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  1. #776
    ballbuster
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    Heh...

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown View Post
    I know the issue has been raised before in this thread, but worrying more about your self-preservation and well being with the equipment you choose trumps any price/cost issue.

    This whole thread reminds me of a similar one to the Magic Shine lights when they first came out. Sure they were cheap and "worked" according to hundreds of posters in a thread similar to this, but if you have followed the entire history of that light you might think twice before springing for these carbon rims (for lack of a better analogy). I would put the safety of the rims and your personal well being at the very top of the list as being much more important than a lighting device.

    Bombing down a hill, going over rocks and roots on a tree lined singletrack at full tilt. Do you have complete confidence in your equipment, or is there any thought of possible equipment fail? The price may be inconsequential in the long run.

    My thoughts.

    BB
    I got two of those lights, and rode the crud out of them. After warrantying one battery, buying a second outright, and building a couple of two cell batteries for strapping directly to my helmet, I'm still way ahead of rebuilding my NiteRider battery.

    For the cost of these rims, I can buy two to build and ride, two more for spares for the price of one Enve carbon rim. I think the whole catastrophic failure discussion is nothing but fear mongering.

  2. #777
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    Putting more miles on my rims each week. They are performing wonderfully! Sooooooo happy with them.
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    07 S-Works Enduro SL - Sold
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    2012 Stumpy EVO 29er frame up build

  3. #778
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    For the cost of these rims, I can buy two to build and ride, two more for spares for the price of one Enve carbon rim. I think the whole catastrophic failure discussion is nothing but fear mongering.
    It could be, but we all have to make choices with our equipment. Those choices include cost, safety, intended use, rider weight, riding style, type of bike, etc... . I've been looking at these rims as well for a possible build, but until some more of the kinks are worked out (i.e. there are too many posts in this thread that I would rate as poor quality control from the manufacturer) and many months of off road riding/racing occur with the test guinea pigs with reports back of how the rims have held up - I will wait to see.

    I do hope that your carbon rims perform and hold up better than the "cheap" rim you highlight in your December 17th, 2011 blog post.

    "I was rolling down some stairs that go into a switchback, when I leaned too hard on the outside bar while applying the front brake. Wups. The wheel just folded over like Newt Gingrich after a call from Grover Norquist. Rim was cracked at the pinned seam (yeah, it was a cheapo rim)..."
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-img_1971.jpg  


  4. #779
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    Quote Originally Posted by juansevo View Post
    However I've seen the carnage of cheap carbon rims on many sub-wheel brands
    Pics? Links? Reviews?

    Considering carbon rims are not yet common, I don't understand how you've seen "many".

  5. #780
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    Quote Originally Posted by figo View Post
    One thing which could help if the spokes are slightly too long is to use American Classic nipples, those require the spokes to be 1 mm longer than with normal nipples so might just solve it (if you run out of thread now).

    Thanks for the info. I hope a LBS has some on hand.

  6. #781
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    Quote Originally Posted by red5jedi View Post
    Well after building the rear I find the drive side spokes are 1-2mm too long (stick out above the nipple). That suck but the wheel should be fine (right?). Also trying to get spoke tension up that high is freaking so hard.
    I had the same issue with the wheels I built using these rims, except the driveside on the rear wheel came out 2-4mm long (Sapim Laser). This was my first build using 1.5 spokes and basically got bit by tolerance stack up. It really boils down to thread engagement, and even at 4mm long, there is still plenty of engagement for sufficient mechanical strength. I started a thread in the wheel forum asking this question and didn't get much. I decided it was a manageable risk and so far have 15hrs of riding without issue.
    2.0/1.5/2.0 spoke stretch/length

    Could you be more specific on why you are having problems bringing the tension up? When the spoke is too long, the nipple threads can bottom out on the spoke shank, but it all depends on the specific spoke/nipple combination if or when this happens. This can cause extra friction that must be over come when tightening the nipple. A couple of the long spokes on my rear wheel were a little bit harder to turn, but nothing that would cause the nipple head to strip.

  7. #782
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    Thanks

  8. #783
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    I just ordered a pair of the 26" wide rims. I'll keep everyone posted on how they turn out!

