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  1. #401
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    I was just thinking what about those little silica packets for the bigger holes and tears and rubber shavings for tiny holes

  2. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    Nitrogen vs air?
    The point for latex storage is to exclude oxygen, which will react with the latex. I believe the reaction is slow enough that in the dynamic environment of a tire, it won't be noticeable. The sealant will be used up plugging holes faster.

    Other benefits of nitrogen:

    Bigger molecule, leaks slower. Nitrogen molecules are about 3% bigger than oxygen (300 picometers vs 292). There isn't enough volume of other components of air to check on them.

    Nitrogen heats up slower (higher heat capacity - at constant pressure, nitrogen=1.04 kJ/kgK, oxygen=.919kJ/kgK, or 13% higher). If your mtb tires are getting hot enough for this to matter, you should seek a career in racing.

    Nitrogen is dry, air is wet. Hello - latex sealant contains water. Using dry nitrogen will just dry out your sealant a bit faster.
    I agree with all your advantages of nitrogen, although I am not sure how measurable vs. theoretical they would be. One other advantage is less degradation of the tire rubber by oxidation. For truck tires this is a big deal, and truck fleets are using nitrogen more and more.
    One thing I'm not sure of is oxygens role, if any, in coagulating latex. It will react, I agree, but rubber stays in aqueous solution by stabilization with high pH, like with ammonia. Lowering pH, adding a solvent, or letting the water evaporate are ways to get the latex to coagulate. In a tire, its the evaporation effect, or perhaps ammonia leaving the solution faster than the water, lowering the pH over time.
    I'm not sure if nitrogen in the tire would have any advantage over oxygen in preventing coagulation or drying out of the latex.

  3. #403
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    Paper fibres in homebrew?

    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy
    Some good info on sealant options I came across on velonews this morning: http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/...ealants_102346
    Thanks for this interesting link, CommuterBoy. My curiousity was piqued by Lennard Zinn's mention of using paper-fibres, to help plug leaks. So has anyone considered adding paper-pulp to a homebrew sealant mix? And if so, what sort of paper?
    Brisbane, AU

  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    I agree with all your advantages of nitrogen, although I am not sure how measurable vs. theoretical they would be. One other advantage is less degradation of the tire rubber by oxidation. For truck tires this is a big deal, and truck fleets are using nitrogen more and more.
    One thing I'm not sure of is oxygens role, if any, in coagulating latex. It will react, I agree, but rubber stays in aqueous solution by stabilization with high pH, like with ammonia. Lowering pH, adding a solvent, or letting the water evaporate are ways to get the latex to coagulate. In a tire, its the evaporation effect, or perhaps ammonia leaving the solution faster than the water, lowering the pH over time.
    I'm not sure if nitrogen in the tire would have any advantage over oxygen in preventing coagulation or drying out of the latex.
    Truck tires carry heavy loads, and run at highway speed - so they are at high temperatures for long periods of time. Taking oxygen and water out would certainly pay off, especially over the, uh, long haul.

    Quote Originally Posted by hootsmon
    Thanks for this interesting link, CommuterBoy. My curiousity was piqued by Lennard Zinn's mention of using paper-fibres, to help plug leaks. So has anyone considered adding paper-pulp to a homebrew sealant mix? And if so, what sort of paper?
    Currently our mix uses Slime for both fibers and chunks, but we keep coming back to the idea of improving/adding to the things that plug holes. If you tease a fiber out of some Slime, they look like cotton or poly-sumpin. I recall a sealant from my youth: Flat Pruf. It was brown and used cellulose fiber. It worked fine. If you look up paper making you find many projects reusing paper (like newsprint) for making your own paper - I found a site for more serious paper making supplies, and they would sell you a pound of cotton "linters" (4$/lb http://www.custompaper.com/papermaking_supplies.html ) for making better quality paper. This tempts me more than wood pulp. Issues would be fiber diameter, length, and strength.

    Someone else found glass microbeads:
    http://www.blockheadstamps.com/catal.../Glass-Marbles
    These are in the same class as the rubber chunks - I wonder about smooth spheres vs rough chunks. So here's links: http://www.gtrcrumbrubber.com/products.html or http://www.softsandrubber.com/ colors! $10/qrtrpint, but how much would you need? Tubeless Slime doesn't seem to have more than maybe teaspoon/scoop

    Several of us tried glitter, but found it not to really help much - and actually to cause bead sealing issues. "glitter is the herpes of arts and crafts". The plate shape had promise for sealing larger holes/rips, but didn't seem to line up well - going in edgewise vs the flat plate laying over the hole.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  5. #405
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    I am about to go tubeless for the first time, and already plunked out the dough for stans.
    So, I would like to not spend a bunch more money on this project, but on the other hand do not want to have dried out sealant in 3 months (which is when the biking season will really start around here).
    So, starting with Stans, what should I add? Windex, antifreeze? Those things are around the house. Slime? That's not too expensive, so I guess I could get some if it would help..

  6. #406
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    Curious if anyone has tried microballoons. Modelling and fiberglass supply places have a variety of potentially interesting products, for example: http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/Prod...s/fillers.html

  7. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    I am about to go tubeless for the first time, and already plunked out the dough for stans.
    So, I would like to not spend a bunch more money on this project, but on the other hand do not want to have dried out sealant in 3 months (which is when the biking season will really start around here).
    So, starting with Stans, what should I add? Windex, antifreeze? Those things are around the house. Slime? That's not too expensive, so I guess I could get some if it would help..
    I am one of a few who have added Slime (1/3) to Stans (2/3) and found that it weeps constantly around the bead and sidewalls, and I seemed to get bigger koosh boogers. I have gone back to Stans with better results. It does dry out, but I think this is why it works. I have a Stans injector and just add an ounce at about three months time, very easy and quick. When my current supply is gone, I will mix up some WSS and use it.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  8. #408
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    Just got a bunch of rim strips today, so I'll be giving WSSv2 a go.
    Maxxis Ignitor on Race Lite 29er (using Bontrager strip and stem)
    Michelin XC AT on Velocity VXC with Stans +4
    Weirwolf LT 2.55 on Flow (after I get my first wheelbuild attempt! done)

  9. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexkraemer
    Just got a bunch of rim strips today, so I'll be giving WSSv2 a go.
    Maxxis Ignitor on Race Lite 29er (using Bontrager strip and stem)
    Michelin XC AT on Velocity VXC with Stans +4
    Weirwolf LT 2.55 on Flow (after I get my first wheelbuild attempt! done)
    Just an FYI, I'm running the Michelin XC AT 29er on Stans Flow wheels and mixed a variation of WSS, but with LESS anti-freeze than Wade uses. It took about 2 weeks for air loss to significantly slow down, and anti-freeze is still bubbling out of the sidewalls 4 weeks after installing these tires/ adding the sealant.

