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  1. #1
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    Three blinged out Carbon 29ers - Turner Czar, SC Tallboy, Pivot Mach 429

    Some BC XC on Ledgeview in Abbotsford












































    [/QUOTE]

    Pivot Mach 429 Carbon, Turner Czar, Santa Cruz Tallboy. All shimano pedals, All of us about the same size. All of us traded off bikes. What're the chances?

    Trails super lush and green.
    Locals' Guide to North Shore Rides http://mtbtrails.ca/

  2. #2
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    Wow. Stunning looking singletrack. Thanks for the superb photos.

  3. #3
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    Great post. So which bike handled the best? You guys should make a mini-review or mini-shootout comparision.

  4. #4
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    Nice bikes with great setups but I don't know about "blinged out". All sweet rides never the less. Oh and + 1 on the "stunning looking" singletrack.
    If I had a black light this place would look like a Jackson Pollock painting.

  5. #5
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    Wow, what a nice place...the one and only thing that makes me dislike living in South Florida.
    NTFTC

  6. #6
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    Where is that? It looks gorgeous! Northwest?

  7. #7
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    ACMI - going for a ride now! Post later

    Quote Originally Posted by reydin View Post
    Nice bikes with great setups but I don't know about "blinged out". All sweet rides never the less. Oh and + 1 on the "stunning looking" singletrack.
    I dunno. The Czar had Enve wheels and XX1. The Tallboy was full XTR. The 429 was the crappiest adorned ride with full xt. Seemed bling to me! :>

    Quote Originally Posted by Settertude View Post
    Where is that? It looks gorgeous! Northwest?
    Ledgeview. Abbotsford in BC. Was a beautiful day
    Locals' Guide to North Shore Rides http://mtbtrails.ca/

  8. #8
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    Yup, I'll give it to you an the Czar that's for sure enjoy the ride!
    If I had a black light this place would look like a Jackson Pollock painting.

  9. #9
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    Another Florida rider who would love to have single track like that. Thanks for posting!!!
    2013 SC Tallboy C
    2011 Niner EMD9

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdtrfb24 View Post
    Another Florida rider who would love to have single track like that. Thanks for posting!!!
    Well, for full disclosure: I live a mile from a great beach, so I went there after riding this morning...there is that.
    NTFTC

  11. #11
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    haha...reydin might need help pulling his foot out of his mouth, as he's got it jammed in there pretty deep.

    Great looking area. me jelly

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    haha...reydin might need help pulling his foot out of his mouth, as he's got it jammed in there pretty deep.

    Great looking area. me jelly
    Haha, not really, as I said, all three are nice bikes with solid builds but to me only the Czar takes it to the "Bling" level. So that would be "One bling and two Effin sweet Carbon 29ers".
    If I had a black light this place would look like a Jackson Pollock painting.

  13. #13
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    Very nice bikes and a beautiful trail. They are not "blinged out", especially if one is sporting XT and two don't have carbon wheels. Killer bikes all the same. Thanks for the stoke!
    I'm a mountain bike guide in South West Utah

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeL View Post
    ACMI - going for a ride now! Post later
    Awesome, Lee. Great trails. To me, the frames alone are bling already. Though I agree the Pivot is not "blinged out". Great bikes nonetheless.

  15. #15
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    from bg who sipped the 29er koolaid for the first time: "We each took turns riding a Pivot Mach 429, Tall Boy and the CZAR. I must say the CZAR does not ride like a 29r, its very playful and quick handling. Where other 29r's like going straight, like the Pivot and Tall Boy, the CZAR doesn't mind taking detours off the trail. All three of these bikes are great, different and capable."


    Me:

    Turner Czar - what I always wanted from the holy grail of 29ers. Big wheel rolling advantage on the flats, rolling over advantage on the descents, minimal handling compromises on the descents. Thank god there are now bikes that are designed well. Czar is the best handling 29er I've had ever. Better than my personal Tallboy. Am still in shock over how well it handles on the downhill; it begs for more. It begs to be ridden hard. Ridiculously nimble. Sure it climbs well - but I expected that out a light bling machine. I didn't expect it to rally Dh the way it does.

