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  1. #1
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    Ti or Scandium frame?

    I am in the hunt for a good quality, relatively inexpensive ti frame like the Moto fly team ti 29er frame. I saw a good deal on a voodoo scandium frame online the other day and it got me thinking about whether that's the better choice. Assume both come in at the same price, which do you think is the better bet? Thanks.

    P.S. Looking at the combination of strength + low weight + cost

  2. #2
    Naturally Organic
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    Strong, Light, Cheap...pick 2

    Titanium...FTW

  3. #3
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    You could probably buy 3 or 4 scandium frames for the same price as a titanium frame. The ti will last much longer and can be repaired. Scandium is cheaper, but more fragile. I had the same choices and went with the voodoo.

  4. #4
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    Both hardtails, right? I'd go ti. Scandium is just an alloy of aluminum, with the same overly harsh ride in a hardtail application.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo
    Both hardtails, right? I'd go ti. Scandium is just an alloy of aluminum, with the same overly harsh ride in a hardtail application.

    Yep, both hardtails.

  6. #6
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    In my experience the scandium ride is not as "harsh" as a standard aluminum frame. The tubing is thinner so there is some nice flex. Scandium is not as soft as ti, which can be seen as an advantage or a disadvantage. I also think that the "harshness" is the desired characteristic of a hardtail. It could also be called the quickness, or stiffness. Its great for racing. Some things that will take the bite out of a hardtail are nice fat tires, a carbon post, and carbon bars.

  7. #7
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    do you want a durable bike or one that will most likely crack in ~3 seasons? I'd go Ti for ride as well

  8. #8
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    Niner Air9 I had rode great... very springy for an aluminium alloy. I did have a warranty issue with a frame crack, but it was taken care of in 48hrs.

    My lynskey ridgeline is smoother. But, honestly... not enough to warrant the $500 difference. I bought my frame used, otherwise I'd have something else. I'm cheap.

  9. #9
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    Ti

    I simply could not have responded and typed that ANY faster!

    NO QUESTION - TITANIUM
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by customfab
    do you want a durable bike or one that will most likely crack in ~3 seasons? I'd go Ti for ride as well
    That's about the size of it.

    Between the two? Ti... no question.
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  11. #11
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    Between the 2, get the one with the best fit and geometry.
    I will agree that WELL BUILT ti will ride better than WELL BUILT Scandium.
    But a CRAP BUILT either one will ride worse than a WELL BUILT frame of the other material.

  12. #12
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    Voodoo scandium $600
    Lynsky ti $1600

    If money is no object, go Ti, if there is a budget concern, get scandium, if it snaps, get another and you're still ahead of the game.

  13. #13
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    Cool-blue Rhythm If money IS an object, Ti...

    Quote Originally Posted by pbayne
    Voodoo scandium $600
    Lynsky ti $1600

    If money is no object, go Ti, if there is a budget concern, get scandium, if it snaps, get another and you're still ahead of the game.
    The OP states the Moto Fly Ti...
    What's the complete bike cost? $2000 with a Reba Race 100mm, XTR Shifters & Ders, FSA Crankset, XT Cassette, Elixir Brakes w/ Carbon levers? What would the cost of the components be? How much would any frame cost to equal? $600 frame (any material) + $400 Reba Race (conservative, deal or used) + $1000 components (& wheelset) = (lesser build IMO)?

    Break the Moto frame (less likely than a Scandium one), Ti is repairable...or get a Lynskey, Moots, Ericksen, Funk, Skyde, Titus, etc. and put your parts on your new bike...Enjoy!

    Edit: pbayne, not trying to flame you, sorry if it comes across as such...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce9er
    The OP states the Moto Fly Ti...
    What's the complete bike cost? $2000 with a Reba Race 100mm, XTR Shifters & Ders, FSA Crankset, XT Cassette, Elixir Brakes w/ Carbon levers? What would the cost of the components be? How much would any frame cost to equal? $600 frame (any material) + $400 Reba Race (conservative, deal or used) + $1000 components (& wheelset) = (lesser build IMO)?

