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  1. #1
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    What has 16.2" chain stays, titanium, and can make me smile for 90min?



    90min smile because that is how long the trail is
    shout out to the canfield nimble 9, my previous bike. This new bike's geometry is based off the n9. 412mm chain stays, 68.5 degree headtube angle
    This year I have gone thru 4 frames. After riding the canfield, which gets much praise here, I knew what this geometry was what i needed. I've always wanted titanium. This is my first, and i can see why it is so coveted.

    close up of plate chain stays to clear the crank/tire
    also had the builder bridge the two stays for extra stiffness



    drive side



    plenty of tire clearance



    142x12 drop outs



    tapered head tube



    close up of welds



    specs:
    xacd built frame
    120mm manitou tower pro 15mm thru axle
    cane creek 110 headset
    hadley hubs & stans rims
    2.25 nobby nic front
    2.25 racing ralph rear
    syntace carbon 740mm 12 degree bars
    syntace megaforce 2 70mm stem
    aka cranks, mrp bling ring
    xpedo pedals
    x9 shifter and derailleur
    sram PG-1070 11-36 cassette
    eriksen sweetpost
    selle italia Max SLR gel flow
    xt m785 brakes

    25 lbs exactly as pictured
    Last edited by Dan GSR; 12-09-2012 at 01:50 PM.

  2. #2
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    if you have never tried a short chain stay 29er, you are really missing out

  3. #3
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    Very nice!

    Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

  4. #4
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    So sexy! I'm a new convert to steel. Buying my first steel frame in January. One day ill have a ti
    There's something about those long grueling climbs that gets my front end all stiff... And I'm not talking about lockout...

  5. #5
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    What's considered short for a 29er chainstay?
    There's something about those long grueling climbs that gets my front end all stiff... And I'm not talking about lockout...

  6. #6
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    anything 16.8" or less
    yelli screamy
    nimble 9
    banshee paradox
    kona honzo

    to name a few

  7. #7
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    Real nice. Looking at the clearance between the tire and the yoke, I wonder, was it necessary to do a yoke? Looks like some slightly ovalized tubes would still clear. 'Specially if running a single ring?

    Not meaning to criticize your pony, thing is bad ass. I've been wanting a shorter stayed 29er since before I actually took the splash and built a 29er up (this past summer, just a Stumpy HT frame with XT and XTR parts).

    Can you describe what it does for your riding personally? I miss having the finessing control over the rear wheel that I had when riding 26". I still do, but it just takes that little bit more effort on the 29er and that's the one gripe with the bigger wheels that I have stuck in my craw. But I wonder if that has more to do with the length of the ass end than it does with the diameter of the wheels...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jochribs View Post
    Real nice. Looking at the clearance between the tire and the yoke, I wonder, was it necessary to do a yoke? Looks like some slightly ovalized tubes would still clear. 'Specially if running a single ring?

    Not meaning to criticize your pony, thing is bad ass. I've been wanting a shorter stayed 29er since before I actually took the splash and built a 29er up (this past summer, just a Stumpy HT frame with XT and XTR parts).

    Can you describe what it does for your riding personally? I miss having the finessing control over the rear wheel that I had when riding 26". I still do, but it just takes that little bit more effort on the 29er and that's the one gripe with the bigger wheels that I have stuck in my craw. But I wonder if that has more to do with the length of the ass end than it does with the diameter of the wheels...
    the builder said to get the stays this short, i would have to run the plates
    wasn't going to argue with him
    my guess is if you squish the tubing too much it will be weakened

    as for the handling, it sounds like you are perfect candidate for a short CS bike
    i will try my best to explain it
    the frame i had before the nimble 9 was a niner mcr
    very nice frame, VERY different geometry
    the mcr has 17.5 chain stays, 70.5 degree headtube angle
    i loved the bike, but it didn't give me confidence
    after moving to the n9 i saw the light
    the mcr turns by turning the bars
    the n9 turns by moving your hips, you can actually feel it pivot off the rear wheel
    also since the n9 has a 69 degree headtube angle it gave me much better high speed stability. bikes with long stays and slack headtubes have long wheel bases, which will make it handle poorly But since this has a short chain stay, the wheel base is nearly identical to a "normal" geometry bike

    i think the only reason more manufacturers are not building these designs is cost
    it is more expensive to create a frame with an offset or curved seat tube

  9. #9
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    That's lovely.
    xacd built frame
    So Chinese then - any home grown design input?

