Page 3 of 43 FirstFirst 123456713 ... LastLast
Results 201 to 300 of 4263
  1. #201
    Dr Gadget is IN
    Reputation: wadester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    2,352
    Quote Originally Posted by William_Cannon
    I'm going to try ghetto tubeless using the tube/homebrew method. Any changes to your WSS recipe?

    1 part Latex mold builder
    1 part Slime tubeless
    1 part cheap antifreeze
    2 parts water

    Thanks in advance,
    Will

    Oh and could someone advise which slime to get? Is "tubeless slime", the tube sealant you pick up at the bike shop?
    No change to the basic WSS recipe. Tubeless slime is the one with the black flecks of ground up rubber in it - listed for automotive use. Glitter doesn't seem to add value, so that's out. I want to try the silica beads that someone mentioned previously, but haven't.

    Good practice finds that you do not add the antifreeze directly to the latex, since that seems to cause coagulation. My bet is slime/one water, mix well. Latex, mix well. then antifreeze/other water. I mix in a jug that just barely fits my quantity, so mixing the last bit is difficult.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  2. #202
    singletrack bound
    Reputation: Tone No Balone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    2,657
    I'm not completely sold on the 50/50 stan's slime mixture as the front Prowler is weeping out either the bead and or side wall regulary. The rear ignitor is dry and sealed. Can't complain too much because they are both holding air for the most part, just seepage. It's all cosmetic for the most part. Guess the slime will keep the stan's from drying and may lenghten the time before having to re-stanz my tires. I dunno.....
    Stanz alone worked fine for me as far as I'm concerned.
    Tone.

  3. #203
    Austin, TX
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    89
    I came to the same conclusion in the last couple weeks on the 50/50 mix. Both my tubeless 29ers got new tires recently. I filled one wheelset with 1:1 Stan's and Tubeless Slime. The other was filled 2:1 Stan's and Slime. The 1:1 set has been weeping constantly, even dripping onto my floor. The 2:1 mix however is completely dry and hasn't lost more than a pound of pressure in two weeks. I'm going to open up the 1:1 set and dilute with Stan's this afternoon.

  4. #204
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    4,667
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDee
    Not a real issue. Anodized rims will be protected for the most part unless you really scratch them up, but with tubeless conversions and Stan's rims a strip is on the bottom, thus the rim is not exposed to the sealant. I really don't think it's all that reactive with aluminum anyways.

  5. #205
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    993
    After trying Stans/Slime/Superjuice in veries mixes its still drying out in 3 months here.
    I'm going to mix my first batch of home brew tonight. I have all the ingredients. I just have one question. I looked through all the anti-freeze at the auto parts store and could only find O'Reilly antifreeze/coolant that was Ethylene Glycol but it also has Diethylene Glycol and other additives for corrosion inhibitors and defoaming. Will this work? Or should I look for something else?

  6. #206
    trail rat
    Reputation: slocaus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,817
    Quote Originally Posted by Tone No Balone
    I'm not completely sold on the 50/50 stan's slime mixture as the front Prowler is weeping out either the bead and or side wall regulary. The rear ignitor is dry and sealed. Can't complain too much because they are both holding air for the most part, just seepage. It's all cosmetic for the most part. Guess the slime will keep the stan's from drying and may lenghten the time before having to re-stanz my tires. I dunno.....
    Stanz alone worked fine for me as far as I'm concerned.
    Tone.
    Same here Tony, with 2 Stans to 1 tubeless Slime, my Prowler, Rampages, WW255lt, and Ignitor weeped, Prowler the worst, and it would leave a puddle on the floor. Only the Mountain King and Ardent did not weep with that mix. I am back to straight Stans for now, and the weeping has stopped.

    The Caffee Latex looks very good from the posts I have seen. I was impressed with one guy who had Stans, too big a hole for it to seal, added the Caffee and it sealed.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

    CCCMB trail work for trail access - SLO, CA

  7. #207
    is buachail foighneach me
    Reputation: sean salach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    6,589
    Quote Originally Posted by azpoolguy
    After trying Stans/Slime/Superjuice in veries mixes its still drying out in 3 months here.
    I'm going to mix my first batch of home brew tonight. I have all the ingredients. I just have one question. I looked through all the anti-freeze at the auto parts store and could only find O'Reilly antifreeze/coolant that was Ethylene Glycol but it also has Diethylene Glycol and other additives for corrosion inhibitors and defoaming. Will this work? Or should I look for something else?

    it'll probably work, but ethylene glycol is very dangerous for pets. it's dangerous for people too, but we're less likely to ingest it. and if a person does... well... natural selection... if you add the propylene glycol to the mix last, it works fine, and PG is signifigantly less toxic. so i reccomend the pg.

  8. #208
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    993

    Good job!

    Home brew is mixed and in my tires. I used the ATV/Lawnmower Slime from the auto parts store. It looks to have the same size and chunk quantity as the tubeless Slime. I mixed everything in a plastic bucket and added the antifreeze last. It looks good and it made 2qts. with enough left over to top off my tires.
    Now time will tell how long it lasts. We have already set records for the most days over a 100 degrees for May!

  9. #209
    4 Niners
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,124
    Propylene glycol does not work (or at least is reported in other posts not to work). That is why you are supposed to get the "old type" antifreeze. Old Antifreeze is Ethylene Glycol and it is a green color. It is harmful if ingested. That is seldom a problem for humans, but dogs seem to like the flavor and will easily drink enough to die so if you spill some, wipe it up. Most other animals such as cats do not find it appealing so the problem is mainly with dogs.

    Sean Salach: are you saying that PG works but that you have to add it last? The fact of adding it last might mean that what you get is not so much an emulsion/solution but a suspension. The test is that I can leave a jar mixed sealer sitting for a month and nothing seperates out. In other words all the chemicals are totally in solution and that would be necessary for it to work correctly. Have you mixed PG and had a stable mixture? Or does it tend to seperate out over time? This is probably why Stan's dries out over 3 months time. It is more of a suspension in that if Stans sits even for a day, the laytex tends to settle to the bottom. I would be interested in knowing for sure that PG works as well as EG.

  10. #210
    is buachail foighneach me
    Reputation: sean salach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    6,589
    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy
    Propylene glycol does not work (or at least is reported in other posts not to work). That is why you are supposed to get the "old type" antifreeze. Old Antifreeze is Ethylene Glycol and it is a green color. It is harmful if ingested. That is seldom a problem for humans, but dogs seem to like the flavor and will easily drink enough to die so if you spill some, wipe it up. Most other animals such as cats do not find it appealing so the problem is mainly with dogs.

    Sean Salach: are you saying that PG works but that you have to add it last? The fact of adding it last might mean that what you get is not so much an emulsion/solution but a suspension. The test is that I can leave a jar mixed sealer sitting for a month and nothing seperates out. In other words all the chemicals are totally in solution and that would be necessary for it to work correctly. Have you mixed PG and had a stable mixture? Or does it tend to seperate out over time? This is probably why Stan's dries out over 3 months time. It is more of a suspension in that if Stans sits even for a day, the laytex tends to settle to the bottom. I would be interested in knowing for sure that PG works as well as EG.

    i haven't touched my container of mix, which has @ 1 part pg antifreeze, since i mixed it up and converted that one tire. it is still mixed as well as the minute i did it. there has been no seperation and no congealing. i haven't added air to the tire i converted and it is still holding.

    so PROPYLENE GLYCOL DOES WORK! (in bold and caps to make it noticeable only because you said it doesn't.)

