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  1. #4001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aglo View Post
    No.
    PG is a stabilizer and also acts as antifreeze.
    Ammonia prevents the latex polymerization, by keeping the pH around 8.
    And if you use CO2 cartridges to fill or top off your tubeless setup, it will drop the pH, and your latex will polymerize into stanimals and ammonia water, which then proceeds to weep out your sidewalls.

    On my last batch of WSS, I used some cornmeal, but added finely chopped maribou feathers (close to down feathers in consistency, but straighter and less prone to clumping) as a filler media. Seems to be working well.
    I would advise not taking my advice.

  2. #4002
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    Hello
    I have been here for some time and shall be reports for my brew also, that have from here . The liquid will be stay for 1-2 month , then need to top up.

    1.0 Latex = 200 ml (i have more in Thailand from tree !!!)
    2.0 PG = 200 ml
    3.0 Water = 150 ml
    4.0 Ammonia = 10ml.

    During mix up
    1.0 Latex + water + Ammonia >> Shake Shake Shake
    2.0 Fill with PG = 100 then >> Shake
    3.0 Fill with PG = 100 then >> Shake

    During shake it will produce WARM liquid,

    and you can see the results during test / For

    https://youtu.be/0A4boPIxVBQ

    https://youtu.be/M--Mx5hONe8


    FOR MTB tires

    Can be use with WIRE trie
    NO tubeless tire
    Tubeless tire >> now i remove it out , and use only WIRE and FOLD.

  3. #4003
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    Huh?

  4. #4004
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    Anyone ever have their tubeless brew mold?

    https://imgur.com/a/dABCV

  5. #4005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renovatio View Post
    Anyone ever have their tubeless brew mold?

    https://imgur.com/a/dABCV
    Couple posts back someone reported something similar.

  6. #4006
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    for those using the recipe with Cornmeal. is it best to use the finely ground or the courser grind? opinions. thanks.

  7. #4007
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    Quote Originally Posted by KonaSS View Post
    May be a slight thread drift, and totally respect the work you all do to make your own. But if you are in a pinch, OR - like me, just don't have the time or number of bikes to get into DIY, what is the groups thought on the BEST OFF THE SHELF sealant?
    Orange Seal Endurance

    No boogers so far and lasting a solid year.

  8. #4008
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainclimb View Post
    for those using the recipe with Cornmeal. is it best to use the finely ground or the courser grind? opinions. thanks.
    I can attempt to indirectly answer this. I use finely grounded rice powder and it is serving its purpose very well.

  9. #4009
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    so sounds like it is best to go with the finely ground whether is cornmeal or rice? any other opinions or try outs?

  10. #4010
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    Bigger particle size will plug bigger holes but is hader to get thru the valve stem when you are adding fluid. I ruin my cornmeal thru 2 strainers, one to get rid of the powder and one to get rid of the real big chunks that can clog the vavle stem.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  11. #4011
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    When you use a strainer on cornmeal to get out 'powder' doesn't the powder go through the strainer? Wouldn't whatever is left in the strainer be the "big chunks"? Do you strain it dry? or do you add water and put it through the strainer? TIA.

  12. #4012
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    I use 2 strainers and the stuff that falls through the small holed stainer I discard. The stuff left in the big hole strainer I discard. The middle size is what goes in the mix. Although lately, I have been experimenting with mix with no particles.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  13. #4013
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    Hello Guys,

    I'm very interested in mixing up my own sealant, cause I now change all my bikes up to tubeless. Until now I just used Stans cause we 've this in our shop and I doesn't have experience with other mixtures yet.

    But I also work with epoxy and glass fibre so I got an idea:
    Did anyone of you tried "microballoons" as a filler yet?
    I'm not sure because I not read the whole thread..

    Here you can see what I mean:
    Microballoons for Epoxy Resin, Filler| HP-Textiles


    //EDIT:
    There are also other grades:
    5 Liter Microballons, Microballoons, Glashohlkugeln ab 1,20 /Liter je nach Korn | eBay

    Maybe this is a good alternative for glitter?

    Would be nice to hear your opinion about that.

    Br
    H.

  14. #4014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech5 View Post
    Hello Guys,

    I'm very interested in mixing up my own sealant, cause I now change all my bikes up to tubeless. Until now I just used Stans cause we 've this in our shop and I doesn't have experience with other mixtures yet.

    But I also work with epoxy and glass fibre so I got an idea:
    Did anyone of you tried "microballoons" as a filler yet?
    I'm not sure because I not read the whole thread..

    Here you can see what I mean:
    Microballoons for Epoxy Resin, Filler| HP-Textiles


    //EDIT:
    There are also other grades:
    5 Liter Microballons, Microballoons, Glashohlkugeln ab 1,20 /Liter je nach Korn | eBay

    Maybe this is a good alternative for glitter?

    Would be nice to hear your opinion about that.

    Br
    H.
    Can you please help us understand more about this microballoon... how will it differ from rubber crumbs.

  15. #4015
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    Should be lighter -> hollow glass with 0,26 g/cm vs rubber crumb with 0,65 g/cm.
    Also you got a defined diameter you can chose so you can mix it up you want to and with a nice range of diamters.

  16. #4016
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech5 View Post
    Should be lighter -> hollow glass with 0,26 g/cm vs rubber crumb with 0,65 g/cm.
    Also you got a defined diameter you can chose so you can mix it up you want to and with a nice range of diamters.
    That sounds promising.. have had a major failure with rubber crumbs.

    Is this similar to LDPE? :

    Powder Coating, Plastic Coating, Polyester Coating, Thermoset Powder, Electrostatic Powder Coating

  17. #4017
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    If wikipedia is right LDPE is even heavyer than rubber and the microballoons -> 0.91 g/cm.
    I think in general its comparable but as I mentioned you have a wider range of diameters you can chose for your application.

  18. #4018
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    Looks promising. Try it and report back.

  19. #4019
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    Which would you recommend as filler?
    Imo it should be a "bigger" as the small holes can be plugged with pure latex.

  20. #4020
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    My last batch was latex, slime, DI water and anti freeze. It sealed up the tire but when I got a big thorn in Utah that hole didn't seal well.

    Batch 2 is needed. What ratios should I use? I have latex, RV antifreeze, slime, DI water, and cornmeal, glitter, and other bits I could add.

  21. #4021
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    For me slime, latex and RV antifreeze didn't work well. After one year tires look ugly inside, it was drying. But maybe it's because I was using Schwalbe lite skin tires.. they are thin as paper. Btw i made experiment and tried to mount road bike tire as tubeless my diy sealant didn't seal tire and it was not holding pressure Conti Revo sealed instantly same rim, same tire. Probably will give a chance to Conti.

    Sent from my SM-G388F using Tapatalk

  22. #4022
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    Remember, this has been discussed before: chunkulators need to have close to neutral boyancy in the sealant. Otherwise they might float on the top and never get to a hole to seal it. Corn meal is just a little heavier than my sealant mixture, if you agitate it, it takes a while to sink. Slime is another example. It is thicker, but rubber chunks are denser than corn meal yet they are neutral density to slime since you can look at slime that has sat around for a month and the rubber is still more or less randomly floating. I don't tink corn meal is great becaiuse it is such a perfect product; I think corn meal works because it has the right density.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  23. #4023
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    Not sure if it's right but I found 0,66 g/cm for cornmeal?
    Thats almost exactly the value for rubber.

    //But you could be right with demixing when the density is way to different with base fluid.

  24. #4024
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech5 View Post
    Not sure if it's right but I found 0,66 g/cm for cornmeal?
    Thats almost exactly the value for rubber.

