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  1. #3076
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonicks View Post
    For those wondering the current wait time from Light Bicycle, I ordered a set of Wide UD Matte rims from them on December 20th. Brian confirmed my address the same day and said they'd have to produce the rims in 7-10 day times. He informed me that the shipping was 4-5 days. They ended up shipping on January 2nd, and I received 5 days later in PA. Overall happy with the communication and delivery of the rims.

    I had them built up with Sapim spokes, aluminum nips, and nipple washers. The wheel builder (Luke Shirk, from Shirks Bikes) recommended washers on the carbon rims. I swapped out the rims from my Tallboy LTc, so using DT350 rear hub and WTB front. I sealed them with one inch Gorilla tape. The Maxxis Ardent (non tubeless style) seated quickly with compressor. Looking forward to maiden voyage tomorrow at French Creek.
    I ordered the same in 3K on the 20th and they haven't shipped yet! Communication has been good though.

  2. #3077
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    I am just pointing this out to people that are asking about it.
    You are speaking in specific terms like you understand what you are talking about when it doesn't seem like you do. What is someone supposed to do with "two orders of magnitude?" It's not helpful or even informative, since it is ultimately just your opinions and not based in understanding of the material.
    Like the fact that you "estimate" that 3x wheels are stiffer than radial.

    Show me pictures of the carbon-aluminum carnage.
    Last edited by meltingfeather; 01-12-2013 at 08:58 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  3. #3078
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    ktm520: I know it is not a "Boeing article" the blue section about Boeing was the pertinent part.

    The reason carbon would be worse than aluminum is because carbon is a much stronger cathode.

    Well none of my carbon wheels are 5 years old so I have no pictures for you. If you choose not to believe in galvanic corrosion that is your choice. Some people don't believe the earth is getting warmer either and that is their choice.

    In the original post that started this debate #3061 the poster asked if there was a potential problem with aluminum nipples corroding because of contact with carbon rims. Based on the writings of the aircraft industry and the boat building industry there are valid concerns. I don't have to spend my time finding pictures of failures. I am confident enough to build with aluminum nipples and know that if they fail I can easily fix the problem, but the overall issue is valid.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  4. #3079
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    If you choose not to believe in galvanic corrosion that is your choice.
    The question is not whether anyone "believes in" a well documented chemical process, but whether that process actually presents any sort of problem that requires a specific course of action (e.g., using brass nipples).
    If the issue is "valid," why are aluminum interfaces with carbon stems, seatposts, frames, forks, cranks, handlebars, bottle cages, etc. not falling apart? I recently rebuilt an older (>5 years) Powertap into a new wheel for a customer. Carbon-aluminum hub shell. Nada. I was at a buddy's house tonight who still rides a ~'92 Spesh Epic road bike with carbon tubes and aluminum lugs. How is it possible?!?
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  5. #3080
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    No the question was (see original post #3061) whether this a potential problem. I don't know the specifics of your friend's situation. Does he live in the snow belt, does he ride in the rain, etc. The answer to the original question is not "let's stick our head in the sand since I have never seen it, show me that it has ever happened" but that the potential exists.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  6. #3081
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    Engineers figured out how to use carbon and aluminum together well before carbon was used in bikes.

    In the early 1970’s, Lockheed was developing an upper stage cone
    for the C4 Trident using composite fiber cloth and aluminum
    honeycomb. The Navy required a 30 day salt spray test. Upon
    retrieval from the test chamber, nearly all the aluminum honeycomb
    was gone. This news spread quickly throughout the composites
    industry, and full recognition is made that a dielectric barrier is
    required between the composite laminate and mating metal structure.
    The generally accepted practice is to use a layer of fiberglass in the
    layup. Additional common methods include a Titanium shim, an
    adhesive layer, and non-metallic high temperature primers.
    1
    “Environmental Effect on Epoxy Matrix Composites”, G. S. Springer, ASTM STP 674, 1978, pp 291-
    312.
    2
    “Galvanic Corrosion between Non-Metallic Composites and Metals”, F. Bellucci, Corrosion, Vol

  7. #3082
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    I think folks forget....

