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  1. #2801
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    I have broken/tacoed Stan's rims and I am old and not very heavy. These rims are rock solid as far as I am concerned. I have ridden them hard and put them up wet with no issues. I just ordered my 3rd set so I am putting my money where my mouth is. I have 4 sets of STans rims in all the models (ARCH, FLOW, CREST) and before these, Stan's were the best. Stan's are still great, but I am liking these better. Of the Stans rims I likes the CREST the best, but this year alone, I tacoed a Crest and blew the tire completely off a Crest. The Crest are still lighter than these with the rim strip, but these are way lighter than the Arch's and Flow's. I have not managed to break an Arch or Flow but the Arch's aren't wide enough and the Flow's are heavy. The new FlowEx are only about 100 grams heavier, but for me the almost hold the tire too wide for the kind of riding I do. For those that need really wide the FlowEx might still be the answer, but for me, these rims are the best I have found.

    If you want to know how much testing I have done, I just looked at my spreadsheet and I have ridden almost 5000 miles this year and 2500 was single speed and over 1200 of that was full rigid SS. Just over a thousand was road so that leaves 1500 geared MTB split within 5 miles of even between FS and HT. So 4000 miles this year was on Stans or these rims and in that time I had the 2 Stans failures discussed above and so far none for these rims.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  2. #2802
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire_strom View Post
    There is an invoice in my inbox for a set of the wider LB wheels to be built with DT Swiss Super Comps on the d711sb/d712sb. I am only waiting to verify that at least the front hub can be converted to a through axle. A qr15 specifically. There seems to have been a recent change in the hub that allows this but I was wanting to confirm. Anyone have a recent set that can set the record straight?
    Thanks
    Does this mean that I can't order these wheels with 15mm QR Novatec (D711/D712SB) in the front? I've heard a couple bad things about the 8xx Novatecs freewheel failing, so this is bad news if true that the 7xx hubs don't come ready to run 15mm QR....

  3. #2803
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    Can someone also clarify if there is a difference in endcaps for 15mm thru vs. 15mm QR? Or are they the same?

  4. #2804
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigebaker View Post
    Can someone also clarify if there is a difference in endcaps for 15mm thru vs. 15mm QR? Or are they the same?
    They are the same.
    The 15mm QR is just called in the past.

  5. #2805
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    Anyone try mounting Bontrager TLR tires on these rims? Do they mount up easily?

  6. #2806
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShralpSauce View Post
    Anyone try mounting Bontrager TLR tires on these rims? Do they mount up easily?
    It depends on what you have in the rims. With tape only, anything will mount pretty easily. With TLR strips like many people are using (including me), the fit can be tight, but I haven't had any issues mounting a tire yet, including a Bonty TLR tire.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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  7. #2807
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    So Nancy confirmed that there isn't 15mm front option on the front Novatec 711 hub. It looks like the 811/812 hubs are much heavier. I did try to contact Novatec NA via email with no success and Nancy made it sound like Novatec doesnt currently make the 15mm endcap but is planning to sometime in 2013. I need to pull the trigger now, so that won't help me.
    Does anyone have any info on where to get the endcap for the 711 hub or what hubs i cld buy seperately and build up for a similar weight and price as the complete LB wheelset?

  8. #2808
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    The problem with building them up separately for the similar price is that you end up buying the spokes in small quantities and decent ones cost over $1 each by the time you pay shipping (although they would be higher quality spokes). The other problem with keeping it the same price is that most of the hubs that can be converted are higher end hubs and cost more money (although they will generally be lighter). The 3rd problem is that if you are not building the wheels yourself, it probably costs them around $5 per wheel in labor to build in China.
    Personally, I would buy the rims and build what I wanted (although I can build my own) but there is a guy here that has built hundreds of wheels that will do them for $25 each and I can buy the parts myself of through him at a discount from retail.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  9. #2809
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    The problem with building them up separately for the similar price is that you end up buying the spokes in small quantities and decent ones cost over $1 each by the time you pay shipping (although they would be higher quality spokes). The other problem with keeping it the same price is that most of the hubs that can be converted are higher end hubs and cost more money (although they will generally be lighter). The 3rd problem is that if you are not building the wheels yourself, it probably costs them around $5 per wheel in labor to build in China.
    Personally, I would buy the rims and build what I wanted (although I can build my own) but there is a guy here that has built hundreds of wheels that will do them for $25 each and I can buy the parts myself of through him at a discount from retail.
    Dans comp has sapim double butted for about .50/each. They also dont charge extra for the non standard lengths (most spokes only come in odd or even lengths and most places charge to cut to the non standard length).

    I bought the light bicycles AM rims and did my first wheel build maybe two weeks ago. I have about 4 rides on my front wheel and 1 ride on the rear so not enough to tell about durability, but I can definitely feel the difference in climbing and downhill over my WTB frequency i23. The first wheel build took about 6 hours, the second took about 2. I definitely am getting faster. I took them to the LBS to ensure that they were tensioned properly and the LBS said they looked great.

    I bought a used chris king hub for $90, plus $70 for an axle kit to convert to 142X12. The total cost was about $650 ( not including the truing stand, spoke wrenches etc that I had to buy).

    Weight wise I only dropped about a pound from the i23s.

    I used one layer of 1" gorilla tape and mounted a hans dampf 2.35 on the front and a maxxis ardent 2.25 on the back mounted tubeless. I used an air compressor to seal the bead on both of them and used stans (although Im going to switch to orange seal as it is much better than stans in sealing large gashes).

    Since Im relatively new to mtb (about 6 months) I wasnt sure what to expect. However I can definitely feel the difference. There is one particular hill that I bomb down, the bike (tallboy LTC) just totally railed. The i23 were fine, but the new wheels had a new level of confidence and stability. I wouldnt pay $2000 for the improvement, but 650 is fine.

