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  1. #3201
    trail shredder
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    I'll probably get neg. Rep for asking this, but can people please stop arguing on this forum?!
    if you want to argue with each other than just pm each other. All these arguments take up so much needless space on this forum (which is long enough already). Nobody wants to hear you bickering amongst yourselves.
    I'm not taking sides on whether he should have asked or not but please stop wasting space on this forum. If you are getting upset at the guy for asking a question and wasting space, then stop arguing and wasting space.
    my carbon footprint has cleats

  2. #3202
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    *sigh*

    Quote Originally Posted by five5 View Post
    Like I said, there is not a problem with telling someone to do a search, the response was "it's been discussed".

    Keep talking down to people. It fits you well.

    Again, you've proved how much smarter than me, hope putting me down makes you feel better. I'm simply trying to help the person.

    Again, sorry to interrupt all of you vast knowledge.


    Reeely?

  3. #3203
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    Quote Originally Posted by five5 View Post
    Like I said, there is not a problem with telling someone to do a search, the response was "it's been discussed".
    Actually, he said "Read back a few pages. It's been discussed. "


    Quote Originally Posted by five5 View Post
    Keep talking down to people. It fits you well.

    Again, you've proved how much smarter than me, hope putting me down makes you feel better. I'm simply trying to help the person.

    Again, sorry to interrupt all of you vast knowledge.
    That's an awful lot of butt hurt for someone who injected himself into the discussion by criticizing someone. Nobody killed your kitten. It's going to be okay.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  4. #3204
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    I am now a victim of the dreaded galvanic corrosion on my LB rims. (Sorry, i don't mean to start anymore in depth discussions on this..)

    I was prepping my wheels for an upcoming bike vacation and when I grabbed my front wheel by a couple of spokes, one snapped at the nipple. I checked the rest of them and two more broke.

    So, since i am not ready to give on these rims yet, any thoughts on if I put some super glue/epoxy/nail polish on the spoke holes to potentially minimize this happening again?
    Or should I just get them built with brass and call it a day?

    Thoughts anyone?

  5. #3205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar-man View Post
    Thoughts anyone?
    Pics
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  6. #3206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar-man View Post
    I am now a victim of the dreaded galvanic corrosion on my LB rims. (Sorry, i don't mean to start anymore in depth discussions on this..)

    Thoughts anyone?
    Pictures.

    Who built them.

    What was used to prep the nipples and spokes.

  7. #3207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar-man View Post
    I am now a victim of the dreaded galvanic corrosion on my LB rims. (Sorry, i don't mean to start anymore in depth discussions on this..)

    I was prepping my wheels for an upcoming bike vacation and when I grabbed my front wheel by a couple of spokes, one snapped at the nipple. I checked the rest of them and two more broke.

    So, since i am not ready to give on these rims yet, any thoughts on if I put some super glue/epoxy/nail polish on the spoke holes to potentially minimize this happening again?
    Or should I just get them built with brass and call it a day?

    Thoughts anyone?
    How old is your wheel build ?
    I have a 6 Berth Motorhome that I rent out . It is based in Tauranga, New Zealand

  8. #3208
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    Here ya go. Adroit, I had them built from one of the LBS here, supposedly by their veteran builder. Don't know of the prep he did.

    When I pulled the tape off, there was some moisture in there and I assume that the white grains on some of the backs of the nipples is corrosion?

    They have been in my garage the last four months, hanging in the rafters and it has been a very snowy and slushy winter so far here, resulting in my garage being very humid at times. Dunno if htat is a contributing factor or not?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-039-1024x768-.jpg  

    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-041-1024x768-.jpg  


  9. #3209
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    Quote Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post
    How old is your wheel build ?
    Had it built last July. Stopped riding on them in Oct once the snow started and they have about 700km on them.

  10. #3210
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    Holy crap! Just when I had stopped losing sleep over galvanic corrosion!
    I dreamed I ate a 10 lb marshmallow. When I awoke, my pillow was gone.

  11. #3211
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  12. #3212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar-man View Post
    Had it built last July. Stopped riding on them in Oct once the snow started and they have about 700km on them.
    Wow. That sucks. I am glad it didn't happen ten miles from the car...

    I would consider rebuilding with brass.

    Where do you live?

  13. #3213
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    silver alloy?

    I noticed the nipple failures seems to happen with silver alloy, which are not anodized
    All the big guys like Easton, Reynolds, DTSwiss, and Specialized, etc. all use anodized
    alum. alloy on their carbon wheels and don't seem to have these issues...
    Also I think the spoke on that broken nipple is too short...may have been a factor.
    Steve
    "looking California, feeling Minnesota"

  14. #3214
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    Uh....

    Quote Originally Posted by Nels View Post
    I noticed the nipple failures seems to happen with silver alloy, which are not anodized
    All the big guys like Easton, Reynolds, DTSwiss, and Specialized, etc. all use anodized
    alum. alloy on their carbon wheels and don't seem to have these issues...
    Also I think the spoke on that broken nipple is too short...may have been a factor.
    Silver alloy is still anodized. It just doesn't have any dye in the tank when they anodize it.

  15. #3215
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    Silver alloy is still anodized. It just doesn't have any dye in the tank when they anodize it.
    I just had to check that out...have some silver DT and WS nips, seems you are half correct, the WS nipple is anodized, while the DT are not. You can tell by trying to polish them with some Mothers or other alum. polish.
    Steve
    "looking California, feeling Minnesota"

  16. #3216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nels View Post
    I just had to check that out...have some silver DT and WS nips, seems you are half correct, the WS nipple is anodized, while the DT are not. You can tell by trying to polish them with some Mothers or other alum. polish.
    Rep for hard evidence - looks like the failed nipples were not anodized which is definitely not a good choice.

  17. #3217
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    Now you guys can quit beating me up for suggesting this could be a problem. Anodized should help a lot, but I still think that down the road as the anodizing wears off this will be a problem. The ENVE rims have molded spoke holes so the carbon is covered up.
    Since I didn't really consider this problem until the question was asked on this forum, I took no precautions with my first 2 sets I built. With this last set, I dipped a chopstik in a can of the copper colored never seize and poked it through each spoke hole before I built the wheels. In a couple of years I will be able to tell you if this helped.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  18. #3218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post
    Wow. That sucks. I am glad it didn't happen ten miles from the car...