    Compared to Kenda SB8s that sealed up in 2 days and sidewall leaks stopped completely in 4 days, the Michelins seem to have much more porus sidewalls.

    This is my mix BTW:

    20 oz Slime tubeless
    12 oz Latex Mold Builder
    8 oz WSS mix. (1.6 oz latex, 1.6 oz Slime, 1.6 oz Antifreeze, 3.2 oz water).

    I'm not sure why my anti-freeze is still weeping from the sidewalls when there's hardly any in the mix? Does Slime Tubeless contain a lot of anti-freeze?

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    just mixed up my first ever batch of tubeless brew. i used:

    @1 part latex mold builder
    @1 part water
    @1part slime auto
    @ 1 part or less propylene glycol antifreeze(sierra brand).

    i live in a house with a lot of dogs who will lick anything once, so ethylene glycol in something that could end up all over the place was not an option.

    as per someones instructions earlier, i mixed the latex, water and slime first, then added the PG antifreeze, and didn't notice any lumping or latex hardening. it's about light milkshake consistancy. i started out trying to measure each part with a water bottle, but gave up after adding the latex and just kind of eyeballed it.

    aired up a tubeless downhill tire on a non-tubeless trials rim with stock rim strip and a valve stem cut out of an old tube. aired right up and is holding so far. hasn't been long though. i'll update more tomorrow.

    For what it's worth, I just removed this tire from the rim yesterday for the first time since initially airing it up. I had never added air at all since that first time. There was still some pressure in it, but not much. The mixture was still liquid and there were no boogers, except for the little solidified bits around the bead. The original mixture is still the same consistency as the day I mixed it in it's container in my unheated, detached garage. Temps have been as high as 80F in the summer, and down to -20ishF this winter.

    So, that's ten months in one tire, and no signs of degradation. If you live in a hotter or more humid climate you're results may vary.

  11. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    For what it's worth, I just removed this tire from the rim yesterday for the first time since initially airing it up. I had never added air at all since that first time. There was still some pressure in it, but not much. The mixture was still liquid and there were no boogers, except for the little solidified bits around the bead. The original mixture is still the same consistency as the day I mixed it in it's container in my unheated, detached garage. Temps have been as high as 80F in the summer, and down to -20ishF this winter.

    So, that's ten months in one tire, and no signs of degradation. If you live in a hotter or more humid climate you're results may vary.
    I recently switched my formula to use Sierra as well (from windshield washer fluid that contained methanol and ethylene glycol)...just trying to do my part

  12. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by isleblue65
    It took about 2 weeks for air loss to significantly slow down, and anti-freeze is still bubbling out of the sidewalls 4 weeks after installing these tires/ adding the sealant.

    Compared to Kenda SB8s that sealed up in 2 days and sidewall leaks stopped completely in 4 days, the Michelins seem to have much more porus sidewalls.
    Did you lay them down and flip them during that process? I had a Prowler that took three days of shaking, flipping twice a day, and laying flat to finally seal. My Michelin on an Arch sealed in 30 minutes per side and has been air tight for four months now. There can be huge differences in the same tire from batch to batch.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  13. #413
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    There is variation in Prowlers. Both mine came one my Niner and my rear continues to weep a little green from time to time and my front never does. I used exactly the same procedure, amount, etc. except that I have added a little more sealant to the rear over time because of the leakage.

  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    Did you lay them down and flip them during that process? I had a Prowler that took three days of shaking, flipping twice a day, and laying flat to finally seal. My Michelin on an Arch sealed in 30 minutes per side and has been air tight for four months now. There can be huge differences in the same tire from batch to batch.
    I did the shake and rotate followed by laying them down for a night and a day, flipping them over intermittently 3 to 4 times during that period. That's all, then I installed them. The air loss is now minimal, so I just don't worry about the continued green weeping. Also, the warmest temperature I've been riding in since installing the Michelins is 18 degrees F, and average temperature is about 10 degrees. When I first set up the Kenda Small Block 8s, the temps were in the 50s. I don't know if this could contribute to the slime not coating the tires, filling the weep holes and drying? I guess summer time will be the test.

  15. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by isleblue65
    Just an FYI, I'm running the Michelin XC AT 29er on Stans Flow wheels and mixed a variation of WSS, but with LESS anti-freeze than Wade uses. It took about 2 weeks for air loss to significantly slow down, and anti-freeze is still bubbling out of the sidewalls 4 weeks after installing these tires/ adding the sealant.

    Compared to Kenda SB8s that sealed up in 2 days and sidewall leaks stopped completely in 4 days, the Michelins seem to have much more porus sidewalls.

    This is my mix BTW:

    20 oz Slime tubeless
    12 oz Latex Mold Builder
    8 oz WSS mix. (1.6 oz latex, 1.6 oz Slime, 1.6 oz Antifreeze, 3.2 oz water).

    I'm not sure why my anti-freeze is still weeping from the sidewalls when there's hardly any in the mix? Does Slime Tubeless contain a lot of anti-freeze?
    Thanks for the info. I have a small bottle of stans that I may use for that wheel and use the WSSv2 for the rest.

  16. #416
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    The michellin sealed up fine,what didn't seal up was the +4 Stans strip. It leaked right where the strip met the valve hole. I fought with it for about 4 attempts before it stopped hissing at me. I love my VXC rim, but that was a royal pain with the tubeless.

  17. #417
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    Here's a commercial formula

    This is just FYI. Ran across Ride-On tire sealant ( http://www.ride-on.com )on a moto forum - comparable to Slime. They've got an old timey MSDS
    ( http://www.ride-on.com/pdf/MSDS_4-08-02.pdf ) that gives their proportions:

    Ingredient(s) CAS Number % (by weight)
    Ethylene Glycol 107-21-1 35–55
    Water 7732-18-5 45-65
    Fibers and fillers (no asbestos, ceramics, or glass) Proprietary 3-6
    Non-heavy metal based corrosion inhibitors Proprietary 1.5-4
    Balance other ingredients that are either:
    A) Not classified by the OSHA Communication Standard to be Hazardous, or
    B) Present in concentrations less than 1% (less than .1% for carcinogens) in this product
    less than 1%

    So you've got your watered down antifreeze, with a whopping 3-6% by weight chunkulation. And while I will say that fibers and such are light, that don't seem like much.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  18. #418
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    After studying this great thread, and due to dificulties in getting supplies, I decided to make a brew using what I could get online: 1 part Stans, and 1 Part Slime (for UST tires)

    My main concern with using Stans on its own was with it drying out quickly (just in the middle of an Australia summer, so averaging 30 - 32 degress C here at the moment)

    I set it up about a month ago and had been working fine, however last week I noticed that when I turned the wheel about a 1/4 turn, I could hear something moving inside.

    Then when I went on a particularly rocky ride yesterday, I got a 5mm tear in my sidewall, and the tire went straight down without any sealant trying to block the hole. I took the wheel off and tried re-inflating the tire and positioned it so that sealant was covering the hole. This didn't work, with just sealant spitting out.