  11. #211
    is buachail foighneach me
    Reputation: sean salach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    6,589
    just checked my post, it was "three weeks" ago according to mtbr. i'll go get photos.

  12. #212
    is buachail foighneach me
    Reputation: sean salach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    6,589
    regarding the toxicity of ethylene glycol: as little as three tablespoons can kill a 22 lb dog. ref: http://www.petplace.com/dogs/ethylen...ogs/page1.aspx


    photos of my mix with propylene glycol after a little over three weeks.

    components(+ water)




    mix, after sitting in container, unshaken(unshook?) for three weeks. no seperation.





    the kung fu gorilla setup it's been in for the entire time:


  13. #213
    4 Niners
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,124
    This is good new information in the ongoing quest for the perfect sealant. Good work!

  14. #214
    Dr Gadget is IN
    Reputation: wadester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    2,352
    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    i haven't touched my container of mix, which has @ 1 part pg antifreeze, since i mixed it up and converted that one tire. it is still mixed as well as the minute i did it. there has been no seperation and no congealing. i haven't added air to the tire i converted and it is still holding.

    so PROPYLENE GLYCOL DOES WORK! (in bold and caps to make it noticeable only because you said it doesn't.)
    When I had the fail batch, it was not the milky green color - the latex looked like egg drop soup strings in a clear flourescent green base.

    And HEY! what container is that you're mixing in?? Capacity and material?
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  15. #215
    is buachail foighneach me
    Reputation: sean salach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    6,589
    http://www.rubbermaid.com/rubbermaid...d=HPProd210002

    rubbermaid 1 gal mixermate. with 1 gallon of fluid in there there is enough room left over to shake it up. i bought mine at wallyworld. get's some bad reviews on that site, none of which are applicable to storing tubeless sealant.

  16. #216
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Velobike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    7,004
    This is a fascinating thread. I love DIY bike stuff.

    I'm thinking of trying tubeless, but I don't like the idea of all the mixtures unless there's no option.

    SO before I venture into these sticky waters, are there any tubeless tyres that do not require these goos?

    And what happens if you get a flat on the trail - can you re-inflate with a handpump, or do you have to stick a tube in?

    The latter is my main concern, because the weight saving is negated if I have to carry a tube - patches are fine
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 5736' Highlands, Scotland

  17. #217
    4 Niners
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,124
    UST tires don't require "goo" but you would have to have UST rims and UST tires. UST Rims and Tires are generally very heavy. If you get a flat on the trail, you can reinflate with a hand pump since if it is a slow leak that won't seal, you can just keep adding air. The tire would not generally dismount from the rim edge. If you do have to put a tube in, then you could obviously inflate with a hand pump.

    I don't understand the part about not carrying a tube-do you not carry a tube now? If not, what happens when your tube gets a big hole in it? Also, most carry a 26 tube as it is lighter and will easily stretch to 29 and also it lets you help your 26er buddy.

  18. #218
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Davidcopperfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,776
    Caffelatex works fine with Slime What about fixing them all three- what proportions? 2/4 Stan's, 1/4 Slime and 1/4 Caffelatex?

  19. #219
    trail rat
    Reputation: slocaus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,817
    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield
    Caffelatex works fine with Slime What about fixing them all three- what proportions? 2/4 Stan's, 1/4 Slime and 1/4 Caffelatex?
    What do you think adding Slime and Stans would be an additional benefit that Caffee Latex does not provide?
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

    CCCMB trail work for trail access - SLO, CA

  20. #220
    mtbr member
    Reputation: William_Cannon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    304
    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    No change to the basic WSS recipe. Tubeless slime is the one with the black flecks of ground up rubber in it - listed for automotive use. Glitter doesn't seem to add value, so that's out. I want to try the silica beads that someone mentioned previously, but haven't.

    Good practice finds that you do not add the antifreeze directly to the latex, since that seems to cause coagulation. My bet is slime/one water, mix well. Latex, mix well. then antifreeze/other water. I mix in a jug that just barely fits my quantity, so mixing the last bit is difficult.
    Thanks, I used the WSS recipe except I used ATV/Mower Slime which has more chunks. I'm hoping it's enough chunky matter so I don't have to add anything else. I did look at silica beads, but I thought they seemed pretty big. I'm having some issues seating my tire so it may be a little while before I can report back.

    Thanks again,
    WC

  21. #221
    otb member
    Reputation: craigshaf's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    330
    My Stan's dried up in less than 2 months.
    Time to try the WSS. I got me the latex and slime, but have a question obout the Antifreeze.

    I have a bottle of RV antifreeze for the septic tanks and all.
    It says is contains the PE.

    Will this work out?
    The wheels on my bike go 'round and 'round

  22. #222
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    993
    I believe EG works the best but I'm not the expert. Read back a few posts and there is some info about PG vs. EG.

  23. #223
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    729
    I'm going to make up some WSS to convert the new bike over once I get it.

    In case people are looking for a source, Michael's craft store has mold builder - I paid $15 for a pint yesterday.

  24. #224
    4 Niners
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,124
    I don't think anybody has tried RV plumbing antifreeze. You would be the first.

  25. #225
    Dr Gadget is IN
    Reputation: wadester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    2,352
    Quote Originally Posted by craigshaf
    My Stan's dried up in less than 2 months.
    Time to try the WSS. I got me the latex and slime, but have a question obout the Antifreeze.

    I have a bottle of RV antifreeze for the septic tanks and all.
    It says is contains the PE.

    Will this work out?
    I looked up RV plumbing antifreeze - what it is, is 25-30% Propylene Glycol mixed with water. If you use this stuff you don't need 2 parts water - just 3 parts RVPAF.

    And let us know how it mixed up.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  26. #226
    otb member
    Reputation: craigshaf's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    330
    Thanks! I'll be mixing it up this coming weekend.
    Pinched yesterday at Annadale - man I hate tubes...
    The wheels on my bike go 'round and 'round

  27. #227
    mtbr member
    Reputation: William_Cannon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    304
    Here is my 2 week report on the WSS:
    - I'm running the WSS on ghetto tubeless WTB Weirwolves.
    - I'm holding air pretty well, but do have to pump up the tires a bit after about a week.
    - Weirwolves have a radial pattern of pinholes on the sidewalls that repeat themselves every inch or so. I've been oozing through those holes and can't seem to get them to seal. I've laid the tires on their sides multiple times without success.


    Any advice? I just ordered the RACE versions of the Weirwolf and Rear Velociraptor. Hopefully those tires won't have this issue.
    Last edited by William_Cannon; 06-20-2009 at 12:26 PM.

  28. #228
    otb member
    Reputation: craigshaf's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    330
    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    I looked up RV plumbing antifreeze - what it is, is 25-30% Propylene Glycol mixed with water. If you use this stuff you don't need 2 parts water - just 3 parts RVPAF.