    I would consider rebuilding with brass.

    Where do you live?
    I live in Calgary, Alberta.

    Yes, I am glad i found it now. I am heading down to Phoenix for a week of riding and would hate to have that front wheel break on me down htere. Could have ended up with a mouth full of Cholla cactus.

    I will get the wheel rebuilt with brass nipples, anodized at the very least.

  19. #3219
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    Now you guys can quit beating me up for suggesting this could be a problem. Anodized should help a lot, but I still think that down the road as the anodizing wears off this will be a problem. The ENVE rims have molded spoke holes so the carbon is covered up.
    Since I didn't really consider this problem until the question was asked on this forum, I took no precautions with my first 2 sets I built. With this last set, I dipped a chopstik in a can of the copper colored never seize and poked it through each spoke hole before I built the wheels. In a couple of years I will be able to tell you if this helped.
    lol... you didn't suggest it could be a problem... there was an ongoing conversation about it and you jumped in trying to sound like an expert after 10 minutes of google searching.
    the galvanic corrosion issue is far from settled, but maybe you can click over to the other thread and offer your expert opinion to the guy with disintegrating nipples in his ENVE rim, you know, since you've got all this stuff figured out.

    the hilarity rolls on...
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  20. #3220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nels View Post
    I just had to check that out...have some silver DT and WS nips, seems you are half correct, the WS nipple is anodized, while the DT are not. You can tell by trying to polish them with some Mothers or other alum. polish.
    Nels,
    Anodizing is a thin layer of aluminum oxide on the surface of any aluminum exposed to air...or more precisely oxygen. Bare aluminium will anodize itself just by sitting in air, over time. So, your DTs are anodized, if not by caustic soda, then by air. BUT, I'm pretty sure they are ano'd by caustic soda, just w/o color.

  21. #3221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar-man View Post

    When I pulled the tape off, there was some moisture in there
    What kind of tape did you use ?

  22. #3222
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    The pics look like it may be an issue w/ the spoke/nipple interface. I am no expert. It looks like a similar failure I've had on an alloy rim. I had some aluminum nipples fail on an aluminum road rim. I don't know if any spoke prep or lube was used in my build. To repeat....I am no expert, just a previous experience I had that may or may not be helpful in this discussion. Andy

  23. #3223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Nels,
    Anodizing is a thin layer of aluminum oxide on the surface of any aluminum exposed to air...or more precisely oxygen. Bare aluminium will anodize itself just by sitting in air, over time. So, your DTs are anodized, if not by caustic soda, then by air. BUT, I'm pretty sure they are ano'd by caustic soda, just w/o color.
    That doesn't sound right. Bare aluminum develops a thin oxide film, but anodizing makes a much thicker protective layer. You seem to be suggesting that letting bare aluminum sit in air will achieve the same effect. That is definitely not correct.

    I'm very surprised if that's true that silver DT nipples are not anodized.

  24. #3224
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    Quick Summary of the nipple debate:

    Facts about aluminum nipples:
    Roughly 40g per wheel set lighter than brass
    Different color options
    Higher corrosion values than brass
    Free with the purchase of DT Swiss spokes

    Facts about brass nipples:
    Tom Boonen uses them in Paris Roubaix


    Proposed test:
    Build a set of wheels with alternating nipples between brass and aluminum
    Ride the wheels in wet conditions, dry conditions, etc
    Disassemble and take close up photos and other cool engineer tests
    Post results on MTBR

    I bet DT Swiss has already performed the above tests and came to the following conclusions:
    We can sell more spokes, hubs and rims if we use aluminum nipples
    Lets give away aluminum nipples

  25. #3225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar-man View Post
    Here ya go. Adroit, I had them built from one of the LBS here, supposedly by their veteran builder. Don't know of the prep he did.

    When I pulled the tape off, there was some moisture in there and I assume that the white grains on some of the backs of the nipples is corrosion?

    They have been in my garage the last four months, hanging in the rafters and it has been a very snowy and slushy winter so far here, resulting in my garage being very humid at times. Dunno if htat is a contributing factor or not?
    Before we get too excited, I wouldn't neccessarily chalk this one up soley to corrosion. Its hard to tell from the pics, but it looks like the spoke was a few mm's short which puts the nipple purely in tension. Ideally (from what I've read ), the spoke should protrude past the plane where it seats in rim so that it's loaded in both compression and tension. Looks like a tensile failure to me. Whether or not corrision was a contributing factor is debateable. Also very well possible that you got a couple of bad nipples.

    Meltingfeather, call me out if I'm wrong here.

  26. #3226
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    Before we get too excited, I wouldn't neccessarily chalk this one up soley to corrosion. Its hard to tell from the pics, but it looks like the spoke was a few mm's short which puts the nipple purely in tension. Ideally (from what I've read ), the spoke should protrude past the plane where it seats in rim so that it's loaded in both compression and tension. Looks like a tensile failure to me. Whether or not corrision was a contributing factor is debateable. Also very well possible that you got a couple of bad nipples.

    Meltingfeather, call me out if I'm wrong here.
    Interesting. When I looked at the other broken spokes, they look like they broke around the pretty much the same spot on the nipple. Looking into the the spoke holes from the rim bed, some of the unbroken ones are protruding well into the nipple and others are recessed into the nipple.
    So, this could be a combination of a bad build and corrosion.
    i will try a different bike shop for the next build.

  27. #3227
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    I was looking for info on the question of whether silver DT nipples are anodized, and found some interesting info (or perhaps "claims") from Sapim:

    In the past, aluminum nipples had only one positive argument, the weight. All other features like corrosion resistance, friction, stiffness were specific to brass nipples. This changed in the last years drastically. All our aluminum nipples are now anodized. Salt spray tests showed better results than brass nickel plated nipples. You can choose 7 different colors. We had been able to reduce friction with a special coating. As an effect you donít need to oil or grease the nipple like you should with the brass version. For the last three years, Sapim has used the 7075 material and have additional strength added by the heat treatment T6. Alloy nipples are now stronger than brass. Aluminum nipples are more expensive but for sure much better than brass. For those who care about weight, special colors and quality, aluminum nipple is advised.

