What next? Looking to build up a sub 25 lb 29er...
Had a 2011 Santa Cruz Tallboy carbon built up with XO. That my have been the best overall bike I ever owned but moved up to the TBLT for more travel. It's built up with XT which I definitely like better than XO. I also totally appreciate the loger, plusher travel. However, it comes in at 28.5 lbs with Enve AM's and Schwalbe Nobby Nics (no dropper).
I've decided I miss the lower weight of the TBc but also still like the longer travel. If I didn't care about the longer travel, I'd just get the TB 2 but it still comes with a 100mm rear end. Right now, I think the Niner RIP9 RDO with XX1 (but Shimano brakes) tops my list but I'm open to other options...others I'm considering are the Pivot 429c, new Turner Czar and TB2 but I think they all ahave 100mm of rear wheel travel.
Any other obvious options I should be looking at that have 120mm+ of rear wheel travel?
Anybody willing to post up their sub 25 lb 29er builds with 120mm+ of travel? I know Muzzanic has a RIP9 that is down there pretty low.
Yes my Rip9 RDO is at 26.6 lb
With Lge frame
Pike 140mm fork
I9 Torch Trail Carbon wheels with Nobby Nic's
XX brakes with 180mm rotors
Reverb seat post.
Niner 780mm RDO bar
Ibis says their Ripley can be built to 23 pounds with an XX1 group.
Originally Posted by k2rider1964
Maybe I missed something, you like the way it rides, so why not just put those lighter parts on it?
I seriously doubt the frames weight is what is keeping you from making it lighter. You really think you're going to find a 120mm frame that weighs less than 5 lbs?
As TwoTone has said, It isn't the frame weight that is going to get you down there.
I wouldn't mind betting it is the bigger travel bike feel that is making the bike feel much slower than maybe what it is.
One of the things I really like about the Rip9 RDO is it still feels XC bike fast, even though it is a plush bike to ride & works so well in the ruff.
Many years ago I had a Jet9 Alloy & a Rip9 Alloy & used them both at a 12 hour event & the Jet9 felt so much faster than the Rip9 & yet the Lap times were the same on both bikes.
Weight does change how a bike feels but how a bike is setup will change it more.
As you go up in travel it is hard to get the bikes to feel as fast as the XC bike of the same type.
I'm guessing that is 1 of the reasons that with the Rip9 RDO they only made it 125mm rear travel & not go longer like the LT.
I'm sure if they make a WFO carbon it will not feel anywhere near as alive as the Rip9 RDO on the easy trails.
One of the big things I see is people buying a longer travel for the 1 or 2 small area's on a ride & have the wrong bike for them for the rest of the ride.
My 2 c
You have a very hard choice on your hands & you need to take time to ride some more bikes & get your head around what type/ Travel bike you need or want.
There will always be a trade off somewhere, You need a clear understanding of what they are & how that will affect you.
I have had a lot of bikes over the last 5 years & they just keep getting better, The thing that I get the big buzz out of is now I have the Rip9 RDO I have a bike that is just so good & such a huge range of trails both up & down.
I put my vote in for the Rip9 RDO Because I know how awesome they are.
However You have the TBLT & I don't think you have got the best out of it yet, I'm not a fan of VPP I didn't like my Tallboy, But I also know that to get another carbon bike down around 25 or 26 lb you are not going to be able to build it like the TBLT is built up now.
To build up another bike to replace the TBLT you would need to buy some very good bits, If you can afford it you should buy some of them now & try them on your bike 1st & just maybe you can get it to were you want it.
If that doesn't work for you, Then you are on the wrong bike for you.
Last edited by muzzanic; 06-21-2013 at 03:49 AM.
This, when I started looking, I rode a TBLT, but after debating it with myself I had to admit if I bought an LT it would be for 5-10% of my riding, so I went with a TB with 120mm fork.
Originally Posted by muzzanic
Biggest thing for you is demos. You say you liked both your Tallboys. You may find you don't like the way another bike rides.
I'd love to find a demo of a Niner and a DW link bike.
I throw this out there, have you considered a new Solo?
Devinci Atlas? Owner of shop I frequent with Niner as main brand built up a pretty nice RDO RIP. Then brought in an Atlas frame to build up. Carbon main/alu rr. I think it's 125mm with a 140 travel fork. Came in at ~26#'s. He likes it more than the RIP. Favorite bike besides his SS now.
Originally Posted by k2rider1964
Wait,who did he tell you that?....
Two quick ways to get what you want without buying a new bike:
#1 new shock tune for TBc.
#2 Drop weight on TBLTc, maybe by going with 1x and faster XCish tires.