    And let us know how it mixed up.
    I mixed it up Friday evening and remounted my Rampage 29x2.35. Mounted up pretty easily with a floor pump. Big tear right down the center bead of the tire. It sealed the hole up. Took it out for a beating today and it held air really well. Saw a couple of spots along the bead seal themselves at the beginning of the ride, but that must have stopped since I have plenty of pressure after a good rocky beating at Llyods in Truckee today.

    As recommended by the mix master himself, I mixed 1 pt. Slime, 1 pt. mold builder, 3 pts. RV antifreeze (PE).


    Mixed and shook it up real well in a glass jar I got from my local bulk food store.


    Put 6 oz. in the tire. Looks good.

    Thanks for this thread!!
    The wheels on my bike go 'round and 'round

  29. #229
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    16
    Okay just went to Hobby Lobby and they were clueless on the Latex Mold Builder. I seen a jar of Latex Rubber made by Woodland Ssenics...is this the same stuff? Where in Hobby Lobby did you guys find this Mold Builder?

  30. #230
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    993
    8 to 10 steps to the right of the front door by the scenery supplies. I think you saw the same stuff I used. Its labeled Liquid Latex I believe.

  31. #231
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    58
    Quote Originally Posted by William_Cannon
    I've been oozing through those holes and can't seem to get them to seal. I've laid the tires on their sides multiple times without success.
    I have had the same issue. With all of my ghetto set ups (about 6 mo.). And one anomaly where the tire lost pressure when I set the bike down on its side. Then was good for a week, did the same next time I laid it down. Used one suggestion here about scrubbing the wax off of the inside of the tire, but it didn't eliminate the oozing. This oozing seems to happen only when I roll the tire after it has been setting overnight. The only issue that I believe is related to the oozing is depletion of sealant. I did have two tires dry up on me after about 2 months. To clarify "oozing" it looks like .5 mm (or less) little droplets, but no drips from each breach point. Since I see this after the tire sets for a while, it must be some stratification in the sealant.

    Here is what I have used:
    25-28psi front
    28-32psi rear

    20" Rim Strip
    2.1 WTB Velocirapter
    2.1 Scwhalbe Rocket Ron ORC
    2.4 Schwalbe Racing Ralph
    2.4 Schwalbe NN Snake Skin
    2.2 Stans Raven

    1 SL
    1 MB
    1 EG
    2 WDx

  32. #232
    Reviewer/Tester
    Reputation: Rainman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    6,176

    No good Too much EG

    It's the Ethylene Glycol that leaks from the sidewalls. I've had that experience in the past with some homebrews when I used too much EG in the mix.

    In my opinion, most of you are using too much of it in your brews. If you want to cut down that leaking of EG from the sidewalls, then stop using so much in your mixtures.

    Two parts Stans or Latex Mold Builder, one part Slime and some additive for helping to seal up bigger holes like ground up rubber particles or similar is all you need. The Slime already contains enough EG to stop the Stans from drying up.... so why add more?

    Just try this mix for yourselves.

    Rainman.
    It is inevitable ...

  33. #233
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    58
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    Two parts Stans or Latex Mold Builder, one part Slime and some additive for helping to seal up bigger holes like ground up rubber particles or similar is all you need.Rainman.
    Thanks for the tip! No other liquid with this, water or windex? I've always thought the mix I have been using was too diluted.

  34. #234
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    729
    Mixed up my sauce and did my first tubeless conversion this afternoon.

    Sauce mixage - easy.

    Tubeless conversion - make sure to not forget about the soapy water. I used a spray bottle and the only problem I had was one side of the MK2.4 had a lot of leaks. This was the side that only got a brief shot of soapy water before inflation. The other side and the rear ardent sealed up just fine, inflated with floor pump. Had the compressor handy just in case.

    Assuming these are fine tomorrow, I'll help my buddy do the same.

  35. #235
    Reviewer/Tester
    Reputation: Rainman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    6,176
    Nope, no other liquid needed. The chunky Slime contains enough EG to prevent the Stans drying out over six months depending on the ambient temperatures where you ride.


    Rainman.

    Quote Originally Posted by Treetrimmer
    Thanks for the tip! No other liquid with this, water or windex? I've always thought the mix I have been using was too diluted.
    It is inevitable ...

  36. #236
    Hairshirt Rider
    Reputation: Loudpawlz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,869
    PSA - I was in Michaels today and got a 50% off coupon with my purchase of art supplies for my kid. That'll be good for about a $8 serving of mold builder.

  37. #237
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    447
    Went to mix some more homebrew on Wednesday. I certainly thought I had the cap on my mold builder on tightly, but must not have... I'm pretty sure I recall being able to pour that stuff last year.

    I might have to break down and get some Stans. Right now I'm on a slightly watered-down/Windshield fluid/Slime mix and it's ok.

  38. #238
    Dr Gadget is IN
    Reputation: wadester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    2,352
    I found that leaving the latex in the jar, you get at least a thick dry layer on top. But once you mix it up as sealant it doesn't seem to change. This is why I mix a full jar of latex at a time. It just sits there mixed in the container, as unchanging as a twinkie. Shake before use is more to get the fibers/chunks evenly spread.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  39. #239
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    447
    That's a good idea. I thought I mixed up enough to last a while, but the full-jar method is a wiser approach. My year-old latex turned into a solid blob.

    Live and learn.
    Last edited by racerdave; 07-06-2009 at 04:52 PM.

  40. #240
    otb member
    Reputation: craigshaf's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    330

    Settling

    Do you notice settling when it sits?

    Mine settles so that there is a layer of grey stuff (probably slime stuff?) in the bottom. Shaking vigorously mixes it back up.

    Stuff seems to work just fine, even though it is having a hard time sealing up an old tear in my rear rampage. I think I might be asking too much of it there. That said, even that stays pretty well sealed.
    The wheels on my bike go 'round and 'round

  41. #241
    Dr Gadget is IN
    Reputation: wadester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    2,352
    Quote Originally Posted by craigshaf
    Do you notice settling when it sits?

    Mine settles so that there is a layer of grey stuff (probably slime stuff?) in the bottom. Shaking vigorously mixes it back up.

    Stuff seems to work just fine, even though it is having a hard time sealing up an old tear in my rear rampage. I think I might be asking too much of it there. That said, even that stays pretty well sealed.
    I got a sidewall cut in a Rampage - was sealing but wouldn't hold much pressure w/o popping open. I took that tire and put a patch on the inside, which lasted a bit more than a month before pulling loose - the sealant would seal it until the tire flexed, then it would let pressure/sealant out. The problem was that the tire threads had been cut, so the tear would really stretch under pressure. Got a needle and thread and whipstitched the cut. Sealant closed that right up, still going strong/dry after a couple weeks.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  42. #242
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    61
    Has anyone tried slime pro tubeless?

    http://www.slime.com/product/781/(10...-Sealant-.html

  43. #243
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Broccoli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    5,762
    Got a liter of CaffeLatex. Will see how it works.

  44. #244
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    109
    Quote Originally Posted by Ev52
    Has anyone tried slime pro tubeless?

    http://www.slime.com/product/781/(10...-Sealant-.html
    A friend of mine was saying good things about this stuff, but it's about twice as expensive as Stan's. If it lasts more than twice as long though...

