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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny7 View Post
    For me, any pride or "mine is better" comes from hoping the 29er isn't the next 26. Where good wheelsets and tires are phased out and hard to find. Other than that, I could care less what people ride.
    As long as xc is the most popular type of mountain biking, 29ers will never be phased out. And given that xc is by far the most popular type of mountain biking and has always been, things here are not going to change and 29ers will continue to dominate the market.

    I am not sure why people can't understand the fact that xc is by far the most popular discipline in mountain biking and because if this and the fact that many other disciplines are now using 29ers (enduro and DH), 29ers are the most popular wheel size.

    Pretty basic logic that is not addressed by anyone claiming 27.5 is more popular than 29ers. For those that want 27.5" to be the most popular, how do you reconcile this?
    Get out of the gutter and onto the mountain top.

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  2. #102
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    XC is a type of racing, not a "riding style".

    Define XC riding?

    I agree that 29 is not going away, and is increasing in popularity, but there will be a need for smaller wheels and bikes because not everyone is tall enough to fit.

    I recently tried my first 29, an Evil Wreckoning, and was impressed but not blown away by the big wheels. I felt it could easily be the one bike for where I live, and I look forward to trying out some more 29s.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  3. #103
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    Why does it matter which is "most popular"?

    Though we do have that list that all mountain bikers must follow to be one.

    And one of those is to pick a wheel size and be a snob about it.

    Honestly though, I wonder if sometimes having a pissing contest is more important that being out riding . Can't lie Ive done it a time or 2 till I realized Im wasting precious riding time.

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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    XC is a type of racing, not a "riding style".
    Straight from Wikipedia:
    "Mountain biking can generally be broken down into multiple categories: cross country, trail riding, all mountain (also referred to as "Enduro"), downhill, freeride and dirt jumping. However, the majority of mountain biking falls into the categories of Trail and Cross Country riding styles."

    Also, most every manufacturer has a catergory for XC bikes, just like they have one for DH, trail, enduro and DJ. No special disclaimer for the XC catergory bikes that says they are for racing only. XC is most certainly a type of riding style, but that is easily enough seen by using google. Give it a try.
    Get out of the gutter and onto the mountain top.

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  5. #105
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    Here's how I see it from an outsiders point of view:

    The bike market was getting a bit stale. Bike prices too high so folks were sticking with their old bike longer rather than upgrading every year or two. The 27.5 give the manufacturer something to sell folks. Riding a 'too small of a wheel' bike is a fantastic marketing gimmick. Brilliant actually.

    They attempted the same thing a decade ago with the 29" wheel, but 29er's weren't always the best choice for shorter riders.

    Do 27.5 and 29 inch bikes offer some improvement for some riders? Absolutely.
    Is that the primary reason bike shops are stocked to the brim with 27.5 bikes? Absolutely not. They are hoping that consumers will feel they are missing out on something with their 'outdated' 26" wheeled bikes.

  6. #106
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    Well, if we want to say whatever people are buying is what is great, then here:

    BMX up 32%

    Ebikes up 90%.

    Which one you buying next?

    So FWIW, 29 and 650B are dying a slow death as we speak, so I don't know who's losing less, but you guys go ahead and hash it out some more.

    src:BPSA: Dollar sales to retailers up in June | Bicycle Retailer and Industry News

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zowie View Post
    Which one you buying next?
    Why, a 29er e-bike, of course.
    =s
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  8. #108
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    Neither are actually dying at all. Theres a lot of info behind whats going on that's missing.

    First is that people arent buying as many new bikes every year as theres been no real new outstanding tech released for 2017 to the masses. Wheel sizes unchanged, drivetrains unchanged. Its a trend thats a rotating cycling, few years of big growth then slows down because nothing major to get people to replace their current bikes.

    Road is the biggest indicator of this as that market is grossly stagnant. Though the number of people riding road bikes is bigger than all others combined.

    Bmx growth is because popularity of cycling is coming back. Especially in BMX. More pump tracks and so are are being added every day with much less red tape and funding needed than trails both dirt and paved. Takes a vacant lot, a buddy with a skid loader, done. Cities and towns are all for it, costs them squat and looks great that they are doing something for the youth.

    Ebike growth is because now they exist more readily and look like something "cool". Not to mention more affordable now. Camping a couple weeks ago in a popular cycling destination for the area there was a lot of e-hybrid type bikes. Especially among the newly retired crowd.

