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  1. #5751
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    The light-bicycles 29er hookless 35mm rims have an erd of 589mm. My wheels built up fine w/ this...

  2. #5752
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    Quote Originally Posted by cytoe View Post
    The light-bicycles 29er hookless 35mm rims have an erd of 589mm. My wheels built up fine w/ this...
    That's good that you got it to work, but 589 mm is to the nipple seat so I'd expect your spokes to be just a little short. Did they reach the bottom of the nipple slot? I got 592-593 mm measuring across the rim with a pair of spokes in nipples.

  3. #5753
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZmike View Post
    That's good that you got it to work, but 589 mm is to the nipple seat so I'd expect your spokes to be just a little short. Did they reach the bottom of the nipple slot? I got 592-593 mm measuring across the rim with a pair of spokes in nipples.
    Using the dtswiss spoke calculator, my wheels built up fine. I'm no expert, but this is the 6th pair of wheels I've built (all w/ this calculator).

  4. #5754
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    Warranty Replacement is on its way. Only had to pay 45 for shipping. Never going below 25 psi on these things again.

  5. #5755
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    Quote Originally Posted by cytoe View Post
    The light-bicycles 29er hookless 35mm rims have an erd of 589mm. My wheels built up fine w/ this...
    Mine definitely do not have an ERD of 589, but that is why you should always measure them
    Had another tech at work measure them, also got an average of 592..

  6. #5756
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by cytoe View Post
    Using the dtswiss spoke calculator, my wheels built up fine. I'm no expert, but this is the 6th pair of wheels I've built (all w/ this calculator).
    The calculator is not the issue... it's the data you feed into it.
    For building wheels have a relative tolerance to spoke length. Durability is different.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  7. #5757
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    The calculator is not the issue... it's the data you feed into it.
    For building wheels have a relative tolerance to spoke length. Durability is different.
    There is a tendency for people to get so geeked about their new wheels that they order spokes while waiting for the rims. Huge mistake. Get the rims and hubs, measure, then buy your spokes.

  8. #5758
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    My experience is that carbon wheels tend to flex a little when you build them up (the flex is in the vicinity of the spoke holes). Say you measure an aluminum and a carbon wheel at 600. Aluminum doesn't flex much and carbon flexes a little. So if you use 600 for the aluminum wheel and 598 for the carbon wheel, by the time you build them and tension them the amount of threads on the bottom of the nipple will be about the same.

    I am sure that a whole bunch of people will flame me, but I have built wheels and looked at the amount of threads left and this is generally true. If they do careful observation, they will see it. Also, all my carbon wheels were Chinese not EDGE, which appear to have much stiffer hole areas but I have never built an EDGE wheel.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  9. #5759
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    Also, all my builds were 29er not 26 or 27
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  10. #5760
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by brimorga View Post
    Take a look at the weight for DT 180 or extralight (sp?) hubs. Both road hubs but I've seen people using them. Going with 28 spokes and alloy nipples would help as well. Center lock brakes could shave off a few grams also instead of 6 bolt.


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    Both DT 180s and Extralights are made in MTB versions...


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  11. #5761
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Both DT 180s and Extralights are made in MTB versions...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Ooooh, sexy! I love the look of low flange hubs. Not a big fan of white stuff, but I would own a set if I had budget for them... and I was the kinda guy who spend $300 on lunch every day. I love centerlock, too.

    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-dt_swiss_180_r_mtb_hub_150.jpg

    but $825? is that right?!? Yikes!!

    DT Swiss 180 Carbon Ceramic Center Lock Mountain Rear Hub - Wheelbuilder.com

  12. #5762
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    35/30mm LB rims

    Quote Originally Posted by S.O.B. View Post
    Yes! They are ready to roll.
    Here are my Light-Bicycle DH (460g) 35/30mm Hookless rims. DT Swiss 240 hubs with DT Aerolite spokes. The final setup is with 120tpi Surly Knard tires, tubeless.
    I was able to roll my tires on by hand, no problem. Using a compressor, they popped into shape with no problems.
    Weight with Stans tape (double wrapped 28m) n' valves is ~1690g.

    Attachment 884931Attachment 884932Attachment 884933Attachment 884934
    S.O.B.,

    Are those rims All Mountain with 35mm outside and 30mm inside?

