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Thread: "Tai"-Jones

  1. #301
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    Dammit. This newly refined frame (in red, no less!) has me Jones-ing again. I'm already considering racing a rigid fork for my next 100 miler. If only I can put together the cash to do the frameset and a 135 front hub before the framesets sell out...

    Los
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  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by sslos View Post
    Dammit. This newly refined frame (in red, no less!) has me Jones-ing again. I'm already considering racing a rigid fork for my next 100 miler. If only I can put together the cash to do the frameset and a 135 front hub before the framesets sell out...

    Los
    Almost makes me wish I would have waited a few more weeks before buying, but it looks like the price jumped a $100 from before.

    There is a pretty sweet Jones/King wheelset in the classifieds. I also have an extra Paul WHUB that's been sitting around. I was going to build up a fat front, but with the Knard tire up front, I'm not sure if I'll need it.

  3. #303
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    I wonder if my frame is part of the latest "lighter" batch. Never got to weigh it as I was too excited to build it up!

  4. #304
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    It looks like it is with those water bottle/mud guard mounts underneath the down tube near the head tube. I'm jealous. I'd like to have the mud guard mounts.

  5. #305
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    Did you all see the latest tease on Jeff's blog? Looks like he's prototyping a bike with something cool going on out back. Anybody got any guesses based on the couple of pics?

    Jones Bikes | Blog

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    Did you all see the latest tease on Jeff's blog? Looks like he's prototyping a bike with something cool going on out back. Anybody got any guesses based on the couple of pics?

    Jones Bikes | Blog
    knard in rear. Fat 29er.

    Quote Originally Posted by ppfeifer View Post
    It looks like it is with those water bottle/mud guard mounts underneath the down tube near the head tube. I'm jealous. I'd like to have the mud guard mounts.
    I have those on my older model diamond as well.
    Try this: HTFU

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    knard in rear. Fat 29er.
    And just when I thought I was done buying new bikes. Let's see how long it takes to come to market.

    How to explain to the wife that you need to replace your bike with the exact same bike...only different? She's still is looking at me funny over the Rabbit Hole I just had built up.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    And just when I thought I was done buying new bikes. Let's see how long it takes to come to market...
    I thought it was just lighter. If the RH/Knard fits in the new frames, I'm going to be a little ticked! Just bought my frame a couple of months ago. Oh, well. I told myself I was going to get a Spaceframe either later this season or next year anyway. Hopefully, Jeff will make those Knardable.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by stremf View Post
    I thought it was just lighter. If the RH/Knard fits in the new frames, I'm going to be a little ticked! Just bought my frame a couple of months ago. Oh, well. I told myself I was going to get a Spaceframe either later this season or next year anyway. Hopefully, Jeff will make those Knardable.
    No no. Jeff is riding a prototype frame. Not the new one, though the new one is said to have a little more room out back I doubt it will fit the Knard. It looks to me like he is working on a frame that will easily fit the RH/Knard out back--and whatever else new wide 29er tires that come along. But it's in the prototype stage. Who knows how long before it will be available to buyers.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    No no. Jeff is riding a prototype frame. Not the new one, though the new one is said to have a little more room out back I doubt it will fit the Knard. It looks to me like he is working on a frame that will easily fit the RH/Knard out back--and whatever else new wide 29er tires that come along. But it's in the prototype stage. Who knows how long before it will be available to buyers.
    Ohh, oops! I didn't even check your link, because I assumed it was the 2/15 entry you were talking about. D'oh! Looks like that prototype is a spaceframe? (Judging by the split top tube you can see).

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    And just when I thought I was done buying new bikes. Let's see how long it takes to come to market.

    How to explain to the wife that you need to replace your bike with the exact same bike...only different? She's still is looking at me funny over the Rabbit Hole I just had built up.
    I am lucky and cursed at the same time. My wife doesn't question any of my bike purchases. Compared to the cost of maintaining her aircraft, my bike purchases are a mere blimp on the CC.

    Just looked at the CC - looks like Ramen tonight for dinner .
    Last edited by Tripower; 02-22-2013 at 06:16 AM.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    Anybody got any guesses based on the couple of pics?
    Seems logical to me. Fat 29 is here to stay.

    FWIW, I rode my Knard 29 / Rabbit Hole for the first time today. Up until now I've been riding my Jones diamond frame/truss fork with a Knard 26 / Marge Lite combo. Being a long term 29er guy, my Jones felt very strange with the 26 front. Don't get me wrong, it was really fun but the 29 Knard felt more "natural". It was also significantly more nimble with the Knard 29; even though, the difference in wheel weights is only 500g (approx 1 pound).

    29er - 2550 g
    Knard 29X3 120 tpi
    Surly Rabbit Hole
    Paul WHUB
    DT Comp with alum nips
    Ghetto tubeless with Surly rim strip, 1 wrap of pipe insulation, 1 wrap of duct tape, 24 x 2.3 Q tube and 3 cups of Stans
    SLX 180mm Rotor
    "Tai"-Jones-knard-29-front.jpg

    26er- 3070g
    Knard 26X3.8 120 tpi
    Surly Marge Lite
    Paul WHUB
    DT Comp with alum nips
    Ghetto tubeless with Surly rim strip, 2 wraps of pipe insulation, 2 wraps of duct tape, 20 x 2.3 Q tube and 3 cups of Stans
    "Tai"-Jones-image.jpg

    Comparison of the two set ups:
    -Rolling resistance for the 29 is MUCH less than the 26.
    -The Knard 29's (13 psi tubeless) traction is very good relative to "normal" 29 tires I've ridden; however, it doesn't come close to the grip of the 26 (10 psi tubeless).
    -The 29's shock absorption is also much less than the 26.
    -The 26 fat front really shines in turns and descents. It feels spirited and lively. Climbing is another story altogether. Momentum is everything with the 26. When you attack hills the 26 feels OK, but when you loose momentum you're f*%&ed. In my limited experience, it's very difficult to accelerate up a hill with the 26. I didn't have that feeling with the 29 today. This feeling could be associated to the contact patch of a 29 compared to a 26 OR it could be in my head. Either way, my Jones felt kinda like pushing a wheelbarrow up a hill with my loop bars and 26 front.
    -The 26 has a much more substantial side wall than the 29.
    -The 26 is wearing quicker than normal tires. I think the 29 will too.