    //But you could be right with demixing when the density is way to different with base fluid.
    Some notes.
    ~0,66g/cm3 is the density for dry cornmeal, don't know the density of hydrated cornmeal but i'm sure its higher than 0.82g/cm3 because that's the density for cornmeal flour.
    Solid rubber has a higher value than 0.66g/cm3, usually rubber is over 0.8g/cm3 and I think that is for natural rubber (dry latex), hard solid rubber, not sure so don't take my word for it, is over 1.1g/cm3.
    You can't use density values for grounded or dry chunkulators because they will behave differently in the mix, because the air will be replaced by water/pg/latex/etc...

    If I recall correctly the density for old Stan's is around 0.92g/cm3, meaning our BAMFS should also be around this value, so chunkulator with density values around this is ideal for a better neutral buoyancy.

    I have yet to check your link, and will do it later.
    I think some users had already tried with *glass wool and *rock wool, don't recall the results.

    *-don't know if those are the correct names in english, but those are the literal translation of the names in my language.

  25. #4025
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    I found this for rubber:

    The average loose density of tire shreds varies according to the size of the shreds, but can be expected to be between 390 kg/m3 (24 lb/ft3) to 535 kg/m3 (33 lb/ft3). The average compacted density ranges from 650 kg/m3 (40 lb/ft3) to 840 kg/m3 (52 lb/ft3).(3)
    https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publication.../97148/st1.cfm

    So it has a wide range I guess.

    Here you can find the datasheet for the glass:
    http://www.hp-textiles.com/TDS/EN/Fi...ons/HP-MB2.pdf

  26. #4026
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    Remember, this has been discussed before: chunkulators need to have close to neutral boyancy in the sealant. Otherwise they might float on the top and never get to a hole to seal it. Corn meal is just a little heavier than my sealant mixture, if you agitate it, it takes a while to sink. Slime is another example. It is thicker, but rubber chunks are denser than corn meal yet they are neutral density to slime since you can look at slime that has sat around for a month and the rubber is still more or less randomly floating. I don't tink corn meal is great becaiuse it is such a perfect product; I think corn meal works because it has the right density.
    I feel you are right. So is the case with Rice powder.

    At times I do wonder why change and look for LDPE etc, when rice powder is doing an awesome job.

  27. #4027
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neogen View Post
    I feel you are right. So is the case with Rice powder.

    At times I do wonder why change and look for LDPE etc, when rice powder is doing an awesome job.
    Because we have restless minds and... well we are just humans, and we like new things

  28. #4028
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    Remember, this has been discussed before: chunkulators need to have close to neutral boyancy in the sealant. Otherwise they might float on the top and never get to a hole to seal it. Corn meal is just a little heavier than my sealant mixture, if you agitate it, it takes a while to sink. Slime is another example. It is thicker, but rubber chunks are denser than corn meal yet they are neutral density to slime since you can look at slime that has sat around for a month and the rubber is still more or less randomly floating. I don't tink corn meal is great becaiuse it is such a perfect product; I think corn meal works because it has the right density.
    Xantham Gum keeps it all in suspension

    I had booger problems with XG and Rubber Crumb but my XG & Corn Meal mix has no such problems.

  29. #4029
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    After trying a formula I've swiped from a patent:
    Patent US20140221535 - Tire Sealant and Preparation Method Thereof - Google Patents

    I can say that all latex-based solutions are inferior and chitosan/PVAl gel is the future of sealants.

    It seals large punctures - but hey, so can Stans and brews with proper amount of chunkulators.

    What is excels at is nearly instantly sealing micro-pores like in Continental Racesport tires, preventing sidewall weeping and keeping air in like a butyl tube. (While, for obvious reasons, highly porous tires sealed by latex-based sealants keep air more like a latex tube - requiring frequent pump-ups and refills. Latex is water and air permeable to a degree, after all.)

    Also, reprecipitating chitosan with waterglass instead of NaOH results in SiO2 gel that must also do a good job of helping seal this pores.

    I'm also using PVAl crosslinked by borax and then put though a kitchen blender.
    Note that performance of pure PVAl gel is inferior to PVAl/chitosan mix, it also have a tendency to coalesce, but it can be prevented by adding bentonite clay as per instructions. Chitosan gel seems to prevent coalescing and permanent sedimentation even without it, though bentonite might be a good component anyway, 'tests pending'

    A caveat:

    It has a tendency to stick to rims pretty strongly when tried up, though - which might be a problem for UST rims (does not stick to polypropylene tapes like Stans or TESA, obviously).

    It also pretty hard to remove from a tire when dried - though not much moreso than Latex-based sealants.

    What is also great that it does not require alkaline medium (high PH) and will not form boogers (just not acidic or chitosan will dissolve again).

    So, you can simply add water/antifreeze regularly and never worry about boogers. Since it seems to seal the tire from within much better, I think it would require less frequent topping up, too - even in porous tires.

    I highly recommend all homebrewers to try it. I've ordered my batch of chitosan from Amazon, bentonite clay is a component of some cat litter fillers, PVAl can be had from 'crafts shops'.

    Note: if you see 'water-soluble chitosan', avoid, this is a scam.
    I've been not careful and got one batch like that from Aliexpress first, turns out it is simple dietary glucose. Rather ironic, since 'dietary chitosan' is marketed as intestinal absorption enhancer and slimming aid .

    EDIT:
    I've mixed up polyvinyl acetate and polyvinyl alcohol. We need latter, of course - first is thermoplastic polymer that is not soluble in water. When you see PVAl, think polyvinyl alcohol.
    Last edited by Balor; 01-13-2017 at 07:49 PM.

  30. #4030
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balor View Post
    After trying a formula I've swiped from a patent:
    Patent US20140221535 - Tire Sealant and Preparation Method Thereof - Google Patents

    I can say that all latex-based solutions are inferior and chitosan/PVAc gel is the future of sealants.
    Ok, sounds like you're onto something. Can you give us the exact recipe you are currently using, and perhaps a history of mixes tried and results gained?

    Thanks for sharing!
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  31. #4031
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    I'm in. would love to experiment...the patent was too confusing, a recepie would help.

  32. #4032
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    Hmm. That is how I do it.

    Dissolve some chitosan as per instructions in 1% acetic acid (diluted vinegar, basically). For now I'm using 10 gramms. (1%) per liter. After some stirring you will end up with dilute 'chitosan kisel'.

    Neutralize the acid with waterglass, don't go too overboard or solution will become too alkaline (may not be good for your rims). I'm not a chemist so I cannot say how much is really required, a litmus paper might be helpful. The solution will turn opaque and even more viscous, forming a gel. Add a tablespon of 'undiluted' chitosan, it helps with 'logjam' mechanism of sealing as patent states.

    Dissolve PVAl in water, will take some boiling water and a lot of stirring. Don't aim for more then 5% solution, PVAl has limited solubility.
    Add about as much boric acid by weight as PVAl (or even less, as my experience shows). The solution will pretty much instantly turn into a block of rubbery gel (great fun, btw).
    Shove it into a blender and give it a whirl, until you'll get chunks fine enough to fit into a valve hole.
    Add that gooey mass into your sealant (up to 10% of total mass according to patent, that is about as much as I did), mix up.


    P.S. I also make silicagel by neutralising waterglass with same acetic acid and add a few grams into the mix.

    Like I said, before I got real chitosan, I've experimented with just PVAl gel and got poor results. With SiO2 (silicagel) blended into the mix I've got MUCH better results, but I also had to add bentonite to prevent coagulation.

    I'll be testing 'bentonite-less' brew soon, too, and will keep you guys posted.
    I've been testing it for a while already, and I think this should really shift the 'sealant paradigm'.

  33. #4033
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    A point of note:

    If you have an old tire you want to experiment with, a layer of latex buildup will interfere with this sealant function.
    Clean it well first, or try with a new tire (or, preferably, an old tire you thought worthless for tubeless installation)

    I've been using it with great success on converting Continental Grand Prix road tires into tubeless, for instance, and 'Cyclocross speed' tires that are inexpensive and roll wonderfully. It took a LOT of time and effort to seal them up with Stans, and they were weeping and leaking air for a week, requiring nearly constant attention.
    Even after initial sealing period they were behaving like tires with latex tubes, necessitating a pressure check every ride. With this sealant this is nearly as easy as mounting an UST tire, and it holds air nearly as well.

