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Thread: "Tai"-Jones

  1. #1
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    "Tai"-Jones

    I'm surprised I haven't seen more of these posted:







    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  2. #2
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    I have yet to see a ride report for one of these, so... how's it feel? Can you compare it to a Ti Jones?

  3. #3
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    Does Jeff actually have them in now?

  4. #4
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    I'm not, at least not for the price he's asking for them. You'd think they were still being built in a little one man shop by Jeff himself for the price he wants.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    I'm surprised I haven't seen more of these posted:
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  5. #5
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    how much are we talking here?
    Rudy Projects look ridiculous

    visit my blog, BEATS, BIKES & LIFE

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    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed
    how much are we talking here?
    http://jonesbikes.com/production_framesets.html
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  7. #7
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    so close...

    I was so close to pulling a trigger on one, but I just couldn't be swayed to rebuild 2 nearly new front wheels....

    How's the ride??
    future nature

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    Lots o Rigid

    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    I'm surprised I haven't seen more of these posted:








    How many rigid SS's does one man need?

    OT sorta, Still gettin' the Nimble 9's?

  9. #9
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    Looks like a Black sheep ripoff, he should pay royalties

  10. #10
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    How does she ride compared to the Stickel? I was kinda sorta looking at one before I got my ByStickel.....Very Nice indeed, I like the Black themes. Later dude, and enjoy her.

  11. #11
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    Was that Aqua's at one time?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7HVN
    How many rigid SS's does one man need?
    Wah, huh?

    N+1

    Quote Originally Posted by 7HVN
    OT sorta, Still gettin' the Nimble 9's?
    If I do, something will have to go.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssumo
    How does she ride compared to the Stickel? I was kinda sorta looking at one before I got my ByStickel.....Very Nice indeed, I like the Black themes. Later dude, and enjoy her.
    Stickel is springier and noodlier, especially with the carbon fork.

    Stickel is slightly nimbler and wheelies better due to 1/2 inch shorter stays.

    Wheel base on the bikes is nearly identical ~42" or so, the Stickel just puts the BB 1/2" further back between the axles.

    This bike feels much stiffer/deader on impact, but the front end is incredibly confidence inspiring. Almost no detectable for-aft flex. It is burly for sure.

    It feels and handles a lot like my beloved Simon Bar except with a properly stiff fork, and without the ping of Aluminum.

    There is nothing I dislike about it, but if I went custom would shorten the rear 1/2" and lengthen the front center 1/2"

    For the price of this frame I don't think you can go wrong if you are a committed rigid rider.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    Looks like a Black sheep ripoff, he should pay royalties
    Hater
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  15. #15
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    @MMcG: Take a closer look. This is the diamond frame model while Aqua has the steel spaceframe one.

  16. #16
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    Looks gorgeous, tai or ti. Nice one, you're drinking deep

    I've realised in my ~3 months of being rigid that stiffer is better. The opposite of what I thought before acquisition

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    Enel, nice, what rims are you using?
    Also, what some are missing is the fact that the frames come w/ a fork. Diamond and Spaceframe. rich

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    Quote Originally Posted by Britney Spears
    @MMcG: Take a closer look. This is the diamond frame model while Aqua has the steel spaceframe one.
    Oh.

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    nice

    Do you think it is worth the upgrade for the truss over the unicrown fork? I like the bike, dont care if it is a bit spendy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    I'm not, at least not for the price he's asking for them. You'd think they were still being built in a little one man shop by Jeff himself for the price he wants.
    Dont you ride a paradox? Those are 600$ and the Jones are 750 for frame and fork and bushnell bb. Doesn't get spendy until you add a truss fork then it is 1100.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chromagnus
    Do you think it is worth the upgrade for the truss over the unicrown fork? I like the bike, dont care if it is a bit spendy.
    The truss is the whole reason I bought the frame/fork combo. I got a little taste of it on Aqua's bike and really liked the feel. It is unlike any two bladed fork I have ridden.

    I have not ridden the Jones two blade, so no idea how it compares.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  22. #22
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    gotcha

    yeah sorry about that. I didnt figure that you had the unicrown, but your last post is telling if you think it feels better than any other rigid fork. good enough of a review/comparison for me. Nice to see a review of the frame.

  23. #23
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    Tai, hehe clever!
    Read my BLOG!

    just a guy who loves bikes and exploring

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    I have the original diamond 24 " ti version of that bike and I love it. It full on rips.
    Like you, I run the bike with 70mm stem and wide flat bar. I did not like the Jones bar on my bike. With that setup it feels and handles like a big wheel bmx bike.
    The fork tracks incredibly well, I am amazed at the stuff I can shred on this bike. I too wish the stays were a little shorter and also that there was more tire clearance, but other than that I have never had so much fun on a rigid bike.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjedoaks
    Enel, nice, what rims are you using?
    Also, what some are missing is the fact that the frames come w/ a fork. Diamond and Spaceframe. rich
    Flows.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chromagnus
    yeah sorry about that. I didnt figure that you had the unicrown, but your last post is telling if you think it feels better than any other rigid fork. good enough of a review/comparison for me. Nice to see a review of the frame.
    I would not say it is better than any other fork. It feels different from every other fork I personally have tried. It is much more rigid when standing on the front wheel. There is none of the fore-aft resonance that is often seen under braking on a rigid. I would say it rides harsh, but I think all rigid forks pretty much ride harsh and am certainly no fork snob. To me rigid is rigid.