  45. #245
    trail rat
    Reputation: slocaus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,817
    Quote Originally Posted by Ev52
    Has anyone tried slime pro tubeless?

    http://www.slime.com/product/781/(10...-Sealant-.html
    Slime is local to me, about 10 miles away. I know about four guys locally who have used it, but all are riding full UST rims and tires on 26" bikes. I have not talked to anyone who has done a conversion using it. I'll talk to the buyer at the shop and see if they will get me some to try, since I have worn out a couple more tires and need to replace them.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

    CCCMB trail work for trail access - SLO, CA

  46. #246
    Dr Gadget is IN
    Reputation: wadester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    2,352
    Quote Originally Posted by Ev52
    Has anyone tried slime pro tubeless?

    http://www.slime.com/product/781/(10...-Sealant-.html

    This is funny. $19/pt for what is basically WSS -
    I looked at the MSDS:
    https://secure.slime.com/images/uplo...ealantmsds.pdf

    And altho it doesn't give specific ingredients, it clearly describes latex. It undoubtedly has propylene glycol antifreeze (since that is in regular slime) but that is nontoxic and doesn't have to be listed.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  47. #247
    mtbr member
    Reputation: William_Cannon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    304
    Anyone figure out how not to get boogers in their tires? After running the WSS (using ATV slime) for a couple of months, I found a cubic inch booger made of latex+black rubber chunks. I used Prestone EG, could that contributed to it?

  48. #248
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Broccoli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    5,762
    Quote Originally Posted by William_Cannon
    Anyone figure out how not to get boogers in their tires?

  49. #249
    trail rat
    Reputation: slocaus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,817
    Quote Originally Posted by William_Cannon
    Anyone figure out how not to get boogers in their tires? After running the WSS (using ATV slime) for a couple of months, I found a cubic inch booger made of latex+black rubber chunks. I used Prestone EG, could that contributed to it?
    Originally I posted the response below in this thread.

    I see it as Stan's doing its job. I get them occasionally with straight Stan's or mixed with tubeless Slime. The sizes vary.

    When something punctures the tire, Stan's will coagulate to seal the hole. If a thorn goes through, the Stan's will bunch at the end of the thorn to seal, but may continue to "grow". The sloshing will eventually break this "koosh ball" loose and it will roll around, likely growing.

    One tire that I wore out spent many miles in goatshead infested territory. When I removed the tire to replace it, I had probable 20+ little growths around the inside of the tire, and about four "kooshes" rolling around, all average marble size. I checked the growths attached to the tire inside, and sure enough, there was a thorn tip under them. Just for fun, I went searching for thorns, and gave up after I found around 20! That tire never deflated, and required about 2-3psi every three days or so. Yahoo Stan's!

    I just add about an ounce of Stan's every 2-3 months, depending on the temperatures. Only once did I notice the sound you mentioned, and popped the bead to remove the koosh. Usually I recharge with the Stan's Injector and do not worry about it.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

    CCCMB trail work for trail access - SLO, CA

  50. #250
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jocnc1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    26
    yeah, I'm kind of curious about the buggers too.
    I'm running the;
    1 part Latex mold builder
    1 part Slime tubeless
    1 part cheap antifreeze
    2 parts water
    I think I also threw some pepper and glitter in there too.
    These pics are the first time I've been inside the tires for about 6 mos. The brew was NOT liquid at all any more and it definitely turned to snot.
    Any "tweaking" the recipe for longer life?



  51. #251
    Go faster!
    Reputation: sergio_pt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,077
    Where can I buy some acrilic latex online to make my first homemade tubeless sealant?

    thanks

  52. #252
    singletrack bound
    Reputation: Tone No Balone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    2,657
    I currently have 26" tubes in both my 29" wheels as I broke a spoke on my front wheel last week. I rode my Superlight squishy (26er) one ride and I went down and got a new spoke and trued up my front wheel. I'm in the same situation as Slocaus....I have two worn tires that need to be replaced and I think I may go back to straight Stan's or just a smidge of slime with at least a scoop and a half of stan's. I still think the benefits of running tubless far outweigh the inconvience of the initial set up. I like the WTB Prowler SL race up front (2.1) but it weeps constantly..... I will consider trying a different front tire.I think I will stay with the Maxis Ignitor (2.1) on the rear.
    Tone.

  53. #253
    4 Niners
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,124
    Try the Ignitor up front. I have Prowler and Ignitor mounted up on flows for front and the Ignitor is way better front tire. The Prowler is probably a better rear since it has lower rolling resistance.

  54. #254
    Dr Gadget is IN
    Reputation: wadester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    2,352

    Science!

    After finally having a discussion with a chemist, and remembering to actually DO something about - I have some possible improvements.

    First, the discussion -
    1) Cafe Latex, with its foaming properties seems a better way to get sealant up onto the sidewalls, which are still a bit of an issue for "regular" sealant.

    It turns out that latex is actually considered an anti-foam additive (D'oh!), but detergent or soap could be used as a foaming agent - probably dish detergent, since laundry detergent has anti-foaming ingredients and soap breaks down faster than detergent.

    2) Seapage, and coverage.

    One thing I really like about WSS is the long life, so I'm reluctant to reduce the amount of liquid - but it was suggested to try a thickener (seaweed extract) to promote a better coating w/o changing evaporation (or maybe reducing it?). I just happened to have some sodium alginate thickener that I got with tie-dye supplies - used to make thicken the dye to the consistency of paint.

    3) More chunkulation!

    OK, so glitter was a cool idea that didn't work - wrong particle shape! So what plug shaped particulates could be used? Silica "gel", which is actually small sand-like beads has already been suggested, or their ceramic equivalent. Haven't scored any of this, so maybe later.

    Another possible would be to replace the antifreeze with a second helping of Slime tubeless, something I will try in a small batch.


    Experimental results:

    1) An oldie - found the result from mixing no-tox antifreeze directly with latex! And finally tossed it after taking a pic.
    2) Dawn dishwashing liquid - into 1 scoop of WSS
    3) Shake, shake - about double volume
    4)After a bit, not too bad, but not as foamy as CafeLatex - may try more soap later
    Attached Images Attached Images
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  55. #255
    Dr Gadget is IN
    Reputation: wadester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    2,352

    Next 'Spearamint

    And some thickener -

    I just added this to the soapy mix

    And good results! I just resealed a tire using about this ratio of thickener/sealant. We'll see.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  56. #256
    Fortes Fortuna Iuvat
    Reputation: Datalogger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,214
    Great info!
    Maverick Durance Ano-DUC32/C KING/XTR
    Mav ML8 Ano-DUC32/X0
    Mav ML8-DUC32/I9/XTR
    09 Spec. Demo-Totem-Ti DHX
    Norco Team DH

  57. #257
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    235

    Am I missing something?

    I don't quite understand the logic of the foaming action of the new sealant....

    Just logically thinking, my tires with a home-brew mixture will weep a little bit through the sidewalls which would tell me that indeed the sidewalls are getting a coating of the liquid stuff ....

    So it seems to me that no one really knows if the foaming action thing actually coats a tire any better or efficiently than a non-foamy sealant...

    I'm not saying that the caffelatex stuff is bad - I've never tried it - I'm just saying that maybe the foaming action is more marketing hype than real rigorous science.