  34. #4034
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    By the way, I've tried a mix without bentonite and it didn't seal nearly as well.
    Fortunately, this is really cheap and easy to get ingredient.

  35. #4035
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    Okay, reading thru - here's the materials list. Priced available quantities, added needed amts per calcs below - please correct as required;

    The "body"/carrier/main mix - 90%;
    Chitosan powder - 90% deacetylation. $11/100g - need 30g
    Dilute acetic acid (distilled vinegar), too cheap to worry/1 gal - need 3L
    Waterglass, or sodium metasilicate, $11/1 lb - need a Tbsp?
    Litmus paper, $1/80 strips

    Chunkulants - 10%;
    Polyvinyl Alcohol powder, $11/100g - need 12.5g
    Boric acid (roach away), $5/1 lb (454g) - need 10g
    Distilled water, too cheap to worry/1 gal - need 1 1/2 cups
    Bentonite clay powder, $10/1 lb - need 1 Tbsp

    Body/carrier:
    Mix 10g chitosan/1 liter vinegar, add sodium metasilicate to reach pH of 6.67.3. Basic yield? Maybe 1.3L?

    PVA gel - 5% PVA in boiling water, boric acid to gel, blend fine. PVA density is 1.19g/cm3, works out to about 25g/oz volume. A mix of 1/2 oz or 1 tablespoon (Tbsp) PVA to 10 oz water is about a 5% solution. Add 1 Tbsp boric acid. Should yield about 1 .5 cup, or 0.36L.

    So make 3x basic body mix, 1 PVA gel as above, + Tbsp Bentonite.

    30g Chitosan, 3 L vinegar, 1Tbs PVA, 10oz distilled water, 1 Tbsp boric acid, 1Tbsp Bentonite.

    This batch should be just more than 1 gallon. (container needed)
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  36. #4036
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    Hmm. Why so much vinegar? You really only need about 1% vinegar for dissolution of chitosan, and I'm doing it in a separate small jug myself. Then I add waterglass until it turns into a thick 'hairy' gel and pour it into the main container. (Btw, make sure you first dump the chitosan into a liquid and THAN add vinegar, otherwise it will clump up and will not dissolve).

    By the way, I've found out that waterglass also crosslinks PVA solution, resulting in something like silicone rubber - and extremely tough one! My mixer even failed to blend it, so not that is not that useful by itself.
    But if you mix pva solution with dilute chitosan and THEN add waterglass you get a very interesting 'hairy gel', easily blendable and very thick. (Did I mention that doing this 'chemistry at home' is fun? )
    I think this is even getting outside the scope of the original patent, hah. But more experiments are required to fine tune proportions. It may be used as an addition to borax-crosslinked PVA or instead of it - again, there is still room for more experiments.
    But you still need to 'dope' it with silicagel and bentonite for it to truly work as intended.
    In result you get a gel that resist settling, plugs holes both large and small and holds air nearly like a butyl tube.

    I recommend you to try it on a Continental tire first - they are infamous for their porous sidewalls, I can attest to that.
    Get a pair and compare results to your WSS latex-based sealant.
    It likely works better than Stans, but still latex is much more permeable.
    I wonder if adding bentonite/precipitated silicagel to your WSS as 'chunkulators' would make it as good or better, though?

    Latex is more expensive however (I actually got 500 grams of PVAl for 10$, and that is HUGE amounts so far as resulting volumes are concerned) and prone to "polymerization into stanimals" (c) as soon as PH drops.

  37. #4037
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balor View Post
    Hmm. Why so much vinegar? You really only need about 1% vinegar for dissolution of chitosan, and I'm doing it in a separate small jug myself. Then I add waterglass until it turns into a thick 'hairy' gel and pour it into the main container. (Btw, make sure you first dump the chitosan into a liquid and THAN add vinegar, otherwise it will clump up and will not dissolve).
    This is why so much vinegar:

    Quote Originally Posted by Balor View Post
    Hmm. That is how I do it.

    Dissolve some chitosan as per instructions in 1% acetic acid (diluted vinegar, basically). For now I'm using 10 gramms. (1%) per liter. After some stirring you will end up with dilute 'chitosan kisel'.
    I interpreted this as 10g chitosan per liter vinegar - or was your comment on the strength of the vinegar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Balor View Post
    Then I add waterglass until it turns into a thick 'hairy' gel and pour it into the main container. (Btw, make sure you first dump the chitosan into a liquid and THAN add vinegar, otherwise it will clump up and will not dissolve).
    What other liquid before adding vinegar? I think this is the same misinterpretation, and the answer may clarify all. If only a small amount of vinegar is needed, perhaps the balance is distilled water? Best answer would be proportions needed of chitosan, vinegar, ?, ?....


    Quote Originally Posted by Balor View Post
    By the way, I've found out that waterglass also crosslinks PVA solution, resulting in something like silicone rubber - and extremely tough one! My mixer even failed to blend it, so not that is not that useful by itself.
    But if you mix pva solution with dilute chitosan and THEN add waterglass you get a very interesting gel 'hairy gel', easily blendable and very thick. (Did I mention that doing this 'chemistry at home' is fun? )
    I think this is even getting outside the scope of the original patent, hah. But more experiments are required to fine tune proportions. It may be used as an addition to borax-crosslinked PVA or instead of it - again, there is still room for more experiments.
    But you still need to 'dope' it with silicagel and bentonite for it to truly work as intended.
    In result you get a gel that resist settling, plugs holes both large and small and holds air nearly like a butyl tube.
    Hmm. I'm still thinking in terms of "carrier fluid" and "chunkulants" - but it seems that you are blurring the line a bit? Not a bad thing, indeed - and it's the same set of ingredients. Experiment on! And keep us posted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Balor View Post
    I wonder if adding bentonite/precipitated silicagel to your WSS as 'chunkulators' would make it as good or better, though?
    This is indeed an interesting thought. We tried hard silica (dessicant) run thru a blender - but it was too hard/heavy and settled out. Soft blended silica gel sounds better, and bentonite as a very small pitch chunkulant sounds appealing as well. Conversely, I was contemplating adding cotton "linter" fibers to your mix, since they work so well in
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  38. #4038
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester View Post
    I interpreted this as 10g chitosan per liter vinegar - or was your comment on the strength of the vinegar?
    Yea, 'strength' of vinegar, exactly - or, namely 'concentration of acetic acid'. It is usually sold in 7% concentration, so you need to dilute it.

    Quote Originally Posted by wadester View Post
    What other liquid before adding vinegar? I think this is the same misinterpretation, and the answer may clarify all. If only a small amount of vinegar is needed, perhaps the balance is distilled water? Best answer would be proportions needed of chitosan, vinegar, ?, ?....
    The fluid is what was described as 'solvent' in the patent. Basically water + antifreeze additives like PG or glycerine. I've bought a 10-liter jug of glycerine-based heat transfer fluid myself .
    I'm just diluting the chitosan in one large cup with 1% acetic acid (concentration, again, volume does not matter much), than add enough waterglass to neutralise it and pour it into the blender, adding bentonite, precipitated silica and crosslinked PVAl gel, blend, than add more antifreeze as required and mix.
    It does not mean that this is an optimum way, and I'm still did not test borax-crosslinked vs waterglass-crosslinked gels.

    Quote Originally Posted by wadester View Post
    This is indeed an interesting thought. We tried hard silica (dessicant) run thru a blender - but it was too hard/heavy and settled out. Soft blended silica gel sounds better, and bentonite as a very small pitch chunkulant sounds appealing as well. Conversely, I was contemplating adding cotton "linter" fibers to your mix, since they work so well in
    Hah! I've been using shredded tube to try and seal a 5-mm long gash in sidewall.
    It sealed at low pressure, but when I tried to up the pressure (road tire) - spit it out.