    I imagine lots of people are interested in trying both setups, but don't want to spend the $ experimenting. My recommendation after riding both is- I think XC riders will be happier with the 29. I'm not an AM guy so I can't speak for y'all.

    Even though I'll likely ride the 29 version more often, that doesn't mean that my Knard 26 will sit in the corner of my workshop collecting dust. I think the 26 will see many more miles. Then again, I may be trying to make myself feel better about spending a ton of money on a wheel that doesn't really match my style of riding.
    Last edited by ppfeifer; 02-21-2013 at 08:10 PM.

  13. #313
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    ppfeifer, did you have to adjust/add/remove spacers to account for changes in wheel diameter? The Rabbit Hole should have raised your front end a bit. Don't know how that will change the feel of the cockpit and where a rider like handlebar height. I'm making the exact same change to my bike in the next day or two, so I figured I'd ask.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    ppfeifer, did you have to adjust/add/remove spacers to account for changes in wheel diameter? The Rabbit Hole should have raised your front end a bit. Don't know how that will change the feel of the cockpit and where a rider like handlebar height. I'm making the exact same change to my bike in the next day or two, so I figured I'd ask.
    Yes, the front end is too high and I need to swap some spacers around. Right now I have a 15mm spacer under the stem. I'll try a 5mm spacer next. IMO, a 10mm (almost 1/2 in) adjustment is a good starting point.

    Hope this helps. Enjoy your new setup.

  15. #315
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    What are your bikes weighing in at? Just swapped a 27TPI Knard (29x3) and added a 2.4 Ardent out back. It WAS at 27lbs before. I think I'm up to 30lbs easy now. She's a hefty sucker. I geared down to 32x21 to compensate for the porky rear tire, too. Hope she feels lighter on the trails.

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by stremf View Post
    What are your bikes weighing in at?.
    Mine hovers between 25-27lbs depending on tire choice. Widest tire I have is a 830g 2.4 Vee Rubber Mission. Narrowest is a 750g 2.35Vee Rubber Flying V. Have a pair of 2.4 RaRas for err...racing.

    Rims are P35s, and running it singlespeed

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by ppfeifer View Post
    I imagine lots of people are interested in trying both setups, but don't want to spend the $ experimenting. My recommendation after riding both is- I think XC riders will be happier with the 29. I'm not an AM guy so I can't speak for y'all.

    Even though I'll likely ride the 29 version more often, that doesn't mean that my Knard 26 will sit in the corner of my workshop collecting dust. I think the 26 will see many more miles. Then again, I may be trying to make myself feel better about spending a ton of money on a wheel that doesn't really match my style of riding.
    I just spent $600+ bucks on a 100mm 26" rim and 3.8 Knard (who's bead I'm not sure it right). So I know what you mean. I think I should have gone the 29+ route with the RH rim, and I'm kicking myself a bit (okay a lot). I do love the grip and cornering confidence of the fat 26 though...
    Last edited by Wish I Were Riding; 02-28-2013 at 07:36 AM.

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by stremf View Post
    What are your bikes weighing in at? Just swapped a 27TPI Knard (29x3) and added a 2.4 Ardent out back. It WAS at 27lbs before. I think I'm up to 30lbs easy now. She's a hefty sucker. I geared down to 32x21 to compensate for the porky rear tire, too. Hope she feels lighter on the trails.
    IME the 27TPI Surly tires roll poorly due to their stiff construction. If you aren't loving it consider swapping in the 120TPI version.
    Safe riding,

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  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    IME the 27TPI Surly tires roll poorly due to their stiff construction. If you aren't loving it consider swapping in the 120TPI version.
    Yeah, I'm going to see how it does once the trails clear up. When I ordered, the shop didn't have any 120TPI's in, so my choice was by default.

    BTW, rest of my bike set up is P35/Blunt-Paul/Hope F/R, XTR/BB7, Alu Loop Bar, M760 cranks and Surly cog. Haven't had a bike this hefty since the old Monocog 29er days!

  20. #320
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    Mine weighs 30.5 with uma 50mm rims knard 27tpi and an ardent. 1x9 and a dropper post.And it rides really slow and heavy but im ok with that.

  21. #321
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    My fat 29 setup weighs in at 28.1 pounds while my fat 26 weighs 29.4.