    Break the Moto frame (less likely than a Scandium one), Ti is repairable...or get a Lynskey, Moots, Ericksen, Funk, Skyde, Titus, etc. and put your parts on your new bike...Enjoy!
    that all adds up except when you stop and think that Ti is not a material that can be manufactured cheaply. If you buy that 2k Ti bike you better be willing to write it off.

  15. #15
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    Cool-blue Rhythm Touché...

    Quote Originally Posted by customfab
    that all adds up except when you stop and think that Ti is not a material that can be manufactured cheaply. If you buy that 2k Ti bike you better be willing to write it off.
    IMO, it's more of the Wally World Way...volume pricing...cheaper imports...
    http://www.xacd.com.cn/product.asp?rootcl=1
    http://www.xacd.com.cn/product.asp?r...rootcl=1&cls=1
    http://www.xacd.com.cn/product.asp?r...rootcl=1&cls=1
    http://www.xacd.com.cn/product.asp?r...rootcl=1&cls=1
    No company one-offs any of those...
    The other bike mentioned is from Taiwan...
    Who knows for sure?
    Do people in China & Taiwan look for products made in their country? Do they complain, "Awe man, this stuffs made in the USA...I was hoping for something local..."

  16. #16
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    Ti

    I just sold my scadnium frame and went to Ti. First Ti bike ever... Wow, the ride is like nothing else, compliant like carbon, flexible and comfortable like steel. I would suggest the Ti even if you have to save your pennies.

    Enjoy

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce9er
    Edit: pbayne, not trying to flame you, sorry if it comes across as such...

    Not at all; you make very good points. This a good discussion. The good news is that no matter what you end up with, it will be a sweet bike. If I had the cash I would probably have a custom ti 29er hardtail. Luckily the Voodoo Aizan is just about spot on for the geometry I want. So I'm just trying to justify my purchase of that frame.

    More pro's for the voodoo scandium specifically: Extra support in the three areas where lightweight frames flex or break (rear disc tab, top tube/seat tube junction, headtube/downtube gusset). Adds marginal weight, but adds lots of strength. Frame also has rear v-brake posts. How many lightweight racing 29'ers have that option.

  18. #18
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    Not too sold on Scandium since what less then 2% of the material is actually Scandium (one of the rarest materials on earth).

    If I had a choice I would be riding a Black Sheep Ti.
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  19. #19
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    Yeah, it is kind of funny to call them "scandium" frames since there is hardly any scandium in there.

    By tossing a little bit of scandium in there, the aluminum basically lines up better and is stronger with less material (non tech speak version of scandium use). That way you can use less material. You end of with thinner and lighter tubes. Thus a "scandium enhanced aluminum frame" is lighter and less harsh than "pure aluminum". It add 25%-50% to the cost of an aluminum frame, but the benefit is well worth the extra money. Pretty good weight loss to cost ratio, and as strong as normal lightweight aluminum.

    IMHO scandium has a niche as budget XC racing frames.

  20. #20
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    Goot points here. I went through the same choice last year and ended up Ti. I love it and no look back. Just to add some pointless aspects. Ti looks clean and there is no paint to worry about. If i rub or scratch my frame it can be buffed out. I only have eyes for Ti as far paying for them, well you know.
    I like to ride Bikes. This might be turning into an obsession, not sure?

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  21. #21
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    Wow I'm blown away by how many people think ti is so great. My vote is for a good aluminum frame. first why do you need to keep a frame for more than a few years? Any longer than that it'll be outdated. Secondly a good aluminum frame rides pretty nice these days nothing like the harsh ride of way back whenever. The magical mystery ride of ti sounds like group think banter to me.

  22. #22
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    I don't think fundamentals of the frame has change in many years. The materials have advanced and so have the angles but the diamond frame has been around for many a years. I personally do not look at a bike frame as a disposable piece of my bike. I hope to keep the frame for many many years.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigerwah
    Wow I'm blown away by how many people think ti is so great. My vote is for a good aluminum frame. first why do you need to keep a frame for more than a few years? Any longer than that it'll be outdated. Secondly a good aluminum frame rides pretty nice these days nothing like the harsh ride of way back whenever. The magical mystery ride of ti sounds like group think banter to me.
    hard tails don't ever become outdated or obsolete. The number of companies that are putting the effort into making a nice aluminum frame are few and far between as in many cases it's more profitable to make them out of carbon. But a good frame can be made from a many materials all have pros and cons

