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  1. #2926
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    It will fail miserably by damaging one of the teeth on each sprocket, the ones that are in contact with the steel insert.
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  2. #2927
    davidcarson48
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    So let me throw this out there...

    I had been considering grabbing some Light Bicycle carbon rims and building them up with some BHS hubs, DT Revs or SuperComps, and DT alloy nips. Total cost would be around $700 after shipping, tax and labor on the build. But, I can grab a set of the new 2013 Roval Control Carbon 29 (MSRP $1200) for $950.

    With the Rovals, I get a warranty and LBS support for my extra dollars, but I also get a radially-laced front wheel which seems a little silly. With the L-B rims, I get to choose my finish, get a wider rim with a bead hook, and I can lace them up 3X all the way around.

    What would you do and why?

  3. #2928
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    The LB wheels would be way stiffer and probably wider. Also, did you include tax in your calculations? My opinion is better wheels and way less money. Others would disagree so it is really up to what you want.
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  4. #2929
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidcarson48 View Post
    So let me throw this out there...

    I had been considering grabbing some Light Bicycle carbon rims and building them up with some BHS hubs, DT Revs or SuperComps, and DT alloy nips. Total cost would be around $700 after shipping, tax and labor on the build. But, I can grab a set of the new 2013 Roval Control Carbon 29 (MSRP $1200) for $950.

    With the Rovals, I get a warranty and LBS support for my extra dollars, but I also get a radially-laced front wheel which seems a little silly. With the L-B rims, I get to choose my finish, get a wider rim with a bead hook, and I can lace them up 3X all the way around.

    What would you do and why?
    I've been watching this thread for a while and after Specialized announced those wheels, that will be the way I'm going. I can get them for about the same price. I like having Specialized warranty and LBS support. They're DTswiss internals, so for me they are actually about the same price as getting a set of LB wheels build with DTSwiss hubs.Just depends on what it is worth more to you. I happen to like the owner of my LBS and I've been able to get stuff I need a close to internet prices and great support.

    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    The LB wheels would be way stiffer and probably wider. Also, did you include tax in your calculations? My opinion is better wheels and way less money. Others would disagree so it is really up to what you want.
    You base the stiffness on what, a wild guess? You don't even know the difference in width, yet you know enough to give an opinion that the LB wheels would be better.
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  5. #2930
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    The Lb wheels are as wide as Crests in how they hold the tires. I have yet to see any other rim that for the same width holds the tires as wide as Stans rims. The LB rims are around the same width as Flows but only hold the wheels as wide as Crests. I am almost certain that the Rovals are close to the width of Arch's IIRC so they would not hold the tires as wide as the LB wheels. Instead of just criticizing my ideas why don't you prove that the Rovals are wider or something useful. I have 12 wheelsets and have ridden many more and the 2 sets of LB wheels are by far the stiffest. I have not personally ridden the Rovels, but others that have who's opinion I respect have not claimed them to be among the stiffest wheels.

    While we are on the subject of subjective reasoning; how can you assume that the internals are the same one's DT uses in their wheels? Are they exactly the same of just made by DT on a contract from Specialized to Specialized specifications? The LB plant used to make Specialized carbon rims so that should make these every bit as good as the Specialized rims too right? You can't have it both ways.
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  6. #2931
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    I don't think so

    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    It will fail miserably by damaging one of the teeth on each sprocket, the ones that are in contact with the steel insert.
    The load is still spread about all of the splines, both alu and steel. The steel insert will keep the cassette body from moving, and digging in any further. As long as the cassette doesn't move, it won't dig in and still spread the load around.

    I know folks who ran a cheaper cassette on fully alu freehub bodies, and even those don't 'fail miserably'. They just leave little gank marks under each cassette cog. You can still back the cassette off the body, back it out of the notches, and pull the cassette off. Sometimes, it's a PITA, but it comes off. You can file down the raised burrs and keep on riding it.

  7. #2932
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    You could be right, but I bet Bill Shook (owner of AM) tested less than 3 since he ended up with 3 and not all splines backed with steel. I am willing to bet that he found with less than 3 and strong riders the steel teeth on the sprockets started to deform against the one or two steel inserts and the rest of the splines being aluminum provided little resistance to deformation. I guess we will find out in 6 months or so when people get some experience with the single steel freehub.