    The up and down trend of bicycle sales will continue. Always has. Fat bikes becoming big made for a massive growth in that market. It has settled now with little in the way of anything new appearing. Plus bike caused a boost last year as well.

    Market flooded with fat bikes, those that like them have them, rest that jumped on the bandwagon and realized its not for them went other routes.

    You cant look at one years report to understand the market and how things are going to trend.

    Bmx and ebikes will never replace mountain bikes. Their just happens to be growth there right now, more than other sectors. It happens.

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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by singletrackmack View Post
    Straight from Wikipedia:
    "Mountain biking can generally be broken down into multiple categories: cross country, trail riding, all mountain (also referred to as "Enduro"), downhill, freeride and dirt jumping. However, the majority of mountain biking falls into the categories of Trail and Cross Country riding styles."

    Also, most every manufacturer has a catergory for XC bikes, just like they have one for DH, trail, enduro and DJ. No special disclaimer for the XC catergory bikes that says they are for racing only. XC is most certainly a type of riding style, but that is easily enough seen by using google. Give it a try.
    Wikipedia, LOL. What is the definition of XC or trail? Serious question.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  10. #110
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    If you take a look at many GMBN videos where they compare squish to HT, they don't seem much different. Most people (myself definitely included) cannot tell the difference between 650b and 29. Once you gain enough experience, where you can throw a hardtail through a nasty rock garden and not eat sheet, you begin to develop appreciation for a certain application that fits your style better.

    In my opinion, it is a preference and each has its own advantages, but it boils down to skill and a type of riding you do.

    I'm in Chicago and I love my HT because frankly, FS would be a waste and actually quite annoying on flat trails.

  11. #111
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    People are going to see what they want to see.

    Living in So Cal...the types of bikes ridden are all over the map. Going to 5 bike shops in the same town...you're going to see all kinds of different inventory. The shop I used to work at stocked more road bikes than mountain bikes. You go to the shop 5 mins away...their inventory will be completely different. Locally I do see more 29r's than 27.5...but going to bike parks and shuttle runs...the majority are 27.5's (regardless of rider height). I don't see fat bikes at all. I still don't see many plus bikes.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Wikipedia, LOL. What is the definition of XC or trail? Serious question.
    What is wrong with Wikipedia? But if you don't like wiki, try any other link that comes up on google and you will get the same answer as wiki. And the easiest definition of XC is everything that DJ, DH and endure isn't. It is the original mtb riding style.
    Get out of the gutter and onto the mountain top.

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  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by singletrackmack View Post
    What is wrong with Wikipedia? But if you don't like wiki, try any other link that comes up on google and you will get the same answer as wiki. And the easiest definition of XC is everything that DJ, DH and endure isn't. It is the original mtb riding style.
    According to Wikipedia, one of my friends was a founding member of 98 Degrees before creative differences led him to leave the band and pursue a career in law enforcement.

  14. #114
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    What's the difference between XC and trail? Trail and all mountain? Still no definition of XC, because there isn't one outside of racing.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    What's the difference between XC and trail?
    If you keep your wheels glued to the ground, you're riding cross country. Pop the bike off every tiny lip you can can find, you're on a trail ;0)

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    If you keep your wheels glued to the ground, you're riding cross country. Pop the bike off every tiny lip you can can find, you're on a trail ;0)
    I pretty much agree with this. XC = JRA or racing (other than enduro).
    Newbies, roadies & weight weenies enjoy XC riding.
    Mountain bikers enjoy trail & AM.

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  17. #117
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    There is a big difference between XC and AM.

    And pig is right. XC has no real rough trails involved. And anything on XC can be rolled. Air time is at rider discretion.

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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    There is a big difference between XC and AM.

    And pig is right. XC has no real rough trails involved. And anything on XC can be rolled. Air time is at rider discretion.

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    Yes, but when it comes to non-pro riders, many still prefer to use a HT just because it's more versatile and lighter.