  58. #258
    Mtbr
    Reputation: dbo43867's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    316
    I find that to prevent buggers I will unseal the bead and pee in it. If you are concerned about time spent, then rotate. I have one tub of ghetto tubeless mix in a jar, and the rest in the tire. When I switch, I'll pee in the jar and let it sit for oh 6-7 weeks on the kitchen table. Then it's perfect!
    2008 Rig

  59. #259
    4 Niners
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,124
    Nobody from this list is going to eat dinner at your house

  60. #260
    Mtbr
    Reputation: dbo43867's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    316
    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy
    Nobody from this list is going to eat dinner at your house








    2008 Rig

  61. #261
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ricot83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    655
    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    And some thickener -

    I just added this to the soapy mix

    And good results! I just resealed a tire using about this ratio of thickener/sealant. We'll see.
    Thanks for doin all this work Wade I am real anxious to try out your recipe, minus the thinckener, since I dont really have any around.

  62. #262
    saddlemeat
    Reputation: bsieb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    3,644

    The Snot Thickens...

    Great report, I hope to run some experiments in the near future using a tire made of clear plastic hose to observe the action of the sealant as the wheel rotates at speed. The beginning of the school season has my lab minions busy for a few weeks but that will give me time to find some sodium alginate.

    I designed a label while killing time with Photoshop on a dreary wet day last winter, came across it yesterday and thought I would post it. Seems like a superior product should have a label.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    I ride with the best dogs.




  63. #263
    Dr Gadget is IN
    Reputation: wadester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    2,352

    Moar

    OK, so I put some thickener in a "problem child" tire. This bad boy got a bad sidewall rip a while back - bad enough that the sealant wouldn't hold pressure above 15psi (pics in this thread). Tubed it, got it home - and put a patch on the inside.

    This worked for a month or two, but the threads in the carcass had taken too much damage - and stretched enough for the patch not to hold. Sealant wasn't cuttin' it up on the wall, and now I could watch it stretch and start to lose air. Cool. Kinda.

    So I whip out the sewing kit, open up the tire (again) and whip stitch the rip, patch and all! Put it back on the bead, and EXCELLENT! It seeped a little sealant thru the frankenpatch, but held - and continued to hold til this week. I found the tire very low, and when I pumped it up I felt a breeze on my knees - the tire stretching enough to open up a hole. Again.

    This is when I was inspired to try the new goo. I could have shook the existing sealant into the hole, but that hadn't held once (or twice) already. I opened the bead, found a pool of sealant - and added another scoop WSS and 1/4 teaspoon of Sodium Alginate.

    Went for a ride the next day, with the results shown. The thickened sealant extruded thru the hole during the ride, and congealed where you see it in the first pic. I note that this blob stayed put for a 1 1/2 hour ride in rough terrain on a full rigid fixed gear bike. Second pic is with the surface wiped off. Can you see why I'm calling this the frankenpatch? Oh yeah, rear tire - so I'm not taking too severe of a risk.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  64. #264
    Dr Gadget is IN
    Reputation: wadester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    2,352

    Oh yeah

    Sodium alginate is cheap - 6$+shipping gets you 1/4 lb that would last a while at 1/4 teaspoon/tire. http://www.dharmatrading.com/sa4-10.html I got the high viscosity/cotton kind since that's my kinda tie-dye.

    But in the interest of SCIENCE! I will offer to send enough thickener for not one but TWO TIRES! (WooHoo! - 1/2 teaspoon) to anybody willing to play guinea pig! Just send me a mailing address and I'll send you a sample. Offer valid til I get tired (get it?) of it.

    PS: Original Open Source Tubeless Tire Sealant! I love it! WSS for the WIN!
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  65. #265
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ricot83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    655
    Just setup 2 maxxis ignitor tires with gorilla tape ghetto and this special sauce. works awesome, one tire has been sitting for like 3-4 days and holding air. The other was just setup today so we will see.


    BTW, what is the shelf life of this stuff mixed in a bottle?

  66. #266
    4 Niners
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,124
    It seems to last well over a year in a tightly sealed container. I have never kept it longer, but it might last longer.

  67. #267
    Giant Anthem
    Reputation: 2fst4u's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    716
    Alright Wade and anyone else who cares to revive this thread-I'm getting ready to mix up the original WSS formula but I want to make sure I got the antifreeze right. These are the ingredients of the antifreeze in my garage=Brand Name "Peak"ingredients=Ethylene Glycol, Diethylene Glycol, Dipotassium Phosphate, Corrosion inhibitors, silicates , defoamer, dyes. Does this work?

    I looked at a couple stores and I can't figure out which antifreeze you were recommending so I'm hoping the above mentioned works-thanks homebrew dudes
    Racing and Training Blog
    http://dirtandgears.blogspot.com/

  68. #268
    4 Niners
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,124
    If you read through this entire thread originally the consensus was that you had to use the ethylene glycol (the older type green antifreeze), but then someone reported about 50 posts ago that they used the new type (red) antifreeze with equal results. And actually some of the posts indicate that you can use way less anti-freeze than the original recipe.

    I have been very happy with my mix and it has worked well, but the anti-freeze does tend to weep out of some brands of tires little pin holes in the sidewall. I am thinking of cutting way back on the anti-freeze in my next batch.

  69. #269
    Dr Gadget is IN
    Reputation: wadester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    2,352
    Just don't put the latex directly in with the antifreeze - it tends to coagulate the latex. I mix latex, then slime, then water, antifreeze, water for the basic mix - mixing well with each new addition.

    I also tried 2 new recipes - latex/slime/water (3 parts) and latex/2 slime/2 water (modified 5 part). No antifreeze added, just what's in the slime. 3 part is too thick, I think. Modified 5 part (M5) is very similar to the old 5 part mix with alginate thickener (T5?).

    Haven't had the chance to field test the M5 blend in a tire yet - still no issues with thickened old style. That's the problem with improving this stuff - takes a long time for any data points. Actually, I do have one note on T5 - doesn't seem to lose pressure over time as much. Less top off of pressure after sitting a week.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  70. #270
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bikerfish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    115
    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    I also tried 2 new recipes - latex/slime/water (3 parts) and latex/2 slime/2 water (modified 5 part). No antifreeze added, just what's in the slime. 3 part is too thick, I think. Modified 5 part (M5) is very similar to the old 5 part mix with alginate thickener (T5?).

    Haven't had the chance to field test the M5 blend in a tire yet - still no issues with thickened old style. That's the problem with improving this stuff - takes a long time for any data points. Actually, I do have one note on T5 - doesn't seem to lose pressure over time as much. Less top off of pressure after sitting a week.
    Wadster,

    What part of the country do you live in? I.E. how cold does it get there? I need to make up a new batch and would love to find a recipe that was antifreeze free (I'm tired of feeling like I'm leaving an environmental bomb anytime I have problems with tubeless). Problem is it gets cold here in Nebraska so I need to have something that won't freeze up. Not sure if the Slime has enough anti-freezing compounds to keep the whole concoction from freezing so I'd be curious what your take is on the matter. I have a guy I ride with here that only uses latex and windshield washer fluid so I might give that recipe a try also.

  71. #271
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    28

    Mixing up a batch tonight

    Has anyone thought about adding palmolive dish detergent to the mix? I am thinking of mixing latex, slime, and liquid dish detergent.
    Pain is Good

  72. #272
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bikerfish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    115
    Quote Originally Posted by banzai
    Has anyone thought about adding palmolive dish detergent to the mix? I am thinking of mixing latex, slime, and liquid dish detergent.
    I've never tried it so I can't say that I have any first hand knowledge on the subject, but it seems to me that detergent would be kind of counter-productive in a sealant concoction.

