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  1. #1
    GUIDANCE COUNSELOR
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    Why no 29ers in DH? Just kidding...


    Canfield

    from VitalMTB.com - photos by Spomer
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  2. #2
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    hello gorgeous!

  3. #3
    LCW
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    SUH-WEET!!!!!!!!!

    Wouldn't have expect from Canfield Bros... but awesome!!!!!!!

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    It justkeep getting better

  5. #5
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    Wowzers!



  6. #6
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    How did it do? I think that is the most important question, besides looking at a sick bike, 'specially a canfield.
    Try this: HTFU

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    Wowzers!

    Who knew that Edge made DH-friendly 29er rims?

  8. #8
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    Sah-weet. Life in exciting times...

  9. #9
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    I've been jonesin' for a 5-6" travel Canfield parallel link 29er for many moons. This, is beyond neat-o.
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  10. #10
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    the 29er format has a lot to offer the dh pilot better bump rollover , larger tyre contact patch, increased gyroscopic stability , ,, why are we so surprised then

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ade ward
    the 29er format has a lot to offer the dh pilot better bump rollover , larger tyre contact patch, increased gyroscopic stability , ,, why are we so surprised then
    Clueless. All those things are already accomplished using larger, heavier DH tires without the drawbacks of wagon wheels. Canfiield like so many small builders before them is looking to the 29'er market to prop up their sales. Most every paid DH pro has ridden a 29'er of some sort and when asked about racing DH on one they just laugh.
    "Do not touch the trim"

  12. #12
    UK based 29er Convert
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    Steve Peat was seen as saying on his Twitter feed that his Tall Boy in "Mint downhill" (his words not mine)

    Thats good enough for me ;-)

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    Clueless. All those things are already accomplished using larger, heavier DH tires without the drawbacks of wagon wheels. Canfiield like so many small builders before them is looking to the 29'er market to prop up their sales. Most every paid DH pro has ridden a 29'er of some sort and when asked about racing DH on one they just laugh.
    So, you're at least open to the idea...

  14. #14
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    Hey everyone- That frame is a old Balance frame I mod-ed for 29er wheels-
    The BB is 14.1- and it needs to be about 13.5 or so.
    The HA is 65 and I think 64 would be better.
    But the stays are at 17.25 with the slide back option to 17.75.
    The 17.25 feel awesome-

    I built this up to check the 29er wheels for DH. I rode the Lenz last fall in moab and loved it. So- I had to have one for myself to test for this season and see if it was quick enough in the corners and how they would jump. Those were my real concerns. But not any more.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by cSquared
    Hey everyone- That frame is a old Balance frame I mod-ed for 29er wheels-
    The BB is 14.1- and it needs to be about 13.5 or so.
    The HA is 65 and I think 64 would be better.
    But the stays are at 17.25 with the slide back option to 17.75.
    The 17.25 feel awesome-

    I built this up to check the 29er wheels for DH. I rode the Lenz last fall in moab and loved it. So- I had to have one for myself to test for this season and see if it was quick enough in the corners and how they would jump. Those were my real concerns. But not any more.
    Chris, Thanks for the info

  16. #16
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    Jamas Stiber, Factory Lenz 29er! DH

    Dude the Canfeild looks sweet! Glad to see 29ers getting on the DH Course!
    Devin and I are going to Race the PBJ This Weekend Angle Fire!!! Hope to see more 29er at the event.

    Here is a sneek Photo of our sick Rigs!



    Liven the Dream!

    J-Rock

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Stibe'
    Dude the Canfeild looks sweet! Glad to see 29ers getting on the DH Course!
    Devin and I are going to Race the PBJ This Weekend Angle Fire!!! Hope to see more 29er at the event.

    Here is a sneek Photo of our sick Rigs!



    Liven the Dream!

    J-Rock
    I cant wait for mine. I have been waiting a long time. Its good to see that he is getting closer to finishing them

  18. #18
    LCW
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    Nice rigs! Good luck!

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  19. #19
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    We Just sent yours off the the Powder coating Factory Yesterday! it is going to look sweet with the PBJ Camo paint!
    J-Rock

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Stibe'
    We Just sent yours off the the Powder coating Factory Yesterday! it is going to look sweet with the PBJ Camo paint!
    J-Rock
    WhoooHoooooo fantastic news. Cant wait to see how it rides and all the haters say here on the east coast. Thanks for the info.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2TurnersNotEnough
    Who knew that Edge made DH-friendly 29er rims?
    The Edge 29" AM rims are burlyhellastiff even in 32h. Mated to a dishless 150 rear hub and the 'twennyniner wheels are too flexy' argument vanishes, even on a DH rig.