    Sram XX1, 100 front/rear, carbon wheels, ~24.2lbs


    Pivot 429 - climbed like the Czar - ie like a DWlink bike of which I'm a fanboy. The suspension's anti-squat seems to let the bike recover between multiple hits (eg roots) so you don't even to alter pedal stroke but can keep applying power. Not like 4-bar where you use the actuation of a rear shock to time pedal strokes to get max grip between pedal strokes or VPP which seems to firm up under pedalling. Small digression; I'm of the view that different suspension characteristics aren't better or worse. They're just different. It's up to the rider to find their preference and either adapt their riding style and if they don't want to/ or can't adapt riding style --- then to find another suspension that works for them. On flats and downhill it wants to attack. Not poppy and playful attack but more like a Dh, absorb everything, rail everything attack. Might have been setup (had big 780mm bars) but it rode quite differently downhill than the Czar

    Shimano XT/ 120front/100 rear, DT alloy wheels ~ 29lbs

    SC Tallboy C - my personal bike so I'm a bit biased there. In summer 2011 at its time it was the only bike that met the criteria of what I wanted. Still more than holds its own. Still holds its own and better than both Czar and 429 even in some ways (feels incredibly tight and maneuverable for eg) but the VPP seems to not have two things that I like out of the DWlink. In climbing, there's a little hitch in the recovery between obstacles so you have to be bit more precise in climbing. In descending, the suspension firms up on longer descents. That seems to be a characteristic of the Tallboy. It's just that bit more firm in its ride than the ever-so-slightly more plush feeling Pivot and Turner (all bikes set up for manu'er recommended settings shockwise). Again, that's not bad or good - its just a different characteristic. I can't help going back to my impression of the RM Element 29er and the fact that it felt so like the Tallboy -- which is neither here nor there I know.

    Long and short - those are my impressions and hope they help for whatever carbon machine you're thinking about getting.

    Disclosure is that the Czar will be the subject of a test article for MTBR
    Locals' Guide to North Shore Rides http://mtbtrails.ca/

  16. #16
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    No comment on the bikes, but that looks like a killer trail!
    Grit, spit, and a whole lot of duct tape!

  17. #17
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    LeeL,

    Good stuff. Now please go ride a Ripley and add to the mix...
    Quote Originally Posted by VanillaEps View Post
    A little bit of pee just trickled out of my pipi when I saw that.

  18. #18
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    They are not "blinged out", especially if one is sporting XT and two don't have carbon wheels.

    Are you the "Bling Police" letting everybody know their bikes are not as "Bling" as they thought???? Anyway very nice bikes guys and even cooler trails. Thanks for sharing

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.A. View Post
    Are you the "Bling Police" letting everybody know their bikes are not as "Bling" as they thought???? Anyway very nice bikes guys and even cooler trails. Thanks for sharing
    What are you, the anti-opinion police???? Anyways, thanks for sharing your opinion on someone's opinion.

    Prolly the best way for OP to have titled it to avoid 'confusion' is to have stated something like "three bling Carbon 29ers" instead of "Three blinged out bikes Carbon 29ers"

  20. #20
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    Florida guys, just make the drive to Alafia, Boyette and Santos....I finally did and the trails have everything a XC bike could ask for.....well, most everything.

  21. #21
    North Van/Whistler
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    OK - everyone settle down :> Should have just said three very nice carbon 29ers!
    Locals' Guide to North Shore Rides http://mtbtrails.ca/

  22. #22
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    Awesome, Lee. Thanks for the review.

  23. #23
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    Wow, those are some nice bikes. I think my favorite is the Pivot, as it has a Fox fork and Shimano brakes. Santa Cruz bikes just are not better than everybody, in my mind.