  73. #273
    trail rat
    Reputation: slocaus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,817
    Quote Originally Posted by banzai
    Has anyone thought about adding palmolive dish detergent to the mix? I am thinking of mixing latex, slime, and liquid dish detergent.
    See post #254 above from wadester; did not read much huh?.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

    CCCMB trail work for trail access - SLO, CA

  74. #274
    Dr Gadget is IN
    Reputation: wadester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    2,352
    Quote Originally Posted by bikerfish
    Wadster,

    What part of the country do you live in? I.E. how cold does it get there? I need to make up a new batch and would love to find a recipe that was antifreeze free (I'm tired of feeling like I'm leaving an environmental bomb anytime I have problems with tubeless). Problem is it gets cold here in Nebraska so I need to have something that won't freeze up. Not sure if the Slime has enough anti-freezing compounds to keep the whole concoction from freezing so I'd be curious what your take is on the matter. I have a guy I ride with here that only uses latex and windshield washer fluid so I might give that recipe a try also.
    I actually live in the southwest desert - so I was initially more concerned about summer evaporation than freezing, but we do get "winter" here and get below freezing at times but not for too many days or very far below. Others on this thread have real winter.

    1) The working fluid in Slime (and Stan's) is propylene glycol antifreeze. This is a very low tox material, and is approved for use in food in its pure form - I wouldn't drink the automotive version tho.
    2) You can mix the original WSS recipe with NoTox antifreeze or pure propylene glycol - just don't mix directly with the latex as mentioned.
    3) I believe that Slime is rated for real winter - cutting it with water would reduce that, but I bet the latex takes it the other way. Why don't you mix some up and leave it outside (in a non glass container) and report back? SCIENCE!
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  75. #275
    Dr Gadget is IN
    Reputation: wadester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    2,352
    Quote Originally Posted by banzai
    Has anyone thought about adding palmolive dish detergent to the mix? I am thinking of mixing latex, slime, and liquid dish detergent.
    Quote Originally Posted by bikerfish
    I've never tried it so I can't say that I have any first hand knowledge on the subject, but it seems to me that detergent would be kind of counter-productive in a sealant concoction.
    I tried detergent to emulate cafe latex's foaming action - but with the concern mentioned by bikerfish, and the fact that the sealant is well distributed on every part of the tire while in motion - I've dropped that line of investigation for now. A dense foam inside the tire would keep the sealant from pooling at the bottom of the tire, but rotating the hole to that location has served me well before.

    If you try it - take notes and report back, please.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  76. #276
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    7,930
    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    Since 5/04 I been running:
    1 part Latex mold builder
    1 part Slime tubeless
    1 part cheap antifreeze
    2 parts water

    Tends to last for about a year vs 3 months for Stan's, and I live in the southwest desert (LC NM). Seals better, less "wet spotting".

    I will be adding glitter to the next batch I make - turns out there are different sizes (and colors!) of glitter to think about.

    The idea is a range of hole plugging things, with latex at the low end (tiny holes) and moving up thru the fibers and then the rubber chunks in the tubeless slime. Glitter should add a next (or several more) size ranges of hole the sealant can plug - as well as give you lime green/red glitter sealant boogers

    Antifreeze is in there as a low evaporation working fluid. I note that slime is water/fiber/chunks/propylene glycol antifreeze(low tox). I tried using PG antifreeze, but it has additives for auto use that coagulate the latex. That's why I use cheap PE antifreeze - no additives!

    Mold builder at Michaels. $15 for 16 fl oz. is no deal at all. I've seen them in 32 oz containers.

    http://www.michaels.com/art/online/d...ductNum=gc0514

    Another option to buy it in bulk, by the pint, quart or gallon, maybe for club usage?

    http://www.artmolds.com/product_deta...Latex%20Rubber
    Last edited by Boyonabyke; 10-18-2009 at 02:24 PM.

  77. #277
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MagicCarpet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    628
    I'd like to say how much I have enjoyed reading this thread and appreciate it being revived so new members can see it. I don't want to be seen as a kill joy by saying this, because I realise there is probably a good answer to my question, so don't get the wrong impression.

    Given that tubeless tyre slime purchased from an auto parts shop contains all of the other ingerdieants mentioned in the secret sauce, is it not just as easy to use the slime as it comes? As I say, I know there will be a reason for it. I'm just wondering what it might be.

    Thanks in advance for setting me straight.

  78. #278
    mtbr member
    Reputation: boomn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    9,868
    Quote Originally Posted by MagicCarpet
    I'd like to say how much I have enjoyed reading this thread and appreciate it being revived so new members can see it. I don't want to be seen as a kill joy by saying this, because I realise there is probably a good answer to my question, so don't get the wrong impression.

    Given that tubeless tyre slime purchased from an auto parts shop contains all of the other ingerdieants mentioned in the secret sauce, is it not just as easy to use the slime as it comes? As I say, I know there will be a reason for it. I'm just wondering what it might be.

    Thanks in advance for setting me straight.
    That auto store Slime on its own is very thick compared to bike tire sealants. I have no good guesses on how the additional latex and other liquids affects the sealing properties. But I do have a hunch that the thicker auto Slime would not flow as smoothly and quickly in the tire, meaning you would have a sensation of off-center weight in the wheel. You wouldn't feel that on a car because the wheels and tires are so much heavier and the engines are much more powerful than (most) of us.

  79. #279
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    1,607
    just curious, i haven't read all the notes here but has anybody made WSS without the slime in it...curious if that would work just as well...then all we're really buying is the mold builder (assuming everyone has a bit of antifreeze in the garage)

    thanks
    "He can make even a global summit meeting seem like a kegger." M. Dowd, NY Times, 19 July 2006

  80. #280
    is buachail foighneach me
    Reputation: sean salach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    6,589
    Quote Originally Posted by bikerfish
    Wadster,

    What part of the country do you live in? I.E. how cold does it get there? I need to make up a new batch and would love to find a recipe that was antifreeze free (I'm tired of feeling like I'm leaving an environmental bomb anytime I have problems with tubeless). Problem is it gets cold here in Nebraska so I need to have something that won't freeze up. Not sure if the Slime has enough anti-freezing compounds to keep the whole concoction from freezing so I'd be curious what your take is on the matter. I have a guy I ride with here that only uses latex and windshield washer fluid so I might give that recipe a try also.
    I'm no chemist, but I can't think of a single liquid that doesn't freeze that's really environmentally friendly and completely harmless to living creatures. Unless maybe there's some way we could work a highly saline solution into it....

  81. #281
    Dr Gadget is IN
    Reputation: wadester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    2,352
    Quote Originally Posted by MagicCarpet
    I'd like to say how much I have enjoyed reading this thread and appreciate it being revived so new members can see it. I don't want to be seen as a kill joy by saying this, because I realise there is probably a good answer to my question, so don't get the wrong impression.

    Given that tubeless tyre slime purchased from an auto parts shop contains all of the other ingerdieants mentioned in the secret sauce, is it not just as easy to use the slime as it comes? As I say, I know there will be a reason for it. I'm just wondering what it might be.