  13. #5763
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    Whew! Finally read through this entire thread. Lots of good info and I thank you all for posting your results. It has been very helpful to me. I did notice a couple of slight detours -- nipple fishing, FEA analysis, mud slinging, etc. Some of those were entertaining and to be expected in such a long-running thread on the internets.

    As for me, my LB "Wider carbon mountain 29er rims clincher(tubeless-compatible)" arrived yesterday. I must say they sure look nice. I will measure the ERD and order up some spokes (DT Comp/brass nips). I have a set of Hope Pro II Evo (42t) hubs I won in a raffle to complete the build using Roger Munson's Wheelbuilding book for building bicycle wheels. I will set them up tubeless with 3M Scotch 8898 tape and American Classic valve stems. These will go on a new Salsa 2013 Spearfish frame (closeout sale!) I am building up.

    Sorry for the lack of useful information, but at least I'll be subscribed for updates. ;-)

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  14. #5764
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by vokeswaagin View Post
    Mine definitely do not have an ERD of 589, but that is why you should always measure them
    Had another tech at work measure them, also got an average of 592..
    How did you measure them and why they are not 589-ERD as announced?

  15. #5765
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    The nipple bed diameter of the rim is 589 mm in the drawing. Spokes should extend to the bottom of the slot in the nipple which is 1.5-2 mm past the surface of the nipple that contacts the rim. 589 + 1.5 + 1.5 = 592 (if you're going to use the drawing for an ERD estimate). Measuring across the rims with spokes threaded into nipples will give you another ERD that will include any differences between your rim and the drawing. In my case with the 30-35 width as well as vokeswaagin's experience the LB rims are consistent with their drawings. It's just the ERD label on the drawing that is misleading. My understanding is that when is comes to determining spoke lengths, ERD describes the diameter of the ends of the spokes, not the diameter of the inward-facing surface of the nipples.
    Last edited by AZmike; 04-18-2014 at 08:42 PM.

  16. #5766
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    Makes sense to me.

    I measured mine using two spokes of equal length with nipples threaded on so that the end of the spoke is flush with the bottom of the nipple slot.. then grabbed the two hooked ends of the spokes with a digital caliper. Spoke1 + Spoke2 + caliper reading = ERD

    Also measured using the wheelsmith method to try it out and got pretty much the same result.. averaged 592.

    The rims built up great, spokes are very equal in tension per their respective side. The wheels are STIFF.

    DT 350 CL 15/TA
    DT 350 CL 12x142 XD
    DT Competition
    Brass DT Nipples & RnR Nipple Cream

    and a very respectable 1683g!

    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-lb3501.jpg(Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-lb3502.jpg(Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-lb3503.jpg(Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-lb3504.jpg(Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-lb3505.jpg

    Wrap of tape and popped in the stock specialized tubeless valves,
    2bliss ready 2.3 Purgatory and 2.3 Butcher tires seated up with a series of ping/snaps and good to go!

    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-lb3506.jpg
    Last edited by vokeswaagin; 04-18-2014 at 11:57 PM. Reason: added pictures

  17. #5767
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    New shoes - internal nipples and LB hookless 29er 27-24

  18. #5768
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    Yoeleo 35mm wide rims?

    Just wondering anyone has tried out 35mm wide yoeleo rims???Wide MTB Rims - Quality Carbon 29er 35mm Wide MTB Rims Clincher 23.5mm Yoeleo

  19. #5769
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    Quote Originally Posted by vokeswaagin View Post
    Makes sense to me.

    I measured mine using two spokes of equal length with nipples threaded on so that the end of the spoke is flush with the bottom of the nipple slot.. then grabbed the two hooked ends of the spokes with a digital caliper. Spoke1 + Spoke2 + caliper reading = ERD

    Also measured using the wheelsmith method to try it out and got pretty much the same result.. averaged 592.

    The rims built up great, spokes are very equal in tension per their respective side. The wheels are STIFF.