    Climbing is also better. There are a couple of climbs that I sometimes miss, with the new wheels Im not even close to missing them. There is one climb that I have only made once and I did it both times I tried it today.

    Today is the first day that I rode front and back. It is probably my imagination but I did two laps (11 miles/lap) today on one of my normal loops and at the end of the second lap I felt like I could easily do a 3rd. It could just have been one of those good days where everything aligns. Ill report back as I get more ride time.

  10. #2810
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    Quote Originally Posted by poundslly View Post
    yeah, Those rims look awesome. I wish they would work with my I9 hubs.
    They do, same spokes as the Flows.
    I have a 6 Berth Motorhome that I rent out . It is based in Tauranga, New Zealand

  11. #2811
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    Correct. The 711's that can be 15mm are not yet available AFAICT. That is from communicating with nancy at LB and a guy in Taiwan that has a wan store sell novatec hubs and end caps etc.

    I bailed and got a good deal on the alloy Rovals.

    Once the new 711 start shipping these will be very very loud on my radar.


    Quote Originally Posted by craigebaker View Post
    Does this mean that I can't order these wheels with 15mm QR Novatec (D711/D712SB) in the front? I've heard a couple bad things about the 8xx Novatecs freewheel failing, so this is bad news if true that the 7xx hubs don't come ready to run 15mm QR....

  12. #2812
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    I would be very interested in this as well what sources do you use for novatec hubs I'm struggling to find retailers who carry them

  13. #2813
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    Google

    edit: jn35646 gave a (-) rep for this post.
    Last edited by fire_strom; 01-02-2013 at 10:02 AM.

  14. #2814
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    My Light Bicycles 29er UD matte finish rims arrived today and from what I can tell (which isnt much) they seem well constructed.

    I plan to get these built up in the next few weeks and then can compare them to my Enve wheels.

    My question is what is the best tubeless setup to use on these rims? they are the AM tubeless version (BTW)

    Evne tape- I think I would need to get the wider version of the gorilla tape. Is this best for these rims?
    Stans yellow- Light, do they hold well or are the rims too wide for this light tape to work?
    bontrager strips- I believe I would need the Rhythm model of strips. Seem to work well on my RXL rims do they make mounting tires easier or more difficult with the rim profile?

    Any feedback or correction would be helpful.

  15. #2815
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    Quote Originally Posted by simpy16 View Post
    My Light Bicycles 29er UD matte finish rims arrived today and from what I can tell (which isnt much) they seem well constructed.

    I plan to get these built up in the next few weeks and then can compare them to my Enve wheels.

    My question is what is the best tubeless setup to use on these rims? they are the AM tubeless version (BTW)

    Evne tape- I think I would need to get the wider version of the gorilla tape. Is this best for these rims?
    Stans yellow- Light, do they hold well or are the rims too wide for this light tape to work?
    bontrager strips- I believe I would need the Rhythm model of strips. Seem to work well on my RXL rims do they make mounting tires easier or more difficult with the rim profile?

    Any feedback or correction would be helpful.
    im using 1 inch gorilla tape which is working fine.

  16. #2816
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodmojo View Post
    im using 1 inch gorilla tape which is working fine.
    +1
    Small ring in front makes it easier. Small ring in back makes it harder. That blows my mind.

  17. #2817
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    Quote Originally Posted by simpy16 View Post
    My Light Bicycles 29er UD matte finish rims arrived today and from what I can tell (which isnt much) they seem well constructed.

    I plan to get these built up in the next few weeks and then can compare them to my Enve wheels.

    My question is what is the best tubeless setup to use on these rims? they are the AM tubeless version (BTW)

    Evne tape- I think I would need to get the wider version of the gorilla tape. Is this best for these rims?
    Stans yellow- Light, do they hold well or are the rims too wide for this light tape to work?
    bontrager strips- I believe I would need the Rhythm model of strips. Seem to work well on my RXL rims do they make mounting tires easier or more difficult with the rim profile?

    Any feedback or correction would be helpful.
    I also recently got a pair of the LB wider carbon rims in UD/Matte. Built and set them up tubeless last week. I used the bontrager rhythm rim strips due to all the recommendations. The strips fit the rims perfectly, and seem to make them more of a UST setup than tape would. Tires are fairly hard to get on/off with the strips installed, probably more so than if I would've just used tape.

    One 3.5+ hour ride on them and all is good. Using the same hubs/spokes (king/wheelsmith DB14) as my crest/355 wheelset these definitely feel stiffer. Planning to use them as my XC race wheelset for next year. Not super light but hopefully fairly bombproof and stiff.

  18. #2818
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    Oh man, just pulled the trigger on a complete wheelset from Nancy. Wide rims, matte, 12k, and thru axles front and back.

    I guess I'll be keeping this bike for a while. I really wanted to go back to 26in wheels but I tacoed a wheel last week on my Rumblefish and I definitely do not have the funds for a new bike. There was lots of debating on to just rebuild my wheel or upgrade. Finally decided on the upgrade. Hope it was the right choice...

  19. #2819
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    Tell us more...

    Quote Originally Posted by erikrc10 View Post
    Oh man, just pulled the trigger on a complete wheelset from Nancy. Wide rims, matte, 12k, and thru axles front and back.

    I guess I'll be keeping this bike for a while. I really wanted to go back to 26in wheels but I tacoed a wheel last week on my Rumblefish and I definitely do not have the funds for a new bike. There was lots of debating on to just rebuild my wheel or upgrade. Finally decided on the upgrade. Hope it was the right choice...
    I'm considering a Nancy race-day-only wheelset. Now that the new Roval set is available I'm waffling. Do tell....

    1. How was it dealing with them? I've done online chat with their man Brian and his English was perfect.
    2. What were the hub options?
    3. Were you given options for spokes and nipples?
    4. Did they promise a specific weight?
    5. How long until delivery?