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigerwah
    Wow I'm blown away by how many people think ti is so great. My vote is for a good aluminum frame. first why do you need to keep a frame for more than a few years? Any longer than that it'll be outdated. Secondly a good aluminum frame rides pretty nice these days nothing like the harsh ride of way back whenever. The magical mystery ride of ti sounds like group think banter to me.
    I am of the opposite opinion: Why do do you need to throw away a bike frame in a few years? (Insert comment about our disposable society here) Sure, full suspension technology changes every year, bit a well designed hardtail can last a lifetime if made from the right material.

    My philosophy is this: When you first get into biking, buy a new bike every couple of years. At this time, your needs and desires change rapidly. After a number of years, you should have figured out what you like and require. That's when you can invest in a nice custom frame to keep for many years. I did the whole full suspension, upgrade this and that, get new frame, etc. for a while. Then about 5 years ago I decided to give rigid SS a try and fell in love. Started out 26", then 69er, then makeshift 29er, and I knew I had found my bike. I recieved my custom Black Sheep 2 years ago and still love it and can't wait to ride it. It's set up singlespeed, but can run gears or an alfine hub, rigid, but can run a suspension fork. Options are good! I also invested in a Quiring Ti road bike about 4 years ago, also couldn't be happier with it!

    So I guess my suggestion is this: If you know you will want something new every couple of years, aluminum. If you are new to the sport and not sure what you want, aluminum. If you've been around a while and know what you like, titanium.

    Mark

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigerwah
    Wow I'm blown away by how many people think ti is so great. My vote is for a good aluminum frame. first why do you need to keep a frame for more than a few years? Any longer than that it'll be outdated. Secondly a good aluminum frame rides pretty nice these days nothing like the harsh ride of way back whenever. The magical mystery ride of ti sounds like group think banter to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny
    I am of the opposite opinion: Why do do you need to throw away a bike frame in a few years? (Insert comment about our disposable society here) Sure, full suspension technology changes every year, bit a well designed hardtail can last a lifetime if made from the right material.

    My philosophy is this: When you first get into biking, buy a new bike every couple of years. At this time, your needs and desires change rapidly. After a number of years, you should have figured out what you like and require. That's when you can invest in a nice custom frame to keep for many years. I did the whole full suspension, upgrade this and that, get new frame, etc. for a while. Then about 5 years ago I decided to give rigid SS a try and fell in love. Started out 26", then 69er, then makeshift 29er, and I knew I had found my bike. I recieved my custom Black Sheep 2 years ago and still love it and can't wait to ride it. It's set up singlespeed, but can run gears or an alfine hub, rigid, but can run a suspension fork. Options are good! I also invested in a Quiring Ti road bike about 4 years ago, also couldn't be happier with it!

    So I guess my suggestion is this: If you know you will want something new every couple of years, aluminum. If you are new to the sport and not sure what you want, aluminum. If you've been around a while and know what you like, titanium.

    Mark
    bikeny is exactly right. I got my Ti road bike in 2002 and still have not found anything better for me. I rode a Roubaix SL3 a couple of weeks ago and it probably climbed a bit better than my Litespeed, but not enough to make me plunk down $4K for the thing when my Ti is as comfortable and as capable. I'm not a racer, so that's not a factor. In the 7 or 8 years I've had my Litespeed, I haven't been tempted by any other road bike.

    For MTB, I got an Al HT to test the waters. I'll get a FS and eventually, maybe replace the Al with a Ti HT for a permanent bike.

    HT design, as noted, doesn't change all that much. Angles and welds, but if you find one that fits in Ti, it'll last a lifetime. No rust, no fatigue, no anything... so why would you replace it? IT won't be outdated and it'll still ride like it's new.

    As for the magical mystery ride... try one. It's certainly not groupthink and if a hack like me can feel the difference (on the road, anyway), then it may well be magic!

    Quote Originally Posted by customfab
    that all adds up except when you stop and think that Ti is not a material that can be manufactured cheaply. If you buy that 2k Ti bike you better be willing to write it off.
    What do you mean, "willing to write it off"?
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