    Thanks in advance for setting me straight.
    Quote Originally Posted by adamantane
    just curious, i haven't read all the notes here but has anybody made WSS without the slime in it...curious if that would work just as well...then all we're really buying is the mold builder (assuming everyone has a bit of antifreeze in the garage)
    As noted before, sealant is a range of things that will plug holes/leaks of various sizes - Latex is the base size for those little irregularities in the bead, and for final sealing of any hole. Slime is a convenient mix of fibers and chunks that cover a fairly wide range. The holy grail would be something that could plug a sidewall rip.

    Quote Originally Posted by boomn
    That auto store Slime on its own is very thick compared to bike tire sealants. I have no good guesses on how the additional latex and other liquids affects the sealing properties. But I do have a hunch that the thicker auto Slime would not flow as smoothly and quickly in the tire, meaning you would have a sensation of off-center weight in the wheel. You wouldn't feel that on a car because the wheels and tires are so much heavier and the engines are much more powerful than (most) of us.
    Stan's sealant is/was the standard that WSS was based on - but it's watery, evaporates quickly, and has a narrow range of chunkulation. WSS extends the useful life considerable, as well as sealing a wider range of holes (part of lasting longer, I think). The current direction of evaluation is pointing to a thicker mix - more chunks, and trying to get the sealant to stay distributed in the tire after you stop.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  82. #282
    Doesntplaywellwithmorons!
    Reputation: DeeEight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    10,839
    Ummmm, why not just use winter grade windshield washer fluid instead of the water and antifreeze?
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  83. #283
    Dr Gadget is IN
    Reputation: wadester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    2,352
    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    Ummmm, why not just use winter grade windshield washer fluid instead of the water and antifreeze?
    Most WWW is water, detergent, and either isopropyl alcohol, methyl alcohol, or ethylene glycol. Either evaporates quick in warm weather or is the same stuff we're using - plus detergent.

    The old style ammonia water is hard to find. Search for MSDS (material safety data sheet) to find ingredients.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  84. #284
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    1,607
    wadester...have you or anybody actually seen the msds for stan's sealant? i wonder if it is available just to see exactly what is in his brewski...is it really mostly propylene glycol
    thanks
    "He can make even a global summit meeting seem like a kegger." M. Dowd, NY Times, 19 July 2006

  85. #285
    trail rat
    Reputation: slocaus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,817
    Quote Originally Posted by adamantane
    wadester...have you or anybody actually seen the msds for stan's sealant? i wonder if it is available just to see exactly what is in his brewski...is it really mostly propylene glycol
    thanks
    Google search for "stan's notubes msds"
    Hit one was notubes.com
    Hit two was the MSDS
    http://www.notubes.com/pdf/NoTubes%20_MSDS.pdf

    Ammonia is the only hazardous material.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

    CCCMB trail work for trail access - SLO, CA

  86. #286
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    1,607
    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    Google search for "stan's notubes msds"
    Hit one was notubes.com
    Hit two was the MSDS
    http://www.notubes.com/pdf/NoTubes%20_MSDS.pdf

    Ammonia is the only hazardous material.
    ok, so with msds, you dont have to write exactly what is in the product, just whatever the 'dangerous' item is, in this case now we know ammonia is in thier for sure...but how do we know it is cut with propylene glycol...maybe it is just water, latex and some ammonia...anyway, thanks for finding that msds pdf...if i recall, the patent for it maybe had a bit more information, like the little bit of solid added to plug up holes better...but it also doesn't give the exact composition...guess you dont have to anywhere
    "He can make even a global summit meeting seem like a kegger." M. Dowd, NY Times, 19 July 2006

  87. #287
    mtbr member
    Reputation: cstem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,851
    Quote Originally Posted by customfab
    i was just being a wise ass, so simmer down charlie brown. i honestly would love to see somebody validate the tire compliance and lower rolling resistance cause i think it is pure marketing BS.

    This has been confirmed by every motorcycle tire manufacturer in the world. Through extensive testing they have found that (especially Michelin and thier roadrace tires) the tube to tire interface creates friction. Naturally the friction will cause the tire casing to move slowly about it's sidewalls. The slower movement means the tread (to which the tire casing is attached) will not form to small imperfections (like a little 1 inch rock in the middle of a high speed turn) and create as high of grip as is achieved by a tubeless tire set up.

    Notice to the only high performance tires sold are for drag racing slicks that are designed with sloppy soft sidewalls to allow the tread to conform to the pavement- all others run tubeless (except in the most extreme of cases that have a run flat bladder, not a tube technically).

    Another benefit that has no scientific basis is that waiting for/making your buddies wait for a tube replacement sucks on great rides. Another one- flats on climbs suck just a little less than a thorn flat on a twisty fun downhill. Another one I like- Losing a race you led alll day due to a flat tube is a real bummer.

    I can understand where tubeless benefits would not be applicable. Maybe one likes changing tubes alot? They ride alone and consider tube time a great break. They don't ride in flat prone areas (LUCKY!) They don't race or they just don't have the : time, patience, skill, desire to pay someone else and/or the need to do it.
    Vassago Cycles, Shadetree Bikes, Flat Tire Bikes, Galfer Brakes USA

  88. #288
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bikerfish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    115

    Testament to tubeless and a warning

    I had to tear off my tire yesterday to replace a broken spoke. I pulled my cut tube off, pried up (and subsequently broke) my rim tape and had to cut through the two layers of electrical tape that was below that. Replaced the nipple & spoke and decided since I'm running a liner (the cut tube) there really wasn't any need to repair either of the tape layers I butchered. I just stuck then down as best I could and then put the cut tube back on, remounted my tire, added more sealant and walla the wheel was good to go.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
    <o></o>
    Fast forward a couple hours...I'm heading out to the trailhead for a group ride and feeling pretty frisky so I'm zooming along, hitting curbs, jumping etc. After I jump one curb I hear a funny spiiffft sound so I come to a stop and check it out. There was about a 6" section of cut tube that blew out from between the rim & tire. I thought for sure that was the end of my ride, or I was at least going to have to put a tube in (which I knew was going to be extremely messy because I just loaded up the tire with sealant). But upon further inspection I couldn't hear any air leaks so I just grabbed my knife, cut the exposed tube off so it wouldn't get caught on trail debris, added a little air to the tire and rode off. I ended up riding 30+ miles and only added air twice. I'll try to take some pictures of it before I remount the tire.<o></o>
    <o></o>
    Anyway, lessons I learned from this experience:<o></o>
    1. The sealant works awesome (which I knew already, but it's always cool when it's validated.<o></o>
    2. Don't get super cheap with a ghetto tubeless setup. It's already cheap! Next time I remove a cut tube, I'm starting over with a new one. Although I'd still be tempted to reuse a liner that hasn't been removed (OK maybe I haven't learned my lesson ).<o></o>

  89. #289
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bikerfish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    115

    Testament to tubeless and a warning

    Sorry post got doubled.

  90. #290
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    993
    Is there any agreement on what to use to increase chunkulation of the home brew? I've had three punctures the brew would not seal in the last 2 months. Riding in AZ the sealant has worked great for thorns and small punctures but the last three have required patching. 2 were from glass on the way to the trail and one was from a rock. All thru the tread on a Bontrager XDX. Maybe I'm asking to much from the brew. Also I'm only getting 6 to 8 weeks from the home brew before it is dried up in the tire. About the same time as Stans but at the cost and quantity of home brew I don't mind topping off anymore.

