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  1. #1
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    29er carbon rim with 35mm width

    More and more people want wider rim, what do you think about this one?

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    Carbon life, Carbon fan!
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  2. #2
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    What people want is a well tested rim so they're sure they wont 1) die and 2) waste their money. Also hookless is the new fad. So, basically, this is a no name unknown rim when there's other popular cheap and more thoroughly tested options.

  3. #3
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    yes, think a lots of P35 folks be interested. me too.
    currently testing 45mm rims in alu. and fat bike rims be very popular.
    so get rolling on 35mm, go 45mm, ... 65, 80,... sell like hot-cakes.
    make them beefy and durable. when can I order ?

  4. #4
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    Call me when they get to 50mm

  5. #5
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    The mold of 50mm wide would be totally possible in the future, if we could collect 60 orders from riders all over the world. Very possible!
    Quote Originally Posted by ScaryJerry View Post
    Call me when they get to 50mm
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  6. #6
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    80mm?! just like panzer wheels? Thriller..............
    Anyway, we would make it, if there was enough riders who need it. Technically, it's not hard at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by rschultz101 View Post
    yes, think a lots of P35 folks be interested. me too.
    currently testing 45mm rims in alu. and fat bike rims be very popular.
    so get rolling on 35mm, go 45mm, ... 65, 80,... sell like hot-cakes.
    make them beefy and durable. when can I order ?
    Carbon life, Carbon fan!
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  7. #7
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    bktide, guess you have not hear of fat bikes . they sell out every year, with multiple bike mtgs. so 29,650b up to 50mm, 65,80mm 26" fat.
    velocity just made the dually in 45mm, selling fast. forget the preorder, just do it.
    have it ready by dec 1st, because of christmas shopping,...

  8. #8
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    They look great. Did you pay for this spam though?

  9. #9
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    Re: 29er carbon rim with 35mm width

    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding View Post
    They look great. Did you pay for this spam though?
    I don't think it's spam yet.
    CRAMBA Chairman

  10. #10
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    29er carbon rim with 35mm width

    I think it looks like weak sauce compared to a Derby wide rim.

  11. #11
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    We should send all of these MFR's on a wild goose chase.....some of these are very small market......

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by thickfog View Post
    I don't think it's spam yet.

    Yes it is.

  13. #13
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    I think it looks really interesting (saw these on eBay), but a couple of things scare me

    1. No reviews yet (even your eBay status had zero feedback), and no-one wants to be a beta tester
    2. The weight. I think you said they were around 390g. Considering your competition (Derby's) are 440g - 480g without the hook which adds weight, I'd be nervous about that. Seems almost too light for the width.
    3. Also surprised by the profile. 23.5mm deep is a lot less than most carbon AM rims, which are closer to 30mm deep. Not a bad thing but does mean longer spokes.

  14. #14
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    carbon-bicycle has not sold the kind of rim on ebay yet, and it must be tested before recommending to the users.

    This is the detail data:

    Specifications: Model CKMC935
    Size: 29er
    Material: Carbon Toray 700
    Appearance: 3K/UD/18K
    Weight: 440+/-15g
    Profile: 23.5*29c
    Spokes holes : 16-36#
    ERD: 598mm
    Assembly Hole Dia.: 7.5mm
    Spokes hole Dia.: 4.5mm
    Valve hole Dia.: 6.5mm
    Roundess: <0.3mm
    Max Spoke Tension: >300kg
    Ultimate Strength: >200kg
    Torsion Strength: >50kg
    Dynamic Equilibrium: <3g

    carbon-bicycle has more customers in France, they say it has a good performance on their mtb.
    Carbon life, Carbon fan!
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  15. #15
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    Does carbon-bicycle = light-bicycle because you use the same photos?
    Hey guys, lets go play bieks!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by danny31292 View Post
    What people want is a well tested rim so they're sure they wont 1) die and 2) waste their money. Also hookless is the new fad. So, basically, this is a no name unknown rim when there's other popular cheap and more thoroughly tested options.
    Hookless isn't a new fad.
    OG Ripley v2
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeshulEd View Post
    Does carbon-bicycle = light-bicycle because you use the same photos?
    we are not the same one, but most rim and wheels are from the same factories, so some photos are same.

    carbon-bicycle has some special new products that others have not yet.
    Carbon life, Carbon fan!
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by bktide View Post
    we are not the same one
    Your website is very very very similar to LB!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie_MTB View Post
    Your website is very very very similar to LB!
    When all they do is copy, did you expect any different with the website?
    OG Ripley v2
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  20. #20
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    Same products, similar website. Maybe it is normal to a certain degree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie_MTB View Post
    Your website is very very very similar to LB!
    Carbon life, Carbon fan!
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  21. #21
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    Excuse-us, you believe the carbon bike production could be copied? If so, everybody is copying, and every rider is buying.
    we sell carbon products, we don't sell website. We could change a website look if you were happy to see that. It changes almost nothing perhaps, however.
    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    When all they do is copy, did you expect any different with the website?
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bktide View Post
    Same products, similar website. Maybe it is normal to a certain degree.
    I think it is absolutely hilarious that they will copy from each other. Eventually they are going to get into a price war and begin to reduce the quality to offer such a cheap price....then everything will implode and no one will buy from them......and we lived happily ever after...