    I'll sure try adding cotton fibers and see how it goes.

  39. #4039
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    Can't find this info in this thread...

    Is there a difference between "liquid latex" used in special effects prosthetics (like making Halloween monster makeup) and latex mould builder? I have found liquid a bit cheaper.
    Liquid Latex (16 Fluid Ounces) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004WCMKA0..._yXNKybTTQQ331

    I have been using latex caulk lately. Super cheap but not sure it works that well seems to harden and dry quickly.
    Thorn in your Sidewall
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  40. #4040
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    2 wraps of tape?

    My LBS is telling me to run 2 wraps of stan's tape, I don't see anyway that could add anything but cost to the setup. Stan's video shows one wrap with a six inch overlap.
    Any thoughts?
    Also, I'm having trouble finding latex locally. Party place wanted 23.99 for 12 0z jar.
    Our hobby lobby claims not to carry it, but I was asking for liquid latex, not mold builder.
    Finally ordered from Amazon. Cheap enough. Any other places might carry it? Art supply place I'm sure would be expensive too.
    It's not worth the hassle if it costs more than Stan's.
    Finally, I know a lot of people have contributed to this forum, but would be nice to find a recipe complete w mixing order here. Too much searching, and I almost ruined a batch before I found out mixing order was important. Not *****ing, just seems like a lot of reading.
    And thanks to those "On shoulders we stand" for blazing the WSS trail.
    Chet

  41. #4041
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    2 wraps is a waste. The biggest problem with Stan's tape is that it tends to become unstuck at the end of the overlap. This is true even if you let it sit for several hours with a tube to seat the tape. I have used a small piece of clear package tape to seal the ends of my last wheel build. I will report back. I have successfully used Goop in the past but you have to wait for it to dry. I am pretty sure Gorilla tape (the clear kind) would work and I will also experiment with that on next retaping.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  42. #4042
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    I'll watch for that. I have break my rear wheel apart (New Wheelset!), so I'll check the overlap.

  43. #4043
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    Quote Originally Posted by chet wright View Post
    Finally, I know a lot of people have contributed to this forum, but would be nice to find a recipe complete w mixing order here. Too much searching, and I almost ruined a batch before I found out mixing order was important.
    Every once in a while someone will post a recipe or group of recipes in a single post. I've done it myself. Problem is there's so much going on that it doesn't take long before it's lost in the thread.

  44. #4044
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    Just mixed a new batch of BAMFSv2.0 - 2 parts distilled water, 2 parts PG (Tractor Supply), 0.3 parts ammonia (Ace hardware), 1 part latex (Mold Builder), 1 tbs cornmeal (Kroger white). My v2.0 doesn't have the XG in it...I really don't think it helps and seems to make it thicker. This is basically the Stan's clone recipe. Will be installing some new tires so figured I would use my own vs. Stan's.

    Has anyone de-constructed the new Stan's Race formula sealant? Sounds like it has more/larger chunkulators and is thicker overall. I wonder if that is must what I have above with more latex and cornmeal or do you think its a different chunkulator? Its expensive.
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

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  45. #4045
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    ^^Is that to mix up a pint sized bottle? Or would a pint sized bottle come out like this? (I just tripled everything)

    6oz water
    6oz PG
    .9oz amonia
    3oz latex
    3tbsp cornmeal

  46. #4046
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    @Tigeo:
    To me it looks like glassfiber, also I guess it contains more ammonia, it smells much stronger than the regular Stan's.
    I bought the race sealant but it is less easy to refill. It cloggs the syringe, even the old bottle tube seals up, so I have to partly undo the bead from the rim.
    Best way imo is to use the race sealant first time and afterwards refill with the regular or selfmade solution through the valve.
    The race version seals better and faster though.

  47. #4047
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    I am using the Hucking Kitty recipe (latex caulk, RV antifreeze, Slime) and my rear tire constantly has these wet-looking spots on it. This is what it looks like after 4 days of hanging in the garage. (Maxxis Igniter TR EXO) What's going on here?

    Best Tubeless Brew?-20170217_224614.jpg
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  48. #4048
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    ^^^it's the PG (RV antifreeze) weeping. I get that with Stan's on some tires. The longer they sit, the more I see it.
    Do the math.

  49. #4049
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    Yeah, what LR said. I've had that in sidewalls from flex/porosity, and in the tread from "not quite sealed" punctures/porosity. Older tires are worse, but brand new tires may also do it.

    Some people have "painted" the inside of their tires with rubber cement or latex to seal porosity, but flex over time and punctures still lead to this.

    It's actually sealant leaking out - but the chunkulants either stick in the hole or fall off, the water evaporates, and you're left with the glycol - which sticks around and looks wet.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  50. #4050
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    Update for OLD school V break rim and fold tire applied for TUBELESS

    Best Tubeless Brew?-20170330_195316.jpgBest Tubeless Brew?-20170330_195323.jpgBest Tubeless Brew?-20170330_200421.jpgBest Tubeless Brew?-20170330_200538.jpgBest Tubeless Brew?-20170330_200752.jpg
    Best Tubeless Brew?-20170330_201332.jpg
    Best Tubeless Brew?-20170330_201018.jpgBest Tubeless Brew?-20170330_201046.jpgBest Tubeless Brew?-20170330_202619.jpgBest Tubeless Brew?-20170330_202727.jpgBest Tubeless Brew?-20170330_212544.jpgBest Tubeless Brew?-20170330_215520.jpgBest Tubeless Brew?-20170331_184428.jpg

  51. #4051
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    I'm still running:
    1 part ATV slime
    1 part latex
    1 part PG
    1 part h20

    Been 2-3 years now and I've had more non-sealant wheel issues than sealant issues.

    Still, sadly, I haven't been able to convince my commrades to start home brewing...

  52. #4052
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    Not sure this will work, but anyone try to re-hydrate their sealant? (So it stays liquid for longer w/o drying into a latex ball)

    Was thinking..... ~once a month or every two months, add a small amount of a hydrating mixture: PG, H2o, Ammonia.

    I would guess that it would need to be done from the start from a fresh sealant install as this would not help if the latex is already starting to combine due to a lack of moisture/fluid.
    "Don't ride faster than your guardian angel can fly"

  53. #4053
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toot3344556 View Post
    I'm still running:
    1 part ATV slime
    1 part latex
    1 part PG
    1 part h20



    Been 2-3 years now and I've had more non-sealant wheel issues than sealant issues.

    Still, sadly, I haven't been able to convince my commrades to start home brewing...
    I'm pretty close to that but have been thinking of less PG and more water. Slime already has quite a bit of PG in it as far as I can tell.

    My next batch I think I might try.

  54. #4054
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    Adding liquids to prolong sealant life.

    I used to do that and it did seem to prolong life by about 2x. Now I use nitrogen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bail_Monkey View Post
    Not sure this will work, but anyone try to re-hydrate their sealant? (So it stays liquid for longer w/o drying into a latex ball)

    Was thinking..... ~once a month or every two months, add a small amount of a hydrating mixture: PG, H2o, Ammonia.

    I would guess that it would need to be done from the start from a fresh sealant install as this would not help if the latex is already starting to combine due to a lack of moisture/fluid.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  55. #4055
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bail_Monkey View Post
    Not sure this will work, but anyone try to re-hydrate their sealant? (So it stays liquid for longer w/o drying into a latex ball)

    Was thinking..... ~once a month or every two months, add a small amount of a hydrating mixture: PG, H2o, Ammonia.

    I would guess that it would need to be done from the start from a fresh sealant install as this would not help if the latex is already starting to combine due to a lack of moisture/fluid.
    I couldn't tell you where in the thread it is but I know its been done and discussed.


