Results 1 to 6 of 6
  1. #1
    parts leftover
    Reputation: schlim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    957

    x-post: long review of 2011 Epic Expert Carbon Evo R 29er

    [my review re-posted from Specialized forum]

    I finished a race in May thinking that I'd chosen the wrong weapon for the course. It was loose and had several rock gardens in it that made it seem like my hardtail was rolling backward compared to other riders. On smooth, relatively flat courses, my carbon hardtail 26er is incredibly fast, but I was totally beat down after slamming through rock gardens and being unable to retain any momentum pedaling through them. Two teammates asked, "Why aren't you riding a 29er?" My experience with 29" bikes has been limited to a Haro rigid singlespeed steel bike that I had for a year or so and then sold because I had no idea what to do with it, and a Gary Fisher Superfly demo that was disappointing due to a poorly tuned rear shock. I also rode a Specialized Epic Comp alloy demo bike for 60 miles training in April but it was pushing 30 lbs and it didn't feel magical or really anything more than "fine".

    My teammates, who finished in front of me, handed their carbons Epics over to me for a quick spin. The medium Epic Expert felt a little small, but surprisingly nimble. After riding the 26" hardtail, the large Epic Evo felt a bit like a truck, but the most interesting thing was now nicely controlled the suspension was though the really rough terrain. Because of a shortage of time, I didn't get a full test ride though.

    So I negotiated another ride on that large 2011 Epic Evo R 29er a couple of weeks ago to do some hammering on one of my favorite local trail systems - one that Lance is rumored to enjoy when he is in town. It's ideal because I know every inch of it and how my hardtail, 4", and 6" travel bikes respond. I also know that I can rule out a bike real quick if it doesn't feel right on that loop. Basically, it's straight up a mountain climbing singletrack for 45 minutes, a rocket ride down, and a cut over to another set of trails that are steeper and take me back to the foot of the mountain. This late in the season, the trails are covered in a fine, thick moondust that sits over hardpack and gravel. It's the sort of trail condition that makes me nervous sometimes because stuff doesn't always hook up like it should in corners and steep chutes.

    I'm going to say some very good things about this bike, but I feel compelled to put in a word regarding the Epic's appearance. On a bike that is one notch below the top of the line unobtainium S-Works, you expect a certain level of elegance and craftsmanship. The carbon front triangle looks good. The downtube is straight (thankfully), without the useless bend at the bottom bracket that seems to be the industry fetish right now (regardless of shock and water bottle clearance). However, the aluminum rear triangle doesn't match the front. The joints look as if they're dipped in gunk rather than neatly welded together. It looks terrible. Is Taiwan incapable of welding metal attractively? I assume they are solid, but I'm spoiled by the SAPA weld work on my other bikes. Specialized, take a page from Turner and Intense and pay attention to the detail work in welding and machining. It's not as if boutique bikes are more expensive to buy than Specialized at this point. Plus, does anyone else find it ironic that bikes used to add carbon seatstays to alloy main triangles to enhance stiffness, save weight, and tune the ride? It's not 2005 anymore. For $5200 Specialized ought to put a carbon rear triangle on their bike. Just guessing, but I can't imagine Yeti bolting an alloy rear triangle onto a carbon SB95 or Ibis putting an aluminum back end on the Ripley.

    Secondly, the SRAM crankset is one ugly beast. XT, XTR, and Middleburn's R8 are practically works of art. This thing is a merely a hunk of composite. However, the PF30 system worked fine and the cranks seem solid, so functionally I have no complaints. I'm also not a fan of the Specialized grips, but this is clearly just a rider preference issue. They are too small in diameter and feel unnecessarily hard. I'd switch them out for Ritchey WCS foam, ESI, or ODI Rogues.

    I should mention that this particular Epic Evo has been upgraded with the carbon Roval SL wheelset with the DT Swiss internals. Set up tubeless with ~24psi, the wheels were clearly turbocharging the ride, making this bike feel *very* different than the 30lb Epic Comp I rode. This Evo is 23.3lbs without pedals.