    Thanks for your time.
    I dreamed I ate a 10 lb marshmallow. When I awoke, my pillow was gone.

  20. #2820
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikrc10 View Post
    Oh man, just pulled the trigger on a complete wheelset from Nancy. Wide rims, matte, 12k, and thru axles front and back.

    I guess I'll be keeping this bike for a while. I really wanted to go back to 26in wheels but I tacoed a wheel last week on my Rumblefish and I definitely do not have the funds for a new bike. There was lots of debating on to just rebuild my wheel or upgrade. Finally decided on the upgrade. Hope it was the right choice...
    Yeah, dunno what you had before, but I immediately noticed how much stiffer the NancyWide Carbon 29er rims were than my WTB SpeedDisc rims or my DT Swiss X470 rims... and they're 60 grams lighter to boot! They feel way more point and shoot through the rocky and off camber parts of the trail I regularly ride.

    Bonus points for being wider, and allowing a wider tire footprint at lower pressure.

    I think you'll really dig 'em. I would just suggest that you go over them with micrometer eyes when you get first take them out of the box to be sure nothing stands out in the quality control department.

    I'm starting to queue up to get another pair of NancyWide AM29er rims. I just found a smoking deal on a DT Swiss 240s rear hub, get another Circus Monkey Lefty front hub, spokes and nipples, and I'm in.

  21. #2821
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    Nancy's English has been very good, you can tell it is not her native language but everything is clearly communicated. During their business hours her emails are extremely quick (reply within 15-30 mins). I ordered this morning and haven't gotten an email from her yet, just the auto response one saying they received the order. They are on the other side of the world though so it's certainly not during business hours. I expect one from her sometime tonight.

    Their hub options aren't that great, you are pretty much limited to the Novatec offerings but they are suppose to be getting DT hubs in sometime soon. They are currently trying to work out prices with there supplier.

    I honestly didn't put to much thought into spokes or nipples but they do explain why they use what spokes they use and you can get different ones on request and I'm not sure about nipples.

    If you want a custom build I would recommend just buying the rims yourself. If I had more money I would have gotten a set of Hopes or something along that line but these were $666 (I hope that price isn't a sign of anything...) delivered to my door. I was struggling to find a set new flows for much less and I couldn't find a truly bad review about LB so I thought why not.

    The weight is claimed at 1500g +/-15. We will see what they come in at once they get here. My old wheelset (Bontrager Duster) I don't know the weight of but I know it was above 2000g so regardless it will be a big improvement.

    The site claims 10 days to get the wheels built up and complete and then shipping is suppose to take anywhere from 4-7 days. I asked Nancy if that was accurate and she said it was. I will definitely report as to when they actually get here though.


    I'm a pretty light guy, 6ft and weigh probably about 140-145lbs when geared up, so I don't notice flex a whole lot but I definitely ride pretty aggressively. Probably harder the then the Rumblefish was designed for, so we will see how these wheels hold up.

  22. #2822
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    Spoke count?

    From what little I was able to find on the web, the Novatecs are fine. Which spoke count did you opt for?

    Best of luck with your 666 wheelset!
    I dreamed I ate a 10 lb marshmallow. When I awoke, my pillow was gone.

  23. #2823
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    I knew there was something I forgot, I went with the 32 spoke wheels.
    Yeah, from all I could find Novatec hubs seemed to be of good quality, so I'm not too worried.

  24. #2824
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    Any updates on this?

    Quote Originally Posted by fire_strom View Post
    Bad break there. What do you think an arch ex rim might have done? Big dent or roll over?

    I found a supplier that deals with novatec parts. rbopbicycles or something. I think I googled "Novatec end caps". They're in Taiwan but were good with email. Said they didn't think the older versions of the 711sb hub would take the new end caps which they didn't even have yet. I think the new version of the hubs are not yet available. I asked Nancy if she could check on their availability. If I can't get the convertible ones I may punt on the whole carbon thing and get an arch ex set on the 3.30 hubs. I think they'd be about 150g heavier than the LB wider set on 711/712's but $200 less too. I suppose I could just wait a couple months for the winter to start then end and the hubs to be released.
    Has Nancy updated you on availability of the 711 hub with 15mm end caps yet? All the other hubs appear much heavier, so won't work for XC racing. Are the Rotaz hubs a suitable substitute for the Novatec 711/712?

  25. #2825
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigebaker View Post
    Has Nancy updated you on availability of the 711 hub with 15mm end caps yet? All the other hubs appear much heavier, so won't work for XC racing. Are the Rotaz hubs a suitable substitute for the Novatec 711/712?
    The US Novatec site shows the 711 with the end cap adaptors. D711SB (FH) - Novatec Maybe they're on the slow boat to China...wait a minute...now I'm really confused.
    I dreamed I ate a 10 lb marshmallow. When I awoke, my pillow was gone.

  26. #2826
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    I have broken/tacoed Stan's rims and I am old and not very heavy. These rims are rock solid as far as I am concerned. I have ridden them hard and put them up wet with no issues. I just ordered my 3rd set so I am putting my money where my mouth is. I have 4 sets of STans rims in all the models (ARCH, FLOW, CREST) and before these, Stan's were the best. Stan's are still great, but I am liking these better.
    If you read this. I am 200lbs, will almost only ride on a paved trail to work. I just bought a new set of 29er Crests, will I break them? I could not pass up the set, new for $349 at an LBS.

  27. #2827
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe63 View Post
    If you read this. I am 200lbs, will almost only ride on a paved trail to work. I just bought a new set of 29er Crests, will I break them? I could not pass up the set, new for $349 at an LBS.
    Riding paved paths on a commute? Not likely.

