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  1. #5501
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    Are these LB rims nipple holes aligned or straight? if they´re straight it could be only fault with super comps if nipple angle goes bad.


    here´s picture my dt swiss rim, 32h dishless and there´s quite an angle

  2. #5502
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    Nice build! I'm having my local shop build up essentially the same wheels with Hope hubs (SS rear). Here's a direct quote from Kartrin regarding suggested spoke tensions:

    For the 29er rims the maximum spoke & nipple tension is 180kgf.
    A. Tension for "transportation riders" (Comfortability) - 80-90kgf are ideal for regular transportation riders or exercise on a regular basis.
    B. Tension for "enthusiast riders" (Balance) - 100-110kgf are good for people with enjoyful and training purpose.
    C. Tension for "professional riders" (Performance) - 120-130kgf are used for riders who are expertized in riding or competition. In general, the recommended spoke tension is less than 130kgf.

    Hope this helps!

  3. #5503
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    Quote Originally Posted by singletrackkid View Post
    Nice build! I'm having my local shop build up essentially the same wheels with Hope hubs (SS rear). Here's a direct quote from Kartrin regarding suggested spoke tensions:

    For the 29er rims the maximum spoke & nipple tension is 180kgf.
    A. Tension for "transportation riders" (Comfortability) - 80-90kgf are ideal for regular transportation riders or exercise on a regular basis.
    B. Tension for "enthusiast riders" (Balance) - 100-110kgf are good for people with enjoyful and training purpose.
    C. Tension for "professional riders" (Performance) - 120-130kgf are used for riders who are expertized in riding or competition. In general, the recommended spoke tension is less than 130kgf.

    Hope this helps!
    So you're taking wheel building advice from them even after it's been shown several times, they don't really use 'best practices' when building a wheel?
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  4. #5504
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    May I ask how you cut the Gorilla Tape to the correct width?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rovershack View Post
    Also, super fast tubeless set up with NO issues at all. Ran a strip of Gorilla tape, threw in the Stan's valve stems and the seated up just fine. These are the bead hookless 35mm outer width rims.

  5. #5505
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    RE about 5 posts ago: the Alpine 3's are probably way too heavy for a build. They are a tandem rated spoke and I built a set of LB wheels with them to be super heavy duty and I am certain that they were overkill and the wheels are heavier than they needed to be. Also, as pointed out the spoke holes are straight on the LB wheels and best practice is to put a little bit of bend in the spokes just above the nipple to help with this and bending Alpine 3's is not for sissy's.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  6. #5506
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    Here is a picture of my XMIplay carbon wheel set ready to ship, have not received them yet but Peter sent me some pictures. My first set of carbon wheels, I am excited to see how well they ride.

    IP-RM30 30mm wide clincher rims
    Sapim Cx-Ray straight pull spokes
    Sapim Alloy Nipples
    Bitex BX401 Hubs (15 & 12x142 thru axles)
    XD Freehub for SRAM XX1
    1580g
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-img_6827.jpg  


  7. #5507
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    RE about 5 posts ago: the Alpine 3's are probably way too heavy for a build. They are a tandem rated spoke and I built a set of LB wheels with them to be super heavy duty and I am certain that they were overkill and the wheels are heavier than they needed to be. Also, as pointed out the spoke holes are straight on the LB wheels and best practice is to put a little bit of bend in the spokes just above the nipple to help with this and bending Alpine 3's is not for sissy's.
    Found some weight info from my archives

    16- dt supercomp 88g 286mm 2-1,7-1,8
    16- dt competition 102g 288mm 2-1,8-2
    16- dt alpineIII 117g 290mm 2,34-1,8-2

    What´s the difference actually? at least you don´t have to use spoke washers with alpineIII.
    But maybe those aren´t most used spokes here, weightweenies subforum

  8. #5508
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    Quote Originally Posted by manninen View Post
    Found some weight info from my archives

    16- dt supercomp 88g 286mm 2-1,7-1,8
    16- dt competition 102g 288mm 2-1,8-2
    16- dt alpineIII 117g 290mm 2,34-1,8-2

    What´s the difference actually?
    Well... the math is pretty easy, so if you compare Alpine III to S.Comps, the difference is 116g for the wheelset.
    If you compare to Revolutions, the difference is 161g.
    Significant, IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by manninen View Post
    at least you don´t have to use spoke washers.
    You don't have to anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by manninen View Post
    But maybe those aren´t most used spokes here, weightweenies subforum
    This is not the weightweenies forum.