    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    The question is not whether anyone "believes in" a well documented chemical process, but whether that process actually presents any sort of problem that requires a specific course of action (e.g., using brass nipples).
    If the issue is "valid," why are aluminum interfaces with carbon stems, seatposts, frames, forks, cranks, handlebars, bottle cages, etc. not falling apart? I recently rebuilt an older (>5 years) Powertap into a new wheel for a customer. Carbon-aluminum hub shell. Nada. I was at a buddy's house tonight who still rides a ~'92 Spesh Epic road bike with carbon tubes and aluminum lugs. How is it possible?!?
    ... that when you pick up your carbon fiber whatever part, you're not touching carbon. You're touching the epoxy outer layer.

    I guess the concern (and only a concern, more of an irrational worry) is that the spoke holes on these rims are drilled (not formed) in the carbon, and likely not sealed. Maybe they are worried about the carbon fiber little hairs touching the alu or nickel plated brass nipples, and causing the corrosion.

    But who cares?

    Geez, folks! These are $160 rims, not $1000 rims. Thank your lucky stars that such awesome technology with huge real-world benefit is within reach of those who don't light their cuban cigars with $100 bills. If you have to change out nipples, or maybe even spokes in 3-5 years, what's the big deal? What, you're complaining about ruining $5 worth of nipples, and an hour of shop time to refresh your wheels every 5 years? For serious?

    I mean, I've had loads of alu nipple failures over the years, but I figure that was due to my lack of pro-level wheel building skills (I do just about all of my own wheels), my sloppy riding, and my 210 pound ass. So, I gave up on saving the extra 10 grams per wheel and went back to brass. My NancyLightWide carbon wheels are still 70 grams lighter than I was running before, stiffer, and stronger. I'm not complaining one bit. When I build wheels, I put some TiPrep anti-seize on the threads so they won't get stuck, not that I had issues with stuck nipples anyway... but I think it makes the tensioning go smoother. If for some odd reason I find that I have to change out my nipples every few years, I'm still way more than happy.
    Last edited by pimpbot; 01-13-2013 at 06:18 PM.

  8. #3083
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    We should be skeptical theoretical quantification of corrosion in bicycle wheels. There are tons of factors which make perfect modeling impossible. For example, brass nipples are painted. Carbon rims aren't pure carbon. Wheels flex differently and apply friction differently. Etc.

    In the real world, nipple corrosion doesn't appear to be an issue with carbon wheels. If wishing to get numerical about this analysis, the thing to do is figure out why the simplified model isn't applicable. But I don't think that is worthwhile. It is such a non-factor that other wheel attributes should take precedence when making any decision.

  9. #3084
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    Thanks to the individual who brought up this corrosion topic.

    Paranoia? Almost 100 posts later, my impression of the worst case scenario, that has been experienced, seems to be rather weak and not worth worrying about.

    What's the next topic, how to wash carbon rims and what happens when overspray/drip from cleaning/lubing other parts of the bike affects the rims?

  10. #3085
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    Can someone who has bought the complete wheelsets comment if the wheels come trued?

  11. #3086
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    Yes the wheels do come true. Though mine had relatively low spoke tension so I had to get that fixed anyways. They should come straight as can be though, mine did at least.

    On another note, how worried should I be about gouges in the rims? After 3 rides in pretty rocky terrain I've already got a few scrapes from rocks on both the front and rear rim. At what point should I be concerned?

  12. #3087
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    What's the next topic, how to wash carbon rims and what happens when overspray/drip from cleaning/lubing other parts of the bike affects the rims?
    How's about we combine the two topics?

    Cheap Chinese carbon rim fail? - Mtbr Forums

    Yeah, it's salt water...but I'd argue any electrolyte. Do you guys recall the issue SpecialED had w/ their frames and sweat dripped on the top tube infiltrating the alum lugs bonded to carbon tubes? Sweat, or salt water = an alkaline liquid...ever test soapy water's pH?
    Naysayers never apologize. Critics go to their grave thinking everyone else is wrong.
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  13. #3088
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    Thinking about pulling the trigger on a pair of these. The galvanic corrosion doesn't worry me as much as the folks who have reported nipples pulling through the rim. Does Light Bicycle recommend nipple washers to prevent this?

  14. #3089
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    I think those were actual defective rims. I have 2 sets tensioned very high and they hardly creak when you are stress relieving them.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  15. #3090
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    Well when I save up the funds for a pair of these Nancy wide carbon rims . I'm gonna build them up myself 32 hole 3x twisted WITH red alu nipples , silver DT rev spokes and a pair of 2nd hand ebay red hope pro II's . I weigh 250+ so for the money if they don't splinter into a million pieces or fizz into a steaming pile of galvanic ash within the first ride I for one will be more than happy .