  28. #2828
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe63 View Post
    If you read this. I am 200lbs, will almost only ride on a paved trail to work. I just bought a new set of 29er Crests, will I break them? I could not pass up the set, new for $349 at an LBS.
    Or it might be better to say, EXTREMELY unlikely

  29. #2829
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    I weigh 170 and am 58 and have tacoed a Crest and blew a tire completely off a Crest. That said, I was in the dirt. You can probably ride 100 years and unless you hit a curb hard, you will have no issues.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  30. #2830
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe63 View Post
    If you read this. I am 200lbs, will almost only ride on a paved trail to work. I just bought a new set of 29er Crests, will I break them? I could not pass up the set, new for $349 at an LBS.
    I'm at least 205 geared up--ride roots, rocks, and some small jumps--and haven't broken my Crests yet. That said, I've got a pair of wider LB rims ordered already.

  31. #2831
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    PS You will love these assuming descent hubs. They actually accelerate faster than the LB wheels since they are lighter. As long as you are not bombing curbs they will be fine and actually ride better. Where the Crests fall down is in steering precision and overall durability/strength. I actually have Flows on my commuter since I do bomb curbs.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  32. #2832
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    OOXJCO How fast were you going in your avatar picture?
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  33. #2833
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    Quote Originally Posted by simpy16 View Post
    My Light Bicycles 29er UD matte finish rims arrived today and from what I can tell (which isnt much) they seem well constructed.

    I plan to get these built up in the next few weeks and then can compare them to my Enve wheels.

    My question is what is the best tubeless setup to use on these rims? they are the AM tubeless version (BTW)

    Evne tape- I think I would need to get the wider version of the gorilla tape. Is this best for these rims?
    Stans yellow- Light, do they hold well or are the rims too wide for this light tape to work?
    bontrager strips- I believe I would need the Rhythm model of strips. Seem to work well on my RXL rims do they make mounting tires easier or more difficult with the rim profile?

    Any feedback or correction would be helpful.
    I'm using Stan's yellow tape. No problems at all.

    Edit: Eh...sorry for dropping this response in here kind of late...didn't realize the discussion had kind of moved on....duh...
    Last edited by JudgeMorris; 12-12-2012 at 09:58 PM.

  34. #2834
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    OOXJCO How fast were you going in your avatar picture?
    Haha - Ariel Atom fast! Seen the video?

  35. #2835
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodmojo View Post

    Weight wise I only dropped about a pound from the i23s.
    This was just what i was looking for. I'm also riding a tallboy LTC with i23's.

  36. #2836
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    I haven't seen the video but I have been up to 165 (180 indicated) on a ZX11.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  37. #2837
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    I haven't seen the video but I have been up to 165 (180 indicated) on a ZX11.
    Awesome! I had a GSXR-1000 I got up to 186, which is also the speed Suzuki claimed it was governed at. I don't know what the 'actual' speed was, seems like they all read high, especially at high speed.

  38. #2838
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  39. #2839
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    I'm ready to lace up my Wider 29r (reinforced) rims. Need spokes.

    I'm using Chris King ISO hubs. SD15 front and 142 thru axel rear.

    I'm coming up with spoke lengths of 292/293 front and 293/292 rear. Anyone else lace up the same rim/hub combo? What spoke lengths worked out for you?

    Thanks!

  40. #2840
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    User error

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  42. #2842
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    Same setup I used 292 all around

    Mad lacing super easy.

    Quote Originally Posted by reamer41 View Post
    I'm ready to lace up my Wider 29r (reinforced) rims. Need spokes.

    I'm using Chris King ISO hubs. SD15 front and 142 thru axel rear.

    I'm coming up with spoke lengths of 292/293 front and 293/292 rear. Anyone else lace up the same rim/hub combo? What spoke lengths worked out for you?

    Thanks!

  43. #2843
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbwallace View Post
    Mad lacing super easy.
    Cool!
    I was thinking that would likely work.
    12mm nips?

  44. #2844
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    Yep 12mm brass nipples

    I used Sapim double butted spokes and sapim polyax nipples. I usually get my stuff from bikehubstore.com. Brandon is super nice and the parts get here quickly. His prices are much better than anywhere else.



    Quote Originally Posted by reamer41 View Post
    Cool!
    I was thinking that would likely work.
    12mm nips?

  45. #2845
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    Quote Originally Posted by reamer41 View Post
    292/293 front and 293/292 rear
    That's what I used for the same setup.
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  46. #2846
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    You may want to consider going 2 cross, it makes for a better nipple angle towards the hub. The rim is so thick, and the hole is not drilled at an angle so the nipple can't angle toward the hub very well.

    As for spoke triangulation, you can just about throw previous wheel building practices out the window with carbon rims. They are so much stiffer that lighter, fewer spokes and fewer crosses works great and may actually build some flex back into the wheel.

    I went 2 cross and used 282 mm spokes all around on Kings.
    Santa Cruz Bronson 2 27.5/Rockshox Pike/Sram XX1
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  47. #2847
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    One more Q: When lacing aluminum rims I have always lubed the nipple seats. Have you all been doing so with carbon rims, and if so, what lube?

  48. #2848
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    Be prepared for dozens of different answers for that. Just use what you've been always using. Being carbon shouldn't make a diff, assuming other things are equal. If you're planning on going high tension go for something more oily and slicker, espec if using a 3x lacing pattern. Anything works really. Hell, I have a 5 QT jug of motor oil with a little oil left that I'd use--can't wait to hear what the bike purists say about that.

    I personally think the locking stuff is for the builds where there isn't very much resistance to nipple turning to tighten it, and therefore less resistance to loosen it. Maybe a "low" tension builds where the spoke enters the nipple in a straight manner, such as in a radial/2x build and/or with rims with angled spoke drilling. Or low spoke count wheels, where each loose spoke would be felt more and you would get more peace of mind with the extra security. With spokes tensioned up to 120kgf, I'd imagine the tension and how the nipples aren't perfectly aligned with the spoke would be more than enough and you'd only need the lubrication for easier build-up as it might get hard to turn once without winding up the spokes at higher tension.

  49. #2849
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    No. Run the nipples dry.