  22. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding View Post
    I just spent $600+ bucks on a 100mm 26" rim and 3.8 Knard (who's bead I'm not sure it right). So I know what you mean. I think I should have gone the 29+ route with the RH rim, and I'm kicking myself a bit (okay a lot). I do love the grip and cornering confidence of the fat 26 though...
    I bought my Jones, and it came with a 26 rim only--the Jones sold 50mm rim that is advertised at 660 grams. I bought a Husker Du that weighed 1150 grams. I rode for a year, and kept telling myself I needed the 29er rim. I just bought a Rabbit Hole/Knard. I only have one ride, so impressions are limited. I ride through a lot of root gardens. The real fat tire really inspires confidence with all the camber/directional changes. Plus the stability and slower steering I've come accustomed to. I haven't got confidence in the Knard yet because my conditions are very slippery. BTW, the Knard seems little teeny tiny compared to true fat. My first ride was hesitant. The steering on the RH is definitely faster, and the bike spins up quicker. However, on my local trails, this feature is not a high priority. I'm a slow plodder. A root crawler. Climbs are short and punchy anyways. My bb did come up on the Rabbit Hole, so I'm adjusting to that as well. I may end up prefering my original fat front, but I need to put lots of miles on the RH/Knard before making that decision. I think I agree that if I were climbing long distances, and riding more XC, I'd definitely want the 29er out front. But for my daily riding, the fat-fronted Jones may be ideal. Maybe I'll ride the RH/Knard in the dry season, and the fat front in the wet season. Wish I Were Riding, I'd consider a Husker Du once you need a new tire. I have nothing buy great things to say about it. Light. Good grip. Fast Rolling.

    Oh, and my bike weighed in around 31 pounds with the fat front. Not sure where it's at with the Knard, but I don't think I lost but 200 grams in the switch. I don't know if it's just me, but this bike isn't the kind I'd be concerned about weight with, at least with what I need from the bike. I think this bike has got to weigh what it's going to weigh to do the job you're asking of it. It'll never be light. And getting it down to 25 pounds would make it a very different bike than what I need. Oh, and I'm a fat clyde too, so burly is king.

  23. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by stremf View Post
    Almost makes me wish I would have waited a few more weeks before buying, but it looks like the price jumped a $100 from before.
    And from the blog, "The new steel Diamond frame is 0.4 pounds (about 180 grams lighter) than the older (Merlin made) version."

    I read that as the diamond frame isn't now lighter that the recent Tai frames, just lighter than the pre-Taiwan move design. Has anyone confirmed with Jeff? The DT fender bosses appear on some and not others, my bike hasn't got them but other earlier + newer bikes have.

  24. #324
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    Got my Jones!

    The good news: Jeff finished a month ahead of when he said he would complete my bike.

    The bad news: I'm experiencing a 4 year due cold that has put my ass for the last week. I rode my baby around for 30 minutes on the street and now I am totally wiped out and coughing up all sorts of interesting colored liquids. Fingers crossed I am ready to roll this weekend.

    I've still got to dial in the brakes, saddle (thinking about ditching the Brooks), and tire pressure. I'm sure I'll need a few weeks of real riding to feel natural on the bike. One thing that did surprise me: I went off a curb in front of my house, and the back end came up so much I felt like I was going to fly to the moon. The bike feels incredibly agile, even with the fat tires (which are a real trip to watch while I am riding). The seat really feels, like, in the way. You guys know what I mean? I feel like I can't get low enough on the bike- but I'm just on the street and in a fog of Sinus Typhoon Rage so it could just be my current state of mind.

    Expensive bathroom scale says it weighs 30.4 pounds.

    My favorite color is orange. Jeff did a great job putting it together. I'll update after this weekend.















    Last edited by michaelscott; 03-05-2013 at 09:20 PM.

  25. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    I may end up prefering my original fat front, but I need to put lots of miles on the RH/Knard before making that decision. I think I agree that if I were climbing long distances, and riding more XC, I'd definitely want the 29er out front. But for my daily riding, the fat-fronted Jones may be ideal. Maybe I'll ride the RH/Knard in the dry season, and the fat front in the wet season. Wish I Were Riding, I'd consider a Husker Du once you need a new tire. I have nothing buy great things to say about it. Light. Good grip. Fast Rolling.
    Well keep me posted. I think I probably need the 29+, accept it would be more rigid than I've gotten used to and have less grip in the corners?

  26. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding View Post
    Well keep me posted. I think I probably need the 29+, accept it would be more rigid than I've gotten used to and have less grip in the corners?
    You will loose cush. I can tell you that after one ride. I'm pretty sure traction will dramatically decrease, but I haven't gotten enough time on the RH/Knard to be fair. Plus, traction is my number one goal from a tire, so keep in mind that mine is probably an extreme outlier. Bike also feels a bit squirrelly on the RH, in part because I gained almost an inch in front wheel diameter from the 26 fat front, plus the contact patch changes, but I may adapt to that and end up seeing it as quick handling/nimbleness. I'll report back if my mind changes dramatically.

  27. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    You will loose cush. I can tell you that after one ride. I'm pretty sure traction will dramatically decrease, but I haven't gotten enough time on the RH/Knard to be fair. Plus, traction is my number one goal from a tire, so keep in mind that mine is probably an extreme outlier. Bike also feels a bit squirrelly on the RH, in part because I gained almost an inch in front wheel diameter from the 26 fat front, plus the contact patch changes, but I may adapt to that and end up seeing it as quick handling/nimbleness. I'll report back if my mind changes dramatically.
    If it does, maybe we should swap wheels. I think you would like my 100mm rim.

  28. #328
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    all this while has anyone thought of using a drop bar on the diamond frame? like the Ragley Luxy or WTB Woodchipper? anyone tried it before?

  29. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojak View Post
    all this while has anyone thought of using a drop bar on the diamond frame? like the Ragley Luxy or WTB Woodchipper? anyone tried it before?
    sorry too busy riding the Jones with the old H-Bar!

    and I don't think my Rawland will want to lend its Midge either hehehe

    But it looks like it could work...might cancel out the rear-weight bias of the Jones geometry though

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    Well the trails dried out enough to warrant putting on my Big Fat Larry last night - wow what a blast ! I've been using Nates and HUDUs all winter and more recently the 29er+ Knard. The Knard and BFLs are my favourite front tyres.. Right now

  31. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by agu View Post
    But it looks like it could work...might cancel out the rear-weight bias of the Jones geometry though
    The dirt drops should actually put the hand position at a relatively same position as any other bars. People that put on drop bars usually get a super high stem.

