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  1. #1
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    WARNING: Do not buy from Flyxii, Anna lies and deceives

    Dear forum members,

    I've read every single page of the Chinese 29er carbon frames thread and decided to pull the trigger on purchasing a frame. I really like the look of the FM056 (Hong Fu) or FR208 (Flyxii) and so I contacted both manufacturers. Jenny from Hong Fu replied a day later than Anna at Flyxii so I purchased the FR208 frame from Flyxii on Feb 5. The frame and parts after many delays finally arrived March 29th, almost two months later. After getting the frame and sending all the parts to the LBS, I find out a couple of things wrong:

    1. The frame they sent me was the wrong size, I ordered a 17.5 and they sent me a 21 and what was funny is that the frame was marked as a FM056. Anna replied saying the warehouse sometimes messes up the lettering and sizes.

    2. The integrated handlebar and stem I purchased is unsafe for riding according to the LBS. When the tech tried to clamp the stem down on the steerer tube, it couldn't clamp down with enough force to hold the fork in place. Well, the bolts actually stripped before it could. After the tech took the part off and inspected it, it turns out there are no metal inserts on the female end of the stem bolts and the threads were threaded directly onto the CF.

    I contact Anna and informed her of the situation and she said no problem we will send you a new frame as soon as you give us the confirmation number of the items I was shipping back to them for exchange and that she would refund me the shipping costs. After sending her the tracking number, Anna, did not hold up her end of the bargain. She did not respond to me for quite some time and eventually just refunded the cost of the items. Shipping costs were not refunded as promised and no new frame as promised.

    She contacted me last night and said that this was all essentially my fault because I didn't check the package as soon as it came in.

    I live in an apartment building and concierge signs for all packages, I have no chance of inspecting things as soon as they come in and reject them if they are not up to par.

    Bottom line is Flyxii as a vendor is as bad as they come. It does not understand the concept of customer service and deceived me in promising things they did not anticipate to fulfill. Stay away from this vendor. I now have to find a way to get my shipping costs back as well as the money for the chainstay protector I had already applied on the frame.

  2. #2
    PROEDGEBIKER.COM
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    If its too good to be true. It is.

  3. #3
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    Anna is online right now...............


  4. #4
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    I am sorry to hear about your problems. That's a sad way to end a new bike story...

    Now just imagine you bought a Niner from a LBS and the same thing happened. You'd have the correct size undamaged frame in your hands and you would be riding.

    There is a reason LBS and name brands cost more - they provide support for the product after they have your $$.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  5. #5
    Robtre
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    That chick looks like Yao Ming and Wesley Snipes had a love child! I think I am in love....

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProEdgeBiker View Post
    If its too good to be true. It is.
    It is not like the prices were too good to be true, they are offering the same price to many others on this forum but they just screwed me.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by robtre View Post
    That chick looks like Yao Ming and Wesley Snipes had a love child! I think I am in love....
    Lol, thanks for the amazing comment. That just made me smile

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by robtre View Post
    That chick looks like Yao Ming and Wesley Snipes had a love child! I think I am in love....
    LMAO......Thats good stuff my friend.

  9. #9
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    OP - That's awful. I will definitely never consider buying from that vendor now unless they take immediate steps to rectify this situation.

  10. #10
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    Damn, I ordered a seatpost from her a few weeks back. I hope it shows up next week as expected.

  11. #11
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    YEAH- If a carbon fiber frame costs 37 cents ? it might be a good idea to pass that one up Just sayin Leason learned and for us too !!!

  12. #12
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    Sorry to hear that happened, but dude, you get what you pay for right? Go local, get support.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durga View Post
    OP - That's awful. I will definitely never consider buying from that vendor now unless they take immediate steps to rectify this situation.
    Anna refunded the original amount for the items but once I started asking about a replacement frame or refunding the shipping costs she stopped responding. I have not heard from her since

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaa_cubed View Post
    Anna refunded the original amount for the items but once I started asking about a replacement frame or refunding the shipping costs she stopped responding. I have not heard from her since
    So you got a refund and started antagonizing about a replacement frame and a shipping cost refund. Some people just can't be pleased. I can't say as I blame her for cutting communication with you.

    Shipping is the price of doing business non-locally. Stop whining, deal with it and move on.

  15. #15
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    I don't think a company on planet Earth would replace an item after sending a refund. I could be wrong though,
    Me. The chosen one. They chose me. And I didn't even graduate from fu**ing high school.

  16. #16
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    How much shipping costs did you get fleeced for?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gofannon View Post
    I don't think a company on planet Earth would replace an item after sending a refund. I could be wrong though,
    Would help if you read his first post. She only refunded the cost of the frame after she decided she wasn't going to send another one. Don't think he was expecting his money back and a new frame.

    They should eat the cost of shipping both ways, that's the cost of doing business and shipping the wrong part.

    No customer for you.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaa_cubed View Post
    Dear forum members,

    I've read every single page of the Chinese 29er carbon frames thread and decided to pull the trigger on purchasing a frame. I really like the look of the FM056 (Hong Fu) or FR208 (Flyxii) and so I contacted both manufacturers. Jenny from Hong Fu replied a day later than Anna at Flyxii so I purchased the FR208 frame from Flyxii on Feb 5. The frame and parts after many delays finally arrived March 29th, almost two months later. After getting the frame and sending all the parts to the LBS, I find out a couple of things wrong:

    1. The frame they sent me was the wrong size, I ordered a 17.5 and they sent me a 21 and what was funny is that the frame was marked as a FM056. Anna replied saying the warehouse sometimes messes up the lettering and sizes.

    2. The integrated handlebar and stem I purchased is unsafe for riding according to the LBS. When the tech tried to clamp the stem down on the steerer tube, it couldn't clamp down with enough force to hold the fork in place. Well, the bolts actually stripped before it could. After the tech took the part off and inspected it, it turns out there are no metal inserts on the female end of the stem bolts and the threads were threaded directly onto the CF.

    I contact Anna and informed her of the situation and she said no problem we will send you a new frame as soon as you give us the confirmation number of the items I was shipping back to them for exchange and that she would refund me the shipping costs. After sending her the tracking number, Anna, did not hold up her end of the bargain. She did not respond to me for quite some time and eventually just refunded the cost of the items. Shipping costs were not refunded as promised and no new frame as promised.

    She contacted me last night and said that this was all essentially my fault because I didn't check the package as soon as it came in.

    I live in an apartment building and concierge signs for all packages, I have no chance of inspecting things as soon as they come in and reject them if they are not up to par.

    Bottom line is Flyxii as a vendor is as bad as they come. It does not understand the concept of customer service and deceived me in promising things they did not anticipate to fulfill. Stay away from this vendor. I now have to find a way to get my shipping costs back as well as the money for the chainstay protector I had already applied on the frame.


  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by kokothemonkey View Post
    How much shipping costs did you get fleeced for?
    Close to a hundred bucks. I sent it the cheapest way possible just in case these guys don't refund me the money. I got a quote from FedEx and they wanted to charge me a little over $600!!!!

    and regarding getting a replacement frame, well I would have preferred a replacement frame rather than a refund since I still need a frame. Wasn't expecting both and if I got both I would be praising their amazing customer service rather than talking it down.