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bktide View Post
    Excuse-us, you believe the carbon bike production could be copied? If so, everybody is copying, and every rider is buying.
    we sell carbon products, we don't sell website. We could change a website look if you were happy to see that. It changes almost nothing perhaps, however.
    So glad you mention that. As long as someone will buy, you will produce and that has always been the bottom line...no matter what it takes to do it. You just don't understand the American market and their sense of fairness. Keep doing what you are doing. After this market explodes, you will move to something else. I can't wait to see what happens with the price wars/vs. quality.....

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bktide View Post
    More and more people want wider rim, what do you think about this one?

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    The inside radius on the left side of the upper cavity look like a much smaller radius than the right side. I woud like to see a little more material in those areas, and would like to see more similarity in the radii. Several surfaces are coming together there, several transitions in surfaces, and that concentrates stresses in those areas, makes those areas more prone to failure if they aren't a little thicker than adjacent areas.

    Stress concentration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Roark's Formulas for Stress and Strain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Linear Stress Analysis | SolidWorks

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by YaMon View Post
    I think it is absolutely hilarious that they will copy from each other. Eventually they are going to get into a price war and begin to reduce the quality to offer such a cheap price....then everything will implode and no one will buy from them......and we lived happily ever after...
    bktide said "we are not the same one, but most rim and wheels are from the same factories, so some photos are same."…… I see this in the fire equipment industry (my business) as well, same images being used between (many) "companies". And, unless you have someone over there, you really can't tell who you are really dealing with, but most likely it is an agent. And, usually this "company" is a 1-man operation working from his home.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfdog93 View Post
    bktide said "we are not the same one, but most rim and wheels are from the same factories, so some photos are same."…… I see this in the fire equipment industry (my business) as well, same images being used between (many) "companies". And, unless you have someone over there, you really can't tell who you are really dealing with, but most likely it is an agent. And, usually this "company" is a 1-man operation working from his home.
    So glad to see someone that ACTUALLY has experience with dealing and understanding China post. As both of us know, there are so many horror stories and you cannot apply the same business ethics. Comparing Taiwan and China is like night and day....but to the average American, they are all Chinese.

  27. #27
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    Well, Americans created the internet time...........so, you know always better than people from other parts of the world that, time has changed. Most time we don't need (or, no need) to know who are selling and who are buying. The bottom line is just that the sellers sell to the customers the right things with correct quality/price and with the after-sale service. We will never have the chance and time to have a drink face-to-face with our customers, but we are happy that our customers could always have a great time with their rider friends around them, with our bike products.

    Quote Originally Posted by YaMon View Post
    So glad to see someone that ACTUALLY has experience with dealing and understanding China post. As both of us know, there are so many horror stories and you cannot apply the same business ethics. Comparing Taiwan and China is like night and day....but to the average American, they are all Chinese.
    Carbon life, Carbon fan!
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  28. #28
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    That's quite quite quite normal that many agents exist, we think. As nobody can buy an automobile and a cigarett directly from the factories FORD and MARLBORO............How can the boss of the factory have the time to deal with millions of final customers?! The role of supermarkets is very important, isn't it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Surfdog93 View Post
    bktide said "we are not the same one, but most rim and wheels are from the same factories, so some photos are same."…… I see this in the fire equipment industry (my business) as well, same images being used between (many) "companies". And, unless you have someone over there, you really can't tell who you are really dealing with, but most likely it is an agent. And, usually this "company" is a 1-man operation working from his home.
    Carbon life, Carbon fan!
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  29. #29
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    A lot of people attach the great importance to the photos. So, one more pic showing the new technology that enhances the stiffness of the bead part: a titanium wire inside.
    People believe that it would work better?
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    Carbon life, Carbon fan!
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeshulEd View Post
    Does carbon-bicycle = light-bicycle because you use the same photos?
    Same products, same photos, not same sellers.
    That's pretty common in China, you'll see this if you go to have a look at www.aliexpress.com.
    TKS
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  31. #31
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    Same Bull $hit, different Bull $hitter. Go away already. You have no clue of ethics, NONE!
    Quote Originally Posted by bktide View Post
    Same products, same photos, not same sellers.
    That's pretty common in China, you'll see this if you go to have a look at www.aliexpress.com.
    TKS
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  32. #32
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    We understand fully that you disagree to this fact. So, just ignore it, pls.
    Needn't to talk in this way................We are sorry for that.
    Tks
    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Same Bull $hit, different Bull $hitter. Go away already. You have no clue of ethics, NONE!
    Carbon life, Carbon fan!
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Same Bull $hit, different Bull $hitter. Go away already. You have no clue of ethics, NONE!
    You heard it here first.....you will begin to see an onslaught of these guys popping up very soon. Get ready for the spamming and hope they dont crack into MTBR's website and get your email addresses. Prices are going to go down and rip offs are going to go up. Quality will drop as well....this is the beginning folks. I am not trolling...just the facts, you have all been lucky up to now.