  28. #3228
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    Quote Originally Posted by spsoon View Post
    That doesn't sound right. Bare aluminum develops a thin oxide film, but anodizing makes a much thicker protective layer. You seem to be suggesting that letting bare aluminum sit in air will achieve the same effect. That is definitely not correct.

    I'm very surprised if that's true that silver DT nipples are not anodized.
    You're right on the thickness between the natural and artificial processes. However, thickness notwithstanding, aluminum will oxidize and "ano" itself.
    Now, if you pair this w/ heat treating, a hardened aluminum part with an artificially ano'd surface will be a more durable part than an identical part w/o artificial ano-ing.
    My point: it doesn't really matter if a nipple is or isn't ano'd. Check the 4th paragraph on the thickness of the artificially ano'd part, and think about how much material is removed during the wheel's tension phase during a build: The Fundamentals of TIG Welding Anodized Aluminum

    Edit: I'm pretty certain that even w/ lube, the amount of aluminum removed during tensioning will be an order of magnitude or two more than the artificially ano'd thickness.

  29. #3229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar-man View Post
    Interesting. When I looked at the other broken spokes, they look like they broke around the pretty much the same spot on the nipple. Looking into the the spoke holes from the rim bed, some of the unbroken ones are protruding well into the nipple and others are recessed into the nipple.
    So, this could be a combination of a bad build and corrosion.
    i will try a different bike shop for the next build.
    interesting... along the lines of my thinking as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  30. #3230
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    interesting... along the lines of my thinking as well.
    SO much motivation for me to rebuild my wheels w/ brass now!
    Recall me mentioning the "heavier" rim seems to have added enough thickness to the ERD to add another millimeter to the calc'd spoke length...used 292, but would rather have gone w/ 293...?

  31. #3231
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    Wikipedia puts the natural oxide layer of Al alloys at 5-15nm. Your link states a typical anodized layer is 0.0002" to 0.001". Converting both to millimeters:
    Natural oxide: 0.000005-0.000015mm
    Anodizing: 0.00508-0.0254mm

    So about 1000 times thicker. I'd say that makes a difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    think about how much material is removed during the wheel's tension phase during a build
    I'm thinking about it, and I'm thinking it's pretty much zero.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Edit: I'm pretty certain that even w/ lube, the amount of aluminum removed during tensioning will be an order of magnitude or two more than the artificially ano'd thickness.
    Anodized aluminum is harder than the stainless steel of the spokes, and probably your spoke wrench as well:
    Anodizing World: How to define the hardness of the aluminum oxide film formed by hard anodizing

    So the anodizing is 0.005-0.025mm thick, and you're saying the tensioning process removes 10-100 times that amount. Are you using a bench grinder to tension your wheels?

  32. #3232
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    Quote Originally Posted by spsoon View Post
    Wikipedia puts the natural oxide layer of Al alloys at 5-15nm. Your link states a typical anodized layer is 0.0002" to 0.001". Converting both to millimeters:
    Natural oxide: 0.000005-0.000015mm
    Anodizing: 0.00508-0.0254mm

    So about 1000 times thicker. I'd say that makes a difference.



    I'm thinking about it, and I'm thinking it's pretty much zero.



    Anodized aluminum is harder than the stainless steel of the spokes, and probably your spoke wrench as well:
    Anodizing World: How to define the hardness of the aluminum oxide film formed by hard anodizing

    So the anodizing is 0.005-0.025mm thick, and you're saying the tensioning process removes 10-100 times that amount. Are you using a bench grinder to tension your wheels?
    Personal experience:
    I've disassembled a wheel I started w/ some blue ano'd alloy nipples (wrong spoke length...too long). Where the nips contacted the stainless eyelet, a silver ring of bare alum sat, and this was w/ TriFlo lubed threads and nipple/seat.

    The surface may be harder, but the alum under is soft and will give. And when it does, you take off cracked ano'd layer along w/ some of the soft stuff...even if heat treated.

    And, let's put those numbers in perspective...at the most extreme end...
    0.025mm is 2.5% of a millimeter. Obviously, 100 times this thickness isn't right...actually about the diameter of the spoke itself, yeah? BUT, at 10x, that's only 25% of one mm. Does that sound reasonable?
    For the smaller number...0.005, 100x is 1/2mm, and 10x is 1/2 of 1% of a mm. I can totally see this amount being worn off...albeit 1/2mm would be pretty severe!

  33. #3233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Personal experience:
    I've disassembled a wheel I started w/ some blue ano'd alloy nipples (wrong spoke length...too long). Where the nips contacted the stainless eyelet, a silver ring of bare alum sat, and this was w/ TriFlo lubed threads and nipple/seat.
    Were they DT nipples? The more I look into it, the more I wonder if DT alloy nipples are anodized at all, regardless of colour. Wheelsmith and Sapim both explicitly advertise their nipples as anodized, but DT makes no mention of it at all. Perhaps they are raw aluminum with some sort of dye for the coloured versions.

    The quote above from Sapim says "All our aluminum nipples are now anodized", implying that they weren't before? So maybe it's not that unlikely that DT nipples are still not anodized.

  34. #3234
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    Quote Originally Posted by spsoon View Post
    Were they DT nipples? The more I look into it, the more I wonder if DT alloy nipples are anodized at all, regardless of colour. Wheelsmith and Sapim both explicitly advertise their nipples as anodized, but DT makes no mention of it at all. Perhaps they are raw aluminum with some sort of dye for the coloured versions.

    The quote above from Sapim says "All our aluminum nipples are now anodized", implying that they weren't before? So maybe it's not that unlikely that DT nipples are still not anodized.
    Yeah, they were. Also on red ones...and black ones.
    I'm not sure how you can lay down a layer of color w/o at least some form of ano-ing...tho I guess something like a Sharpie...

    Ya know... the thought of heat treating kinda just popped into my head about Gunnar's snapped nipple. If DT does it, and on the occasional situation where cooling was too fast, there could very well been an especially brittle nipple...but totally e-speculation on my part tho.