    Regarding fit, I felt that this bike was spot-on in nearly every way. Knee clearance and standover height is enhanced by the flying butress seattube brace in the large that I rode. The owner inverted the stem and ran it with a low rise carbon bar that felt pretty close to right, although the 105mm stem was perhaps 5mm too long for me. Either way, the cockpit felt pretty good, and I was even surprised by how comfortable the stock Specialized Phenom saddle was. Specialized is getting their saddles right, and I have a Romin Pro Ti installed on my own road bike. However, the Phenom had loosened up considerably at the interface between the rails and the shell, giving me an odd feeling of flex on climbs when riding fast on flat ground.

    On the pavement, the Renegade and Fast Track tires had a rolling resistance similar to what I've experienced with a Conti Race King. This is to say, not much resistance at all. In fact, the sensation was more akin to riding my road bike than any full suspension rig I've suffered on the road with before. I felt a little more tug in a forward direction than a similar cadence would produce on my standard mountain rides. The brain was clearly doing it's part to keep the rear feeling solid, preventing excessive translation of motion into shock movement. There was a touch of bobbing (just a few mm at 6 clicks of the brain), but it took the buzz out of the chipseal somewhat and didn't feel inefficient enough to warrant cranking up the brain threshold.

    I hit the fireroad and I couldn't make it up the climb on big wheels!

    Just kidding.

    In reality, I did need every tooth in the 36t rear cog with only the single chainring, but the bike powered right up. The slight movement the brain allowed in the rear facilitated some active traction on the climb without succumbing to squat. Bike squat bugs me tremendously, but reaching for pro pedal for compression damping always makes the suspension perform like mush in my opinion. The brain's on/off is clearly preferable to mere increased resistance that causes the bike to kick back over real trail obstacles and interrupt my spin technique. The brain is seamless, but almost feels like a bottom out when it opens that doesn't have a harsh jolt at the end. It's as if you feel the bike hit a large exposed root, and then feel it sink into the group before it can cause the bike to buck. It's weird and different, but highly effective.

    While I'm mostly a sit and spin rider, when I stood up (primarily due to the single chainring) the bike powered over all sorts of stair step chunk that can (and does) stop my standard mountain bikes dead. Part of it was clearly the lower tire pressure, but these tires do not have the tread aggressiveness to account for all of this ability. Several times, as I was negotiating a short, steep section, the bike carried its speed through the crest and over where my other bikes stall out. I even pedaled straight up a rock formation that I normally go around on a better line, and the bike shockingly plowed right up and through. The bike also held onto the edge of some of the off-camber sections of trail that had been turned into moguls by motorcycle throttles without sliding back down into the rut. Additionally, there were no drawbacks to the bike around some switchbacks that I negotiated well on the Epic, but give me some problems on other bikes (sometimes, I believe, due to squat and dive in the suspension). I didn't have to put a foot down, and the relatively short wheelbase of the Epic (for a 29er) worked in my favor here.

    On flatter sections, the Epic stood out in its ability to flow smoothly through rock gardens that an knock me off my line or cause a kick through the saddle on repeated hits. This trait is fairly remarkable given the relatively short amount of travel coupled with an auto-lockout feature in the Brain. As an endurance racer, being able to stay seated and spinning when things get not so smooth on the ground is a big advantage in energy savings. A propedal lever to prevent rider-induced movement isn't helpful in this type of terrain because the compression slows down the ability of the shock to react. Just opening to swallow rocks is much preferable, in my opinion.

    Descending, the bike continued to shine. I can describe it best as being connected to a slot in a track. The Evo just had this oddly solid and planted feel through some really loose dust, gravel, and occasional loose babyhead rocks. My guess is that the contact patch was making a difference here, but in my opinion, the Fisher Superfly 100 did not exhibit this same trait. The rear travel didn't feel like any more than 100mm on the Epic, but the bike was certainly using it well and not getting bogged down as speed increased. If I can descend mostly seated, I'm happier overall, and the bike let me do that. While the carbon front end and carbon Rovals seemed solid, the bike has a slight "twang" (for lack of a better term) out of the apex of corners. It provides a little extra burst of speed into the next section and actually helped me recover from an error at one point. I took the bike too sharply into an off-camber turn and started to lose the rear wheel in a slide. The bike sort of "snapped to" and shot off in my original intended direction. A demo bike merits huge points bike when it saves you from a yardsale.