    I imagine someone, somewhere would have some good advice on a grease that would be good to use on carbon, but the consensus is, there's no squeeking, digging in, or corrosion between the materials so no lubrication is necessary. Some greases could actually be harmful on the carbon. I haven't seen any wheelsets from other mfg's using any lube on rims or any other carbon part for that matter including headsets, seatposts etc.

    I have experienced the nipple getting really tight giving me a false hand tension reading, but i think it has just been the nipple getting side loaded in the deep hole of the rim as i explained in my previous posts.

    I've taken a carbon Enve spoke out that was broken and the nipple had some rounding at the base where it contacts the rim, but no significant wear on the rim bed. I'd say less rounding than a typical alloy rim/nipple interface has.
    Santa Cruz Bronson 2 27.5/Rockshox Pike/Sram XX1
    Salsa Mukluk/Rockshox Bluto/Sram X1

  50. #2850
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    Be prepared for dozens of different answers for that. Just use what you've been always using. Being carbon shouldn't make a diff, assuming other things are equal. If you're planning on going high tension go for something more oily and slicker, espec if using a 3x lacing pattern. Anything works really. Hell, I have a 5 QT jug of motor oil with a little oil left that I'd use--can't wait to hear what the bike purists say about that.
    Ha! I bet. I'll just go with a dab of synth motor oil then. Thanks.

  51. #2851
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    spoke washers

    It will be my first set of carbon rims that i am going to build on my own. Therefore i wonder wether it might be a good idea to use these special nipple washers on the nipple/rim interface to distribute the tension to a bigger surfarce than compared to just the nipple head.
    Any of the experienced wheelbuilders here has something to say about this idea.
    Your feedback is highly appreciated here
    THX

  52. #2852
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    Never expected to hear someone say run the nipples dry, but then again, he did say lace it 2x to get a better spoke-nipple angle, so I can see it from his perspective. I was taught that anything was better than nothing. Talking to various bike shop guys, it seems like many have their own secret concoction, but talking to veterans, they say they tried everything and they all work sufficiently and the whole point of it was to make bringing them up to tension easier, and not keeping the spokes tensioned longer (which was kept tensioned due to high even tension, and stress relieving without wind-up--a quality wheel build).

    I thought the grease on carbon thing was a speculative myth, due to how mfgs recommended not greasing seatposts. People believed that grease could permeate the epoxy resin and make the fibrous layers swell (maybe causing the carbon post get stuck in the frame), but I believe an Easton rep in an interview said that wasn't really possible and that it's more because grease would make clamping the seatpost take more torque and the carbon post would compress from torque, requiring even more torque to reduce slipping down, and more torque leads to failure.

  53. #2853
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rune196 View Post
    It will be my first set of carbon rims that i am going to build on my own. Therefore i wonder wether it might be a good idea to use these special nipple washers on the nipple/rim interface to distribute the tension to a bigger surfarce than compared to just the nipple head.
    Any of the experienced wheelbuilders here has something to say about this idea.
    Your feedback is highly appreciated here
    THX
    I looked into this when I picked up my wheel building bits...even got me a bag of the Fulcrum elliptical nipple washers. The short of it...they don't fit/can't get them thru the tire bed/inner rim wall. I'd totally eat the tiny bit of weight gain to be able to put in nipple washers, alas I just went nekkid
    Naysayers never apologize. Critics go to their grave thinking everyone else is wrong.
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  54. #2854
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    Oh wait, you said lubing the nipple seats. Hah... I've never done that. Disregard what I said. That was for spoke prep.

    The internal Pillar nipples on the Enve rims are already rounded on at least one end I thought, unless you mean something else. I replaced a spoke on mine and I didn;t even bother to look at the condition of the carbon, but I can see how one might be worried, as the head of the nipple rests and turns right on the carbon, with the spoke pulling on it. I just see it as being like a very dull drill bit with low RPM, but a lot of weight bearing down on it. Kind of reminds me of that show that tried to explain the secrets of Shaolin monks and their Qi, and how they can harden their body to resist an power drill from piercing their skin and skull/neck (youtebe).

  55. #2855
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    I weigh 160 lbs. ride around Nashville and Chattanooga. What are the pros and cons of 28 spoke vs. 32 spoke? Approximately, what would be the difference in wheel weight? (I have some 32 hole CK hubs.) I ride XC, with some rocky stuff but no big drops. considering LB wide rims. What spokes should I consider for a good light build? Comments on 2x vs 3x build?
    Kindacreeky,
    Tennessee Singletrac Sculpter

  56. #2856
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    kindacreeky: at your weight you could go 28 or 32. you would only save the weight of 4 spokes and nipples and your wheels would be a little more aero on the fast downhills. But 32 would be stronger, and have better resale value. If you already have some 32 hubs then I would definitely go 32.

    As far as spokes, if you want light and relatively strong, I like DT Revolution.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  57. #2857
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    Just throwing it out there,

    I rode about 5km of flowy single track before I noticed my rear wheels spokes loosened to less than finger tight on about 15 spokes and the wheel survived and did not even go out of true (200lbs + pushing hard on climbs).

    I then rode about 4km of double track back to the truck where I had a spoke wrench, tightened the spokes and did another 20k - I don't think my old Crest wheels would of made it through that ordeal alive.

  58. #2858
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    Graphite should work for lubricating the nipple/eyelet interface.

  59. #2859
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    Belgian beer and Scotch whisky.

  60. #2860
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    Quote Originally Posted by reamer41 View Post
    One more Q: When lacing aluminum rims I have always lubed the nipple seats. Have you all been doing so with carbon rims, and if so, what lube?
    Yes. Use whatever you would for aluminum. I use Phil Wood grease because a q-tip fits perfectly in the end of the tube.
    Grease causing carbon harm and carbon not being a factor in corrosion is all misinformation.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  61. #2861
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    Quote Originally Posted by krispy@go-ride.com View Post
    You may want to consider going 2 cross, it makes for a better nipple angle towards the hub. The rim is so thick, and the hole is not drilled at an angle so the nipple can't angle toward the hub very well.