    I would like to try a Niner carbon because it is super light and seems to be designed to alleviate the same fore-aft thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  27. #27
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    where is the geo posted?
    Rudy Projects look ridiculous

    visit my blog, BEATS, BIKES & LIFE

  28. #28
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    Looks great Enel!

    I should have mine with a basic fork in the next few weeks I suppose. Looking forward to it!

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    I think I am adapting nicely:




    Jordan would be proud.

    I got out for a more woodsy ride this afternoon with the spawn. He noticed the "Jones" sticker sparkled in rainbow colors in direct sun, but I never saw it. Apparently it glows in the dark also:



    Nice touch.

    I didn't get much up to speed, but climbing felt like pretty much every bike, and the few times I got up to speed descending, it was super predictable with lots of front end grip. When the front lost traction, it was easy and predictable to manage it. Tire pressures are too high and I got a bit of a beating.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    Flows.
    thanks, I know JJ has his own branded 135 front hub now.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    I'm not, at least not for the price he's asking for them. You'd think they were still being built in a little one man shop by Jeff himself for the price he wants.
    $750 is a lot of money for a frame & fork?

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    @ Enel - Do you think you will notice the difference in the wider hub compared to other wheels you've ridden, or do you think that will be too hard to discern due to the truss fork?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding
    @ Enel - Do you think you will notice the difference in the wider hub compared to other wheels you've ridden, or do you think that will be too hard to discern due to the truss fork?
    I don't think I can tell. Theoretically it should be a stronger, more durable wheel, but I can't remember the last time I killed a front.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    Nice banana yellow gloves

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    It'd look betterer with the ti truss fork on.

    If only someone had a used on for sale.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    I would like to try a Niner carbon because it is super light and seems to be designed to alleviate the same fore-aft thing.
    I think the Niner Fork on your ByStickel will be a very noticeable difference over the On One Carbon.
    Last edited by nitrousjunky; 02-12-2011 at 09:44 AM.
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

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    To answer the first question, Yes I ride a Paradox, MSRP is $600 for them.

    As to the cost of the Jones, no I guess when you have other steel frames in that price range (not that I'd pay that for any of them since you can get a custom steel for about $800), but that was not what was being thrown about when they were being talked about, much, much higher. Also, then you have steel frames & fork for under $500 like the KM, so also, yes it's a lot. The there's the biggest BS of only being in one size, I mean really, now all of a sudden a 5'6" person should ride the same size bike as a 6'2" person? Give me a break.

    Quote Originally Posted by chromagnus
    Dont you ride a paradox? Those are 600$ and the Jones are 750 for frame and fork and bushnell bb. Doesn't get spendy until you add a truss fork then it is 1100.
    Quote Originally Posted by customfab
    $750 is a lot of money for a frame & fork?
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrousjunky
    I think the Niner Fork on your ByStickel will be a very noticeable different over the On One Carbon.
    And it comes tapered
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    And it comes tapered
    Yep, I've thought about getting one for mine at some point as well. Now if only it came with 15mm axle option too.
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrousjunky
    Yep, I've thought about getting one for mine at some point as well. Now if only it came with 15mm axle option too.
    I think Ragley is working on something like that.

    Despite the fork, the Bystickel and the Jones are on opposite ends of the stiffness spectrum of bikes I have owned. The Bystickel feels a lot like my Zion brand steel frame or an On-One Inbred. A bit flexy, and I can wind up the rear, but man it is comfy. The Jones is close to the Simon Bar: mega stiff, punishing, and precise. A Karate Monkey would be in between. The stays on the Jones dwarf the Zion/Stickel stays. This thing is pretty overbuilt. That's probably why Aqua hasn't broken his yet.

    I don't think there is a right answer for how stiff is just perfect, and how stiff is too stiff but I think riders will definitely have their preferences.

    Stiff=more punishing
    Flexy= slightly less punishing
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

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    I thought that - looks as stiff as the Paradox out back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    To answer the first question, Yes I ride a Paradox, MSRP is $600 for them.

    As to the cost of the Jones, no I guess when you have other steel frames in that price range (not that I'd pay that for any of them since you can get a custom steel for about $800), but that was not what was being thrown about when they were being talked about, much, much higher. Also, then you have steel frames & fork for under $500 like the KM, so also, yes it's a lot. The there's the biggest BS of only being in one size, I mean really, now all of a sudden a 5'6" person should ride the same size bike as a 6'2" person? Give me a break.
    Custom steel bike for 800? Comparing to a KM (which is a POS IMO)?