    So I went to put a tube in, and pulled out a big booger from inside the tire. There still seemed to be a mix of liquid sealant in there, just no chunks left to fill the hole.

    So just wondering if anyone can explain why this happened after such a short time? It seems like this mix isn't going to work for me, so I may just use Stans on its own, and keep the slime until I can find some liquid latex. From what I've heard, Stans seems to last about 3 months over here, before drying out.

    Does anyone have any suggestion as to how to get Stans to last any longer (I bought 16oz of it so I'll be using it for a while! )

    Thanks in advance.

  19. #419
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    If you used the Stans/ Slime mix and this is sealing punctures fine, with the only problem being it dries out too fast, you could try adding some water or water with a touch of Ethyl Glycol. I would have thought that the Glycol already in the Slime would prolong the life of the mix, but since it didn't last as long as you wanted, a bit more may help. Liquid latex would help to seal punctures, but won't do much for the drying out issue.

  20. #420
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    I'm also not too happy with the Stan's drying issue. How does straight slime tubeless work?

  21. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    I'm also not too happy with the Stan's drying issue. How does straight slime tubeless work?
    If it does not dry, it will not seal!

    It dries when it hits the air, there is air in the tire, and the tires are porous, so some liquid is lost. Just give it an ounce or two of new fluid every 2-4 months depending on the heat/humidity of your climate. If you use the NoTubes injector, it is simple; it takes me five minutes to do seven wheels.

    My experience with Slime products is not near as good as Stans, but about 10 times messier when it comes out. Ugh. I will deal with the koosh balls and drying out for the ease of use and superior sealing, in my experience.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  22. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcbarny
    Does anyone have any suggestion as to how to get Stans to last any longer (I bought 16oz of it so I'll be using it for a while! )

    Thanks in advance.
    Sorry, no real help. Several other folks have found that mixing Stan's and Slime boogers things up quickly. You're probably better off running straight Stan's than mixing it.

    Since you can get Slime - can you get the new latex-mix version: Slime Pro? It costs more than Stan's, but if it lasts longer that's ok. No one has reported using it, so YMMV.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  23. #423
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    Someone suggested ammonia water to make stans last longer (windex?). This makes sense since ammonia is what stabilizes latex (prevents coagulation), but that would also dilute the mix.

  24. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by isleblue65
    If you used the Stans/ Slime mix and this is sealing punctures fine, with the only problem being it dries out too fast, you could try adding some water or water with a touch of Ethyl Glycol. I would have thought that the Glycol already in the Slime would prolong the life of the mix, but since it didn't last as long as you wanted, a bit more may help. Liquid latex would help to seal punctures, but won't do much for the drying out issue.
    It didn't last long enough for me to see if it actually sealed a puncture. We don't get Goat Heads or anything else like that in Brisbane, The main cause of tire failure is sidewall tear. I had my Maxxis Crossmark on for just 4 weeks before it tore.

  25. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcbarny
    It didn't last long enough for me to see if it actually sealed a puncture. We don't get Goat Heads or anything else like that in Brisbane, The main cause of tire failure is sidewall tear. I had my Maxxis Crossmark on for just 4 weeks before it tore.
    G'day xcbarny,
    Sorry to hear about your tyre failure. BTW, I'm in Brisbane too, and I know what you're saying about Stan's (and similar) sealants drying out rapidly in our summer heat. While I can't help with your Stan's brew, you're more than welcome to try out a sample of WSS homebrew sealant. My WSS is made from affordable, non-toxic, locally available supplies, and I'm pretty happy with its performance so far. Though I'm still 'finessing' the water-content a bit, to make it last a little longer. Just let me know if you're interested.
    Brisbane, AU

  26. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by hootsmon
    G'day xcbarny,
    Sorry to hear about your tyre failure. BTW, I'm in Brisbane too, and I know what you're saying about Stan's (and similar) sealants drying out rapidly in our summer heat. While I can't help with your Stan's brew, you're more than welcome to try out a sample of WSS homebrew sealant. My WSS is made from affordable, non-toxic, locally available supplies, and I'm pretty happy with its performance so far. Though I'm still 'finessing' the water-content a bit, to make it last a little longer. Just let me know if you're interested.
    You could try adding some liquid latex as well. As Smilinsteve says, there is quite a bit of ammonia in L.L., and this might help make Stans last a bit longer. The problem I'm having is quite the opposite as yours. My modified WSS is bubbling green anti-freeze from the sidewalls. Of course I've been riding in temps down to -20 deg C on snow, so summer will be the real test!

    By the way, I bought my '65 Cooper S from a guy in Brisbane (Pacific Pines actually) and shipped it over. I could tell by how heat cracked the interior was when I got it that the Gold Coast is a HOT place!



    I run 29s on my bike and 10s on the Mini.

  27. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by hootsmon
    G'day xcbarny,
    Sorry to hear about your tyre failure. BTW, I'm in Brisbane too, and I know what you're saying about Stan's (and similar) sealants drying out rapidly in our summer heat. While I can't help with your Stan's brew, you're more than welcome to try out a sample of WSS homebrew sealant. My WSS is made from affordable, non-toxic, locally available supplies, and I'm pretty happy with its performance so far. Though I'm still 'finessing' the water-content a bit, to make it last a little longer. Just let me know if you're interested.
    Thanks for the offer Hootsmon. I bought a load of Stans sealant, so I guess I wanted to try to get that to work a bit better for me. I may take you up on your offer when I use up my supplies.

    So how long are you getting out of your homebrew mix?

    I'm also running the Supercheap Liquid patch in my front tire. Have you tried this? It seams reasonable priced, and at least its available locally. For me it seems to be seeping from the bead more than with the Stans / Slime setup, maybe this suggests that it doesn't dry up as quickly? And may suggest that it doesn't fix punctures as quickly, but I haven't had a puncture to test this yet.

    My next test is to run a mix of Stans and Liquid patch, will keep you posted on this.

    I'd be interested to know where you got your supplies from? Seems like it would be good to get a group together to chip in for the products since it makes quite a bit.

  28. #428
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    BTW - hadn't been on my bike since November or so. Just brought it out today. Lots of seepage. Makes me think the stuffs still wet in there.

    Sweet. Gotta change my valve stem, so I'll pop them open then and see what's inside.
    I'll try to post pics. Its probably been 6+ months sealed in Conti MKs (9er).
    The wheels on my bike go 'round and 'round

  29. #429
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    So I guess I should have read a bit more of this post, to find the replies from people who found the Stans/ Slime mix to dry out quickly.

    Seems to me that when the sealant dries out, it is because it is losing its solvent, and not because it is losing any Latex or Chunks (as you would see this escaping)

    Hence it would appear that rather than topping up with more sealant (Stans or homebrew etc.), just some more solvent (as Isleblue65 and Smilinsteve suggested) like water or ammonia windex?)