  34. #34
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    Yeah, you are right. We believe so. Really sorry for that.
    Thank you, Yamon.
    Quote Originally Posted by YaMon View Post
    You heard it here first.....you will begin to see an onslaught of these guys popping up very soon. Get ready for the spamming and hope they dont crack into MTBR's website and get your email addresses. Prices are going to go down and rip offs are going to go up. Quality will drop as well....this is the beginning folks. I am not trolling...just the facts, you have all been lucky up to now.
    Carbon life, Carbon fan!
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  35. #35
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    So has anybody bought these rims? Would they?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    So has anybody bought these rims? Would they?
    So...why don't you do some vetting. Go on their website and compare it to light-Bicycle.com ( not an endorsement ) and tell me what the differences are ?? Take a look at the "about us " section and compare. Look at the Research and Development Section and see the post above where it states they just buy from a company and sell it to you.....What would you do ??
    Last edited by Atomik Carbon; 11-20-2013 at 10:56 AM. Reason: spelling

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by YaMon View Post
    So...why don't you do some vetting. Go on their website and compare it to light-Bicycle.com ( not an endorsement ) and tell me what the differences are ?? Take a look at the "about us " section and compare. Look at the Research and Development Section and see the post above where it states they just buy from a company and sell it to you.....What would you do ??
    I think you missed a bit of sarcasm. I should have used emoticons.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    I think you missed a bit of sarcasm. I should have used emoticons.
    Sorry, but these guys just P-SS me off because they do not follow any rules and most times get away with it.....

  39. #39
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    I know guys that use chinese carbon road wheels and have had good success with them but to me, mtb wheels are different. No one is barreling down the side of mountain or jumping off cliffs on a road bike.

    R&D goes a long way and putting my life on the line because a rim takes a nice photograph or whatever doesn't really justify the savings of a few hundred dollars.
    Hey guys, lets go play bieks!

  40. #40
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    Still trying to understand the purpose of the ti wire........

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeZee View Post
    Still trying to understand the purpose of the ti wire........
    It's called marketing.....someone should have it tested, probably aluminum wire...it serves no purpose, as far as I can tell...

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by YaMon View Post
    It's called marketing.....someone should have it tested, probably aluminum wire...it serves no purpose, as far as I can tell...
    I would have to agree with you on this.
    When I first saw it I thought the wire ain't thick enough to do anything really.
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  43. #43
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    Maybe just paper or water inside...............Don't believe CB at all, nor Derby, nor ZIPP, until seeing it...........
    Quote Originally Posted by YaMon View Post
    It's called marketing.....someone should have it tested, probably aluminum wire...it serves no purpose, as far as I can tell...
    Carbon life, Carbon fan!
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by YaMon View Post
    It's called marketing.....someone should have it tested, probably aluminum wire...it serves no purpose, as far as I can tell...
    The material around the wire looks awfully thin.....me thinks the wire would make a weaker rim.... Dunno

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeZee View Post
    The material around the wire looks awfully thin.....me thinks the wire would make a weaker rim.... Dunno
    I think they just use the wire for shape purpose. By using a wire and placing the layers of carbon fiber over it , you get the bead hook.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfcb View Post
    I think they just use the wire for shape purpose. By using a wire and placing the layers of carbon fiber over it , you get the bead hook.
    Why do you need a wire for shaping purposes when the other rims don't need to ?? In addition, it makes the Layer that is the most important ( impact strength) thinner.

  47. #47
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    I'm going to buy me a pair of this 35mm rims.

    Still don't know who to buy them from, I guess that I'll get the same rims whoever I buy them from.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeshulEd View Post
    I know guys that use chinese carbon road wheels and have had good success with them but to me, mtb wheels are different. No one is barreling down the side of mountain or jumping off cliffs on a road bike.