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  56. #4056
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bail_Monkey View Post
    Not sure this will work, but anyone try to re-hydrate their sealant? (So it stays liquid for longer w/o drying into a latex ball)

    Was thinking..... ~once a month or every two months, add a small amount of a hydrating mixture: PG, H2o, Ammonia.

    I would guess that it would need to be done from the start from a fresh sealant install as this would not help if the latex is already starting to combine due to a lack of moisture/fluid.
    Topping off with sealant regularly works well for me, and doesn't seem to get progressively thicker over the life of a tire. I have tried adding additional ammonia but it didn't seem worth the bother so I just top off once a month. Try it in one tire so you have a basis for comparison.
    I ride with the best dogs.




  57. #4057
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    Like you said, Hobby Lobby mold builder. Print a 40% off coupon from their website and it's as cheap as Amazon, but instant satisfaction.

  58. #4058
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    I made a batch with AF/latex/ammonia/slime/cornmeal as described here, but in spite of vigorously shaking the mix prior to filling tubes, the bottom 4 ounces of the batch was way too clogged with clunks of cornmeal. It made getting into the tubes problematic. I'm using the Stan's injector into shrader valves (with core removed). I ended up pouring it through a sifter to take out the clogs.
    I have been filling tubes on fixer bikes that I don't see again, so I don't know if the solution works, I assume it does. This batch has lasted 2 months, so it shouldn't be old.
    Have you guys been sifting the cornmeal, or is the just the way the bottom of the batch is going to be?

  59. #4059
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    Quote Originally Posted by chet wright View Post
    I made a batch with AF/latex/ammonia/slime/cornmeal as described here, but in spite of vigorously shaking the mix prior to filling tubes, the bottom 4 ounces of the batch was way too clogged with clunks of cornmeal. It made getting into the tubes problematic. I'm using the Stan's injector into shrader valves (with core removed). I ended up pouring it through a sifter to take out the clogs.
    I have been filling tubes on fixer bikes that I don't see again, so I don't know if the solution works, I assume it does. This batch has lasted 2 months, so it shouldn't be old.
    Have you guys been sifting the cornmeal, or is the just the way the bottom of the batch is going to be?
    Truth to be known... just omit the cornmeal, it will work as well or better.
    I ride with the best dogs.




  60. #4060
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    I always use corn meal, works great, but I use PG and water, not AF and I use automotive slime. Been using the same mix for a few years now. I make a batch of about 3/4 gallon at a time, lasts 3 years between my trail bike, fat bike and my son's bike.

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  61. #4061
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    I don't use cornmeal, as long as it's not a sidewall slash everything got sealed up.

  62. #4062
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    I always use corn meal, works great, but I use PG and water, not AF and I use automotive slime. Been using the same mix for a few years now. I make a batch of about 3/4 gallon at a time, lasts 3 years between my trail bike, fat bike and my son's bike.

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    Sounds like you found a good formula. what is the formula that you're using?

  63. #4063
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    I used to run my cornmeal through 2 strainers and used the stuff from the middle one. This eliminated the powder and the big pieces that tended to clog the valve stem when I was putting it in the tire. Different brands probably have different size particles and different variability. Anyway, I don't use cornmeal any more since, as stated, if it is not a huge hole the sealeant will work anyway and the cornmeal probably increased boogers. 99% of my leaks are thorns. Without corn it might take a second or 2 longer, but they hole still always seals.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  64. #4064
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    Distilled water 32oz
    Propylene Glycol 32oz
    Ammonia 2oz
    Latex 32oz
    Automotive slime 8 oz
    Cornmeal 3/4 cup (strained to remove power, I don't use the really course stuff so no larger pieces).

    Actually a bit more than 3/4 of a gallon but after doing my new plus bike and filling a 16oz slime bottle probably 3/4 of the way I have about 2/3 of my 1 gallon jug left. Having the spare bottle in the van is nice because I have enough to completely refill a set of tires and then some if needed when out of town.

    Only booger issues I have is if I use CO2 or previous to having full tubeless rims and tires, burping a tire off the rim that let crap inside. Then using CO2 to reseat the tire and fill up so I can finish my ride. Won't ever go back to ghetto tubeless garbage ever again lol.

    Also my jug sits in unheated garage all winter (a lot of sub zero days) and unaffected.

    99% of what I deal with is thorns (some get damn big on some.of the plants here), sometimes glass (asshats tossing beer bottles on the ground) and such. Literally NEVER even noticed a leak as it seals quickly. I get a nice gelatin type coating inside the tire when I first set them up. Add a little more after a few rides, don't touch then again for the entire season. Following season drain fluid, any buggers, add a little and go.

    Fat bike hasn't been touched since I set up tubeless a year ago.

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  65. #4065
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    ^Like I said, omit the cornmeal, it doesn't do anything, you get everything you mentioned without it too.
    I ride with the best dogs.




  66. #4066
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    Distilled water 32oz
    Propylene Glycol 32oz
    Ammonia 2oz
    Latex 32oz
    Automotive slime 8 oz
    Cornmeal 3/4 cup (strained to remove power, I don't use the really course stuff so no larger pieces).

    Actually a bit more than 3/4 of a gallon but after doing my new plus bike and filling a 16oz slime bottle probably 3/4 of the way I have about 2/3 of my 1 gallon jug left. Having the spare bottle in the van is nice because I have enough to completely refill a set of tires and then some if needed when out of town.

    Only booger issues I have is if I use CO2 or previous to having full tubeless rims and tires, burping a tire off the rim that let crap inside. Then using CO2 to reseat the tire and fill up so I can finish my ride. Won't ever go back to ghetto tubeless garbage ever again lol.

    Also my jug sits in unheated garage all winter (a lot of sub zero days) and unaffected.

    99% of what I deal with is thorns (some get damn big on some.of the plants here), sometimes glass (asshats tossing beer bottles on the ground) and such. Literally NEVER even noticed a leak as it seals quickly. I get a nice gelatin type coating inside the tire when I first set them up. Add a little more after a few rides, don't touch then again for the entire season. Following season drain fluid, any buggers, add a little and go.

    Fat bike hasn't been touched since I set up tubeless a year ago.

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    If you are using slime, then you dont need cornmeal

  67. #4067
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    Quote Originally Posted by chet wright View Post
    Have you guys been sifting the cornmeal, or is the just the way the bottom of the batch is going to be?
    I noticed this just the other night as I was getting to the bottom of my current batch. Had a couple small cornmeal clogs as well as hair clogs (I use hair shed by my now deceased Great Dane) in my applicator bottle. But since I got my Stan's rims and am unable to use the syringe I got a these bottles to fill my wheels through a cracked bead and they make it much easier to fill a clog than with the syringe.

    I've always made my sealant thicker than everyone else so I've found that on a new tire I need 8oz to seal the bead and still have sealant left in the tire. An 8oz bottle works perfect.

    Getting ready to make another batch and I may just try the watered down version everyone raves about...

    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    Distilled water 32oz
    Propylene Glycol 32oz
    Ammonia 2oz
    Latex 32oz
    Automotive slime 8 oz
    Cornmeal 3/4 cup (strained to remove power, I don't use the really course stuff so no larger pieces).
    What everyone else said... The cornmeal was a chunkulator added to our homebrew to help seal larger holes. The slime has chunkulators in it so using slime and corn meal is probably not necessary. Guess it can't hurt, though...

  68. #4068
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    The cornmeal has bigger chunks that the slime and their all about the size of thorn holes. Just found they seal up faster vs waiting for a slime chunk big enough to plug it.

    I though about eliminating the slime cause cornmeal seems to do better in that area.

    Noticed I mistyped my ratios though cause only 16oz of PG (one 32oz bottle lasts 2 batches).