    As for spoke triangulation, you can just about throw previous wheel building practices out the window with carbon rims. They are so much stiffer that lighter, fewer spokes and fewer crosses works great and may actually build some flex back into the wheel.

    I went 2 cross and used 282 mm spokes all around on Kings.
    Would you recommend 3 cross on the brake side of the rear, or 2 cross everywhere? I ordered a set of the LB rims and now am planning the build. Will have shop build up the wheels. I am 160 lbs, fairly smooth riding style.
    Also, what tension should I have the shop shoot for when they build? I will use 32 hole CK hubs.
    Kindacreeky,
    Tennessee Singletrac Sculpter

  62. #2862
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Yes. Use whatever you would for aluminum. I use Phil Wood grease because a q-tip fits perfectly in the end of the tube.
    Grease causing carbon harm and carbon not being a factor in corrosion is all misinformation.
    Used assembly lube on rim bed and threads...that red molasses thick super slick stuff you find in auto parts stores...w/o any ill effects.
    Naysayers never apologize. Critics go to their grave thinking everyone else is wrong.
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  63. #2863
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    Napa anti seize lubricant #765-1674
    NAPA PERMATEX ANTI-SEIZE LUBRICANT

  64. #2864
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    Has anyone had burps with the wide rims using gorilla tape? I read through a lot of pages, but not all, and it doesn't seem that anyone has had any issues at all that I have seen. I have some Bontrager strips on another wheelset that I could move over, but if the Gorilla tape works as well I will just go that route and keep the strips on the back up set.

  65. #2865
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haymarket View Post
    Has anyone had burps with the wide rims using gorilla tape? I read through a lot of pages, but not all, and it doesn't seem that anyone has had any issues at all that I have seen. I have some Bontrager strips on another wheelset that I could move over, but if the Gorilla tape works as well I will just go that route and keep the strips on the back up set.
    Have never burped with gorilla tape and rocket ron / racing ralph / bontrager 29-0, even at 18-20 psi and 200lbs.

  66. #2866
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haymarket View Post
    Has anyone had burps with the wide rims using gorilla tape? I read through a lot of pages, but not all, and it doesn't seem that anyone has had any issues at all that I have seen. I have some Bontrager strips on another wheelset that I could move over, but if the Gorilla tape works as well I will just go that route and keep the strips on the back up set.
    I burped and couldnt get a reseal with gorilla tape and a maxxis ardent 2.25. Im pretty new so I wasnt sure if I could get a reseal. I pumped it up but still had a leak but didnt pump to full pressure. I put a tube in and the bead reseated. I think if I had pumped to full pressure it might have been ok.

  67. #2867
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    Ok guys... 115 pages to go through, but just need to ask a quick question.

    I've gone to www.light-bicycles.com... I can't find anywhere where it tells me a price, or how to order.

    Can anyone link me?

    Thanks!

  68. #2868
    Greystoke
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    five5,Click on buy & prices come up

  69. #2869
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    Quote Originally Posted by five5 View Post
    Ok guys... 115 pages to go through, but just need to ask a quick question.

    I've gone to www.light-bicycles.com... I can't find anywhere where it tells me a price, or how to order.

    Can anyone link me?

    Thanks!
    I can only assume you're not looking at the actual product page. Click on the box/arrow in the middle of the product image. The price is the very first thing listed.

  70. #2870
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    Got it, my phone wasn't giving me the icons I was looking for... Damn cheap!!

    Thanks!

  71. #2871
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    Well I know you don't believe me, but the video I watched was from a longer shot and it might have been longer than 4 years ago. June of 08 was a little over 4 years and they have had video's way longer than that.
    You are right. I followed the instructions to a T on my first set and overlapped the valve hole.

    Either that, or we are nuts.
    Raised in a Chicken-Coop by Chickens

  72. #2872
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    Quote Originally Posted by five5 View Post
    Ok guys... 115 pages to go through, but just need to ask a quick question.

    I've gone to www.light-bicycles.com... I can't find anywhere where it tells me a price, or how to order.

    Can anyone link me?

    Thanks!
    The big blue "Buy It Now" button was a dead give away for me as far as how to order. The "Price" entry (first) in the info table gave me a hint as to what they charge.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  73. #2873
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    Hong-Fu sports has good carbon wheels

  74. #2874
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    Has anyone successfully run these rims w/ the I9 spokes yet? ERD is the same as the STans Flows that are currently on my I9 wheels....thinking of swapping them out for the carbon AM/wider/heavier rims.


  75. #2875
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    What's good about them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Constantinos View Post
    Hong-Fu sports has good carbon wheels
    Why do you say they're good? There's no info on their website except a few pictures. Did you buy a pair?
    I dreamed I ate a 10 lb marshmallow. When I awoke, my pillow was gone.

  76. #2876
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    The big blue "Buy It Now" button was a dead give away for me as far as how to order. The "Price" entry (first) in the info table gave me a hint as to what they charge.
    Wow, you're the man! You are so much better than me. Thanks so much for your guidance.

    I apologize for my stupidity, please forgive me.. my phone didn't show the link to where the pricing, and purchasing was, I'm terribly sorry I forced you to reply because I'm so dumb.

    Thanks for making your superiority clear.
    Last edited by five5; 12-25-2012 at 11:34 AM.

  77. #2877
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    Has anyone successfully run these rims w/ the I9 spokes yet? ERD is the same as the STans Flows that are currently on my I9 wheels....thinking of swapping them out for the carbon AM/wider/heavier rims.
    Can't help about I9 , but go two cross as Krispy has said much better spoke/nipple alignment . I went three but wish I had the shorter spokes, next time two cross for me.
    Enve recommend two cross for the same reasons.