  10. #10
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    i went thru 7 drawings to get what i wanted
    everything was custom to my specs

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan GSR View Post
    the builder said to get the stays this short, i would have to run the plates
    wasn't going to argue with him
    my guess is if you squish the tubing too much it will be weakened

    as for the handling, it sounds like you are perfect candidate for a short CS bike
    i will try my best to explain it
    the frame i had before the nimble 9 was a niner mcr
    very nice frame, VERY different geometry
    the mcr has 17.5 chain stays, 70.5 degree headtube angle
    i loved the bike, but it didn't give me confidence
    after moving to the n9 i saw the light
    the mcr turns by turning the bars
    the n9 turns by moving your hips, you can actually feel it pivot off the rear wheel
    also since the n9 has a 69 degree headtube angle it gave me much better high speed stability. bikes with long stays and slack headtubes have long wheel bases, which will make it handle poorly But since this has a short chain stay, the wheel base is nearly identical to a "normal" geometry bike

    i think the only reason more manufacturers are not building these designs is cost
    it is more expensive to create a frame with an offset or curved seat tube
    I hear ya and respect that! They're the builder for a reason. I think I could really benefit from a 29er like this. Thanks a ton for explaining the concept and handling characteristics to me. I need to ride one for sure. Maybe at some point I'll do an SS or a 1x10.

    Maybe that's the reason why more companies aren't doing it. It just isn't a sell to everyone kind of thing. Because of the shorter stays it can only run SS or 1X since the front derailleur would whack the tire and result in blues singing. Most people just don't want that. They want something they can granny up the hill, and making frames that won't even humor that won't sell well. Just my guess. I'm probably wrong though. For instance though, I have XTR trail cranks 38x26 on my custom built Stumpy HT. The 38 is fine, the 26 is too low. I need a 27 or 28 for the inner. Doing a search today for that very sort of application found nothing but people complaining about the 26 being to high, not too low.

  12. #12
    Keep on Rockin...
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    Very nice.

    How many teeth on the front ring?

    Doing away with the FD prevents a lot of hassle as I'm sure you know.

    I'm pretty sure if I ever build up another geared 29er HT, it will have a single up front. It's been years since I ran triples and on a HT I don't need the granny that much.

  13. #13
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    Dan, the trails and woods your in remind me of my home of NJ. Grew up on LBI and on the mainland, in Manahawkin. Pine Barrens all the way!

  14. #14
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    Love it! But it's super flickable.
    konahonzo

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurospek View Post
    Love it! Bet it's super flickable.
    yup, backing it in on some turns

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post

    How many teeth on the front ring?
    28t bling ring
    for my terrain and fitness, it is perfect for me
    i rarely spin out the 11t in the rear on singletrack

  17. #17
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    sick!
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  18. #18
    No Clue Crew
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    Beautiful, functional rig. I like.

  19. #19
    I'm just messing with you
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    Nice bike

    Everything you said about the short CS slack HT is true. They're marketed as AM bikes, but are great woods bikes. My N9 rails single track as good as my WTB, but adds the roll over capability of the big wheels. It makes my Salsa and the Spot it replaced feel like school buses. Climbing is (almost) fun again, you just stand up and go for it.
    Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised

  20. #20
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    yeah i have no idea why they call it AM, i would call my riding XC. it works FANTASTICALLY for that

  21. #21
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    How's the rest of the ride? Does the backend eat up chatter or is it super stiff ? How does the front end handle the 120mm fork? How's the bottom bracket stiffness?

    Sweet looking rig btw.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by kikoraa View Post
    What's considered short for a 29er chainstay?
    By:Stickel. All of Steve's bikes have ultra-short stays AND room for a front dereallieur.
    "Bikes have wheels." -Noam Chomsky

  23. #23
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    looks nearly perfect. don't think i would've gone with manitou and sram, respectively, but that's largely a matter of personal preference. geometry looks perfect. nice work; enjoy!
    "Bikes have wheels." -Noam Chomsky

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rideon View Post
    How's the rest of the ride? Does the backend eat up chatter or is it super stiff ? How does the front end handle the 120mm fork? How's the bottom bracket stiffness?
    it does everything well, as far as i can tell
    seems to soak up bumps better than my chromoly nimble 9, but doesn't feel flexy
    first time running a 120mm on a 29er. I had a 100mm reba on my n9. i need a stiffer spring for the manitou. even with it being a little soft having the extra travel is nice.