  20. #20
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    Buying generic, foreign goods from an unknown foreign supplier can be a great way to save money, but you can't act surprised or outraged when things don't work out as hoped.

    If your demands are high, or risk tolerance is low, shop local and buy products made by companies with a reputation for sound engineering, testing, manufacturing, inspection, and customer service.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiguan View Post
    Would help if you read his first post. She only refunded the cost of the frame after she decided she wasn't going to send another one. Don't think he was expecting his money back and a new frame.

    They should eat the cost of shipping both ways, that's the cost of doing business and shipping the wrong part.
    He got a refund. Look at the stink he's raising still. It's likely that it was determined him to be a difficult customer and they felt a refund would be more prudent than paying to ship another bike. Those expenses would add up quickly when he complained about the next one.

    I know nothing about the bike or the company. But if he was following threads on the company, there must be some satisfied customers out there.

  22. #22
    bt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hundun View Post
    He got a refund. Look at the stink he's raising still. It's likely that it was determined him to be a difficult customer and they felt a refund would be more prudent than paying to ship another bike. Those expenses would add up quickly when he complained about the next one.

    I know nothing about the bike or the company. But if he was following threads on the company, there must be some satisfied customers out there.

    this too is my take^^^^

    some customers aren't worth having.

  23. #23
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    Pffftttt.... heck man you sound like you made out ok for the most part. You got a refund and you have some carbon fiber parts that still work to boot.

    What the heck did you expect ordering from China? Stellar customer service? NO... you bought from China to get the lowest possible price.

    For the $100 you got "fleeced", I think you made out fine.
    - The only thing that keeps me on a bike is happiness.

  24. #24
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    I have to side with the OP. If you buy something, anything from someone and it is bad it is usually their cost to ship it back, whether they refund you or not. I mean it isn't fair to have paid to ship the frame to the US then to have to ship it back because it was the wrong size.

    I mean it would be one thing to have shipped the bike back, gotten a new one back and a refund and complained but this is no different than CHUMBA shipping a used bike to a customer without a bunch of parts or any of the other thousand CS horror stories on here.
    Try this: HTFU

  25. #25
    bt
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    I have to side with the OP. If you buy something, anything from someone and it is bad it is usually their cost to ship it back, whether they refund you or not. I mean it isn't fair to have paid to ship the frame to the US then to have to ship it back because it was the wrong size.

    I mean it would be one thing to have shipped the bike back, gotten a new one back and a refund and complained but this is no different than CHUMBA shipping a used bike to a customer without a bunch of parts or any of the other thousand CS horror stories on here.
    you'll likely catch more flies with honey than with vinegar though.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    I have to side with the OP. If you buy something, anything from someone and it is bad it is usually their cost to ship it back, whether they refund you or not. I mean it isn't fair to have paid to ship the frame to the US then to have to ship it back because it was the wrong size.

    I mean it would be one thing to have shipped the bike back, gotten a new one back and a refund and complained but this is no different than CHUMBA shipping a used bike to a customer without a bunch of parts or any of the other thousand CS horror stories on here.
    It seems he complained about everything in the order. It seems fishy. If I had been the vendor, I wouldn't have sent another frame either. And depending on the attitude of the customer would determine their fair cost in shipping things back and forth.

    the following quote speaks volumes:
    Quote Originally Posted by aaa_cubed View Post
    ....get my shipping costs back as well as the money for the chainstay protector I had already applied on the frame.
    sumthin just ain't right

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaa_cubed View Post
    Close to a hundred bucks. I sent it the cheapest way possible just in case these guys don't refund me the money. I got a quote from FedEx and they wanted to charge me a little over $600!!!!

    and regarding getting a replacement frame, well I would have preferred a replacement frame rather than a refund since I still need a frame. Wasn't expecting both and if I got both I would be praising their amazing customer service rather than talking it down.
    That's a bummer, shipping costs makes the whole process daunting. I would hope they would ship you something for free or eat some of the shipping costs. Sooner or later they (the contacts for the chinese distributors) will need to realize their business will be affected by poor customer service.

    All things considered, I still think the chinese frames are a great deal though.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bt View Post
    you'll likely catch more flies with honey than with vinegar though.
    Tis very true, but I too have dealt with some China Companies on some components, not on this level, and they always sent me the wrong stuff and service was not good. Did it twice & I will not do it again. The second time was shame on me, there will not be a third. I guarantee you though this thread he started will definitely cause some problems for this company.

    aaa_cubed knew what he was doing by posting a thread here. Now possible customers will be shy about pulling the trigger on them. Is he telling the truth? IDK, but I tend to side with him because of my past experiences and yes it takes like 6 weeks to receive anything from these China companies. I will stick to LBS or online trusted companies, no China for me.

    Give the dude a break, we don't know his situation and maybe he's been saving for sometime. Maybe this is why he's so pissed? We don't know.

    All in all it seems lesson learned.

    aaa_cubed, sorry man... Now go shopping where you live and support your LBS.

  29. #29
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    I think the crazy thing is the OP trusting his teeth to a carbon fiber integrated stem/bar from China. That is the last place I would be looking for a bargain.

  30. #30
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    is the frame the right frame and size you ordered despite the lable?

    Dispute with your credit card. If they never sent you to the item that you paid for (eg sending wrong size frame), you are not on the hook for paying for item or shipping since it was never sent to you. some evidence out there even goes to say that you have no responsibility returning shipped item since it's a considered a gift, let alone you have to pay for shipping back.

    Morally, Seller made a major mistake sending wrong item, why should buyer have to cover the significant shipping cost?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishlips View Post
    I think the crazy thing is the OP trusting his teeth to a carbon fiber integrated stem/bar from China. That is the last place I would be looking for a bargain.
    I wonder where the carbon fiber parts $$ American name brands slap their name come from?

  32. #32
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    I also made a recent purchase from flyxii. Customer service was pretty good; not Nordstrom's or REI, but I wasn't expecting much. Frame, fork, post, and assorted small parts were delivered relatively fast with no issues. Maybe I got lucky.

    That's a bummer about the OP's experience with flyxii, but if you need the LBS to tell you the frame is 21" instead of 17.5" you probably shouldn't be buying a cheap carbon frame from China. For $2000 I'm sure the LBS will be more than happy to hold your hand and make sure you get a sweet carbon 29er frame (from China).

    If you expect top notch customer service you probably shouldn't be buying a cheap carbon frame direct from China. Again, spend $2000 and get it from your LBS.

    OP failed to mention that flyxii charges $0.00 to ship the wrong size cheap carbon frame all the way from China. $2000 at the LBS might get you a no cost, no hassle, no questions asked return policy.

    Cheap Chinese carbon stem/bar combo is suspect to begin with--I wouldn't go near that thing. I'm sure LBS will hook you up with something really nice to go with the new $2000 frame.