    As to being only one size, if it doesn't fit, don't buy it. 750 for a frame and fork is not that much.

  43. #43
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    Get a fatty on the front

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightySchmoePong
    Custom steel bike for 800? Comparing to a KM (which is a POS IMO)?

    As to being only one size, if it doesn't fit, don't buy it. 750 for a frame and fork is not that much.
    But it's not a 'custom' frame is it? It only comes in one stock size.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clink
    But it's not a 'custom' frame is it? It only comes in one stock size.
    Didn't say it was. The guy I was responding to said that you could get a custom steel bike built for 800 bucks. I was just questioning that.

  46. #46
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    Well thank you Enel. Now it really so much easyer to wait till the end of month... Aargh! (Chewbacca cry)

  47. #47
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    I was not out on my Jones today, but I did see 2 steel spaceframe big front wheel Jones on there maiden ride. A father and son combo that I see often and have talked loads about my Jones have purchased them. One was black and on was blue.... Geared though. They looked sharp... To be honest, I am not a fan of the big front wheel....

    Enel, bike looks mean.... Sucks we dont have the hard core techy terrain like Aqua does etc....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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    Indulge me with some words/thoughts/spew:

    Besides a couple short shakedown rides last week, my first real ride on this thing occurred in Sedona this past weekend with Aqua. I felt comfortable on the bike immediately and charged the thing hard from what was essentially my second hour on the bike. I felt comfortable in technical high consequence terrain, in standing climbing, and at high speeds.

    This frame and fork combo rides unlike any I have ever ridden. The front end stiffness/tracking is simply off the charts beyond any other combo I have tried. It's not even close.

    The magical combination of the short A-C, long head tube, triangulated, double clamped truss fork, and 135 front wheel spacing yields a precise, planted feel with minimal fork flex/wiggle under braking and under side loads.

    I did a little experiment in the garage last night. I took my four rigid bikes and held the front brake and balanced them on the front wheel, and just pushed up and down until I found the resonant frequency where they would vibrate back and forth a bit. It is in the range of 2-3 herz for these bikes.

    Bystickel/On-One carbon fork vibrated the slowest, and by far the most, even bouncing up off the ground if I kept it going at the resonant frequency. I tried it again with a Steel fork it felt less flexy, and the vibration frequency was a bit higher.

    Karate Monkey Frame/fork was about the same as the Stickel/steel fork.

    Aluminum frame/Carbon fork vibrated still a little faster and felt less flexy.

    Jones frame/truss fork flexed an order of magnitude less than any of the other combos and the frequency was out of the ball park higher than the other frames.

    Perhaps what I am noticing is the difference between a suspension corrected versus non-corrected frame? I am open to input here because I simply can't believe how dramatic the difference is with this bike.

    I have never had a non-corrected frame before, and am open to anyone's thoughts...

    It is such a random fluke that I even own this thing. My curiosity was stimulated from a very short parking lot demo on Aqua's frame that I got in October. I was impressed enough from 1 minute on his bike to want to try it for myself. Without that brief demo ride I never would have ordered a Jones in the first place (seriously, I have enough bikes). I would probably still be riding in ignorant bliss.

    There is also no way I would spend the money for a custom Jones. Simply too much $$ for my taste (not to mention the wait and the closed waiting list!). When I heard about the Taiwan deal, I figured the price was fair enough and snapped one up.

    The Jones is a laser focused rigid "All Mountain" bike. I wanted to poo poo it as an exercise in marketing/swoopiness over substance (seriously, I bought it to test with every intention of not liking it and reselling it again fairly fast). Unfortunately I am completely impressed with the way it rides. I have never ridden a rigid bike that rides as well.

    Downsides so far: It's a bit heavy, 27.2 seat tube won't accept my 5" dropper post, the frame can never use a suspension fork, the cockpit is a little tight standing, and a little long seated, the slack STA doesn't suit me much for seated riding, and the stays' minimum length is 16.9" (maybe 16.85"). It rides very firm and does not coddle you. I feel it rewards a more aggressive rider and comes more alive the harder it is pushed.

    For those waiting for their frames: Sucks to be you right now , but I think you will be very pleased as they arrive over the next month or so.
    Last edited by Enel; 02-16-2011 at 10:15 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

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    When I bought my Jones - it was a complete leap of faith - I'd never even ridden a 29er before

    When I spoke to Jeff - he explained the advantages of the truss fork - I was thinking that it can't make that much difference surely?