    DT 350 CL 15/TA
    DT 350 CL 12x142 XD
    DT Competition
    Brass DT Nipples & RnR Nipple Cream

    and a very respectable 1683g!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Wrap of tape and popped in the stock specialized tubeless valves,
    2bliss ready 2.3 Purgatory and 2.3 Butcher tires seated up with a series of ping/snaps and good to go!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Are your rims the Light-Bicycle 29er carbon 35mm hookless ones?

  20. #5770
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    Yes, 30mm (35mm external width.. Which is useless & misleading )

  21. #5771
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    Quote Originally Posted by vokeswaagin View Post
    Yes, 30mm (35mm external width.. Which is useless & misleading )
    Wow, 1683grams is great for that build. Your setup with hubs, spokes,and nipples is exactly what mine will be. Thanks for the info!

  22. #5772
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    Quote Originally Posted by vokeswaagin View Post
    DT 350 CL 15/TA
    DT 350 CL 12x142 XD
    DT Competition
    Brass DT Nipples & RnR Nipple Cream
    Nice. I have a set of wheels that I purchased last year with DT 350 Straight-pull 6-bolt hubs. I have thought about replacing the current rims, DT XR400's, with the 30mm inner diameter carbon rims that you have.

    Have you purchased the 36 tooth ratchet upgrade for your DT350's?

  23. #5773
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    Quote Originally Posted by akazan View Post
    S.O.B.,

    Are those rims All Mountain with 35mm outside and 30mm inside?
    No and Yes. I opted for the beefier DH version which came in at just over 460g each per rim. They are the 35mm outer/30mm inner hookless rims.

  24. #5774
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbet View Post
    Just wondering anyone has tried out 35mm wide yoeleo rims???Wide MTB Rims - Quality Carbon 29er 35mm Wide MTB Rims Clincher 23.5mm Yoeleo
    I have a pair of those rims, but I bought them from Nextie.
    I'm happy with them so far.

  25. #5775
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    Quote Originally Posted by journey View Post
    Have you purchased the 36 tooth ratchet upgrade for your DT350's?
    No, I spaced it.. Ill probably get it ordered up today though. Thanks for the reminder!

  26. #5776
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    Quote Originally Posted by vokeswaagin View Post
    No, I spaced it.. Ill probably get it ordered up today though. Thanks for the reminder!
    I'd get the 54t ratchet upgrade from trek (part #436413...you need 2 btw). The engagement improvement is noticeable coming from the 36t. Anyone interested in my 36t kit?

  27. #5777
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    Holy cow this thread is long. Has anyone tried using the straight pull Novatec hubs? DS51SB and DS52SB to be exact.

    My girlfriend is hell bent on buying some wheels to replace the Giant P-XCR29er 1's on her Anthem. Looking for a lightweight XC race wheel. I was thinking of trying the LB 29 hookless rim with those hubs and some of the Pillar Aero spokes. Looks like they would weigh in at roughly 1465 gm. I am assuming 360 gm each for the rims, 28 spokes F/R at 4.75 gm each, and 56 nipples at .3 gm each. Any advice on this build?

  28. #5778
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThrottleAbuse View Post
    Holy cow this thread is long. Has anyone tried using the straight pull Novatec hubs? DS51SB and DS52SB to be exact.

    My girlfriend is hell bent on buying some wheels to replace the Giant P-XCR29er 1's on her Anthem. Looking for a lightweight XC race wheel. I was thinking of trying the LB 29 hookless rim with those hubs and some of the Pillar Aero spokes. Looks like they would weigh in at roughly 1465 gm. I am assuming 360 gm each for the rims, 28 spokes F/R at 4.75 gm each, and 56 nipples at .3 gm each. Any advice on this build?
    Where do you intend to get the straight pull spokes from?

  29. #5779
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    On the subject of spokes, anyone know where u can get Pillar X-tra lite ti spokes from?

  30. #5780
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    2015 Flyxii / ENVE /Chris King Carbon 29'er H.T.
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  31. #5781
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    My bad. I thought Pillar had straight pull spokes. I didn't look at their site close enough. Guess I will have to go with the DT Swiss Aerolites.

    Still interested in any info on the straight pull Novatec hubs.

  32. #5782
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by cytoe View Post
    I'd get the 54t ratchet upgrade from trek (part #436413...you need 2 btw). The engagement improvement is noticeable coming from the 36t. Anyone interested in my 36t kit?
    Where did you get this new ratchets and $$$?

  33. #5783
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrul View Post
    Where did you get this new ratchets and $$$?
    Quote Originally Posted by cytoe View Post
    I'd get the 54t ratchet upgrade from trek (part #436413...you need 2 btw). The engagement improvement is noticeable coming from the 36t. Anyone interested in my 36t kit?
    Wonder where he got? I have a feeling if you called a Trek dealer and gave them the part number, they could give you a price.

    Man people have gotten lazy.
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  34. #5784
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by patrul View Post
    Where did you get this new ratchets and $$$?
    I have read they charge $60 per ratchet, so $120.


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  35. #5785
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    Quote Originally Posted by cytoe View Post
    I'd get the 54t ratchet upgrade from trek (part #436413...you need 2 btw). The engagement improvement is noticeable coming from the 36t. Anyone interested in my 36t kit?

    Wuh wuh wait a sec... so, you mean to say that our DT Swiss star ratchets that are 16 point stock, the DT upgrade is 36pt (which I have on all my DT hubs... great upgrade, btw!) can be upgraded further to 54 POE?

    That is awesome!!

    So, what can I expect to pay for this upgrayedd? I actually have one hub that is not upgraded to >16POE (yet).

    Thanks!

  36. #5786
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    Wuh wuh wait a sec... so, you mean to say that our DT Swiss star ratchets that are 16 point stock, the DT upgrade is 36pt (which I have on all my DT hubs... great upgrade, btw!) can be upgraded further to 54 POE?

    That is awesome!!

    So, what can I expect to pay for this upgrayedd? I actually have one hub that is not upgraded to >16POE (yet).

    Thanks!
    yup. all good except the price... $128 for 54t upgrade ($60ea x 2 + tax). It's worth it to me though...I wanted faster engagement to minimize pedal clunk in the chunk.

  37. #5787
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    Quote Originally Posted by cytoe View Post
    yup. all good except the price... $128 for 54t upgrade ($60ea x 2 + tax). It's worth it to me though...I wanted faster engagement to minimize pedal clunk in the chunk.
    Dang... and I thought $80 for the DT Swiss 36 pt was pricy... they were $35 for the longest time, then shot up. Maybe if I kill the star ratchets I have I'll do that.

  38. #5788
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    Wuh wuh wait a sec... so, you mean to say that our DT Swiss star ratchets that are 16 point stock, the DT upgrade is 36pt (which I have on all my DT hubs... great upgrade, btw!) can be upgraded further to 54 POE?

    That is awesome!!

    So, what can I expect to pay for this upgrayedd? I actually have one hub that is not upgraded to >16POE (yet).

    Thanks!
    18 x 1 = 18
    18 x 2 = 36
    18 x 3 = 54


  39. #5789
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    Just received my set of LB Hookless 29er rims today. 32H, UD Matte, 27mm wide, XC. 342g/352g on my scale.

    Ordered April 3, shipped April 19, received April 22. Just under 3 weeks all-in. Is this a record?

    Will be built up with DT Revs and King Hubs. Can't wait!

  40. #5790
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    Noticed that carbonal rims have a metal wire in the bead. Searching for more feedback, not much found - gimmick, or useful?

    Seems like a nice wide rim, typical chinese direct price.

  41. #5791
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Noticed that carbonal rims have a metal wire in the bead. Searching for more feedback, not much found - gimmick, or useful?

    Seems like a nice wide rim, typical chinese direct price.
    Carbonal, Nextie, & XMIplay appear to be all the same, just different sellers. I chose Nextie because the communication was excellent and the warranty is 2 years. Not many miles on them yet but so far they are great.

  42. #5792
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Noticed that carbonal rims have a metal wire in the bead. Searching for more feedback, not much found - gimmick, or useful?

    Seems like a nice wide rim, typical chinese direct price.
    I would say gimmick. Less carbon and a wire isn't going to prevent the carbon from damage if you have a rock strike.

    I'd think hookless would be better considering the layup appears to be stronger.
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  43. #5793
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    Quote Originally Posted by aosty View Post
    18 x 1 = 18
    18 x 2 = 36
    18 x 3 = 54

    ...and all with free bonus diminishing returns included!