    Good luck.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    I have to side with the OP. If you buy something, anything from someone and it is bad it is usually their cost to ship it back, whether they refund you or not. I mean it isn't fair to have paid to ship the frame to the US then to have to ship it back because it was the wrong size.

    I mean it would be one thing to have shipped the bike back, gotten a new one back and a refund and complained but this is no different than CHUMBA shipping a used bike to a customer without a bunch of parts or any of the other thousand CS horror stories on here.
    Nope.
    Not if you are buying from OS in my experience.
    I have bought items from shops in the UK and the Good Ol' US of A and have had to return those items at my cost when I returned them.
    Same goes for items returned under warranty.

    And OP, there is a big bike show over in Taiwan(?) at the moment, I am going to guess this is why you are not getting responses.

  34. #34
    bt
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    Rmao...

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by bt View Post
    Rmao...

    Hahahahahahahahahaha!

    Thanks, that truly made my day!
    Annie are you ok? Are you ok, Annie?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaa_cubed View Post
    Dear forum members,

    I've read every single page of the Chinese 29er carbon frames thread and decided to pull the trigger on purchasing a frame. I really like the look of the FM056 (Hong Fu) or FR208 (Flyxii) and so I contacted both manufacturers. Jenny from Hong Fu replied a day later than Anna at Flyxii so I purchased the FR208 frame from Flyxii on Feb 5. The frame and parts after many delays finally arrived March 29th, almost two months later. After getting the frame and sending all the parts to the LBS, I find out a couple of things wrong:

    1. The frame they sent me was the wrong size, I ordered a 17.5 and they sent me a 21 and what was funny is that the frame was marked as a FM056. Anna replied saying the warehouse sometimes messes up the lettering and sizes.

    2. The integrated handlebar and stem I purchased is unsafe for riding according to the LBS. When the tech tried to clamp the stem down on the steerer tube, it couldn't clamp down with enough force to hold the fork in place. Well, the bolts actually stripped before it could. After the tech took the part off and inspected it, it turns out there are no metal inserts on the female end of the stem bolts and the threads were threaded directly onto the CF.

    I contact Anna and informed her of the situation and she said no problem we will send you a new frame as soon as you give us the confirmation number of the items I was shipping back to them for exchange and that she would refund me the shipping costs. After sending her the tracking number, Anna, did not hold up her end of the bargain. She did not respond to me for quite some time and eventually just refunded the cost of the items. Shipping costs were not refunded as promised and no new frame as promised.

    She contacted me last night and said that this was all essentially my fault because I didn't check the package as soon as it came in.

    I live in an apartment building and concierge signs for all packages, I have no chance of inspecting things as soon as they come in and reject them if they are not up to par.

    Bottom line is Flyxii as a vendor is as bad as they come. It does not understand the concept of customer service and deceived me in promising things they did not anticipate to fulfill. Stay away from this vendor. I now have to find a way to get my shipping costs back as well as the money for the chainstay protector I had already applied on the frame.
    Duh. What did you expect? Can i interest you in some chinese drywall?

  37. #37
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    Support you LBS

    As was mentioned, if you need to take the frame to your LBS to find if it is the right size, you should not be ordering direct from a manufacturer.

    You need to support your local bike shop. They can do all the measuring for you with the accroding mark-up.

    Too many novices are buying these carbon frames. It is a question of time before one of them screws up their build with ham-fisted wrenching and ends up in the hospital. Of course, they will try to blame someone else.

    Sorry it did not work out for you. Hope you do get a new ride.
    You cannot go against nature, because when you do, its part of nature too.

  38. #38
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    Dude, you should totally march right down there and give "Anna" a piece of your mind!

    And seriously, a carbon integrated bar and stem? It's not like any of the major manufacturers are producing them so that a Chinese factory could directly rip off their design or relabel them.

    You were lucky that the LBS even went near you with that stuff and was kind enough to provide you with a safety warning.
    Canuck in the homeland

  39. #39
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    Last edited by Hundun; 04-26-2012 at 07:47 PM.

  40. #40
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    aaa,
    Sorry for the lost shipping $, and for posting of this experience with flyvii.com.
    Perhaps, this fine example of Caveat Emptor will prevent others from an encore.
    Do wonder how you mistook a 21" frame for a 17.5"? Did you not open the box before sending it to the LBS?
    Oh & whining about a C/S protector showcases your skill as a drama queen.
    Last edited by Flyin_W; 04-26-2012 at 09:28 PM.

  41. #41
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    I ordered a frame from flyvii.com and it arrived in about 10 days and was perfect. You roll the dice when you order straight from over there. I say you made out okay.

  42. #42
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    "1. The frame they sent me was the wrong size, I ordered a 17.5 and they sent me a 21 and what was funny is that the frame was marked as a FM056. Anna replied saying the warehouse sometimes messes up the lettering and sizes.


    Strike one.

    "2. The integrated handlebar and stem I purchased is unsafe for riding according to the LBS."

    Strike two.

    "Anna, did not hold up her end of the bargain. She did not respond to me for quite some time and eventually just refunded the cost of the items. Shipping costs were not refunded as promised and no new frame as promised."

    Strike three.

    "She contacted me last night and said that this was all essentially my fault because I didn't check the package as soon as it came in."


    Strike...er four?

    Why people will get on these threads and completely thrash the poster for warning others that they may encounter similar 'weaknesses' if they do business with a particular company is beyond me.

    I am not in the market for a Chinese carbon frame and do agree with the general sentiment that you're better off with your LBS, but holy crap these companies need to be outed to keep them honest. This is an excellent forum to do so but the vitriol directed at the people who share their experiences is baffling.

    What Hundun, bt did ya get a free frame from them? Take it easy on the guy he's trying to do a service here.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by robtre View Post
    That chick looks like Yao Ming and Wesley Snipes had a love child! I think I am in love....
    LOL... But yeah...she is pretty I must say.....

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by monstertuba View Post
    "1. The frame they sent me was the wrong size, I ordered a 17.5 and they sent me a 21 and what was funny is that the frame was marked as a FM056. Anna replied saying the warehouse sometimes messes up the lettering and sizes.


    Strike one.

    "2. The integrated handlebar and stem I purchased is unsafe for riding according to the LBS."

    Strike two.

    "Anna, did not hold up her end of the bargain. She did not respond to me for quite some time and eventually just refunded the cost of the items. Shipping costs were not refunded as promised and no new frame as promised."

    Strike three.

    "She contacted me last night and said that this was all essentially my fault because I didn't check the package as soon as it came in."


    Strike...er four?

    Why people will get on these threads and completely thrash the poster for warning others that they may encounter similar 'weaknesses' if they do business with a particular company is beyond me.

    I am not in the market for a Chinese carbon frame and do agree with the general sentiment that you're better off with your LBS, but holy crap these companies need to be outed to keep them honest. This is an excellent forum to do so but the vitriol directed at the people who share their experiences is baffling.

    What Hundun, bt did ya get a free frame from them? Take it easy on the guy he's trying to do a service here.
    Agreed. Some of you guys love to put folks on blast for "thinking" they are doing the right thing. I don't detect any nefarious motivation by the OP. Give him a break.