    What would be the benefit (besides the added weight) of such an extreme overbuild?
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  9. #5509
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    I don´t know why i want to build stiff wheels

  10. #5510
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    You all are clogging up the thread with your useless debate on nipples. I do have a relevant question: if I wanted to build a 24h front 29er wheel, would Alpine or a similar spoke be a good choice?

  11. #5511
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    Sorry guys, it was meant to be just building specs.
    I don´t want to build 24h front disc hub wheel, but it would look nice with chris king and colored alu nipples.

    https://www.reynoldscycling.com/reyn...heel-Stiffness

  12. #5512
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    Besides the weight, another reason you might not want the Alpine 3's is that they will not fit through the holes in about half the hubs. When building a wheel, one thing you should check that most people forget is the diameter of the holes in the hubs and the diameter of the spokes. The hub holes need to be a smidge larger in order to get the bend through and you don't want the spokes to be too much smaller since that will make the wheel less durable.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  13. #5513
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by manninen View Post
    Sorry guys, it was meant to be just building specs.
    I don´t want to build 24h front disc hub wheel, but it would look nice with chris king and colored alu nipples.

    https://www.reynoldscycling.com/reyn...heel-Stiffness
    The numbers in that 30-second look at wheel stiffness are bogus.
    Small deflection laterally and large vertically? Vertical(radial) stiffness is usually at least 10X lateral stiffness, so I guess all wheel designers, including their own have failed miserably.
    Also, the percentage discussion is mostly meaningless.
    If your wheel deflects 0.5 mm and you increase stiffness 40% by adding 160g to the wheel, it will now deflect 0.3mm instead. OMG!!! What an incredible difference!! 0.2mm
    Go for it. Use straight gauge and 36h rims while you're at it.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  14. #5514
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by chomxxo View Post
    You all are clogging up the thread with your useless debate on nipples. I do have a relevant question: if I wanted to build a 24h front 29er wheel, would Alpine or a similar spoke be a good choice?
    Useless?

    Asking about spokes is useless. All wheels should be built with "dt revs or Sapim lasers".

  15. #5515
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    I can live weight increase full amount of spokes, if 32 revos weight that 155g and alpineIII´s are 235g´s and other spokes are there between.

    come on guys you are weightweenies! i sure i am, i´ve weighted all my bike parts separately

  16. #5516
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    Just got back from dropping off my rims to be built. The builder recommended 15g DT nipples and super comps if I wanted to go aluminum as there is more aluminum left in the nipple than on the revo.

    The 14g for Revos is drilled out more. If I wanted to go with Revos, he recommended I used brass.

    Weight comes out to be about the same either way as well as the price (the wheel builder said they underpriced some of their spokes), but he thought he might have the super comps in stock, so I went with those.
    Last edited by brimorga; 03-28-2014 at 10:07 PM. Reason: schooled by meltingfeather

  17. #5517
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    My Orer to deliver time frame

    I ordered on 1/31. They're in San Francisco today. I'll see how long they take to arrive at my door. I estimate Monday which makes total time about 60 days.

    I'm excited to have them, but feel bad for the first person who took the plunge years ago and sat wondering for months where their rims were.
    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-lb-carbon.jpg

  18. #5518
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by brimorga View Post
    Just got back from dropping off my rims to be built. The builder recommended 15mm DT nipples for the super comps if I wanted to go aluminum.

    If I wanted to go with Revos, he recommended I used brass.

    Weight comes out to be about the same either way as well as the price (the wheel builder said they underpriced some of their spokes), but he thought he might have the super comps in stock, so I went with those.
    Those are goofy recommendations. In the case of the 16mm (DT does not make 15mm) nipples, it's actually a bad recommendation. In the case of brass for Revos it's just nonsensical.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  19. #5519
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    My Order to delivery time frame

    I ordered on 1/31. They're in San Francisco today. I'll see how long they take to arrive at my door. I estimate Monday which makes total time about 60 days.