No clue why that TB LTc with carbon wheels and no dropper weighs so much. Should be able to get it down to 27, which I think is a sweet spot for a big trail bike. Try checking out a lighter fork (ex. Formula ThirtyFive, ~1850g). I assume that you have a Fox 34, which is one of the heaviest forks out there (2000+g, but it's the stiffest and most controlled that I've ridden), and XT brakes, which are also heavy (325g without rotor). Try Avid XO Trail, which I've seen for $175 a side (with 160 rotor, 325g or 125g less per side than XT) on sale. I'm a big fan of the Maxxis Ikon tires, which are 600g for 2.2 EXO, at least for the rear, which should give you quite a speed up with "good enough" traction. There's even a 2.35 model coming out, which should be good for the front, as long as you don't ride really loose stuff. I hope you don't have heavy flat pedals that weigh over 400g--I was guilty of riding 595g Sunline V1s, but now have 325g Deity Compounds.
Reasons why I said the above: I recognize that you can change so much on your bike. It's designed to be versatile, allowing you to unbolt things and bolt new things in; it's not like they made things so integrated and model specific that it is the best thing possible for the bike and that you shouldn't change parts out. Also, what you consider is good enough, and are happy with, possibly could be so close to you that you're overlooking them and that they actually are the source of some grief (ex. weight). What people consider good enough gets outdated all the time--if not, then the latest and greatest wouldn't entice people. You're probably aware that you can sort of get the TBLTc's suspension feel with a pro shock tune, but just wanted to get you to think about what's keeping you from doing it.
Questions for the OP that would help fine tune the answer: what's your fitness and skill level at right now? Are you coming off a break of little biking due to weather, career, or injury? Would consider yourself more fit when you were rocking the TBc as your main bike? Do you think you need some refreshers to be able to push limits as hard as you did before? Are you currently riding lines and trails that are a bit more mellow than whatever "hardcore" and "gnarly" stuff you rid before? Are you looking to ride with friends who might be trying to up their ante, while you are still trying to catch up? I ask because, typically, such a state makes you feel like you need a boost, and a new bike that's fast, light, and responsive sounds like it's just what you need. Well, naturally such a bike *is* what I consider best, but you'd be in the poor house if you got a new bike after every break. Assuming this is one of the problems, and you feel a need to shortcut/fast-track the catch-up, is just simply riding the bike you got more, and maintaining it, such a undesirable solution? People out there might be willing to sacrifice many things, or even kill, to get either of your bikes. There's only a handful of bikes that some people would consider are better, and would the difference be that significant? You might like going fast, even on the uphills, and maybe were used to being at the front of the pack, but doing so now might require a greater toll on your body and you feel the weight more... Summed up, are you sure it's the bike, and not you, that needs to change? I worry that if you upgrade and regain your fitness and skill, you might lose the fun/challenge in things and might actually downgrade to a rigid singlespeed or hardtail, maybe even buying a whole new fancy carbon or Ti one.
As a last resort, get a road bike.
All this talk about bike weight, its all the same going down the trail, its cheaper and easier for you to loose 5 lbs then your bike or deal with the weight and get stronger legs. I completely understand buying a nice bike, I know I spent a ton on mine but until last week for a WTF why not I never weighed it as I didn't really care. My FS weighs 33 lbs and you're whining abut 28 christ man. I am not any slower on it then my 26 lbs HT. I say its 28 lbs deal with it, ride it and get stronger, getting a lighter bike by 2 lbs is not going to make that much of a difference, to me at this point its the rider not the machine. Hey if you want to dump a ton of cash feel free just cheaper to ride it and get stronger. I dont want to sound harsh but man the **** up and ride it, seriously you have great bikes, I see kids in the trials on 50 lbs monsters having a blast, do they wish they had a 4500 carbon dream bike sure but thats not stopping them.
I do not use indoor spinners in the winter or any kind of stationary bikes, can't stand that **** so I know that heavy feeling, I go through it every spring. Even on my lightest bike it feels slugish and heavy, I know its not the bike it's me. 4 weeks later ZOOM!ZOOM!
Atlas is on my short list, but it's 110mm of travel I believe... though everyone says it feels like more.
Originally Posted by JMac47
Originally Posted by d365
Yeah my bad was looking at stats from their site and misread the seat dropper was 125. Looks like they're somewheres right around same as the TB running a longer fork but with a little more travel in back. He didnt build it up super uber light like your TB as its as its also a shop demo. Just enuff flash to get a perspective buyer to add some more bling to their build price! Probably wont get them down to your TBc weight. Around midway between it and your LT and a tad lighter than the RDO of Muzz.
Last edited by JMac47; 06-21-2013 at 03:21 PM.
