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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by indyfab25 View Post
    It is what they call the AM rim. I do not know what the other rim bead looks like.
    Did you guy weigh the rims and wheels after you'd built them up? What spokes and hubs did you use? Any problems with th wheel builds?

    How are they holding up?

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Ah. The "XC" rims definitely do not appear to have a "UST" profile.

    The "AM" rims do, though.
    The AM rim might look closer than the XC rim to UST, but neither rim has a UST profile.

    The bead shelf diameter is the most critical dimension that plays a role in tubeless compatibility, but this is not shown in either drawing.
    Tire Design & Development Engineer. The opinions expressed in this forum are solely my own.

  3. #103
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    Light Bicycle XC 29 Rims with what they told me was the 'old' slightly beefier lay-up (415g). I should add, that I used nylon strapping tape for rim strip (my usual), and got them running tubeless without any problem.
    Tires
    F: Specialized S-works Ground Control 29x2.1
    R: Maxxis Ikon 29x2.2
    American Classic hubs.
    F: 32 hole, QR15
    R: 32 hole, 142x12
    Spokes: Sapim CX-Ray, 3x, all 292mm
    Didnt weigh after build with Sapims. The math says high 1400's.
    Im 210lbs, theyre on my Niner Rip9. I gave them another bashing the other night and all is still well!

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Do you mean the Park tensiometer? or 2.0mm on the DT Swiss meter?

    Also, the reading is meaningless without the spoke gauge in either case.
    You are right. Park. DT Competition. Brass nips.

    Would you have built them differently?
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by indyfab25 View Post
    Would you have built them differently?
    I probably would have taken the tension a bit higher.
    20 on the Park TM-1 = 94 kgf if you're using the 2.0/1.8 Comps
    I'd probably go to 21.5-22.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  6. #106
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    vwn8 can you confirm an ERD of 603mm

    I guess I could back it out of for 292mm spokes. Just too lazy. I'm considering the XC rims for a build, if I an get some hubs cheap.

  7. #107
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jwiffle View Post
    I think our "argument" was kind of silly. In my original statement, I was responding to what tension should be used, and I mentioned I would use a normal to slightly high tension of 120-125 kgf. But I can see how you took it as relating tension and wheel stiffness. Which I was, and generally, I was wrong on that aspect.
    10-4

    Quote Originally Posted by Jwiffle View Post
    I have seen wheel manufacturers state that the high tensions they allow make for a stiffer wheel (Koolstof for one).
    I have also seen this error made by reps for manufacturers. unfortunate...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jwiffle View Post
    I did find a site with various tests and theories that state that spoke tension does play a role in wheel stiffness. Great wheel test – Part 3 – Stiffness | Roues Artisanales Their data asserts that "high tensioned spokes...delay the moment when the wheel loses all its stiffness." If I'm understanding them correctly, they're saying that the higher tension doesn't necessarily add stiffness, just keeps it from losing stiffness under load (i.e., keeps the side being de-tensioned under load from going slack, causing the loss in stiffness).
    That's why the qualification, "as long as no spokes go slack" is usually applied to the statement that stiffness is not affected by tension.
    They are clear in separating the two, but I think the way that they tied them together can contribute to confusion.
    Normal bike wheels are not designed to get to the point of slack spokes. They become very unstable and often buckle under that condition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jwiffle View Post
    Brandt does, though, state that spoke thickness plays a part in the stiffness of the wheel.
    Spoke gauge does affect stiffness because it affects the elasticity of the spokes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jwiffle View Post
    I think, though, that we were more in agreement overall than not. 180kgf is too high to build a wheel, and normal tension in the 120 kgf range should be fine.
    agreed.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  9. #109
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    I just purchased a set of the Light bicycle 29er AM rims (155 each). I put them on the scale. 380 Grams. They look identical to my Specialized Carbon Roval SL rims. I'm lacing them to Chris King hubs. I'm curious to see how they compare.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cantbeataktm View Post
    I just purchased a set of the Light bicycle 29er AM rims (155 each). I put them on the scale. 380 Grams. They look identical to my Specialized Carbon Roval SL rims. I'm lacing them to Chris King hubs. I'm curious to see how they compare.
    Whoa, that's light. And quite a difference from indyfab's 440g.