    I hope it works, it would be great for all involved, I just think that it looks to me like it will be too much pressure on the one splinetoooth.
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  8. #2933
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    Rovals for $950? Where?

    Quote Originally Posted by davidcarson48 View Post
    So let me throw this out there...
    I can grab a set of the new 2013 Roval Control Carbon 29 (MSRP $1200) for $950.
    If I could get a set of the Rovals for $950, I'd do it. Reliable and prompt warranty service is worth a few hundred extra bucks. Where do you get that sweet deal?
    I dreamed I ate a 10 lb marshmallow. When I awoke, my pillow was gone.

  9. #2934
    davidcarson48
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    The LB wheels would be way stiffer and probably wider. Also, did you include tax in your calculations? My opinion is better wheels and way less money. Others would disagree so it is really up to what you want.
    I did include tax in both costs. They are both wide enough for me, but why would the L-B be stiffer?

  10. #2935
    davidcarson48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appendage View Post
    If I could get a set of the Rovals for $950, I'd do it. Reliable and prompt warranty service is worth a few hundred extra bucks. Where do you get that sweet deal?
    I'm not at liberty to post it here, but it's an inside deal through a retail shop.

  11. #2936
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidcarson48 View Post
    I'm not at liberty to post it here, but it's an inside deal through a retail shop.
    I think the biggest advantage of the LB rims is a cost shift from warranty/brand to better hubs/spokes and local hand built.

    I also think Spesh wheels on a non Spesh bike are jake.

  12. #2937
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    Jake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post
    I also think Spesh wheels on a non Spesh bike are jake.
    Jake?
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  13. #2938
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appendage View Post
    Jake?
    Jake, baseball slang meaning a lazy player or a half-hearted effort, i.e. "He jaked that play."

    He jaked that build or that build is jake.

  14. #2939
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    Learn something every day

    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post
    Jake, baseball slang meaning a lazy player or a half-hearted effort, i.e. "He jaked that play."

    He jaked that build or that build is jake.
    Ah, okay. Yeah, I can see that. But to me, the most important thing is stuff that works at a price I can afford. If it happens to say "Roval" on it, I can live with it. Admittedly, though, this sort of thinking is probably why I always failed in the swimsuit competition.
    I dreamed I ate a 10 lb marshmallow. When I awoke, my pillow was gone.

  15. #2940
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    if you want cheap rims, you have to buy them from china. you also need to compared the price and the quality.

  16. #2941
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    davidcarson48 the LB wheels are the stiffest wheels I have ever ridden. The reason I think the Roval's won't be as stiff are that they eliminated the bead hook on the rims which would tend to make the rims less stiff and they use straight pull spokes. Straight pull spokes do not have the bracing angle the normal spokes do and are not as stiff. Also, in general terms, machine built wheels are less stiff than good quality hand built wheels.
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  17. #2942
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    EDIT

    DELETED already covered.

    -G
    Last edited by fire_strom; 01-01-2013 at 08:31 AM.

  18. #2943
    davidcarson48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post
    I think the biggest advantage of the LB rims is a cost shift from warranty/brand to better hubs/spokes and local hand built.

    I also think Spesh wheels on a non Spesh bike are jake.
    I agree with this. It is among my considerations, for sure.

  19. #2944
    davidcarson48
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    davidcarson48 the LB wheels are the stiffest wheels I have ever ridden. The reason I think the Roval's won't be as stiff are that they eliminated the bead hook on the rims which would tend to make the rims less stiff and they use straight pull spokes. Straight pull spokes do not have the bracing angle the normal spokes do and are not as stiff. Also, in general terms, machine built wheels are less stiff than good quality hand built wheels.
    I hadn't considered that the bead hook could contribute to stiffness.

    I was under the impression that straight pull spokes built a stiffer wheel because they were laced at a higher tension. Is that wrong? Or at least not an absolute rule?

    The Rovals are hand built as well.