Wait,who did he tell you that?....
Wow not sure you were looking for all that help varax and f29 posters were offering!! First one seems like you needed a shrink(he may be one at that.....) and f29 comes off as a HS football coach(he may be one too....) both trying to get your head back in the game! Lol
Wait,who did he tell you that?....
I'm assuming you have the alloy Tallboy LT? Because the LTc frame is pretty light as is.
Yeti SB95c and Intense Spider Comp come in at 6 lbs for size large. Ibis Ripley 5.4 lbs for size large. Niner Rip9 RDO 6.7 lbs for size large.
I can't remember my exact build list for my LTc but it was in the 25 lb range set up as a 1x10 with Enve wheels and no dropper.
Best advice I've read in quite awhile. A new rear shock is a ton cheaper than a new frame.
Originally Posted by Varaxis
I transformed my 07 Ventana El Rey that had been hanging on the wall collecting dust. I added a 2013 RS Monarch, 2013 Lefty and a Maxxis Ikon rear tire I had lying around and the damn thing climbs and descends as well as anything I've ridden recently. A friend rode it today and thought it the best handling bike he'd been on.
With the original RP23 it came equipped with, the bike was a wallowing pig on climbs, or pogostick on descents if I boosted the air pressure to tune out the squat on climbs. I believe the dirty secret here is, most suspension systems are working pretty well these days, and big improvements in performance can be found in the the latest generation of rear shocks.
I'm not sure where your getting 6lbs for the Intense since the medium comes in at 5.5lbs and I just cant see a large weighing a 1/2 lb more. Weight aside, after spending time on the Ripley I was a bit disappointed with how it climbed compared to the Spider. As a former Tallboy carbon owner I was way more impressed with the Spider than the Ripley. I would say it would be a tossup between the two when it came to descending but I felt the Spider was better going uphill.
Originally Posted by Colin+M
Last edited by reydin; 06-24-2013 at 07:44 AM.
This may be a total waste of time but I can't help but think that you might amount to something someday.
Nice bike. I did a demo ride on one and thought it was a great frame.
Originally Posted by k2rider1964
Sub 25? Hmmmm.....it will cost you and you'll end up with a weight weenie XC bike if that's what you want.
I've got my alloy RIP partially weight weenied out enough to keep it in check (Light Bicyle carbom AM rims; 1 x 9 drivetrain; XC tires; weight weenie pedals, etc....) and it is 27.17 pounds. Lighter cranks/BB, going XX1, lighter saddle, lighter grips, lighter tires, new lighter fork - all would combine to shave it down more. Put all of that on a carbon longer travel frame and it "might" get to 25 or possible sub 25 for my XL size frame needs. Not sure the 2 pounds and cost involved to get it there (figure about $2-4K extra to shed those 2 pounds - and I'm not talking frame, just the components) would really alter my riding experience that much for a longer travel all around XC/Trail bike. It would be cheaper for me to drop 2 more pounds off my mid-section (I'm trying).
Not sub 25, but with a carbon frame and a few lighter parts - it would be getting dang close.
Post up your spreadsheet that lists all of your components and frame with weights. Then we can offer suggestions of where to trim. The Nics have got to go to cut weight. What do your wheels and fork weigh? Saddle? Bars? Grips? Post? Pedals? That's where you cut weight - in each of those components. Tires, saddle, wheels, fork, bars, grips, post, pedals. Cha-ching...
In the end, you will have turned your bike into a weight weenie XC bike with longer travel. Is that what you want? Could be, I don't know. Just asking. That's kind of what I want since I don't live where I need more than that. I like the cushion of the longer travel, but don't need the stout for the Midwest. I throw on the aggressive tires (Nic 2.35's) when I head to the mountains (or during a drought when everything gets all loose).
My carbon road bike (64cm frame) is sub 20...
Generally speaking, physics would disagree with many of the statements you just made. You may be satisfied with riding a heavy bike, being slow, and being fat. Some of us are not.
Originally Posted by fahza29er
It was 5.95 lbs with axle and ceramic BB to be exact. I preferred my Spider going downhill over the Ripley as it felt more stable at speed, at least for me. I did feel that the Spider pedaled better than the LTc I had.
I can see the Spider being better with tech climbing.
I've got my Intense Spider 29 Comp down to 25.75 lbs
All XT Brakes, Shifters, Drivetrain (2x10)
Specialized Roval Carbon Rims on DT hubs with 2.25 Racing Ralph Schwalbe's
EC90 bars and seatpost
Crank bros TI Candy pedals
Rock Shox SID RCT3
Its super light on the front end but plenty stiff and 5" travel...
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