    Enel - you should try a fatty on it - adds a whole new dimension to the bike - you'll have two bikes for the price of 1! I love the way the Larry rolls over just about anything - after a few weeks on the Larry - I swap over to a 29er wheel and enjoy the extra speed and nimbleness that brings


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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    I don't think I can tell. Theoretically it should be a stronger, more durable wheel, but I can't remember the last time I killed a front.
    Do nicked sliders on a Marz 44 count as a "kill" from rock gouges? Arizona kills everything. You either get stung, spined, cooked, baked, or ground up on the rocks and minerals out there, it's rough country on equipment.

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    Enel, you're a curious fellow, but I like your testing methods.

    Basically zero chatter from the front end in terms of flex when you grab a big handful of front brake going down something fast and steep, is my take on the truss fork? Is any oscillation even noticeable under those conditions?


    Next question is, when are you going to tackle going down, I think it's trail #297 on the Jones? Before the rains? Looking forward to your report on how it feels on that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    Basically zero chatter from the front end in terms of flex when you grab a big handful of front brake going down something fast and steep, is my take on the truss fork? Is any oscillation even noticeable under those conditions?
    No chatter, no oscillation that is noticeable by me. I am sure it is there, but the frequency is high enough not to matter.

    It is sort of like going from a single crown to triple clamp suspension fork if you get my drift.

    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    Next question is, when are you going to tackle going down, I think it's trail #297 on the Jones?
    I went plenty fast down Munds Wagon chasing Aqua (who is hella fast!) and I have no concerns for its manners at speed. You do get a beating as the speeds increase though.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  53. #53
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    How tall are you Enel?
    For some reason I was thinking your ByStickel was non corrected....

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    Quote Originally Posted by SyT
    How tall are you Enel?
    For some reason I was thinking your ByStickel was non corrected....
    184cm.

    Bystickel is corrected, I just haven't bothered to put a suspension fork on it. That will change soon.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed
    where is the geo posted?

    I would like to know as well.

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    I got this question in another thread and thought it would be helpful to insert and elaborate on the answer here.

    Quote Originally Posted by edgerat
    E,
    Are the Stickel and Jones still different enough to not be compared? Kind of like a 9mm and a .40 cal, the same but, different, not better just, different?
    Thangew,
    Isaac
    Ha. More like a 9mm and a 1911

    Like a steak knife and a chef's knife.

    Or if you are a car guy: a Lotus Exige and a Porsch Cayman.

    I purposely took both bikes to Sedona to compare them and rode the Jones in the morning, and the By:Stickel in the afternoon. I only had about two hours on the Jones prior to this ride and maybe 60 hours on the By:Stickel. Imagine my surprise when I rode more comfortably and confidently in technical terrain, and at high speed on the Jones. It wasn't even close.

    This sort of move was no problem on the Jones, it would have scared me on the By:Stickel.

    <iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/20144731?title=0&amp;byline=0&amp;portrait=0&amp;c olor=ff9933" width="800" height="450" frameborder="0"></iframe>

    This move did scare me. Rideable, but scary/nervous. I was wishing I had the other bike at this moment.


    Photo cred: Aquaholic

    The difference between the bikes really bugged me, and I have been thinking a lot about the whys since that ride. The main issue was the incredible stability of the front end of the Jones. The By:Stickel in comparison felt like it bounced/flexed all over, couldn't get traction, and in general was not confidence inspiring at all in comparison. Steve thinks it is the fork and I am sure that is the biggest part of it.

    Since that ride, I swapped the rather flexy On-One Carbon for an 1100 gm no name steel fork. I had a very short comparison ride today and things are better. Ultimately, I do not think it is possible for the By:Stickel to have the same front rigidity as the Jones without being non-suspension corrected, with a 135 spaced front wheel, and a truss fork. The only thing that would do it would be a 1400 gm dirt-jumpable 29" suspension corrected fork (which does not exist to my knowledge). I am thinking of trying a Niner Carbon fork, but the investment is steep, especially since I don't know if it will help hugely.

    Ultimately, the By:Stickel will likely end up with a 100mm tapered suspension fork. It is probably done as my rigid technical bike.

    Riding them back to back, the Jones feels much heavier (same weight for both), but somewhat unflappable, like riding a tank. Stiff and controllable, but on the harsh side. The By:Stickel feels significantly lighter and more playful, but less competent/confident when things get serious. I need to get some more back to back rides on them, because I am sure there is such a thing as too rigid up front and the Jones is approaching that point for me. Perhaps with the steel fork the By:Stickel will be that magic combination of comfort and control. If I had a super long ride on more mellow trails, I would take the By:Stickel for sure. It fits me perfectly.

    Anyway, the strong/stiff front end of the Jones makes moves like this go from a bit terrifying to actually fun.



    That rock proceeds to straight vertical, and then after a bit of a free fall into a 1/4 pipe G-out. It is not hard, you just need to commit, hang on, and hope nothing breaks off the front end. I have done it on many bikes, but it always gave me a bit of pause when I hit it rigid. Honestly it scared me. I hit it three times today and found it more exhilarating than scary. When it counts, I prefer the stiffness up front.