    I used the brakes quite a bit less on the Evo than I do on my 26ers. With the bike allowing me to reset after choosing a bad line, I got more and more comfortable just carving through 90 degree turns without brake feather for control. The Avids felt very on/off to me without much modulation but didn't warble like a dying turkey like other Avid brakes I've had the misfortune to come across. I'm glad the 2012 Experts are getting Formula R1s. Strangely, I got sketched out on an 8" drop to transition that needs to be rolled given it's orientation. I have no explanation for this, but I had to step off. I'll just put this one in the "that's odd" category, because the bike did fine on other small drops and stair rollers.

    The Reba fork was acting pretty sticky and gave me some forearm tightness on the ride down. It's possible that it didn't have enough negative air pressure or that it needed an oil change to get things loosened up. I didn't mess around with the brain setting, but it wasn't a full lock out when compression the fork hard while on the bike. With the brain engaged, the fork felt a little gooshy. There was no brake dive, which was good for descending, but the fork quality of travel was not the same as my SID or Revelation 150. My guess is that it wasn't coming anywhere near full travel. I'll be interested to see what the SID 29er Brain fork acts like on the 2012 bikes. It's hard to fault the bike here for what might have been a maintenance or tuning issue, and the bike was great overall in spite of it.

    The Evo's single 34t chainring was perfect for all kinds of climbing. I never wanted a granny gear to get myself up and over something. However, as an endurance racer, I'd prefer a double up front to avoid blowing up my legs on climbs over a 12 or 24 hour period. Otherwise, as an all around bike, there's no way I'd need a front derailleur.

    Lastly, there was a continual popping sound throughout the ride that resonated through the carbon. I don't know if it was the bottom bracket, chainring, the saddle that was separating from its rails, the seatpost, or a sticky pivot. The sound was not something I'd be able to tolerate for very long without tearing the bike down to find out what the source was. I'm pretty sure it wasn't the mini-brain out back, but I can't rule anything out.

    I returned the Evo to it's owner and said "You didn't tell me you've been on a cheater bike all season." I'll bet the Epic is cheaper than EPO and HGH. The verdict is that the Epic Expert Carbon 29 will be my race rig for all sorts of events next year, along with the carbon Roval wheelset. I was sufficiently impressed that I'm picking this bike over some other good boutique options such as the Turner Flux, Ibis Mojo, Santa Cruz Blur carbon, and the Yeti ASR-5. The SB95 carbon and Ibis Ripley aren't available yet, but it would be neat to compare back to back. My main concern is long-term durability, but I have several bikes to split the miles and I'm not overly hard on them. I think some 3M helicopter tape for protection and regular maintenance will keep it running nicely. The carbon rear triangle of the S-Works Epic, different modulus carbon, and a couple of component updates aren't enough to offset the additional $3700 in cost after adding the carbon Roval SLs to the Expert. Seriously Specialized, include a carbon rear triangle for $5800.

    It's a great bike, though - very impressive.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    43
    Wow - Great post. Fun to read and very informative and intersting. Of course, since I just purchased the same bike last week with the Roval wheels and XX upgrade, I agree with you. The bike was 23lbs without pedals and the Renegade tires. However, now it's up to 25lbs because I put some beefy tires on it for Tahoe trip this week - I hate those grips and got the Ritchey foam today - they are so hard.
    And I just saved that 3700.00 price difference for my bike vacation. I also have a Turner Flux and an Ibis Mojo, and the S-Works Safire - I love the feel of the Epic! Can't wait for morning to see if I can get it up the mountain with the tank tires. ;-)

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    4,331
    I spent this race season on the Epic Expert Carbon. Loved it. Ended up hating the brains at the end of 100 milers though, just because by that point, I wanted to be able to have "full plush" on the downhills due to fatigue. Anywhere up to 5 or 6 hours though, the brains were great.