  78. #2878
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    Quote Originally Posted by five5 View Post
    Wow, thanks for being a ****** bag! If you could read any further down the page, you see that I was using my phone, and the link to that page wasn't visible to me.

    Congrats, I knew there'd be one ******* reply, you're the man!
    Classy.
    Sorry to cause so much butt hurt. Didn't realize it was going to affect you so much.
    It's the Internet, lighten up!
    You didn't say anything about your phone. My phone showed it... how was I poda know?
    Merry Christmas. (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-imageuploadedbytapatalk1356485679.001570.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  79. #2879
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    I weigh 190-195 lbs depending on the the time of year and ride aggressive XC and trail on a full suspension bike with lots of rock gardens on occasion, and race occasionally. What do you guys with experience with these rims think...should I order the regular "wider" rims, or do the "wider and stronger" ones make more sense? Thanks.

  80. #2880
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    My weight can vary anywhere from 195-205 geared up, I ride aggressive XC on FS, and I ended up ordering the regular "wider" 29er rims with a requested weight of 380-390g. I got the rims last week, and they're both right around 380g. I haven't had them built up yet, but I'm hoping they do the job.

  81. #2881
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haymarket View Post
    I weigh 190-195 lbs depending on the the time of year and ride aggressive XC and trail on a full suspension bike with lots of rock gardens on occasion, and race occasionally. What do you guys with experience with these rims think...should I order the regular "wider" rims, or do the "wider and stronger" ones make more sense? Thanks.
    I'm 195lbs, have ridden DH trails on them, hit 10 foot DH jumps, raced on them, rock gardens etc. - also rode 5km with about 15 spokes so loose they had 0 tension at race pace and they did not even go out of true, my old Crests would of not done well with that. I have about 600km on them so far.

    Here's a vid of me riding them rigid; I have a broken arm in this video so nothing too crazy


  82. #2882
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    Quote Originally Posted by broadwayline View Post
    I'm 195lbs, have ridden DH trails on them, hit 10 foot DH jumps, raced on them, rock gardens etc. - also rode 5km with about 15 spokes so loose they had 0 tension at race pace and they did not even go out of true, my old Crests would of not done well with that. I have about 600km on them so far.

    Here's a vid of me riding them rigid; I have a broken arm in this video so nothing too crazy

    Very cool video.............

    I love my rigid

  83. #2883
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    How much psi are you running up front with the rigid setup?

  84. #2884
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Classy.
    Sorry to cause so much butt hurt. Didn't realize it was going to affect you so much.
    It's the Internet, lighten up!
    You didn't say anything about your phone. My phone showed it... how was I poda know?
    Merry Christmas. Click image for larger version. 

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    Well, in his defense, you do have a tendency to jump on folks and be snarky.

    I'm sure you're a fine and decent guy, but that 'giving people the business' stuff doesn't always translate well through the interweb toobz...

    Just sayin'...

    and this ain't the first time you jumped on somebody, administered a mild bishslap and pis sed somebody off. I'm sure it won't be the last.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Used assembly lube on rim bed and threads...that red molasses thick super slick stuff you find in auto parts stores...w/o any ill effects.
    I'm still unclear on why anybody would want to lube up the nipple seat. Seems to me that is a recipe for loose spokes down the road. If you're tightening nipples up so you can't turn them anymore and need lube to make them even tighter, you're doing something drastically wrong. On any alu rim, you might see some minor set bowing around the nipple or surface discoloration or cracks, but on a carbon rim you can actually crack it down the middle and ruin the rim.

    I use a bit of anti-seize on the threads, but even that isn't necessary. I just had one bad experience with seized nipples, and wanted a bit of protection from that.

    BTW, I'm 210 pounds these days, and rarely have to true rims... even light XC ones. My wheels tend to be pretty dang 'set-and-forget'.
    Last edited by pimpbot; 12-26-2012 at 07:22 PM.

  85. #2885
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    Well, in his defense, you do have a tendency to jump on folks and be snarky.

    I'm sure you're a fine and decent guy, but that 'giving people the business' stuff doesn't always translate well through the interweb toobz...

    Just sayin'...

    and this ain't the first time you jumped on somebody, administered a mild bishslap and pis sed somebody off. I'm sure it won't be the last. '.
    PM sent
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  86. #2886
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanhugh View Post
    How much psi are you running up front with the rigid setup?
    About 20-22 front and 24-25 rear on a Rocket Ron / Racing Ralph

  87. #2887
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    Clincher means I can use UST tires correct?
    (Other than buying factory wheels I'm new at this)

  88. #2888
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegard View Post
    Clincher means I can use UST tires correct?
    (Other than buying factory wheels I'm new at this)
    Bicycle tire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    It doesn't necessarily mean UST. It just means it's not tubular, where the tire is glued to the rim.

  89. #2889
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    Wiki to the rescue, thanks

    I'm curious about getting a set of these as opposed to a set of crests, tough decision.
    I have a set of P321 hubs, but haven't nailed down my rim selection.

  90. #2890
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    I had crests before. No contest the carbons every time even if one breaks I would just replace with another carbon. They are so much better, very stiff so track brilliantly, build a more even tensioned wheel so will be much stronger as well.

  91. #2891
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    I'm still unclear on why anybody would want to lube up the nipple seat. Seems to me that is a recipe for loose spokes down the road. If you're tightening nipples up so you can't turn them anymore and need lube to make them even tighter, you're doing something drastically wrong..
    I think that lube or grease is more for stopping the carbon from getting chewed & any loosening isn't really an issue due to the extra tension you can dial in on these rims.
    I prefer to lube as I like the nipples to all turn with the same force, if they aren't then something is amiss.
    As someone who builds a lot more wheels than me said ;
    " If you can build your own wheels don't bother with even spoke prep, use anti seize of some sort. If you build a wheel for someone who has no idea & will never check spoke tension use spoke prep"
    To each their own, every wheel builder will have their own way.