    Any thoughts on this? would adding more solvent help dilute the sealant that has gone off, and so make it reusable?

  30. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by isleblue65
    You could try adding some liquid latex as well. As Smilinsteve says, there is quite a bit of ammonia in L.L., and this might help make Stans last a bit longer. The problem I'm having is quite the opposite as yours. My modified WSS is bubbling green anti-freeze from the sidewalls. Of course I've been riding in temps down to -20 deg C on snow, so summer will be the real test!

    By the way, I bought my '65 Cooper S from a guy in Brisbane (Pacific Pines actually) and shipped it over. I could tell by how heat cracked the interior was when I got it that the Gold Coast is a HOT place!



    I run 29s on my bike and 10s on the Mini.
    Nice Cooper

  31. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcbarny
    Hence it would appear that rather than topping up with more sealant (Stans or homebrew etc.), just some more solvent (as Isleblue65 and Smilinsteve suggested) like water or ammonia windex?)

    Any thoughts on this? would adding more solvent help dilute the sealant that has gone off, and so make it reusable?
    My guess is that just adding solvent to the tire would not adequately mix the sealant and new liquid solvent. You would have separation of the two and the solvent would evaporate off or weep from the bead/ sidewalls and disappear. I think you would be better off just adding pre-mixed Stans/ Slime/ Latex/ Ammonia/ Windex (whatever your mix is) via syringe through the valve stem every few weeks, and just plan on removing your tire at the end of the season to clean out the globby muck that you've accumulated.

    You guys would be a great testing ground for these theories however (adding only the solvent vs complete sealant/ solvent mix), and I'd be curious to know your results!

    Once summer is here I hope that my mix stops weeping and seals better, but I won't know that for a while. I am going to work on a 'Winter Brew' sealant for next year to eliminate the green anti-freeze stains on my basement floor where the bike sits.

    Quote Originally Posted by xcbarny
    Nice Cooper
    Thanks, it's a zippy little go-cart, and fun driving on the right side!

  32. #432
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    Aussie WSS supplies

    Quote Originally Posted by xcbarny
    So how long are you getting out of your homebrew mix?
    Dunno exactly :-) You see, ever since discovering WSS I've been gleefully swapping tyres at whim, according to whether I'm commuting, bush-bashing or whatever. So the truthful answer is 'just long enough', since although my WSS brew does get a bit tacky sometimes, I haven't actually had it dry out on me (yet). This also explains why I'm experimenting with adding a little extra water.

    Quote Originally Posted by xcbarny
    I'm also running the Supercheap Liquid patch in my front tire. Have you tried this?
    Yes, in fact this stuff is a key locally-made ingredient in my adapted WSS recipe. Incidentally, I've noticed Repco stores selling what appears to be virtually the same product, but marketed in a "Slime Tubeless" bottle instead. Also, I haven't got around to trying this sealant 'standalone' yet, however I have heard some good reports. So keep us posted!

    Quote Originally Posted by xcbarny
    I'd be interested to know where you got your supplies from? Seems like it would be good to get a group together to chip in for the products since it makes quite a bit.
    Yes, that's a good suggestion. It turns out that WSS ingredients are fairly cheap, and easily obtainable here in Brisbane (and I assume elsewhere in Oz). So here goes:

    Brisbane, AU

  33. #433
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    ammonia isn't solvent

    Quote Originally Posted by xcbarny
    So I guess I should have read a bit more of this post, to find the replies from people who found the Stans/ Slime mix to dry out quickly.

    Seems to me that when the sealant dries out, it is because it is losing its solvent, and not because it is losing any Latex or Chunks (as you would see this escaping)

    Hence it would appear that rather than topping up with more sealant (Stans or homebrew etc.), just some more solvent (as Isleblue65 and Smilinsteve suggested) like water or ammonia windex?)

    Any thoughts on this? would adding more solvent help dilute the sealant that has gone off, and so make it reusable?
    Ammonia stabilizes latex rubber. The rubber stays in a water suspension in little spherical particles (look up the term "micelle" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micelle) stabilized by the high pH that the ammonia provides. As ammonia leaves the solution, the pH drops. Consequently, the rubber molecules are no longer isolated from each other in their little spherical particles, and bond with each other, forming coagulated natural rubber. Once this happens, adding ammonia will do nothing. The bonds are formed and the rubber will not form a latex liquid any longer.

  34. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by hootsmon
    Yes, in fact this stuff is a key locally-made ingredient in my adapted WSS recipe. Incidentally, I've noticed Repco stores selling what appears to be virtually the same product, but marketed in a "Slime Tubeless" bottle instead. Also, I haven't got around to trying this sealant 'standalone' yet, however I have heard some good reports. So keep us posted!

    Yes, that's a good suggestion. It turns out that WSS ingredients are fairly cheap, and easily obtainable here in Brisbane (and I assume elsewhere in Oz). So here goes:

    Hey Hootsmon

    When I got my Stans kit, I also got a bottle of the Slime sealant for UST tires. This appears to be similar to the Supercheap Liquid patch, though I think its a bit more viscous. Maybe the Liquid patch has more solvent in it to make it last longer here?

    Thanks for the list of your local products, the PG looks quite expensive, do they do it in smaller containers? I like the fact that it has corrosion inhibitors though.

    Good to hear that you're getting a usable life out of your mix. I may have been a bit hasty to say how bad mine was, I think the cut I got wouldn't have been sealed, even if my mix was fresh. I was very surprised by the size of the 'booger' I pulled out after just a couple of weeks though!

  35. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    Ammonia stabilizes latex rubber. The rubber stays in a water suspension in little spherical particles (look up the term "micelle" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micelle) stabilized by the high pH that the ammonia provides. As ammonia leaves the solution, the pH drops. Consequently, the rubber molecules are no longer isolated from each other in their little spherical particles, and bond with each other, forming coagulated natural rubber. Once this happens, adding ammonia will do nothing. The bonds are formed and the rubber will not form a latex liquid any longer.
    Thanks for the Chemistry lesson Smilinsteve

    That all makes sense. And I guess is the main reason why WSS increases the quantities of solvents at the start.

    So can anyone confirm for me, since I can easily and cheaply get a bottle of windex, can I use this in place of the PG / EG, and mix this in with my slime / stans and water?

  36. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    The original idea behind WWF was to add ammonia, since that is what is used to keep the latex liquid. Here's a qoute:"ammonia (NH3) will be added to prevent the latex from coagulating. The two types of ammonia that can be used are 1) Concentrated Latex High ammonia: HA which uses 0.7% ammonia to rubber's weight 2) Concentrated Latex Low ammonia: LA which uses 0.2% ammonia to rubber's weight as well as other chemicals in order to store the latex for future use or to undergo other manufacturing process"

    But the funny thing is, when you check out the ingredients in most WWF (may need to find the MSDS or material safety data sheet) - its just soapy water and blue color, with maybe some methyl alcohol! Adding soap to sealant is probably a bad idea since soap is about separating things, not gluing them together.