  25. #25
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    Very nice rig! What'd it run ya?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by 44gnats View Post
    looks nearly perfect. don't think i would've gone with manitou and sram, respectively, but that's largely a matter of personal preference. geometry looks perfect. nice work; enjoy!
    Have you ridden a Tower Pro? What didn't you like about it?

    OP-that's an awesome build. Thanks for sharing.

  27. #27
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    the only thing i don't like about the manitou is it is a little heavy, but im not racing. and this was priced right

  28. #28
    Dinner for wolves
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    Holy ****!

    Good thing I was wearing my diaper...
    Responds to gravity

  29. #29
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    Sick!!! More pics please!

    This makes waiting for my custom ti Generic all the more difficult!

    Can you talk about the handling difference of going from 100 to 120mm fork? This is the one thing I can't decide on for my custom.
    Something with wheels and brakes.

    92Fifty' Race Team

  30. #30
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    Cool bike! We're you on the vortex at one point? United grey gti, flik wheels? I always liked that car if so.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by dickt3030 View Post
    Sick!!! More pics please!


    Quote Originally Posted by dickt3030 View Post

    Can you talk about the handling difference of going from 100 to 120mm fork? This is the one thing I can't decide on for my custom.
    well i went from a 115mm head tube with external cup headset, to a 100mm headtube with a zero stack headset. so my bars should be about the same height. the bike handles pretty much the same as my nimble 9. just more travel.

    Quote Originally Posted by zippinveedub View Post
    We're you on the vortex at one point?
    yup still have my mkV


  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by dickt3030 View Post

    This makes waiting for my custom ti Generic all the more difficult!

    Can you talk about the handling difference of going from 100 to 120mm fork? This is the one thing I can't decide on for my custom.
    did you order "the ultimate" ? first time i'm seeing it. looks dope
    you can buy a fork that is convertible, but keep in mind this will change the geometry
    i bought my fork first and built the geometry around it

  33. #33
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    Yep, getting the Ultimate! He claims 16.5" CS and 44.5" wheelbase. Do you know what the wheelbase is on yours?

    I've already ordered a White Brothers Loop, which will be convertible from 100 to 120. He builds the Ultimate with a 44mm headtube. Just wondering if I can go with an internal headset as you have on yours. Looks super clean!
    Something with wheels and brakes.

    92Fifty' Race Team

  34. #34
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    I actually talked with XCAD about recreating the Honzo in Ti. Similar price, similar yoke, non thru axle rear hub (which would be nice), and a notched seat tube rather than a bent one.

    The Generic Ultimate is a sick bike, but your paying for the USA Built, very unique yoke, and nice lines.

  35. #35
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    My wheelbase is 42.9"

  36. #36
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    Very Nice! Congrats on an awesome ride.

  37. #37
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    i like how generic solved the issue with seat post angle. First I've seen someone do that

  38. #38
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    Very interesting dan. I've often thought I'd like to replicate the yelli in ti with a few minor changes. But I think the weight would end up being really close if it was built for similar stiffness.

    Whats the bare frame weight ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan GSR View Post
    the mcr turns by turning the bars
    the n9 turns by moving your hips, you can actually feel it pivot off the rear wheel
    It's a revelation when you learn how to use it.

  39. #39
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    frame is 4.2 lbs

  40. #40
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    Dan, that right there is a killer ride I bet it's got you smiling from ear to ear. I hear you guys on the "AM" monicker they throw around for this geo, totally don't get it. When I got my Paradox I was blown away by how sweet it handled, felt so much better and less twitchy than the normal steep HA "XC" designs, inspired confidence everywhere and I wouldn't recommend anything else geo wise to anyone who ride recreation ally now. Getting a Ti copy is something I always wanted to do since I got my Paradox, 'cept I'd use the newer geo with 68* HTA for a 120mm fork and raise the BB a tad.
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  41. #41
    I'm really diggin it!
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    Understeer and Oversteer

    I have been riding a Canfield Yelli Screamy for about a year now. It has been really tough to describe to people why I like it so much. One day I was reading about Understeer and Oversteer on Wikipedia and how it applied to doing a track stand. Well I realized that a normal 29er has the tendency to Oversteer. For example if you are going around a high speed right turn the bike will try and keep turning to the right. If you don't steer against this tendency or countersteer you will wind up turning to the right too much or even get high sided and maybe go over the bars. One of the reasons I didn't like 29ers at first.