    That doesn't mean they're indestructible, though--an impact hard enough to pinch a tube can dent and maybe even crack the rim.

    Fortunately, there are other choices in 29" DH rims for those of us not under contract with Edge.

    <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Yh1SZvWxc71wFCLrb3EoRqkSPGazL-W3ZE7WSvxtBaw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_Z3iU73Uw_T8/S_WNgIcV10I/AAAAAAAAWdw/hzG_Y9mic5I/s800/IMG_0025.JPG" /></a>

    Awesome looking bike Chris. Gonna go to production on 'em--even a limited batch?

    MC

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    Clueless. All those things are already accomplished using larger, heavier DH tires without the drawbacks of wagon wheels. Canfiield like so many small builders before them is looking to the 29'er market to prop up their sales. Most every paid DH pro has ridden a 29'er of some sort and when asked about racing DH on one they just laugh.
    Are you a mind reader? Just curious how you knew what Chris/Lance are thinking, probably even before they'd thunk it.



    Your sweeping negative generalizations seem to be getting sweepinger, and negativer. Off the meds?

    MC

  23. #23
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    Mike have any of those camo rims left?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    just looking to the 29'er market to prop up their sales.
    Yeah, unlike those other builders who just make 29ers for charity.

    fail

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    Clueless. Most every paid DH pro has ridden a 29'er of some sort and when asked about racing DH on one they just laugh.
    Famous last words.
    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ade ward
    the 29er format has a lot to offer the dh pilot better bump rollover , larger tyre contact patch, increased gyroscopic stability , ,, why are we so surprised then
    29er wheels don't offer a larger contact patch and their gyroscopic stability is the same, ounce for ounce. The heavier the wheel the more gyroscopic effect it has, even though none are all that significant. If that's "a lot to offer", it isn't much. Though I'm not a DH'er, I would expect they'd care more about wheel strength, suspension travel, and tire choice to bother with a 10% bigger wheel.

  27. #27
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    Maby the haters are spending too much time on this web-site and not enuf time on two wheels? Pretty lame to come searching for sh*t to talk! Try riding a 29er you will never play with kids bikes again: )

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj
    29er wheels don't offer a larger contact patch and their gyroscopic stability is the same, ounce for ounce. The heavier the wheel the more gyroscopic effect it has, even though none are all that significant. If that's "a lot to offer", it isn't much. Though I'm not a DH'er, I would expect they'd care more about wheel strength, suspension travel, and tire choice to bother with a 10% bigger wheel.
    You're completely wrong... 29ers DO have a larger contact patch... although not wider for the same given width tire as a 26er, it IS longer. This is simply physics.

    As for gyro effect (ie. rotational moment of inertia) - it's higher in a 29er wheel assembly, even for a same weight wheels set as a 26er. 1) most of the weight in a wheelset is concentrated at the outer circumference - ie. the TIRE 2) that tire mass is at a radius 11.5% further from center on a 29er than on a 26er.

    Not to mention the reduced angle of attack of a 29er wheel assembly. Perfect for steamrolling over rock gardens, which are abundant in well designed DH courses.


    Before completely dismissing 29er as a fad or way to make money, maybe the nay-sayers should actually RIDE a 29er, and by RIDE, I mean more than just a parking lot spin... Take a demo bike out to your favourite trail and THEN come back and let us know what you think.

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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI_canuck
    You're completely wrong... 29ers DO have a larger contact patch... although not wider for the same given width tire as a 26er, it IS longer. This is simply physics.
    .
    simple physics is that the size of the contact patch is primarily dependent on inflation pressure and load.

    it is longer (like you said) but also narrower (which has its advantages)

  30. #30
    LCW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    Clueless. All those things are already accomplished using larger, heavier DH tires without the drawbacks of wagon wheels. Canfiield like so many small builders before them is looking to the 29'er market to prop up their sales. Most every paid DH pro has ridden a 29'er of some sort and when asked about racing DH on one they just laugh.
    You're completely wrong too... Go ahead and email Jeff at Intense and ask him how the CRC/Intense WC boys like the 2951... go ahead... I dare you. Also our beloved Peaty himself tweeted a day or two ago about riding a Tallboy and raving about it's performance on flats and DH (as much DH as a Tallboy could handle I'd imagine). He commented about being leary about climbing, but that has nothing to do with the sport of DH now does it...