    R&D goes a long way and putting my life on the line because a rim takes a nice photograph or whatever doesn't really justify the savings of a few hundred dollars.
    I have two sets of the Light Bicycle Carbon rims and they have been bullet proof and very solid. Best purchase I have made in a long time. You should read the cheap carbon rims thread with all of the success stories. And it is a lot more than a "few" hundred dollars.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by YaMon View Post
    Sorry, but these guys just P-SS me off because they do not follow any rules and most times get away with it.....
    This thinking is kind of ridiculous. You might be a bit shocked to find this out but most companies operate by coping each other and in a lot of cases selling the same re-branded products. People here seem to spout on an on about r&d and hard work done but really, what r&d? You are basing these arguments on pure speculation and assumption about the market. As if America is so high and mighty they would never copy each other like that. Except nearly all Treks are made by Giant. Some Schwinn bikes were made in Japan.

    What is a custom built 29+ but a copy of a Surly Krampus. Fatbikes in general for that matter until only very recently because they all had Surly wheels and tires. I'm pretty sure Kenda makes the tubes for both Trek and Specialized and Hutchinson makes their tubeless road tires. Hayes rolls Stan's No Tubes rims and even licensed, which is to say, paid to copy, Stan's tubeless design for their own wheel sets. Stan's hubs are made in Taiwan and sold under a few brands.

    I mean that's only bike stuff off the top of my head. How many producers of table salt are there compared to supermarket brands? All HDMI cables are produced in China by one of three factories. How many brands of HDMI cables are there? I got some direct from China when the average cable was 1M for $40-80, which I think they may still be near that price on average, for $3.50 each. I didn't get some super cheap looking cable either. I got to choose from a variety of about 10 colors and all were gold terminated. You can't buy a US made cable. NO ONE in the US has the capability of producing the cable and even if they did, no one then has the ability of terminating, which is adding the plug end, the cable.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    This thinking is kind of ridiculous. You might be a bit shocked to find this out but most companies operate by coping each other and in a lot of cases selling the same re-branded products. People here seem to spout on an on about r&d and hard work done but really, what r&d? You are basing these arguments on pure speculation and assumption about the market. As if America is so high and mighty they would never copy each other like that. Except nearly all Treks are made by Giant. Some Schwinn bikes were made in Japan.

    What is a custom built 29+ but a copy of a Surly Krampus. Fatbikes in general for that matter until only very recently because they all had Surly wheels and tires. I'm pretty sure Kenda makes the tubes for both Trek and Specialized and Hutchinson makes their tubeless road tires. Hayes rolls Stan's No Tubes rims and even licensed, which is to say, paid to copy, Stan's tubeless design for their own wheel sets. Stan's hubs are made in Taiwan and sold under a few brands.

    I mean that's only bike stuff off the top of my head. How many producers of table salt are there compared to supermarket brands? All HDMI cables are produced in China by one of three factories. How many brands of HDMI cables are there? I got some direct from China when the average cable was 1M for $40-80, which I think they may still be near that price on average, for $3.50 each. I didn't get some super cheap looking cable either. I got to choose from a variety of about 10 colors and all were gold terminated. You can't buy a US made cable. NO ONE in the US has the capability of producing the cable and even if they did, no one then has the ability of terminating, which is adding the plug end, the cable.
    Oh really.....so what do you say about guys like Derby that invests his personal funds into designing a wide rim when it was never done before......now those Chinese companies are coming out with the same designs. Thanks also to a lot of people on this forum. Personally if I had a new design I would never post it on the internet. Not that they cannot find it, but why make it easy for them...

    Based on all of the research I have done, the sales of China/Internet based sales are insignificant to the volume sold in bike shops. People are still scared from buying from China and still want to see, feel and touch the product.

    Guys that are buying from China direct are basically risking a lot to save money. Even if the product does not break, you still risk having something go bad and not have any recourse. Buyer beware.....This is the main reason these products will never be sold in a bike shop in the USA......the risk associated with failure. Every manufacturer or even reseller like ENVE, Reynolds, Sram, Stan has product liability.....

  51. #51
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    China cannot even produce safe dog food or children's toys. Are you going to trust their production culture of plastic rims on a 250 foot cliff? I have Chinese products all over my home, some great, some of suspicious quality. Buyer Beware. I vote for ENVE if I could afford. That 5 year ENVE warranty seems very reliable.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    This thinking is kind of ridiculous. You might be a bit shocked to find this out but most companies operate by coping each other and in a lot of cases selling the same re-branded products. People here seem to spout on an on about r&d and hard work done but really, what r&d? You are basing these arguments on pure speculation and assumption about the market. As if America is so high and mighty they would never copy each other like that. Except nearly all Treks are made by Giant. Some Schwinn bikes were made in Japan.

    What is a custom built 29+ but a copy of a Surly Krampus. Fatbikes in general for that matter until only very recently because they all had Surly wheels and tires. I'm pretty sure Kenda makes the tubes for both Trek and Specialized and Hutchinson makes their tubeless road tires. Hayes rolls Stan's No Tubes rims and even licensed, which is to say, paid to copy, Stan's tubeless design for their own wheel sets. Stan's hubs are made in Taiwan and sold under a few brands.