    It wasn't until I put a 140mm fork on the Yelli Screamy that I felt the bike stopped oversteering completely.

    Also the bikes were too big to fit around many of the super tight singletrack that can be found at China Camp State Park in Marin County. I spend a lot of my winter riding there since it drains so well and I wanted a bike that could be easily ridden through the tight switchbacks. A short chainstay bike really worked great.

    I can't post links yet but just google Bicycle and Motorcycle dynamics. It's on Wikipedia.

  42. #42
    West Chester, PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    I have been riding a Canfield Yelli Screamy for about a year now. It has been really tough to describe to people why I like it so much. One day I was reading about Understeer and Oversteer on Wikipedia and how it applied to doing a track stand. Well I realized that a normal 29er has the tendency to Oversteer. For example if you are going around a high speed right turn the bike will try and keep turning to the right. If you don't steer against this tendency or countersteer you will wind up turning to the right too much or even get high sided and maybe go over the bars. One of the reasons I didn't like 29ers at first.

    It wasn't until I put a 140mm fork on the Yelli Screamy that I felt the bike stopped oversteering completely.
    While I get what you're saying, I found, and I think dan agrees, is that the oversteer/understeer sensation can be totally eliminated with a slight rearward weight bias and driving the rear tire of the bike into the turns with your legs. It takes a commitment to starting your turns a little later though, at least for me. Obviously, this doesn't apply to every turn on every trail. But it's something I feel a lot around here. And this is with 100mm fork on mine. I tried 120 for 2 rides and felt like it lost a little of that point and shoot quality.

    .

  43. #43
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    No, you cannot run an internal headset cup if he's using a 44ID HT, and you want to use a tapered steerer. Now if you don't mind using a straight 1.125" steerer, then yes, of course you can run an internal headset using a 44ID HT.

    Quote Originally Posted by dickt3030 View Post
    Yep, getting the Ultimate! He claims 16.5" CS and 44.5" wheelbase. Do you know what the wheelbase is on yours?

    I've already ordered a White Brothers Loop, which will be convertible from 100 to 120. He builds the Ultimate with a 44mm headtube. Just wondering if I can go with an internal headset as you have on yours. Looks super clean!
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
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  44. #44
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    Come a Looong Way!

    SWEEEEET looking frame. It looks like a REAL fun ride! Your really going to enjoy it.

    Chinese builders have come a loooong way from a year and half ago when I started looking for a "budget Ti frame". Back then, the 1/2 dozen or so builders I contacted would not touch any chainstay less than 17.5".

    This seems like a great frame. Happy for you . Great news that these Ti builders have real custom options for us common folk.
    You cannot go against nature, because when you do, its part of nature too.

  45. #45
    I'm really diggin it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    While I get what you're saying, I found, and I think dan agrees, is that the oversteer/understeer sensation can be totally eliminated with a slight rearward weight bias and driving the rear tire of the bike into the turns with your legs. It takes a commitment to starting your turns a little later though, at least for me. Obviously, this doesn't apply to every turn on every trail. But it's something I feel a lot around here. And this is with 100mm fork on mine. I tried 120 for 2 rides and felt like it lost a little of that point and shoot quality.

    .
    I also tried a carbon ridged fork and a 110 XC fork on the Canfield. Maybe the fork is causing me to put the weight back like you mentioned. The head tube angle change with the 140 fork has affected the ride quality for the better

    The Canfield is my first 29er. I also tried a super fly but it felt too "long" for my riding style. I only rode it once so I still had not noticed the oversteer/ understeer problems.

  46. #46
    tl1
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    That's a very handsome bike. Is a front derailleur completely out of the question on it with the short chainstays?

  47. #47
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    @ 412mm. I think the tire will hit
    I know the yelli can fit @16.7"
    My last three bikes have been 1x10. I have no need for a front der. I purposely left out the mount and cable stops

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    I also tried a carbon ridged fork and a 110 XC fork on the Canfield. Maybe the fork is causing me to put the weight back like you mentioned. The head tube angle change with the 140 fork has affected the ride quality for the better
    A shorter fork would shift your weight forward and increase the head tube angle.

  49. #49
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    Sweet ride Dan.
    Do you think the rear thru axle is adding stiffness? Any thoughts as to if there is benefits on a hardtail? or maybe adds stiffeness when building with a yoke?

    I'm riding a '12 Honzo with standard QR sliding dropouts.

  50. #50
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    Hard to say because I'm going from steel to ti .

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