    If you knew anything, you'd know that other than the misconceptions and apprehension of 29ers in general by the hardcore freeriders and DHers, the BIGGEST hurdle for 29er DHers is TIRE SELECTION... Let's face it... some DHers will simply NOT give up their Minion DHFs, DHRs, or High Rollers, or whatever brand/model they are used to (Michelin, Schwalbe, etc.). Right now, I believe the WTB Dissent 2.5 is about the only choice for a true DH type tire in a 29er size currently.

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  31. #31
    LCW
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomn
    simple physics is that the size of the contact patch is primarily dependent on inflation pressure and load.

    it is longer (like you said) but also narrower (which has its advantages)
    I don't agree that it's automatically narrower, or at least not as much as to offset it's increased contact patch length... My reasoning is this: Since for a given width, the 29er will have more volume than the 26er. This would mean for a given load, the dynamic pressure in the 26er will be raised slightly higher than in the 29er, in turn allowing the 29er to maintain a larger footprint overall (because of its lower dynamic pressure vs that of the 26er).

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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI_canuck
    I don't agree that it's automatically narrower, or at least not as much as to offset it's increased contact patch length... My reasoning is this: Since for a given width, the 29er will have more volume than the 26er. This would mean for a given load, the dynamic pressure in the 26er will be raised slightly higher than in the 29er, in turn allowing the 29er to maintain a larger footprint overall (because of its lower dynamic pressure vs that of the 26er).
    You can disagree all you like, If all else is equal, same bike and rider weight it makes no difference what size tire you have. The total area of the contact patch or footprint will be the same. The shape will change but the area will be the same if it's a 24" or a 29" wheel.

    The same principle applies to a car. if you measure the total area of all four contact patches and you know the tire pressure, you can calculate the weight of the car.

    Ronnie.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie
    You can disagree all you like, If all else is equal, same bike and rider weight it makes no difference what size tire you have. The total area of the contact patch or footprint will be the same. The shape will change but the area will be the same if it's a 24" or a 29" wheel.

    The same principle applies to a car. if you measure the total area of all four contact patches and you know the tire pressure, you can calculate the weight of the car.

    Ronnie.
    And that, folks, is why high performance cars all ride on 14" wheels.
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  34. #34
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    I think what throws folks off is that it would seem that you can run less psi with the 29er (comparable tire size) due to the extra volume...therefore generating a bigger patch. But, you are correct...all being equal...same size patch.


  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI_canuck
    I don't agree that it's automatically narrower, or at least not as much as to offset it's increased contact patch length... My reasoning is this: Since for a given width, the 29er will have more volume than the 26er. This would mean for a given load, the dynamic pressure in the 26er will be raised slightly higher than in the 29er, in turn allowing the 29er to maintain a larger footprint overall (because of its lower dynamic pressure vs that of the 26er).
    Good point about the pressure. Yea, I agree that the 29er tire will need to compress more to reach the same pressure as a 26er tire so it should have an overall larger patch.
    But, it has been proven by a few of us here, that the angular momentum of a bicycle wheel is basically (and by that I mean using a mathematical approximation to a high degree of accuracy) dependent on the outer mass of its rim and tire. This is because a larger radius wheel rolls slower and also accelerates slower due to its lower angular velocity at any given speed. Wheel radius has no consequence - only rim/tire mass along with the spokes, nipples and hub of course but to a much smaller degree.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI_canuck
    You're completely wrong... 29ers DO have a larger contact patch... although not wider for the same given width tire as a 26er, it IS longer. This is simply physics.
    contact patch == load / tire pressure. Wheel size doesn't factor in. The patch is longer but narrower. Actual shape depends on the tire. I would love to see you computations of "dynamic pressure" since you can't get even the basics right.

    Quote Originally Posted by MI_canuck
    As for gyro effect (ie. rotational moment of inertia) - it's higher in a 29er wheel assembly, even for a same weight wheels set as a 26er. 1) most of the weight in a wheelset is concentrated at the outer circumference - ie. the TIRE 2) that tire mass is at a radius 11.5% further from center on a 29er than on a 26er.
    No it's not. The radius is greater but the wheel spins slower. They cancel each other out ALWAYS. A 29er is simply heavier under most conditions. Again, you lack a grasp of the basics.