    I mean that's only bike stuff off the top of my head. How many producers of table salt are there compared to supermarket brands? All HDMI cables are produced in China by one of three factories. How many brands of HDMI cables are there? I got some direct from China when the average cable was 1M for $40-80, which I think they may still be near that price on average, for $3.50 each. I didn't get some super cheap looking cable either. I got to choose from a variety of about 10 colors and all were gold terminated. You can't buy a US made cable. NO ONE in the US has the capability of producing the cable and even if they did, no one then has the ability of terminating, which is adding the plug end, the cable.



    Poisoned pet food, lead in childrens toys, counterfeit electronics. You use false logic. Shall we continue with your strawman?

  53. #53
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    It's the culture of production and standards I am talking about. That permeates right into any bike component manufacturer. Sure, China can produce as high a standard as anyone, but how do you tell the difference between good or bad quality by a label/sticker, on newer products? I will continue to pay a higher price for rims than others. I will buy from a reputable company with a track record and warranty when buying a rim. Some will save money instead, and that product may be just as good, it is difficult to say.

  54. #54
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    When there are thousands of posts in the Cheap China Carbon rim thread with MANY, MANY success stories why would anyone doubt how nice the rims are? They are by far one of the best upgrades I have done in a long time. The equivalent Enve wheelset (if you can consider the slower engagement of DTSwiss' versus I9's) would be 2.5 times what I spent on mine.

  55. #55
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    Was recently on a rim that tacoed. That was a real world experience. I was hammering up a hill, on pavement, on an old Schwinn Grocery getter. That wheel collapsed in the street. If I were flying down an 8 inch wide singletrack, on a 250 foot cliff, I would have been injured or killed. Very eye opening thing to go through. You guys can test these no name Carbon Wheels, I will buy one once they have a reputation worthy of my money. Good luck, and I really mean that. Driving cost down is great.m

  56. #56
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    Your old Schwinn grocery getter with really old Aluminum rims? Seems if you would hammer on a bike like this, you would be willing to take a risk on really strong carbon rims.

  57. #57
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    Like the debating, informative. Real world testing results matter, no matter the price-point, IMO.

    But...why has this thread gone on. Giving the OP more and more views when the OP couldnt/wouldnt pay for SPAM posting thereby helping MTBR, which we all like.
    SPAM is what this thread started out as, correct?

    Yea, Im going to buy a product from someone with low enough scruples, and apparently to low of funding, to post this thread legitimately....pass.
    Last edited by Gear Head; 12-24-2013 at 12:17 AM.

  58. #58
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    Bigger the rim, bigger the tire, tires aren't light.

  59. #59
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    Well I think it is great that some of you understand why I will not buy from LB and I. Play......it not all abut the final product, is about the practices that they use to sell. The guys that will support these type of tactics have never and will never start a business or put effort into something.....nope just consume without any conscience.

    I hope guys like Derby and Nox stop publishing their rims specs online, they don't understand that they are allowing some of these Cinese companies to copy their designs. You won't find ENVE posting measurements and technical drawings. If you know about product design, you will notice the Chinese still use a rim design that is not as strong as ENVE......not going to say anymore.....

    I do hope that the more and more people ask them to produce rim designs on the fringe and relatively small markets will cost them in the long run. I do think that some of these rims are getting too wide and will only be bought by a relatively small market. These rim designs will be profitable only for one or two manufacturers....

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by YaMon View Post
    Oh really.....so what do you say about guys like Derby that invests his personal funds into designing a wide rim when it was never done before.....
    Derby didn't really design anything, what I mean is, his money isn't in R&D. He didn't come up with anything. He went to a manufacturer with some money and said. I want a rim like this and sent a sketch and some specs. There wasn't a 35mm or 40mm carbon rim before because no one thought there was a market for such a product. Not because the Chinese didn't already have the ability to make such a product. Derby paid for the molds, maybe some insurance and/or legal fees, and he was selling something. The Chinese made it. They don't need to look at specs on his website, they can go down the street and hold one in their hands and talk to the person that actually made them.

    As for people being reluctant to buy Chinese product? Hardly. You must be joking. Last time I check Wal-Mart was still pretty profitable. Chinese quality? Learn something. Who do you think made your computer? Your smart phone? Carbon manufacturing? LED technology? China and the Chinese.

    People have a problem ADMITTING they buy Chinese stuff because more often than not you are. Hell, how much food is imported into America?

    Quote Originally Posted by hoolie View Post
    China cannot even produce safe dog food or children's toys. Are you going to trust their production culture of plastic rims on a 250 foot cliff? I have Chinese products all over my home, some great, some of suspicious quality. Buyer Beware. I vote for ENVE if I could afford. That 5 year ENVE warranty seems very reliable.
    China can produce many things at many price points. Unsafe children's toys with lead paint? That isn't just a problem of China, we make those problems.