  24. #24
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    BC... that is serious Mountain Lion country. trails look amazing but very fast. Did you need that much travel? A hard tail with a 120 or a 4" bike might have boosted your speed.

    No expert... honestly just asking.

    and my primary rig is a TB LTc

  25. #25
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    Not sure if I'm understanding your comment above, but all 3 bikes are 100mm (4") rear travel bikes.

  26. #26
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    my bad... I thought the TB was an LT. In that case they are probably perfect. I would question if a carbon frame HT could out run em all. Just curious

  27. #27
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    No worries, I thought you were just using a Jedi mind trick on me.

  28. #28
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    were you visiting or do you live there? if you live there how often do you encounter big cats? I ask because that region has more reported attacks than anywhere in the world.

  29. #29
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    Disclosure is that the Czar will be the subject of a test article for MTBR[/QUOTE]

    So... You like the Czar the best? That's what I read between the lines... Sounds like any of the three would be a nice bike to have.

    I like your description of different suspensions and how they match different riders. Pretty insightful.

    Bob

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by LB412 View Post
    BC... that is serious Mountain Lion country. trails look amazing but very fast. Did you need that much travel? A hard tail with a 120 or a 4" bike might have boosted your speed.
    huh? Mountain lions? Longer travel bikes?
    Locals' Guide to North Shore Rides http://mtbtrails.ca/

  31. #31
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    LB - I live here. I've seen cougars but from a distance hiking and not on my bike. There are tons of bears and I've seen those biking. I was not aware that we had the most documented number of mountain lion/ I think you mean cougar attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobo_krkk_NIN View Post
    Disclosure is that the Czar will be the subject of a test article for MTBR
    So... You like the Czar the best? That's what I read between the lines... Sounds like any of the three would be a nice bike to have.
    [/QUOTE]

    For what I want out of a bike I like the Czar the best.
    Locals' Guide to North Shore Rides http://mtbtrails.ca/

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeL View Post
    huh? Mountain lions? Longer travel bikes?
    Yes... More cougar attacks ( not 40 + yr old human females) than anywhere else in the world.

  33. #33
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    Good stuff Lee.

  34. #34
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    The Devinci Atlas seems to be getting popular, would love to see it in this mix to see how she compares.

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    Leel, great pics of some very nice trails. Liked your mini ? review and your opinion about diff. bikes appealing to diff. riding styles. I couldn't agree more. I would say that the Czar had a minor advantage with carbon wheels. I put carbon wheels on my TBc and the sports car feel improved, I think this would apply to any of the bikes. Great comments though.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by confused View Post
    The Devinci Atlas seems to be getting popular, would love to see it in this mix to see how she compares.

    Me too. I think it would have a unique ride experience... but might have it's tradeoffs as well. Very interested in this bike.

  37. #37
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    LeeL, Do you think the new TB2, could sway your opinion any?


    I would run a 120mm on any of these. The TB is the only one I could get local... : ( ... and of course, they don't demo.

    Those Czars are a thing of beauty, though. Appreciate the write up.

  38. #38
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    Atlas looks vvvvverrry interesting. Nice and compact. Nice small compact wheelbase and chainstays. Will see if I can hunt one down.

    Quote Originally Posted by fruitafrank View Post
    Leel, great pics of some very nice trails. Liked your mini ? review and your opinion about diff. bikes appealing to diff. riding styles. I couldn't agree more. I would say that the Czar had a minor advantage with carbon wheels. I put carbon wheels on my TBc and the sports car feel improved, I think this would apply to any of the bikes. Great comments though.
    At 160lbs I'm not super big. The Crests are about as light as the carbons but objectively less stiff I know. The question is whether this stiffness difference is perceptible to me. I couldn't really tell a huge difference in wheel flex on my trails going between these three bikes. I'll grab a set of carbons and stick them on the Tallboy to see if they make a difference to me. But I don't know how much value that would be since opinions are so subjective no? Plus my trails all have some inherent give with the soil content being the way they are. Fruita GJ rocky trails are sure different.