    Quote Originally Posted by MI_canuck
    Before completely dismissing 29er as a fad or way to make money, maybe the nay-sayers should actually RIDE a 29er, and by RIDE, I mean more than just a parking lot spin... Take a demo bike out to your favourite trail and THEN come back and let us know what you think.
    And maybe you should take a math course. Who dismissed 29ers as a fad? Who doesn't ride a 29er? Certainly not me.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupboy
    And that, folks, is why high performance cars all ride on 14" wheels.
    I suspect you have no idea why high performance cars use larger wheels. If you do, you've sure suggested you don't here.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet
    Good point about the pressure. Yea, I agree that the 29er tire will need to compress more to reach the same pressure as a 26er tire so it should have an overall larger patch.
    But, it has been proven by a few of us here, that the angular momentum of a bicycle wheel is basically (and by that I mean using a mathematical approximation to a high degree of accuracy) dependent on the outer mass of its rim and tire. This is because a larger radius wheel rolls slower and also accelerates slower due to its lower angular velocity at any given speed. Wheel radius has no consequence - only rim/tire mass along with the spokes, nipples and hub of course but to a much smaller degree.
    So, yes or no? It seems like folks that are so rooted in absolutes quickly dismiss actual differences based on their personal opinion of what may or may not be material? Do they accept the concept of being sorta pregnant too?

    Simple question: Whatever the differences are, are they more regularly in favor of 26ers or 29ers?
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Are you a mind reader? Just curious how you knew what Chris/Lance are thinking, probably even before they'd thunk it.



    Your sweeping negative generalizations seem to be getting sweepinger, and negativer. Off the meds?

    MC

    I dig that my opinion brings out so much vitriol from the "great" Mike Curiak. Re-read your rant...who is really coming off meds?
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupboy
    So, yes or no? It seems like folks that are so rooted in absolutes quickly dismiss actual differences based on their personal opinion of what may or may not be material? Do they accept the concept of being sorta pregnant too?

    Simple question: Whatever the differences are, are they more regularly in favor of 26ers or 29ers?
    It seems some folks are so rooted in the subjective that they quickly dismiss physical facts in favor of imaginary explanations that support their personal opinions. Pregnancy is something that can be physically measured. Objectivists have no problem getting that right. Is someone pregnant because you want them to be?

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj
    I suspect you have no idea why high performance cars use larger wheels. If you do, you've sure suggested you don't here.
    I knew you'd come out to play Nancy. Is mommy around to make sure you're going to be OK this time or should I just remand myself to the mods?

    You're quick to shoot holes into every possible assertion as to benefits of a 29er. Why do you waste your time on such a worthless platform, let alone regurgitating the science of others in the absence of personal experience on this forum? Are you trying to save all us lemmings from wasting their hard earned mula on sub-optimal solutions? I don't need another mom, your's was very accommodating.

    So, Einstein, enlighten us all as to why you *claim* you ride a 29er. Do you simply ride it out of an inordinate sense of self-loathing? Are you a cutter Nancy? Do one of two things - please stop or be a professional and hit a femoral artery already.
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie
    You can disagree all you like, If all else is equal, same bike and rider weight it makes no difference what size tire you have. The total area of the contact patch or footprint will be the same. The shape will change but the area will be the same if it's a 24" or a 29" wheel.

    The same principle applies to a car. if you measure the total area of all four contact patches and you know the tire pressure, you can calculate the weight of the car.

    Ronnie.

    sadly my friend, you neglect one important factor... VOLUME... it is NOT the same for a give width 26er and 29er...

    go brush up on your ideal gas law and then come back to argue...

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  43. #43
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    Not to be all Debbie Downer, but doesn't this forum already have 3 dozen or so threads with this argument or variants of it?

    Maybe I'm the only one, but I'd rather keep this to the Canfield Bros bike, or similar.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupboy
    I knew you'd come out to play Nancy. Is mommy around to make sure you're going to be OK this time or should I just remand myself to the mods?

    You're quick to shoot holes into every possible assertion as to benefits of a 29er. Why do you waste your time on such a worthless platform, let alone regurgitating the science of others in the absence of personal experience on this forum? Are you trying to save all us lemmings from wasting their hard earned mula on sub-optimal solutions? I don't need another mom, your's was accommodating.

    So, Einstein, enlighten us all as to why you *claim* you ride a 29er. Do you simply ride it out of an inordinate sense of self-loathing? Are you a cutter Nancy? Do one of two things - please stop or be a professional and hit a femoral artery already.
    Typical of you, Soupboy. Personal insults, no facts. You are the face of MTBR.

    I don't shoot holes in every possible assertion, only the wrong ones.

    Absence of personal experience? Who are you to judge?

    Who's more likely to choose sub-optimal solutions? You, with your lack of knowledge?

    I claim to ride a 29er because I ride one. Just because I like or prefer a 29er doesn't mean I have to accept lies about its benefits.