    Let us know how they do! I'm still waiting on mine.
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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cantbeataktm View Post
    I just purchased a set of the Light bicycle 29er AM rims (155 each). I put them on the scale. 380 Grams. They look identical to my Specialized Carbon Roval SL rims. I'm lacing them to Chris King hubs. I'm curious to see how they compare.
    Interesting weight difference, what kind of finish did you get?

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cantbeataktm View Post
    I just purchased a set of the Light bicycle 29er AM rims (155 each). I put them on the scale. 380 Grams. They look identical to my Specialized Carbon Roval SL rims. I'm lacing them to Chris King hubs. I'm curious to see how they compare.
    Can you get a picture of the 2 next to each other?

  13. #113
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    Quote "Spoke gauge does affect stiffness because it affects the elasticity of the spokes."
    I understand where you're coming from and appreciate your posts.
    Any idea though why the wheels in Paris Roubaix supposedly are laced at a low tension?
    Probably the hardest stressed wheels in racing and I'm sure the spokes would almost go slack on the cobbles. (1 day wheels until the next year).

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cantbeataktm View Post
    I just purchased a set of the Light bicycle 29er AM rims (155 each). I put them on the scale. 380 Grams. They look identical to my Specialized Carbon Roval SL rims. I'm lacing them to Chris King hubs. I'm curious to see how they compare.
    How long did they take to arrive? Are you setting them up tubeless?

  15. #115
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    Would love to see pictures of some of the wheel builds you guys have done.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jwiffle View Post
    Whoa, that's light. And quite a difference from indyfab's 440g.

    Let us know how they do! I'm still waiting on mine.
    No kidding. That is cool.
    I am immune to your disdain.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvi View Post
    Quote "Spoke gauge does affect stiffness because it affects the elasticity of the spokes."
    I understand where you're coming from and appreciate your posts.
    Any idea though why the wheels in Paris Roubaix supposedly are laced at a low tension?
    Probably the hardest stressed wheels in racing and I'm sure the spokes would almost go slack on the cobbles. (1 day wheels until the next year).
    Hmm, never heard of that... but I speculate it might be something like this:

    I always got the impression that wheels with higher spoke tension seems to transmit (or cause) more high-frequency vibrations, giving you the "feeling" that you're hitting objects harder. This can be wrongly interpreted as a stiffer wheel. For the cobblestones of Paris Roubaix, this kind of vibration or resonance is highly unwanted, and as wheel longevity is not that important, they might just lower tension.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cantbeataktm View Post
    I just purchased a set of the Light bicycle 29er AM rims (155 each). I put them on the scale. 380 Grams. They look identical to my Specialized Carbon Roval SL rims. I'm lacing them to Chris King hubs. I'm curious to see how they compare.
    please let us know how these wheels are doing. I have a set of the carbon Rovals on order, scheduled to ship late Feb and am tempted to cancel that order and build up a set of these to try instead.
    Do you know the weight of your wheels?
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  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvi View Post
    I understand where you're coming from and appreciate your posts.
    Any idea though why the wheels in Paris Roubaix supposedly are laced at a low tension?
    I've never heard that either and I don't believe it. There are a lot of things that "supposedly" happen that don't make any sense.
    One explanation could be that teams tend to use higher spoke counts on Roubaix wheels, which drives down the required tension, but that's not what it sounds like you said at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by mvi View Post
    Probably the hardest stressed wheels in racing and I'm sure the spokes would almost go slack on the cobbles. (1 day wheels until the next year).
    lol - they are one day wheels... no next year about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  20. #120
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    Our test set was having a bit of trouble tubeless so I threw a Bontrager Rythm rim strip on the 28 hole rim we have. It fit perfectly. I see no reason the rims would be bombproof tubeless with that strip.
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  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by indyfab25 View Post
    Our test set was having a bit of trouble tubeless so I threw a Bontrager Rythm rim strip on the 28 hole rim we have. It fit perfectly. I see no reason the rims would be bombproof tubeless with that strip.
    Did it burp in the corners? Or lose air?