  45. #45
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    So for all you guys who are blasting me for posting this, my whole intent was to inform you guys of what I experienced. Some have had good experiences with some vendors and some haven't and this is one of them. I was not being very difficult and was being reasonable by asking them to send me a new frame that is the correct size, it is what I ultimately wanted. I do not have the money to spend on a $2k carbon frame at a LBS. This is the first time I've tried to put a bike together and am learning the process.

    Admittedly asking them to refund me for the CS protector was a bit much. I told Anna that I really just wanted another frame.

    I also ordered the other parts from Flyxii like the stem/handlebar because I thought it looked cool and don't know to what standards these vendors manufacture these to, so lesson learned on components.

    Apart from the poor service, the frame itself looked really nice but that's it.

    As an online community who is all about bikes, I am just trying to share what I experienced and to warn others in the community to be careful with the vendors you do business with. Vendors who have positive experiences will ultimately stay in business and be around for the long run and hopefully not those that are looking to make a quick buck.

  46. #46
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    ya right

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    Quote Originally Posted by aaa_cubed View Post
    So for all you guys who are blasting me for posting this, my whole intent was to inform you guys of what I experienced. Some have had good experiences with some vendors and some haven't and this is one of them. I was not being very difficult and was being reasonable by asking them to send me a new frame that is the correct size, it is what I ultimately wanted. I do not have the money to spend on a $2k carbon frame at a LBS. This is the first time I've tried to put a bike together and am learning the process.

    Admittedly asking them to refund me for the CS protector was a bit much. I told Anna that I really just wanted another frame.

    I also ordered the other parts from Flyxii like the stem/handlebar because I thought it looked cool and don't know to what standards these vendors manufacture these to, so lesson learned on components.

    Apart from the poor service, the frame itself looked really nice but that's it.

    As an online community who is all about bikes, I am just trying to share what I experienced and to warn others in the community to be careful with the vendors you do business with. Vendors who have positive experiences will ultimately stay in business and be around for the long run and hopefully not those that are looking to make a quick buck.
    I think the problem with these chinese carbon companies is that their bread and butter is the frames manufactured for other brands. The On-One, Haro, Sette, etc, crop of new carbon hardtails that have popped up. Their side line of providing direct from source generic carbon stuff is just that a sideline as such they really don't lose anything by selling direct. If anything each bike they sell direct probably nets them more than the contract frames they make so it is a much higher profit margin but to satisfy their contract frame customers they probably can only offer so many house brand frames per year and so they throw a little effort at selling the stuff but not enough to ever be confused with companies like Control-tech or Lynskey.

    I still am of the belief that the OP did nothing wrong here (chainstay sticker aside). I would have been just as pissed if I ordered a frame, wait a long time, it came and it was the wrong size on no mistake on my behalf. To have to pay out of pocket to ship it back would have been just insult added to injury.

    I probably would have just sold it via ebay or whatever myself instead of sending the frame back, then returned the small parts so it wasn't so costly to me.
    Try this: HTFU

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    Quote Originally Posted by monstertuba View Post
    "1. The frame they sent me was the wrong size, I ordered a 17.5 and they sent me a 21 and what was funny is that the frame was marked as a FM056. Anna replied saying the warehouse sometimes messes up the lettering and sizes.


    Strike one.
    All we have is the OP's claim that Anna said this; Anna said that. I have my doubts that the size was even mis-labeled. Did the OP even ever measure it himself?

    Quote Originally Posted by monstertuba View Post
    "2. The integrated handlebar and stem I purchased is unsafe for riding according to the LBS."

    Strike two.
    LBSs are never snobby about off brand parts brought in from other suppliers to be installed in their shops, are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by monstertuba View Post
    "Anna, did not hold up her end of the bargain. She did not respond to me for quite some time and eventually just refunded the cost of the items. Shipping costs were not refunded as promised and no new frame as promised."

    Strike three.
    Perhaps she waited for the frame to get back so they could measure it themselves to determine if it had been mislabeled. Perhaps they determined this not to be the case. Perhaps they determined returned shipping to be the responsibility of the customer. That is often the case.
    When I purchase items from China I know that I assume a certain amount of risk that if there is issue of quality or whatever any savings will be lost in return shipping hassles. I recently got a lemon product on a clone item that was defective; I chalked it up to bad quality control and took the loss. I didn't whine on public forums and publicly smear the company name. Lemons get thru from time to time. It won't stop me from purchasing from china in the future knowing that there is 90% chance i will get decent clones at 1/7th the price. Those are good odds from my perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by monstertuba View Post
    "She contacted me last night and said that this was all essentially my fault because I didn't check the package as soon as it came in."


    Strike...er four?
    His claim. We don't know this line of communication occurred as he claimed. Are we to assume that someone too incompetent to measure a bike frame or remove a chainstay protector before sending the frame back is being entirely accurate in these accusations? Where are the ethics in claiming that they owe him for this supposed chainstay protector? This one issue alone casts doubt on his credibility and his motivations.
    Quote Originally Posted by monstertuba View Post
    Why people will get on these threads and completely thrash the poster for warning others that they may encounter similar 'weaknesses' if they do business with a particular company is beyond me.
    Because a lot of spoiled bratty types trash companies undeservedly for petty and dishonest reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by monstertuba View Post
    What Hundun, bt did ya get a free frame from them? Take it easy on the guy he's trying to do a service here.
    "He's trying to do a service?" Yeah, riiiight...No, they didn't give me a free frame. But due to this thread, I researched the two companies the OP mentions in top post and found customers to be generally very pleased with the frame they got for the $ paid.
    I did, however, bookmark the website of the company that the Op claimed did him so wrong. They seem to have a great many satisfied customers. The testimonials are easy enough to find doing a simple search.

  49. #49
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    When you dig yourself a hole, you're going deeper and it's harder to get out, stop digging.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hundun View Post
    All we have is the OP's claim that Anna said this; Anna said that. I have my doubts that the size was even mis-labeled. Did the OP even ever measure it himself?


    LBSs are never snobby about off brand parts brought in from other suppliers to be installed in their shops, are they?


    Perhaps she waited for the frame to get back so they could measure it themselves to determine if it had been mislabeled. Perhaps they determined this not to be the case. Perhaps they determined returned shipping to be the responsibility of the customer. That is often the case.
    When I purchase items from China I know that I assume a certain amount of risk that if there is issue of quality or whatever any savings will be lost in return shipping hassles. I recently got a lemon product on a clone item that was defective; I chalked it up to bad quality control and took the loss. I didn't whine on public forums and publicly smear the company name. Lemons get thru from time to time. It won't stop me from purchasing from china in the future knowing that there is 90% chance i will get decent clones at 1/7th the price. Those are good odds from my perspective.


    His claim. We don't know this line of communication occurred as he claimed. Are we to assume that someone too incompetent to measure a bike frame or remove a chainstay protector before sending the frame back is being entirely accurate in these accusations? Where are the ethics in claiming that they owe him for this supposed chainstay protector? This one issue alone casts doubt on his credibility and his motivations.