  35. #3235
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    anodizing and color dying are two different processes. I don't know how 'deep' the dye goes into the ano layer. In order to dye an aluminum part, it must be anodized then dipped in a dye tank. Silver ano is not dyed. I know that black requires a thicker ano layer for the dye to take well. Lighter colors require less ano thickness to take the dye. True black is the most difficult. Maybe some expert on anodizing can chime in on the thickness that the ano dye is absorbed into the ano layer. It may be possible for an anodized/dyed nipple to show silver at the rim/nipple interface without exposing the non-anodized portion of the aluminum, if that makes sense. All I know is from my home anodizing setup for bike light bodies. Again, I am no expert.

  36. #3236
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    Fat Biker - Can''t help you find the A2Z hubs but bikehubstore.com has Rotaz and Bitex hubs available - they should be comparable to the A2Z's. I'm going to go with the Bitex hubs - just over 400grams a set, $150, available in thru axle or QR.

  37. #3237
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    Soooo....carbon bars & anodized alu stems? The next bombshell?


  38. #3238
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    for anyone wondering about novatec hubs, this is an interesting read. Not a review, but a factory photo tour and article:
    Making a Novatec Hub - Pinkbike
    my carbon footprint has cleats

  39. #3239
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    Just got an e-mail from Brian stating that the new manufacturing process rims are shipping. Mine should be here next week. I'll post weights and pics when the arrive.

  40. #3240
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    Now you guys can quit beating me up for suggesting this could be a problem. Anodized should help a lot, but I still think that down the road as the anodizing wears off this will be a problem. The ENVE rims have molded spoke holes so the carbon is covered up.
    Since I didn't really consider this problem until the question was asked on this forum, I took no precautions with my first 2 sets I built. With this last set, I dipped a chopstik in a can of the copper colored never seize and poked it through each spoke hole before I built the wheels. In a couple of years I will be able to tell you if this helped.
    there is a post about corrosion on enve rims (custom build)

  41. #3241
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    Quote Originally Posted by botanicbiker View Post
    Just got an e-mail from Brian stating that the new manufacturing process rims are shipping. Mine should be here next week. I'll post weights and pics when the arrive.
    To confirm, the new process is now in effect for 29er rims?

  42. #3242
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidcarson48 View Post
    To confirm, the new process is now in effect for 29er rims?
    Yes. Originally I wasn't expecting them until after Feb 20 (as per Brian) but I got an e-mail last might stating that they shipped (along with a tracking number). They must have started the 29er wide rims earlier than anticipated.

  43. #3243
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    Re: (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Cool, thanks for the info.

  44. #3244
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    Please post pics and impressions when you get them in...I am looking at getting a set and would love to know if there are improvements in the new process.

    Thanks



    Quote Originally Posted by botanicbiker View Post
    Yes. Originally I wasn't expecting them until after Feb 20 (as per Brian) but I got an e-mail last might stating that they shipped (along with a tracking number). They must have started the 29er wide rims earlier than anticipated.

  45. #3245
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    So my ERD is exactly 600mm on both rims, measured with the DT Swiss Alu nipples.

  46. #3246
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    Anyone had any luck getting light-bicycle to honor their warranty?

    I have a pair of 700c road rims that bulged after my first descent. "Nancy" said that this was a known problem and they could warranty them no problem. I explained that I no longer could trust their road rims, but had heard good things about the wide 29er rim. She said, "no problem, but our production is delayed and it may take several weeks" This took place back in August and she kept feeding me this same line for several months and then disappeared. Last I heard from her was in November. Any tips for dealing with LB? Thanks for the help!

  47. #3247
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    Ok been wondering where to post this, but since so many wheel builders appear to frequent this thread, and I do have these carbon rims, I will ask here.

    Not sure what spoke lengths to choose, given the calculator output vs the available sizes of DT Revolution which are in 2mm increments.

    The only recommendation I came across is to round down the values coming from the spoke length equation, which the calculator already did, but to arrive at the nearest stock length seems to me a bit of a stretch in a few cases, which I'm thinking might be better to do a smaller jump in the opposite direction (e.g. make the spoke 0.1mm longer instead of 1.9mm shorter.

    (I know I can get these shortened and rethreaded in some shops, but I'd prefer to avoid that, conjuring the spoke is strongest/fittest when it's not tampered with after the initial manufacturing process.)

    So the pic of the sheet lists differences from the available stock spokes (which are 290, 292 and 294mm), where positive number means that much shorter spoke (than the one calculated).

    Simply getting the 292mm would simplify things for me in terms of stocking/replacements, but I'm not sure about getting the "rear right" spokes almost 1mm longer than what the calculator printed.

    So am I good going with 292mm?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-spokes.jpg  

    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-spokes-erd-600-292.jpg  


  48. #3248
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    Those spokes are available in every length, not just 2mm increments. I built my light-bicycle wheels with a combination of 291, 292 and 293. It would be best to buy the exact length needed, although people do get by with spokes that are off by 1mm.

  49. #3249
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    Looking at the picture you attached. for the front, I think you would need 292mm for the left and 294 for the right. I read some where that spoke length could be + or - 1 mm of calculated length. So you should round up or down to get to the nearest length available. In this case, 294 is within 1 mm of 293.5 whereas 292 is 1.5 mm so 294 would be the better choice. 292 for the back looks ok to me(but I'm just a noob and only built up 3 sets of wheels so far so you might want to wait for other more experienced members to chime in)
    Last edited by pwu_1; 02-01-2013 at 08:06 AM.

  50. #3250
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    Revolutions come in 1mm increments, I used them on my last build. General wheelbuild practice is to round down from whatever the exact calculation is. I am not sure of the origin of this practice, it was taught to me by the person that taught me to build wheels. I think the calculators calculate the spoke length to about the bottom of the nipple and all you really need is some of the thereads into the base of the nipple so rounding down works.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  51. #3251
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    Curious what the problem was? I just ordered some 38mm road wheels for use with rim brakes - have only used their rims brakeless or with disc in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2002maniac View Post
    Anyone had any luck getting light-bicycle to honor their warranty?

    I have a pair of 700c road rims that bulged after my first descent. "Nancy" said that this was a known problem and they could warranty them no problem.