    I'm excited to have them, but feel bad for the first person who took the plunge years ago and sat wondering for months where their rims were.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  20. #5520
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Those are goofy recommendations. In the case of the 16mm (DT does not make 15mm) nipples, it's actually a bad recommendation.
    I thought the same thing but looked it up and they have a pro lock version in 15mm. He basically said that the 15mm is stronger as it's the same hole size with more material around it to keep the nipple from breaking for a very small weight difference, 6 grams total for 64 nips. He quoted me the same price for both so I figured why not.

    He's a highly rated wheel builder I got from this site, built over 2000 wheels, so I'm going to trust him on this one.

    14mm vs 15mm nipple didn't seem like a big deal to me but I could be wrong.


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  21. #5521
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    Quote Originally Posted by brimorga View Post
    I thought the same thing but looked it up and they have a pro lock version in 15mm.
    Really?

    I just looked through all their Prolock nipple specs in 4 minutes and not a one is offered in 15mm. Where did you find them? Got a link?
    Quote Originally Posted by brimorga View Post
    He basically said that the 15mm is stronger as it's the same hole size with more material around it to keep the nipple from breaking for a very small weight difference, 6 grams total for 64 nips. He quoted me the same price for both so I figured why not.
    I think you mean 15 gauge nipples, for which this argument makes a little more sense. There is more material in the nipple, but it's because there is less material in the spoke.
    Quote Originally Posted by brimorga View Post
    He's a highly rated wheel builder I got from this site, built over 2000 wheels, so I'm going to trust him on this one.
    Trusting him is a good call. With that much experience hopefully the technique is good and the communication of the facts is just a little fuzzy.

    Quote Originally Posted by brimorga View Post
    14mm vs 15mm nipple didn't seem like a big deal to me but I could be wrong.
    I'm sure it will work out.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  22. #5522
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    Mine were shipped out on 3/21 and I haven't seen any update..What site did you use that provided you with that update screen? When I look at EMS or USPS, it has not updated since that day.

    Quote Originally Posted by SLS1980 View Post
    I ordered on 1/31. They're in San Francisco today. I'll see how long they take to arrive at my door. I estimate Monday which makes total time about 60 days.

    I'm excited to have them, but feel bad for the first person who took the plunge years ago and sat wondering for months where their rims were.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  23. #5523
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    ​​
    2015 Flyxii / ENVE /Chris King Carbon 29'er H.T.
    SRAM XX1
    2012 Stump Jumper Comp 29'er H.T. SRAM XX1
    1997 Rock Hopper / Rock Shox Recon Silver / 1 x 10 SRAM X9 XO Mix XT V Brake system

  24. #5524
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    My rims been sent via TNT, tracking says deliverytime is next monday 31th. i don´t believe it somehow

  25. #5525
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Really?

    I just looked through all their Prolock nipple specs in 4 minutes and not a one is offered in 15mm. Where did you find them? Got a link?

    I think you mean 15 gauge nipples, for which this argument makes a little more sense. There is more material in the nipple, but it's because there is less material in the spoke.

    Trusting him is a good call. With that much experience hopefully the technique is good and the communication of the facts is just a little fuzzy.


    I'm sure it will work out.
    See the last products.

    http://www.dtswiss.com/Resources/Sup...cation-Nipples

  26. #5526
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    Quote Originally Posted by chomxxo View Post
    May I ask how you cut the Gorilla Tape to the correct width?


    I have the smaller roll of Gorilla tape, it's already cut to about 2cm. Not sure on true width.

  27. #5527
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLS1980 View Post
    I ordered on 1/31. They're in San Francisco today. I'll see how long they take to arrive at my door. I estimate Monday which makes total time about 60 days.

    I'm excited to have them, but feel bad for the first person who took the plunge years ago and sat wondering for months where their rims were.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Once mine where in San Fran on Tuesday, cleared customs same day, and were in Denver the next day, Wednesday.

  28. #5528
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel J View Post
    Mine were shipped out on 3/21 and I haven't seen any update..What site did you use that provided you with that update screen? When I look at EMS or USPS, it has not updated since that day.
    You need to be patient. Mine shipped out with tracking on 3/15, I didn't get an update until they arrived in San Fran on 3/25. They were at my door on 3/26 in Denver.

  29. #5529
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    Re: (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel J View Post
    Mine were shipped out on 3/21 and I haven't seen any update..What site did you use that provided you with that update screen? When I look at EMS or USPS, it has not updated since that day.
    I've found that if you enter in the USPS site they track EMS pretty well. The site that's from pulls USPS but is from pdexpress.com. I use their app for my Android phone to update me.

    posted from my mobile device

  30. #5530
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by brimorga View Post
    Got it, thanks.
    15mm nipples have no more supportive material than 14mm.
    15ga nipples do, as I said.
    If you're using the builder I think you are who loves S.Comps and Prolocks, the build is going to work out perfectly.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  31. #5531
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    Quote Originally Posted by manninen View Post
    Are these LB rims nipple holes aligned or straight? if they´re straight it could be only fault with super comps if nipple angle goes bad.


    here´s picture my dt swiss rim, 32h dishless and there´s quite an angle
    They are straight drilled, hopefully they'll fix this at some point.

  32. #5532
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhegglin View Post
    Attachment 853484


    Here's my wheel.
    ...wow, graphic is the word id use to describe those hubs and rims...and i appreciate that you say "I would say.." as opposed to a one hundred percenter (though i get your true intention).

    thanks

  33. #5533
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    That looks ridden. keep up the good work
    Indesructable rim does not exist

  34. #5534
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by manninen View Post
    Are these LB rims nipple holes aligned or straight? if they´re straight it could be only fault with super comps if nipple angle goes bad.
    here´s picture my dt swiss rim, 32h dishless and there´s quite an angle
    Not sure exactly what you're saying, but the nipple holes are straight and it affects all spokes and nipples, not just S.Comps.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  35. #5535
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    Just got done with my first XC race with the new rims and they worked and felt great. Mine are currently built up with Roval hubs and the new beadless rims.

  36. #5536
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxtremec View Post
    Just got done with my first XC race with the new rims and they worked and felt great. Mine are currently built up with Roval hubs and the new beadless rims.
    Cool, you mean hookless? How is tubeless working for you and with what tires?

  37. #5537
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    Do nipple washers help at all? I have no wheel building knowledge, but just thought I'd ask...

  38. #5538
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by singletrackkid View Post
    Do nipple washers help at all? I have no wheel building knowledge, but just thought I'd ask...
    In this case using carbon rims, it would only help if the rim bed itself was very thin (which they are not) and the tension extremely high (140+ kgf which again no ones goes over 130-135kgf usually) and if you kept on turning the nipples every other ride (which you shouldn't have to).

    It used to be an issue for low spoke count aluminum road wheels, but not anymore with carbon and better alloy and building practices.
    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleB28 View Post
    topless. that's what all mtb girls do. we go ride, get topless, have pillow fights in the woods, scissor, then ride home!

  39. #5539
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    that pictured DT rim has nipple washer and it was getting tension more quickly than other carbon rim which hasn´t got washer. only thing i got in mind that maybe nipple may sink a little bit to the rim, i could verify this to dismantle wheel and build it again.
    Picture anyone?

  40. #5540
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    I got quote of $440.91 for two 29" 35mm downhill (460 gram) rims delivered.

  41. #5541
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    Upset Where did the rest of this thresd go?

    Title says it all.
    But the thread just quits last week sometime now, i was reading it last night, now nothing?
    http://ficdn.mtbr.com/images/icons/icon8.png
    Want to find out from david c about getting these rims without drilled tire bed. No holes except valve stem.
    I really like the idea of no tape, though it sounds like a PITA to get the nipples in place, sounds worth it to me.

  42. #5542
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by SLS1980 View Post
    I ordered on 1/31. They're in San Francisco today. I'll see how long they take to arrive at my door. I estimate Monday which makes total time about 60 days.

    I'm excited to have them, but feel bad for the first person who took the plunge years ago and sat wondering for months where their rims were.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Arrived yesterday.

  43. #5543
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLS1980 View Post
    Arrived yesterday.
    I think somebody already mentioned this, but 1/31/14 was the beginning of Chinese new year. That's +15 days for your rims, plus the additional backlog from other customers, pretty much worst case scenario I'd think.