    Because a lot of spoiled bratty types trash companies undeservedly for petty and dishonest reasons.



    "He's trying to do a service?" Yeah, riiiight...No, they didn't give me a free frame. But due to this thread, I researched the two companies the OP mentions in top post and found customers to be generally very pleased with the frame they got for the $ paid.
    I did, however, bookmark the website of the company that the Op claimed did him so wrong. They seem to have a great many satisfied customers. The testimonials are easy enough to find doing a simple search.
    I'm really so glad that you're willing to get screwed by companies from China, not everyone is. I appreciate when there is a cautionary tale that should make me think twice or at least research a company before I do business with them.

    The 'OP's claims?' This is a mountain bike forum not a court room. Lighten up. Perhaps 'Anna' and the company did everything wrong that the OP said they did wrong. What, do think aaa is a hong fu plant?

    Why did you take it upon yourself to be the MTBR Chinese carbon complaint sheriff? Let the man say his piece so that this Mountain Bike Review website can actually serve its purpose.

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    This is my first time building the bike so I am not too familiar with the measurements and such that everyone gets into so much detail here. The LBS even confirmed that the bike was the wrong size. I have all the pictures, invoices and skype conversations to back everything I've said. This is not a court room as monstertuba mentioned.

    Haters will be haters and if you don't like what is said and have commented, that is fine, I respect the comments.

    There will always be satisfied customers and unsatisfied ones, I just belong in the ladder group and wish I wasn't.

    I realize there is some risk in purchasing direct from China and like Hundun said, if the clones come back at 1/7th the price I'm happy. This is why I am going to try to buy another frame, just from another vendor. I am not a Hong Fu plant, I only mentioned them because Jenny was responsive to me during the time when I was first interested in purchasing a frame from China and said that in the future if anything went wrong I would give them my business. This just so happens to be the case and I am just following through with what I had said in the past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bob13bob View Post
    is the frame the right frame and size you ordered despite the lable?

    Dispute with your credit card. If they never sent you to the item that you paid for (eg sending wrong size frame), you are not on the hook for paying for item or shipping since it was never sent to you. some evidence out there even goes to say that you have no responsibility returning shipped item since it's a considered a gift, let alone you have to pay for shipping back.

    Morally, Seller made a major mistake sending wrong item, why should buyer have to cover the significant shipping cost?
    The frame was labeled correctly and they did indeed send me the wrong size frame. confirmed once by measuring myself and second by the LBS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by atom29 View Post
    Duh. What did you expect? Can i interest you in some chinese drywall?
    I used to develop real estate projects here in the states and in Shenzhen China and must say that in both places I had to be careful of the vendors for drywall and most other things such as stone, lighting, concrete etc... It is why vendor reputation means a lot in an industry. there are bad vendors out there, just be careful and you won't ever find them out unless someone says something about them which is why I believe in the online forum community and how it has positive effects in the topic space that is discussed.

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    Fr-208, 3k, matte = $401
    Fk-008, 3k, matte = $111

    FM056, 3k, matte $445
    FO056, 3k, matte $120
    Shipping $80
    3.7% Paypal fee $25.35

    Flyxii is delivering the exact same product for $200 less.

    If I was competing against Flyxii I would be frustrated by this price war and look for ways to maintain my premium pricing before dropping prices myself.

    Now, if the two companies charged the same price I wonder if aaa ever starts this thread?

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaa_cubed View Post
    This is my first time building the bike so I am not too familiar with the measurements and such that everyone gets into so much detail here. .
    A tape measure is a tape measure no matter what you are measuring. If this is your first bike build, it should NOT be buying ano name carbon frame from China.

    Do yourself a favor, have your LBS handle all your bike needs. I am saying that nicely, not trying to belittle you. When you gain more experience then try this again. Sorry it did not work out for you.
    You cannot go against nature, because when you do, its part of nature too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ottoreni View Post
    A tape measure is a tape measure no matter what you are measuring. If this is your first bike build, it should NOT be buying ano name carbon frame from China.

    Do yourself a favor, have your LBS handle all your bike needs. I am saying that nicely, not trying to belittle you. When you gain more experience then try this again. Sorry it did not work out for you.
    Agreed, that is why a LBS is handling everything in terms of the build. When I say details in measurements I am referring to the many threads I've seen with the various angles and lengths between tubes and how that affects performance. That is beyond me since I am not familiar with how those things affect a persons endurance etc... Simple measurements are just that. Simple. I measured the bike to make sure it was too large and it was confirmed by the LBS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ottoreni View Post
    A tape measure is a tape measure no matter what you are measuring. If this is your first bike build, it should NOT be buying ano name carbon frame from China.

    Do yourself a favor, have your LBS handle all your bike needs. I am saying that nicely, not trying to belittle you. When you gain more experience then try this again. Sorry it did not work out for you.
    The LBS lovefest in this thread is out of control. He has the money, time and desire to buy direct from China so why not? For what he paid he can build two bikes for the price of one from the LBS. He is using this website as a resource on researching a good deal on a frame, figuring out how to build it and going through some headaches in the process. I don't see anything wrong with that.

    Keep in mind also that unless you have a super rad LBS, you are probably going to end up dealing with a kid who does less riding or knows less about components/bikes than most seasoned riders. Issuing a blanket statement to always support your LBS based on this one experience seems oversimplified IMO.

  58. #58
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    Looking online it seems that the FM056 and the frame you ordered (FR208) is the same frame.
    You even indicated this in your OP.
    Because it is marked as FM056 is of no consequence.
    Flyxii and Hongfu are likely one and the same company.
    Not arguing that you should have got the correct frame size but complaining that the frame was marked as FM056 instead of FR208 is a little weak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Looking online it seems that the FM056 and the frame you ordered (FR208) is the same frame.
    You even indicated this in your OP.
    Because it is marked as FM056 is of no consequence.
    Flyxii and Hongfu are likely one and the same company.
    Not arguing that you should have got the correct frame size but complaining that the frame was marked as FM056 instead of FR208 is a little weak.
    I am not complaining about how the frame was marked FM056 or FR208. I was just presenting things I noticed and how Flyxii chose to respond to them to give readers on this thread a better idea of the nature of Flyxii. Mentioning the frame model was not meant to be "weak", "medium strength" or "strong"