    <iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/20228693?title=0&amp;byline=0&amp;portrait=0&amp;c olor=ff9933" width="800" height="600" frameborder="0"></iframe>
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  57. #57
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    Hey Enel, that some impressive riding and your Jones is certainly nice, too.
    But why did you decide against the H-Bar? I have a Loop-Bar on my Spaceframe and I feel it is an integral part of the whole Jones-Package.

  58. #58
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    Just a note: a 9mm is a caliber, 1911 a model. But I'm guessing you probably knew that.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyT
    Just a note: a 9mm is a caliber, 1911 a model. But I'm guessing you probably knew that.
    Stupid me, I used 1911 synonymously with .45, but if I think about it, that of course isn't true.

    Thanks for the correction.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Britney Spears
    Hey Enel, that some impressive riding and your Jones is certainly nice, too.
    But why did you decide against the H-Bar? I have a Loop-Bar on my Spaceframe and I feel it is an integral part of the whole Jones-Package.
    Tried it, didn't like it, wrote it up and converted to traditional bars four years ago and have never looked back.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    Tried it, didn't like it, wrote it up and converted to traditional bars four years ago and have never looked back.
    Thanks for your answer! Your post in that thread is certainly interesting to read.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel

    Since that ride, I swapped the rather flexy On-One Carbon for an 1100 gm no name steel fork. I had a very short comparison ride today and things are better.

    ... I need to get some more back to back rides on them...... Perhaps with the steel fork the By:Stickel will be that magic combination of comfort and control.
    I got a very nice, long back to back rock crawling session yesterday on both bikes.

    Steve was right, the On-One fork was causing a lot of my annoyance, pretty much all of it actually

    The Stickel is much better with the steel 1100gm Zion fork.

    If I were to grade forks it would go like this:

    On-One: Not stiff enough.
    Zion: Adequately stiff.
    Jones: More than stiff enough.





    After yesterday's ride, I am hard pressed to say which bike I prefer more in this type of terrain. There was no clear winner as far as the frame fork combo was concerned and I found my self more distracted by the ancient, crappy pedals I have on the Jones, and the front tire of the Stickel.

    The Jones and Stickel rode comparably, with neither bike having a great advantage over the other. They had their little quirks, but nothing really annoying, or outstandingly better than the other. The Stickel was more compliant, the Jones was stiffer....preferences, but both within tolerable limits. I would say the same about the geometry, both are within the limits of what I would call a great handling bike. Slight differences, easily compensated for.

    The FR4 tire on the front of the Stickel really sucks on rocks. I do not like it and can't really recommend it. The FR3 blows it away in the grip department. I am moving the FR3 from the back of the Jones to the front of the Stickel.

    I think I can explain my Sedona annoyances at this point due to flexy fork and crappy front tire that I only noticed in comparison to an excellent tire and super stiff chassis.

    I look forward to getting them back to back on something higher speed, but everything is pretty muddy right now and will be for a while.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  63. #63
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    Cool, I figured that fork was the main hindrance. It's a great rigid fork for XC duties, just not up to par for your needs though!

    I think a custom steel fork with thru axle would be the best thing for you. The Zion fork is still in the compliant list IMO. I think the only production forks up for your needs are the Monocog fork(not flight), KM fork, and possibly the steel On One fork.
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrousjunky
    Cool, I figured that fork was the main hindrance. It's a great rigid fork for XC duties, just not up to par for your needs though!

    I think a custom steel fork with thru axle would be the best thing for you. The Zion fork is still in the compliant list IMO. I think the only production forks up for your needs are the Monocog fork(not flight), KM fork, and possibly the steel On One fork.
    Yeah, I am not up to speed on rigid forks for the most part. I have tried the KM, Zion, Carbon White Bros, Carbon On-One, and steel Soul Cycles.

    I hated the handling of the Soul for for some reason (485 A-C maybe?). Everything else was tolerable.

    I still need to try the Stickel with a suspension fork The Jones fills my need for a rigid play bike just fine and it can't take suspension. The bikes are so comparable, I don't really need them both filling this same niche. Anyway, I needed to get it settled in my mind that the issue was the fork, not the frame and I think I have done that adequately at this point.

    My apologies to Steve for doubting him.

    The nice thing about the Jones (or the bad thing) is that it comes as a system: Frame fork, wheel (and some would add bars). As such, you get what you get and it is pretty hard to screw up with component choices. It is well thought out and, if you fit it, it is an extremely nice riding rigid bike.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  65. #65
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    I would highly recommend the Salsa Enabler


  66. #66
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    Yea!

    Great news. Thanks, Eric.

    (this leaves me 2-0-1 , not too shabby (; )

  67. #67
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    First ride today

    Finally here! Can't wait to test it on today's night ride.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails &quot;Tai&quot;-Jones-img_8226-1.jpg  


  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by simen
    Finally here! Can't wait to test it on today's night ride.