    Hope I haven't offended you

  92. #2892
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    I'm still unclear on why anybody would want to lube up the nipple seat. Seems to me that is a recipe for loose spokes down the road. If you're tightening nipples up so you can't turn them anymore and need lube to make them even tighter, you're doing something drastically wrong. On any alu rim, you might see some minor set bowing around the nipple or surface discoloration or cracks, but on a carbon rim you can actually crack it down the middle and ruin the rim.

    I use a bit of anti-seize on the threads, but even that isn't necessary. I just had one bad experience with seized nipples, and wanted a bit of protection from that.
    There's galvanic corrosion (your seized nipple...notice that white powdery stuff around the nipple/spoke/rim eyelets?) which a coat of goo can help prevent, and then there is galling during the tension process, especially pronounced during the tension process of non-eyelet'd rims but can also happen when using aluminum nipples...anyway.

    Specifically w/ these carbon rims, I experienced a lot more difficulties in turning (aluminum) nipples once I started to approach 100kgf. My LB Wider AM wheels are tensioned to around 95 to 100kgf, and not the 105 to 110 some are reporting on their builds. From all reports, it's the long part of the nipple on the drill hole's wall, and not so much the nipple seat, and this is w/ that assembly lube. BTW, I was also using stuff like Tri-Flo and that Pedro SynLube chain lube and even grease, and I've yet to have a single wheel de-tension itself once I unwind the spokes/nipples by side loading the wheel during the build process. I primarily build for myself, but have also built for some friends. Using this method, I've had feedback that they've basically stopped truing wheels once I built them a set...and this came from really aggressive AM/Trail type riders (w/ aluminum rims). So yeah, the idea that lube will facilitate a wheel to loose tension from riding...I'd call that an ol' wife's tale (provided you unwind the spokes during build).
    Naysayers never apologize. Critics go to their grave thinking everyone else is wrong.
    ╭∩╮( º.º )╭∩╮

  93. #2893
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    I recently got a PM from Appendage asking about my wheels and I figured I would just post it here instead, thought other people might be interested as well.

    Unfortunately there has been several delays so I have not received the wheels yet. I ordered the wheels originally on Dec 12th. I emailed them after about a week asking how close they were to shipping and I was told they should be shipped in 3-4 days. I sent Brian another email after 4 days asking if they were shipping that day and I got a reply saying that it would be another 3-4 days due to the bead of one of the wheels being sanded to far. I told Brian that was fine, I would much rather wait a few extra days and get a defective free wheelset. So those 3-4 days were up night before last and sent another email asking when they would ship. Brian told me that to get the wheels in the weave I wanted (12k) that it would probably be next week sometime before they shipped but that they had a set in UD they could build for me if I wanted. I got that email this morning and replied as soon as I got it saying that would be fine, I personally don't really care what they look like. I haven't gotten a reply but I will let you guys know when I get more info.
    Hopefully they show up sooner than later... I'm starting to get antsy with no bike (tacoed front wheel), it's been almost a month since I've ridden now.

  94. #2894
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    I think Nancy and Brian tend to over promise and under deliver when it comes to when your stuff will be shipping out. Could it be a cultural thing?

    I was anxious to get my rims, now, months later, I still haven't laced 'me up.
    --Reamer

  95. #2895
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    Has anyone experience with yoeleobike of the 30mm wide 27.5" rims?

  96. #2896
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    Quote Originally Posted by reamer41 View Post
    I think Nancy and Brian tend to over promise and under deliver when it comes to when your stuff will be shipping out. Could it be a cultural thing?

    I was anxious to get my rims, now, months later, I still haven't laced 'me up.
    When you say you haven't laced them up yet do you mean you just have gotten around to doing it yet or that they haven't shipped yet? Because that second option might be a bit of a problem... I cannot and will not wait months for these.

  97. #2897
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    Quote Originally Posted by reamer41 View Post
    I think Nancy and Brian tend to over promise and under deliver when it comes to when your stuff will be shipping out. Could it be a cultural thing?

    I was anxious to get my rims, now, months later, I still haven't laced 'me up.
    Nancy quoted me 3 weeks to make and 4 business days to arrive once shipped. It only took 2 weeks to get shipping confirmation, and they showed up in 4 days. So far I'm pretty impressed with their communication. I'm hoping I won't have to contact them for any warranty issues once I get them built.

  98. #2898
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    Has anyone successfully run these rims w/ the I9 spokes yet? ERD is the same as the STans Flows that are currently on my I9 wheels....thinking of swapping them out for the carbon AM/wider/heavier rims.
    There is someone that posted in this thread a set of I9 wheels (with their proprietary spokes) built up using the LB rims. I9 gave me a quote of 1000 for them to lace up LB rims that I provided.

  99. #2899
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    Back to LB Novatec hubs:

    I had been emailing Nancy about a set of wheels and was very close to pulling the trigger but ended up scoring a screaming fleaBay deal on a set of Rovals. The only thing that held me back was the hub convertibility of the 711/712 series hubs. Well here is the email I got the other day:

    Hello Scott,

    Sorry for the late reply.
    The agent here says current D711 is ok to be used end cap(convert kit).
    But i can send you the pictures of D711/D712 hubs, maybe you can check with some bicycle shop to double check if it is ok to use convert kit.

    Thanks,
    Nancy

    So not sure if that is definitive but there it is.

    And the hub end cap source I was in contact is:
    www.bdopcycling.com/Novatec-Home.asp

    I think the Rovals will be great but they'll never be carbon.

    -G

  100. #2900
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonicks View Post
    There is someone that posted in this thread a set of I9 wheels (with their proprietary spokes) built up using the LB rims. I9 gave me a quote of 1000 for them to lace up LB rims that I provided.
    Cool...this sounds like an uber stiff wheel build!


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