  60. #60
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    The Chinese thread is 125 pages long.
    I have actually read every page.
    The number of complaints about any of the suppliers is extremely few (I actually dont recall any except yours but yours is very recent so it sticks in my mind).
    The road version of this on Road Bike Review is onto its 6th thread. They close them down at 6000 posts I think and then start another.
    The number of complaints there is also very few.
    Most of the complaints I read are generally from guys like you who are very new or who have strayed away from the recommended suppliers (Flyxii, Hongfu, Dengfu, Greatkeen, Gotobike etc).
    Now I am not saying you do not have complaint but I have to wonder whether you would have started a thread if it was say Performance or Jenson who had shipped you the wrong frame. I understand that this is frustrating but to start a thread about it and to call these people liars and cheats is a little over the top.
    If I had ordered a bike directly from even Blacksheep, IF or Moots and there was a problem then I know that I would be out of pocket to send that back to them from Australia. If you want direct service then I agree that you need to work with an LBS or at least someone local. As it stands you have essentially dealt with someone in CHina whose usual business is supplying frames etc to somewhere prior to the wholesaler and in bulk lots. You have skipped the suppliers in that chain to DIY and are therefore missing the layers of QC that fall within there.
    I am being very specific with Hongfu and have told them that they are not to ship to me until I have seen pictures of the completed frame, paint and decals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    aaa
    The Chinese thread is 125 pages long.
    I have actually read every page.
    The number of complaints about any of the suppliers is extremely few (I actually dont recall any except yours but yours is very recent so it sticks in my mind).
    The road version of this on Road Bike Review is onto its 6th thread. They close them down at 6000 posts I think and then start another.
    The number of complaints there is also very few.
    Most of the complaints I read are generally from guys like you who are very new or who have strayed away from the recommended suppliers (Flyxii, Hongfu, Dengfu, Greatkeen, Gotobike etc).
    Now I am not saying you do not have complaint but I have to wonder whether you would have started a thread if it was say Performance or Jenson who had shipped you the wrong frame. I understand that this is frustrating but to start a thread about it and to call these people liars and cheats is a little over the top.
    If I had ordered a bike directly from even Blacksheep, IF or Moots and there was a problem then I know that I would be out of pocket to send that back to them from Australia. If you want direct service then I agree that you need to work with an LBS or at least someone local. As it stands you have essentially dealt with someone in CHina whose usual business is supplying frames etc to somewhere prior to the wholesaler and in bulk lots. You have skipped the suppliers in that chain to DIY and are therefore missing the layers of QC that fall within there.
    I am being very specific with Hongfu and have told them that they are not to ship to me until I have seen pictures of the completed frame, paint and decals.
    I too have read all the pages and don't recall many complaints and it is unfortunate that I am one of the few to have had a negative experience with the vendor. I understand if I made a mistake on the initial order that I should be the one who pays for the return since the vendor did nothing wrong on its end but this is a case in which the vendor sent me the incorrect item and the cost to return the item should be on them. I will take your advice and ask that they send me pictures etc.. of the finished frame before shipping it out though. Thank you.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaa_cubed View Post
    I too have read all the pages and don't recall many complaints and it is unfortunate that I am one of the few to have had a negative experience with the vendor. I understand if I made a mistake on the initial order that I should be the one who pays for the return since the vendor did nothing wrong on its end but this is a case in which the vendor sent me the incorrect item and the cost to return the item should be on them. I will take your advice and ask that they send me pictures etc.. of the finished frame before shipping it out though. Thank you.
    Sorry but that is not the way it works.
    I have had to pay shipping back to both US and UK companies in the past.
    you may not feel this is fair (and I agree) but that is the way it is.
    Again, just because you personally had a bad experience does not give you the right to start a thread here calling people liars and cheats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Again, just because you personally had a bad experience does not give you the right to start a thread here calling people liars and cheats.
    He didn't call anyone a liar or a cheat though he did suggest 'deception', a practice I'd want to be informed of as a consumer researching a product I was interested in. ***edit*** Mkay called her a liar in the thread title, maybe not the most pc approach. ***

    This site is all about individual consumers who've 'personally had a bad experience', or a good experience and sharing that information. Of course he has the 'right' to share that info here. Hell, he almost has the duty to do so as a member of this community.

    Am I missing something about the purpose of this site? I guess people just need to expect to have to stand in the 'e-fire' if they dare suggest they've had a problem with a company. Bad environment for a review site.

    Again very confused at all the anger toward the OP.

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    This is why I support my Local Bike Shops. Lesson learned.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by monstertuba View Post
    He didn't call anyone a liar or a cheat though he did suggest 'deception', a practice I'd want to be informed of as a consumer researching a product I was interested in. ***edit*** Mkay called her a liar in the thread title, maybe not the most pc approach. ***

    This site is all about individual consumers who've 'personally had a bad experience', or a good experience and sharing that information. Of course he has the 'right' to share that info here. Hell, he almost has the duty to do so as a member of this community.

    Am I missing something about the purpose of this site? I guess people just need to expect to have to stand in the 'e-fire' if they dare suggest they've had a problem with a company. Bad environment for a review site.

    Again very confused at all the anger toward the OP.
    Ummm yes.
    Liar and deceptive in the tile.
    Deception basically is cheating so therefore Liar and CHeat.
    Yes it is partly for sharing information and he posted his issues in the Chinese thread.
    No need for him to also start a 2nd thread about the issue and to inflate the problem by introducing that he got the wrong frame (which he did not).

    Then again I am Australian and may not understand the American way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by monstertuba View Post
    Why did you take it upon yourself to be the MTBR Chinese carbon complaint sheriff?

    Well son, I just thought I would share my BS detector readings. That's all.

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    This is the problem with distance and dealing direct. You might get a great deal if everything goes well. If not, good luck. You're out $100 - really not a bad outcome all things considered.

    As for the stem - ugh! There's 3 things on a bike that can break that will lead to missing teeth and desleaved chins (yes, had this happen to a friend!): stems, forks and handlebars. Stems and forks being the worst as you'll go down instantly with no time to put up your hands. Bars you might get lucky if only one side fails. Pay an established U.S. company that overbuilds - or at least sources overbuilt product - due to fear of lawsuits.

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    Thanks for sharing your experience OP. If I ever run across the problem, I'll make sure they give the returning shipping label or I'll just dispute the order with my credit card. I will do my best to not get $100 robbed because they can't tell the difference between an 21" and 17.5" frame. I'll also avoid their stem/handlebars.

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    How hard does a man have to pinch a penny to possess him to to take a chance on purchasing a bike frame all the way from China, anyway?

    I'm glad I'm just not impressed so much by carbon.

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    A lot of bought-from-China haters in here need to check the labels on their bike to see where they are sourced from.

    Seems a lot of people in here are very eager to critique a $400 shipped carbon frame. I wonder why. I'll surely take your criticisms over the many good reviews, experiences, and pictures in this epic thread.
    Chinese Carbon 29er
    Don't be such a hater because you think the extra quality + QC +warranty of big brands is worth it, not all us do. Not all LBS can be trusted, just like internet retailers.

  71. #71
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    To the anonymous negative rep poster.
    If you disagree with me and want to call me an irrational, argumentative jackass at least have the guts to put your name to it instead of hiding behind a childish system.

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    all i've got to say about this thread is that some of you are king hell (insert expletive here) and i would hate to meet or ride with you.

    you know who you are.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    To the anonymous negative rep poster.
    If you disagree with me and want to call me an irrational, argumentative jackass at least have the guts to put your name to it instead of hiding behind a childish system.
    agreed. grow some balls.