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by two-one View Post
    Did it burp in the corners? Or lose air?
    No idea. Our "tester" isn't really saying much about it. He seems to not want to share information and perception about them. Kind of defeats the purpose of being a "tester."
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  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by indyfab25 View Post
    No idea. Our "tester" isn't really saying much about it. He seems to not want to share information and perception about them. Kind of defeats the purpose of being a "tester."
    If you can manage to get some details out of your "tester," we'd appreciate it! What tires, what pressures? Sounds like you had it initially sealed? problem was when riding?

    I'm hoping to just be able to use just some of Stan's 25mm yellow tape rather than having to use a strip.

    Thanks!
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  24. #124
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    I volunteer to be a tester. I will talk till you tell me to shut up. email, fax, text messages. Feedback I will give you feedback....

    Quote Originally Posted by indyfab25 View Post
    No idea. Our "tester" isn't really saying much about it. He seems to not want to share information and perception about them. Kind of defeats the purpose of being a "tester."
    Here's to sweat in your eye.

  25. #125
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    I will post pictures once they are built. I got the matte finish. She sent them out on a Friday, and i recieved them the following Wednesday. Full replacement warranty is good for a year.

    Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    I've never heard that either and I don't believe it. There are a lot of things that "supposedly" happen that don't make any sense.
    One explanation could be that teams tend to use higher spoke counts on Roubaix wheels, which drives down the required tension, but that's not what it sounds like you said at all.

    lol - they are one day wheels... no next year about it.
    I've heard of the practice, supposedly softer tension on the wheels makes the ride more comfortable. Brandt explains in his book that soft tensioning the wheels doesn't affect their comfort, just makes them weaker. But as we know, misconceptions die hard, so I wouldn't be surprised if they're were a few mechanics or racers soft-spoking the wheels. ('course, maybe that helps explain some of the carnage?)
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  27. #127
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    Anyone that ordered the "wider" version of the carbon rims from Light-Bicycle have the effective rim diameter dimensions handy?

  28. #128
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    this thread needs some pictures
    The Truth is out there. Here it isThe TRUTH

  29. #129
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    I Agree! ^

  30. #130
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    Yes please ^^^

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jwiffle View Post
    If you can manage to get some details out of your "tester," we'd appreciate it! What tires, what pressures? Sounds like you had it initially sealed? problem was when riding?

    I'm hoping to just be able to use just some of Stan's 25mm yellow tape rather than having to use a strip.

    Thanks!
    Had the Hans Damp PSC blow off the rear rim last night. Taped up and that was it. I installed this Nobby Nic two days ago without sealant with the Bontrager Rhythm symmetrical strip with a Stans valve. This morning I tried to get the tire to lose air. This is with less than 10psi in the tire. No air was lost when I did this.
    I understand the want for a simple tape up. I feel the strip is a bit better, easier, and more bombproof. It essentially turns the rim into a UST rim. I say essentially understanding that it is not a true UST. This test is encouraging. Snap the strip in, throw a tire on, inflate...good to go.
    Our tester "isn't the kind of rider that can tell the difference in ride quality." However, he does ride very heavy, plowing into things seemingly on purpose. Great for reliability testing, but not for ride impressions. We'll have a set soon that I can get out and ride and get back to you guys about spin up, tracking through rock gardens, vertical compliance, etc. By the way, that is old sealant from another setup.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-p10005481.jpg  

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  32. #132
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    @Indyfab: LOL "However, he does ride very heavy, plowing into things seemingly on purpose." That describes my riding!
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  33. #133
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    I'm going to buy a set of the "AM" rims next paycheck. All this reading, 6 PAGES, and there's not really very much info I'm sick of waiting I'd really like a set of ENVEs since they're tied and trued but come on... $300 for a PAIR of carbon rims is cheap enough to give it a go.

  34. #134
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    Last edited by Stugotz; 01-28-2012 at 09:03 AM.

  35. #135
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    I'm going to say what I was thinking (and probably everyone else!)
    I'm tempted to get some capital, buy a bunch. Lace them, put stickers on the them and re-sell them!

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcavy1 View Post
    I'm going to say what I was thinking (and probably everyone else!)
    I'm tempted to get some capital, buy a bunch. Lace them, put stickers on the them and re-sell them!
    It certainly crossed my mind! (They'll even put your logo on them for you!)
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  37. #137
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    What I want to know is how close to say, a Roval are they? I know ENVE, Reynolds, Easton, etc. are made in house and tested like crazy but Specialized obviously outsources theirs. Are these as good as theirs and they just mark them up or are these junk? That's what makes me hesitate. When product "A" is $800 and product "B" is $300, product "B" CAN'T be as nice! Or can it???

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    What I want to know is how close to say, a Roval are they? I know ENVE, Reynolds, Easton, etc. are made in house and tested like crazy but Specialized obviously outsources theirs. Are these as good as theirs and they just mark them up or are these junk? That's what makes me hesitate. When product "A" is $800 and product "B" is $300, product "B" CAN'T be as nice! Or can it???
    I guess that's what we're all wondering. I'm going ahead and taking the chance on them.

    I guess I'm looking at it this way: "When product 'A' is $800 and product 'B' is $300, is product 'A' really THAT much nicer than product 'B'"? I don't expect these to actually be as nice as Enves or even Rovals, but if they're close, and hold up under my riding (which I'm not that hard on wheels, so I expect them to), I'll be happy for the much lower price.
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  39. #139
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    I just ordered a set Last years bonus randomly hit my account at 0200! I'll post pics when I get them.

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    I just ordered a set Last years bonus randomly hit my account at 0200! I'll post pics when I get them.
    Did you order the wide or narrow rims? I'm right on the edge of ordering a set of the wide rims.

  41. #141
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    What hubs you guys throwing on these?

  42. #142
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    duh

    never mind
    Last edited by freebiker; 02-03-2012 at 02:06 AM. Reason: dork

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  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by indyfab25 View Post
    Had the Hans Damp PSC blow off the rear rim last night. Taped up and that was it. I installed this Nobby Nic two days ago without sealant with the Bontrager Rhythm symmetrical strip with a Stans valve. This morning I tried to get the tire to lose air. This is with less than 10psi in the tire. No air was lost when I did this.
    Was this with the narrow or wide rim?

  45. #145
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! Matte finish

    If you order the matt finish most likley the inside of the rim will be unfinished.

    If you plan on running these tubeless with just the rim tape make sure any exposed carbon has been brushed / sprayed with epoxy. Stans etc....will cause the CF to fail.

    I just ordered another pair with matte on the outside and gloss (finished) on the inside

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeZee View Post
    If you order the matt finish most likley the inside of the rim will be unfinished.

    If you plan on running these tubeless with just the rim tape make sure any exposed carbon has been brushed / sprayed with epoxy. Stans etc....will cause the CF to fail.

    I just ordered another pair with matte on the outside and gloss (finished) on the inside
    Never heard about Stan's hurting carbon. I'll send them an email, see if they can gloss the inside since I ordered matte. Thanks for the heads up
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  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeZee View Post
    If you order the matt finish most likley the inside of the rim will be unfinished.

    If you plan on running these tubeless with just the rim tape make sure any exposed carbon has been brushed / sprayed with epoxy. Stans etc....will cause the CF to fail.

    I just ordered another pair with matte on the outside and gloss (finished) on the inside

    Thanks for the tip on the finish options.
    I'm ready to order same, but not sure about spoke count. I'm 210 and with normal wheel I would 32, but is it really important with carbon rim ?

  48. #148
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    I bought the wide, matte, UD finish...

    Going to throw a DT 240s on the rear and American Classic 15mm thru axle front. If you buy light rims you have to go with light hubs Probably Sapim CX Ray spokes...

  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfdog93 View Post
    Thanks for the tip on the finish options.
    I'm ready to order same, but not sure about spoke count. I'm 210 and with normal wheel I would 32, but is it really important with carbon rim ?
    I would still use 32 spokes.

  50. #150
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    Can anyone actually riding these Light-Bicycle Carbon rims comment on the durability? I have read posts from Haven Carbon owners of how bombproof their rims are, bike falls off a car at 70MPH, pinch flatted tubeless, etc. without any rim damage. Any similar stories?

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