    IE; Chinese toy factory can make a toy truck. They can make one for $5 per truck. American company comes in and says I'll give you $3 per truck and I'll buy 1000. Americans use their money as power to dictate manufacturing conditions and quality control and always want it cheaper. Now we have a prototype that cost 5 dollars to produce but we are selling for 3 dollars, how do you make it cheaper? Cut the cost on the materials. Wal-Mart will give us 1.50 each but they'll buy 1,000,000. How can we make it cheaper? It's a never ending spiral down. With electronics, you will often see two models now for the same version. For example, there is a Sony 50" 1080p (insert features) TV and Walmart has the "same" 50" TV with the same features 1080p and all that except they aren't the same. They are actually different and the Walmart version contains inferior components comparatively.

    The thing is with manufacturing, is that if you want "made in America" quality and service life, in terms of high quality standards etc, it will be expensive no matter where it comes from be it China, America, UK, Russia, Czech Republic, or Cambodia.

    Fake products don't come from the LBS...

  61. #61
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    [QUOTE=GTR-33;10893399]Derby didn't really design anything, what I mean is, his money isn't in R&D. He didn't come up with anything. He went to a manufacturer with some money and said. I want a rim like this and sent a sketch and some specs. There wasn't a 35mm or 40mm carbon rim before because no one thought there was a market for such a product. Not because the Chinese didn't already have the ability to make such a product. Derby paid for the molds, maybe some insurance and/or legal fees, and he was selling something. The Chinese made it. They don't need to look at specs on his website, they can go down the street and hold one in their hands and talk to the person that actually made them.

    Don't preach to me about how the Chinese operate. I deal with Taiwan and China all the time. I never said they could not manufacturer. I did say that they do not change a design till someone else has taken the risk and incurred the expense to do so. Do you really think they would have just come out with a 35-40mm rim by themselves ?? They are unimaginative and just plain steal and copy....Have you ever seen the war planes that the Chinese produce ?? Look them up and see what they resemble ?? Do you know how much of your tax dollars went into those designs ??

    Funny how they came out with a road aero rim and made the gloss finish right where the brake track was suppose to be.....do you think that would have happened if they knew anything about cycling ??

    But that is ok, everyone has a tolerance for risk. There are not many bike shops that will sell these because of the risk.....figure even a small ( 250k) lawsuit could shut them down. If there are any bike shops importing, they will tend to be very small and taking a hell of a risk...but as I said before, if you don't have assets to protect, then go ahead and take the risk........

  62. #62

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by YaMon View Post
    Don't preach to me about how the Chinese operate. I deal with Taiwan and China all the time. I never said they could not manufacturer. I did say that they do not change a design till someone else has taken the risk and incurred the expense to do so. Do you really think they would have just come out with a 35-40mm rim by themselves ??

    Funny how they came out with a road aero rim and made the gloss finish right where the brake track was suppose to be.....do you think that would have happened if they knew anything about cycling ??
    Shopping at Costco and Walmart doesn't count as dealing with the Chinese on a regular basis but i digress. As for changing and copying... why would any person who's primary interest is making money suddenly stop making a high selling product, normal width rims, to produce something they don't actually think will sell? Why don't they think it will sell? The Chinese don't know why Americans clamor over carbon rims to begin with. Carbon wheels are a niche and 35mm carbon wheels are an even smaller niche. It took a private citizen to invest his own money to make it happen and he doesn't sell thousands of rims. Trek or Specialized, or anyone could have made these rims happen from the start of carbon technology but people hardly purchase a rim in that width in any material.

    How many Russian tax dollars went into the Mig we stole from them? What happened to the 100 million plus indigenous population of north America? How did so many Africans get there?

    Funny how an aero rim has a glossy brake track? Not really, but it make sense to me. When someone buys a 150 USD rim, should they really be expecting it to compare to a rim that is nearly ten times more expensive? Do you really expect a Yugo to out drive a BMW or at least get a BMW for the price of a Yugo? You get what you pay for. People want CHEAP CARBON; THEY GET CHEAP CARBON. Give the Chinese 2K usd for two rims and see if you get the same cheap looking knock off.

    LASTLY, Stop linking Alibaba here, how do you think they even know of this web site? People like you go searching the internets all the time for the cheapest carbon products and are surprised you found a knock off on a black market website. You can buy people credit card information on Alibaba, of course you can get a knock off Pinarello on that site. You can pay with bitcoins, the worlds most used black market currency, and notoriously used in black market crime.