  91. #291
    Dr Gadget is IN
    Reputation: wadester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    2,352
    Quote Originally Posted by azpoolguy
    Is there any agreement on what to use to increase chunkulation of the home brew? I've had three punctures the brew would not seal in the last 2 months. Riding in AZ the sealant has worked great for thorns and small punctures but the last three have required patching. 2 were from glass on the way to the trail and one was from a rock. All thru the tread on a Bontrager XDX. Maybe I'm asking to much from the brew. Also I'm only getting 6 to 8 weeks from the home brew before it is dried up in the tire. About the same time as Stans but at the cost and quantity of home brew I don't mind topping off anymore.
    Wow - only two months and you're dry? How much sealant are you putting in?

    Re: Chunkulation. We don't have a valid new larger type of chunk since glitter didn't seem to work (I'll post a pic of WSS/w/glitter after run-to-dry. Biggest booger I've ever seen, and it was purple/red rather than green) If anybody has an idea, to try - speak up!

    Anyways, my current attempt is thicker sauce. Me and 3 other lab-rats are running WSS/w/alginate thickener - no data points yet. And I just resauced that dried-out glitter tire with a variation on WSS: double the slime/no antifreeze. Similar to thickened, but with twice as many chunks.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  92. #292
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    993
    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    Wow - only two months and you're dry? How much sealant are you putting in?

    Re: Chunkulation. We don't have a valid new larger type of chunk since glitter didn't seem to work (I'll post a pic of WSS/w/glitter after run-to-dry. Biggest booger I've ever seen, and it was purple/red rather than green) If anybody has an idea, to try - speak up!

    Anyways, my current attempt is thicker sauce. Me and 3 other lab-rats are running WSS/w/alginate thickener - no data points yet. And I just resauced that dried-out glitter tire with a variation on WSS: double the slime/no antifreeze. Similar to thickened, but with twice as many chunks.
    I use 2 red Stans scoops per tire. Maybe I should step up to 3. Living in Phoenix my summer rides are at 105+ degrees and my bike lives in a 110 to 115 degree garage all summer.

  93. #293
    Rollin 29s
    Reputation: isleblue65's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    602
    I've been following this thread with interest as I just got a set of Stans Flow 29ers and plan to run them tubeless. I'm going to mix up some of Wadester's home brew and try it out.

    One suggestion I have for making smaller batches without finding the remainder of your liquid latex dried up in 6 months comes from my experience with casting and molding. After pouring rubber (silicone or latex) and after pouring urethanes into molds, I always displace the air in the can with nitrogen. Often called a nitrogen blanket, this displaces oxygen in the container (main cause of drying out/ deterioration) and keeps the contents fresh for years. I still have urethanes that I haven't opened for 2 years that are as liquid as they were when I closed the containers (one shake of the can proves this). I've forgotten to add nitrogen to a can before and found the urethane jelly like and unuseable 2 weeks later.

    You can get the nitrogen in cans from molding/ casting places. It looks like an aerosol can with a straw that you direct into the can. Spray the gas in for 3 seconds and put the lid on tight as soon as the straw is removed. Allows you to buy larger size containers of material and make smaller batches.

    Cheers

  94. #294
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bikerfish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    115
    Great tip...Thanks !

    Quote Originally Posted by isleblue65
    I've been following this thread with interest as I just got a set of Stans Flow 29ers and plan to run them tubeless. I'm going to mix up some of Wadester's home brew and try it out.

    One suggestion I have for making smaller batches without finding the remainder of your liquid latex dried up in 6 months comes from my experience with casting and molding. After pouring rubber (silicone or latex) and after pouring urethanes into molds, I always displace the air in the can with nitrogen. Often called a nitrogen blanket, this displaces oxygen in the container (main cause of drying out/ deterioration) and keeps the contents fresh for years. I still have urethanes that I haven't opened for 2 years that are as liquid as they were when I closed the containers (one shake of the can proves this). I've forgotten to add nitrogen to a can before and found the urethane jelly like and unuseable 2 weeks later.

    You can get the nitrogen in cans from molding/ casting places. It looks like an aerosol can with a straw that you direct into the can. Spray the gas in for 3 seconds and put the lid on tight as soon as the straw is removed. Allows you to buy larger size containers of material and make smaller batches.

    Cheers

  95. #295
    I'm with stupid -------->
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    390
    Quote Originally Posted by azpoolguy
    I use 2 red Stans scoops per tire. Maybe I should step up to 3. Living in Phoenix my summer rides are at 105+ degrees and my bike lives in a 110 to 115 degree garage all summer.

    I put a little over 3 ozs in my 29er and it only lasts about 6 weeks as well. I also live in Phoenix. I think we are just paying our dues for living in a hot dry location.

  96. #296
    ride better, ride faster
    Reputation: inzane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    183
    So, bit of a strange thing with my Intense 909's that i set up tubeless. The sidewalls on the tyres appear to be constantly "Wet", I assume from some of the goo oozing through the sidewalls. As I am using propylene glycol in the home brew goo, i assume it is some of this that is sitting around, as the water and ammonia would have just evaporated.

    Are some tyres just not suitable to be run as tubeless? I have run a number of other tyres as tubeless and not yet had this problem??

  97. #297
    otb member
    Reputation: craigshaf's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    330
    Quote Originally Posted by inzane
    So, bit of a strange thing with my Intense 909's that i set up tubeless. The sidewalls on the tyres appear to be constantly "Wet", I assume from some of the goo oozing through the sidewalls. As I am using propylene glycol in the home brew goo, i assume it is some of this that is sitting around, as the water and ammonia would have just evaporated.

    Are some tyres just not suitable to be run as tubeless? I have run a number of other tyres as tubeless and not yet had this problem??

    My Conti MKs do the same thing. My Rampages didn't.
    The wheels on my bike go 'round and 'round

  98. #298
    mtbr member
    Reputation: boomn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    9,868
    Quote Originally Posted by craigshaf
    My Conti MKs do the same thing. My Rampages didn't.
    Funny enough, my Rampage did this a lot but my Ardent did not at all. In my case I'm 100% positive that the difference was due to the Rampage having a full year of riding already on it so the sidewalls were very worn out, whereas the Ardent was relatively new (~2 months of riding).

  99. #299
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    109
    On tires with thin sidewalls that ooze and don't seal up well, I've coated the inside with rubber cement before adding sealant. No oozing, no pinholes in need of sealing.

  100. #300
    ride better, ride faster
    Reputation: inzane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    183
    Quote Originally Posted by boomn
    Funny enough, my Rampage did this a lot but my Ardent did not at all. In my case I'm 100% positive that the difference was due to the Rampage having a full year of riding already on it so the sidewalls were very worn out, whereas the Ardent was relatively new (~2 months of riding).
    That is a point, the 909's have a bit of riding in them already...

    Interesting.

Page 3 of 43 FirstFirst 123456713 ... LastLast

Members who have read this thread: 333

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

mtbr.com and the ConsumerReview Network are business units of Invenda Corporation

(C) Copyright 1996-2018. All Rights Reserved.