    Still working on that answer regarding car tires? Regardless, it will only prove you are ignorant or disingenuous. Nothing could be less relevant to bicycles.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI_canuck
    sadly my friend, you neglect one important factor... VOLUME... it is NOT the same for a give width 26er and 29er...

    go brush up on your ideal gas law and then come back to argue...
    I would like to see you apply that law and demonstrate how it is significant in the context of a tire with huge knobs instead of a smooth surface. How much does a typical MTB tire change in volume when a load is placed on it?

    It could be just as easily argued that the extra volume would require an increase in base pressure to avoid bottoming the tire. Generally, riders use pressures as low as they can while avoiding bottoming the tire on the rim. If what you say is important, the 29ers would require more pressure. I've never heard anyone say that.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet
    But, it has been proven by a few of us here, that the angular momentum of a bicycle wheel is basically (and by that I mean using a mathematical approximation to a high degree of accuracy) dependent on the outer mass of its rim and tire. This is because a larger radius wheel rolls slower and also accelerates slower due to its lower angular velocity at any given speed.
    No dissagreeing there - for a given bike speed, the 29er wheel is spinning more slowly. Slower to accelerate, but also slower to decelerate.

    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet
    Wheel radius has no consequence - only rim/tire mass along with the spokes, nipples and hub of course but to a much smaller degree.
    Sure it does... if 95% of the mass of a wheel/tire assy was located at the hub rather than at the rim, it would accelerate and decelerate very differently (ie more quickly) than a wheel/tire assy of the same total mass, but 95% of that mass is at the rim vs the hub. What I termed as moment of inertia is a static attribute of any object. Location of mass vs the centroidal axis (in the case of the balanced wheel - that axis coincides with the wheel's axle centerline)

    It's why on a 29er, yeah it's harder to pedal from a standstill and get moving, but on the same token, you need few pedals strokes to get to the top of that next hill vs the 26er going the same speed at the bottom of the hill.

    In any case... certainly not saying anything here that hasn't been covered many times before as evasive points out... I doubt this is what the OP had in mind starting the thread... I'm just happy to see 29er make a tiny inroad into DH...

    Quote Originally Posted by evasive
    Not to be all Debbie Downer, but doesn't this forum already have 3 dozen or so threads with this argument or variants of it?

    Maybe I'm the only one, but I'd rather keep this to the Canfield Bros bike, or similar.

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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj
    I would like to see you apply that law and demonstrate how it is significant in the context of a tire with huge knobs instead of a smooth surface. How much does a typical MTB tire change in volume when a load is placed on it?

    It could be just as easily argued that the extra volume would require an increase in base pressure to avoid bottoming the tire. Generally, riders use pressures as low as they can while avoiding bottoming the tire on the rim. If what you say is important, the 29ers would require more pressure. I've never heard anyone say that.
    Dude you're arguing specifics much in the way that one would try to count the grains of salt in the ocean... I'm not here to prove myself to you or anyone... You keep asking everyone to prove their points with actual numbers and data... if it bugs you so much, go ahead and run the tests...

    Extra volume needs less 'base' pressure as you put it... Case in point... Roadies... teeny volumes... SUPER high pressures.... 2.35 MTB tire - quite low in comparison.

    You're throwing in stuff like rim bottoming to muddy the waters of the basis of the argument.... The unwritten assumption is that you're already running pressures proven to not bottom out. It's a given. I don't see what you're trying to prove... But keep at it... I've covered all I needed

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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI_canuck
    It's why on a 29er, yeah it's harder to pedal from a standstill and get moving, but on the same token, you need few pedals strokes to get to the top of that next hill vs the 26er going the same speed at the bottom of the hill.
    No, it's not. A 29er will be harder to pedal strictly based on how much heavier its wheels are. If they are not heavier, there will be no difference.

    Not only does a 29er spin slower for a given speed, it's change in spin speed for a given acceleration will be less as well. That's what you seem to be missing.

    For each gram of weight and each mile and hour, a 29er wheel will have the exact same angular momentum as a 26er. It will not be harder to accelerate. Yes, the mass moment of inertia is higher. That doesn't matter.

    29ers will be heavier due to their size and their need for greater strength, but that doesn't really apply directly to DH. DH tends to overbuild anyway. As a poster said long ago, DHers can get the same stability effect from heavier wheels and they already do.

    Quote Originally Posted by MI_canuck
    Dude you're arguing specifics much in the way that one would try to count the grains of salt in the ocean... I'm not here to prove myself to you or anyone... You keep asking everyone to prove their points with actual numbers and data... if it bugs you so much, go ahead and run the tests...
    Listen to you! You're the one telling people they are wrong because of PV = nRT. You already know that patch size is M / P so you're being argumentative over tiny discrepancies in P because of volume. If you think 29ers offer a real advantage in patch size due to the ideal gas law, I'd like to see an example. Otherwise, you are bluffing.