  44. #5544
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by singletrackkid View Post
    Do nipple washers help at all? I have no wheel building knowledge, but just thought I'd ask...
    No.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  45. #5545
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trailice View Post
    Want to find out from david c about getting these rims without drilled tire bed. No holes except valve stem.
    I really like the idea of no tape, though it sounds like a PITA to get the nipples in place, sounds worth it to me.
    Hey buddy, my rims were the 26" 33mm wide and 30mm deep flavor, which you can find info on in the 26" carbon hoops thread. I just follow both threads, regardless of wheel sizes.

    You simply order the rims that are deep enough to allow a 12mm nipple to flip inside the double wall and ask them not to drill the rim bed. You can also send a picture of such a rim to make sure there is no confusion. They'll probably know what you mean already, but it's always good to double-check.

    Yes it's a freaking PITA to lace up, but it's worth it. Why ? Because you'll lace the wheels once (I did mines over and over 3 times due to too short of spokes and the lbs having me taking out all the nipples from a misunderstanding on their side), but then it's done. However, you'll probably change tires a few times a year (I do it twice, from winter studs to summer rubber) and not having to deal with rim tape, having a tube in to press it down, finding the right width, risking a leak from the tape when installing tight tires on, etc is a wonderful thing

    I did use brass nipples in the end, mostly because they are more durable in the long run, less likely to corrode and I'd hate to have to mess again with inserting nipples because I rounded off an alloy one or it got corroded. I do ride all winter long and thus having to deal with calcium and salt, so I didn't wanted to take a chance.

    Here's the rim (26" 33mm wide) :

    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?-imageuploadedbytapatalk1396211222.589853.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleB28 View Post
    topless. that's what all mtb girls do. we go ride, get topless, have pillow fights in the woods, scissor, then ride home!

  46. #5546
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    Quote Originally Posted by David C View Post
    Yes it's a freaking PITA to lace up, but it's worth it. Why ? Because you'll lace the wheels once (I did mines over and over 3 times due to too short of spokes and the lbs having me taking out all the nipples from a misunderstanding on their side), but then it's done. However, you'll probably change tires a few times a year (I do it twice, from winter studs to summer rubber) and not having to deal with rim tape, having a tube in to press it down, finding the right width, risking a leak from the tape when installing tight tires on, etc is a wonderful thing
    To each his own, but I just don't get that. It took me 60 seconds to wrap a layer of Stan's tape around my LB rim. Then another few minutes to install a tire tubeless. And done.

    If I want to take the tire off I don't reapply the tape. I just pull the tire and install the new one.

    I don't see any savings of time or hassle getting a rim bed that's not drilled. I just see the PITA of fishing nipples through.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  47. #5547
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    Hey David C,

    Can you point me at any online guidance for nipple-fishing methods? I might give that a try on my next build.

    I've always preferred "native" tubeless UST style rims, in part because there is no tape, but also because the rim profile has typically meant much easier initial tire seating/sealing. Eliminating the tire side holes will mean no tape, but I suppose the tire seating/sealing won't be any different than a yellow taped rim.

  48. #5548
    transmitter~receiver
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    (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    To each his own, but I just don't get that. It took me 60 seconds to wrap a layer of Stan's tape around my LB rim. Then another few minutes to install a tire tubeless. And done.

    If I want to take the tire off I don't reapply the tape. I just pull the tire and install the new one.

    I don't see any savings of time or hassle getting a rim bed that's not drilled. I just see the PITA of fishing nipples through.
    100% agree.
    I tape once in ~5 minutes and done. Seals first time, every time. Not having to worry about tape width is a kind of hilarious reason, but like vik said, to each his own.
    The only sealing issues I've seen have been at the valve hole... nothing to do with tape.
    Doing it multiple times on one wheelset is commitment, that's for sure.
    What happens if you break a spoke?
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  49. #5549
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by InertiaMan View Post
    Can you point me at any online guidance for nipple-fishing methods?
    I recommend tequila and ice cubes

  50. #5550
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    Quote Originally Posted by chomxxo View Post
    Cool, you mean hookless? How is tubeless working for you and with what tires?
    Hookless sorry currently specialized fast tracks tubeless set up

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