    Ooooo, shiny! Enjoy and report back
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  69. #69
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    Enel, have you anytime on the spaceframe? If so, would you compare the two (Jones frames) for those of us that most likely will not?

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyT
    Enel, have you anytime on the spaceframe? If so, would you compare the two (Jones frames) for those of us that most likely will not?
    Nope, just bounced on Aqua's a little.

    The space frame does have a nice little carrying handle just forward of the seatpost.

    I don't buy all that mumbo jumbo about curved tubes being vertically compliant, laterally stiff, blah, blah, blah, but have no basis for the opinion other than bias.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  71. #71
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    Breeding like rabbits

    The Stones (Tai Steel Diamond) is a great riding steel bike.
    The Mones (Merlin Ti Spaceframe) really transcends what a rigid bike is, it's that good.

    So what is the take away, steel as a material is stiffer and heavier than Ti (gasp) and the diamond frame is not as compliant as the spaceframe (double gasp) but it is a great steel bike and I plan to ride it a lot and have a lot of fun on it.

    Enel, in addition to being a carrying handle it also serves as a great seat (sideways not straddle...).

    Get one, or three!
    -Jason

    Ugh picture upload fail (mods, pics with ? can be deleted)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails &quot;Tai&quot;-Jones-untitled-2.jpg  

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    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Allroy; 03-08-2011 at 05:38 PM. Reason: Main picture didn't get uploaded

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    Stupid me, I used 1911 synonymously with .45, but if I think about it, that of course isn't true.

    Thanks for the correction.
    Pretty much a given, if you know a little history about the 45, the Colt 1911 in 45 ACP, is what started it all, semi automatic pistols.

    No worries, I knew what you meant. Now if you'd said kind of like comparing a Luger to a 1911... well, it's pretty clear which design, 100 years later, is still in production.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by simen
    Finally here! Can't wait to test it on today's night ride.
    This production steel space frame is the version I want to hear a ride review of.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATXSS
    This production steel space frame is the version I want to hear a ride review of.
    me 3

  75. #75
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    Right, so I have finally got around to sorting out an account so I can post a ride review of the production steel Spaceframe. The summary of this is that it's a very fun bike, and I'm very happy with it.

    My bike is set up geared, with a fat front tyre and H-bars. It weighs about 29 pounds-though it does not feel heavy to ride, if this makes sense. I would echo the other comments about the stiffness of the frame and fork-though this does not translate into a harsh ride. I would say that the overall ride is as comfortable as other good steel bikes that I have tried (one example being a Cotic Soul). I spent a fair amount of time on it at Rotorua last weekend, and though I had to go a bit slower than I would have on my usual full suspension bike, I wasn't much more fatigued/sore than I would have been otherwise.

    Where this bike has really impressed me is its ability in technical trails (or at least the technical sections that I have found so far)-it's extremely confidence inspiring and handles very precisely, as Aqua and Enel have said. I would describe the handling as being both stable, yet highly maneuverable. Not sluggish, and certainly not twitchy. This is, however, the only rigid mountain bike that I have spent any significant time on-I would say that the fat front tyre definitely works well as a form of suspension-I have been running mine at around 7 psi, 9 is a bit harsh.

  76. #76
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    Probably nothin new but here it goes: my bike is around 11.5kgs with RaRa on Gordos, Hope X2 brakes. That's 2.5kgs more than my previous bike (One9) but I can honesty say I didn't notice the weight difference. It took about 3sec to feel comfortable on this bike, I wasn't used to higher bar position but no problems here. Cr-Mo frame defintely felt more 'alive', rear end takes out small bumps but don't expect suspension-like function. I guess Eriksen seatpost has something to do with it, too. Truss fork tracks great and precise but not harsh. I try to understand the difference between Ti and Cr-Mo like different windsurfing masts act: more carbon % and the reflex is faster- at the same stiffness as lower carbon % mast. That's why I'd love to have a Ti truss in front and frame (not that I'm complaining now).
    Otherwise the ride was fast, quiet, Bushnell works perfect. I have to get used to J-bar. It was comfortable but I felt like I have to use other muscles in my torso while climbing. It'll stay on for a while, probably it's just me because this was my first SS ride in months. I'll also try 80mm stem (now 90mm) and Salsa 17deg flat bar just to experiment some more.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails &quot;Tai&quot;-Jones-img_8227-1.jpg  

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  77. #77
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    Any more thoughts on these diamond frames or on the unicrown forks? I've got them on order. Parts are starting to arrive this week, frame should be next week. I went with the fat front. The wait is just about killing me!

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    Me Too!!

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    i think the Jones bike will always have a love-hate relationship with the public because of the price he set them....many would always say for his price you can get better from other builders, with watever shapes and geo you want...