    Ammonia is kinda like a stronger version of bleach, and I think that the problems that have happened in the past with tires deteriorating due to sealant is about the ammonia.
    As a note, every time I've pulled a tire off due to sealant dryout, its been completely dry. I've never had a case where the latex was all gone, but there was water/antifreeze left (clear green instead of milky). This implies to me that I don't need to add more ammonia to keep the latex liquid.

    If I was going to try Ammonia, I would get some clear ammonia - from the cleaning supplies section. Its basically just water with ammonia (MSDS says a whopping 2-3%!)- so would be a good replacement for the water in my recipe. I note that latex mold builder is listed as 1% ammonia by weight, so this should significantly raise the ammonia content.

    If you try ammonia, come back and let us know how it worked. I suspect that you would have to do one tire with water and the other with clear ammonia to tell a difference.
    This quote from Wadester in post 78 might help you with your decision to add ammonia. Note that windex or other windshield wiper type fluids might not even have ammonia in them. I would use a plain ammonia water solution in place of some of the straight water, not in place of the eg.

  37. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcbarny
    When I got my Stans kit, I also got a bottle of the Slime sealant for UST tires. This appears to be similar to the Supercheap Liquid patch, though I think its a bit more viscous. Maybe the Liquid patch has more solvent in it to make it last longer here?
    Quote Originally Posted by xcbarny
    Thanks for the list of your local products, the PG looks quite expensive, do they do it in smaller containers? I like the fact that it has corrosion inhibitors though.
    As far as I know, I'm using pure, food-grade PG, and I wasn't aware it contained any corrosion inhibitors. I just took along a 2-litre bottle to Andale, and the folks there cheerfully filled it with PG for a very reasonable price. In fact 2L is probably more PG than I'll ever need, so let me know if you need some.
    Last edited by hootsmon; 02-17-2010 at 07:24 PM.
    Brisbane, AU

  38. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by hootsmon
    As far as I know, I'm using pure, food-grade PG, and I wasn't aware it contained any corrosion inhibitors. I just took along a 2-litre bottle to Andale, and the folks there cheerfully filled it with PG for a very resonable price.
    In fact 2L is probably more PG than I'll ever need, so let me know if you need some.
    [/QUOTE]

    Ah that's good. I just followed your link and found this:

    http://www.andale.com.au/productList...nt&cat=Glycol+

    Thought it looked a bit pricey, but if its the same stuff that they gave you, then looks like is has the corrosion inhibitors in it.

  39. #439
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    "Propylene Glycol oxidizes when exposed to air and heat. When this occurs, organic acids are formed viz. Glycolic acid, Glyoxalic acid, Formic acid, Carbonic acid & Oxalic acid. If not properly inhibited, this fluid can be very corrosive."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifreeze
    Found this from page one of the thread. If PG oxidizes to form acids, then that is absolutely the last thing you would want to mix with stans or any latex product. Latex will coagulate when the pH drops.

  40. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    Found this from page one of the thread. "Propylene Glycol oxidizes when exposed to air and heat. When this occurs, organic acids are formed viz. Glycolic acid, Glyoxalic acid, Formic acid, Carbonic acid & Oxalic acid. If not properly inhibited, this fluid can be very corrosive."
    If PG oxidizes to form acids, then that is absolutely the last thing you would want to mix with stans or any latex product. Latex will coagulate when the pH drops.
    I'm thinking that we don't have the necessary heat in our application, but I will check with the chemists to see what the pH change rate is at "ambient" temperature - which can be up to 110F/43C around here.

    I like that the beer suppliers PG is corrosion inhibited, and I will bet that the PG in Slime and other tire sealants is as well - so the 1 latex/2 Slime/2 water mix shouldn't have any corrosion issues.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  41. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcbarny
    Ah that's good. I just followed your link and found this:

    http://www.andale.com.au/productList...nt&cat=Glycol+

    Thought it looked a bit pricey, but if its the same stuff that they gave you, then looks like is has the corrosion inhibitors in it.
    Yep, that PG is the exact stuff I'm using, and fortunately Andale were happy to sell it in smallish quantities as well (like 2 litres or so), which is a lot cheaper!

    BTW, this stuff is pure, so it needs to be diluted somewhat, before mixing with latex. Otherwise, mixing pure PG and latex together results in a nice bouncy rubber-ball. Great fun, but no use as a tyre sealant.
    Brisbane, AU

  42. #442
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    Hope

    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    Since 5/04 I been running:
    1 part Latex mold builder
    1 part Slime tubeless
    1 part cheap antifreeze
    2 parts water

    Is this the accepted best home brew recipe?

  43. #443
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wadester
    Since 5/04 I been running:
    1 part Latex mold builder
    1 part Slime tubeless
    1 part cheap antifreeze
    2 parts water

    Quote Originally Posted by wpuk
    Is this the accepted best home brew recipe?
    Most accepted, longest track record - yes. Best? Read the whole thread - YMMV.

    I'm now running:
    1 part Latex mold builder
    2 parts Slime tubeless
    2 parts water

    But its only been 6 months or so - talk to me next summer about this recipe
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  44. #444
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    OK - I bought everything and I'm gonna try Wadesters latest recipe. I found the latex mold builder at Hobby Lobby, and I found that if you Google "hobby lobby coupon", you'll find a 40% off one you can print and use. Everything else, I found at Walmart.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Best Tubeless Brew?-dsc03544.jpg  


  45. #445
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    ^^ I'm in as well... I was about to pick up a bottle of stans, but I went next door to Michael's and bought the mold builder instead... need to get some slime and maybe borrow some glitter from my daughter...but I'll be rocking the WSS by this weekend. I think I'm going with the proven antifreeze mix.

    Latex + water + slime, THEN antifreeze, right?
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  46. #446
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    ...Had an idea for a chunkulatory addative: Pencil sharpener shavings. Anyone? Good idea? Bad idea? My sharpener seems to create quite a variety of shapes and sizes.
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    Timeout for a question

    I am going to go to tubeless this year and have been reading this thread faithfully. I appreciate the ingenuity.

    But -- and I don't mean to sound like an ar$ehle -- don't you think that if there was a way to make Stan's better just by adding x (or x and y), they would have done it? For all the tests forum posters have conducted, haven't the guys in the business done hundreds more and settled on the final product that's on the shelf?

    Maybe these deviations are geographically appropriate -- like, maybe some areas want it to last all season and are willing to give up the fast-sealing properties. Others who deal with thorns, want the sealing properties and don't mind changing the solution every few months

    I have to think that with enough R&D, the sealant companies have arrived at the best compromise, and these homebrews just serve to accentuate one of the benefits of sealant, at the cost of another.

    But I could be talking out of my ar$e.

