. I just a killer offer on a Norco Range Killer B so I'm trying to get this bike up for sale as soon as possible but I don't want to do so with miss matching wheels. Last time I was about to sell this bike I tacoed the front wheel, I'm not liking this trend.
    I'm sure you'll mention the band aid when you sell.
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  88. #3388
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    I'm sure you'll mention the band aid when you sell.
    Yes, I most certainly will. I also plan to include the original rear that came with the bike. I'll make sure to get a few rides on it first to see how it holds up before I put it up for sale. But I will clearly state the crack in the rim.

  89. #3389
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    Ton's of products are made in China, it just sucks when they don't live up to expectations and qc standards. Erickrc10, thanks for giving us a head up!

  90. #3390
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    Quote Originally Posted by devintl View Post
    Ton's of products are made in China, it just sucks when they don't live up to expectations and qc standards. Erickrc10, thanks for giving us a head up!
    If you want replacement with no questions asked, then buy Enve at $900 each. I don't know the op and he did to indicate what pressure he was running, but if you take a close look at the damage it was caused by an impact. The sidewall is pushed in.....it absolutely blows my mind when some of the guys on this forum are running less than 25 pounds of pressure. What do you expect ? I run mine 25-30 and have not had anyproblems. I also weight 160 pounds. It would be interesting to know what the op runs....

    Also, try getting raceface and crook brothers to warranty anything......

  91. #3391
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    My first post. I've been lurking for a while and was interested in these rims from LB. I actually read every post before deciding to give these a try. I just received my AM 29 rims in the 3K finish. Rims only, and not the wide version. They arrived the other day and they were visually perfect. weights were 368 and 370. I was very happy with that. I gave them to my wheel builder. These are the first LB carbon wheels he has built. He said these were very true and spoke tension was perfectly even all the way around.

    I know nothing about building wheels, but he was very impressed. The build was with DT Swiss 240s hubs, DT Swiss Competition spokes, and DT Swiss brass nipples. (To avoid the potential for corrosion I read about). The total weight for the rear wheel was 854g. I could have used lighter spokes and nipples, but my builder recommended these and said the rims would be able to handle just about anything. He still has the front wheel. I'll post the weight when I get it back. My guess is it will be 750g because the only difference is the hub. The front is about 100g lighter. So the entire wheelset will be about 1600g. Could be lighter, but I weigh 200 lbs and didn't want to push it. This will save me about 526g off my factory set on my 2012 Scott Scale Expert (Hardtail).

    My experience with LB was exceptional during every step. I always chose to communicate via the live chat option on the website during their working hours. It was very easy.

    I can't wait to ride on them. I was able to set them up tubeless using the Bontrager rim strip and Racing Ralphs with Stans liquid. They sealed up with my floor pump, which I have never been able to do with my old rims. I heard the satisfying pops when I was inflating to know the beads had locked into place.

    If my experience and product is normal, I can say don't hesitate. These things are awesome. I'll post again after I get a few miles on them.

    Jason
    Last edited by jbone619; 03-09-2013 at 08:47 PM.

  92. #3392
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    I've been on my set (Hyperlefty, Powertap, Cx-rays and american classic alu nipples) since early 2012 and thru have been perfect.

    Did a full check this winter and all was as it was when I built them, no nipple corrosion and all spokes up to tension. Few minor scratches from rock or other things hitting them. I've been so impressed I've ordered a second pair for my enduro bike, this time the reinforced model.

    Any rim can be damaged easily, just ride it against a sharp object at speed with low tire pressure, so that kind of damage has never been a measure of quality for me. Some issues around spoke holes as mentioned earlier in the thread was a worry for me, unfounded in my case.

  93. #3393
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    Quote Originally Posted by devintl View Post
    Ton's of products are made in China, it just sucks when they don't live up to expectations and qc standards. Erickrc10, thanks for giving us a head up!
    Like YaMon said, this is not really a quality control issue. The crack was pretty clearly caused by me which is why I am not upset by them not warrantying the rim. If the crack occurred along the seem then it might be a different story but you can clearly see where the seem is and that's not it. I'm not really sure what I expected though, I've dented most rear wheels I've owned. Next time I buy new wheels in gonna pony up for a set of i9s (not that they won't dent, I'm just thinking out loud).
    I would still whole heartedly recommend LB rims, just not if you are an aggressive rider that encounters a lot of rocks.