    If that's the case then go with it, buy others....but if you think that you like wat you see in his design and willing to forgo the fact it is on the high side of moolah, then I think his bikes ride great...

    I have his Mones and i like it a lot....and the black beauty of the steel is very nice too...

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojak
    i think the Jones bike will always have a love-hate relationship with the public because of the price he set them....many would always say for his price you can get better from other builders, with watever shapes and geo you want...

    If that's the case then go with it, buy others....but if you think that you like wat you see in his design and willing to forgo the fact it is on the high side of moolah, then I think his bikes ride great...

    I have his Mones and i like it a lot....and the black beauty of the steel is very nice too...

    True , true, true.... so tis ah next project for u??
    Time Doesn't Wait for No One, Have A Nice Day!!!

  81. #81
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    has anyone tried to race the space frame in either Steel or Ti version, whats it like climbing with gears?

  82. #82
    agu
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    Quote Originally Posted by maman72
    True , true, true.... so tis ah next project for u??
    I think Razak is going baaa...baaa

    hehe

    I wouldn't mind a steel diamond Jones myself, actually!

    Whether it's built by Jeff Jones himself, Merlin, or by a factory in Taiwan - his frames are executions of his design and riding philosophy. He wants more people on more of his bikes, and going the Taiwan route helps him achieve that.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    Pretty much a given, if you know a little history about the 45, the Colt 1911 in 45 ACP, is what started it all, semi automatic pistols.

    No worries, I knew what you meant. Now if you'd said kind of like comparing a Luger to a 1911... well, it's pretty clear which design, 100 years later, is still in production.
    Holy crap, thats not even close to correct.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  84. #84
    SyT
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Holy crap, thats not even close to correct.
    I know. I wasn't willing to pursue it in a bicycle thread however. I had done enough damage as it was.

  85. #85
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    Go ahead...
    Myself, I would'nt mind being edumacated about firearms history...

  86. #86
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    Our trails have dried out and I think I have enough time on this bike to give my honest opinion:

    The only change I have made from previous set up is lower gearing by 10%.

    I have ridden it on mild, moderately fast, swoopy, loose singletrack.

    I have ridden it on the most technical, slow speed trialsy rock crawling stuff we have in these parts.

    The handling is spot on in tight, slow switchbacks, and spun out cornering on gravel.

    This is the best rigid bike I have ever ridden. Period. Ultimately, for me, the important thing about a bike is that is sort of disappears under me. It should do what I want, the way I want, without a lot of monkeying around on my part. It should bring a smile to my face. It should not have characteristics that annoy me. At the end of the ride, I should want to call all my friends and proclaim: "I love riding this machine!"

    I have had several bikes that treat me that way: Lenz Behemoth and Milk Money for example, but never a rigid that had the certain something I was looking for...until now.

    I highly recommend this bike if it fits you.

    Build notes:

    Jones diamond frame and truss fork
    Front Speedway 135 hub, rear SS King laced to Flows by Mikesee
    Bontrager FR-3 tires
    Mr. Whirly cranks 31X21 gearing (Surly SS cog)
    Gravity Dropper 4" Turbo
    Koobi saddle
    Azonic World Force Bars
    Thomson 50mm stem (to be replaced by Syntace Superforce 60mm some time)
    Avid BB7 mechanical brakes 180f/160r

    I will update in the future, but at this point I don't ever see selling this thing or really changing much of anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  87. #87
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    Agreed with the above, I love my Jones 24" diamond ti.
    I wish someone could build a 29er full suspension bike that felt and fit as good as my Jones.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    I will update in the future, but at this point I don't ever see selling this thing or really changing much of anything.
    Pretty glowing review. I hope I like mine as much. I have the fat front with unicrown fork though until June or something when I hope to get the Ti truss. I still don't have mine together yet though!

  89. #89
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    But then we would have the hassle of maintaining all the moving parts while we Jonesriders don't!
    Ridin ridin ridin..... raw ti!

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding
    Pretty glowing review. I hope I like mine as much. I have the fat front with unicrown fork though until June or something when I hope to get the Ti truss. I still don't have mine together yet though!
    I've got a diamond frame with the unicrown and fat front coming too. Just waiting for Jeff to build the front wheel and send everything out. I have all the other parts sitting in a box, and I can hardly stand the wait!! It doesn't help that whenever I call, Jeff gets me even more excited about it!

    What wheel/tire are you going with in the rear?

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozmosis
    I've got a diamond frame with the unicrown and fat front coming too.
    What made you go with the unicrown instead of the truss fork...?

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by rasse1977
    What made you go with the unicrown instead of the truss fork...?
    Budget.

    I got a bonus this year, and was given the green light to purchase a bike. I did not want to affect our monthly budget with this purchase, so I had a budget of about $2100. I was initially going to build a Kona Big Unit with a Niner carbon fork. But once I realized that the steel Jones/unicrown could be within my budget, I started to reconsider.