    If the Jones Loop bar doesn't work out, I probably won't get drops, but maybe try a flipped Mary bar or something like that.

    Bluestate - If you decide to sell that RH combo, I may be interested. I can already tell my P35/Knard is going to be my go-to combo.

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    Ha. Y'all are trying to get my RH/Knard. I spent $550 bucks on that wheel. I'm sure I'll find a way to justify the purchase.

  33. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    Ha. Y'all are trying to get my RH/Knard. I spent $550 bucks on that wheel. I'm sure I'll find a way to justify the purchase.
    Ouch, $550?? I bought my WHUB on ebay for $120, RH is $150, wheel build with spokes and nipples locally is $90, and Knard for $90-120. So $450-480.

  34. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by stremf View Post
    Ouch, $550?? I bought my WHUB on ebay for $120, RH is $150, wheel build with spokes and nipples locally is $90, and Knard for $90-120. So $450-480.
    More specifically, mine was $540. Yeah, still a chunk. I live rural, so no local wheel builder. I could have bought that Ebay Whub, but then I would have had to ship to builder. I suppose I could have bought the rim and tire separate and sent it to wheel builder too, but I did the math, and once you add shipping, I may have been able to save about $40. Instead, I didn't have to hassle, didn't have to add extra wait time for items to ship around, and I didn't insult the wheel builder by sourcing parts elsewhere. I weighed the pros and cons, and decided to go the way I did. In a perfect world, I'd know how to build a wheel as well as anybody, and I could have put the wheel together for around $400, give or take, using Universal's %15 off coupon.

  35. #335
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    Gotcha. Makes sense. In the grand scheme of things, you got what you wanted and probably waaaay too much into the bike than originally budgeted. (Like me).

  36. #336
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    I got my wheel from Jeff. $682 was the total for 100mm rim, 3.8 Knard tire, Surly tube, and shipping. And yes, I think I should have gotten the RH wheel even though my new wheel is great...

  37. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by stremf View Post
    Gotcha. Makes sense. In the grand scheme of things, you got what you wanted and probably waaaay too much into the bike than originally budgeted. (Like me).
    You know, if a person want to keep it thrifty, they could probably build the Diamond frame/fork up for around $2000. And that wouldn't be skimping too much on parts. Where things get expensive is wanting to trick the bike out with fat wheels, rims, tires, and maybe the Jones bars. It's hard to have a Rabbit Hole wheelset come in under $800 with the tires and everything. That's my way of saying that Jeff's bike itself is not so expensive, it's all the different cool things it can do that start adding up.

  38. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    You know, if a person want to keep it thrifty, they could probably build the Diamond frame/fork up for around $2000. And that wouldn't be skimping too much on parts. Where things get expensive is wanting to trick the bike out with fat wheels, rims, tires, and maybe the Jones bars. It's hard to have a Rabbit Hole wheelset come in under $800 with the tires and everything. That's my way of saying that Jeff's bike itself is not so expensive, it's all the different cool things it can do that start adding up.
    Yeah, isn't that true with any hobby? I always end up with those extra "must have" accessories.

  39. #339
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    I'm wondering if any of you have ridden a McClung? That bike has piqued my curiosity. I like the Jones and I'm leaning towards getting that Spaceframe, but now I'm thinking maybe I should keep the Diamond frame and get a McClung.

    I would appreciate any input on the ride quality differences between the two frames. In the end, I will *probabaly* go with the Jones, but I do like the shorter rear end of the McClung.

  40. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by stremf View Post
    I'm wondering if any of you have ridden a McClung? That bike has piqued my curiosity. I like the Jones and I'm leaning towards getting that Spaceframe, but now I'm thinking maybe I should keep the Diamond frame and get a McClung.

    I would appreciate any input on the ride quality differences between the two frames. In the end, I will *probabaly* go with the Jones, but I do like the shorter rear end of the McClung.
    Got a link? Are those bikes being built these days?

  41. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    Got a link? Are those bikes being built these days?
    You must not know much about Don McClung. I wouldn't be surprised if he still used a rotary phone. No website, no email--just call or mail (the paper USPS kind). I called and spoke to him, and liked what he had to say. He's thinking of full-on retirement soon, though...

    If you haven't seen this thread, it will keep you busy for a bit. I think I've read through it 3-4 times in the last few years...

    My new McClung

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    Cool bikes. I googled and most the recent information is pre-2008. I like old school.

  43. #343
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    Finally got over the flu and took the new bike out for a ride.

    I've never done this particular trail before and it was super sandy- which ended up being somewhat of a mixed blessing because I really got to test the bike out in sub par conditions. I'm going to need many more rides to get everything dialed in since the brakes are still squealing like a banshee and I haven't found the right combination of seat/seat setting to keep my feet from going numb.

    Here is what I got out of the first ride:

    1) Absolutely no frame flex any where. I never realized how much my old steel frame/fork bent under my Herculean strength when I was mashing up a hill. The Jones just took it and said "Is that all you got wuss? Why don't you put some muscle into it?" I'm not 100% back to full strength but I was mashing as hard as I could up some sandy hills at a good grade and the frame really felt awesome.