  74. #74
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    This thread is weird. I've often wondered why many here defend a company or product like it's a person or something? Even at the peril of a fellow member. It seems common on this forum, and indeed does kind of defeat the purpose of us all talking about products in an honest manner.
    Not being a dick, just an observation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    To the anonymous negative rep poster.
    If you disagree with me and want to call me an irrational, argumentative jackass at least have the guts to put your name to it instead of hiding behind a childish system.
    It wern't me! I got an anon neg rep too.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by monstertuba View Post
    It wern't me! I got an anon neg rep too.
    Yep, some retards on this forum.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Yep, some retards on this forum.
    Gutless retards who are still posting negative rep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wobbem View Post
    Anna is online right now...............


    That's a man Baby!

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    "She contacted me last night and said that this was all essentially my fault because I didn't check the package as soon as it came in"

    Was that their reason for not replacing the frame, refunding you instead and deciding not to pay the return shipping cost?
    youtube / strava. Back on a bike after 25years

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    It's unfortunate that the OP had a bad experience with his purchase. Adding input on the chinese carbon thread was a great idea, adding another thread bashing the seller...

    I think most people on this forum have had a bad experience with an otherwise reputable vendor. This doesn't only happen when purchasing from China. I'm sure there is someone who had Trek/Cannondale/Specialized send there LBS the wrong size or part and waited weeks or months longer than they should have, It doesn't mean nobody should buy from them.

    The fact of the matter is sometimes when we try to save money it ends up costing us. Getting the wrong part and eating shipping costs is the cost of doing business mail order. Sometime you win sometimes you don't. What kind of customer service do you really expect from a $400 carbon frame coming from the other side of the globe?

  81. #81
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    Anne has suggested the OP is responsible for the shipping costs because of a failure to inspect the package at delivery. Had he done the inspection and discovered the problems, he would have refused to accept delivery. The package would have been returned to the seller. The correct components would have been shipped at no cost to the seller. Is this a realistic expectation? Is this the correct use of the refusal of delivery? Inspection at delivery is primarily used to identify damage to a correct component that occurs as a result of the shipping process and is responsibility of the shipper not the seller. Trying to get the buyer to inspect for seller failures and get the shipper to incur shipping cost for a seller failure is gaming the system.
    Trying to identify an improper size component or a manufacturing defect of no metal threaded core in a stem while the delivery person is waiting is not realistic. The buyer has no duty to inspect for seller failures to perform in his inspection at delivery. And in fact it would have been unlikely to have been discovered by anyone seeing these products in person for the first time. His failure to inspect at delivery in no way mitigates the sellers responsibility to send the products the buyer and seller agreed upon in their contract. The seller should incur all costs related to their failure to perform. Instead they structured the subsequent transaction so that they did not incur any costs of their mistakes and shifted everything on to the buyer. They can resell the frame. The OP paid for the initial shipping. The OP paid for the return shipping.

    The seller made mistakes and has admitted the mistakes. A seller with integrity would take a relative loss to correct their mistakes in a way to make the buyer satisfied.
    The seller hasn't done that yet. They may never do the appropiated things and may not realise what is appropriate. They may feel there is no reason to give up a cent because there are no consequences. Starting this thread is the exact way to warn other buyers of the cuurent level of integrity of this seller. I would not deal with them for any transaction of any kind. Not because of the distance or the nationality or difficulty in communication, I've had a number of successful transaction like this with sellers I would buy from again. This specific seller does not perform. Hopefully this could act as a learning opportunity for other sellers and improve all experiences going forward.
    Last edited by eb1888; 04-28-2012 at 07:37 AM.

  82. #82
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    too bad it didn't work out, but you had to know the risk when you ordered from china. anna and jenny really don't sound like chinese names. $100 isn't much of a loss really. just curious, how is it you can afford to live in a building with a concierge, but a frame from a LBS is too expensive?

  83. #83
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    "anna and jenny really don't sound like chinese names."

    Never been to a massage parlor eh? Adopting "American" names is a common practice for dealing with Americans.

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    I like threads like this. It shows where costumer service is going. Could he not just use ebay? Thats where my neighbor got his for the same price. It shows thing you may not see right away. Could be somebody else is running the company now and things will change for the worse. The inspect at delivery is a good argument but they are changing that here. Now if you buy from a big brand name store and get delivery of a big item they have an independent delivery company thats in a hurry with a guy leaning over you when you sign if it was damaged or not. Most deliveries come at 6-9pm when they know you will be home. I am not a small guy but two big delivery guys with no name on an old truck looking at you like their jobs are on the line if you say its damaged can be intimidating .They cant take it back if its damaged and some other company will pick it up at a later date. Can take two weeks to get something from five minutes down the road.

    Edit:
    This thread was enough to stop me from getting the Chinese carbon rims till there is a local supplier
    2011 Kona unit with some carbon.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaa_cubed View Post
    Dear forum members,


    Bottom line is Flyxii as a vendor is as bad as they come. It does not understand the concept of customer service and deceived me in promising things they did not anticipate to fulfill. Stay away from this vendor. I now have to find a way to get my shipping costs back as well as the money for the chainstay protector I had already applied on the frame.
    Thanks for the post. I've taken it as a data point and appreciate the consumer review


    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Gutless retards who are still posting negative rep.
    Present company included, there's little reason to care about the negative opinions of people you've never met and would never care to meet. Your rebuttal was also well thought out
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  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by k29er View Post
    I like threads like this. It shows where costumer service is going. Could he not just use ebay? Thats where my neighbor got his for the same price. It shows thing you may not see right away. Could be somebody else is running the company now and things will change for the worse. The inspect at delivery is a good argument but they are changing that here. Now if you buy from a big brand name store and get delivery of a big item they have an independent delivery company thats in a hurry with a guy leaning over you when you sign if it was damaged or not. Most deliveries come at 6-9pm when they know you will be home. I am not a small guy but two big delivery guys with no name on an old truck looking at you like their jobs are on the line if you say its damaged can be intimidating .They cant take it back if its damaged and some other company will pick it up at a later date. Can take two weeks to get something from five minutes down the road.

    Edit:
    This thread was enough to stop me from getting the Chinese carbon rims till there is a local supplier

    Might not be local but there is a U.S. supplier Titus bikes. They answer their phones and have people who know bikes from my experience talking to them.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by k29er View Post
    I like threads like this. It shows where costumer service is going. Could he not just use ebay? Thats where my neighbor got his for the same price. It shows thing you may not see right away. Could be somebody else is running the company now and things will change for the worse. The inspect at delivery is a good argument but they are changing that here. Now if you buy from a big brand name store and get delivery of a big item they have an independent delivery company thats in a hurry with a guy leaning over you when you sign if it was damaged or not. Most deliveries come at 6-9pm when they know you will be home. I am not a small guy but two big delivery guys with no name on an old truck looking at you like their jobs are on the line if you say its damaged can be intimidating .They cant take it back if its damaged and some other company will pick it up at a later date. Can take two weeks to get something from five minutes down the road.