    There were several factors to consider:
    The Jones is $750 frame/fork, but requires a new wheel using a special hub and rim
    The Kona/Niner would be about $1000 frame/fork, but I could use my existing XT/Gordo wheelset
    Fat front vs. standard 29er
    Steel vs. Aluminum
    EBB vs. Sliders
    Suspension-corrected vs. Non-corrected
    Heavy vs. Light

    I've been interested in the fat front idea for a while, and am committed to riding a rigid/ss. The phone call with Jeff sealed the deal.

    I'll be able to use my XT/Gordo rear with the fattest 29er tires available, and should be able to sell my XT/Gordo front without too much trouble, I would think.

    Excited doesn't even begin to describe...

  93. #93
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    The fat front is great - you'll love it

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    Quote Originally Posted by agu
    I think Razak is going baaa...baaa

    hehe

    I wouldn't mind a steel diamond Jones myself, actually!

    Whether it's built by Jeff Jones himself, Merlin, or by a factory in Taiwan - his frames are executions of his design and riding philosophy. He wants more people on more of his bikes, and going the Taiwan route helps him achieve that.
    agu, dat guy, dat maman72 is the one going baa baa...his sheep will line up besides my Mones next month...

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by wannabeRacer
    has anyone tried to race the space frame in either Steel or Ti version, whats it like climbing with gears?
    +1.

    Also, I'm looking at the Diamond but admittedly would love the ti Truss. Is this a XC racer in anyway, worried about the weight and climbing ability, especially seated climbs? I'll never run a fatty on the front, never doing big drops or rocky technical, and it'll be a SS. I'm on the east coast in Chattanooga area, with flowing singletrack, some technical and rocks, but mostly just deciduous/pine laden mountain tops. Not out west on the submarine or chicken rock trails, so any thoughts about riding here? Also, did I read that correctly that the standard fork requires a special hub setup?
    ti Nuke Proof SS
    ti Moots Mooto X YBB

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by signalMTB
    Also, did I read that correctly that the standard fork requires a special hub setup?
    Yes, it requires a 135mm wide front hub. Jones makes one, Paul makes one, and I think Phil Wood makes one. Check it out here

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozmosis
    I've got a diamond frame with the unicrown and fat front coming too. Just waiting for Jeff to build the front wheel and send everything out. I have all the other parts sitting in a box, and I can hardly stand the wait!! It doesn't help that whenever I call, Jeff gets me even more excited about it!

    What wheel/tire are you going with in the rear?
    For now I'll use an old one I haven't used in a long while. I think it's a Flow rim and Hope hub. I'm going to run it 1x9 with a 36th cassette and probably a 28th ring.

    Congrats on your purchase.

  98. #98
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wannabeRacer
    has anyone tried to race the space frame in either Steel or Ti version, whats it like climbing with gears?
    +1.

    Also, I'm looking at the Diamond but admittedly would love the ti Truss. Is this a XC racer in anyway, worried about the weight and climbing ability, especially seated climbs? I'll never run a fatty on the front, never doing big drops or rocky technical, and it'll be a SS. I'm on the east coast in Chattanooga area, with flowing singletrack, some technical and rocks, but mostly just deciduous/pine laden mountain tops. Not out west on the submarine or chicken rock trails, so any thoughts about riding here? Also, did I read that correctly that the standard fork requires a special hub setup?
    I haven't tried to race mine-but it does climb very well, which is what I'd expect since it's a rigid bike :P Put this way, it's no worse than any of the other bikes that I consider to be somewhat comparable (cotic soul, various stumpjumpers) My spaceframe is set up geared, with the fat front wheel, it weighs around 30 pounds-to use a cliche, it feels a lot lighter than it is to ride. I could take a lot of weight off the bike by using a normal front wheel and lighter tyres, probably about 4-5 pounds...

  99. #99
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    its fine to race. by and large racing means lots of effort, and that often means you stand to climb. i s'pose in the states you'll have longer hills so may need to sit for some, but the rearward weight bias is good in that it alternates muscle group use between sitting and standing pedaling.

    the only issue i have had racing the jones for long (10-12 hour) races is if the courses are ultra hard and bumpy, in which case the rigidity of the truss fork can lead to a bit of beating you up, otherwise its a great bike to race on.

    go to it!

  100. #100
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    Even Gramps likes the ride





    I got to assemble a bud's spaceframe/truss fork tonight. He also got JJ's trick BB7 set up. It is a very unique and thoughtful design. Nokon wrapped in shrink wrap connected to custom bent tubing of some sort. Absolutely sealed, and very compression resistant. This was coupled to XTR brake levers.



















    He got pretty much the entire Jones package with the H-bars, etc. We left the steerer pretty high until he is certain about bar height.

    He has not had a new bike in a long time and he was pretty tickled, riding around with a huge grin on his face. Just riding in the driveway, I could not tell any difference between my diamond and the spaceframe.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

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