    2) I really like the rear end of the bike. My old bike had a pretty long frame but I always felt I had to ride this careful line between mashing too hard and spinning the wheel or not getting enough power to get up. Sometimes I felt like I had to use interesting body English to get up more challenging hills. The Jones feels like I could mash as hard as I want and the traction would be there. There was no slipping or sliding and I made one sandy hill in particular that I was pretty sure I would of had to walk up on my old bike.

    3) The fat front felt really nice in the sand. I took some turns pretty tight and besides one slip up that I counter steered to save myself, the bike steered through all of it. I really like the "munching" sound that the fat front makes when it tackles the road. Riding with big ass tires on big ass wheels really makes me feel like I am cheating. It doesn't even feel like a "rigid" bike anymore.

    4) I don't know how I feel about the ride position yet. I do feel way higher up than on my old bike. It almost felt like when I had gone from 26 to 29. I'll get used to it soon I imagine. Just need to figure the seat out.

    Pic from the ride.

    Last edited by michaelscott; 03-05-2013 at 09:15 PM.

  44. #344
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    michaelscot, I haven't been able to see your pics in either post.

  45. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    michaelscot, I haven't been able to see your pics in either post.
    Doh. So much for SkyDrive. I should have been using google anyways- hooks up to my phone and all. Pics here and on the previous page are all working now.

  46. #346
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    I like the black and orange theme. Nicely done.

    Also jealous of your riding conditions.

  47. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelscott View Post
    Finally got over the flu and took the new bike out for a ride.

    I've never done this particular trail before and it was super sandy- which ended up being somewhat of a mixed blessing because I really got to test the bike out in sub par conditions. I'm going to need many more rides to get everything dialed in since the brakes are still squealing like a banshee and I haven't found the right combination of seat/seat setting to keep my feet from going numb.

    Here is what I got out of the first ride:

    1) Absolutely no frame flex any where. I never realized how much my old steel frame/fork bent under my Herculean strength when I was mashing up a hill. The Jones just took it and said "Is that all you got wuss? Why don't you put some muscle into it?" I'm not 100% back to full strength but I was mashing as hard as I could up some sandy hills at a good grade and the frame really felt awesome.

    2) I really like the rear end of the bike. My old bike had a pretty long frame but I always felt I had to ride this careful line between mashing too hard and spinning the wheel or not getting enough power to get up. Sometimes I felt like I had to use interesting body English to get up more challenging hills. The Jones feels like I could mash as hard as I want and the traction would be there. There was no slipping or sliding and I made one sandy hill in particular that I was pretty sure I would of had to walk up on my old bike.

    3) The fat front felt really nice in the sand. I took some turns pretty tight and besides one slip up that I counter steered to save myself, the bike steered through all of it. I really like the "munching" sound that the fat front makes when it tackles the road. Riding with big ass tires on big ass wheels really makes me feel like I am cheating. It doesn't even feel like a "rigid" bike anymore.

    4) I don't know how I feel about the ride position yet. I do feel way higher up than on my old bike. It almost felt like when I had gone from 26 to 29. I'll get used to it soon I imagine. Just need to figure the seat out.

    Pic from the ride.

    think the larry is loud, give a nate a try. It is crunchtastic!
    Try this: HTFU

  48. #348
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    Yeah I thought about going with Nate. Jeff steered me towards the Big Fat Larry for So Cal riding conditions. At $150 a pop it is hard to experiment with the different fat tires. But so far so good.

  49. #349
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    We should start some comparisons between fat tires on the front of the Jones. I couldn't figure out and hated the Endomorph (years ago), the original Larry was great (though heavy?), and now I'm on the Knard 26x3.8. I like it well enough (though I can't quite get the bead to seat right all the way around). But I'm wondering how the BFL would be... I live and ride in the Northern CA East Bay region for what its worth.

  50. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding View Post
    and now I'm on the Knard 26x3.8. I like it well enough.....But I'm wondering how the BFL would be...
    Totally agree. In fact I've got my Knard 3.8 up for trade on the Fat Tire forum. Does anyone want to trade a low mileage Knard 3.8 120tpi for a BFL 120tpi? PM me if you are interested. Thanks!

  51. #351
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    Guess we need someone with experience on both tires to speak up and tell us what they think!

  52. #352
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    When I had a Larry, I thought that was too big and sluggish. Couldn't imagine what the BFL would feel like.

    Larry's traction was great, though. Never felt like I needed any more traction going through loose over hard, sand, and gravel. But if I were to try another fat tire, it would be the Nate.

  53. #353
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    Well, I've spent a year on the 45 North Husker Du, and I think it's the perfect fat trail tire. Light. Grippy. Rolls well. I guess some folks in the fat forum have had troubles with sharp sticks puncturing the tire, but I haven't gotten a flat in a year of riding. The Husker may not have the outside diameter of the BFL, so I'm guessing the front of the bike is a bit lower than on the BFL. My experience on the BFL is limited to one short ride, but the knobs make me wonder how the tire would work on slippery roots, which I have to factor in.

  54. #354
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    I only use the BFL in dry conditions - where it really rocks in my opinion- I run mine at about 7psi. I don't find it sluggish, but then I've been running a Nate for most of the winter.. A Nate is best for really muddy conditions. HUDU (ul)is also good, but for slightly less muddy conditions an rolls really well - I've not tried it yet in dry conditions. I love the 29er Knard too, more responsive and faster than the fat tyres, but as expected less Cush.

    I don't use my Larry much these days. I think the Endo is best just forgotten

  55. #355
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    Got a second ride in today. Brakes and seat are now dialed in and feel really good. I'm 190 pounds, bikes is 30.5, and I probably have ~10 pounds of gear on. 10 psi in the front has felt good for 2 rides so I am going to push it to 9.5 this weekend. I was running 25 PSI in the back but I was getting squirrely with speed so I think I might go back up to 26.