  94. #3394
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikrc10 View Post
    Like YaMon said, this is not really a quality control issue. The crack was pretty clearly caused by me which is why I am not upset by them not warrantying the rim. If the crack occurred along the seem then it might be a different story but you can clearly see where the seem is and that's not it. I'm not really sure what I expected though, I've dented most rear wheels I've owned. Next time I buy new wheels in gonna pony up for a set of i9s (not that they won't dent, I'm just thinking out loud).
    I would still whole heartedly recommend LB rims, just not if you are an aggressive rider that encounters a lot of rocks.
    Thanks Erikrc10 for clearing that up. I have a set that is at 30 pounds right now. I am 160 pounds in weight. Knowing what happens to carbon when it hits a sharp/solid ibject, I don't think I will be running pressures below 25. I also ride mostly in Florida, it would be a different situation if I rode where there were lots of rocks. One place here I have to be very careful of is the G-Outs we have on many of our trails due to it's mining history. Very steep 20-30 foot drops with a similarly steep incline after bottoming out. Puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the wheels, but FUN!!!
    Last edited by Atomik Carbon; 03-10-2013 at 08:30 PM.

  95. #3395
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    I had a bad experience with LB for wheels and a 29er frame, and would like to avoid them. Anyone with good experience with another similar manufacturer/seller of cheap carbon 29er wheels?
    Thanks
    Giant Team Bike & Bean-Marin Co., CA

    https://www.facebook.com/GiantBikeandBean

  96. #3396
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    Quote Originally Posted by YaMon View Post
    Thanks Erikrc10 for clearing that up. I have a set that is at 30 pounds right now. I am 160 pounds in weight. Knowing what happens to carbon when it hits a sharp/solid ibject, I don't think I will be running pressures below 25. I also ride mostly in Florida, it would be a different situation if I rode where there were lots of rocks. One place here I have to be very careful of is the G-Outs we have on many of our trails due to it's mining history. Very steep 20-30 foot drops with a similarly steep incline after bottoming out. Puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the wheels, but FUN!!!
    just FYI, Im 165lbs and live in Austin. Our trails have a lot of limestone rocks with trail names like "cheesegrater". I run my LB rims at 20 psi and havent had any problems (yet). My cranks are beat to hell, bash ring is gouged, bottom bracket took some nasty hits until I put a protector on it, the wheels are definitely heavily scratched but no cracks in 7 months of riding about 30 miles/week.

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    I just ordered a pair of wheels for LB today. Wide 29", 3k gloss, 32 spoke D881/D882 with 15mm front / 10mm rear thru axles. Black hubs, spokes and nipples.

    15 day lead time. I'll post up some weights and pictures when they arrive.

  98. #3398
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    I am running them on my 29er race bike with 0 issues at 190lbs and hard aggressive riding / jumps / rocks over 1500km including riding a blue DH trail and riding with a bunch of spokes hand tight at one point.

    Their 88mms on my track/street bike all winter with no issues for 950km of city riding / curb drops / pothole smashes.

    Just received 38mm road wheels for my CX bike.

    Am discussing extra strong 26" DH wheels with Brian right now to run on my Kona Operator DH which I ride on lift access DH trails

    No issues yet, I have had some rim smashes on them that would of destroyed my old Stans Crest wheels without a doubt.

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    Anyone have difficulty with the Bontrager valve in these rims? I've been on another set of this combo (LB rim/Bontrager strip/valve) for months and they have been flawless, including the tubeless set-up. Doing some new ones, and they are leaky at the valve-hole like crazy. Not sure what's going on. Tried a layer of gorilla tape just over the valve hole and couple inches either way from it, then the strip back over it. Didn't seem to help. Anyone else have similar issues and come upon a solution. Thinking about trying a Stans valve as the next step.

  100. #3400
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwitte View Post
    Anyone have difficulty with the Bontrager valve in these rims? I've been on another set of this combo (LB rim/Bontrager strip/valve) for months and they have been flawless, including the tubeless set-up. Doing some new ones, and they are leaky at the valve-hole like crazy. Not sure what's going on. Tried a layer of gorilla tape just over the valve hole and couple inches either way from it, then the strip back over it. Didn't seem to help. Anyone else have similar issues and come upon a solution. Thinking about trying a Stans valve as the next step.
    Yeah I had problems with the Bontrager valves sealing. Nothing I did seemed to get them to stop leaking. Switched to Stans valves and everything sealed right up.

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