    Quote Originally Posted by MI_canuck
    Extra volume needs less 'base' pressure as you put it... Case in point... Roadies... teeny volumes... SUPER high pressures.... 2.35 MTB tire - quite low in comparison.
    You totally missed the point and you are completely backward here. The extra volume reduces the progressiveness of the spring and therefore requires MORE pressure. The smaller tire needs more pressure because it can tolerate less compression in the sidewall, not because it has less volume.

    Quote Originally Posted by MI_canuck
    The unwritten assumption is that you're already running pressures proven to not bottom out. It's a given.
    Except that if you are correct and the ideal gas law really matters, that assumption isn't a given.

  49. #49
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    Yep, some folks in the industry are experimenting with 29ers for DH. Pretty cool, I think it might catch on. It's also cool to see two Utah companies teaming up on that Canfield to make it happen in this case.(Canfield & Edge are about 20 miles from each other).

    Craigsj's technically correct on all counts. He's done his homework.

    Inertia is squared with linear increases in radius, it's also squared with linear decreases in angular velocity seen with a bigger wheel for a given speed.

    He's right on the air spring correlation as well.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    I think what throws folks off is that it would seem that you can run less psi with the 29er (comparable tire size) due to the extra volume...therefore generating a bigger patch. But, you are correct...all being equal...same size patch.
    Yep, plus the angle of attack factor--hitting things at a shallower angle usually means fewer flats, all else equal.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    I dig that my opinion brings out so much vitriol from the "great" Mike Curiak. Re-read your rant...who is really coming off meds?
    Stroke yourself anyway you please, dude. Zero vitriol and nothing great herein--just calling BS on your constant negative sniping.

    Back on topic:

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  53. #53
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    I spent about 30 minutes talking with Chris about the bike last night at our local dirt jump spot. He had it with him and was getting used to the feel, having no problems whatsoever moving the bike in the air and hitting big lines. Our results may vary.

    It's quite the interesting frankenbuild, he actually welded another BB shell beneath and behind the shell of the original frame to get close to the correct geo. His feeling was that the BB was still too high, and to take full advantage of the format for DH a 13 - 13.5" bb height would be better. He wasn't super excited about the tires, feeling that they aren't burly enough yet. I asked him how many people would buy an 1800g tire and he laughed. But yeah, he felt the Dissents didn't offer a strong enough sidewall and the tread pattern was merely "okay."

    You can't see in the photos that he is running a 6" rotor on the front and a 7' rotor on the rear. When asked about this interesting setup he explained he didn't need heat dissipation on the front since he rarely uses the brake, and the weight savings was too attractive to pass up. Heh.

    He didn't have much to offer in the way of Mass x Force x Radius = Science, but he did say that it was the fastest way for him to get down the hill. He also said twice that 29 is the future as he dropped into the main line. Future of frame sales? Maybe. But Chris has been experimenting with 29 for a long time and his opinion about whether they work for big bikes counts for a heck of a lot more than the speculation of others.

    JMH

  54. #54
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    I have been talking to Chris thru Email. He thinks 29ers has a DH future as long as there are better tires.

  55. #55
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    This thread reminds me of how adamant 26" riders were in saying 29ers were just going to be a short-lived fad back in the early 2000's.

    I suspect if the folks riding 29r DH rigs place well, the interest will grow and much crow will be eaten.

    Give it another 3-4 years to settle out with new 29" DH specific equipment & gear.
    "Someone must have put alcohol in my beer last night." ~ Mr. Richard Baty, Esq.


  56. #56
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    WOW the 29er movement has a new champion, be weary you little wheeled neah sayers

    As to "Peety" loving his TallBoy, I wonder why? Wouldn't by chance happen to have anything to do with the $$$ he gets from SC? just maybe huh Anyone who listens to or beleive what a paid pro rider says about a bike from his paying sponsor is a little more than nieve.

    Quote Originally Posted by MI_canuck
    You're completely wrong too... Go ahead and email Jeff at Intense and ask him how the CRC/Intense WC boys like the 2951... go ahead... I dare you. Also our beloved Peaty himself tweeted a day or two ago about riding a Tallboy and raving about it's performance on flats and DH (as much DH as a Tallboy could handle I'd imagine). He commented about being leary about climbing, but that has nothing to do with the sport of DH now does it...