  48. #448
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    The biggest advantage I'm seeing with homebrew is the longevity of the mix. I don't see what I'm giving up if I make something that seals as well as the big company stuff, but lasts 5 times as long.
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  49. #449
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    Slime is formulated for motor vehicle tires where temperatures are much higher. Also, I am sure they make many other considerations in their formulation that are not necessarily the best for our use. Stan's works great, but dries out too fast for most people. This works well for Stans because you have to keep buying new sealant every 3 months or so.

    I am far happier with the home-brew mixes than I was with either Stans or Slime before. In fact, my previous method was 50/50 Stans and Slime.

    I am currently favoring eliminating the anti-freeze from future batches.

  50. #450
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    I just found out that Slime tubes have removeable cores! And you can pick them up anywhere for $5-6!

  51. #451
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    Been using Wadster's original mix for over 2 years now on a 29er WWLT/Exiwolf combo using the ghetto tubeless on my 29'er. Tires were always weeping. Just mounted a new WWLT and used a paintbrush to put a thin coat of homebrew on inside of the tire and let it dry for a couple of days before mounting it up. Been a month now and no weeping.

  52. #452
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    Just bought a fixer upper, 2002 VW Jetta TDI. Previous owner must have lived in a construction zone, as the LF tire had a slow leak. I marked the nail spot, with a yellow line and squirted in 6 oz of 1 part Slime, 1 Part Stans, and 1 part water to dilute the mix and allow it to flow and balance a bit better. Pulled the nail, rolled it bottom side down and pffft! Sealed! The next morning, I got some green slinging around inside my wheels well. Found another nail, covered in green slime. Pulled it and drove slowly, sealing it up. Air pressure had dropped from 34 psi in the tire to 31. Pumped it back up to 34. Thought it wise to roll the window down and listen for any more pfffts! of sealant doing it's job, when I heard a ticking sound with every rotation. On the inside of the tire, where it was hard to get at, was a drywall screw, headless and ground off, from all the road contact. Pulled that out, it was a bit longer to seal that one, but it's fully sealed now. I figure I've lost 1/2 the sealant in there, doing it's job, sealing 3 nail/screw holes. Much more cost effective than taking the car in to have all those patches installed. This very well may make Road Hazard Fee of $15 a tire outdated on each new tire purchase.

  53. #453
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    ^^ Sweet. I'll be putting the secret sauce in my dirt bike and quad tires too...


    I like the brush-on application idea prior to installing the tires. How long do you have to wait? I'm mixing up the sauce tonight (thursday) and want to go riding Saturday. is 24 hours enough for a thin coat of original WSS to dry out in the open air?

    (this thread has inspired me to go tubeless, by the way...never done it before. Set up my Speed Discs with gorilla tape last night, and entering the mad scientist realm of mixing the sauce tonight...)
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    It is not my realm...
    I just help out Wade every now and again...

  55. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy
    ^^ Sweet. I'll be putting the secret sauce in my dirt bike and quad tires too...


    I like the brush-on application idea prior to installing the tires. How long do you have to wait? I'm mixing up the sauce tonight (thursday) and want to go riding Saturday. is 24 hours enough for a thin coat of original WSS to dry out in the open air?

    (this thread has inspired me to go tubeless, by the way...never done it before. Set up my Speed Discs with gorilla tape last night, and entering the mad scientist realm of mixing the sauce tonight...)
    I waited a couple of days, but of course I live in Florida- It dry's pretty quick out in the sun with a THIN coat.

  56. #456
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    Maybe I'll bust out the wife's hair dryer and speed things up...
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  57. #457
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    OK I have just mixed my first batch of WSS.

    *disclaimer: this is my first tubeless experience. I know nothing.

    I mixed up this formula:
    16 oz mold builder
    16 oz slime
    32 oz water
    16 oz EG antifreeze

    and my first reaction was "wow, this stuff is thin". It was so liquidy that I added the rest of the Slime that I had bought (I got the 24 oz bottle, so another 8 ounces) in the hopes of thickening it up. But then I remembered all the good things I've heard about Stans and how watery it looks in the Stans videos.

    So not being one for patience, I went ahead and threw some in my first ever set of ghetto tubeless wheels. I'm dealing with brand new Michelin AT tires. So far so good...it's been a half an hour and I've flipped them once... very little seepage at the bead...zero seepage at the sidewall. I'm just worried about how watery this mix seemed to me. Is it supposed to be pretty runny? It appears that the wheels are holding air, so it must be doing something. Can anyone describe in vivid detail how runny the sauce should be?


    A note to future shoppers: I saw three kinds of slime at walmart... "Tube Sealant", the traditional bike one, although it had particles of rubber in it; "Tire Sealant", the traditional tubeless tire sealant with the rubber particles in it; and "*Wheel Sensor Safe* Tire Sealant"...new formula. It was very noticeably thinner than the traditional "Tire Sealant", designed to flow through auto wheel pressure sensors without gumming things up. Sounds like a watered down version to me. Buyer beware.
    I also noted that the 'tube sealant' was thicker than the tubeless 'tire sealant'. I almost bought it because it was thicker, but decided to stick with the recipe...then I was bummed because of how watery mine seemed....
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  58. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy
    Can anyone describe in vivid detail how runny the sauce should be?
    Like milk only a little thicker, not like buttermilk, NOT like sour cream, maybe like kefir, but mostly like milk.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  59. #459
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    I actually had to thin some of mine out test because it was way too thick. I thinned it to the point that I could hear it swishing in the tire and it sealed instantly
    SS Rigid =
    Quote Originally Posted by gjenkins@
    There is no distraction. You only hear the sound of your breath and the crunch of the wheels across the dirt.

  60. #460
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    Beautiful, thanks. Did I gum it up too much by adding another 1/2 part of Slime? I guess the answer to that is no, since the tires are holding air nicely this morning...I did the spin/shake routine, laid them on boxes (I'm a rebel, everyone else uses a bucket) and flipped them once before bed... 8 hours later no seepage, no squeeze-test noticable loss of pressure.

    Will it be slower to seal a hole if it's a little thicker? If milk is a 1 and egg nog is a 10, I'd describe mine as a 7.
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  61. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy
    Beautiful, thanks. Did I gum it up too much by adding another 1/2 part of Slime? I guess the answer to that is no, since the tires are holding air nicely this morning...I did the spin/shake routine, laid them on boxes (I'm a rebel, everyone else uses a bucket) and flipped them once before bed... 8 hours later no seepage, no squeeze-test noticable loss of pressure.

    Will it be slower to seal a hole if it's a little thicker? If milk is a 1 and egg nog is a 10, I'd describe mine as a 7.
    You have to remember that the newest variation recipe replaces the antifreeze with another measure of slime, so your mix is in that direction.