    If they worked out well, I'll be getting a set for my race bike as well

  9. #784
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    Quote Originally Posted by macming View Post
    I just ordered a pair of the 26" wide rims. I'll keep everyone posted on how they turn out!

    If they worked out well, I'll be getting a set for my race bike as well
    Wow, those are really wide! :P

  10. #785
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    Time for a re-thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    I had the same issue with the wheels I built using these rims, except the driveside on the rear wheel came out 2-4mm long (Sapim Laser). This was my first build using 1.5 spokes and basically got bit by tolerance stack up. It really boils down to thread engagement, and even at 4mm long, there is still plenty of engagement for sufficient mechanical strength. I started a thread in the wheel forum asking this question and didn't get much. I decided it was a manageable risk and so far have 15hrs of riding without issue.
    2.0/1.5/2.0 spoke stretch/length

    Could you be more specific on why you are having problems bringing the tension up? When the spoke is too long, the nipple threads can bottom out on the spoke shank, but it all depends on the specific spoke/nipple combination if or when this happens. This can cause extra friction that must be over come when tightening the nipple. A couple of the long spokes on my rear wheel were a little bit harder to turn, but nothing that would cause the nipple head to strip.
    The better shops should have a spoke threader.
    The wheel is a extension of the foot

  11. #786
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    Could you be more specific on why you are having problems bringing the tension up? When the spoke is too long, the nipple threads can bottom out on the spoke shank, but it all depends on the specific spoke/nipple combination if or when this happens. This can cause extra friction that must be over come when tightening the nipple. A couple of the long spokes on my rear wheel were a little bit harder to turn, but nothing that would cause the nipple head to strip.
    Iím using Sapim Polyax Al locking nipples. The wheel was hard to tension maybe due to my spoke wrench (park SW-0). It just doesnít give you the leverage and also trying to hold the spoke down low near the nipple was some work. I found it easier to loosen up the non-drive side, then tighten down the drive side then back over to the other side. Other times I try to bring both sides into tension at the same time. Iíve built only a few wheels and like, and hate it all at the same time.

  12. #787
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    I'm sure it will

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown View Post
    It could be, but we all have to make choices with our equipment. Those choices include cost, safety, intended use, rider weight, riding style, type of bike, etc... . I've been looking at these rims as well for a possible build, but until some more of the kinks are worked out (i.e. there are too many posts in this thread that I would rate as poor quality control from the manufacturer) and many months of off road riding/racing occur with the test guinea pigs with reports back of how the rims have held up - I will wait to see.

    I do hope that your carbon rims perform and hold up better than the "cheap" rim you highlight in your December 17th, 2011 blog post.

    "I was rolling down some stairs that go into a switchback, when I leaned too hard on the outside bar while applying the front brake. Wups. The wheel just folded over like Newt Gingrich after a call from Grover Norquist. Rim was cracked at the pinned seam (yeah, it was a cheapo rim)..."
    I'd like to point out that I'm 20 pounds over the weight limit of this DT Swiss x470 rim I folded over, riding down steep stairs around a switchback while fully tucked behind the saddle, and I made a pretty big 'freak out' mistake at very low speed by grabbing a bunch of front brake with the bars cocked pretty much sideways. I don't think any XC grade aluminum rim would have survived that. This is after I pounded down rock gardens at speed, and high speed fireroad ruts for a year with no issues at all. I beat the tar out of it, and never even trued the wheel after I built it. Although, this wheel always felt kinda noodley from the get-go. I was saying it was a cheap rim because even though it was not particularly light, it felt noodley like a flyweight rim, feeling about as stiff as the 24 spoke Bontrager XXXRacelite 600 gram wheel I raced on for a few years. I think they used an alloy to make that rim out of aluminum and soft cheese.

    I'd also like to point out that this is the first rim I have actually bent beyond repair in like 10 years. I am typically not hard on rims, despite my, uh, bulk. I crashed once pretty badly at Demo Forrest and broke a couple of ribs, but my front wheel only needed some truing to bring it back in line. That was a WTB SpeedDisc rim. I'm still riding that wheel, BTW.

    I'm considering the 30mm AM carbon rims, which are actually lighter than the x470 and I'm sure way stiffer. Carbon doesn't bend. It reaches it's yield point and breaks, and that yield point is way higher than the bend point of any alu rim.