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  19. #119
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    My rides often include trails that are included in the local stage of the BC Bike Race, a XC event. Classic XC race bike with steep angles are extremely rare here with most people on 140-160mm FS, with droppers being standard equipment. I don't believe in definitions or race, but instead rate bikes on a sliding scale.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  20. #120
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    In the last 2 days I've met 2 friends of mine who have just switched from 29 to 650b Evil Insurgents. They both said it was a tough call, but they chose the Insurgent over the similar 29 Wreckoning because they prefer the handling.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    In the last 2 days I've met 2 friends of mine who have just switched from 29 to 650b Evil Insurgents. They both said it was a tough call, but they chose the Insurgent over the similar 29 Wreckoning because they prefer the handling.
    Could you please let us know what they have in comon(tings like weight, height, experience, shape level, type of area they ride, etc...) Thanks

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    In the last 2 days I've met 2 friends of mine who have just switched from 29 to 650b Evil Insurgents. They both said it was a tough call, but they chose the Insurgent over the similar 29 Wreckoning because they prefer the handling.
    I think this is an extreme example. The insurgent is a smaller bike. It's purpose is similar to the wreckoning however all reviews have pointed to the wreckoning handling sluggishly until up to speed. I wonder if your friends had chosen a more conservative geometry frame if they would've jumped ship.

  23. #123
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    They demoed a lot of bikes, we have a some great lbs in the area. I tried a Wreck and didn't find it sluggish at all, and I made a point of trying it on a tight & twisty climb.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  24. #124
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    i have a '17 bronson cc xtr build. 150/160 27.5 bike and a '17 fuel ex 9.9 xx1 130/140 29er

    if i had to choose just one it would be the bronson. it doesn't roll as well as the 29er but it is easier to handle and a faster high speed bike.

    each has its own strengths but for PNW trails a 27.5 is just more maneuverable

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by singletrackmack View Post
    As long as xc is the most popular type of mountain biking, 29ers will never be phased out. And given that xc is by far the most popular type of mountain biking and has always been, things here are not going to change and 29ers will continue to dominate the market.

    I am not sure why people can't understand the fact that xc is by far the most popular discipline in mountain biking and because if this and the fact that many other disciplines are now using 29ers (enduro and DH), 29ers are the most popular wheel size.

    Pretty basic logic that is not addressed by anyone claiming 27.5 is more popular than 29ers. For those that want 27.5" to be the most popular, how do you reconcile this?
    most popular where? in oregon xc bikes really aren't that common. 130-160 bikes are what you commonly find and 27.5 around 2-1 over 29

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by racebum View Post
    most popular where? in oregon xc bikes really aren't that common. 130-160 bikes are what you commonly find and 27.5 around 2-1 over 29
    Just because people have a 150mm bike, doesn't mean they aren't riding XC. A guy I know recently sold his '17 Fuel EX to buy a Remedy. To ride the trails that several local XC races are held on.

    It's pretty hard for a 29er to work with a 150mm fork and make a bike that fits people. That's a mighty tall front end for an all purpose bike, unless you're pretty tall. Thus, more people are on 27.5 in the longer travel segment.

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  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Just because people have a 150mm bike, doesn't mean they aren't riding XC. A guy I know recently sold his '17 Fuel EX to buy a Remedy. To ride the trails that several local XC races are held on.

    It's pretty hard for a 29er to work with a 150mm fork and make a bike that fits people. That's a mighty tall front end for an all purpose bike, unless you're pretty tall. Thus, more people are on 27.5 in the longer travel segment.

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    now that i totally agree with. xc trails are commonplace even if they aren't buying xc bikes to ride them

    i think the '17+ if you can get it light enough is a great aggressive XC bike and it's what replaced my asr-c. i only took a .6lb weight hit moving there too. hard to say no to a '17 9.9 for $3900 though factory demo, full warranty. it just happened to be 18.5. was my lucky moment of the year, asr paid for most of it

    my org comment was aimed at traditional 100mm xc and HT bikes. those seem to be a shrinking share of the market

  28. #128
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    For the last year Iíve been riding a Yeti SB6 and I love it. Time, money and lust started burning a hole in my pocket so I decided to build up a new TB3 earlier this year. I did both the 29er and 27.5+ wheels on it so I could cover the all the bases.

    This was my first time purchasing a 29er, I went from 26 to 27.5 on my last bike. Itís been an interesting ride with them, pun intended. The 29er wheels are fast and when Iím cranking mild terrain I love them, when it gets slow and technical rocky I find them much more cumbersome but very doable and when itís technical climbing it just becomes a chore. I find the wheels get hung up much easier in the aforementioned tech than my 27.5ís or 26ís did and it takes considerably more effort to make these little legs of mine keep the wheels turning. Iíve made a few changes to see if it helped like going to a 30T ring instead of my normal 32T and pretty much the same result with the obvious easier gears just got easier. With all that being said I put up some of my best times ever this year on my local trails riding the 29er.