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  69. #4069
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    Noticed I mistyped my ratios though cause only 16oz of PG (one 32oz bottle lasts 2 batches).
    And you use two 16oz tubs of latex? It's been a couple years since I needed a batch but that seemed like a lot...

  70. #4070
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    No just one big 32oz tub.

    I just looked at my paper I wrote it down on

    Basically 3:1 water to PG (48oz water).

    It's over 3/4 gallon when done. I use a larger amount of latex just due to all the little crap I run over that makes pin holes and does a good job of sealing weapy side walls

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  71. #4071
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    Since I'm getting ready for a new batch I figured I'd go back a few pages and see what everyone is using...

    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    Just mixed a new batch of BAMFSv2.0 -

    2 parts distilled water,
    2 parts PG (Tractor Supply),
    0.3 parts ammonia (Ace hardware),
    1 part latex (Mold Builder),
    1 tbs cornmeal (Kroger white).

    My v2.0 doesn't have the XG in it...I really don't think it helps and seems to make it thicker. This is basically the Stan's clone recipe. Will be installing some new tires so figured I would use my own vs. Stan's.
    Quote Originally Posted by K-999 View Post
    1.0 Latex = 200 ml (i have more in Thailand from tree !!!)
    2.0 PG = 200 ml
    3.0 Water = 150 ml
    4.0 Ammonia = 10ml.

    During mix up
    1.0 Latex + water + Ammonia >> Shake Shake Shake
    2.0 Fill with PG = 100 then >> Shake
    3.0 Fill with PG = 100 then >> Shake

    During shake it will produce WARM liquid,

    and you can see the results during test / For

    https://youtu.be/0A4boPIxVBQ

    https://youtu.be/M--Mx5hONe8
    Quote Originally Posted by Neogen View Post
    OSS v1.0f:
    16 oz PG
    26 oz RO water
    4 oz ammonia
    32 oz latex
    1/2 additional chunkulations

    BAMFS v3.0 (Stan's clone + ammonia + XG.)
    PG/GL : 2 parts - 200ml
    DI water : 2 parts - 200ml
    Latex : 1 part - 100ml
    Ammonia : 0.3 parts - 30ml
    Cornmeal : 1 tbs
    XG : 1 pinch

    Aglo's BAMFS v3.1B
    PG : 2 parts - 200ml
    DI water : 2 parts - 200ml
    Latex : 2 parts - 200ml
    Ammonia : 0.5 parts - 50ml


    My variation: NVI-3
    (for hot and dusty climate)
    Latex (with Ammonia mixed) : 2 parts - 200 ml
    Glycerin : 2 parts - 200 ml
    DI water : 1 part - 100 ml
    Rice powder : 1 tbs
    Quote Originally Posted by bikeCOLORADO View Post
    2 Cups Water
    1 Cup Ethylene Glycol
    1 Cup Latex
    2-3 Tbs Cornmeal or Static Grass (static display grass)

    Skip to 1:10 in the video.
    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    BAMFS 2.0 is as follows:
    Latex: 1 part (Mold Builder @ Hobby Lobby or similar)
    Propylene glycol: 2 parts (Tractor Supply)
    Distilled water: 2 parts
    Ammonia: 0.3 parts (Again, optional)
    Cornmeal: A scoop, how much ever that is.
    Quote Originally Posted by thuren View Post
    My latest mix feels PERFECT!

    Did a 48hour "skin test" compared to Stan's, and they feel almost identical It is VERY watery just like Stan's. I'm about 20% latex. My goal is to try less latex with extra Ammonia, to try and keep the cornmeal active inside the tire. Will report back after a few weeks of use. I'll be giving some friends the mix to try themselves also.

    36oz distilled water
    28oz 98% Propylene Glycol
    2oz 10% Ammonia
    16oz Liquid Latex
    2.5 Stan's 2oz scooper of fine Cornmeal
    Quote Originally Posted by Aglo View Post
    Ok this are the recipes I have saved in my PC, don't know if they are the most recent or not.

    OSS v1.0f:
    16 oz PG
    26 oz RO water
    4 oz ammonia
    32 oz latex
    1/2 additional chunkulations

    BAMFS v3.0 (Stan's clone + ammonia + XG.)
    PG/GL : 2 parts - 200ml
    DI water : 2 parts - 200ml
    Latex : 1 part - 100ml
    Ammonia : 0.3 parts - 30ml
    Cornmeal : 1 tbs
    XG : 1 pinch

    My variation of BAMFS v3.1B
    PG : 2 parts - 200ml
    DI water : 2 parts - 200ml
    Latex : 2 parts - 200ml
    Ammonia : 0.5 parts - 50ml

    I don't add XG.
    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    Well I did it. I had a tub of Mold Builder that was almost a year old, so I decided if I was going to make this mix it had to be sooner rather than later. My 4th pinch flat of the season sealed the deal. The mix would be made.

    32 oz of Propolyene Glycol from Tractor Supply - $22
    32 oz of Distilled Water - $2
    2 oz of Austin's Clear Ammonia from Tractor Supply - $4
    - Mixed in a big glass pickle jar then added
    16 oz Mold Builder Half Price Coupon - $10

    So this is a 2-2-1 mix + ammonia with no chunkalator. Being in the desert I was more worried about it drying out quickly than I am lots of big tears and punctures. I'll add cornmeal if I have problems.
    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    Report on BAMFS v3.0. This is basically Stan's clone + ammonia + XG.

    PG (Tractor Supply) - 2 parts
    DI water - 2 parts
    Latex (mold builder) - 1 part
    Ammonia (Ace brand) - 0.3 parts
    Cornmeal (Kroger) - 1 tbs
    XG (Bob's Redmill) - 1 pinch

    After over 3 mos. popped open my tires to replenish/see what was going on. No boogers. Still moist but most of the free-flowing liquid was gone. Washed out what I could, peeled the smeg off the beads, and added back 1.5 Stan's red scoopers (3 oz) and off I go. I think this mix works well...not sure if the XG does a damn thing, but seems to work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xethur View Post
    Setup my tires for the first time tonight. Lots of shaking due to porous side walls. The Vegetale glycerine mix seems to be working well now that all the pinholes are sealed.

    29oz distilled water
    28oz Vegetable glycerin
    9oz 2% Ammonia
    16oz Liquid Latex
    6oz cornmeal
    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    BAMFSv2.0 is just my Stan's clone OSS:

    1 part latex
    2 parts PG
    2 parts distilled water
    0.3 parts ammonia
    1 tbs cornmeal

    My "part" is a red Stan's scooper.

    Peace.
    Think I'm gonna go with BAMFS... Mine is thicker and works fine but I feel like it's so thick that it not only takes more to keep liquid in the tire it also seems to not last as long. That's part of why I put 8oz in each tire

    Don't have a lot of faith that something as thin as water can work but everyone besides me can't be wrong, right?

  72. #4072
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    That was some dedication, finding and copying all that posts.

    I also had my doubts, but even after removing the XG and not adding any chunklator, it just works.

    I don't have boogers, and I don't need to touch my tires for months, last time I touched my front tire was five months ago.

  73. #4073
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aglo View Post
    That was some dedication, finding and copying all that posts.
    I only went from page 102 to somewhere in the mid 80s. Then I noticed the mid 80s was 2015 so stopped...

  74. #4074
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    bigOmike said... "Don't have a lot of faith that something as thin as water can work but everyone besides me can't be wrong, right?"

    Some observations:

    When you consider that it is a lack of moisture that dries up the sealant, starting out with a thick mix is a handicap, it's like half dried out sealant when it goes in, maybe?

    The thinner the mix, the more quickly and evenly it covers the entire inner wheel surface. The chunks/fibers have to be small enough to stay with the sealant that is hitting the sidewalls, beads, and rim as well.

    I don't see that a plug of plain hardened latex is any weaker than a chunk of corn meal, or rubber chunk, fibers, or whatever, as long as no air is leaving the tire. Any marginal gain in gap plugging ability will be matched by more constant leaking due to the effects of flexing around the larger plug.