    A lot of riding in So Cal is straight up hard packed double wide trails for many miles- with a small single track as a reward. I could only ride for an hour before the flu recovery gassed me and I ended up not even getting to any single track. This weekend I've got plans to hit some good stuff in the area that I can get some fun riding in.

    pics from the ride:







    See that trail in the distance? That was where I ended up. The whole ride was 1,022 feet of climbing in 4.52 miles. I gassed out quite a few times and had to walk or rest.



    This is a typical So Cal trail. Lots of work and not very exciting. I actually made it up this ridge before gassing but it killed me for the rest of the ride.



    From the top



    That was the front side of the mountain. The loop I was going to do rode down the back side and then single tracked around. It was another 10 miles but I just didn't have it in me today. Even though it wasn't single tracking going down the way I came up I still had a blast. GPS thingy said I hit 30 mph on one stretch that was really open and I let go. That was when I started to feel the rear wheel really get sloppy. Front still felt great the whole time. It is going to take me a while to get used to pushing the bike as hard as it can go.

  56. #356
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    Cool pics, thanks. I added gears to my Jones when I moved to California. The new Shadow + derailleurs are so good I had no reason not to. I've got the flu too, but I hope to make it up a few climbs to see some waterfalls this weekend in Mendocino county.

  57. #357
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    I've been using the Bud tubless on a Rolling D rim.
    Lovin it.
    Rolls better than the Nate and sticks to the trail like shite to a blanket.

    (sorry about the crappy phone pic)


    20130307_165302 by singlespeedstu, on Flickr

    Better pics here.

    Corner Floatage. by singlespeedstu, on Flickr


    Steps by singlespeedstu, on Flickr

  58. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlespeedstu View Post
    I've been using the Bud tubless on a Rolling D rim.
    Lovin it.
    Rolls better than the Nate and sticks to the trail like shite to a blanket.
    damn and I thought nates on a marge were epic! That looks insanely plump!
    Try this: HTFU

  59. #359
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    How did you do the tubeless setup, Stu?

  60. #360
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    Gorilla Tape, bolt in Joes valve and a bit of experience in tublessing.

    Dead easy to do with the right technique.

  61. #361
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    "Tai"-Jones-image.jpg
    One of my favorite trails finally opened! It was a great day to try the Jones as a single speed for the first time. The trails were fairly dry and the temp was 60 degrees! Overall the bike rides beautifully SS. I definitely got some toe over lap with the EBB all the way forward. I'm going to have to decide between different gearing or taking a link out of the chain.

  62. #362
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    ppfeifer - you can also use a half link to fine tune the EBB position. Use user "bad mechanic"s method.

    (see post #12)
    Questions about KMC chains and half-links

    A little more expensive, but well-worth it, if that is needed. Mine is currently geared 32x21 with the EBB around 12 o-clock. I had it down low, but was getting too many pedal strikes.

    I just switched the gearing from 20T to 21T to accmmodate the porky Blunt 35 and Ardent 2.4 out back.

  63. #363
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    Stremf - thanks for the advice. I got it figured out after some tinkering and beer.

    FWIW, I was running 32x19 with a chain using a half link in it. Switching to a chain without a half link worked. Now the EBB is at the 7 to 8 O'clock position. I may put it to the 10 - 11 O'clock position if pedal strikes are an issue.

  64. #364
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    Good job!

    if I ever build up a geared twin to my black SS, the red diamond looks tempting!

    From the Jones Blog:

    "Tai"-Jones-5_red.jpg

  65. #365
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    I like that shot - such an adaptable bike. Who'd think the bike was as capable off road as it is from looking at that?

  66. #366
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    What length cranks are you guys using? It sounds like toe overlap and pedal strikes might be an issue with this bike.

  67. #367
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    170mm and have plenty of space for my toes. But my EBB joint is in the 12 o'clock position.

  68. #368
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    I had overlap issues with Knard/Rabbit Hole combo, size 10 1/2 shoes, and 170mm the cranks at the 4 O'clock position. I don't have issues with the EBB set between 5 to 12 O'clock.

  69. #369
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    I'm also on 170mm cranks, 44 shoes (10.5 US?) and EBB at 12 o'clock. No issues.

  70. #370
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    175mm cranks. Rabbit Hole/Knard. EBB at 11 o'clock position. Size 12 shoe. Get toverlap if my foot isn't planted right on platforms. Otherwise, no issue.

  71. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by fyrmd View Post
    What length cranks are you guys using? It sounds like toe overlap and pedal strikes might be an issue with this bike.
    I have run my bike with at both 12 and 6 on the EBB and haven't had any toe overlaps with 11shoes and Purgatory on Flow or Nate on Large marge. The 6 setting really makes the bike corner well but you do have to be more carefully with pedal placement and pedaling through rocky corners but like all things it just takes a few rides to get used to the change then you'll never notice.
    Try this: HTFU

  72. #372
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    170mm cranks, size 43 shoes, on clipless pedals, P35 rim with a 2.4 tire. Lotsa room with the EBB set at the 7 o'clock position when viewed from the non-drive side. As Rockcrusher has said, I got a few pedal strikes during the first ride or so but have now adapted.

  73. #373
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    Any issues with running the shorter cranks (170)? I have always used 175s.

  74. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by fyrmd View Post
    Any issues with running the shorter cranks (170)? I have always used 175s.
    None so far. I switched from a 175 which was on my previous bike too. Just raised the saddle a bit more.