    Iím actually really interested in how the 29er wheels would feel in a plow bike setup. Iíve been eyeballing frames like the Switchblade or Yeti 5.5 to see if itís a short travel bike / geometry issue Iím dealing with. I know itís not 100% the wheels as I ride with a bunch of people who ride 29erís on the same trails, who all rip and love them. So I guess I think I find its nothing more than preference of the rider, I believe any good rider can acclimate to any bike theyíre on. Its just the smaller preferences or handling that differentiate if they want 27.5 or 29.

    From a shop standpoint I think more of them feel safer selling 27.5 especially to newer riders because its perceived as more versatile. Very few people who have been riding for years walk into a shop and need bike picking help. Experienced riders mostly go to look at and/or demo a specific bikes.

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    There is a big difference between XC and AM.

    And pig is right. XC has no real rough trails involved. And anything on XC can be rolled. Air time is at rider discretion.

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    What? I ride trail, 75% of my trails are rough, chunky and rocky. Does that mean I don't ride XC? Everyone has their own definitions. For their own trails and riding style. Boston, MA area rider. There is lift served. So downhill or a beefy type bike is usually used. There is trail riding where anybody will show up with anything that rolls. And there is racing, mostly on lighter bikes with less travel. Other talk is just semantics. 29ers dominate the trail riding these days. In my neck of the woods.

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    What? I ride trail, 75% of my trails are rough, chunky and rocky. Does that mean I don't ride XC? Everyone has their own definitions. For their own trails and riding style. Boston, MA area rider. There is lift served. So downhill or a beefy type bike is usually used. There is trail riding where anybody will show up with anything that rolls. And there is racing, mostly on lighter bikes with less travel. Other talk is just semantics. 29ers dominate the trail riding these days. In my neck of the woods.
    In my opinion, the vast majority of trails are "XC".

    If I can take an XC bike down it at a decent clip and not die, that's XC. Blue Ridge/Pisgah? Yep. Moab? Yessir. NorCal? Totally, brah. Front Range? Yeah.

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  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    In my opinion, the vast majority of trails are "XC".

    If I can take an XC bike down it at a decent clip and not die, that's XC. Blue Ridge/Pisgah? Yep. Moab? Yessir. NorCal? Totally, brah. Front Range? Yeah.

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    ride your asrc down northstar

    i would seriously enjoy watching the go pro video. i bet you could do it, no idea how much speed you could carry

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by racebum View Post
    ride your asrc down northstar

    i would seriously enjoy watching the go pro video. i bet you could do it, no idea how much speed you could carry
    Point being that the vast majority of the trails in that area (Tahoe) are XC trails.

    Purpose built, lift-accessed, single use directional trails aren't quite the same as MUTs, are they?

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  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    In my opinion, the vast majority of trails are "XC".

    If I can take an XC bike down it at a decent clip and not die, that's XC. Blue Ridge/Pisgah? Yep. Moab? Yessir. NorCal? Totally, brah. Front Range? Yeah.

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    My trail bike is a 29er with 6" of travel and beefy tires. Works well on most everything.

  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Point being that the vast majority of the trails in that area (Tahoe) are XC trails.

    Purpose built, lift-accessed, single use directional trails aren't quite the same as MUTs, are they?

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    oh for sure.

    still would be fun to try just to see how it goes

  35. #135
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    Sorry, just noticed this.

    Had a 2015 Pivot Les bottom bracket shell crack. They replaced under warranty and gave me the choice to upgrade to the 27.5+ boost frame for $50, so I chose that option. It will also run 29" wheels.

    Bottom bracket height on new frames is generally lower these days. When running 27.5+, it got even lower. Way too many pedal strikes for my taste. Also, on rolling terrain the 27.5 loses ground to the 29" wheels.

    I will say I'm spoiled as my main ride is a custom Ti 29er SS, rigid. The Pivot seldom gets ridden. I like the traction of the + tires, but the lower overall height is too negative for me.
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  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by azjonboy View Post
    Sorry, just noticed this.

    Had a 2015 Pivot Les bottom bracket shell crack. They replaced under warranty and gave me the choice to upgrade to the 27.5+ boost frame for $50, so I chose that option. It will also run 29" wheels.

    Bottom bracket height on new frames is generally lower these days. When running 27.5+, it got even lower. Way too many pedal strikes for my taste. Also, on rolling terrain the 27.5 loses ground to the 29" wheels.

    I will say I'm spoiled as my main ride is a custom Ti 29er SS, rigid. The Pivot seldom gets ridden. I like the traction of the + tires, but the lower overall height is too negative for me.
    Longer fork? And maybe try your 29er wheels too.

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