    Also, if you think your mix is too thin - just add a wad of dryer lint! It thickens it up quite a bit.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  62. #462
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    Right on, thanks. Nothing like affirming words from the Slime Lord himself. I hate to say it before I have any riding experience with the stuff, but I think I'm a convert
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  63. #463
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    Great Thread.

    I just wondered if anyone else had come across this.

    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Ge...nt/5360015202/

    I used this link because it has the best (biggest) picture of the product which I think is quite new, as I don't remember seeing it before and there dosent seem to be any pro reviews of it on the web.

    You can clearly see the chunkaltion in the picture and they claim it will last up to 2 years in your tires. Is this commercial WSS?

    Anyone know any more about it

    Chris.

  64. #464
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    That looks like it might just be a similar product to Slime Tubeless...dunno.




    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Scientist
    It is not my realm...
    I just help out Wade every now and again...
    That was funny, by the way.
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    Thx Wade

    Trying out your V5 brew. 26" Racing Ralphs, the older ones before they switched tread pattern, so tire has been ridden for races and some training for a couple years.

    First tire sealed up no problem. Was very easy, considering this was my first time with any sort of tubeless.

    2nd one I had the tire on, and seemed to hold the bead. Went to put the WSS in, and tried to pump it back up. No go. Went to run sponge around and notice man, the bmx tube had moved off of one side. For the next 2 hours I tried to get that bmx tube on properly. It just kept moving around. I'd get it all centered, than it would move. Just seemed too tight kind of thing. Taped it down on one side.

    Bang! first try got everything on. Slowly peeled the tape off to see if it was the tape holding the seal or the tube. Amazingly the tube can just barely be seen along 1 edge. Better than I could've cut it. I'll be more careful watching this one wheel though.

    Well report back after more testing. But the WSS worked perfectly, everything sealed up great, no bubbles with soap on at all! In fact there was a tiny prick in my rear that was sealed before I even got to the soap. Just noticed a green section on the sidewall!
    Great stuff !!
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  66. #466
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    Just Stans

    What is the advantage to making a concoction to do what Stans does so well? Price?
    Stans has always worked perfect and when I run out, I'll give the new Slime pro a try. To reapply Stans after three months is not that big a deal considering the benefits.

  67. #467
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    You just answered your own question. Not only is 3 months too short a time to last, but Stans is not cheap especially compared to homebrew. Also, buying more Stans every 3 months is even more expensive. Stans works great, no question

    Anecdotal data. I am in Baltimore this week and had a small hole in the sidewall. My sealant had been in way over 6 months-maybe 9, and would not seal it so I went to a bike shop (Trek Dealer). The put almost an entire bottle of Bontragger sealant in and it didn't even slow the leak down. I found a bottle of Stans on their shelf and they put 2 scoops of Stans in and the hole plugged immediately. The mechanic (also the owner of 2 shops in Baltimore area) said that was a pretty convincing demonstration. So like I say Stans works; but homebrew works probably just as well and is way cheaper. I have 7 tubeless 29er wheels and replacing Stan's every 3 months on all those wheels would be expensive and time consuming.

  68. #468
    master blaster
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    so ive got a few bottles of this stuff http://www.slime.com/product/781/(10...-Sealant-.html and im thinking about going tubeless. i have stans arch rims and stans rimstips and wtb prowler sl tires in a 2.10.
    everything should work ok right?
    Quote Originally Posted by ISuckAtRiding View Post
    The dude is like 120lbs, tops lol he can run any tires he wants without issues, i'm sure.

  69. #469
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    Everything should work. One of my wheelsets is this exact setup:Arch's, Prowlers, Stans tape. I will say there seems to be if difference in quality of Prowler SL's though. My front has always been fine but my rear has constantly had little dots of green on the sidewall. This is the only tire out of 7 that has had this problem and it is not real bad, just annoying. This one problem is why I am going to try my next batch with no anti-freeze. I am pretty sure Stans would not have this problem, not sure about the Slime. And, it could just be that they got an extra thin coat of rubber on my one tire.

  70. #470
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    I'm using latex caulk (also has silica flakes) and windex (ammonia). Ultra cheap, and it's been working fine for a few weeks now.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  71. #471
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    particles

    sounds interesting. let us know how it goes.
    I scrapped off a bunch of latex dust/particles from the dried goop inside the tire. Hopefully that will help if I get another sidewall or bigger cut


    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    I'm using latex caulk (also has silica flakes) and windex (ammonia). Ultra cheap, and it's been working fine for a few weeks now.

  72. #472
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    Just pulled my first goathead out of my first tubeless tire. phssst. sealed. Beautiful.
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  73. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    I'm using latex caulk (also has silica flakes) and windex (ammonia). Ultra cheap, and it's been working fine for a few weeks now.
    Interesting, any more details, like proportions? Just push the caulk into a jar and shake?

    (Sorry if I missed something earlier.)
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  74. #474
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    What brand Latex Caulk?

  75. #475
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    Ghetto tubelessed my Bontrager TLR's with Slime Pro and found that I love tubeless. It's only been about six weeks but they have no leaks. I've pulled two large thorns out and both times I would hear a air leak for about six or seven rotations of the wheel and then saw a liquid booger go flying off to the side and the hole sealed completly.
    The first tire took me about an hour to finally get a seal. After I figured out how to get air thru a presta valve quickly with my compressor it only took one try with the second tire. The first week I would loose 2-4 lbs of pressure every two days. Now I loose about 2 lbs every three weeks.

  76. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtdober
    ... After I figured out how to get air thru a presta valve quickly with my compressor it only took one try with the second tire.

    What type of fitting did you use on your compressor to get air into the presta valve?

  77. #477
    saddlemeat
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjc115
    What type of fitting did you use on your compressor to get air into the presta valve?
    Just a guess, but a presta chuck?

    Probbly more important is a removeable core presta valve, lets a bigger volume of air in to pop the beads. I've also seen the core removed from a regular presta valve and put back. Neat trick.
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  78. #478
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    I have a 20 dollar presta chuck for my compressor, and a 99 cent presta-to-schrader converter that I carry in my camelbak.... I vastly prefer using the 99 cent thread-on version. I used this to seat my tires with no issues.
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  79. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy
    I have a 20 dollar presta chuck for my compressor, and a 99 cent presta-to-schrader converter that I carry in my camelbak.... I vastly prefer using the 99 cent thread-on version. I used this to seat my tires with no issues.
    Sometimes you can just use the quick connect chuck with nothing in it.

    The SKS pump adapter is good too. My Mavic tubeless stems don't have threads for the threaded adapter when the core is out.
    I ride with the best dogs.




  80. #480
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    For a while I had the head of an old Topeak floor pump attached to an inflator head for the compressor using the hose from the floor pump (hose-clamped to a threaded fitting). It worked awesome until I ran it over with the Jeep. This was a cool set up. It clamped onto presta valves with the lever like a standard floor pump, but then a couple feet back down the line there was a filler with a guage on it.
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  81. #481
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    I just picked up some sealant for a hole in my wife's car tire sidewall called AmerSeal from NAPA Auto Parts. I hadn't heard of this stuff before.