    Edit:
    This thread was enough to stop me from getting the Chinese carbon rims till there is a local supplier

    there already is a local supplier.
    Last edited by bt; 05-03-2012 at 11:08 PM.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    Anne has suggested the OP is responsible for the shipping costs because of a failure to inspect the package at delivery. Had he done the inspection and discovered the problems, he would have refused to accept delivery. The package would have been returned to the seller. The correct components would have been shipped at no cost to the seller. Is this a realistic expectation? Is this the correct use of the refusal of delivery? Inspection at delivery is primarily used to identify damage to a correct component that occurs as a result of the shipping process and is responsibility of the shipper not the seller. Trying to get the buyer to inspect for seller failures and get the shipper to incur shipping cost for a seller failure is gaming the system.
    Trying to identify an improper size component or a manufacturing defect of no metal threaded core in a stem while the delivery person is waiting is not realistic. The buyer has no duty to inspect for seller failures to perform in his inspection at delivery. And in fact it would have been unlikely to have been discovered by anyone seeing these products in person for the first time. His failure to inspect at delivery in no way mitigates the sellers responsibility to send the products the buyer and seller agreed upon in their contract. The seller should incur all costs related to their failure to perform. Instead they structured the subsequent transaction so that they did not incur any costs of their mistakes and shifted everything on to the buyer. They can resell the frame. The OP paid for the initial shipping. The OP paid for the return shipping.

    The seller made mistakes and has admitted the mistakes. A seller with integrity would take a relative loss to correct their mistakes in a way to make the buyer satisfied.
    The seller hasn't done that yet. They may never do the appropiated things and may not realise what is appropriate. They may feel there is no reason to give up a cent because there are no consequences. Starting this thread is the exact way to warn other buyers of the cuurent level of integrity of this seller. I would not deal with them for any transaction of any kind. Not because of the distance or the nationality or difficulty in communication, I've had a number of successful transaction like this with sellers I would buy from again. This specific seller does not perform. Hopefully this could act as a learning opportunity for other sellers and improve all experiences going forward.
    hmmmmm
    Last edited by bt; 05-03-2012 at 11:09 PM.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by finny1999 View Post
    What kind of customer service do you really expect from a $400 carbon frame coming from the other side of the globe?

    very good actually, sans one Fred.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by k29er View Post

    Edit:
    This thread was enough to stop me from getting the Chinese carbon rims till there is a local supplier
    Then they will be branded rims and will cost quadruple the price.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeL View Post
    Present company included, there's little reason to care about the negative opinions of people you've never met and would never care to meet. Your rebuttal was also well thought out
    Lee
    I dont care about the actual rep.
    I simply find it gutless that they hide behind the stupid system that allows them to break the forum rules and verbally abuse a member.

  92. #92
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    No lbs lovefest

    Quote Originally Posted by kokothemonkey View Post
    The LBS lovefest in this thread is out of control. He has the money, time and desire to buy direct from China so why not? For what he paid he can build two bikes for the price of one from the LBS. He is using this website as a resource on researching a good deal on a frame, figuring out how to build it and going through some headaches in the process. I don't see anything wrong with that.

    Keep in mind also that unless you have a super rad LBS, you are probably going to end up dealing with a kid who does less riding or knows less about components/bikes than most seasoned riders. Issuing a blanket statement to always support your LBS based on this one experience seems oversimplified IMO.
    I have to drive 17 miles and past 4 bike shops to get to a decent bike shop in my area ... the joys of living in S. Florida.

    There is one that is a five minute bike ride from my house, but the owner is a total tool, has kids for mechanics. There is one great mechanic in his shop, but you never know if he will work on your $hit or a kid.

    People who are starting need to buy a good book like Zinn has. Getting advice on the net is not a good idea, it could be a kid.

    One last thing, if the OP suspected the frame was the wrong size why did he stick a chainstay protector? Why did he try to have the handlebars installed? Was he planning on riding a wrong sized frame. These actions don't make sense. Makes me believe there is more to this "story" than we are being told.
    Last edited by Ottoreni; 04-28-2012 at 03:29 PM. Reason: spelling
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  93. #93
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    Cost, Service, Quality, pick 2.
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  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by bt View Post
    there already is a local supplier Einstein.
    ?? Near me?

    Like some I understand a good LBS. I drive past 4 bike shops on the way to the one I like. Bought the last 4 bike I've had from same store. I would want the same service from an on line purchase. Just because its cheap does not allow bad service. Try returning something to wallmart. They take anything back with no questions.
    2011 Kona unit with some carbon.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Sorry but that is not the way it works.
    I have had to pay shipping back to both US and UK companies in the past.
    you may not feel this is fair (and I agree) but that is the way it is.
    Again, just because you personally had a bad experience does not give you the right to start a thread here calling people liars and cheats.
    TR, I'm in two minds about this. I'm also in Australia and think that if it's their mistake they should fix it at their cost, including shipping. If they're willing to make a profit by selling something to Australia then I think it's reasonable that they offer to cover the cost for genuine returns.

    Even deal extreme offered to re-credit my paypal a/c when they sent me the wrong torch (low value I know), and CRC did likewise when I enquired about a warranty issue on a pair of FiveTens. In neither case did I take up the offer; for DX I kept the torch and with CRC I decided that being without the shoes for a what I thought would be a month or more wasn't worth it.

    I also recognise that not all sellers are willing to do this, and it's not a deal breaker for me as, I'm sure like you, the savings are very large compared to buying locally and the number of times I need to send something back means it's a low risk.

    But it's nice to know precisely what support you can expect from a vendor, but if they don't offer to cover return shipping I don't see it as lying or cheating.

    Tim

  96. #96
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    Wow....I was hoping for a Happy Ever After ending that never came !

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wombat View Post
    TR, I'm in two minds about this. I'm also in Australia and think that if it's their mistake they should fix it at their cost, including shipping. If they're willing to make a profit by selling something to Australia then I think it's reasonable that they offer to cover the cost for genuine returns.

    Even deal extreme offered to re-credit my paypal a/c when they sent me the wrong torch (low value I know), and CRC did likewise when I enquired about a warranty issue on a pair of FiveTens. In neither case did I take up the offer; for DX I kept the torch and with CRC I decided that being without the shoes for a what I thought would be a month or more wasn't worth it.

    I also recognise that not all sellers are willing to do this, and it's not a deal breaker for me as, I'm sure like you, the savings are very large compared to buying locally and the number of times I need to send something back means it's a low risk.

    But it's nice to know precisely what support you can expect from a vendor, but if they don't offer to cover return shipping I don't see it as lying or cheating.

    Tim
    Not sure if you are agreeing or arguing with me but agree that it is not a deal breaker.
    Just saying that it is not a definite.

  98. #98
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    Sounds like Anna cut bait on a bad situation. I'd of done the exact same thing after reading all the comments.

  99. #99
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    Absorutely...

  100. #100
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    I don't understand why someone would not buy from a LBS. My wife and I frequent 4 shops in town all the time. We spread the love. They treat us well, they help us out in a pinch more times than not. We take in treats for the mechanics. There is no substitute for good shops to help you.

    The OP was still going to have LBS build it up for him. That's funny right there.

    I've had shops pull some major strings for us when it came to a couple of issues we had. Always nice to have a good shop on your side.

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