    If you knew anything, you'd know that other than the misconceptions and apprehension of 29ers in general by the hardcore freeriders and DHers, the BIGGEST hurdle for 29er DHers is TIRE SELECTION... Let's face it... some DHers will simply NOT give up their Minion DHFs, DHRs, or High Rollers, or whatever brand/model they are used to (Michelin, Schwalbe, etc.). Right now, I believe the WTB Dissent 2.5 is about the only choice for a true DH type tire in a 29er size currently.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj
    It seems some folks are so rooted in the subjective that they quickly dismiss physical facts in favor of imaginary explanations that support their personal opinions. Pregnancy is something that can be physically measured. Objectivists have no problem getting that right. Is someone pregnant because you want them to be?
    while it kills me to say this because you come off as such a d@uchebag, this is very elegantly put.
    if you (virtually) shook people's hands rather than (virtually) punching them in the face as you jump into threads, i think you'd see much more productive dialogue. a quick scan of the threads you post in reveals that your approach always leads to the same retarded result, however "right" you may be. rather than use the "this is mtbr" cop out, you might tweak your tactics. assuming, that is, that you are interested in dialogue other than what you have ignited in every thread you post in. take it from someone with highly unpopular though soundly factually based opinions that did exactly what i'm recommending.
    not that you care.
    carry on...
    i'm a rand fan too, btw.
    Last edited by meltingfeather; 06-04-2010 at 08:27 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Stibe'
    Dude the Canfeild looks sweet! Glad to see 29ers getting on the DH Course!
    Devin and I are going to Race the PBJ This Weekend Angle Fire!!! Hope to see more 29er at the event.

    Here is a sneek Photo of our sick Rigs!


    Liven the Dream!

    J-Rock
    OMFG!!! Those bikes are SICK!!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  59. #59
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    i feel this empty feeling reading this thread.. i mean...oh..nevermind, that's just my wallet.
    k n o ll y r o c k s

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Stibe'
    Dude the Canfeild looks sweet! Glad to see 29ers getting on the DH Course!
    Devin and I are going to Race the PBJ This Weekend Angle Fire!!! Hope to see more 29er at the event.

    Here is a sneek Photo of our sick Rigs!



    Liven the Dream!

    J-Rock
    Talked to you briefly on Sat while you were washing your bike.

    How did you all do on Sun?

    I cant believe it was so freekin' HOT up there.. whew..

    Last edited by MTBNate; 06-07-2010 at 06:06 PM.
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  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    Clueless. All those things are already accomplished using larger, heavier DH tires without the drawbacks of wagon wheels. Canfiield like so many small builders before them is looking to the 29'er market to prop up their sales. Most every paid DH pro has ridden a 29'er of some sort and when asked about racing DH on one they just laugh.

    There's room for everyone Rivet. I'd imagine it would be relevant to suggest that some riders like the 29 format and some don't funny that isn't it.

    I'm not sure that generalizing really is a very clever way to go about formulating an argument.

    Not sure how old you are (yes it does relate to this argument) If you are old enough you might remember all the mtbr arguments about how full suspension will never take on in xc or general riding as they sapped to much rider energy, and were to heavy. There were lots of people generalizing their argument by saying that because they know 5 people that have ridden dually's and didn't like em, that they would never find a place in the everyday riders arsenal. Wow, weren't those people wrong.


    Could it be that some DHer's will like 29ers, and some won't????

    Is that so surprising???

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by refreshinglygood
    There's room for everyone Rivet. I'd imagine it would be relevant to suggest that some riders like the 29 format and some don't funny that isn't it.

    I'm not sure that generalizing really is a very clever way to go about formulating an argument.

    Not sure how old you are (yes it does relate to this argument) If you are old enough you might remember all the mtbr arguments about how full suspension will never take on in xc or general riding as they sapped to much rider energy, and were to heavy. There were lots of people generalizing their argument by saying that because they know 5 people that have ridden dually's and didn't like em, that they would never find a place in the everyday riders arsenal. Wow, weren't those people wrong.


    Could it be that some DHer's will like 29ers, and some won't????

    Is that so surprising???
    As obvious as your post is, maybe some people need to read the obvious. I know DHers who like a 24" rear wheel. It depends on so many things like the rider and terrain/trail. I think it is great to see 29er DH rigs being created...there is a need. I'de also like to see 650b DH rigs, tires, etc. That to me would be way cool.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by sikocycles
    Mike have any of those camo rims left?
    Yes. Hit me with an e if you want a set.

  64. #64
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    The 26 honks are like so many folks.....