    It would be a perfect world if I could flip a lever on the fork and shock to engage/disengage the brains. It wouldn't happen often, but I would love it.

    The Rockshock fork's brain rattles incessantly, and Specialized can't figure it out, although they have been trying since April. Drove me nuts, and I ended up with a Fox Terralogic fork which does not rattle, seems a bit stiffer, and might have a bit better damping. Or it might just have new oil!

    I had the clunk, too, and it always seemed to be the main pivot, which requires crank removal to completely disassemble. I cheated, and just loosened the thing twice in a complete season, and dripped some lube down there, let it sit overnight, then enjoyed silence for a month or so after that.

    So next year, I'm sticking with the Big S, but going with a Camber. Just a bit more cush, a bit stiffer, and a real rear shock (I'm not a mini guy, so I don't think the mini shock is a winner for me). The new RP23 is pretty cool, with full firm propedal anytime it is engaged, and three levels of compression damping available in the "off" position.

    But I will surely miss my season of not ever having to be a Lever Flipping Monkey!!!!!
    The drive towards achievement and success is the motive power of civilization.

  4. #4
    parts leftover
    Reputation: schlim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    957
    It was a really tough decision to order the EEc29 over the Camber Pro 29.

    Since I didn't have a higher end Camber readily available, my decision came down to a great demo on the Epic and the reviews on the Camber saying it isn't quite as racy as the Epic. The Camber Pro comes with the pretty carbon wheels out of the box, though.

    The EEc29 comes with the new SID fork, which I'm hoping is an upgrade over the Reba. The brain swaps Specialized's damper cartridge for Rock Shox's black box motion control or mission control, so I'm not sure if the nice ride characteristics will carry over from other Rock Shox offerings.

    In 24hr races, I'll be pit stopping most laps and can switch off the brain if things get too harsh. Overall, though, the brain seems to be more effective than "stiff" xc suspension designs with a lot of compression damping built in to choke off reactivity to terrain.

  5. #5
    parts leftover
    Reputation: schlim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    957
    Quote Originally Posted by stenogrl View Post
    Wow - Great post.

    I also have a Turner Flux and an Ibis Mojo, and the S-Works Safire
    Thanks! Care to offer any opinions on the Epic ride compared to your DW link bikes? My other ride is a Turner 5 Spot, and its ride quality still amazes me every time I take it out on the trail.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    4,331
    Quote Originally Posted by schlim View Post
    Overall, though, the brain seems to be more effective than "stiff" xc suspension designs with a lot of compression damping built in to choke off reactivity to terrain.
    Very good point, and definitely true on the Superfly 100's single pivot rear suspension. I would be fine if the Camber had a brain out back, but that is not an option. I am, however, convinced for the moment that I am done with fork brains. Just too harsh in long races unless nearly wide open, and then what is the point since you are left with NO lockout option. It will be interesting to ride the Camber's new RP23 in back where you can choose from three levels of compression damping when the propedal lever is off, and propedal "on" is significantly stiffer than in year's past.

    Enjoy the Epic. I know I surely did (well, still actually am enjoying)!
    The drive towards achievement and success is the motive power of civilization.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 360
    Last Post: 07-09-2013, 07:39 AM
  2. 2011 Epic Carbon Expert 29er or Epic S-works 29er?
    By crimecrusher in forum Specialized
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 05-13-2012, 10:42 PM
  3. 2011 Epic Expert Carbon EVO R 29er Review (Long).
    By schlim in forum Specialized
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 09-19-2011, 06:01 PM
  4. 2011 Epic Expert Carbon EVO R 29er
    By Blade-Runner in forum Specialized
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 02-05-2011, 08:10 PM
  5. Replies: 11
    Last Post: 12-07-2010, 01:34 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •