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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    Consider that Anthem X 29er has a frame weight of just over 5 lbs, rivaling carbon frames, and you got their top level component spec for that alloy frame. What did it come in at, 4k?
    $2800 actually. Still feels like an anchor compared to my Seven 622 SLX. I'm really a roadie just looking to return to the woods for cold weather riding.

    Tim

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by socalpete View Post
    Newbie here , where does Giant stand in the hierarchy of all bike manufactures?
    Supposedly the largest, but there may be some companies in China that produce more bikes for internal consumption. I have no clue where Giant stands in production of mountain bikes. Giant manufactures bikes for other brands. Giant is part of the big three: Giant, Specialized, Trek. Cannondale may fit in their somewhere. Think GM, Ford, Toyota. Giant is big.

  3. #53
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    My $.10...

    29er fit has been hard to come by and I started in 2005 on a KM. I am not the tallest guy in the world (5-7) and I tend to throw my bike around. 29er's went against everything I originally learned how to do on a bike.

    Present-day I am still learning how to get around the deficiencies of a 29er, but at least I found a few models that fit well. The simple fact is that 26er parts are starting to erode and 29er parts are expanding all the time. This in itself will force the use of 29ers in the future and make 26er's the bicycle's of small adults like my 5' tall wife.

    So even though I don't see a lot of personal gain out of the 29er product progression, I know it is the standard wheelset size going into the future. So we all will have to adapt and accept what is taking place in the marketplace.

    Now...

    1. Is 26er going to disappear? NO... between the 30+yrs of old bikes that need parts and short riders, 26 is going to be around for a long time. If anything, "cruiser 24" will probably disappear.

    2. 650b future? YES... that wheel will be around for a while because it promotes better fit geo for short riders. Most 26er frames can tightly fit 650b. And I have seen an up-tick in 650b bikes at regional races, so they are being used for a reason. When I was in Germany 6mo ago, I saw even more 650b.


    In the end, wheel-size zealots will have their discussions and soap-box bullsh!t blogs. But the market responds to customer wants, NOT needs. Frankly I am suprised that a "29er" forum even exists present-day. It IS the bicycle now... it isn't a niche product.
    - The only thing that keeps me on a bike is happiness.

  4. #54
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    Giant is out of their mind.

    I think 27.5 has a really strong chance to stick around and overtake 26" wheels but it's not an easy sell.

    29ers just work so well for the IMBA trail sanitation standards.

  5. #55
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    I agree here with most. It does make sense (somewhat) for them to begin to phase out the 26 inch bikes going forward but to even comment that 29ers are going away is ludicruis to me. Maybe even wishful thinking on their part.

    I have ridden all three and 26 and 650b are pretty close IMO. 29 is still a pretty different ride and on certain trails still seems like it would be the preferable choice.

    I think all three sizes could coexist but I just don't see 26inch wheels around as new bikes for much longer as a whole.

    In my local craiglist ads used parts (fork's, wheels, etc.) you can get half of what you can get for 29inch parts. Unscientific I know but worth noting..

  6. #56
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    Won't?

    Now that is really going out on a limb. Saying anything "won't" happen is way to optimistic.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdb View Post
    Supposedly the largest, but there may be some companies in China that produce more bikes for internal consumption. I have no clue where Giant stands in production of mountain bikes. Giant manufactures bikes for other brands. Giant is part of the big three: Giant, Specialized, Trek. Cannondale may fit in their somewhere. Think GM, Ford, Toyota. Giant is big.
    Giant owns factories and production, it's not necessarily the bikes that end up with the name "giant" in the bike shop.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  8. #58
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    "There are literally masters degree courses in college for it now when 20 years ago marketing classes were just a small part of a business degree."

    Huh? In 1977 I got an MBA in Marketing. It is certainly nothing new. Where have you been?

    As for all the comments others have made on Giant being behind the curve, not knowing what they are doing etc. I'm sure the largest bike company in the world (the one that probably makes the bikes for so many other smaller brands) has some idea of what they are doing.

    I never bought into 29" I don't hate it or love it or really give a rats arsh about wheel size. I just enjoy riding and can see 27.5 as the way to go. Not the best thing to say on the 29" forum but a fact none-the-less. The truth is I was saying today that I would probably buy a 29" FS for my next bike but a 27.5" would probably work just as well for my type of riding.

    What someone else said about a person entering a bike shop, finding three wheel choices and taking the middle of the road approach makes sense too.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev Bubba View Post
    What someone else said about a person entering a bike shop, finding three wheel choices and taking the middle of the road approach makes sense too.
    With that logic, wait for the 32" wheel to make an appearance, and then 29er might be the middle of the road. Okay, I'm just JKing about that...

    Realistically, in the end, I think people will be buying whatever they see others buying, others that they believe to share something in common with. If they are unhappy with that, then they might seek out the better choice that addresses their concerns. 650b is a solution that might be for those that want the performance of bigger wheels, but don't find the 29er suiting them.

    I still think 29er offers more capability. I want to see 29er DH in the pro ranks, and I don't mean something like Fontana/Southridge nor Sea Otter. I've been spoiled by high end 29ers, so none of the 650b I've tried have impressed me yet, though the only one I really tried on real trails that I can compare to my 29er is the Rocky Mtn Altitude 790 MSL. I think I would rather have a quiver, a 26 playbike and a 29er racy, yet balanced all-day bike, rather than go for a single in-betweener.
    Last edited by Varaxis; 07-30-2013 at 03:01 PM.

  10. #60
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    Never having ridden a 27.5", I can't comment on them. I have ridden a number of high end 29" and would say that if I was buying a bike today, I would go in that direction but I can not realistically justify the entry price. A new bike is going to cost in the area of $4k and I already have two 26" bikes I am very happy with. It is going to be interesting to see what is out there next summer when the 2015's start showing up because that is more in the ball park for a purchase.

    My local east coast terrain is more tight and technical than anything else so a responsive longer travel bike fits my needs. Just the thing a 27.5" is supposed to be best suited for. As I said, next year will be very interesting.

    PS: I'm now officially old as crap and my back says "don't be stupid, ride FS or stick to your road bike."

  11. #61
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    I致e got to give Giant credit for rocking the boat and making the wheel wars a lot more intriguing. I mean hell, Specialized just skipped right past 27.5 on nothing less than a 155mm travel Enduro 29. At this point, I知 actually interested to see how this all plays out. I popped up a big bowl of popcorn for this one.

    I知 not buying everything Giant is saying by a long shot, but I知 not 100% dismissing it either. 27.5 is a compromise just like any other wheel size, but maybe it痴 the best compromise for more riders than was previously thought.

    I知 open to whatever wheel size works best, but I really don稚 think I値l ever be in the market for a smaller wheel. I知 not the norm though - I知 62, and weigh 230 geared. I looked at Giant痴 charts in Pinkbike. IMO, at my weight, a few pounds just doesn稚 matter that much, even when I apply a multiplier of 3 (uneducated guess) to the rotational weight in the wheels. And I don稚 really care about the numerical value for the angle of attack. What I do care about is the difference in lost forward momentum when riding over obstacles of various sizes, and they didn稚 include a table for that. Also, I believe that the greater the angle between the point of contact with the obstacle and the CG of the bike + rider, the greater the loss in momentum. So as a tall dude, I知 gonna keep rocking my big wheels.

  12. #62
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    I see it in pretty simple terms.

    There are two mainstream wheel sizes to choose from, big ( 29 ) and small ( 26 ). In two years time this will be exactly the same choice except small will now include 650b. The extent to which 26 will suffer from 650b market dominance will depend on public gullibility and the shear weight of hype which is currently looking unstoppable. As it's been already said, 650b is NOT an inbetween size and feels and behaves pretty much like a 26 compared to the huge difference in feel to a 29. Giant's cynical business positioning and attempt to influence the mass market towards one side of a clear wheel size choice is as cringeworthy as it's attempts to change steerer and headset standards. Just ignore them, they are followers not innovators.

    There is so much more to wheel size than this nonsense in any case. Surly's new 2.7 x 26 tyres for instance. interesting times...

  13. #63
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    When I upgraded my 26er bike up to 2.3" wide tires, I ended up with tires the same outside diameter as a 650b with 2.1" wide. IMHO 650b is just not enough of a difference from 26er. I am also guessing that 26er's will disappear in favor of 650b.

    The technology and demand for 29er's is huge and still growing. They will not be going away any day soon. My 700c hybrid rigid bike was an awesome bike. Oh and by the way, 700c is almost the same size as a 29er, just a bit narrower. I learned to mtb with that bike. The roll-over capability and momentum of that bike was awesome compared to my current 26er FS bike. My next bike will most likely be a HT 29er.

  14. #64
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    Re: What's happening with the 29er market!? So confused

    Blundar:
    "When I upgraded my 26er bike up to 2.3" wide tires, I ended up with tires the same outside diameter as a 650b with 2.1" wide."

    Can you please specify, which 26" 2.3 and 27.5" 2.1 you are talking about?

  15. #65
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    Wheel size is primarily consumer-driven, then reinforced my industry marketing which drives demand even more. For one person 29ers are better, for another the old 26" works fine, and for still another the 27.5" just "feels right". It's all personal preference, and has little to do with wheel size. Some bikes, regardless of wheel size, just fit better than others. Consumers often mistake this feeling as a certain wheel size being superior than another. The fact is, riding your bike more has far more to do with how you feel on the bike and how well you ride than wheel size does. You can even get more out of choosing the appropriate tire tread pattern, tire pressure, or suspension tune for the terrain you're riding.

    My point is that bike companies have even SAID that wheel size doesn't matter much. They just don't want to miss out on sales, regardless of how strange consumers' reasoning is. So as long as there is sufficient demand for 26/27.5/29/36" wheels, there will be bikes and parts made for people to buy.
    "Got everything you need?"

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by blundar View Post
    My 700c hybrid rigid bike was an awesome bike. Oh and by the way, 700c is almost the same size as a 29er, just a bit narrower. I learned to mtb with that bike. The roll-over capability and momentum of that bike was awesome compared to my current 26er FS bike. My next bike will most likely be a HT 29er.
    A 700C rim has exactly the same BSD(bead seat diameter) as a 29" mountain bike rim, namely 622mm.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  17. #67
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    giant is desparate. they have no ideas and they'd rather try and compete with the little companies who are taking the first leap in 27.5" than lose their arses with their lame 29" models v. S and Trek. In a couple years Santa Cruz will be buying Giant.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev Bubba View Post

    Huh? In 1977 I got an MBA in Marketing. It is certainly nothing new. Where have you been?
    Under a rock evidently. I have only recently encountered people with marketing degrees. I am sure that has nothing to do with how many years i was a blue color grunt and paid zero attention to co worker/business associate/client/competitor education background. :P I just assumed SEO, paperclick, social media, bla bla bla was the birth of modern marketing, not the evolution of it.

    Learn somthin everyday. Seems obvious now that you point it out. I recon ill sit in the corner with muh dunce cap fer a spell.

    /bow

  19. #69
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    Meh, marketing ploy... and it might work for them. Reduce SKUs by having only 1 bike size (thus being able to sell them cheaper or make more money on them or likely a combo of both) and become known as the 650B specialists. Kinda like Niner but with 650B.

    Either way, the 29er ain't taking a dirt nap but I wouldn't be buying stock in 26 inch bikes any time soon. You couldn't find a high end 26 inch XC bike in AZ if you wanted one.

  20. #70
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    There's this company... they built their reputation and success on only selling 29ers... their name, it escapes me at the moment... But yeah, if Giant wanted to go all in with 650B, it likely would be an idea that would work out well for them. Its not like only selling 29ers is hurting that one other company.

    Edit: weird, someone else made a similar post in the same minute.
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  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev Bubba View Post

    My local east coast terrain is more tight and technical than anything else
    Like worse than this!? Jeeze that's crazy!

    What's happening with the 29er market!? So confused-sd550img_1953.jpg

    Funny thing on this ride, I was on my 7/8" highline, but I think there were at least 2 29ers, one of which being a lenz lunchbox, and that one seemed to do better than my dinky 26" wheels in this technical terrain. There are plenty of tight moves here where you have to take a certain line down a chute or make a certain corner, so there's a lot more to this than just rolling straight down. A lot of these rides got me thinking that the 29er guys are riding the same terrain as us on much heavier bigger-travel bikes, they didn't exactly make the kind of 29er at that time that I wanted, so I waited...
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    There's this company... they built their reputation and success on only selling 29ers... their name, it escapes me at the moment... But yeah, if Giant wanted to go all in with 650B, it likely would be an idea that would work out well for them. Its not like only selling 29ers is hurting that one other company.

    Edit: weird, someone else made a similar post in the same minute.
    Well, one has to separate "Giant" the company that produces bikes with the name "Giant" in local bike shops from the company "Giant" that makes bikes for many other manufacturers that no doubt end up in all kinds of shops and likely online. Even if "Giant" only made 27.5" bikes under their name, they'd still be making lots of 29ers and 26ers for other companies, in addition to everything else they make. They are not really separate of course, but one saying they will only make 27.5 doesn't really affect the other...
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  23. #73
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    Re: What's happening with the 29er market!? So confused

    Are the 29 in guys in the same boat as the 26" guys awhile ago? 650b has won xc world cups, cross races, enduro races, and had been wildly popular before the big companies started going in. Had every one been sleeping on the 650b forum? I worked at the internet arm of a bike shop and for the past six years 650 tires were always selling like hot cakes. I love my 29r...but I am jumping ship when a studded 650 tire comes along. The size rocks.
    I am immune to your disdain.

  24. #74
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    Wildly popular? I have yet to see one on the trail (admittedly, I live in SLC where we're pretty darn backwards).

    Walk into 10 random bikes shops in your area and count how many 650b items you can purchase. Let me know what you find. My guess is not many.

    It's a great wheel size and so are all the others and none of them are going anywhere. Kudos to the Giant marketing folks for getting a boatload of free publicity by making silly comments!

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  25. #75
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    I would say that they are wildly popular in sense that we sold tons of rims and tires for a wheel size that really didn't exist. For awhile, it was our hottest selling tire size. I understand where you are coming from, not seeing them on the trails or in shops. I can walk into our shop(and others) and see them and i have seen a bunch in the trails already here in Maine.

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