    Bike shops don't sell these products. People shopping for a CHEAP Pinarello buy them because they are too cheap to pay anything near retail. The point is, because these products exist and one should pay attention to what they are buying, doesn't mean that the same rule applies to all Chinese products. If you want a Zipp wheel or an S-Works Tarmac you just have to buy one. Derbys rims are made in China, and so is a real S-Works Tarmac. You get what you pay for.

  64. #64
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    Everyone, please watch this Documentary. It is titled Death By China
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...58187178,d.Yms
    If you have a PC, game system, or Roku hooked to your media hardware, its free to see. Havent really needed to search to find to see it myself.



    Stiilll wondering why this SPAM thread lives.......
    Last edited by Gear Head; 12-24-2013 at 11:33 PM.

  65. #65
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    In China, up to now, only ONE manufacturer is really specialized in producing the MTB carbon rims (I mean the real manufacturer, not reseller). Almost all the Chinese trade companies buy and resell them to the world.
    We in China don't know how many rims that Derby and ENVE sell a day, but we can see this ONE manufacturer does sell more and more. It is enlarging the production scale right now. This year, its purpose is to produce around 1500 MTB rims per month. So, any way, the Chinese rims are more and more accepted in terms of quantity.
    Quote Originally Posted by YaMon View Post
    Well I think it is great that some of you understand why I will not buy from LB and I. Play......it not all abut the final product, is about the practices that they use to sell. The guys that will support these type of tactics have never and will never start a business or put effort into something.....nope just consume without any conscience.

    I hope guys like Derby and Nox stop publishing their rims specs online, they don't understand that they are allowing some of these Cinese companies to copy their designs. You won't find ENVE posting measurements and technical drawings. If you know about product design, you will notice the Chinese still use a rim design that is not as strong as ENVE......not going to say anymore.....

    I do hope that the more and more people ask them to produce rim designs on the fringe and relatively small markets will cost them in the long run. I do think that some of these rims are getting too wide and will only be bought by a relatively small market. These rim designs will be profitable only for one or two manufacturers....
    Carbon life, Carbon fan!
    MTB carbon rims & wheels, www.carbonbicycle.cc

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by bktide View Post
    In China, up to now, only ONE manufacturer is really specialized in producing the MTB carbon rims (I mean the real manufacturer, not reseller). Almost all the Chinese trade companies buy and resell them to the world.
    We in China don't know how many rims that Derby and ENVE sell a day, but we can see this ONE manufacturer does sell more and more. It is enlarging the production scale right now. This year, its purpose is to produce around 1500 MTB rims per month. So, any way, the Chinese rims are more and more accepted in terms of quantity.
    First, this is total BS.....When you say only ONE manufacturer produces these carbon rims, you are referring to those companies that have been marketing through the internet ONLY. This the the company, Light Bicycle, IPlay, Nextie, and your company is buying from.....There are other companies that I know of that produce for Specialized, Santa Cruz, Reynolds, Pinarello, Storck, Ibis, Niner, and so on. These companies are very difficult to find. They do not sell to marketers/ trading companies like your company.....

    You need to be careful using the word "only" because you will make the people that buy from these marketing companies ( Internet based sellers) think they are getting the same quality.....

  67. #67
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    By suggesting this for production, you're thrusting a large amount of responsibility upon what you consider the average consumer; such a wide rim does require a specific tire design, one which has more sidewall and heavier shoulder knobs.

    Otherwise - low pressure will instantly collapse a sidewall w/o a working radius and the rim will be destroyed in quantities ten-fold.

    Your design would require a catalog of recommended tires, strict tire pressure to be sure no major catastrophe results from the majority of riders looking for the lightest bike weight going.

    I have 35MM wide rims which are ultra lite weight, chose so out of the ability to run more stable, heavier tires for traction. The inclusion of a titanium insert will do nothing for rim failure as it will merely collapse as quick as the rim will crack in the type of failure waiting for this proposed design.
    I like Sand - I don't like Witches


  68. #68
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    To this extent, the word "ONLY" is not suitable.
    Yes, what I mean by "ONLY", is the one manufacturer who work with the reseller companies.
    Of course, the Specialized and other world brands own their own manufacturers in China, Such as those very big manufacturers, Entreprise Xinkai and Entreprise Taihe, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by YaMon View Post
    First, this is total BS.....When you say only ONE manufacturer produces these carbon rims, you are referring to those companies that have been marketing through the internet ONLY. This the the company, Light Bicycle, IPlay, Nextie, and your company is buying from.....There are other companies that I know of that produce for Specialized, Santa Cruz, Reynolds, Pinarello, Storck, Ibis, Niner, and so on. These companies are very difficult to find. They do not sell to marketers/ trading companies like your company.....