  20. #2945
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post
    I think the biggest advantage of the LB rims is a cost shift from warranty/brand to better hubs/spokes and local hand built.

    I also think Spesh wheels on a non Spesh bike are jake.
    Specialized make components as well as bikes. So Specialized tires, saddle, seat post etc... only belong on Specialized bikes?
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  21. #2946
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    So does having Specialized seats on a Salsa, a Santa Cruz and a Pivot make them all jake. Do the Roval wheels on the Santa Cruz balance out the jakeness or make it double jake?

    That's all nonsense.
    G

  22. #2947
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    The Lb wheels are as wide as Crests in how they hold the tires. I have yet to see any other rim that for the same width holds the tires as wide as Stans rims. The LB rims are around the same width as Flows but only hold the wheels as wide as Crests. I am almost certain that the Rovals are close to the width of Arch's IIRC so they would not hold the tires as wide as the LB wheels. Instead of just criticizing my ideas why don't you prove that the Rovals are wider or something useful. I have 12 wheelsets and have ridden many more and the 2 sets of LB wheels are by far the stiffest. I have not personally ridden the Rovels, but others that have who's opinion I respect have not claimed them to be among the stiffest wheels.

    While we are on the subject of subjective reasoning; how can you assume that the internals are the same one's DT uses in their wheels? Are they exactly the same of just made by DT on a contract from Specialized to Specialized specifications? The LB plant used to make Specialized carbon rims so that should make these every bit as good as the Specialized rims too right? You can't have it both ways.
    Pretty sure DTswiss would have a problem with Specialized specifically saying DT350 internals if they weren't to the same spec.
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  23. #2948
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    davidcarson48 the LB wheels are the stiffest wheels I have ever ridden. The reason I think the Roval's won't be as stiff are that they eliminated the bead hook on the rims which would tend to make the rims less stiff and they use straight pull spokes. Straight pull spokes do not have the bracing angle the normal spokes do and are not as stiff. Also, in general terms, machine built wheels are less stiff than good quality hand built wheels.
    You sure about that? They claim the opposite.
    "Rim uses a zero bead-hook design for use of continuous fiber across the sidewall and rim bed, which creates a stronger impact resistance."

    So since I don't work with carbon, I'd like to hear from someone that does, not a guess from someone without any true knowledge about it.

    Not trying to get into a pissing match because I really would like to hear opinions on the no bead hook. I have a quote on some wheels with 240 and LB rims, but they are the same price as the Rovals and won't have the LBS warranty and support that Rovals will, so its a tuff choice.

    I'm sure the OP is having the same problem and 'I think' from people that don't really know doesn't really help
    13 Lenz Lunchbox punkass

  24. #2949
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post
    I also think Spesh wheels on a non Spesh bike are jake.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post
    Jake, baseball slang meaning a lazy player or a half-hearted effort, i.e. "He jaked that play."

    He jaked that build or that build is jake.
    Wow, that's really trying to force an expression into a meaning. Leave the baseball slang to baseball and don't try and bring it to MTBing. It just doesn't fit, work or even make sense.

    In fact, it's pretty lame. Should we all have matching brands for all our bits and pieces? Is it "jake" to put WTB or Ritchey parts on non WTB or Ritchey bikes? Is it "jake" to put Specialized tires on a non-Spec bike (remember, Spec started as a tire company)? What about Easton bars on a non... er, wait, they don't make bikes. What about Candy pedals on a... oh, wait, they don't make bikes, either.

    Using the best components for a rider is a matter of taste preference... and we all have different tastes and needs for our bikes. To accuse someone of being lazy for using a part they feel meets their needs is pretty presumptuous.
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  25. #2950
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruscle View Post
    I did, spokes were 1mm through the back of the nipples on one side on both wheels, so no problems as didn't run out of thread.
    I too am planning to do the same thing. I think I read where you can just tape the new rim to the old rim and one by one move each spoke over to the respective hole and then re-true, tension, dish, etc. Is this the quickest/best way to swap? I am using C/K hubs with Arch rims (which have a similar ERD). My current spokes are 292mm DT Swiss Supercomps.

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