  75. #375
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    It's race-able

    Over the weekend I joined a 50km XC race at the La Mesa Forest Reserve . It was 4 laps of a 12.5km loop, with a 3km fire road climb to start each lap, with the rest winding, tight, sometimes rooty/rumbly forest single track. Rung what I brung…stuck to 34x19 and swapped the tires out to Schwalbe Racing Ralph 2.4s. The bike performed like a champ. From standing up for the fireroad gradient, to low-rpm, high-torque grunters as some riders stalled or dabbed on the single track climbs, to twisty, dusty turns…it never lost composure, keeping up with the rest of the field. Had to ease up on the pace on the last lap to save my legs (not the bike's fault!), but in the end I finished 10th in my age group. First single speed overall, as far as I can recall.

    I'm already impressed with the package as it was, and to have it take good care of me in the heat of battle just increased the stoke factor exponentially.

    Pic that it did happen:

    "Tai"-Jones-agu-jones-711-1.jpg

  76. #376
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    Nice job, agu. I'll be doing some endurance events this summer. I've got to get a lighter wheel set up. The 2.4 Ardent does not feel good mashing uphill. I may spring for a RR 2.4.

  77. #377
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    I don't know if this constitutes a thread jack or not since this thread seems to be all over the place but I'm gonna ask anyway. What is the chainline supposed to be on the diamond frame? I'm building mine up with Race Face Deus 170 cranks, 32T plus bash guard, and I thought I wanted a 50 mm chainline but I'm getting contact between the chainring and stay. Do I need to go 51?

  78. #378
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    What position is the BB in? I assume there would be plenty of room, unless you have the BB rotated towards the rear of the bike...

  79. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding View Post
    unless you have the BB rotated towards the rear of the bike...
    That's exactly where the BB is positioned so maybe that's the problem. I'm just following the Bushnell installation and adjustment instructions which say to start with it all the way back then rotate forward to achieve proper tension.

    So is the 50mm chainline still the goal or should I move some spacers around on my crank to space it more like 51? Not sure that 1mm is really that big of a difference anyway.

  80. #380
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    So you are running as a SS then? When you rotate the BB forward to set the chain tension, do you still not have enough room? I wouldn't think you would need any spacers...

  81. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding View Post
    So you are running as a SS then? When you rotate the BB forward to set the chain tension, do you still not have enough room? I wouldn't think you would need any spacers...
    Yes, SS.

    I don't have my wheels yet (should arrive today) so I don't know what the final position will be. I just installed the EBB, BB cups and crank last night and I wasn't expecting any contact with the stays regardless of BB position. Is that unrealistic? This is my first experience with an EBB so I really don't know what to expect.

  82. #382
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    Don't worry about it until you have your wheels and are actually setting the chain tension. Until then, it doesn't matter. I suspect it won't be an issue for you.

  83. #383
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    My original setup was 1x10 with a 34T chainring and I was surprised by how close the chainring came to the chain stay. In fact, it was so close that I called Jeff to ask him about it. He explained that he designed the bike to have symmetrical chain stays and that most other designs do not. The drive side chain stay is normally designed to accommodate the crank and chainrings. I'm not saying that Jeff didn't take the crank and chainring into consideration while designing the bike, but he did prioritize symmetrical chain stays. Therefore, you may have to adjust your EBB so that the chainring does not touch the chain stay.

    Since this is your first EBB, here are a couple things to consider:
    1- Grease it. Big time. EBBs creak and groan when they aren't properly greased.
    2- Crank it down and check it from time to time. Don't strip the bolt but make sure the bolt is very tight. EBBs can loosen up over time and rotate slightly while riding.
    3- Set the EBB at the 12 O'clock or 6 O'clock position. I am running mine single speed now and set the EBB near the 6 O'clock position. Several people have commented on increased pedal strikes with the EBB at the lower position and prefer 12 O'clock. The 12 O'clock position will decrease your likelihood for pedal strikes but you'll need to raise your seat. I already feel "on top" of my Jones and don't want to sit much higher. Finally, toe overlap can be an issue if the EBB is between the 2 to 5 O'clock positions depending on your front tire configuration.

    Having ridden several other EBBs, the Bushnell is very nice. I'm really happy with it. It's heavier than other single speed tensioning options but it is easier to adjust. Depending on your gearing and EBB positioning, you may need to get a half link for your chain to prevent toe overlap.

    Hope this helps. Good luck.

  84. #384
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    I'll add in that at least on my diamond there is some play in the EBB where you can adjust it towards the drive side without it coming out of the BB shell. This should be all the wiggle room you need.

    I also second the grease. If you live in dusty dry just apply grease on surfaces that touch (cams and body and expansion wedge). if you conditions are wet and gravelly grease that m-fer full. Pump it in through a hole and plug the rest until it weeps grease. That'll do it.
    Try this: HTFU

  85. #385
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    if it helps: i have been riding my bushnell ti jones for several years in very wet, crappy conditions. every 18 months or so i take it apart and regrease all the contact surfaces. i use ti prep as it is a ti frame. i also clean the threads of the expanding bolt and apply PURPLE loctite and torque it to 9.5nm...it never comes loose and it stays creak free the whole time.
    http://www.bushnelltandems.com/eccinstructions.pdf

  86. #386
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    last night i took the crank off, moved a spindle spacer from the non-drive side to the drive side, then put it back together and that's all it took to get my chainring off the stay. it was only about a 1mm spacer but fortunately that's all it took. I'm not saying i've got gobs of clearance but i'm not getting contact with the stay while the EBB is in the 9 o'clock position viewed from the drive side. I certainly don't expect to leave it in that position since 1)I'm running SS and will need to tension the chain and 2)BB shell flex could cause the chainring to grind into the stay, but it's good to know that the chainring can clear the stay in any position now.

    ppfeifer - thanks for the EBB tips. i did grease the hell out of it and will take your advice on checking and re-tightening.