    I have observed that the sealant life is affected by the overall porosity of the tire more than anything else. The thicker the sidewall the longer the sealant lasts, or the less you can use. I have always used 2 ozs in my 29er/2.4 tires, but in my arid climate I top off every 30 to 45 days. At 40 gms per oz of sealant, those slightly heavier and thicker sidewalls start to pay off in terms of overall tire/sealant weight.

    Chunkulators "seem" to pay a price in terms of amount required and reduced sealant life.

    Just a few thoughts based on a lot of experience, history, mistakes.
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  75. #4075
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    No cornmeal for me, but finished out another winter using the 1 part H20, Latex, RV antifreeze, auto slime, sometimes watered down a little more than this, as it tends to mix a little thick, but I store like this because it's easy to mix. Down to about -20F or so. Picked up a few big thorns/goatheads in Texas with the mixture, sealed up great.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  76. #4076
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsieb View Post
    bigOmike said... "Don't have a lot of faith that something as thin as water can work but everyone besides me can't be wrong, right?"

    Some observations:

    When you consider that it is a lack of moisture that dries up the sealant, starting out with a thick mix is a handicap, it's like half dried out sealant when it goes in, maybe?

    The thinner the mix, the more quickly and evenly it covers the entire inner wheel surface. The chunks/fibers have to be small enough to stay with the sealant that is hitting the sidewalls, beads, and rim as well.

    I don't see that a plug of plain hardened latex is any weaker than a chunk of corn meal, or rubber chunk, fibers, or whatever, as long as no air is leaving the tire. Any marginal gain in gap plugging ability will be matched by more constant leaking due to the effects of flexing around the larger plug.

    I have observed that the sealant life is affected by the overall porosity of the tire more than anything else. The thicker the sidewall the longer the sealant lasts, or the less you can use. I have always used 2 ozs in my 29er/2.4 tires, but in my arid climate I top off every 30 to 45 days. At 40 gms per oz of sealant, those slightly heavier and thicker sidewalls start to pay off in terms of overall tire/sealant weight.

    Chunkulators "seem" to pay a price in terms of amount required and reduced sealant life.

    Just a few thoughts based on a lot of experience, history, mistakes.
    All good points. And, the experience of everyone else is why I'm gonna give it a try. But, I may be misrepresenting my version and how thick it is. It's only slightly thicker than everyone else's. It has no problems coating the inside of the tire nor keeping the chunks suspended so they can fill holes when needed. I'd say my last batch and it's almost complete lack of boogers demonstrated that.

    My point was merely that when you think of things that plug holes it's natural to think that a syrup is going to plug a hole better than would water. Likewise, a sink of syrup filled with dog hair is gonna plug the drain better than water alone. I know there are other things going on like the shear effect, spoke of many moons ago, that is the reason why the latex hardens as it's violently expelled so that "thickness" theory of mine doesn't necessarily hold water, so to speak. It's still hard to think that thicker is not better than thinner.

    It's like knowing if you carry a buttload of speed through that rock garden and let your suspension work you'll get through it faster and smoother. But, as you approach it your brain is telling you you're gonna kill yourself if you don't slow down

    I will also agree that a chunk of latex sealing a hole is no better or worse if it has some form of chunkulator in it. The issue is that those chunkulators will allow the sealant to work on a larger hole. Sure, it's not necessary as often since most punctures are from goat heads or tiny thorns, but that's to each person's preference. I'll keep them because I've seen them work first hand when they sealed a hole nearly 1/8" in dia. that allowed me to pedal off the trail that day. When I was adding sealant and reinflating that tire a couple days later it completely blew out but I didn't have a HaB to get home that day.

  77. #4077
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    Just got a scale to weigh MTB parts and my Rocket Ron is weighing in at 730G!!!
    This means that I have close to 100grams of dried home-brew on the tire!

    What's the preferred method for removing this? Hot soap and water with some elbow grease?

    Was hoping something like baking soda would just take it off LOL

    I do the Latex PG Slime h20 mixture, i leave it thicker than stans would be and the sealant is laid on pretty thick. I don't think it's 100% dry even though it's been sitting out for a 6-8 months without use because I can't peel it off in big chunks.

  78. #4078
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    Just peel it off, that's what I did with my Orange​Seal buildup... And make a nice little ball just like this:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/_fqiy-tJJK/


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  79. #4079
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toot3344556 View Post
    Just got a scale to weigh MTB parts and my Rocket Ron is weighing in at 730G!!!
    This means that I have close to 100grams of dried home-brew on the tire!
    IF you weighed the tire to know it is 630g. Claimed Tire weights are notoriously inaccurate.

    On top of that the sidewall is paper thin and cleaning that sealant off will mean the tire does not hold air well.

    I have one on the rear and if I wash it (outside) the air pressure drops overnight due to the sidewall holes getting cleaned. I can see bubbles all over as air leaks out.

    I'd leave it as is unless you don't mind a tire getting soft during a ride.

  80. #4080
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toot3344556 View Post
    Just got a scale to weigh MTB parts and my Rocket Ron is weighing in at 730G!!!
    This means that I have close to 100grams of dried home-brew on the tire!
    I wish I could feel the difference an extra 100 grams on my bike makes. I've probably got that much mud on my bike right now...

    And, I'm not trying to make fun of you weight weenies. I'm certain there are people that can feel the difference 100 grams makes, or 1# of extra air in a tire. I can't and I'm guessing 99% of people that own a bike can't. I didn't notice a difference when I upgraded a bunch of components and took my 160mm rig from 36# to 30.5#. Well, I notice the difference when I lift it on my back for a HaB...

    Oh... to be a 1%er!

  81. #4081
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    I have too loose a lb off a wheel/tire combo to notice. Like the heavy ass tubes that came with my plus bike, just over a lb each (let's not even talk OEM fat bike tubes lol). Lost over 1.5lbs per wheel swapping tires and going tubeless because tape was factory installed already.

    If I don't see any bad reports of Durocs being too soft when those hoops with new hubs/spokes will save another lb per wheel. 1-200 grams I don't notice, 1lb on up I definitely notice with climbing around here.

    I have never removed the sealant skin off the inside of my tires, I leave it unless it gets really thick and hard (using CO2 for trail head top off and not swapping with air when I get home). Otherwise once first batch has formed the skin but still wet feeling I add a bit more sealant and don't touch till I have to pull the tire off. Never notice the weight difference there from new on through. Body adapts to it pretty quick.

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  82. #4082
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    Best Tubeless Brew?

    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    I wish I could feel the difference an extra 100 grams on my bike makes. I've probably got that much mud on my bike right now...

    And, I'm not trying to make fun of you weight weenies. I'm certain there are people that can feel the difference 100 grams makes, or 1# of extra air in a tire. I can't and I'm guessing 99% of people that own a bike can't. I didn't notice a difference when I upgraded a bunch of components and took my 160mm rig from 36# to 30.5#. Well, I notice the difference when I lift it on my back for a HaB...

    Oh... to be a 1%er!
    Mostly cuz its the wheel.
    Only reason I'd go back to RR is yo save some weight.

    Not worried about leakage. New sealant will cover.

    For the record, I usually leave the sealant in but this specific sealant in this tire is really caked on thick. And I think I didn't dilute with water for this batch.

    Also, the texture is different. I can't peel big chunks off like I usually can.
    Maybe it's not completely cured.

    Also, I might sell the tire and won't get top valve for it but there's a point where the time investment isn't worth it.

    I also can notice a difference but it's more like a fatigue factor. Over time I realize that I'm working harder.
    Right now running race kings and big apple foe gravel events. Had 2.35 ralphs last season which were around 700 so about 100 grams heavier than the racekings then in the winter I run a fat b nimble and dirt wizard and those are definitely noticeable.