  52. #3252
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    That's kind of strange. I had an issue with a 650B rim that I received from LB where a portion of the bead hook looked missing. I contacted Brian at LB and sent him some pictures. He had me mail the rim to an address in New York and once he got confirmation the defective rim was received I was sent a new rim within a week or two.
    If I were you I would e-mail them again and get a date from them and tell them if the rims do not ship by that date you want a refund.
    I would do it soon since Chinese New Year is coming up in a week and they'll most likely be on vacation for 2 weeks.

  53. #3253
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    Quote Originally Posted by ypocat View Post
    Ok been wondering where to post this, but since so many wheel builders appear to frequent this thread, and I do have these carbon rims, I will ask here......
    Not sure what spoke lengths to choose, given the calculator output vs the available sizes of DT Revolution which are in 2mm increments.......

    So am I good going with 292mm?
    Not sure if this helps, but Chad at Red Barn just built my LB wheels up with DT240s and DT Revs and he included the spoke length info, etc in the box. As many of you probably know Chad is a highly respected builder and has done up quite a few Chinese carbon builds from what he told me over the phone. Here's the info I have from the notes he included in the box...

    Rims = Chinese 29er 32h (ERD = 601)
    Hubs = DT Swiss 32H 100QR 135 QR
    Flange Diameter - F = (L-58 R-42) & R = (L- 57 R-48)

    Center to Flange
    Front Left = 290
    Front Right = 295
    Rear Left = 291
    Rear Right = 292

  54. #3254
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    The last set I built was the same DT 240 hubs with DT Revolution spokes. I used:
    Front left 291
    Front right 295
    Rear left 292
    Rear right 292
    This was rounding down from spoke calc spreadsheet that I use which came out to:
    Front left 291.2
    Front right 295
    Rear Left 292.5
    Rear Left 292.6
    The wheels came out perfect with the ends of the spokes around 1mm inside the nipples.
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  55. #3255
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    Quote Originally Posted by broadwayline View Post
    Curious what the problem was? I just ordered some 38mm road wheels for use with rim brakes - have only used their rims brakeless or with disc in the past.
    Both rims overheated and bulged at the brake track. It was a pretty scary failure on a high speed descent! they say the deeper rims are less likely to have this problem, but beware.

    Quote Originally Posted by pwu_1 View Post
    That's kind of strange. I had an issue with a 650B rim that I received from LB where a portion of the bead hook looked missing. I contacted Brian at LB and sent him some pictures. He had me mail the rim to an address in New York and once he got confirmation the defective rim was received I was sent a new rim within a week or two.
    If I were you I would e-mail them again and get a date from them and tell them if the rims do not ship by that date you want a refund.
    I would do it soon since Chinese New Year is coming up in a week and they'll most likely be on vacation for 2 weeks.
    Still have not heard a peep from them. I've tried contacting them at both their sales and support email addresses. I think they screwed me.

    Be careful with light-bicycle.com guys!

  56. #3256
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    Just wanted to throw this up...

    I rebuilt mine today ...w/ brass niplers...galvanic corrosion concerns, valid or not...whatev. And since I had them tore down, thought I'd throw them on a scale. Not nearly as light as I thought, but hey hey're stiffer than a 20 y.o. on 200mg of Viagra!
    Frt: LB wider and heavier 29er (433g), King LD, DT Swiss Comps 292mm, DT hex brass, 3X
    RR: LB wider and heavier 29er (429g), King HD 142 (ss driveshell), DT Comps 292mm, DT hex brass, 3X

    Pic taken w/o rim strip or valve...

    Didn't really use my tension meter and just went by tone. If anyone's interested, I can slap the tension meter on them and get you some numbers. Used anti-seize for thread and nipler head lube...made for one quiet build session! Normally, I'd get creaking and popping when I side-load the wheel to unwind the nipler/spokes. This time, not a peep! I think I was able to get a bit higher tension w/ anti-seize also...the nipples didn't bind on the carbon/resin as much. I can't recall who on here said they used some chopsticks to apply anti-seize, but thanks for the idea!

    Edit: Harbor Freight scale (reads as CHEAP) so accuracy might be a bit suspect...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-lb-king-comps-rr-1057g.jpg  

    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-lb-king-comp-frt-867g.jpg  

    Last edited by Pau11y; 02-04-2013 at 07:29 AM.

  57. #3257
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    Your welcome!
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    You R da guy!

    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    Your welcome!
    That was you? Yeah, that worked well! I hate that creaking/popping when I tension up a wheel...almost like you have to tension at indexed points...and then it's not really tensioning, more like just twisting the spokes. The anti-seize seems to let the spokes not wind up nearly as much and spin free of the nipples

    I was wondering what the hell I was going to do w/ all that anti-seize...$15 at an auto parts store got me 3 life-time supply of the stuff

  59. #3259
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    Before we get too excited, I wouldn't neccessarily chalk this one up soley to corrosion. Its hard to tell from the pics, but it looks like the spoke was a few mm's short which puts the nipple purely in tension. Ideally (from what I've read ), the spoke should protrude past the plane where it seats in rim so that it's loaded in both compression and tension. Looks like a tensile failure to me. Whether or not corrision was a contributing factor is debateable. Also very well possible that you got a couple of bad nipples.

    Meltingfeather, call me out if I'm wrong here.
    +1

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  60. #3260
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    Pau11y: I have had my "jar" of anti-sieze for probably 10 years and it is still close to half full, but there are times when nothing else works. I recommend to use it on lug nuts since they often get "intimate" with alloy wheels and the time you need to remove them you often do not have an impact.
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  61. #3261
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    Copper or Nickel anti-seize? Any preferences?

  62. #3262
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    Pau11y: I have had my "jar" of anti-sieze for probably 10 years and it is still close to half full, but there are times when nothing else works. I recommend to use it on lug nuts since they often get "intimate" with alloy wheels and the time you need to remove them you often do not have an impact.
    Yup, I'm using anti-seize everywhere (liberally) that requires lubrication on parts that doesn't see constant rotation...on cars and bikes. But liberally is kinda subjective w/ anti-seize...it doesn't take much at all! And, it's amazing how quiet your bike becomes once you switch over to anti-seize vs grease on threaded parts!

    But be careful w/ the stuff around rugs...makes an awful mess! The only thing I've found that works is Oxyclean based rug cleaner.

  63. #3263
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2002maniac View Post
    Both rims overheated and bulged at the brake track. It was a pretty scary failure on a high speed descent! they say the deeper rims are less likely to have this problem, but beware.



    Still have not heard a peep from them. I've tried contacting them at both their sales and support email addresses. I think they screwed me.

    Be careful with light-bicycle.com guys!
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  64. #3264
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    I bought the 23.5mm wide carbon rims from Carbonality. Ran them tubeless for cyclocross. After a couple CX races I noticed a bulge around one rim and a crack on another. They were cracking at the valve hole. I emailed Jason, whom has been in this thread several times (I think someone rudely referred to him as a "shill" once) , and he took care of me immediately! Great service! I have two new rims coming, only had to pay like 20 bucks for shipping.

    He said they were aware of the issue on that run of rims and they have since been beefed up, redesigned. I think I bought these back in June or July... Anyway, I'm bummed I have to rebuild them, that was PITA! Aluminum nips and Rev's just weren't playing nice. But, I'm pretty stoked on his service. I'll buy more stuff from him for sure! 650b frame and wheels will be next!



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  65. #3265
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    For those of you who arent following the ENVE Al nipple corrosion thread on the wheel forum, here is a picture. The guy paid $2700 for his set of wheels ($800 just for each rim) and ENVE pretty much said he is SOL. Ill take my light bicycles rims any day @ $160 each for the rims.


  66. #3266
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    Re: (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Rim hookless is worth?

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  67. #3267
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    I know this has been in the thread, but i wasnt sure i was going to get some of these carbon wheels so I didn't take note of where it was but....Ihave a set of LB thinner 29 carbon wheels ordered expected to arrive in the next couple of days, and I want to do a stans tape Kind of tubeless. My question is.., what width tape should I use? And if anyone took note could they tell me where in the thread I can see this kind of info, I would be very greatful. I have read almost all of the pages here and am very thankful for all the great information

  68. #3268
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    21mm tape and standard 26" rim strip. You can try the XC 29er rim strip, but I feel they fit too loose on the rim.
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  69. #3269
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    light-bicycle.com "new process" 29er wheels

    Ordered these from light-bicycle.com 22nd January, USPS tried delivering them February 5th, actually got them on the 6th. Very good communication from Brian.

    • "Wider" 29" rim on new early 2013 mold/process
    • Novatec D711/D712 hubs
    • 32 spoke
    • Alloy nipples
    • No decals

    Without tape, skewers etc. weights come in at 696g front and 840g rear. Seem nice and true, quick ping test suggests pretty even spoke tension. I'll be running these with tubes.

    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-front.jpg

    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-rear.jpg

  70. #3270
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    I just received my 29AM rims as well and they look great. Holes are perfectly round and smooth edges. Finishing was fantastic. I can't wait to try the rickers stickers I just received. They replace the liner and should save me about an additional ounce.

    Yamon.

  71. #3271
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    Thanks. i will try out some stans tape and see how it goes.

  72. #3272
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    How many clicks or ratcheting stops, sometimes called points-of-engagement, does the rear Novatec D711/D712 hubs hub have during one freewheel revolution?

    Thanks!

  73. #3273
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    Just picked mine up from USPS. These are new process, wider, "normal" weight 29er, 32h, matte - 385g/396g. Fit and finish looks really good. Bead hooks are perfectly smooth. Holes are all straight and smooth edged as well.

  74. #3274
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    Quote Originally Posted by botanicbiker View Post
    Just picked mine up from USPS. These are new process, wider, "normal" weight 29er, 32h, matte - 385g/396g. Fit and finish looks really good. Bead hooks are perfectly smooth. Holes are all straight and smooth edged as well.
    Put the two side by side and rotate them thru at least 90 degrees to see how flat they are

    Are these fab'd w/ the new process?

  75. #3275
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    Pau11y: I have had my "jar" of anti-sieze for probably 10 years and it is still close to half full, but there are times when nothing else works. I recommend to use it on lug nuts since they often get "intimate" with alloy wheels and the time you need to remove them you often do not have an impact.
    So I was digging around on roadbikereview.com since they've adopted cf rims well before we did and came across these:
    Titanium Bike Wheel Nipples - Bicycle Spoke Nipples | Titan Wheel Tech Bicycle Components

    I'm not suggesting Ti nipples, but rather the use of anti-seize. Seems there is a legit precedence for the use of anti-seize to prep spokes/nipples!

  76. #3276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Put the two side by side and rotate them thru at least 90 degrees to see how flat they are

    Are these fab'd w/ the new process?
    Yes, these were made with the new process.

    I put them on our kitchen island counter, which I know is level. One is perfectly flat, the other has a small <16th" fluctuation.

  77. #3277
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    Quote Originally Posted by spaceharrier View Post
    Ordered these from light-bicycle.com 22nd January, USPS tried delivering them February 5th, actually got them on the 6th. Very good communication from Brian.

    • "Wider" 29" rim on new early 2013 mold/process
    • Novatec D711/D712 hubs
    • 32 spoke
    • Alloy nipples
    • No decals

    Without tape, skewers etc. weights come in at 696g front and 840g rear. Seem nice and true, quick ping test suggests pretty even spoke tension. I'll be running these with tubes.
    So one minor initial concern: these are an absolute bastard to get tires onto. In fact, I haven't successfully managed to get my tires on (Small Block 8 rear, Ignitor front). Bent one Park tire lever getting the Ignitor on only to have pinched the tube, and wasn't able to get the SB8 all the way on -- and that's a tire that's mountable without levers on my old rims.

    Definitely the hardest to mount rims I've owned. Any tips for things that aren't likely to damage the carbon?

    EDIT: The problem here was my technique. Once I followed the method suggested below (post #3280) the tires went on just fine.
    Last edited by spaceharrier; 02-09-2013 at 11:26 AM.

  78. #3278
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    Hmmm... mine weren't a problem. They were snug, but not any harder than any of my other rims. I'm running a Bontrater Jones XR1 on the rear (the square blocky one) and a WTB Werewolf LT 2.55. My Werewolf wouldn't seal up tubeless with Stan's tape alone reliably, but the Jones sealed up with a Bontrager rim strip, and it was snug, but not so snug I couldn't do it by hand.

    My Bontrager Mustang 29er rim brake rims are a total bastard to get the tires on.

    Quote Originally Posted by spaceharrier View Post
    So one minor initial concern: these are an absolute bastard to get tires onto. In fact, I haven't successfully managed to get my tires on (Small Block 8 rear, Ignitor front). Bent one Park tire lever getting the Ignitor on only to have pinched the tube, and wasn't able to get the SB8 all the way on -- and that's a tire that's mountable without levers on my old rims.

    Definitely the hardest to mount rims I've owned. Any tips for things that aren't likely to damage the carbon?

  79. #3279
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    Quote Originally Posted by botanicbiker View Post
    Yes, these were made with the new process.
    Any issue w/ getting tires on your? Seems someone else is having some problems getting tires on some rims that he received recently.

  80. #3280
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    Hate to tell you but it is probably your technique. Put the tire inside the rim with bead on both sides of the rim. Start away from the valve on one side and work the bead on in both directions until you get to the valve area. While using your thumb, pull the bead tight as though you are trying to pull the last bit over and on. While doing this take the other hand and run it around the rim pushing the bead into the center of the rim. As you do this the thumb should be taking up the new slack you are making. Now that the bead is in the channel, use both thumbs to put the last bit over the rim edge. Do the same procedure with the other side. This side will be harder because you will really have to push to get the bead down in the channel since the other bead is already there and you will have to push it out of the way to some extent.
    I showed a guy that had been a mountain biker for 10 years and done many tires this technique and he was shocked at how much easier it was than what he had been doing. These rims with tape are easy to get the tires on. With Bontrager rim strips they are moderately hard, but no where near the hardest.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  81. #3281
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    Hate to tell you but it is probably your technique. Put the tire inside the rim with bead on both sides of the rim. Start away from the valve on one side and work the bead on in both directions until you get to the valve area. While using your thumb, pull the bead tight as though you are trying to pull the last bit over and on. While doing this take the other hand and run it around the rim pushing the bead into the center of the rim. As you do this the thumb should be taking up the new slack you are making. Now that the bead is in the channel, use both thumbs to put the last bit over the rim edge. Do the same procedure with the other side. This side will be harder because you will really have to push to get the bead down in the channel since the other bead is already there and you will have to push it out of the way to some extent.
    I showed a guy that had been a mountain biker for 10 years and done many tires this technique and he was shocked at how much easier it was than what he had been doing. These rims with tape are easy to get the tires on. With Bontrager rim strips they are moderately hard, but no where near the hardest.
    Actually I'm certainly hoping it's my technique. I'll give what you describe a go.

  82. #3282
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    The other thought to consider is that your wheels were under-tensioned when they were built. I think I remember other people that bought the rims built up by the factory reporting that the tension was too low.
    I built up and tensioned my rims myself and noticed the tension went down once I mounted and inflated the tires. So, although they are very stiff laterally, they do have vertical compliance (which is nice for the ride). Increasing the tension on an under-tensioned wheel would make it smaller in diameter and easier to put on a tire. By how much, I honestly don't know. And I'm not advocating increasing the tension just for that reason, but am thinking that if you are having so much trouble putting on a tire it may be worth at least confirming proper spoke tension.


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  83. #3283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Any issue w/ getting tires on your? Seems someone else is having some problems getting tires on some rims that he received recently.
    Just mounted up a Racing Ralph (2.25) and a Nobbie Nic (2.35) easily and without a tire lever.

  84. #3284
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    I built up the rear and it built up really nicely and was very easy to get true. High tension was really easy to get, but I am a little concerned I built it with higher than optimal tension. By the time I checked it and had it done, the drive side was at 148. I know they specify 180 as the limit in tension, but 148 is higher than I have ever built a wheel with. Is there any downside to leaving it that high?

  85. #3285
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by Haymarket View Post
    I built up the rear and it built up really nicely and was very easy to get true. High tension was really easy to get, but I am a little concerned I built it with higher than optimal tension. By the time I checked it and had it done, the drive side was at 148. I know they specify 180 as the limit in tension, but 148 is higher than I have ever built a wheel with. Is there any downside to leaving it that high?
    Wow. 32 spoke 3x?

    What hubs, spokes and nipples? Any spoke prep?

  86. #3286
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by Haymarket View Post
    I know they specify 180 as the limit in tension, but 148 is higher than I have ever built a wheel with. Is there any downside to leaving it that high?
    Yes. You've put unnecessarily high stress on the other components of the wheel.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  87. #3287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post
    Wow. 32 spoke 3x?

    What hubs, spokes and nipples? Any spoke prep?
    Hadleys with Sapim double butted (2.0/1.8) spokes and aluminum nipples. I used Never Seize on the threads and light oil in the spoke holes, like I usually do. 3x.
    Last edited by Haymarket; 02-08-2013 at 03:30 PM.

  88. #3288
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Yes. You've put unnecessarily high stress on the other components of the wheel.
    I also built my rear wheel with the same tension as Haymarket with similar setup (32 1.5 mm Pillar round spokes, 3x, Al nipples, DT Swiss 240S hubs).

    So, what is the highest tension you recommend? .

  89. #3289
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    It would be best to use normal tension with these rims. For one thing, there is no advantage to the higher tension. It won't make a noticeably stiffer wheel. In fact, wheel stiffness has almost nothing to do with tension as long as the spokes aren't loose. Also, there is the possibility of ripping the hub flange apart. I've personally witnessed that 3 times in my life. Ive also seen spokes ripped out of nipples and nipples pulled through rims. I can't say for sure that these failures happened due to too high of tension, but why take the chance? There really isn't a benefit to running higher tension.

  90. #3290
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    For one thing, there is no advantage to the higher tension.
    The only advantage is the wheels propensity to stay true but this is associated to equal tension just as much as high tension (IMHO).

    The rims design for high tension is based on lower spoke 2x configurations. Think Mavic Crossmax hubs, straight pull, 24 count.

  91. #3291
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    It would be best to use normal tension with these rims. For one thing, there is no advantage to the higher tension. It won't make a noticeably stiffer wheel. In fact, wheel stiffness has almost nothing to do with tension as long as the spokes aren't loose. Also, there is the possibility of ripping the hub flange apart. I've personally witnessed that 3 times in my life. Ive also seen spokes ripped out of nipples and nipples pulled through rims. I can't say for sure that these failures happened due to too high of tension, but why take the chance? There really isn't a benefit to running higher tension.
    So, how much would "normal" be on the drive side with my setup?

    Jobst Brandt does not specify much about specific figures in his book and uses the tone to tune the wheel. Also Roger Musson claims that he does not use tensiometers and build his wheels from the tone, but he actually once mention a specific figure, 130 kgf, in his long text, "Professional Guide to Wheel Building" 5th Ed. page 60 : "The lowest tensioned wheels I build use lightweight ZTR rims with a recommended tension of 95 kg (930 N) and all other rims I build are 130 kg (1250 N) and each wheel perform fine". I assume 130 kgf is the average spoke tension i.e. average of left and right side. The rear wheel drive side will have much more (almost double) tension compared to the non-drive side to be correctly dished and with the Haymarket's 148 (kgf) on the drive side the average spoke tension will be well below 130 kgf. Or, have I misunderstood, is the spoke tension Roger (and Light Bicycle) talk about, the maximum spoke tension on any side of the wheel and not the average? This is a huge difference when we are talking about the rear wheel.

  92. #3292
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    The rims are rated for very high tension, but that is not the only consideration. The hubs are also rated and I would bet at a somewhat lower tension and the spokes are also rated although they probably are almost as high as the rims. That said, you need to find the rating for your hubs and let that be your guide. If you can't find that, I generally shoot for 20 on the Park guage on the "tight" side. I generally end up with the highest readings around 18-20 and the other side will generally end up around 10-16 depending on the offset, flange height , etc. The most likely problem with building too high tension is the flange breaking.
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  93. #3293
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    The rims are rated for very high tension, but that is not the only consideration. The hubs are also rated and I would bet at a somewhat lower tension and the spokes are also rated although they probably are almost as high as the rims. That said, you need to find the rating for your hubs and let that be your guide. If you can't find that, I generally shoot for 20 on the Park guage on the "tight" side. I generally end up with the highest readings around 18-20 and the other side will generally end up around 10-16 depending on the offset, flange height , etc. The most likely problem with building too high tension is the flange breaking.
    I have sapim double butted (is it byooted or butt-ed?) and have about 24 on the drive side and 18 on the non drive side.

  94. #3294
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    Regarding some hubs having a recommended max tension, as an example, here's an excerpt out of the Chris King hub manual:

    Wheel building
    [...] Disc brake wheels must be laced using a 3-or-more-cross lacing pattern. As the
    torque generated by driving the cassette requires crossed spokes, so does the
    additional torque on the non-drive side flange generated by the braking action.
    Radial lacing your ISO hubs is considered outside of the intended use and will void
    your warranty. [...]
    The front ISO should be laced 3-or-more-cross with the rotor (left) side pulling spokes
    (relative to braking direction) heads out/elbows in (when laced 3-cross). The final
    cross of the pulling spoke must be on the outside so that, as braking force is applied,
    increased pulling spoke tension will pull the crossed spokes towards the center of
    the hub and away from the caliper. Lace the wheel symmetrically.
    The spoke tension on each side of the wheel should be as uniform as possible.
    Tension should not exceed 120kgf (1200N).
    Proper wheel building technique is essential in creating a strong wheel. Wheel
    building is a skill that requires proper training and specialized tools and should be done
    by a trained professional.
    Except from another part of the CK site:

    In rare cases, when the wheel has been built at very high tension, the large drive side bearing can become loose and cause creaking.

  95. #3295
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    Re: (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Mark, for later reading.

  96. #3296
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    Note that a max tensile force rating of the rim for spokes is not the same as the advisable spoke tension when building the wheel.
    A "normal" spoke tension is about 110 kgf for the rear drive side and left front (when using disc hubs). Going (much) higher should not be needed (unloaded spokes during use will not detension completely) and will not make a stiffer wheel (this has been discussed at length on this forum).
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  97. #3297
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    Hate to tell you but it is probably your technique. Put the tire inside the rim with bead on both sides of the rim. Start away from the valve on one side and work the bead on in both directions until you get to the valve area. While using your thumb, pull the bead tight as though you are trying to pull the last bit over and on. While doing this take the other hand and run it around the rim pushing the bead into the center of the rim. As you do this the thumb should be taking up the new slack you are making. Now that the bead is in the channel, use both thumbs to put the last bit over the rim edge. Do the same procedure with the other side. This side will be harder because you will really have to push to get the bead down in the channel since the other bead is already there and you will have to push it out of the way to some extent.
    I showed a guy that had been a mountain biker for 10 years and done many tires this technique and he was shocked at how much easier it was than what he had been doing. These rims with tape are easy to get the tires on. With Bontrager rim strips they are moderately hard, but no where near the hardest.
    OK, so it was indeed my technique -- what you suggested worked just fine. My (just now invented) excuse is that looking at the rim cross section the edges where the bead seats are wider and flatter than I'm used to. Think all my other rims in living memory have had steeper and narrower runs into the channel causing the bead to get pulled into it by itself when pulled on the opposite side.

    So anyway, tucking the bead into the center channel by hand let these seat up without levers. Thanks.

  98. #3298
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    Is anyone in the States building up custom wheels with the Chinese carbon rims? I don't want to deal with ordering, shipping and building them myself. Lazy, I know.

  99. #3299
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeZee View Post
    I hope your results are better than mine......

    Good luck with that junk.

  100. #3300
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlazedHam View Post
    Is anyone in the States building up custom wheels with the Chinese carbon rims? I don't want to deal with ordering, shipping and building them myself. Lazy, I know.
    bikeempowerment.com does. I just ordered the rims myself and had them shipped to Chad at Red Barn Bicycles to be built up.

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