    You need to be careful using the word "only" because you will make the people that buy from these marketing companies ( Internet based sellers) think they are getting the same quality.....
    Carbon life, Carbon fan!
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  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haint View Post
    By suggesting this for production, you're thrusting a large amount of responsibility upon what you consider the average consumer; such a wide rim does require a specific tire design, one which has more sidewall and heavier shoulder knobs.

    Otherwise - low pressure will instantly collapse a sidewall w/o a working radius and the rim will be destroyed in quantities ten-fold.

    Your design would require a catalog of recommended tires, strict tire pressure to be sure no major catastrophe results from the majority of riders looking for the lightest bike weight going.

    I have 35MM wide rims which are ultra lite weight, chose so out of the ability to run more stable, heavier tires for traction. The inclusion of a titanium insert will do nothing for rim failure as it will merely collapse as quick as the rim will crack in the type of failure waiting for this proposed design.
    And this has been one of the points I have tried to get across....Ya can't get to em if ya don't know where to find them......as long as people are buying, they will sell it.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by bktide View Post
    To this extent, the word "ONLY" is not suitable.
    Yes, what I mean by "ONLY", is the one manufacturer who work with the reseller companies.
    Of course, the Specialized and other world brands own their own manufacturers in China, Such as those very big manufacturers, Entreprise Xinkai and Entreprise Taihe, etc.
    Ah yes....back to the Blue Building again...........

  71. #71
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    now I want 50mm rims 29er! since I got fat
    and I'am sure you can sell more than an 100+, probably 1000+, Krampus is the word.
    that be 500 sets; oh, big fat S. can move 500 lim. edition pugs in 2 month.
    on the Fat, 60mm,80mm on 26" fat be good too .

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haint View Post
    such a wide rim does require a specific tire design, one which has more sidewall and heavier shoulder knobs.

    Otherwise - low pressure will instantly collapse a sidewall w/o a working radius and the rim will be destroyed in quantities ten-fold.
    Rubbish

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by rschultz101 View Post
    now I want 50mm rims 29er! since I got fat
    and I'am sure you can sell more than an 100+, probably 1000+, Krampus is the word.
    that be 500 sets; oh, big fat S. can move 500 lim. edition pugs in 2 month.
    on the Fat, 60mm,80mm on 26" fat be good too .
    50mm 29er rims, 2 for me too.

    I just got the 35mm ones for the full sus, 50mm would be nice for my AM HT

  74. #74
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    I got some 35mm rimed wheels today. Broke 2 plastic tire levers getting the tire on. I can't even get close to seating the tire before I try and add sealant, at least not with my floor pump. I don't have a Presta to Schrader adapter, so no gas station will help tonight... Guess I won't know until some more messing around tomorrow if I can get them to hold air tubeless. Fingers crossed as then I'll get to ride them in the dark after work hopefully.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding View Post
    I got some 35mm rimed wheels today. Broke 2 plastic tire levers getting the tire on. I can't even get close to seating the tire before I try and add sealant, at least not with my floor pump. I don't have a Presta to Schrader adapter, so no gas station will help tonight... Guess I won't know until some more messing around tomorrow if I can get them to hold air tubeless. Fingers crossed as then I'll get to ride them in the dark after work hopefully.
    Did you buy the rims that were shown in the initial post of this thread?

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    Did you buy the rims that were shown in the initial post of this thread?
    I wasn't sure so I had to go look. But no. I believe mine are the new hookless bead rims from LB.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding View Post
    I wasn't sure so I had to go look. But no. I believe mine are the new hookless bead rims from LB.
    Too bad, I was hoping to someone had experience with these rims.

    Hey bktide: How about some 50mm 29er rims? Those will be the next big thing, I will buy a set ASAP!

  78. #78
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    29er carbon rim with 35mm width

    Did you get them to seat? What tires? So I am guessing that the hookless rim is indeed taller and hard to get the tire over?

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy17 View Post
    Did you get them to seat? What tires? So I am guessing that the hookless rim is indeed taller and hard to get the tire over?
    If you are talking to me... I put a Maxxis Ardent 2.4 on the front and a 2.25 on the rear. I'll use them for a while before I decide if I like them. I had been using a Purg 2.3? on the front and a Captain 2.2 on the rear that was getting really worn.

    I took the wheels with tires mounted to a new bike shop near me. The tech there broke the bead open and added sealant, and pretty much made the whole process look super easy. I rode the wheels for a short period before it started getting too wet and foggy. So not enough real time on them yet for me to have any ideas about them. Overall they were stupidly over expensive (don't ask), and they only saved me about .38 lbs. But hopefully they ride great... More time to ride and decide later on that.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    Rubbish
    Explain this for me... because not providing any sidewall from the tire to extend beyond the width of the rim usually means a tire is too narrow, and since bike tires are not belted the only part of construction maintaining shape will be the air volume and where the contact patch is over the rim.

    Too narrow of a tire can destroy a wide rim.
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