    I'm pleased with how light the "feather light" Bushnell EBB is. I was expecting something much heavier.

  87. #387
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    I was a bit leery of the EBB, as there was no lip on either side to seat the EBB. I thought it was going to be slip-city, especially with the gob of grease it called for. I torqued to spec and rode. Well, after several weeks, I've noticed zero slips. It's had zero issues for me, to date.

    I initially had it set at 6 o'clock. But was getting too many pedal strikes. I've now got it at 12 o'clock or so, and love it so far. I don't get that high over the bike feeling, but I'm kind of oblivious to all of that anyway. I'm just happy my feet are staying clicked in and my cranks aren't getting any more thrashed.

  88. #388
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    Anyone used a remote dropper post on their Jones? Which brand? I'm concerned that the curve in the seat tube might complicate things.

  89. #389
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    Just re-entering thread to state that after two years on the diamond truss combination, I still love the bike and it continues to rip.

    It pushes my lizard brain pleasure button pretty much every ride. No regrets and no plans to replace it. I have not ridden a single bike set up in one way for this long.....well, ever.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  90. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelscott View Post
    Anyone used a remote dropper post on their Jones? Which brand? I'm concerned that the curve in the seat tube might complicate things.
    Since the seat tube is 27.2 there aren't very many options. But I believe most of us are using the Gravity Dropper posts. It's mechanical, and comes in different configurations. I have no complaints about mine. I use it every ride.

  91. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding View Post
    Since the seat tube is 27.2 there aren't very many options. But I believe most of us are using the Gravity Dropper posts. It's mechanical, and comes in different configurations. I have no complaints about mine. I use it every ride.
    That is exactly the one I was thinking about getting. Which flavor do you have?

  92. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelscott View Post
    That is exactly the one I was thinking about getting. Which flavor do you have?
    I have the newest version with 1" and 3" drop. Gravity Dropper Turbo LP | GravityDropper

  93. #393
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    Just throwing this out (hope this is ok to post here)--If any of you with a red (or green) unicrown fork want to swap for a black, let me know. My frame's black, but I've always liked mis-matched forks. Mine is in prestine shape, as I bought it last Jan.

  94. #394
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    i wasnt quite sure where to put this, but this seems as good a thread as any...

    been messing around with a krampus for a while. wondered what it would be like to throw a Knard on a fat rim on the front of my jones - it is the 135mm spacing...ive had a 29er Uma snow rim for a looooong time and never really got much use out of it...there is no comparison to the Rabbit Hole rim, buuuuut, this might just let me see how it works out...

    Last edited by dRjOn; 05-01-2013 at 09:47 AM. Reason: clarity

  95. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by dRjOn View Post
    been messing around with a krampus for a while. wondered what it would be like to throw a Knard on a fat rim on the front of my jones - it is the 135mm spacing...ive had a 29er Uma snow rim for a looooong time and never really got much use out of it...there is no cmparison to the Rabbit Hole rim, buuuuut, this might just let me see how it works out...
    Why isn't it a good comparison of the rims? If you have been using a Fat front on the Jones, then I would be interested in hearing how you like going down in size to the Knard.

    I personally bought a new wheel from Jeff, and I think it's just more wheel than I need. I think I should have probably gotten the RH & Knard combo instead...

  96. #396
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    what i meant was that the Rabbit Hole is a better rim than the Uma. It has box section edges which make it much stiffer. the particular Uma i have is a pretty basic singlewall, pinned, rim. If i end up keeping this, i will go for a Rabbit Hole.

    I have ridden this bike with a Nate on the front....its a lot of fun, but i think the 29+ will be better.

  97. #397
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    The jury is still out with me on Rabbit Hole vs. full fat, at least on my local trails. I miss the rough trail rollover of the full fat a bit now that I've gone to the RH. And sections of my local trails are pretty rough. I haven't noticed a ton of advantages when climbing with the RH. I still find myself walking up the same sections. But my fat wheel is not too much heavier than the RH/Knard combo. Steering is quicker with the RH vs. the fat. But that has its advantages and disadvantages. I've been on the Rabbit Hole for about 3 months now. I'm going to switch back to my fat wheel soon to see how the bike feels going back to fat front. In my head, I don't think the differences are so dramatic as to have a definitive preference. However, I've only stuck to my local trails. And I'm not such an experienced rider to fuss about nuances. Now, the difference could be seriously dramatic if one went from a 80-100mm rim with a 1500+gram fat tire down the the RH/Knard.

    Essentially, drjon, I'd be interested in hearing what you think.

  98. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    Essentially, drjon, I'd be interested in hearing what you think.
    And I'm interested in drjon and your continued feedback as well. Buying new wheels from Jeff is expensive, so I would like to get more info before I blow a bunch more money. Currently my new wheel is 100mm rim with 26" Knard tire...

  99. #399
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    before i get a ride in on this set up, i know without any doubt that if there was a 29+ nate it would never leave the front of this bike.

    :-)~

    will get some updates as soon as ive got some time on it...

  100. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by dRjOn View Post
    ...if there was a 29+ nate...
    Yes, I would love to see a Nate version in 29+. The Knard's tread is a bit tame for me. It's worked well for me so far. Comparing it to full fat, I much prefer it, but it's probably just due to my riding style. I never got along with the slow steering full fat and the hefty weight. Knard feels much better. It's definitely less cush than full fat, but it hasn't slowed me down. If any of you are in N. Utah, I'd be happy to lend it out. My set up is P35 and Knard. (No RH available at the time of build).

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