    I can tell you that I could feel wheel and fork flex a ton more riding in Phoenix and Moab than I ever could riding here.

    Quote Originally Posted by d365 View Post
    LeeL, Do you think the new TB2, could sway your opinion any?


    I would run a 120mm on any of these. The TB is the only one I could get local... : ( ... and of course, they don't demo.

    Those Czars are a thing of beauty, though. Appreciate the write up.
    I looked at the TB2 and it didn't seem to have a huge difference to the TB1 - not enough that I would change it up. The main difference to me was that the SC suspension is VPP and the other bikes are DWlink and that certainly hasn't changed. And to stress again; these two suspensions weren't better or worse - just different and suitable for different riders.

    Agreed on the Czar being beautiful. Honestly I can't tell that its a 100mm up front; the Czar eats up tech terrain.

    Czar on a 525m descent from Mt Tzouhalem to Genoa Bay on Vancouver Island. Huge stands of Garry Oak and arbutus trees. Long sustained downhills. Lots of sharp corners. Lots of moderately steep rock faces where you're always on the brakes but not stupid steep. This was pushing the XC genre a bit. The fork felt fine. The rear end was always tracking true. The rear tire sometimes lacked a bit of bit for swinging around corners but the RaceKing surprises in how much it does handle. The front tire is pretty good for braking, grip and cornering (Conti Mountain King II). The only thing that was lacking were the SRAM brakes that lacked a bit of control and would fade towards the end of long sections (they would come back if you feathered the brakes on flattish rest spots)

    Locals' Guide to North Shore Rides http://mtbtrails.ca/

  39. #39
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    I am in the process of building a Devince atlas carbon with xx1 and I9 wheels. I will post a review after a few rides to get everything dialed in. That is, if I ever come in from the trail after riding it!!!

  40. #40
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    I don't cruise the 29er forum... like ever, but found this link somewhere. Thanks for the review and mini comparo, Lee. The more I read your impresseions of the Czar, the more I think it would be the perfect complement to my Chilcotin. Still looking at some lighter, shorter travel 650b bikes like the Sight Carbon and SC Solo but you've definitely got me wanting to try a few of these short-chainstay 29ers too.

    Looking forward to Interbike (or OuterBike) this year..... or maybe I just need to come up to North Van and test bikes again.
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  41. #41
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    Funny you mention that krob. I was thinking czar to put next to my chili as well
    "Lightweight , durable , inexpensive
    Pick 2."

  42. #42
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    I want to go to there...

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtDummy View Post
    LeeL,

    Good stuff. Now please go ride a Ripley and add to the mix...
    Yes, this! A 3-way dw-link rumble would be fantastic! (don't care for the TB)
    Better to have and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

  44. #44
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    Locals' Guide to North Shore Rides http://mtbtrails.ca/

  45. #45
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    Sweet bikes but you would never get me riding those trails. Too many stories of mountain lions and wolverines in them there parts.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by LB412 View Post
    Yes... More cougar attacks ( not 40 + yr old human females) than anywhere else in the world.
    So, like 3, or what?
    Supply Side Jesusnomosist

  47. #47
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    Lee, how far is the good riding (like this, for example) from Vancouver? I have a job offer there, but it would take a lot for me to move...unless the trails are accessible. Great pictures!

  48. #48
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    But where's the video of the NS fall riding??

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer View Post
    Lee, how far is the good riding (like this, for example) from Vancouver? I have a job offer there, but it would take a lot for me to move...unless the trails are accessible. Great pictures!
    There's riding like this IN Vancouver. There's a guidebook you can buy in my sig with trail descriptions

    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh View Post
    But where's the video of the NS fall riding??
    Saving it for when we test Pivot Mach 6s!
    Locals' Guide to North Shore Rides http://mtbtrails.ca/

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