  44. #5794
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    ...and all with free bonus diminishing returns included!
    18 = 1/1 beef
    36 = 1/2 beef
    54 = 1/3 beef

  45. #5795
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Noticed that carbonal rims have a metal wire in the bead. Searching for more feedback, not much found - gimmick, or useful?

    Seems like a nice wide rim, typical chinese direct price.
    My guess is the wire is an easy way to build up a hook for the rim profile. TwoTone is probably right and its being spun as a marketing ploy. Might as well point it out as a value added product if you can spin it that way. Then again, I could be totally wrong and it really has some structural benefit.

    I'm going with the hookless variety regardless. I'm liking the added meat in the edge. Looks like a winner considering the rocks in my area.

  46. #5796
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    Did you guys see that YaMon has a hookless prototype going with his co. Atomic now? There is a new article on the rims over on BikeRumor. Looks like either the super big-hooked model wasn't working out as planned, or else it might just be that market pressure is really swinging in the hookless direction now, after some initial skepticism, so companies may just be worried about being left out. They apparently still use that layer of "vibration damping" material that was shown in the first design.

  47. #5797
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheKaiser View Post
    Did you guys see that YaMon has a hookless prototype going with his co. Atomic now? There is a new article on the rims over on BikeRumor. Looks like either the super big-hooked model wasn't working out as planned, or else it might just be that market pressure is really swinging in the hookless direction now, after some initial skepticism, so companies may just be worried about being left out. They apparently still use that layer of "vibration damping" material that was shown in the first design.
    Yea, Yamon changed his name on this site to Atomik Carbon..
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  48. #5798
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheKaiser View Post
    Did you guys see that YaMon has a hookless prototype going with his co. Atomic now? There is a new article on the rims over on BikeRumor. Looks like either the super big-hooked model wasn't working out as planned, or else it might just be that market pressure is really swinging in the hookless direction now, after some initial skepticism, so companies may just be worried about being left out. They apparently still use that layer of "vibration damping" material that was shown in the first design.
    Is this the doo$hnozzle that first tried to make money by importing LB and marking them up, then didn't like the business so started trashing them everywhere, has been railing against hookless rims all over this forum, making s**t up out of thin air and trying to sound like an expert on everything from wheelbuilding to corrosion and anodizing, and was going to get into carbon lacrosse sticks for "rich morons who don't pay attention" (the way he referred to potential customers)?
    That's somebody I want to support for sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  49. #5799
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Is this the doo$hnozzle that first tried to make money by importing LB and marking them up, then didn't like the business so started trashing them everywhere, has been railing against hookless rims all over this forum, making s**t up out of thin air and trying to sound like an expert on everything from wheelbuilding to corrosion and anodizing, and was going to get into carbon lacrosse sticks for "rich morons who don't pay attention" (the way he referred to potential customers)?
    That's somebody I want to support for sure.
    Know whats even funnier? The fact that Yamon changed his name to his official "Atomik carbon" business name.. yet all his posts still exist of him trashing the same designs he is now promoting.. and now all those posts point to his new business....

    Quote Originally Posted by Atomik Carbon View Post
    This hookless thing is just plain stupid and wrong on so many fronts......First of all Specialized did this as a cost savings measure, not an upgrade for performance. Second, when the rim loses the bead hook, the only thing keeping the tire on is the air pressure, lose the air pressure and the tire will burp or roll off. Those of you that are running higher pressures need not worry. Third, when you have a bead hook, the tire AND the bead hook share the load and work together. You are not stressing the tire alone. Fourth, by losing the bead hook you are losing lateral stiffness. The thickness of the bead accomplishes this, just like how an angle extrusion works....

    To answer the ridiculous statement that cars don't, have bead hooks.....well a car tire also has much stiffer sidewall and beads. Racing Off Road trucks do in fact have bead locks.......so stupid analogy. Don't think that every new development is a good one, some are just plain stupid.
    Put a mountain biker in a room with 2 bowling balls and we'll break one and lose the other - GelatiCruiser

  50. #5800
    mtbr member
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    Oct 2009
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    4,210
    Ha. I just came here to post up about the Atomik hookless rims. Oh, the joy it brings my dark heart.

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