    I realise for some people the $500+ investment in these wheels is a significant amount but lets not forget what we're getting here for the price .
    A relatively new new technology at an "affordable" price with new manufacturing techniques that enable the product to be so affordable . And to some extent like it or not we are all guinea pigs for them to perfect the strength to lightness vs price equation .
    Lets get back to ride impressions , build impressions , delivery promises (missed or otherwise) . As much as I like technical stuff , it's a bike wheel NOT the space shuttle and I don't think lives depend on a nipple breaking or having to get the rims re-spoked in 5 years .

    ^ All said with tongue in cheek n just trying to lighten the mood

  16. #3091
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    Guys what is "use of instantaneous point brake, do not long time brake"?

    Got these from Baixiangbike, also as rims, also as a wheel build. Have posted the geometry few pages back.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-20130115_232417.jpg  


  17. #3092
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    Quote Originally Posted by ypocat View Post
    Guys what is "use of instantaneous point brake, do not long time brake"?

    Got these from Baixiangbike, also as rims, also as a wheel build. Have posted the geometry few pages back.
    Don't drag your braking...pretty sure it refers to road rims to minimize heat buildup directly on the rim. Mountain wheels w/ discs...drag away!
    Naysayers never apologize. Critics go to their grave thinking everyone else is wrong.
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  18. #3093
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Don't drag your braking...pretty sure it refers to road rims to minimize heat buildup directly on the rim. Mountain wheels w/ discs...drag away!
    ahh, thanks

    just realized I pumped my Furious Freds at 60psi but the rim label says 50psi, oops anway, got a pucture today, switching to tubeless tomorrow, so max 40psi anyway (according to Stan)...

    also, I tried tubeless previously with these but could not inflate them with a floor pump - so I have since bough an air compressor and will see how it goes.

    anybody here runs these as tubeless on MTB? any pointers?

  19. #3094
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    Other an the recent ramblings about corrosion, this entire thread is filled with comments about running light bicycle rims tubeless. Summary, it works as expected. Have at it.

  20. #3095
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    Other an the recent ramblings about corrosion, this entire thread is filled with comments about running light bicycle rims tubeless. Summary, it works as expected. Have at it.
    I'm almost convinced. I think I'm gonna pony up for the other Bontrager rim strip and do my rear rim. I did it with yellow tape, but the tire kept burping and rolling off. so I've been running a tube back there for the last six months.

    Quote Originally Posted by ypocat View Post
    ahh, thanks

    just realized I pumped my Furious Freds at 60psi but the rim label says 50psi, oops anway, got a pucture today, switching to tubeless tomorrow, so max 40psi anyway (according to Stan)...

    also, I tried tubeless previously with these but could not inflate them with a floor pump - so I have since bough an air compressor and will see how it goes.

    anybody here runs these as tubeless on MTB? any pointers?

    I hope you're kidding. 40 psi is really frickin high, especially for 29er tires, especially for tubeless. I'm 210# and I run 28 psi on my skinniest tires, a 2.0. I usually run 25 psi on my 2.3s.

  21. #3096
    And He was Not
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    Is Stans sealant corrosive when mixed with carbon and aluminum?
    The Truth is out there. Here it isThe TRUTH

  22. #3097
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
    Is Stans sealant corrosive when mixed with carbon and aluminum?
    You evil, evil man.

  23. #3098
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
    Is Stans sealant corrosive when mixed with carbon and aluminum?
    The Bontrager Rim strip is so freaking tight the juice will never get to the nipples.

  24. #3099
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
    Is Stans sealant corrosive when mixed with carbon and aluminum?
    /Me spits out coffee.

  25. #3100
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    I'm almost convinced. I think I'm gonna pony up for the other Bontrager rim strip and do my rear rim. I did it with yellow tape, but the tire kept burping and rolling off. so I've been running a tube back there for the last six months.
    Remember I built a set of "heavier" AM Nancy rims... I'm gonna build a 2nd set soon, a lighter/standard set. But I won't even compromise the security of those Bonty strips for the weight of yellow tape...and I'm sitting on 2 rolls of the stuff.
    Naysayers never apologize. Critics go to their grave thinking everyone else is wrong.
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