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  1. #1
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Twin Six "Custom Stock" WaltWorks

    In keeping with the "full disclosure" rules, I am a member of Team Twin Six. So take this with a grain of salt, I guess. Or.......whatever. I don't have one of these, just letting ya all know about the coolest WaltWorks ever. No profit to me from this at all.

    You can see more here.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    AOF
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    Looks wicked cool.

    Only available in M or L right now? What about the long legged friends?

    -Dan
    Southern NH NEMBA & My LBS & My Blog & Single Speed Alliance

    Take advantage of every opportunity to ride your bicycle!

  3. #3
    Recovering couch patato
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    Awesome.

    I'd get that frameset just for the matching Waltworks T.

    I can't get the geometry to show, but if there ever was a thing you can leave for another person to sort, it's Walt for 29" bike geometry.

    Disclosure : Walt built me a lightweight steel fork which is just awesome, and makes carbon forks expensive and harsh in comparison. So I'm a fan, but I was that beforehand.

  4. #4
    mvi
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    Wasn't that Walt fork too light for production?Or Europe only?

  5. #5
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    I think you can still order it, but not sure. Seems fine for my sub-Clyde XC racing.

  6. #6
    Captain Underpants
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    I'm seriously considering WW for my next frame, as his work is absolutely stunning.

  7. #7
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    The frame sure looks pretty, but what advantages would this offer you over a custom Walt frame fork combo?

    Which incidentally is priced at $1200, with custom color and geometry. Add $150 for the King headset and I still only see $1350, with the Twin Six listing at $1450.

  8. #8
    Interlectchewal
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonassterling
    The frame sure looks pretty, but what advantages would this offer you over a custom Walt frame fork combo?

    Which incidentally is priced at $1200, with custom color and geometry. Add $150 for the King headset and I still only see $1350, with the Twin Six listing at $1450.
    I don't think there are any advantages, other than that it looks pretty cool, but:

    Frame & Fork: $1200
    Paragon Sliding Dropouts: $120 option
    Chris King Headset: $130
    Total: $1450

  9. #9
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    Nice set!
    Walt is building me a custom 29-er frame + fork right now. (well OK, not now because of the weekend)
    With Phil Wood EBB and Breezer dropouts, nice!
    Can't wait to get it and build it up.
    I choose the colour Steel Gray Pearlescent by the way, white decals and a Jen Green head badge

  10. #10
    mvi
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    Take the design to Taiwan and order a container full to make it interesting.
    A lot of money involved though.A lot of competition in SS as well.

  11. #11
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Not sure that would save a whole lot there.

    Quote Originally Posted by mvi
    Take the design to Taiwan and order a container full to make it interesting.
    A lot of money involved though.A lot of competition in SS as well.
    You would have to hire a pretty good outfit to top Walt's welds. (I have seen a Custom Stock in the raw ) Then you would have to ship them here, which is getting more expensive as we speak. The level of tubing used here would also cost more.

    In the end, it would be somewhat cheaper, yes: of as good or higher quality? Maybe. Would you get a Chris King headset, custom graphics, a jersey, and a limited edition look? No.

    You have to compare apples to apples here. Sure, it's not going to be everyones cup of tea, nor will it be cheap. Does it hold up under the microscope of value? I think so. In spades.

    The two sizes available were done in an effort to get some out in sizes they thought would sell. Keep in mind, Twin Six isn't a huge company with lots of $$$ behind it. I think if demand was strong enough, a guy could get one made in a bigger or smaller size, but the idea is that there won't be very many of these, making them a little more special.

  12. #12
    mvi
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    I,m just amazed at the level of pricing Redline and Zion can bring their frames for. If they can do that for $250, than what can they do for $500? And why would you pay $1200? I payed $600 for my Scandal with carbon fork.
    Not bashing the frame, I think its great. A lot of competition out there now.

  13. #13
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Again: It's apples and oranges

    Quote Originally Posted by mvi
    I,m just amazed at the level of pricing Redline and Zion can bring their frames for. If they can do that for $250, than what can they do for $500? And why would you pay $1200? I payed $600 for my Scandal with carbon fork.
    Not bashing the frame, I think its great. A lot of competition out there now.
    I know a lot of folks love thier Redlines, but I know a frame builder that rode one and looked it over. He said it was worth "maybe" what they got for it. He mentioned weld quality and geometry as being problems for him.

    Hey, there is so much you can't see from looking at a frame set. The tubing choices, the quality of the welds, the geometry, and the alignment. These are all things that cost more if the attention to detail is paid.

    And as I said, you might be as happy as a pig in the mud with a Zion, or a Redline. Hey, that's great. You won't want anything better. You won't understand why folks buy WaltWorks, Thylacines, Wilys, et all.

    You may ask, "Why is this better?" Well, as I said, it's the details, the look, the ride performance, the weight,( or lack there of) and the intangibles that a custom, hand made frame brings to the table. So, there you have it. If that doesn't make any sense, then all I can say is beg a ride on a custom sometime, and make up your own mind.

  14. #14
    Captain Underpants
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvi
    Take the design to Taiwan and order a container full to make it interesting.
    A lot of money involved though.A lot of competition in SS as well.
    No thanks. my next bike will be made in the U.S., and not by the indigenous people of . . . . wherever.

  15. #15
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    That's hilarious! That's what the rest of the world calls people from the US - the "Indigenous Peoples of Wherever."!

    Hangonaminute......or was that "Whuteva"?
    No longer member of the bike industry nor society, so don't hassle me.

  16. #16
    mvi
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    Don't want to steal the thread, but I bought a new Alu road frame welded by the indigenous people of Taiwan for $220. The thing is straight, with massive (some would say ugly) welds. The tubes are machine bend and curved like would be hard to do custom. I hope these are not build in sweatshop conditions. I don,t think an overbuild steel frame (redline) is ever going to fail.
    If I had the money, I would buy a hand build US frame. I just think its not right to put Taiwanese welders down, or give a young kid on a $200 MC frame the false impression that he is riding a product that is inferior in any means. Anybody here watching a custom US handbuild television set at home?

  17. #17
    Captain Underpants
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thylacine
    That's hilarious! That's what the rest of the world calls people from the US - the "Indigenous Peoples of Wherever."!

    Hangonaminute......or was that "Whuteva"?
    I think we would be "whatever"

    The line comes from "Fight Club"--the main character Jack describes the Ikea nesting instinct, and how he has all this glassware with the imperfections designed right in, made by the honest, simple people of . . . . wherever. He has no clue about where it comes from, but buys it because he thinks it makes a statement about him as a person.

  18. #18
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    As an owner of a waltworks frame, I can say with all conviction that there is a big difference between a $220 redline frame and a custom WW. It's not even worth discussing any further.
    Vecsus

    HTFU or STFU

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvi
    Don't want to steal the thread, but I bought a new Alu road frame welded by the indigenous people of Taiwan for $220. The thing is straight, with massive (some would say ugly) welds. The tubes are machine bend and curved like would be hard to do custom. I hope these are not build in sweatshop conditions. I don,t think an overbuild steel frame (redline) is ever going to fail.
    If I had the money, I would buy a hand build US frame. I just think its not right to put Taiwanese welders down, or give a young kid on a $200 MC frame the false impression that he is riding a product that is inferior in any means. Anybody here watching a custom US handbuild television set at home?

    Just tell the hypothetical kid with the $200.00 MC frame to get over it. He's riding a $200.00 taiwanese frame- it ain't a Willit's. There's no false impression, it's inferior, plain and simple. It may be adequate for him (for the time being), but it's inferior to a hand made U.S. frame. What is there to argue?

    As for the TV, it's probably made in China or soon will be. Same deal, a relatively disposable product. Of course in this case, it's made in a totalitarian country that is in the midst of a massive military buildup. Any guess as how they are funding it?... A hint- Wally World.

    I have a Taiwanese bike and a Soulcraft- big difference. About $ 800.00-$900.00 price wise, better welds, finish, custom geometry, better tubing and lighter weight to boot. It's also not going to suffer a failure as easily.

    That's just part of the story though. Even if there was an equivalent Taiwanese made frame to my Soulcraft, the Taiwanese will still be cheaper. But is price everything? And when does "cheaper" end up costing more? I'm quite happy knowing that my hard earned cash is going to Sean and Co.at Soulcraft, for many reasons. Not the least of which is the quality of the product.

    Your position seems to be based on the presumption that price is everything. That's the same marketing line that Walmart uses to justify their business strategies. We are only just beginning to see the fallout from this rationale in the U.S.. It's not going to be pretty. Personally, I try really hard to support first world manufacturing, whether it's the U.S., Canada or Europe. I just bought a pair of Lowa hiking shoes that are made in Slovakia, rather than another pair of Merrell's made in China specials.

    Can you really only afford a $200.00 dollar frame from Taiwan? Often when this argument is made, the proponent making it has many $200.00 $300.00 or $400.00 frames, but finds a hand built American frame just too much money... Not saying this is you, but it is all to common of a dynamic.

    I already own my Taiwanese frame, so I don't plan on getting rid of it. I also don't plan on buying any more Taiwanese made frames. I'm not putting those Taiwanese welders down , but I just value my American made frame alot more. Both for it's intrinsic and esoteric value.

    Stepping off of soap box.

  20. #20
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Just to be clear..........

    Quote Originally Posted by mvi
    ......... I just think its not right to put Taiwanese welders down, or give a young kid on a $200 MC frame the false impression that he is riding a product that is inferior in any means.
    I in no way am putting down any welders, but it is a fact that some welders are better than others. It doesn't matter to me where they are from, but it only stands to reason that a great welder is going to command a higher price for his skills than a good welder. So, my point was that to get a high quality weld on a bicycle frame, where ever that is being made, it's going to add costs to that frame over a frame that has ugly, not so great joinery.

    On the subject of Taiwan: I find that most opinions published on these forums are rather uninformed and rude. Having spoken with many folks with years of experience dealing with the Taiwanese in the bicycle industry, I can report that it is vastly different than the perceptions held by a lot of posters here.

    moondoggy hits a very salient point in his response and that is the difference between "value" and "price". I think it's fair to say that in terms of custom, hand built bicycle frames, the "value" part is rather hard to see for a lot of folks out there. That's okay. That's exactly why we see Redlines and Zions all blinged out on these boards from time to time.

    ]Anybody here watching a custom US handbuild television set at home?
    And as for this statement.......whaa.....umm.....huh?

  21. #21
    Captain Underpants
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted

    On the subject of Taiwan: I find that most opinions published on these forums are rather uninformed and rude. Having spoken with many folks with years of experience dealing with the Taiwanese in the bicycle industry, I can report that it is vastly different than the perceptions held by a lot of posters here.
    Spot on comment. Last night I had dinner with a sales rep that brings in huge amounts of product from Taiwan, and her description of factory and living conditions differed greatly from what is taken for public perception and opinion. A real eye opener for me, to say the least. One comment that stuck with me--She could just not believe how CLEAN the factories were.

  22. #22
    mvi
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    I brought up the Taiwan (China) build television set as a argument in favor of quality and reliability.
    In the 1970,s 1980,s a good roadrace frame was expensive. Now you can get a raceable Alu frame for a couple of hunderd $. With very little real world difference compared with more expensive frames.
    If you can do this with road frames, you can do it with MTB frames.
    I think my relatively cheap Scandal frame is as good, or better than a lot of frames costing 4x as much. The difference is just not there. Now carbon might be a different story.

  23. #23
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    I want a JJ : (

  24. #24
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    The actual "indigenous people of Taiwan" are the aborigines, quite a number was killed when the Chinese from mainland China fled the war with the Communists.

    They are quite different, and are dark skinned like the Malays of the Malay Archipelago which is now known as South East Asia.

    I know so cos I've been to Taiwan and I'm a Malay from Singapore.

    and that frame looks hot.
    Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

  25. #25
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    Absolutely amazing how a simple bike porn thread degrades into a political discussion with unarmed panelists.

    Neat frame G-T! Twin Six's graphic designs are really working it for me.

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