    The first thing about it that I noticed was how thick it was -- about like thick pancake mix. Secondly, when I took a little bit of it between my fingers, long stringly fibers form immediately. they look like fiberglass or cotton strands, but they are not visible in the liquid, only when a bit of it is dried out between your fingers.

    In my wife's tire, the stuff instantly plugged the hole. I took the remaining 16 oz in the bottle I bought and mixed it in with my variation of WSS ver 1. I'll try it in my tires soon.

    http://www.amerseal.com/product.htm
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  82. #482
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    rubber tipped wonder

    Quote Originally Posted by sjc115
    What type of fitting did you use on your compressor to get air into the presta valve?

    What I use is one of the spray nozels with a rubber tip. I just slip the rubber tip over the end of the presta valve and it blows up superfast. Its super nice when you are trying to set the bead for tubeless.

    like this http://www.matcotools.com/ProductImages/A201.jpg
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  83. #483
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    A friendly thought

    After reading this entire thread (yes, all 5 pages worth) I have noticed a similar theme across the board: People either have a easy time sealing the bead, or a nearly impossible time.

    After having worked in a shop for several years and converting countless tires to tubeless, I have learned a very important aspect that I have not heard mentioned yet. Whether you are running ghetto tubeless or using a Stans rim strip, it is very important that the tire fits snugly around the rim. This being said, some rims are very easy to convert and all you need is the rim strip. While on the other hand (depending on the tire) you may have to add some layers of tape under the rip strip to make a little snugger fit between the tire and the rim.

    Currently, I am running SOS rims with Maxxis Highroller tires. I had to add several layers of tape over the rim before I was able to get the tighter fit i was looking for. Once the thickness was right, the tires sealed right up and have never had a problem. I have never burped or had a tire blow off the rim.


    best of luck!
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  84. #484
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    the small brass piece is a presta adapter. the black plastic piece came with the compressor so I'm not really sure what it is. with all pieces put together I attatch it to the wheel and then pop the air hose on the end, this seem to work best. the air went in very fast then and sealed in a few seconds with the two popping sounds. I didn't have removable cores so it took a bit of trial and error.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Best Tubeless Brew?-presta.jpg  


  85. #485
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    One of these with removable cores works fine. Whoooooosh, sealed.

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  86. #486
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    What about adding the dust/material made from using an abrasive cleaning stick?


    I would think that they would fill holes quite nicely.

  87. #487
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    ^^ Like an old school gum eraser? That would be good hole pluggin' stuff.
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  88. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy
    ^^ Like an old school gum eraser? That would be good hole pluggin' stuff.
    It is kind of like a gum eraser. The sticks are way bigger though, and they cost under $10.

  89. #489
    FAT CHANCE!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5titusguy
    While your at the craft store getting your Mold Builder pick up some Silica beads. They are used for drying flowers....
    Then you can put some of these tiny balls/pellets in your tire and they seal up tiny and bigger holes,,,, I have not put a micrometer on them but they work well,,, and you buy one bag that will last a life time for $5.
    my Mix

    1 part Mold builder
    1 part Napa Auto tire sealant
    2 parts EG anti freeze
    1/3 "stans" (cytomax) size scoop in tire

    The Silica beads don't cause your solution to maybe dry up faster by pulling moisture into the bead? I guess if you soaked the silica before you added it then there would be no room for the silica to suck up moisture in your solution.

    thanks

  90. #490
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    My mix is working good so far (two weeks) :
    1pt mold builder
    1.5pt auto slime
    1pt EG antifreeze
    2pts water

    I have had very little seepage at the sidewall, but I know others have had constant weeping depending on the tire. All of this seepage appears to be antifreeze...very green drips. I had a tiny bit for only a couple of rides, and nothing since.

    1. Has anyone determine if this is in fact just antifreeze, or if it's a combo of ingredients?
    2. Does the newest incarnation of WSS (minus the antifreeze) seep less at the sidewall?

    I'm scoring a second set of wheels and used tires, and I'm expecting more of a seepage issue...
    You have no excuse for driving to work
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  91. #491
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    Hey CB,

    I use the latest formula that has no anti-freeze in it. I get a little bit of seepage at the sidewalls, on a Conti MK, and it also is a very green color. So it must be a combo of ingredients.

    The latest formula is working great btw. I just add a little more water to create a thinner consistency.

  92. #492
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    ^^ Interesting, thanks. I wonder if it's the antifreeze that's in the slime? The tire forms an impressive filter that only lets that one thing escape...but what is that one thing?
    You have no excuse for driving to work
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  93. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy
    ^^ Interesting, thanks. I wonder if it's the antifreeze that's in the slime? The tire forms an impressive filter that only lets that one thing escape...but what is that one thing?
    i'm guessing it's the EG or PG in the slime (can't remember which it contains). i'm using mold builder, slime and water only and get a lot of dark green seepage at the sidewalls as well.

  94. #494
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    My antifreeze is EG. I wonder if any PG folks can chime in and confirm dark green seepage drops on their sidewalls?

    I guess you'd have to be using PG and no slime in order to prove anything...or EG and no slime.
    You have no excuse for driving to work
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  95. #495
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    I had the green ooze when I used 2/3 Stan's and 1/3 tubeless slime, so it comes from the slime. It wept for months on some tires, enough to puddle on the floor, but the volume in the tire never seemed to decrease. I have gone to straight Stan's until I use up my abundant supply, then to WSS.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  96. #496
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    i just dismantled my tire that has been steadily weeping at the bead and sidewall for a month to try a different mixture. i'll be substituting the tubeless slime for flat attack and see what happens.

    performance and psi has been fine even with the seeping but i'd like to eliminate it if possible.

  97. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy
    My antifreeze is EG. I wonder if any PG folks can chime in and confirm dark green seepage drops on their sidewalls?

    I guess you'd have to be using PG and no slime in order to prove anything...or EG and no slime.

    it's the PG that is leaking. as mentioned i just went from mold builder/slime/water to mold builder/flat attack/water and have the same dark green spots at the sidewall. both slime and flat attack use PG.

  98. #498
    saddlemeat
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    I have been using cheap EG and slime (original WSS, same as CB is using) for the last year with no sign of weeping. Ignitors, MotoRaptors, and Exiwolfs.
    I ride with the best dogs.




  99. #499
    4 Niners
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    My Maxis tires don't weep so that is not necessarily an indicator. Maxis seems to have less porous sidewalls.

  100. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy
    My Maxis tires don't weep so that is not necessarily an indicator. Maxis seems to have less porous sidewalls.
    the only brand of non UST tires i've set up tubeless are maxxis. i believe every one of the single ply 2.35 minion dhf's and high rollers has spotted at the sidewall using stans, WSS or a similar recipe.

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