    If you don't understand something......anything, gather data and study it....then gather more and then and only then begin to arrive closer to an informed opinion and/or a conclusion.

    I hate conclusions arrived at via 1 second of thought and back by years of emotion.....Its o.k. not to understand or to have an explanation for something - relax.....THINK.....ask alot of questions, don't be afraid that your first intuition is wrong.
    Grand claims demand grand proof.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather
    OMFG!!! Those bikes are SICK!!!!!

    omg i second that! shiaaattttt that is bad as hell!

  66. #66
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    PhotoJohn shots of Chris C and Brad P. at I Street last week.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Why no 29ers in DH?  Just kidding...-_04c1795.jpg  

    Why no 29ers in DH?  Just kidding...-_dsc1168.jpg  


  67. #67
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    Is that a dorado or white bros fork?

  68. #68
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    White Bros. One leg is black and one leg is silver

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by D.F.L.
    So, you're at least open to the idea...
    good one!

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    PhotoJohn shots of Chris C and Brad P. at I Street last week.
    Zing!



    And...

    <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/0TUAJX4W4Nrnowj5yCQW-6kSPGazL-W3ZE7WSvxtBaw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Z3iU73Uw_T8/S_kpET8rJII/AAAAAAAAWq4/leN8GcaOIaw/s800/IMG_5908.jpg" /></a>

    Cheers,

    MC

  71. #71
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    cool! thats all i gotta say!

  72. #72
    JMH
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    Quote Originally Posted by sikocycles
    White Bros. One leg is black and one leg is silver
    The funny thing about that fork is that it's not even modified for 29... if it somehow got full travel, the tire would contact the downtube. I don't know what is wrong internally, but it seems to be working.

  73. #73
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    New Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    PhotoJohn shots of Chris C and Brad P. at I Street last week.
    Just started a new thread:

    Chuck Your 29er >>

    It's got a few more photos and I'm gonna ask Chris to post some more info on the bike.
    Back of the camera, back of the pack.

  74. #74
    JMH
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    I created another thread for this bike to share the bling, but this thread seems an appropriate place to repeat... SOOOO excited!

    Really excited about the stem/bar playing nicely with the fork. I wanted the lowest bars possible and with the stem at 55mm the bars nestle perfectly in front of the stanchions. Bars are only about 1" higher than my RIP 9.

    Head angle is right about 67 so it's not DH slack but hopefully will prove to be a bit more versatile on flatter runs. Weight is right around 37lbs but will go up when the chainguide is installed.

    Stoked to get it finished and get a few runs in before Whistler at the end of the month!

    JMH

    Frame - Niner WFO 9, Medium
    Fork - Manitou Dorado 29, 175mm
    Stem - Twenty6 F1 direct mount
    Handlebar - Niner Flat Top 9, 750mm
    Grips - Gravity Lockon
    Brakes - Avid Elixir CR, 203/185mm
    Shifters - SRAM X9 rear
    Saddle - WTB Silverado
    Seatpost - Thompson Elite
    Seatpost Collar - Twenty6
    Rear Shock - Cane Creek Double Barrel
    Pedals - Twenty6 Prerunner
    Crankset - Gravity Light
    Chainring - (shown) FSA 34T (ordered) e*thirteen Guidering 33T
    Cassette - Shimano DuraAce 12-27T
    Chain - SRAM Hollow Pin
    Rear Derailleur - SRAM XO Short Cage
    Tires - WTB Kodiak
    Hubs - Hope Pro2 150mm rear, 20mm TA front
    Rims - Halo Freedom
    Spokes - DT Supercomp
    Nipples - DT Alloy

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/91694861@N00/4693509157/" title="WFO_2 by hukee, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4009/4693509157_3d6210b13b_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="WFO_2" /></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/91694861@N00/4694145524/" title="WFO_8 by hukee, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4027/4694145524_b19066b05b_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="WFO_8" /></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/91694861@N00/4694144960/" title="WFO_3 by hukee, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4072/4694144960_af459acf3a_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="WFO_3" /></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/91694861@N00/4693509379/" title="WFO_4 by hukee, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4053/4693509379_87caa46a18_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="WFO_4" /></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/91694861@N00/4694145204/" title="WFO_5 by hukee, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4039/4694145204_5727576697_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="WFO_5" /></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/91694861@N00/4693509689/" title="WFO_6 by hukee, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1301/4693509689_b0fe1a23cc_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="WFO_6" /></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/91694861@N00/4694144668/" title="WFO_1 by hukee, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4003/4694144668_e8a754dc8e_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="WFO_1" /></a>

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