    All of the QC issues we have seen on these rims revolve around how the bead was shaped, or the finish work. I have yet to see any failures. If there are any failures, I would love to hear some real first hand information on them, not just 'I heard' kinda stuff.

    Really, I'm probably a year off of plunking down my fat cash for a set of these rims. I think that is plenty of time to let the mtbr community beta test these things for me.

    The reason I personally think this is all fear mongering hype is because there is zero evidence of what the fear mongers are trying to convey... that is, the hyperbole that these are poorly made rims that are unsafe and going to fail and make a whole bunch of dentists across our fair nation very rich.

    If there is any truth to that, let's see the carnage. Oh wait, there isn't any.
    Last edited by pimpbot; 03-21-2012 at 09:15 PM.

  13. #788
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    First ride on mine yesterday. Damn, they are nice!! Could not be happier. I will keep you posted long term.
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  14. #789
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    For those that have built these light bicycle wheels did you use nipple backing washers? If so where did you source them?

  15. #790
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    My tracking info says the 24th Of course, it's been DUMPING rain in Kansas City so probably no ride for at least a weak or so...

  16. #791
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikekayakhike View Post
    First ride on mine yesterday. Damn, they are nice!! Could not be happier. I will keep you posted long term.
    Have you noticed any difference when riding compared to your (presumably aluminum) old rims? Can you elaborate?

    If you could do it over would you? If you need to replace them in a year will you get lite-bicycle rims again or would yo look elsewhere?

    Thanks!

  17. #792
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    Just got my UD wide 29er rims for fat kids today and they look flawless. Having them laced to Chris King hubs with DT Revolutions. Will report in with the full build when I get the wheels back.

  18. #793
    bt
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    my god the hand wringing....

  19. #794
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    Quote Originally Posted by misooscar View Post
    For those that have built these light bicycle wheels did you use nipple backing washers? If so where did you source them?
    I didn't use them but I found this place.
    Washers

  20. #795
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    That was the place I found as well, ended up however ordering them from the same place where I got my (Sapim) spokes from

  21. #796
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    That TM1 is a shitty tool!

    The one in my shop reads like 30kgf higher on a built wheel than the one at another LBS downtown.

    I was rounding nipples on my carbon road bike wheels at "125kgf" and I diddnt know what the hell was happening. The tool was new out of the box too!
    Raised in a Chicken-Coop by Chickens

  22. #797
    meh
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    One of them needs to be recalibrated then, if its being used in a shop then its prob seeing a lot of usage, time to send it in to Park

  23. #798
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepo5669 View Post
    That TM1 is a shitty tool!

    The one in my shop reads like 30kgf higher on a built wheel than the one at another LBS downtown.

    I was rounding nipples on my carbon road bike wheels at "125kgf" and I diddnt know what the hell was happening. The tool was new out of the box too!
    Were you reading the conversion chart right?
    TM-1 is a fine tool. You might have gotten one that wasn't calibrated right, but that's like saying carbon road wheels are shitty because I saw a guy who had a pair with a flat.
    A poster here just recently told me how the DT Swiss spoke calc was crappy and "wrong" because he didn't know what ō meant and was plugging in the wrong numbers.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  24. #799
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    I searched this thread and didn't see a lot of detail on tubeless set up. Do these carbon rims from 'Nancy' seat up well with tubeless and handle low pressures well with just yellow tape? I helped a friend set up his carbon Rovals and couldn't believe how easily they set up.

  25. #800
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    Quote Originally Posted by floxy View Post
    I searched this thread and didn't see a lot of detail on tubeless set up. Do these carbon rims from 'Nancy' seat up well with tubeless and handle low pressures well with just yellow tape? I helped a friend set up his carbon Rovals and couldn't believe how easily they set up.
    I rode on my set today (pictures will follow one of these days), and I didn't notice any difference compared to my regular ZTR Flow wheels... but I suppose that's a good thing.

    HOWEVER... the tubeless fit is not as good as I was hoping, and burping will happen, probably even with 2 wraps of Gorilla tape... so if you want to ride very low pressures, i would advise the ZTR Arch EX rim over this one...

    I might still try a tubeless rimstrip from bontrager, someone said that helped?

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