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  83. #4083
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    I found that just a thick towel is kind of good at scrapping sealant off.

    Also did some hot soapy water, helped but still is a chore.

    One small section tool off 30g's lol.

    Don't know how much the tire actually weighs


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  84. #4084
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    So I removed probably a lb of sealant from a couple different tires.

    All had different difficulties of removing sealant. Some flaking off and some coming off in big chunks.

    I think a way to improve here is to add some sort of fiber as not a only a chunkulator but a binding agent to keep the sealant glued together when removing.

    I used to add dog hair or laundry lint and this is what was keeping the dried sealant together.
    It's kind of like the way carbon fiber works ...

    So I think I may try some fiberglass strands... What do you'll think ?

  85. #4085
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    Mike, I've been using:
    1 part slime
    1 part latex
    1 part pg
    1 part water

    However, I would like to remove the slime and add my own chunkulator.

    Question is, do I need more Ammonia because the slime may have some ?
    Should I increase the PG or H2o in absence of the slime?

    Thanks

  86. #4086
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toot3344556 View Post
    Mike, I've been using:
    1 part slime
    1 part latex
    1 part pg
    1 part water

    However, I would like to remove the slime and add my own chunkulator.

    Question is, do I need more Ammonia because the slime may have some ?
    Should I increase the PG or H2o in absence of the slime?

    Thanks
    That's a pretty thick mix, using 2 parts water will work better. A half cup of ammonia won't hurt, might help it last longer. I think the slime is a wash as far as thickness, just leave it out.
    I ride with the best dogs.




  87. #4087
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsieb View Post
    That's a pretty thick mix, using 2 parts water will work better. A half cup of ammonia won't hurt, might help it last longer. I think the slime is a wash as far as thickness, just leave it out.
    Thanks, one less thing to buy too.
    Im going try some carbon fiber strands.

    Im thinking like a half inch size... too small too big ?


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  88. #4088
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toot3344556 View Post
    Thanks, one less thing to buy too.
    Im going try some carbon fiber strands.

    Im thinking like a half inch size... too small too big ?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    They need to be small enough to stay in suspension on the sidewalls... so they can stop those 1/4" cuts. Plain latex without any chunks or fibers will seal a lot too.
    I ride with the best dogs.




  89. #4089
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsieb View Post
    They need to be small enough to stay in suspension on the sidewalls... so they can stop those 1/4" cuts. Plain latex without any chunks or fibers will seal a lot too.
    I want the fiber for the removal aspect... It will use the latex like glue and be easier to pull off after dried while also doubling as a chunkulator.

    Do you have any issues removing a more diluted solution?

  90. #4090
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toot3344556 View Post
    I want the fiber for the removal aspect... It will use the latex like glue and be easier to pull off after dried while also doubling as a chunkulator.

    Do you have any issues removing a more diluted solution?
    There is nothing to remove, if nothing ever dries out. Seriously, I just ride the tires until they wear out, any buildup is too thin to bother with. I pull the bead back once a month to check sealant levels and top off if necessary, I like to maintain a ~6" long puddle in the bottom, pour it in right out of the jug. Never any surprises this way, until you get a big side wall cut... my most recent was a pair of cuts about 1" long, in a brand new Ikon TR, of course. Took a dollar bill and a tube.
    I ride with the best dogs.




  91. #4091
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    I'm a noobie doing the conversion to tubeless using the last​ iteration on WSS formula. Never tried tubeless before. I'm using WTB Moto raptor tires 2.24, on the alexrims DM18.
    Started with rear wheel, using 20" tube ghetto style. Very difficult to inflate, finally got a 2gallon compressor with 0.2 scfm and a rope pressing the tire to the rim. It inflated but very soon flat again because big holes on the tire and​ near the bead. I patched them with normal tube patch and after repeated the process with the rope I got it. 2 days flipping it over in the morning and at night. It still bleeds but it is retaining the air pressure very well.

    After what I considered a success on my rear tire I got the gorilla tape and tubeless valve from eBay to convert the front wheel. But despite the tire looks in much better condition than the rear one, I am not able to seat the beads well. I used the rope like on the rear, but the tire looks more loose on the rim now that I am using gorilla tape instead of the 20" tire. I got the help of my wife and kid to push the tire to the rim, even I borrow a bigger compressor from a friend with 10 gallons and 5 scfm, and still no success. Wrapped the tire with food plastic and as my wife suggested and still couldn't​ inflate it. My last try is to put a tube inside having the solution still on the tire then brushed the beads with the solution and finally after inflated I applied clear silicone on one side of the tire and rim. My plan is tomorrow to separate the opposite side, take out the tube install the valve and try again to inflate it. If no luck I will purchase a 20" tube and do it like the rear wheel.


    Update: finally the 20" tube ghetto style did the trick

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    Last edited by Vallecino; 04-30-2017 at 04:22 PM.

  92. #4092
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    ^Best thing is to go for a ride, even around the block a few times, keeps the sealant distributed so everything can seal up. Once the tires have been for a ride or two, you can break the beads and they will go back easily with a floor pump. Also starting with old tires can be difficult because the beads may be deformed (stretched) if they have been inflated higher than ~35 psi. If you use threaded valve stems they can be tightened down with the nut to seal them. Rock on... it's all about trying stuff.
    I ride with the best dogs.




  93. #4093
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    Best Tubeless Brew?

    Best Tubeless Brew?-img_2986.jpg

    Nothing to pull of my ass !



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    Last edited by Toot3344556; 04-30-2017 at 07:29 PM.

  94. #4094
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    ^Yeah, that's your mix, not mine. Mine doesn't do that. Sorry about your ass...
    I ride with the best dogs.




  95. #4095
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsieb View Post
    ^Yeah, that's your mix, not mine. Mine doesn't do that. Sorry about your ass...
    No biggie, my arse is fine. Lol, my biggest problem is I swap tires a lot and sometimes I neglect removing (still wet sealant).

    So let's work on my horrible mixture.

    Based off your rec. above:

    1 part latex
    1 part PG
    2 part water
    1/2 part ammonia

    Look good to you ?

    When you say Top off? do you mean with more sealant or with Ammonia?

  96. #4096
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    ^I think it would be a good place to start.

    I top off with more sealant, keep the puddle about 6" long. When you pour in the initial 2 ozs. make note of the puddle size.

    Isn't any minimal buildup offset by tire wear, so the weight would stay the same?
    I ride with the best dogs.




  97. #4097
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsieb View Post
    Seriously, I just ride the tires until they wear out, any buildup is too thin to bother with.
    That's been my experience as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by bsieb View Post
    ^Best thing is to go for a ride, even around the block a few times, keeps the sealant distributed so everything can seal up. Once the tires have been for a ride or two, you can break the beads and they will go back easily with a floor pump.
    A buddy told me about this and it works pretty well: Take an old rim, put a tube and a new tire on, and pump it up to ~40# Let it sit for a day or two or a week and it helps form the tire and bead into the shape it's supposed to be in instead of folded up on a shelf.

    It's also a good trick for putting on tape and making sure it's all stuck to the rim.

  98. #4098
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    BOM- Good idea, but I would be careful about going much over 25 psi on that pre-seating because it can stretch the bead and make it looser, since I only run 20 psi normally.
    I ride with the best dogs.




  99. #4099
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsieb View Post
    BOM- Good idea, but I would be careful about going much over 25 psi on that pre-seating because it can stretch the bead and make it looser, since I only run 20 psi normally.
    With the weak-ass EXO casings on my DHFs I can't run less than about 27# or I'd be buying new wheels every year. When I ran the heavier UST tires I could do 22#...

    Realistically, I probably pump it up to 30# or 32#. Just harder than "normal" for me.

  100. #4100
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    ^Yes, just common sense. I'm using Ikon 2.35 TR, beefy sidewalls. I buy the HEaviest ones on the rack...
    I ride with the best dogs.




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